Yeah I think so.
Codependents can’t win. We are both blamed for the problems of our spouses and reviled for trying to fix them, so it’s just one big resentment-fest in all directions.
And the added pressure that society places on us when we’re married (or to get married in the first place) is a layer that we just don’t need.
Hold your spouse together.
Hold the family together.
Hold society together.
The result: a shell of a human being who has completely neglected him or herself.
Yes, this! I also didn't identify as codependent for a long time because it is often described as if the partner fixing everything is glad to fix it or volunteers to fix it. I was never rushing to fix things or even thought it was my responsibility. I would always communicate with asking. However where I went wrong is when they would refuse to do their share I would begrudgingly do it anyways because I knew our household or myself would suffer consequences without it being done.. I never knew I had the option to have a power move like withholding something from them or being mean I always thought you weren't allowed to do those things. Nonetheless..this is codependency because I didn't make demands or refuse to do things.
The power move isn’t so much being mean as it is having clean boundaries and be willing to enforce them.
It seems mean to us and others to say no and enforce boundaries because those around us aren’t used to it.
I am on this kick of working on boundaries and let me tell you it is LONELY with a capital L. I had to put my foot down about my stbxh using my credit card, sharing receipts with me about shared expenses and dealing with our respective families and he is not happy. He throws these tantrums and then doesn’t speak to me for days and it feels like I’m jumping off a cliff of abandonment. But you know what…he stopped spending on my card and is sending receipts and his mother is leaving me alone.
Al Anon literature has excellent tools on healing from codependency.
What about things when other people are affected by their non-action. Pretty much everything I asked for had to do with taking care of the kids. hey I need you to take this kid to their soccer practice. Or make the kids dinner. A lot of the advice is to just stop doing the things for the spouse but that doesn't work with kids. If they refuse to do these things the kids are the ones that pay the consequences. What sort of consequence are you supposed to enforce.
Yeah that’s a tough spot to be in. I don’t have kids, but maybe someone here with kids can weigh in more insightfully. But maybe the boundary is that on the days you need to shuttle the kids to something, you don’t have to do anything to take care of the grown ups, like cooking or paying bills.
My stbxh is a master at getting me by 1000 tiny cuts. He is insanely controlling about everything that happens in the house, so he would watch me cook and take the knife out of my hand if he didn’t like how I was cutting veggies. Or he would inspect the trash if I cleaned out the fridge to make sure I didn’t throw away a drop of anything that could be used. These were small things that have seemingly little consequence, but I became alarmed when I started to feel like I couldn’t cut veggies properly when he wasn’t even around. Or I would start taking out the trash more frequently so I could avoid his weird inspections.
Because you can find one area where you took one for the team hardly means you’re a codependent. This is the type of one off, flawed logic that has every woman convinced she was married to a narcissist.
Withholding something or being mean for taking care of the household would be an unhealthy way of dealing with the situation. Explaining that you shouldn’t have to do everything to your spouse and saying you feel like a slave and taken advantage of would be the better way of handling it.
Every healthy marriage has a person who has compromised and has over contributed in an area that they don’t enjoy but did it for the sake of everyone in the household and mainly because they knew if they didn’t, their spouse wouldn’t anyway. They feel resentful at times but if they’re truly being honest with themselves and trying to see the best in their spouse they will see that there are areas where their spouse over contributes.
I’m sure if your husband were here he would have examples where he was a codependent too. Having an example or even a couple or few doesn’t necessarily make you a codependent.
Ha it wasn't just one small area. I was literally worked to death. I worked all night after my job and then on the weekends to taking care of everything running around like a maniac. I managed all finances and paid off all of our debt. I got promotions and almost doubled my salary while he took demotions. I saved his sons life and had to provide round the clock care for 6 months after 5 brain surgeries and had to get up in the middle of the night to do it all. He refused to do any of it.
Codependency in the context of marriage and divorce refers to a dysfunctional relationship dynamic where one or both partners excessively rely on each other for approval, validation, and a sense of identity. This often leads to unhealthy behaviors such as enabling, controlling, or sacrificing one's own needs and boundaries for the sake of the relationship.
In divorce, codependency may manifest as difficulty separating from the partner, fear of being alone, or feeling unable to function independently. It can complicate the divorce process and hinder individuals from establishing healthy boundaries and moving forward with their lives.
10 major signs of codependency
1. Excessive caretaking
2. Difficulty setting boundaries
3. Low self-esteem
4. Fear of conflict
5. Control issues
6. Lack of personal hobbies or interests
7. Emotional repression
8. Unbalanced power dynamic
9. Difficulty making decisions
10. Fear of abandonment
Again this is a two way street in my opinion. Both partners need to be able to see where their flaws are and work on themselves without the reliance of the person.
Obviously this doesn’t apply to all situations. This is more for “how did our happy marriage crumble so quickly”
All 10 of the major signs you posted are me. I will be officially divorced in 2 months. I will be working on having the awareness to recognize these qualities about myself when I start dating again.
All 10 of them used to be me.. I think I’m minimal on a lot of these which is how I know I am healing. The biggest thing for me is “people are allowed to be themselves” no matter how bad I think their behaviors are. My job is to figure out what I need, say it clearly. Communicate the boundary and watch…
Also, Im loving my alone time now, meeting new people, diving back into my creativity..
You’ll get there. I think codependents need to REMOVE the thought of another relationship out of their minds otherwise their growth will be for the possibility of a relationship rather than for themselves
I think if there is not some level of codependency, you are not doing marriage right. If we are all living our own life over 20 years without sacrifice for the other, or relying on the other....what are we doing? It's one of those terms I don't like, because it mixes what I feel is the all in of a marriage with people who stay in abusive situations. And they are not the same. What keeps marriages together if not codependency. It mostly sucks after decades. You stay out of loyalty, and a long term vision...And you know kids and family.
That's why divorce is so crushing, it's an attack on your personally. And often comes with the breakdown of a family.
After all this I have lost all value in marriage, if not for life. I would have lived it differently. What is the point, if not all in. Why not just date, and leave when the tables turn. Since divorce has become so common especially. It has no value, only consequences.
I kind of get what you are saying here.. but I think you may have missed the point of codependency. What you are describing is sacrifice from a place of love and respect. Codependents sacrifice but out of fear of loss of love.. that’s not only unhealthy, it’s sinful..
What keeps marriages is interdependency.. our ability or each feel and be whole, have a wholesome life separate from our partners and still “want” and “desire” to depend on each other to meet our needs..
>Codependents sacrifice but out of fear of loss of love.. that’s not only unhealthy, it’s sinful
Curious what makes that "sinful" to you, I've never heard anybody use that phrase in this respect.
Mind you I’m speaking as a codependent. The moment I place someone else above God in my life.. as an idol.. that’s a sin. It’s also a behavior rooted in “fear”, also a sin.
Exodus 20:3 (NIV): "You shall have no other gods before me."
In codependency, I place my partner on a pedestal in my life to the point where there is an unhealthy dependency on them that restricts your ability to live freely. They become what you need to be happy rather than God being that to me.
healing codependency has been possible through breaking down the pedestal and realigning my identity back to God not man. I actually think it’s also what led to my divorce. I was no longer glorifying him.
I agree with you completely. Absolutely completely!!.. the things of God are not sensible at all.. they aren’t even physical.. so yes.. you are right 💯
Ouch! This hurt. I did leave this situation, but so much of this rings true for our ex relationship. I know I let things get to the point they ended up at, and I let the power dynamic shift too far. I let go of all the things I enjoyed (I did find some new things, to be fair). Boundaries were just ultimatums to him, even when he pushed me so far past the point of being disrespected and and criticized and pressured me into things I was so so uncomfortable with. I give myself credit and say I am leaving better off than I came into the relationship, but that is all due to a lot of very hard work on my part, but then again so is he.
My x love bombed me and wasn’t honest about who he was. Our main fights were about his “jokes” or his toxic family and friends.
I do have a tendency to over care for people, it’s just my nature. I’m trying my best to not do so and just worry about me.
I think I was very codependent and I relied on my x to make me happy, he didn’t want to.
Yupp! And I think to heal is to be gracious to ourselves and take radical respectability for our own dishonesty (unconcious) and need to control others and situations in order to feel safe
I think codependency and a lack of self respect/worth can cause a dip in desire, grit, tenacity, perseverance to do what needs to be done.. which then leads to not putting in the work to get a job start a business, grind. Etc etc
Oh yes. So much. But also it's very much a dance of two people so if one person changes their side of the dance (for the better or for the worse) the other one has to compensate somehow. Or not and then it starts falling apart
I agree to an extent. My STBXW was clearly codependent and obsessed with me in the first few years. But then I got a bit of that myself and became codependent on her too. Thing is she got detached a while back from me and I guess I just kept going as we'd nearly been together 10 years and felt maybe marriages were like that? Because of the time (with kid, house etc). I didn't really question the shift, we stopped communicating on the difficult stuff (divisions of responsibility etc) or making efforts with eachother and now here I am 'catching up' after suffering from cheating, rejection, betrayal and just sad about it all.
I wish I could have detected the codependency red flags in the early years, because it almost seemed too good to be true. How could she have been into almost everything I liked? How she'd sit and watch me play videogames in the evening?
I dunno, feels like I've partially lived a lie. I filed in January. You live and learn.
I definitely saw a lot of character flaws in my ex, but like a lot of women, I thought I could "help" him and that he would be a good husband/father when the time came. Spoiler alert: that didn't happen.
I think it's more the cause of many divorces that take too long to happen because are codependent and can't figure out how to care for their children, work or pay their bills without "help".
You are speaking of codependency being what prevents divorces from happening sooner. I’m in the what came first.. the chicken or the egg. If both partners are interdependent, then things should work out fine.. for the most part
Really good point. I sense there is a lot of codependency in my marriage. Hard to tell if she sees it or not. On my end, I *think* what came first was a clear establishment of roles with her being the controlling one.
This took many forms, but was never so blatant that it appeared as anything but "Highly capable, high expectations spouse". Friends would sometimes joke about it. I always thought it simply mirrored what we see on TV quite a bit.
Very quickly sex/intimacy was part of this equation, and again controlled by her (i.e. sexless marriage). There is a role trauma plays here, but it's far too complex for me to get into.
At this point, I feel like I'd be fine on my own. It's her that seems shaken if I bring it up. It's hard to tell if she is scared that she won't find someone else that will put up with that, or if it's something else.
Can I make a suggestion.. it seems both of you are codependent.. one of the quickest and easiest ways to break the cycle and get back to unity is boundary setting on your part, moreso than here since you are more aware of what’s playing in the background.. have you shared these thoughts with her yet?
We did therapy for 20 years. We knew what we there for. Serious issues with intimacy. My wife has a traumatic past, and it surfaced early in our relationship . Manifested basically as no adult intimacy of any kind. Even talking about that was quickly shut down.
Anyhow, as soon as it was mentioned in sessions that she had a trauma background, she was handled with kid gloves (by almost every therapist we saw) and essentially allowed to drive the train.
I supported this healing, but nothing came of it because she was already avoidant and dismissive.
Now, I was not only suffering myself due to her avoidance of the subject, but hamstrung by therapists who supported the no talking about it.
And here I am...still. walking on eggshells. Resentful. Broken.
But the idea of boundary setting is interesting. I did bring that up once. Like I have boundaries for intimacy in my life in relation to a marriage. I wasn't sure if I was using the term right as boundaries seem to more often relate to keeping things out than in, but I went with it and she called me out for using the word wrong.
In any case it was another failed attempt that merely landed as an ultimatum. Everything is an ultimatum, everything is pressure. I always make her her out to be a bitch. So I no longer confront. Shitty plan, I know. But if you continue to push stiff under the rug, you never have to deal with them. :/
Perhaps codependency pushes her to make me feel like I'm crazy about my needs in some weird way to keep me around.
It's unsettling.
Terribly sorry. Relationships are TOUGH!!!
It is important to handle with kids gloves for a bit.. otherwise you actually worsen the trauma.. I’ve been there. It must be. Gradual process.. not for the faint of heart.
I don't know where I'm at honestly. I've been doing this for 23 years. I'm not sure I can hang on much longer. I have one shot at this life and there seems to be no winning outside of divorce.
Yeah I see it a lot in my failed relationship. I also see that it feels like the dynamics changed over time. She was more anxious at first then it switched. Money was a big issue the last few years and I became a shell of myself. I escaped getting high and had co dependent behaviors. She made a friend which normally we were always together. Things just spiraled from there. I do believe a separation would help alot but she's so in love with this person that the only hope is that over time she begins to miss me and see that it was more external issues than contributed to our failed relationship and not her and I.
One of the major reasons I’m separated from my husband is his codependency. And he presented NONE of those warning signs. I would have never guessed he was that way until well into our relationship (took about two years until it started showing)
I can be a caretaker and have had difficulty setting boundaries. I wouldn’t consider myself codependent though. But for the first portion of my relationship, he was very independent, confident and supportive. Then once we had a kid he because really insecure, never wanted me to do anything, very controlling, dismissive, a lot of emotional immaturity in general, manipulative about sex and disrespectful about boundaries. My therapist thinks he’s border-lining being a narcissist. But definitely none of the signs you listed about the first dates was there at all. He was a delight.
That was a foundational problem in my marriage as well.
I know I was too dependent on her, there was definitely some "I don't want to be alone, I'm glad I found someone" and I think there was something of that on her side as well.
As far as I can know/assume she hates being alone, the only time she was not in a relationship in the time I knew her (including before our relationship, as friends) was when the guy before me dumped her, not the other way around.
I don't know about the earlier ones but three's out of five or so is a decent sample size.
Vice versa she was also dependent on me I think (or just a/her partner) as well, to a degree. She only ended our relationship when she had the next one lined up, so she wouldn't be alone, I guess.
Pretty much 1-10 were true for me, to various degrees. 4 only a little, 6 and 9 more so.
Most of them for her as well imho (1,5,6,9 not so much, but 2 and 10 **very** much so imo, also 7 I think).
She'd been in multiple relationships, she was my first and then straight into 10+ years and marriage, so it makes sense that I had more "unresolved issues" than her.
I've since realized and acknowledged this whole issue and at this point I think I would not check nearly as many marks.
The pain, the experience of the separation, the divorce and all that "helped" me realize and work on a lot of stuff.
I'd like to believe that at least in the beginning, in the early years there was real, actual love as well, in addition to this co-dependency. At least it felt like it and even looking back on it now I think - and I choose to believe - that was the case.
I'm glad for the time we had, the good times, only wish I knew then what I know now, things might have turned out differently.
Future relationships should turn out different, for one because I'm not gonna be as invested anymore, not gonna marry again, not gonna have children with another woman. And I'll try very much not to fall into the same trap/behavior again.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I can feel the pain as I too am of the same sentiment. I won’t be dating or marrying again. I left myself too vulnerable in my most recent relationship. The most unprotected I have ever been and it smacked me right across the face. I’ll stick to just dating me.
I am so codependent. At least I was. With him.
It was the perfect storm. The chronically ill, self-destructive man meets the bleeding heart woman with deep-rooted childhood abandonment wounds.
Never again
Ok so what I don't get here is...
- is it one, some or all of these that classify someone as codependent?
- both me and my ex could identify with at least one of these, what does that make us?
No not necessarily. We all have a little codependency within us. It more of the balance and unhealthy state of the person and the relationship that makes it a problem
Ok, so with my ex for example, she told me that she was afraid of ending up alone. I get the impression she'd rather be in a relationship than not
Although there's a little of that worry in all of us, surely we should spend time working on our own self to make sure the next relationship is better?
We should, but not because we want our next relationship to be better but because we want to be better.. everything else benefits from it. The problem though is that I believe a lot of these wounds are best healed within a relationship
Most of our traumas happen in relationships.. be it romantic or not.. and can be healed in relationships.. You can heal only to the ability that singleness allows you to heal.. but those triggers will likely return when you get into another relationship and then the relationship work begins…
That's an interesting perspective thanks. However then you're potentially healing at the expense of another person's time and potential feelings too?
For example last year I dated a really lovely lady for a few months, then I realised I wasn't really ready to commit so ended things with her. I felt pretty crap about that. (Luckily we have remained friends)
Yeah I think so. Codependents can’t win. We are both blamed for the problems of our spouses and reviled for trying to fix them, so it’s just one big resentment-fest in all directions. And the added pressure that society places on us when we’re married (or to get married in the first place) is a layer that we just don’t need. Hold your spouse together. Hold the family together. Hold society together. The result: a shell of a human being who has completely neglected him or herself.
Just @ me next time damn
Absolutely well said
THIS 🎉🎉🎉
Yes, this! I also didn't identify as codependent for a long time because it is often described as if the partner fixing everything is glad to fix it or volunteers to fix it. I was never rushing to fix things or even thought it was my responsibility. I would always communicate with asking. However where I went wrong is when they would refuse to do their share I would begrudgingly do it anyways because I knew our household or myself would suffer consequences without it being done.. I never knew I had the option to have a power move like withholding something from them or being mean I always thought you weren't allowed to do those things. Nonetheless..this is codependency because I didn't make demands or refuse to do things.
The power move isn’t so much being mean as it is having clean boundaries and be willing to enforce them. It seems mean to us and others to say no and enforce boundaries because those around us aren’t used to it. I am on this kick of working on boundaries and let me tell you it is LONELY with a capital L. I had to put my foot down about my stbxh using my credit card, sharing receipts with me about shared expenses and dealing with our respective families and he is not happy. He throws these tantrums and then doesn’t speak to me for days and it feels like I’m jumping off a cliff of abandonment. But you know what…he stopped spending on my card and is sending receipts and his mother is leaving me alone. Al Anon literature has excellent tools on healing from codependency.
What about things when other people are affected by their non-action. Pretty much everything I asked for had to do with taking care of the kids. hey I need you to take this kid to their soccer practice. Or make the kids dinner. A lot of the advice is to just stop doing the things for the spouse but that doesn't work with kids. If they refuse to do these things the kids are the ones that pay the consequences. What sort of consequence are you supposed to enforce.
Yeah that’s a tough spot to be in. I don’t have kids, but maybe someone here with kids can weigh in more insightfully. But maybe the boundary is that on the days you need to shuttle the kids to something, you don’t have to do anything to take care of the grown ups, like cooking or paying bills. My stbxh is a master at getting me by 1000 tiny cuts. He is insanely controlling about everything that happens in the house, so he would watch me cook and take the knife out of my hand if he didn’t like how I was cutting veggies. Or he would inspect the trash if I cleaned out the fridge to make sure I didn’t throw away a drop of anything that could be used. These were small things that have seemingly little consequence, but I became alarmed when I started to feel like I couldn’t cut veggies properly when he wasn’t even around. Or I would start taking out the trash more frequently so I could avoid his weird inspections.
Because you can find one area where you took one for the team hardly means you’re a codependent. This is the type of one off, flawed logic that has every woman convinced she was married to a narcissist. Withholding something or being mean for taking care of the household would be an unhealthy way of dealing with the situation. Explaining that you shouldn’t have to do everything to your spouse and saying you feel like a slave and taken advantage of would be the better way of handling it. Every healthy marriage has a person who has compromised and has over contributed in an area that they don’t enjoy but did it for the sake of everyone in the household and mainly because they knew if they didn’t, their spouse wouldn’t anyway. They feel resentful at times but if they’re truly being honest with themselves and trying to see the best in their spouse they will see that there are areas where their spouse over contributes. I’m sure if your husband were here he would have examples where he was a codependent too. Having an example or even a couple or few doesn’t necessarily make you a codependent.
Ha it wasn't just one small area. I was literally worked to death. I worked all night after my job and then on the weekends to taking care of everything running around like a maniac. I managed all finances and paid off all of our debt. I got promotions and almost doubled my salary while he took demotions. I saved his sons life and had to provide round the clock care for 6 months after 5 brain surgeries and had to get up in the middle of the night to do it all. He refused to do any of it.
I'm not sure. What do you think....?
Posted
that was a codependency joke...
I caught it!! I really did. I didn’t want to assume I was correct in my assessment
🤣
🤦🏽♀️
I think codependency is part of a toxic relationship period but not always the sole root of the problem
It’s definitely not the “root cause”.. but it is the symptom we all see
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The cause of codependency is the root cause not codependency itself is all I wan trying to say
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Thank you for the succinct elaboration. We are all learners in this thing called life
Can you elaborate?
Codependency in the context of marriage and divorce refers to a dysfunctional relationship dynamic where one or both partners excessively rely on each other for approval, validation, and a sense of identity. This often leads to unhealthy behaviors such as enabling, controlling, or sacrificing one's own needs and boundaries for the sake of the relationship. In divorce, codependency may manifest as difficulty separating from the partner, fear of being alone, or feeling unable to function independently. It can complicate the divorce process and hinder individuals from establishing healthy boundaries and moving forward with their lives. 10 major signs of codependency 1. Excessive caretaking 2. Difficulty setting boundaries 3. Low self-esteem 4. Fear of conflict 5. Control issues 6. Lack of personal hobbies or interests 7. Emotional repression 8. Unbalanced power dynamic 9. Difficulty making decisions 10. Fear of abandonment
Again this is a two way street in my opinion. Both partners need to be able to see where their flaws are and work on themselves without the reliance of the person. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all situations. This is more for “how did our happy marriage crumble so quickly”
All 10 of the major signs you posted are me. I will be officially divorced in 2 months. I will be working on having the awareness to recognize these qualities about myself when I start dating again.
All 10 of them used to be me.. I think I’m minimal on a lot of these which is how I know I am healing. The biggest thing for me is “people are allowed to be themselves” no matter how bad I think their behaviors are. My job is to figure out what I need, say it clearly. Communicate the boundary and watch… Also, Im loving my alone time now, meeting new people, diving back into my creativity.. You’ll get there. I think codependents need to REMOVE the thought of another relationship out of their minds otherwise their growth will be for the possibility of a relationship rather than for themselves
You inspire me to get get to this stage
Betrayal Trauma is often mistaken for codependency, making the situation even worse for the betrayed.
I think if there is not some level of codependency, you are not doing marriage right. If we are all living our own life over 20 years without sacrifice for the other, or relying on the other....what are we doing? It's one of those terms I don't like, because it mixes what I feel is the all in of a marriage with people who stay in abusive situations. And they are not the same. What keeps marriages together if not codependency. It mostly sucks after decades. You stay out of loyalty, and a long term vision...And you know kids and family. That's why divorce is so crushing, it's an attack on your personally. And often comes with the breakdown of a family. After all this I have lost all value in marriage, if not for life. I would have lived it differently. What is the point, if not all in. Why not just date, and leave when the tables turn. Since divorce has become so common especially. It has no value, only consequences.
I kind of get what you are saying here.. but I think you may have missed the point of codependency. What you are describing is sacrifice from a place of love and respect. Codependents sacrifice but out of fear of loss of love.. that’s not only unhealthy, it’s sinful.. What keeps marriages is interdependency.. our ability or each feel and be whole, have a wholesome life separate from our partners and still “want” and “desire” to depend on each other to meet our needs..
>Codependents sacrifice but out of fear of loss of love.. that’s not only unhealthy, it’s sinful Curious what makes that "sinful" to you, I've never heard anybody use that phrase in this respect.
Mind you I’m speaking as a codependent. The moment I place someone else above God in my life.. as an idol.. that’s a sin. It’s also a behavior rooted in “fear”, also a sin. Exodus 20:3 (NIV): "You shall have no other gods before me." In codependency, I place my partner on a pedestal in my life to the point where there is an unhealthy dependency on them that restricts your ability to live freely. They become what you need to be happy rather than God being that to me. healing codependency has been possible through breaking down the pedestal and realigning my identity back to God not man. I actually think it’s also what led to my divorce. I was no longer glorifying him.
Everything you are saying sounded so sensible until you brought God into it
I agree with you completely. Absolutely completely!!.. the things of God are not sensible at all.. they aren’t even physical.. so yes.. you are right 💯
Ouch! This hurt. I did leave this situation, but so much of this rings true for our ex relationship. I know I let things get to the point they ended up at, and I let the power dynamic shift too far. I let go of all the things I enjoyed (I did find some new things, to be fair). Boundaries were just ultimatums to him, even when he pushed me so far past the point of being disrespected and and criticized and pressured me into things I was so so uncomfortable with. I give myself credit and say I am leaving better off than I came into the relationship, but that is all due to a lot of very hard work on my part, but then again so is he.
That’s amazing..
My x love bombed me and wasn’t honest about who he was. Our main fights were about his “jokes” or his toxic family and friends. I do have a tendency to over care for people, it’s just my nature. I’m trying my best to not do so and just worry about me. I think I was very codependent and I relied on my x to make me happy, he didn’t want to.
Yupp! And I think to heal is to be gracious to ourselves and take radical respectability for our own dishonesty (unconcious) and need to control others and situations in order to feel safe
That’s part of it but I usually see the cause of divorces as a huge lack of sex or money, or both.
I think codependency and a lack of self respect/worth can cause a dip in desire, grit, tenacity, perseverance to do what needs to be done.. which then leads to not putting in the work to get a job start a business, grind. Etc etc
That’s a fair observation too that I agree with.
Or resentment
Resentment isn’t a cause, it’s a symptom of something else.
Oh yes. So much. But also it's very much a dance of two people so if one person changes their side of the dance (for the better or for the worse) the other one has to compensate somehow. Or not and then it starts falling apart
I agree to an extent. My STBXW was clearly codependent and obsessed with me in the first few years. But then I got a bit of that myself and became codependent on her too. Thing is she got detached a while back from me and I guess I just kept going as we'd nearly been together 10 years and felt maybe marriages were like that? Because of the time (with kid, house etc). I didn't really question the shift, we stopped communicating on the difficult stuff (divisions of responsibility etc) or making efforts with eachother and now here I am 'catching up' after suffering from cheating, rejection, betrayal and just sad about it all. I wish I could have detected the codependency red flags in the early years, because it almost seemed too good to be true. How could she have been into almost everything I liked? How she'd sit and watch me play videogames in the evening? I dunno, feels like I've partially lived a lie. I filed in January. You live and learn.
I think you mean "unhealed trauma," of which codependency is one manifestation.
Explain
To you? No.
Agree! Thats more correct for sure
Facing Codependence by Pia Melody is hitting me hard. A must read for every adult, especially people who are planning to be parents.
Someone has been to therapy or listening to Kenny Weiss. BTW all truth unless you lie to yourself lol
I definitely saw a lot of character flaws in my ex, but like a lot of women, I thought I could "help" him and that he would be a good husband/father when the time came. Spoiler alert: that didn't happen.
I think it's more the cause of many divorces that take too long to happen because are codependent and can't figure out how to care for their children, work or pay their bills without "help".
You are speaking of codependency being what prevents divorces from happening sooner. I’m in the what came first.. the chicken or the egg. If both partners are interdependent, then things should work out fine.. for the most part
Really good point. I sense there is a lot of codependency in my marriage. Hard to tell if she sees it or not. On my end, I *think* what came first was a clear establishment of roles with her being the controlling one. This took many forms, but was never so blatant that it appeared as anything but "Highly capable, high expectations spouse". Friends would sometimes joke about it. I always thought it simply mirrored what we see on TV quite a bit. Very quickly sex/intimacy was part of this equation, and again controlled by her (i.e. sexless marriage). There is a role trauma plays here, but it's far too complex for me to get into. At this point, I feel like I'd be fine on my own. It's her that seems shaken if I bring it up. It's hard to tell if she is scared that she won't find someone else that will put up with that, or if it's something else.
Can I make a suggestion.. it seems both of you are codependent.. one of the quickest and easiest ways to break the cycle and get back to unity is boundary setting on your part, moreso than here since you are more aware of what’s playing in the background.. have you shared these thoughts with her yet?
We did therapy for 20 years. We knew what we there for. Serious issues with intimacy. My wife has a traumatic past, and it surfaced early in our relationship . Manifested basically as no adult intimacy of any kind. Even talking about that was quickly shut down. Anyhow, as soon as it was mentioned in sessions that she had a trauma background, she was handled with kid gloves (by almost every therapist we saw) and essentially allowed to drive the train. I supported this healing, but nothing came of it because she was already avoidant and dismissive. Now, I was not only suffering myself due to her avoidance of the subject, but hamstrung by therapists who supported the no talking about it. And here I am...still. walking on eggshells. Resentful. Broken. But the idea of boundary setting is interesting. I did bring that up once. Like I have boundaries for intimacy in my life in relation to a marriage. I wasn't sure if I was using the term right as boundaries seem to more often relate to keeping things out than in, but I went with it and she called me out for using the word wrong. In any case it was another failed attempt that merely landed as an ultimatum. Everything is an ultimatum, everything is pressure. I always make her her out to be a bitch. So I no longer confront. Shitty plan, I know. But if you continue to push stiff under the rug, you never have to deal with them. :/ Perhaps codependency pushes her to make me feel like I'm crazy about my needs in some weird way to keep me around. It's unsettling.
Terribly sorry. Relationships are TOUGH!!! It is important to handle with kids gloves for a bit.. otherwise you actually worsen the trauma.. I’ve been there. It must be. Gradual process.. not for the faint of heart.
I don't know where I'm at honestly. I've been doing this for 23 years. I'm not sure I can hang on much longer. I have one shot at this life and there seems to be no winning outside of divorce.
[удалено]
I too want peace. Peace. :))
Yeah I see it a lot in my failed relationship. I also see that it feels like the dynamics changed over time. She was more anxious at first then it switched. Money was a big issue the last few years and I became a shell of myself. I escaped getting high and had co dependent behaviors. She made a friend which normally we were always together. Things just spiraled from there. I do believe a separation would help alot but she's so in love with this person that the only hope is that over time she begins to miss me and see that it was more external issues than contributed to our failed relationship and not her and I.
Truth is she will. She is me, 4 years ago and it will crash and burn. It almost always does..
Ugh. Staph! 😭 lol I messaged you.
One of the major reasons I’m separated from my husband is his codependency. And he presented NONE of those warning signs. I would have never guessed he was that way until well into our relationship (took about two years until it started showing)
Do you feel you are codependent in any way? Because for it to get to 2 years means some enabling must have been present
I can be a caretaker and have had difficulty setting boundaries. I wouldn’t consider myself codependent though. But for the first portion of my relationship, he was very independent, confident and supportive. Then once we had a kid he because really insecure, never wanted me to do anything, very controlling, dismissive, a lot of emotional immaturity in general, manipulative about sex and disrespectful about boundaries. My therapist thinks he’s border-lining being a narcissist. But definitely none of the signs you listed about the first dates was there at all. He was a delight.
The “caretaker” is the characteristic mask of the codependent.. I wonder if you know when you picked up that mask and why
lol I’d guess being a woman in America.
What if they kept you home as stay home caregiver for their grandparent and kept you from being able to not be codependent
That was a foundational problem in my marriage as well. I know I was too dependent on her, there was definitely some "I don't want to be alone, I'm glad I found someone" and I think there was something of that on her side as well. As far as I can know/assume she hates being alone, the only time she was not in a relationship in the time I knew her (including before our relationship, as friends) was when the guy before me dumped her, not the other way around. I don't know about the earlier ones but three's out of five or so is a decent sample size. Vice versa she was also dependent on me I think (or just a/her partner) as well, to a degree. She only ended our relationship when she had the next one lined up, so she wouldn't be alone, I guess. Pretty much 1-10 were true for me, to various degrees. 4 only a little, 6 and 9 more so. Most of them for her as well imho (1,5,6,9 not so much, but 2 and 10 **very** much so imo, also 7 I think). She'd been in multiple relationships, she was my first and then straight into 10+ years and marriage, so it makes sense that I had more "unresolved issues" than her. I've since realized and acknowledged this whole issue and at this point I think I would not check nearly as many marks. The pain, the experience of the separation, the divorce and all that "helped" me realize and work on a lot of stuff. I'd like to believe that at least in the beginning, in the early years there was real, actual love as well, in addition to this co-dependency. At least it felt like it and even looking back on it now I think - and I choose to believe - that was the case. I'm glad for the time we had, the good times, only wish I knew then what I know now, things might have turned out differently. Future relationships should turn out different, for one because I'm not gonna be as invested anymore, not gonna marry again, not gonna have children with another woman. And I'll try very much not to fall into the same trap/behavior again.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I can feel the pain as I too am of the same sentiment. I won’t be dating or marrying again. I left myself too vulnerable in my most recent relationship. The most unprotected I have ever been and it smacked me right across the face. I’ll stick to just dating me.
I am so codependent. At least I was. With him. It was the perfect storm. The chronically ill, self-destructive man meets the bleeding heart woman with deep-rooted childhood abandonment wounds. Never again
Yupp
Oh I was most definitely, but also a dichotomy as I was the breadwinner/financial decision maker. Unfortunately, he was a sociopathic narcissist.
Ok so what I don't get here is... - is it one, some or all of these that classify someone as codependent? - both me and my ex could identify with at least one of these, what does that make us?
No not necessarily. We all have a little codependency within us. It more of the balance and unhealthy state of the person and the relationship that makes it a problem
Ok, so with my ex for example, she told me that she was afraid of ending up alone. I get the impression she'd rather be in a relationship than not Although there's a little of that worry in all of us, surely we should spend time working on our own self to make sure the next relationship is better?
We should, but not because we want our next relationship to be better but because we want to be better.. everything else benefits from it. The problem though is that I believe a lot of these wounds are best healed within a relationship
Oh really? ! A lot of the advice I've seen so far seems to focus on the fact that you need to heal on your own.
Most of our traumas happen in relationships.. be it romantic or not.. and can be healed in relationships.. You can heal only to the ability that singleness allows you to heal.. but those triggers will likely return when you get into another relationship and then the relationship work begins…
That's an interesting perspective thanks. However then you're potentially healing at the expense of another person's time and potential feelings too? For example last year I dated a really lovely lady for a few months, then I realised I wasn't really ready to commit so ended things with her. I felt pretty crap about that. (Luckily we have remained friends)
You are both healing together.. that’s the beauty