IceFrog taking notes.
7.37
Last Word reworked
Old: some lame ass shit
New: If Silencer gets hit by an spell, he blinks 1200 units to a safe place and silences, slows and breaks the enemy that casted the spell for 2/3/4/5 seconds. CD: 10sec. Talent -3s CD.
Reworked Glaives
Now it can be casted in the ground to drop an spinning glaive that deals 1.5 x silencer Int as magic damage per second. This makes Silencer a melee hero for the duration of the ~~fidget spinner~~ Glaive.
There's tons of heroes without mobility or wave clear lol. People will look at one hero who used to have no mobility like Zeus get one of the worst mobility spells in the game (because without it, he was never used in the pro scene that the game is generally balanced around) and then think that suddenly every hero is like AM or something
It used to be really stupid with the range, slow, attack speed slow, cast time slow, for some reason debuff lasts 3 seconds. Now it's just a slight jump lmao
I'm struggling to think of a hero without wave clear or mobility...clinks but he dose still get like haste and invis from his ult 🤔 wait veng is one!!!
Heroes should have strengths and weaknesses, but the suggestion here is to bring back an ability that was miserable to play against, and balance it by making the hero miserable to play.
That isn't strengths and weaknesses, that's just not fun
honestly rather than giving every hero wave clear they should make a maelstorm for caster
not like gleipnier where the only good aspect of it for caster is its active because of maelstorm
want something midrange that can clear wave with decent mana cost and low cooldown but not that good in stat to compensate
kinda surprised that they havent made something like that yet after all these year
> Anytime an enemy casts a spell they are silenced for 2 seconds.
I still have bad memories from when every single invoker orb change would trigger his 3 sec silence aura
Yep. His old aura was anytime a nearby enemy cast a spell they were silenced and the intelligence steal was tied to it so anyone who died affected by the aura had their int stolen. Pretty much destroyed combo heroes like tiny, earthshaker, tinker, etc…it was gross.
I mean that’s pretty much what it was after it got reworked and before this recent change. It was that targeted ability that silenced an enemy and dealt damage if they cast a spell then the agh’s turned it into an aoe. I felt like it was a fine ability and am not sure why they changed it but oh well.
Yeah. Which is fine, I guess. I just miss when I could carry silencer cause ever since they switched glaives of wisdom from true damage to magic it just hasn’t been the same. The sheer joy that came from chunking big boys for like 1/5th their health a shot or one hitting supports from a mile away when combined with enchanted quiver was so satisfying. He had the range of sniper, his attacks bounced like Luna, and he scaled as the game went on. I’m like level 25 silencer and most of it has been from core silencer and my favorite versions of him are when he’s a right click beast with silence utility but at the cost of very low mobility.
Silencer cannot be silenced is just plain useless and stupid. Much rather have his facets to be aoe last word vs 2x int steal. Bring back the old last word and make int steal his innate. Hell even have silencer cannot be silenced as an add on innate, its that useless
> Silencer cannot be silenced is just plain useless and stupid
what? it definitely isnt. if enemy has doom,disruptor,night stalker,DP or ANY orchid buyers they have 0 means of stopping you from using global with their main spells.
its a situational facet, but it can be very good.
I rather have a Midas so I can reach 20 easier than witch blade tbh. Unless you already snowball quite hard,you won't even do much DMG at that point anyway.
I thought of MoM too after seeing that cannot be silenced, but then realized how underwhelming his W is until you get a few decent stacks of int steal or 3 nulls. Its like +20 or 30 pure damage ;-;
It's one of those ideas that sound like they have to be good, but ultimately just don't really do much.
My 5 bought it last match and dude was just using it to run faster for the most part. At that point just buy drums. Or a wind lace.
Honestly, with the last word change I had kinda expected Silencer to get a movement ability (like so many other heroes got). I mean Zeus gets a slowing escape that can cross cliffs and stops blinks...and Silencer gets to add a little bit of dot if he fucks up and layers silences.
Imagine Sven's warcry gets removed and instead he gets a passive that adds +5 atk damage for every stun on the enemy he attacks.
The thing is, if that's the most important use case, then both his facets are for his ultimate. Everyone is buying manta nowadays so silencer' s other facet is also equally effective if not more. I think both facets are fine but skill rework made silencer suck
Youre right, thats probably what happened.
That makes no sense though, why show it visually - that's just false information for everyone. I imagine that's one to be updated
I guess it has minor influence on Ability Draft.
When Silencer is in the hero pool, his abilities will also be. So if someone picks Silencer and goes for the "cannot be silenced"-facet and an enemy picks Silencer's spells, Silencer will then still be affected by all the different interactions with being silenced (e.g. Arcane Curse being paused during it, taking extra damage from multiple stacked sources of silence).
EDIT: They also put that behavior into the extra information when you hover over the little "i" symbol in the in-game patch notes:
> Silencer cannot be silenced. (i) Technically, he can. You can still cast Bloodthorn on him, but that won't stop him from using abilities. Hex, however, will not allow using abilities.
Bloodthorne / orchid have a separate impact beyond the silence though. It feels like the impact of incorrectly highlighting that he's silenced to the game versus the inconvenience for the bloodthorne user or Rubick is not on par. I would take a bet that they change this soon
Its nice if the enemy has storm or qops or clinkz
They have a harder time jumping on u and u can trun it on then easily with global for a counter attack from ur m8s
Which also means that they have to stun u to kill u before u get ur ult off
counters orchid and other silences (grim, drow, etc), allows you to use MoM, it's not nothing especially as a core.
non core silencer seems like absolute garbage after this rework anyway
The point of the facet is you pick it if the enemy has silences or orchid buyers to fuck your day up, and if they don't then you pick the global silence one LMAO
His double silence is the only redeeming factor he currently has. I basically nullifies any manta/BKB dispel as a niche, but man is silencer underwhelming currently in a non-stomping game where he collects INT
They actually fucked him pretty hard on release because his shard wasn’t stealing more int, haven’t tried him again since they fixed it in 7.36a yet cause it felt so bad playing a hero that already suffers in the gamefeel department
that would be great actually, 1/2/3/4 would make early kills matter less and would give a real incentive for a core silencer to actually skill his ult at 6.
yes they should keep buffing one of the most annoying supports to lane against and boost his stats stealing to be global and actually also happen overtime too.
He is really strong hitting laner, can be mid or support, has global initiation or counter initiation.
Honestly what eves do you want him to do? Make him another 'I-can-do-all' hero?
I've been trying himas mid in unranked (Immortal rank) and he's not that bad in laning, most of the time. You'll have a better outcome if you keep ganking or tping to another lane and getting a kill or two, then going back mid and buying another tp to do it again. However, he suffers so bad mid game, it's not even funny. Silencer doesn't have mobility and doesn't even have his hp to 1,500 mid game, so he dies lot in teamfights if enemy even has any idea on who to target. Cause the thing is, as core, you really can't stay back during teamfights as you really want that int gain if your team kills someone, but doing so, you show yourself to enemies and you'll die with 1 disable.
The fact you basically NEED to be hitting people with glaives now also made him kinda useless as a support. You used to be able to stay on the periphery of a fight and cast last word/curse, but now it's only a nerfed version of curse which requires you to be in Last Word aura range to get any kind of a boost.
Love the facet for his ultimate, but he sucks as a support in lane and can't farm for shit.
I’d love if they gave him some mobility or even MS but they prolly won’t so I’d settle for some armor to help him not get blown up as quickly without items
Euls still does well against it since the second debuff is off by the time you land. Good against all the other instant dispels that most cores get though.
Oh yeah!. It completely fucked over an Anti-Mage split pushing. He got ganked, was hoping for his fancy new manta to save him - Nope, got silenced long enough to get caught.
Arcane Curse is extremely obnoxious right now as well for any hero that relies on casting multiple spells in a row to initiate. And will force you to bkb or use your dispels unless you want to give up on the initiation. Which then he can global you and you need another dispel. And if he has reverberating silence, you either have 3 dispels (lol) or you will never initiate properly.
And all of this can be done every single teamfight late game, and is very reliable even when losing a game and defending hg.
I still have no idea why people are picking the other facet. Oh no you can't silence the silencer. Great. Get a bkb if the opponents have a bunch of Drow qop etc. The biggest thing it buffs is making you more of a core with MoM but he's a middling core at best.
The ulti facet is so stupidly strong and deals with one of his largest downfalls. You drop the silence on the jump silencing the enemies. Enemy team immediately pops bkb/dispels. But since the new facet applies again, and can pierce bkb, you immediately silence them while they have bkb on. 2 seconds of the enemies bkbs are silenced which is huge especially when dealing with squishy supports.
Getting a refresher means you can silence their entire team for the entire fight if you want or always have one up. Even with the full 9 second duration you can have them silenced for 8 of the 9 seconds. That's nuts.
One would think that is the default since the total silence duration stays, but maybe they plan to nerf that. Just poor guys who do not check them facets...
I'm surprised people are dumping on him. He's definitely better than before and like 50% or higher in all brackets.
I've yet lot to lose a game with him this patch.
Glaves int steal lasts so, so long. Try playing centaur vs silencer. You won't have enough mana to use ult. Like that old pudge meme except worse. Not enough for do his power.
I mean 7k+ isn't an actual bracket.
I'd take those stats with a grain of salt just due to the small sample size. It also says he's got a 52% win rate in 9.5k+. He's got a similar winrate to ench, bat, disruptor, venge, grim, Marci, and those are perfectly meta playable 5's to compare to. So what exactly is that indicative of?
I believe the ending intent with a lot of these changes over recent years is to provide at least one core avenue for every hero. Some of them feel like additions just for turbo tbh but in general they want a way any hero can scale and for Silencer in particular they've half-tried to encourage core silencer for years and years. I mean I used to try it in hon all the time.
Personal thought is that it's hard to be relevant early with old silencer being both slow and all your damage is easily dispelled or tangoed off with lots of warning. Plus you leveled q as it's your slow. Now you max q and not sacrificing silence duration and you can level E if behind and can't right click and you level w if your popping off and will generate more value.
When maxed sure, but also big negatives it being a DOT so hp regen negates alot of it, it being purgeable by like 50 items and a bunch of heros base abilities and the big warning so you have lots of time if it will be an issue to tp. And that damage really only comes online once you got a few levels in your q+e. Early game you are worthless which this helps with.
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We need to bring it back to being automatic silence which triggers when enemy casts any spell. Just even a short 1 second duration silence would be a nice disruption in the combo department, and then if its too op, make it an active spell with duration, so that its not ON all the time and also you can focus silencer before he manages to activate it
Yeah he has the same fall off timing, but his late game is honestly crazy now. You cannot reasonably fight into 2x Reverberate global applying undispelable curse that also silences.
Keep in mind the reverberate lasts only 2 seconds though, which means that ok dispels no longer completely nullifies global, but they still reduce its duration by 66%.
What are you expecting? His every ability to be god tier? Glaives of wisdom got so overbuffed and global is on demand unconditional 5man cc, this hero had no power budget left for his e.
It's does too much damage. He gets int too easily, leads to polarizing games where if he can click you have to have a core dedicated to killing him first, and if he can't click the hero feels awful to play since you're little more than a walking ult.
nothing about glaives was changed apart from gaining a shittier version of his old shard's silence every 4 attacks, same damage, same int steal, just gets +50s duration from his current shard. it's like 6 damage for 20 mana lvl 1.
? Expecting a skill to be meaningful, not a garbage 0 impact skill that does literally nothing. Your reason is stupid, not every abilty need to be god tier, but every abilty need to be meaningful.
Glaives alone are good, yes. But they cost 20 mana in the laning stage and tickle. If you skill them, you lack the nuke which is your base to have at least ANY presence in fights - but then you lack the mana to use glaives. Glaives become a thing for silencer when you have stolen a lot of INT (which basically requires an early shard) to become a core - but you still have no farming capability.
The int steal duration lasts pretty long and you honestly hit harder from the +dmg than the actual Glaive damage in lane, also reducing int/uni hero damage. Not to mention orb walking.
Better than you are giving it credit.
Glaives are still shit tier because u can't build him for right click without losing the game (at least in higher mmr)
His q isn't doing much. He is a complete ult bot but his ult isn't as strong as others who have a functioning kit as well
Bad take, the passive actually does a lot of damage/slow since the debuff stacks. You could have a silence from Curse, glaives, and global all triggers last word which would slow the enemy for 45%/60% talented. I admit hes weaker as a support but they new design kinda points him towards a core role. Orchid also procs the passive as well.
If you're laning with another silence used it could be quite good (drow, muerta, or dp).
I think it's a bit misleading in that sense, but I feel like the stack damage is just to give you something when you inevitably do stack them, especially glaive silence.
Exactly this, feels like a mechanic to not feel that bad when silences inevitably overlap. Also it's an additional, 'hidden' power for the double global silence facet.
New ability is not meant to encourage intentionally overlapping silences as some kind of strat, at all
Yeah but it is very niche. They need to cast spells to be silenced by curse which they cant if you have them silenced by glaives lol
I hope they remake the spell again cus it feels very awkward atm
You're.... Missing the point. Under no circumstances do good players ever want to stack debuffs like silence or stun.
You chain them. You don't overlap them. It's such a waste.
During a teamfight the silences will overlap during global silence regardless by silencer alone. And sometimes overlapping silences is not necessarily bad if the spell used deals damage and secures a kill. You're not wasting any spell usage by just hitting the enemy with glaives 4 times during global, its just extra damage and slow at that point.
you aren't forced to stack silences with the passive, you don't gain more total damage from stacking silences than separating them, in the same way that each of huskar's burning spears does a fixed amount of damage that is not affected by the other ones.
e.g. 2 silences for 5 seconds each stacked on top of each other is the same damage as those 2 silences separated and silencing for 10s because you'd be doing 100 dps for 5s vs 50 dps for 10s, which are both equal to 500.
it's more like you aren't losing damage if/when silences inadvertently get stacked (e.g. curse gets triggered into global) because realistically, people aren't perfectly coordinated, disables will get stacked in real games and people will use more damage than is necessary to secure kills.
you still have the option of stacking silences if you want the extra dps, but that's no different from people stacking stuns for burst.
Point is you get value out of stacking them. Like using orchid/bloodthorne/hex (think scythe active counts as silence) on someone, your glaives will silence them, and you can global too. Usually all three silences hitting someone incidentally would be wasted, but now Silencer slows them to an absolute crawl and ramps up the damage over time.
The problem with this spell is that it makes bad plays alright and with good plays the spell is pathetic. It's ironic but silencer's glaives used to be his worst spell in laning, but now it's actually his best spell since you steal 2 int at lvl 3. It's so bad people should think about skipping it for stats just to stay alive on this glorified global silence
I really wish it was a debuff that increased for the duration of the silence. Kinda like how upheaval works for warlock but in this case it works for chain silences.
There is no realistic way silencer will get three stacks on a target on his own.
The enemy would have to cast a spell under curse after which you’d have to ult and land your fourth glaive. All that just for two seconds of overlapping stacks.
Shits not happening and not worth it
50 DPS, and it's conditional, and requires stacking silences to be a damage source which is as backwards as stacking stuns for projectile damage. Also if you skip the global silence talent for the last word talent then you clearly play at a much different bracket
Im not sure you should be bringing up brackets when you are arguing against hard data lol.
Silencer is strong right now. He certainly does not need a buff.
The damage adds up alot though, one of those things that doesn't 'feel' good, but postgame you look and it did 20k damage, while giving a decent slow to everyone in a teamfight. Hard to quantify if its good or not
Definitely not true, hes stronger as a core now with the talent that makes him immune to silence and the slow from last word makes him even better at right clicking enemies. The last version had an active last word which would make you stop auto attacking for 1 sec to cast and it makes a difference.
I've had games where silencer mid just dominated if theres no heros that can jump him and burst him dow n in a stun. Divine/Low immortal bracket btw. Meanwhile when hes a support hes just non stop feeding lol. The hero has strengths and weaknesses such as everyone else.
Yet he also lacks the E which made him strong as a core in the first place so now your only real choice is to max glaives and that relies a lot on who you're playing against, also makes his ganks pretty dogshit.
If he is viable as a mid it seems very situational.
I do think the stacking silence part to it is a cool game mechanic, it can transform a bad thing to a good thing, but maybe it could do more if the rest of his kit is weakened...?
Maybe at 3 stacks of silence, the enemy becomes muted - it wouldn't last long at three stacks, but if you initiate with it, it could stop bkb, shadow blade escapes, etc
If you play Monky King, Imagine you would disarm for a short duration after 4 jingu hits, and to get the damage you would need to lvl a second ability...
It should be a debuff for when enemies use spells. Not a 2 sec silence like 10 years ago but something minor but additive similar to Curse. Every time an enemy uses a spell near Silencer it costs more mana or something
10/20/30/40% movement slow for 2 secs and 5/10/15/20% longer cd for spells used within 1000 radius to silencer, stacks diminishingly upto 5 times
take that bristle
It’s a bit inelegant how Curse applies dot and a slow and the passive does the same thing. I really like the idea of an aura that affects silenced units though.
It would be sick if his glaives bounced to silenced enemies near the target.
He is good late, but a complete shit on the lane. Glaves cost 20 mana for almost no damage, 1st spell maxed is 240 damage (+80 if ppl cast a spell), his passive literally doesn't work in lane till you get ulty.
Add 5, 10, 15, and 20% damage amps from Silencer to the targets effected by last word - e.g. silenced in 1200 aoe
(Lower the base stack damage if you need to).
Fixed. I think...
In an ideal world (but still keeping with Valves recent design choice) I would also add an activatable aspect (that temporarily increases the damage amp to 100% for a short duration), and swap the movement slow for attack speed slows to punish jumping Silencer while silenced.
Glad Valve took a shot at reworking Silencer, but I'm not convinced his press R gameplay has been disincentivised enough - in many ways its even more appealing e.g. Aghs refresher with the new reapplication facet.
Even I don't understand these reworks and facets. Good or Broken heroes have become absolutely broken and okayish and situational heroes have become garbage.
Silencer is a great example. Overall situational and bad earlier, but hot garbage now.
Well it's a bit complicated. I would argue that core silencer is much better now but support silencer is hot garbage. Regardless, this passive sucks on both but more so on support
Have you seen Wyverns ability? Wisdom rune gives 20% XP to others in your team. You really only have like 2 or 3 opportunities for this to happen in a game.
Wyvren's innate is quite strong the higher MMR you go where everyone fights for ruins. This is unfortunately not an innate but a passive that replaces an entire ability slot with little value for a support. It might even be better taking +8 all stats instead leveling up than putting some points in. Some key takeaways from the last week playing with and against core silencers is that last word would do 4k total hero damage at max in a 50 plus minute game. Thus a passive lacking behind in damage and utility compared to the old ability is garbanzo garbage
Agreed. Somehow silencer now have fewer buttons than drow. Also it works only in 1200 radius around him. As int hero you don't actually want to be this close to enemy at all.
An Int hero that has an Orb attack doesn't want to be within 1200 range of the enemy? What?
Silencer definitely does want to be within 1200 range. They may be squishy, but that's the offset the hero has to work with.
Silencer chucks out good dps and has an option to make global not be instant countered by one dispel. He doesn't need more buffs to his kit. Adding anything else is just power creeping him, so I think the direction with him just being a silencing damage/support as his main strength is good enough.
His new facet also forces teams to invest in way more defensive items and dispels which is super strong already. He's fine as-is with exception to maybe some damage tweaks.
I'm surprised most people aren't catching on to why he has that passive. It's to get orchid as his first item. Silencer was always god awful at reactively silencing someone because of the delay on it. Now you silence someone for 5 seconds, dealing 40x5 with your Q, + 50x5 with your passive, which is +30% thanks to orchid, with a 40% slow, and then your Q keeps going for another 6 seconds, and oh wow there's 5 seconds left on the cooldown, time to do it again.
Also, for the "why", it's because Orchid is trying to be balanced in this sort of "intelligence hero battlefury" way, where it's a great first item to get just for the stats alone but then it also lets you farm >!heroes!<
I don't disagree that Orchid makes this passive do a ton of dmg. But it's taking up an ability slot requiring an item to be effective. not to mention it's practically useless for a support role.
You should try playing him as a position 1 or 3. You'd be surprised how good at carrying he is when he has items. He still can't mid though, mana problems remain.
He shouldn't. He's not a good last hitter so against most mids you should be getting denied even if you orb walk to harass, and then you have mana problems and no innate regen. And then you're also silencer so if anyone ever walks up to mid on the side that's not warded you are just instantly dead even if you run under tower.
Remember when Razor had a passive that gave only himself a tiny bit more movement speed? As good as movement speed can be, I can appreciate any passive that does more than that
So far I've found Silencer to be fine at least at my scrub MMR. Not every hero can have every skill be really strong, if Enigma had Sniper's ult, he would be ass.
The passive just gives you more for what you are already doing, you can often stack silences by using your spells unintentionally and the passive makes this less of a waste. Also worth noting that Silencer as a hero benefits a lot from slows, as he enjoys throwing glaives at people and running away from them.
I'm honestly more surprised its not his actual innate and instead he has an outright new ability
100%, it is the best answer
Bring back his old aura. Anytime an enemy casts a spell they are silenced for 2 seconds.
That was absurdly broken
this shit was a nightmare for a tiny trying to do his combo
Earthshaker still crying about it.
Final nail in Tinker's coffin
Pretty there was a time when you can shift queue as tinker and it would bypass this passive
[удалено]
Ah yes, Silencer, the hero of mobility and wave clear.
Silencer still has neither lmao
does silencer still have that glaive of wisdom bouce? i forgot if its shard,aghs,or talent,but i recall its one of those
He does at level 20 so it's a bit pointless for farming by then, you get it too late
oh damn that late? no wonder lol
It was level 15 last year
Still remember the pre version 6 silencer, starfall and summon golems, there is your wave clear.
IceFrog taking notes. 7.37 Last Word reworked Old: some lame ass shit New: If Silencer gets hit by an spell, he blinks 1200 units to a safe place and silences, slows and breaks the enemy that casted the spell for 2/3/4/5 seconds. CD: 10sec. Talent -3s CD. Reworked Glaives Now it can be casted in the ground to drop an spinning glaive that deals 1.5 x silencer Int as magic damage per second. This makes Silencer a melee hero for the duration of the ~~fidget spinner~~ Glaive.
My favorite mobility hero, venomancer.
And he isn't now?
There's tons of heroes without mobility or wave clear lol. People will look at one hero who used to have no mobility like Zeus get one of the worst mobility spells in the game (because without it, he was never used in the pro scene that the game is generally balanced around) and then think that suddenly every hero is like AM or something
This! Very bored of people pretending zues jump is some god-like escape. It made the hero viable. The shard is what made the hero imba
It used to be really stupid with the range, slow, attack speed slow, cast time slow, for some reason debuff lasts 3 seconds. Now it's just a slight jump lmao
I'm struggling to think of a hero without wave clear or mobility...clinks but he dose still get like haste and invis from his ult 🤔 wait veng is one!!!
What can you do commenters havent actually played dota recently so theyre still stuck on fucking heavenly jump post buffs
Heroes should have strengths and weaknesses, but the suggestion here is to bring back an ability that was miserable to play against, and balance it by making the hero miserable to play. That isn't strengths and weaknesses, that's just not fun
honestly rather than giving every hero wave clear they should make a maelstorm for caster not like gleipnier where the only good aspect of it for caster is its active because of maelstorm want something midrange that can clear wave with decent mana cost and low cooldown but not that good in stat to compensate kinda surprised that they havent made something like that yet after all these year
Wasn't that what Meteor hammer was supposed to be? Or is that the joke and I just wasn't smart enough to see it?
not low cooldown enough IMO, also feels like its used to push tower more than push wave due to the cooldown
Creeps spawn every 30 seconds, and Meme hammer CD is 24 seconds. Seems fair to me.
stop being a baby, come on
yeah but it was fun to disable it with a silence of our own :D
depend on the range honestly make it like 400-600 and it wouldnt be that broken,unless carry silencer pop off
Good. Broken DotA is best DotA.
It's on the Q now. Old aura was a bit much and hard to balance. Low duration makes it awful, low range makes it awful etc. etc.
> Anytime an enemy casts a spell they are silenced for 2 seconds. I still have bad memories from when every single invoker orb change would trigger his 3 sec silence aura
WHAT
Yep. His old aura was anytime a nearby enemy cast a spell they were silenced and the intelligence steal was tied to it so anyone who died affected by the aura had their int stolen. Pretty much destroyed combo heroes like tiny, earthshaker, tinker, etc…it was gross.
Enigma players fell to their knees in tears of joy once that spell got reworked
It could be an active aprt of the ability.
I mean that’s pretty much what it was after it got reworked and before this recent change. It was that targeted ability that silenced an enemy and dealt damage if they cast a spell then the agh’s turned it into an aoe. I felt like it was a fine ability and am not sure why they changed it but oh well.
That's also kinda what his Q is now - silences enemies when they cast a spell, but has to be applied first.
They basically reverted silencer to a much previous version, with old Q.
Yeah. Which is fine, I guess. I just miss when I could carry silencer cause ever since they switched glaives of wisdom from true damage to magic it just hasn’t been the same. The sheer joy that came from chunking big boys for like 1/5th their health a shot or one hitting supports from a mile away when combined with enchanted quiver was so satisfying. He had the range of sniper, his attacks bounced like Luna, and he scaled as the game went on. I’m like level 25 silencer and most of it has been from core silencer and my favorite versions of him are when he’s a right click beast with silence utility but at the cost of very low mobility.
That’s basically arcane curse but as a passive
Silencer cannot be silenced is just plain useless and stupid. Much rather have his facets to be aoe last word vs 2x int steal. Bring back the old last word and make int steal his innate. Hell even have silencer cannot be silenced as an add on innate, its that useless
> Silencer cannot be silenced is just plain useless and stupid what? it definitely isnt. if enemy has doom,disruptor,night stalker,DP or ANY orchid buyers they have 0 means of stopping you from using global with their main spells. its a situational facet, but it can be very good.
Mom is fun item but basically unobtainable with the item progression, need early force staff and which blade would be better
I rather have a Midas so I can reach 20 easier than witch blade tbh. Unless you already snowball quite hard,you won't even do much DMG at that point anyway.
I thought of MoM too after seeing that cannot be silenced, but then realized how underwhelming his W is until you get a few decent stacks of int steal or 3 nulls. Its like +20 or 30 pure damage ;-;
It's one of those ideas that sound like they have to be good, but ultimately just don't really do much. My 5 bought it last match and dude was just using it to run faster for the most part. At that point just buy drums. Or a wind lace. Honestly, with the last word change I had kinda expected Silencer to get a movement ability (like so many other heroes got). I mean Zeus gets a slowing escape that can cross cliffs and stops blinks...and Silencer gets to add a little bit of dot if he fucks up and layers silences. Imagine Sven's warcry gets removed and instead he gets a passive that adds +5 atk damage for every stun on the enemy he attacks.
The thing is, if that's the most important use case, then both his facets are for his ultimate. Everyone is buying manta nowadays so silencer' s other facet is also equally effective if not more. I think both facets are fine but skill rework made silencer suck
Just played a game and it doesnt work vs Night Stalker
then its a bug or u didnt pick the facet. because i did go against an NS and it did work :)
i definitely had it picked so must be a bug
You will still be silenced visually but are still able to cast spells. Maybe that confused you.
Youre right, thats probably what happened. That makes no sense though, why show it visually - that's just false information for everyone. I imagine that's one to be updated
I guess it has minor influence on Ability Draft. When Silencer is in the hero pool, his abilities will also be. So if someone picks Silencer and goes for the "cannot be silenced"-facet and an enemy picks Silencer's spells, Silencer will then still be affected by all the different interactions with being silenced (e.g. Arcane Curse being paused during it, taking extra damage from multiple stacked sources of silence). EDIT: They also put that behavior into the extra information when you hover over the little "i" symbol in the in-game patch notes: > Silencer cannot be silenced. (i) Technically, he can. You can still cast Bloodthorn on him, but that won't stop him from using abilities. Hex, however, will not allow using abilities.
Bloodthorne / orchid have a separate impact beyond the silence though. It feels like the impact of incorrectly highlighting that he's silenced to the game versus the inconvenience for the bloodthorne user or Rubick is not on par. I would take a bet that they change this soon
Its nice if the enemy has storm or qops or clinkz They have a harder time jumping on u and u can trun it on then easily with global for a counter attack from ur m8s Which also means that they have to stun u to kill u before u get ur ult off
counters orchid and other silences (grim, drow, etc), allows you to use MoM, it's not nothing especially as a core. non core silencer seems like absolute garbage after this rework anyway
grim silences silencer through the facet.
Silencer cannot be silenced should be a level 15 or 20 talent.
The point of the facet is you pick it if the enemy has silences or orchid buyers to fuck your day up, and if they don't then you pick the global silence one LMAO
Big fan of OP getting a post to the front page and then farming about -200 karma in the comments for some of the worst takes in dota
If they nerf the fucking double silence global silence I don't mind last word doing 600 damage nuke.
His double silence is the only redeeming factor he currently has. I basically nullifies any manta/BKB dispel as a niche, but man is silencer underwhelming currently in a non-stomping game where he collects INT
They actually fucked him pretty hard on release because his shard wasn’t stealing more int, haven’t tried him again since they fixed it in 7.36a yet cause it felt so bad playing a hero that already suffers in the gamefeel department
IMO they should just give increasing innate int steal with levels of ult and give him some new Shard.
that would be great actually, 1/2/3/4 would make early kills matter less and would give a real incentive for a core silencer to actually skill his ult at 6.
yes they should keep buffing one of the most annoying supports to lane against and boost his stats stealing to be global and actually also happen overtime too. He is really strong hitting laner, can be mid or support, has global initiation or counter initiation. Honestly what eves do you want him to do? Make him another 'I-can-do-all' hero?
I've been trying himas mid in unranked (Immortal rank) and he's not that bad in laning, most of the time. You'll have a better outcome if you keep ganking or tping to another lane and getting a kill or two, then going back mid and buying another tp to do it again. However, he suffers so bad mid game, it's not even funny. Silencer doesn't have mobility and doesn't even have his hp to 1,500 mid game, so he dies lot in teamfights if enemy even has any idea on who to target. Cause the thing is, as core, you really can't stay back during teamfights as you really want that int gain if your team kills someone, but doing so, you show yourself to enemies and you'll die with 1 disable.
The fact you basically NEED to be hitting people with glaives now also made him kinda useless as a support. You used to be able to stay on the periphery of a fight and cast last word/curse, but now it's only a nerfed version of curse which requires you to be in Last Word aura range to get any kind of a boost. Love the facet for his ultimate, but he sucks as a support in lane and can't farm for shit.
That too. He's buffed as a core but still is too weak to be played as a core, not even close
I’d love if they gave him some mobility or even MS but they prolly won’t so I’d settle for some armor to help him not get blown up as quickly without items
I hope he gets something to increase armor or total hp. He is really squishy to be played as a core.
Euls still does well against it since the second debuff is off by the time you land. Good against all the other instant dispels that most cores get though.
Oh yeah!. It completely fucked over an Anti-Mage split pushing. He got ganked, was hoping for his fancy new manta to save him - Nope, got silenced long enough to get caught.
Arcane Curse is extremely obnoxious right now as well for any hero that relies on casting multiple spells in a row to initiate. And will force you to bkb or use your dispels unless you want to give up on the initiation. Which then he can global you and you need another dispel. And if he has reverberating silence, you either have 3 dispels (lol) or you will never initiate properly. And all of this can be done every single teamfight late game, and is very reliable even when losing a game and defending hg.
he should be also stealing int from all enemies on using ult too \s
Nobody said that. You should learn to read.
you should learn what /s means
I miss aoe last word mutes :(
I still have no idea why people are picking the other facet. Oh no you can't silence the silencer. Great. Get a bkb if the opponents have a bunch of Drow qop etc. The biggest thing it buffs is making you more of a core with MoM but he's a middling core at best. The ulti facet is so stupidly strong and deals with one of his largest downfalls. You drop the silence on the jump silencing the enemies. Enemy team immediately pops bkb/dispels. But since the new facet applies again, and can pierce bkb, you immediately silence them while they have bkb on. 2 seconds of the enemies bkbs are silenced which is huge especially when dealing with squishy supports. Getting a refresher means you can silence their entire team for the entire fight if you want or always have one up. Even with the full 9 second duration you can have them silenced for 8 of the 9 seconds. That's nuts.
One would think that is the default since the total silence duration stays, but maybe they plan to nerf that. Just poor guys who do not check them facets...
What I could say is I will not pick silencer as a support in this patch.
I'm surprised people are dumping on him. He's definitely better than before and like 50% or higher in all brackets. I've yet lot to lose a game with him this patch.
His reapplying silence facet is insanely good. His spells are good. His winrate went up. He's good now.
Glaves int steal lasts so, so long. Try playing centaur vs silencer. You won't have enough mana to use ult. Like that old pudge meme except worse. Not enough for do his power.
> He's good now. Not as a support, no. His laning is dogshit.
> He's definitely better than before and like 50% or higher in all brackets. That's just false he is 46% in 7k+ https://dota2protracker.com/meta/7.36a
I mean 7k+ isn't an actual bracket. I'd take those stats with a grain of salt just due to the small sample size. It also says he's got a 52% win rate in 9.5k+. He's got a similar winrate to ench, bat, disruptor, venge, grim, Marci, and those are perfectly meta playable 5's to compare to. So what exactly is that indicative of?
As a core, he’s fine, especially if you can protect him. As a support, he feels so bad.
I believe the ending intent with a lot of these changes over recent years is to provide at least one core avenue for every hero. Some of them feel like additions just for turbo tbh but in general they want a way any hero can scale and for Silencer in particular they've half-tried to encourage core silencer for years and years. I mean I used to try it in hon all the time.
Personal thought is that it's hard to be relevant early with old silencer being both slow and all your damage is easily dispelled or tangoed off with lots of warning. Plus you leveled q as it's your slow. Now you max q and not sacrificing silence duration and you can level E if behind and can't right click and you level w if your popping off and will generate more value.
Old silencer had lots of damage from q+e combo. New silencer have next to no damage if enemy didn't press spell during his q.
Even when they press any spell, all the damage comes from Q, the new E is very underwhelming.
When maxed sure, but also big negatives it being a DOT so hp regen negates alot of it, it being purgeable by like 50 items and a bunch of heros base abilities and the big warning so you have lots of time if it will be an issue to tp. And that damage really only comes online once you got a few levels in your q+e. Early game you are worthless which this helps with.
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We need to bring it back to being automatic silence which triggers when enemy casts any spell. Just even a short 1 second duration silence would be a nice disruption in the combo department, and then if its too op, make it an active spell with duration, so that its not ON all the time and also you can focus silencer before he manages to activate it
I mean that is what the Q is now.
not me reinventing the wheel, uhm. anyways.
yeah it super annoying if silencer manage to get agh and RO now. but only if
Yeah he has the same fall off timing, but his late game is honestly crazy now. You cannot reasonably fight into 2x Reverberate global applying undispelable curse that also silences.
Keep in mind the reverberate lasts only 2 seconds though, which means that ok dispels no longer completely nullifies global, but they still reduce its duration by 66%.
Just buy Eul, cyclone lasts longer than the re-applied silence anyway even for maxed GS.
What are you expecting? His every ability to be god tier? Glaives of wisdom got so overbuffed and global is on demand unconditional 5man cc, this hero had no power budget left for his e.
How is his glaives overbuffed? I just want to know what was changed
It's does too much damage. He gets int too easily, leads to polarizing games where if he can click you have to have a core dedicated to killing him first, and if he can't click the hero feels awful to play since you're little more than a walking ult.
If no cores are killing the squishy back lines you’re probably gonna lose those fights regardless
nothing about glaives was changed apart from gaining a shittier version of his old shard's silence every 4 attacks, same damage, same int steal, just gets +50s duration from his current shard. it's like 6 damage for 20 mana lvl 1.
The overturning didn't come in a single patch. We pretty often have heroes that get small buffs going unnoticed until someone finds the right build.
? Expecting a skill to be meaningful, not a garbage 0 impact skill that does literally nothing. Your reason is stupid, not every abilty need to be god tier, but every abilty need to be meaningful.
Glaives alone are good, yes. But they cost 20 mana in the laning stage and tickle. If you skill them, you lack the nuke which is your base to have at least ANY presence in fights - but then you lack the mana to use glaives. Glaives become a thing for silencer when you have stolen a lot of INT (which basically requires an early shard) to become a core - but you still have no farming capability.
Just an fyi, glaives pay for themselves once they’re at level 2 with the int steal
The int steal duration lasts pretty long and you honestly hit harder from the +dmg than the actual Glaive damage in lane, also reducing int/uni hero damage. Not to mention orb walking. Better than you are giving it credit.
Glaives are still shit tier because u can't build him for right click without losing the game (at least in higher mmr) His q isn't doing much. He is a complete ult bot but his ult isn't as strong as others who have a functioning kit as well
Q is much more annoying now procing silence, especially with the 20 undispelable talent.
yeah if he could get to level 20
yea ive tried it twice and it just feels so bad, hes still shit at farming, so immobile, and not even as much of a lane dominator as he once was
fellow sane dota player agrees glaives are still medioce xD. Shocking
What's the meaning of "cc"? 🙏
Crowd control, basically any effect that allows you to impact multiple enemies and limit their options in what they can do.
Bad take, the passive actually does a lot of damage/slow since the debuff stacks. You could have a silence from Curse, glaives, and global all triggers last word which would slow the enemy for 45%/60% talented. I admit hes weaker as a support but they new design kinda points him towards a core role. Orchid also procs the passive as well. If you're laning with another silence used it could be quite good (drow, muerta, or dp).
Yeh it stacks but that makes the spell even weirder. You want to chain those debuffs not stack them
I think it's a bit misleading in that sense, but I feel like the stack damage is just to give you something when you inevitably do stack them, especially glaive silence.
Exactly this, feels like a mechanic to not feel that bad when silences inevitably overlap. Also it's an additional, 'hidden' power for the double global silence facet. New ability is not meant to encourage intentionally overlapping silences as some kind of strat, at all
Yeah but it is very niche. They need to cast spells to be silenced by curse which they cant if you have them silenced by glaives lol I hope they remake the spell again cus it feels very awkward atm
You're.... Missing the point. Under no circumstances do good players ever want to stack debuffs like silence or stun. You chain them. You don't overlap them. It's such a waste.
During a teamfight the silences will overlap during global silence regardless by silencer alone. And sometimes overlapping silences is not necessarily bad if the spell used deals damage and secures a kill. You're not wasting any spell usage by just hitting the enemy with glaives 4 times during global, its just extra damage and slow at that point.
It doesn't do enough damage. Why are you not reading.
you aren't forced to stack silences with the passive, you don't gain more total damage from stacking silences than separating them, in the same way that each of huskar's burning spears does a fixed amount of damage that is not affected by the other ones. e.g. 2 silences for 5 seconds each stacked on top of each other is the same damage as those 2 silences separated and silencing for 10s because you'd be doing 100 dps for 5s vs 50 dps for 10s, which are both equal to 500. it's more like you aren't losing damage if/when silences inadvertently get stacked (e.g. curse gets triggered into global) because realistically, people aren't perfectly coordinated, disables will get stacked in real games and people will use more damage than is necessary to secure kills. you still have the option of stacking silences if you want the extra dps, but that's no different from people stacking stuns for burst.
Point is you get value out of stacking them. Like using orchid/bloodthorne/hex (think scythe active counts as silence) on someone, your glaives will silence them, and you can global too. Usually all three silences hitting someone incidentally would be wasted, but now Silencer slows them to an absolute crawl and ramps up the damage over time.
The problem with this spell is that it makes bad plays alright and with good plays the spell is pathetic. It's ironic but silencer's glaives used to be his worst spell in laning, but now it's actually his best spell since you steal 2 int at lvl 3. It's so bad people should think about skipping it for stats just to stay alive on this glorified global silence
I really wish it was a debuff that increased for the duration of the silence. Kinda like how upheaval works for warlock but in this case it works for chain silences.
There is no realistic way silencer will get three stacks on a target on his own. The enemy would have to cast a spell under curse after which you’d have to ult and land your fourth glaive. All that just for two seconds of overlapping stacks. Shits not happening and not worth it
50 DPS, and it's conditional, and requires stacking silences to be a damage source which is as backwards as stacking stuns for projectile damage. Also if you skip the global silence talent for the last word talent then you clearly play at a much different bracket
Im not sure you should be bringing up brackets when you are arguing against hard data lol. Silencer is strong right now. He certainly does not need a buff.
The damage adds up alot though, one of those things that doesn't 'feel' good, but postgame you look and it did 20k damage, while giving a decent slow to everyone in a teamfight. Hard to quantify if its good or not
He's more dogshit in core now than last patch
Definitely not true, hes stronger as a core now with the talent that makes him immune to silence and the slow from last word makes him even better at right clicking enemies. The last version had an active last word which would make you stop auto attacking for 1 sec to cast and it makes a difference. I've had games where silencer mid just dominated if theres no heros that can jump him and burst him dow n in a stun. Divine/Low immortal bracket btw. Meanwhile when hes a support hes just non stop feeding lol. The hero has strengths and weaknesses such as everyone else.
Yet he also lacks the E which made him strong as a core in the first place so now your only real choice is to max glaives and that relies a lot on who you're playing against, also makes his ganks pretty dogshit. If he is viable as a mid it seems very situational.
Exactly, losing fights from silencer getting disarmed is more likely than him dropping the last word aoe.
I do think the stacking silence part to it is a cool game mechanic, it can transform a bad thing to a good thing, but maybe it could do more if the rest of his kit is weakened...? Maybe at 3 stacks of silence, the enemy becomes muted - it wouldn't last long at three stacks, but if you initiate with it, it could stop bkb, shadow blade escapes, etc
If it was an aoe damage to silenced heroes, and each hero with silence counted as stack itnwould be good. But yeah I dont see it like that either.
[удалено]
New ability for silencer. Silent jump. Silencer jumps 600 units In the direction he is facing, damaging the closest hero and slowing them.
*quietly jumps
If you play Monky King, Imagine you would disarm for a short duration after 4 jingu hits, and to get the damage you would need to lvl a second ability...
hard counters shamans innate, the silence when youre a chicken does dmg so he just dies instantly lol
I mean lots of stuff do 'counter' it lol. This is not really useful
Except not because ss is damage immune as a chicken for I think 0.75 seconds
thats not the entire time theyre a chicken and the aoe is 1200 units, so if silencer is near ss when he dies, he'll get the dmg tick
I wish we have the previous last word.
Bring back healing wave, star fall and rain of chaos. Bring back silence on hit.
It should be a debuff for when enemies use spells. Not a 2 sec silence like 10 years ago but something minor but additive similar to Curse. Every time an enemy uses a spell near Silencer it costs more mana or something
10/20/30/40% movement slow for 2 secs and 5/10/15/20% longer cd for spells used within 1000 radius to silencer, stacks diminishingly upto 5 times take that bristle
It’s a bit inelegant how Curse applies dot and a slow and the passive does the same thing. I really like the idea of an aura that affects silenced units though. It would be sick if his glaives bounced to silenced enemies near the target.
He is good late, but a complete shit on the lane. Glaves cost 20 mana for almost no damage, 1st spell maxed is 240 damage (+80 if ppl cast a spell), his passive literally doesn't work in lane till you get ulty.
Add 5, 10, 15, and 20% damage amps from Silencer to the targets effected by last word - e.g. silenced in 1200 aoe (Lower the base stack damage if you need to). Fixed. I think... In an ideal world (but still keeping with Valves recent design choice) I would also add an activatable aspect (that temporarily increases the damage amp to 100% for a short duration), and swap the movement slow for attack speed slows to punish jumping Silencer while silenced. Glad Valve took a shot at reworking Silencer, but I'm not convinced his press R gameplay has been disincentivised enough - in many ways its even more appealing e.g. Aghs refresher with the new reapplication facet.
This
It's decent on core silencer with attack speed It's crazy good if you have silence synergy - like having a death prophet on the team
I think it is pkay but I miss the old last word everytime I play him. Also feels weird that you mainly silence ppl with auto attacks now
Another thing I forgot to add is since I only have one skill to cast I don't have as many issues with mana in lane now lol
they really seem to want you to build Orchid MOM parasma Hurricane pike on this hero
Too bad he lost the aoe damage based on int difference, now as a core you just roleplay OD+Luna.
Even I don't understand these reworks and facets. Good or Broken heroes have become absolutely broken and okayish and situational heroes have become garbage. Silencer is a great example. Overall situational and bad earlier, but hot garbage now.
Well it's a bit complicated. I would argue that core silencer is much better now but support silencer is hot garbage. Regardless, this passive sucks on both but more so on support
His q is also terrible
Damage wise yes but it's great utility in a low cd spell combo breaker
Have you seen Wyverns ability? Wisdom rune gives 20% XP to others in your team. You really only have like 2 or 3 opportunities for this to happen in a game.
Wyvren's innate is quite strong the higher MMR you go where everyone fights for ruins. This is unfortunately not an innate but a passive that replaces an entire ability slot with little value for a support. It might even be better taking +8 all stats instead leveling up than putting some points in. Some key takeaways from the last week playing with and against core silencers is that last word would do 4k total hero damage at max in a 50 plus minute game. Thus a passive lacking behind in damage and utility compared to the old ability is garbanzo garbage
please revert last word. it’s so trash.
Silencer is just a core hero now. He's basically Int Drow. Who ironically pairs REALLY well with Drow on his team
Agreed. Somehow silencer now have fewer buttons than drow. Also it works only in 1200 radius around him. As int hero you don't actually want to be this close to enemy at all.
An Int hero that has an Orb attack doesn't want to be within 1200 range of the enemy? What? Silencer definitely does want to be within 1200 range. They may be squishy, but that's the offset the hero has to work with.
Yeah, so he didn't get jumped on, so he could fulfill his only purpose - give CC before he is inevitably dead.
You need to be in 900 range to take int when assist. Just saying ;)
Silencer chucks out good dps and has an option to make global not be instant countered by one dispel. He doesn't need more buffs to his kit. Adding anything else is just power creeping him, so I think the direction with him just being a silencing damage/support as his main strength is good enough. His new facet also forces teams to invest in way more defensive items and dispels which is super strong already. He's fine as-is with exception to maybe some damage tweaks.
As a silencer player, I think it’s fine.
Making it global could make it somewhat useful in the right comps
I'm surprised most people aren't catching on to why he has that passive. It's to get orchid as his first item. Silencer was always god awful at reactively silencing someone because of the delay on it. Now you silence someone for 5 seconds, dealing 40x5 with your Q, + 50x5 with your passive, which is +30% thanks to orchid, with a 40% slow, and then your Q keeps going for another 6 seconds, and oh wow there's 5 seconds left on the cooldown, time to do it again. Also, for the "why", it's because Orchid is trying to be balanced in this sort of "intelligence hero battlefury" way, where it's a great first item to get just for the stats alone but then it also lets you farm >!heroes!<
I don't disagree that Orchid makes this passive do a ton of dmg. But it's taking up an ability slot requiring an item to be effective. not to mention it's practically useless for a support role.
You should try playing him as a position 1 or 3. You'd be surprised how good at carrying he is when he has items. He still can't mid though, mana problems remain.
I think he slaps mid as long as he is not against obsequious decorator
He shouldn't. He's not a good last hitter so against most mids you should be getting denied even if you orb walk to harass, and then you have mana problems and no innate regen. And then you're also silencer so if anyone ever walks up to mid on the side that's not warded you are just instantly dead even if you run under tower.
Lvl ? pain.
Have you read pa's reworked passive?
It's should be a passive give 17% chance silenced when u cast a spell 900 range of silencer.
Remember when Razor had a passive that gave only himself a tiny bit more movement speed? As good as movement speed can be, I can appreciate any passive that does more than that
You stack silence debuffs by having Q enemy triggering, buying orchid and casting ult for that sweet sweet 200 DPS.
So far I've found Silencer to be fine at least at my scrub MMR. Not every hero can have every skill be really strong, if Enigma had Sniper's ult, he would be ass. The passive just gives you more for what you are already doing, you can often stack silences by using your spells unintentionally and the passive makes this less of a waste. Also worth noting that Silencer as a hero benefits a lot from slows, as he enjoys throwing glaives at people and running away from them.
can we now trigger last word not only on silenced target but also leashed,stunned,hexed enemy that would be better