Even the enemy was baffled. I wasn't sure whether I should cry or laugh. Our mid rubick got crushed, CK had nothing, the only lane we had going was this.... before that crap (we won in the end though lol)
Don't worry, WDs don't skill cask anymore, you just die from cancer caused by radiation he just emits while screamig "Feeling good maaaan". Meanwhile the lord of hell dies out of shame in the corner, with his shitty aura spell.
sure if u are a bad support and player they pick it, good wd 5s voodo festeration reason is you become undying in the lane that is ranged. they gotta burst you and even that is hard, i cant tell you how much ive singlehandedly WON my lane as 5 wd with this.
the cask one is shit, in low elo where ppl stack up sure.
Not to mention you are useful in teamfights when your ult is down or got broken becuse if you check cds and abilities you still gonna deal hefty amount of dmg if you get to survive the intitial brawl of the fight you more or less win it.
its a free radiance with RADIUS of 850 150 more than radiance wich is insane.
also it helps wd with what he is terrible at finding farm when no fight happens. he can stack clear x2 camps in really quick time with little cost. wich means getting blink aghs bkb blink shard as a 5 around 35min mark with his innate selling. IS not greedy or hard back before that was griefing becuse the time and mana it takes you to clear those camps. wich means you are not doing your job.
best way to abuse this is bully the living crap of their support and make sure all pulls go your way.
If you bully their 4 away or he goes low, turn it into a 2vs1 vs their offlane more often than not thats how i win the lane works like a charm.
JUST DO NOT 2vs1 fight them stay on outskirts and rightclick trade and shit know your range and their range of cc/abilities to keep you in place.
If you get ahead in lane later then you can basicly 2v1 them no im not kidding around lvl 5 1/3/1 you single handedly kill both or zone them.
The only ones that are really dangerous vs you are marci jump 100 to 0 comps.
There you just gotta wittle them down you will still win but you cannot snowball and its more of work to win the lane.
This facit is without of a doubt getting a nerf, dmg by 10 and radius by 100 atleast.
Voodoo festeration is best in lane, after that it drops quite a bit off in value as voodoo restoration is very strong for sustain and sieging, which you simple just lose out on since you won't be healing your teammates with the festeration facet. Will festeration receive a nerf? Very likely, yes. I just hope festeration specifically get touched, not restoration as a whole.
A value point in voodoo restoration (without the facet) is enough to win a lot of lanes due to being very good at trading + healing your pos 1. So unless your lane is very hard (aka you need an absolute lane dominator instead of a very strong laner), going for restoration instead of festeration is overall the better move. This is simply because the amount of utility you get from healing the living shit out of your teammates is just insanely valuable.
I play a good chunk of WD at a low immortal level, even before facets my style of WD wasn't the stereotypical rush aghs one. Pre-facet I always had a value point in voodoo restoration for trading in lane (even maxed it way back when it did both healing and damage). Build wise it's very rarely aghs - often things like solar, force, glimmer, locket, greaves, vlads and sometimes pipe, rarely bkb and aghs (only if the team really needs damage instead of sustain/utility).
well you are right you lose out on healing wich is big thing is you kinda secure almost 100% dumpstering the lane many players dont know how to play with this. they position themselves way to far back instead of playing kinda like an undying.
you wanna get hit due to it heals yourself.
but its finicky becuse you are not as tanky as undying. but you deal more damage.
on seiging and tradeoff is you wont have heals for siege that is right but as a wd you dont wanna be shown either.
the orginal one you dont wanna be shown you are just like a shaker, that wanan count cd/stuns etc throw cask if possible you dont wanna stand in the mist of the fight or get gone on.
thats why orginal one is kinda bad. also worth noting is that the dmg still ticks when you use shard.
And items yes there are games where you cant go straight aghs and bkb etc.
like you said above, reason and games you wanna go aghs and bkb is becuse its often teamfight winning ult.
wd is a greedy support always have been not playing to his whole purpose wich is damage is a big no no.
Sure somtimes u gotta adapt like you say, but then you might aswell picked somthing else.
that does the job better. ie WV,oracle,undying,abba. if save/heal being in the mist of the fight instead of being the last one in the mist of the fight and saving ppl.
And yes ofcourse you will get gone on and ppl will search for you so ghost/glimmer is also core. those games.
But yeah dota is complicated and hard to say x without knowing X your lane m8 what team partners and abilities you have mid/lategame and what you are vs.
im yet to see any wd play him properly as 5 or 4 with festeration yet most dont know how far and often they even manages to push wave with it.
> on seiging and tradeoff is you wont have heals for siege that is right but as a wd you dont wanna be shown either.
If you build around it, you really don't mind showing at all when sieging - you're a pretty hard to kill hero with utility items + shard. When you play WD in this sense, you don't need the moment of surprise for a good ult, because it's not what it's about at that point. You use your ult when there's a good chance to use it, otherwise you're literally being a sustain machine that doesn't mind being gone on.
> that does the job better. ie WV,oracle,undying,abba. if save/heal being in the mist of the fight instead of being the last one in the mist of the fight and saving ppl.
None of the heroes you mentioned for healing during sieging does it as well as WD does in terms of aoe sustain. And you're still WD with a deadly ult you can punish hard with at the right moments - none of the heroes you mentioned, apart from WW can do that - and WW ult can grief teammfights hard if you missuse it. Abaddon can arguably do aoe healing better with aghs, but that's more burst healing than siege kind of sustain where you just continously heal abilities enemy heroes throw over time. Me, as a dude that loves undying - he's a great BURST healer, among the best in the game, in fact, but he can't heal anywhere near as much as WD when it comes to aoe sustain.
yea, that's why I also doubt it's Doom, but he's the only hero I could associate with lord of hell.
Pit Lord, perhaps? But again, I don't see any nerf.
i thought doom's doesn't heal from a few patches ago? And it's always been has a CD since it's an active skill? Why it's shitty? It's been strong ms buff and pot/bottle regen for a while
Mid Lane: Bottle, Null Tali, Arcane Boots, Pavise, Bloodstone, Radi, Kaya+Yasha, Shiva, Eternal Shroud.
As soon as you hit level 25, you drain even more damage based on targets max HP.
Your weak point is just before getting radi and after bloodstone, you're still squishy, but you can farm multiple camps with bloodstone AoE
After Shiva+Eternal Shroud, walk into the enemy team and laugh as they try and kill you (Unless they have OD or AA)
> Don't worry, WDs don't skill cask anymore, you just die from cancer caused by radiation he just emits while screamig "Feeling good maaaan".
I *wish*. Oh, the team is both super tanky and ranged? Then yeah, max the skill that won't touch them or they'll just regen through while they eat our carry in lane :/
I don’t think that’s true. I don’t see any evidence in the ability description or the wiki to suggest paralyzing cask prioritizes heroes. Can you show me a source on that?
so... u dont know this but.... when u put minimap on right side, this is way of telling valve and gaben u r not real dota player, so then RNG jesus wont be on ur side, its all ur fault tbh all them bounces, its all on u dude
There's a console command to add a time threshold to the minimap clicking so this doesn't happen to you. I set it once a million years ago and it still works
Nah, you put the minimap on the right side so you don't accidentally click on it while running back down lane and fuck with pathing. Right-minimap is the way.
It's better to just not have the minimap there taking up space in the first place. Even with that option set, clicking on the minimap still eats you click, and you won't move where you want to.
Lich main here lvl 28 atm. This happens but rarely. Thats why you play him for 15 years stright. Key is to go Q dmg talant at 10 and kill mobs before casting.
Edit: rewatched and you used Q on a hero. If you Q the creeps you could have gotten a double kill.
It blows my mind that everyone doesn't take the Frost Blast damage talent on 10. It's *absurdly* better than 10% more damage reduction in every case I can think of that isn't slapping a Frost Shield on a tower to slow down a push, but untalented Shield is already extremely effective at doing that.
10% more damage reduction changes it from taking 40% to 30% which is 25%less damage taken compared to no talent.
I'd say that your argument is questionable
Indeed, I had a game not long ago which was going horribly (like it usually does). But the last two team fights we managed to group up properly and if I got the frost shield of on Leshrac we would win. The game almost entirely depended on the frost shield. They had massive damage on their team so multiple times they blew up Leshrac before he could utilize bloodstone regen but 70% damage reduction made him survive the damage and become unkillable. I managed to stay alive long enough and got the frost shield off properly, we won the game.
Frostshield is incredibly strong. Especially with the facet that makes it last longer.
yes, but the 10% talent changes it from 0% to 0% in the case of a spell caster (70% of the meta picks this patch)
So its kind of completely irrelevant. Its definitely nice vs a right clicker.
Also it can be dispelled. So its made that much less good as come midgame the other core will either likely have a dispel for it, or will simply obliterate the lich before he can cast the ability on anyone,.
Frost damage talent is just better by definition of frost shields fundamental shortcomings.
Except you're entirely ignoring the fact that Armor exists and mitigates physical damage in a multiplicative way with Frost Shield.
What you are describing is the **best case scenario** when arguing the efficacy for damage reduction, and it's reliant on having basically zero physical resistance in the first place. Against high armor pen line ups there may be some validity here, but you're still only mitigating their effectively true damage on a single target, and it's dispellable.
The other big thing you're ignoring is the Attack Slow from the Frost Blast AOE, which will mitigate more damage than the additional 10% reduction if it happens to hit a single other physical damage dealer that it wouldn't have without the talent. 150 radius more than double the size of Frost Blast iirc.
It's also worth knowing that Frost Shield exclusively provides damage reduction from "hero based attack damage"... according to dota wiki it doesn't reduce damage from creeps, illusions, clones, creep-heroes or buildings. With that in mind plus the amount of spell damage flying around vs the actual amount of damage coming from right click carries in teamfights... it really does feel like it should be more situational than the talent's pick rate at higher MMRs implies, unless I'm missing something? Like sure, if the enemy team has tons of right clickers I'll pick it but how often does that happen these days?
Yeah. I mean, I didn't really intend to shit on him. But when I watched the clip, my eyes were drawn to the lich walking on top of an Ursa; rather than the ult bouncing in an unlucky manner. haha.
Absolutely this should be top comment lol.
It was the first thing I noticed, I was like "is he chasing his ult because there's some bug with Lich or something". Title made it sound like the hero Lich was the problem. But honestly other than an unlucky ult the problem seems entirely self-made.
I have played a lot of litch lately, and it truly feels like it targets creeps over heroes no matter the distance a hero can be standing right next to the ult, it would still pick the creep
Might have at one point. I skimmed through the changelogs and couldn't find such a change, but I could have just missed it, or it wasn't documented properly.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/11wh92y/best\_rng\_i\_had\_in\_a\_while/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/11wh92y/best_rng_i_had_in_a_while/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
old clip of mine but its the complete opposite of yours lol
That's some pretty bad tunnel vision and unlucky bounces. You shouldn't be overextending to try to catch the phoenix when the ursa is right on top of you.
Well, having ursa on the side and bristle running i to him to die, my only option was to keep going foward and let the chainfrost kill ursa.. if I turn back ursa just kills me and runs right with no chance for the chainfrost to hit him.
...but ofc it hit the single catapult every second bounce.
tbh with the abhorrent amount of stat/strength/MR creep in the game, Chain frost struggles to kill even supports come mid game.
And i say this as someone who used to play lich a lot. Lich is good at doing a little trolling now and thats about it. He wrecks lane, and annoys you afterwards. Thats about it.
That's a very different spell, why even bother comparing it? Chain frost is extremely powerful, but they balanced it by preventing you from yeeting it into a creep wave.
Death ward doesn't bounce without aghs. Witch Doctor also makes himself vulnerable while using it, and since he can't chase, you can simply run away. Lich meanwhile can fire and forget his ult, and continue to CC you while it's flying. You can run away from chain frost, but you have to be very careful about how you do it, and it's more difficult since it applies a big slow. They're different in almost every way. Besides, once you get to the point of them being "teamfight ults" (like, by the time Witch Doctor actually has an aghs), creeps don't factor into it that much anymore. Prioritizing heroes would make chain frost broken in the early game when there are single heroes farming creep waves.
In which case it's absurd to compare it with Death Ward, since their only point in commonality is Death Ward's aghs functionality. Which isn't even the same; Death Ward bounces to the nearest target, it isn't random at all. Nor does it run out of bounces, and it can't hit the same target twice.
Level 1 Chain frost does 1800 damage over 5 bounces to a single target. That's close to the 1920 damage that Snapfire would deal if she landed every single glob of her ult on a stationary target. If there's a single hero in a creep wave, lob the ult and they're dead from full health. You can even target a creep first to extend the cast range (which deals slightly more damage).
That was very unfortunate but you shouldn’t give up on the hero!
Lich is very strong when you obtain the shard. You will be able to cast your second spell on the spike, then hitting enemy with your 1st and 3rd spells while having the ult bounce between spike and the enemy. I had a lot of games where enemy team had cores unable to escape that combo. Lich is also very strong through the game since he is able to focus on building the team items rather than trying to get items to upkeep his mana.
It's not 100% skill, there is at least a little bad luck here. But I do feel like I'm taking crazy pills in this thread. I'm a 2k shitter and OP is clearly thirsty to cast the ult after it's already too late and then dies for no reason afterwards.
Yes I did walk up to Ursa next to my low hp core under our tower, and I don't see anything wrong with that (also had a full stick). It did bait him back under the tower also bristle lived (before runnig back to die) and you can not tell me it's unreasonable to expect ONE bounce on ursa or phoenix especially in the befgining or the end when there 3 available targets and 2 is them.
It's pretty unreasonable to expect a bounce to ursa considering how far away they were when the ult was cast. Even if the creep wave hadn't been coming, they would have separated just like they did and only take one hit each.
Yeah idk what everyone is crying about lol. That's a wasted ult. Would have been pure luck to get a kill there unless he rlly big brain planned to bounce it off the wave lol and even then, still luck.
I can't tell if this is the facet that adds bounces when it kills a creep.
If it's not, it always feel like you want the facet you didn't pick when you play Lich.
I have experienced the same rng as well
I feel like after update they made lich ult prioritize creep 70% over hero's, I do not pick him anymore after that
Lich is fucking epic! Got ganked placing wards/dewarding, drop shield, two frosts blasts and then the chain before I die: triple kill because the creep deaths kept adding the bounces.
Seems like of the 7 times it could have bounced to ursa, it had 5, 5, 4, 4, 4, 2, and 4 possible targets. About 10% chance it never picks ursa there, so definitely unlucky but not crazy.
I am baffled by how it went to the stupid amount magic resist catapult ON EVERY BOUNCE. if it bounced to anything but that or once to ursa everything dies...
I had a full stick and I wanted to bait him under the tower, while taking his focus off of bristle who had lots of fury stack and low hp. Sadly phoenix kept his distance, and then the creepwave came and I got scammed ( :
Also the other lanes were going horribly, and I felt we had to try some crazy shit.
Why thank you. I really apreciate that!
(also it was a normal game and I was just baiting ursa for lols, at the end I was hoping for JUST ONE BOUNCE on Ursa or phoenix and it's a double kill, but I know everyone is 14k here)
So lich is one of my top 3 most played heroes (I'm one of those people that "plays" like 30 heroes but I've amassed over 200 ranked games on him and at least double that in private and tournament lobbies in my 12 years of playing)- chain frost is most reliably used as a single hit nuke. Don't think of it as a spell with this massive team fight potential, think of it as a 200 damage nuke. If you used it on ursa shortly after you pulled, I'm fairly certain he dies or at least has to leave and you don't die. Also for the record I recommend taking the 2nd facet (the one that gives you an extra bounce if you kill a creep). The only time you should think of it as a spell with the massive upwards potential that is has is when you have shard and there is an enemy alone.
barely related but also can they fix ursa aghs? you can't cast it during lich gaze
you can cast it during dismember or fiends grip or fucking chrono, but not lich gaze
I think you can cast it during duel too, so not a taunt thing I think, not that gaze is a taunt either since you can't attack during it
You can't cast it during duel, because duel is not only taunt, but also silence. You can use enrage in taunt, if it's axe for example. Sinister gaze is not taunt, It's fear mechanic, same with dark willow ulti and sf ulti and fear is always silence, so you can't use enrage. Lich's skill is a little weird, because unlike other sources of fear, it does not send enemy to the base, but attracts him to himself. I think this was done because only fear and taunt can slowly move the enemy, and taunt means you can attack in it, so only fear was left.
sometimes its better to not use the pillar if there are bounce targets there
you wasted like over half the bounces on the pillar which did nothing for you, and the rest went on creeps lmao
I've seen a lot. I do believe this is worse than anything I've ever witnessed first hand in a game. (20k hours dota1/hon/dota2).
Even the enemy was baffled. I wasn't sure whether I should cry or laugh. Our mid rubick got crushed, CK had nothing, the only lane we had going was this.... before that crap (we won in the end though lol)
so it was all CALCULATED
If this was witch doctor’s cask and I was the Ursa, it would have bounced back to me every time. That shit has it out for me.
Don't worry, WDs don't skill cask anymore, you just die from cancer caused by radiation he just emits while screamig "Feeling good maaaan". Meanwhile the lord of hell dies out of shame in the corner, with his shitty aura spell.
I actually see more WDs picking the head hunter facet than the damage aoe one. Presumably because they know that spell wants me dead.
Oh good for you I guess... Trying to trade with that shit on lane as a 5 is a nightmare.
I thought he was talking about maledict
sure if u are a bad support and player they pick it, good wd 5s voodo festeration reason is you become undying in the lane that is ranged. they gotta burst you and even that is hard, i cant tell you how much ive singlehandedly WON my lane as 5 wd with this. the cask one is shit, in low elo where ppl stack up sure. Not to mention you are useful in teamfights when your ult is down or got broken becuse if you check cds and abilities you still gonna deal hefty amount of dmg if you get to survive the intitial brawl of the fight you more or less win it. its a free radiance with RADIUS of 850 150 more than radiance wich is insane. also it helps wd with what he is terrible at finding farm when no fight happens. he can stack clear x2 camps in really quick time with little cost. wich means getting blink aghs bkb blink shard as a 5 around 35min mark with his innate selling. IS not greedy or hard back before that was griefing becuse the time and mana it takes you to clear those camps. wich means you are not doing your job. best way to abuse this is bully the living crap of their support and make sure all pulls go your way. If you bully their 4 away or he goes low, turn it into a 2vs1 vs their offlane more often than not thats how i win the lane works like a charm. JUST DO NOT 2vs1 fight them stay on outskirts and rightclick trade and shit know your range and their range of cc/abilities to keep you in place. If you get ahead in lane later then you can basicly 2v1 them no im not kidding around lvl 5 1/3/1 you single handedly kill both or zone them. The only ones that are really dangerous vs you are marci jump 100 to 0 comps. There you just gotta wittle them down you will still win but you cannot snowball and its more of work to win the lane. This facit is without of a doubt getting a nerf, dmg by 10 and radius by 100 atleast.
Voodoo festeration is best in lane, after that it drops quite a bit off in value as voodoo restoration is very strong for sustain and sieging, which you simple just lose out on since you won't be healing your teammates with the festeration facet. Will festeration receive a nerf? Very likely, yes. I just hope festeration specifically get touched, not restoration as a whole. A value point in voodoo restoration (without the facet) is enough to win a lot of lanes due to being very good at trading + healing your pos 1. So unless your lane is very hard (aka you need an absolute lane dominator instead of a very strong laner), going for restoration instead of festeration is overall the better move. This is simply because the amount of utility you get from healing the living shit out of your teammates is just insanely valuable. I play a good chunk of WD at a low immortal level, even before facets my style of WD wasn't the stereotypical rush aghs one. Pre-facet I always had a value point in voodoo restoration for trading in lane (even maxed it way back when it did both healing and damage). Build wise it's very rarely aghs - often things like solar, force, glimmer, locket, greaves, vlads and sometimes pipe, rarely bkb and aghs (only if the team really needs damage instead of sustain/utility).
well you are right you lose out on healing wich is big thing is you kinda secure almost 100% dumpstering the lane many players dont know how to play with this. they position themselves way to far back instead of playing kinda like an undying. you wanna get hit due to it heals yourself. but its finicky becuse you are not as tanky as undying. but you deal more damage. on seiging and tradeoff is you wont have heals for siege that is right but as a wd you dont wanna be shown either. the orginal one you dont wanna be shown you are just like a shaker, that wanan count cd/stuns etc throw cask if possible you dont wanna stand in the mist of the fight or get gone on. thats why orginal one is kinda bad. also worth noting is that the dmg still ticks when you use shard. And items yes there are games where you cant go straight aghs and bkb etc. like you said above, reason and games you wanna go aghs and bkb is becuse its often teamfight winning ult. wd is a greedy support always have been not playing to his whole purpose wich is damage is a big no no. Sure somtimes u gotta adapt like you say, but then you might aswell picked somthing else. that does the job better. ie WV,oracle,undying,abba. if save/heal being in the mist of the fight instead of being the last one in the mist of the fight and saving ppl. And yes ofcourse you will get gone on and ppl will search for you so ghost/glimmer is also core. those games. But yeah dota is complicated and hard to say x without knowing X your lane m8 what team partners and abilities you have mid/lategame and what you are vs. im yet to see any wd play him properly as 5 or 4 with festeration yet most dont know how far and often they even manages to push wave with it.
> on seiging and tradeoff is you wont have heals for siege that is right but as a wd you dont wanna be shown either. If you build around it, you really don't mind showing at all when sieging - you're a pretty hard to kill hero with utility items + shard. When you play WD in this sense, you don't need the moment of surprise for a good ult, because it's not what it's about at that point. You use your ult when there's a good chance to use it, otherwise you're literally being a sustain machine that doesn't mind being gone on. > that does the job better. ie WV,oracle,undying,abba. if save/heal being in the mist of the fight instead of being the last one in the mist of the fight and saving ppl. None of the heroes you mentioned for healing during sieging does it as well as WD does in terms of aoe sustain. And you're still WD with a deadly ult you can punish hard with at the right moments - none of the heroes you mentioned, apart from WW can do that - and WW ult can grief teammfights hard if you missuse it. Abaddon can arguably do aoe healing better with aghs, but that's more burst healing than siege kind of sustain where you just continously heal abilities enemy heroes throw over time. Me, as a dude that loves undying - he's a great BURST healer, among the best in the game, in fact, but he can't heal anywhere near as much as WD when it comes to aoe sustain.
Are you referring to Necrophos as having the shitty aura spell?
Should be Doom, but I didn't see why the aura is shitty
And his is not a permanent or toggable aura. Has a durarion and cd so I got confused.
yea, that's why I also doubt it's Doom, but he's the only hero I could associate with lord of hell. Pit Lord, perhaps? But again, I don't see any nerf.
Doom's has a CD, and doesn't heal anymore
i thought doom's doesn't heal from a few patches ago? And it's always been has a CD since it's an active skill? Why it's shitty? It's been strong ms buff and pot/bottle regen for a while
It's not really bad, it's just WD's is absurd in comparison imo
It’s so strong in lane but feels so bad after. I played a lot of WD but haven’t figured out how to play him right in this meta
You gotta press r more
Mid Lane: Bottle, Null Tali, Arcane Boots, Pavise, Bloodstone, Radi, Kaya+Yasha, Shiva, Eternal Shroud. As soon as you hit level 25, you drain even more damage based on targets max HP. Your weak point is just before getting radi and after bloodstone, you're still squishy, but you can farm multiple camps with bloodstone AoE After Shiva+Eternal Shroud, walk into the enemy team and laugh as they try and kill you (Unless they have OD or AA)
Holy locket into mek, press W, walk in, feel good mon
Amazing
Wait, is the damage facet instead of healing viable? Seemed like a waste of a facet and a skill
> Don't worry, WDs don't skill cask anymore, you just die from cancer caused by radiation he just emits while screamig "Feeling good maaaan". I *wish*. Oh, the team is both super tanky and ranged? Then yeah, max the skill that won't touch them or they'll just regen through while they eat our carry in lane :/
All fun and games till u meet Pudge
Witch doctor cask focuses heroes more in the code though, lich ult is true random.
I don’t think that’s true. I don’t see any evidence in the ability description or the wiki to suggest paralyzing cask prioritizes heroes. Can you show me a source on that?
Source: *'Just trust me, bro"*
Lich ult is a farming spell. Always remember that.
The one facet almost guarantees that it'll clear any wave completely too
Almost
so... u dont know this but.... when u put minimap on right side, this is way of telling valve and gaben u r not real dota player, so then RNG jesus wont be on ur side, its all ur fault tbh all them bounces, its all on u dude
But if I put it on the left my monke brain clicks on it when I try to run away :'(
Thats why I always run towards the enemies, always be two steps a head.
Respawns faster this way. Can confirm based on personal experience
There's a console command to add a time threshold to the minimap clicking so this doesn't happen to you. I set it once a million years ago and it still works
i think that is just somewhere in the options, don't think you need to do it through console anymore
Camera grip with middle mouse button. Takes a bit getting used to but it's SO MUCH BETTER.
I only use that, I don't edge pan, still clicked minimap before switching
Nah, you put the minimap on the right side so you don't accidentally click on it while running back down lane and fuck with pathing. Right-minimap is the way.
I believe there is an option that right clicks doesn’t work on minimap.
you can define a grace period after hovering over the minimap during which right clicking does nothing
Heh, I'm used to my right-side minimap at this point. Rage changed it like 5 years ago. Thanks for the tip though!
It's better to just not have the minimap there taking up space in the first place. Even with that option set, clicking on the minimap still eats you click, and you won't move where you want to.
Been playing on and off for almost if not 20 years now so not having the map there feels wrong lol.
It'll feel wrong for like a week at most and then you'll be used to it.
I WAS WONDERING WHY IT FELT OFF! Thank you for pointing this out!
I guess lich isn’t for everyone
Lich main here lvl 28 atm. This happens but rarely. Thats why you play him for 15 years stright. Key is to go Q dmg talant at 10 and kill mobs before casting. Edit: rewatched and you used Q on a hero. If you Q the creeps you could have gotten a double kill.
It blows my mind that everyone doesn't take the Frost Blast damage talent on 10. It's *absurdly* better than 10% more damage reduction in every case I can think of that isn't slapping a Frost Shield on a tower to slow down a push, but untalented Shield is already extremely effective at doing that.
10% more damage reduction changes it from taking 40% to 30% which is 25%less damage taken compared to no talent. I'd say that your argument is questionable
Indeed, I had a game not long ago which was going horribly (like it usually does). But the last two team fights we managed to group up properly and if I got the frost shield of on Leshrac we would win. The game almost entirely depended on the frost shield. They had massive damage on their team so multiple times they blew up Leshrac before he could utilize bloodstone regen but 70% damage reduction made him survive the damage and become unkillable. I managed to stay alive long enough and got the frost shield off properly, we won the game. Frostshield is incredibly strong. Especially with the facet that makes it last longer.
At 10 it is a huge boost for mid game
I think you can just continue levelling other spells, and get %10 reduction at lvl 13-14
yes, but the 10% talent changes it from 0% to 0% in the case of a spell caster (70% of the meta picks this patch) So its kind of completely irrelevant. Its definitely nice vs a right clicker. Also it can be dispelled. So its made that much less good as come midgame the other core will either likely have a dispel for it, or will simply obliterate the lich before he can cast the ability on anyone,. Frost damage talent is just better by definition of frost shields fundamental shortcomings.
Except you're entirely ignoring the fact that Armor exists and mitigates physical damage in a multiplicative way with Frost Shield. What you are describing is the **best case scenario** when arguing the efficacy for damage reduction, and it's reliant on having basically zero physical resistance in the first place. Against high armor pen line ups there may be some validity here, but you're still only mitigating their effectively true damage on a single target, and it's dispellable. The other big thing you're ignoring is the Attack Slow from the Frost Blast AOE, which will mitigate more damage than the additional 10% reduction if it happens to hit a single other physical damage dealer that it wouldn't have without the talent. 150 radius more than double the size of Frost Blast iirc.
It's also worth knowing that Frost Shield exclusively provides damage reduction from "hero based attack damage"... according to dota wiki it doesn't reduce damage from creeps, illusions, clones, creep-heroes or buildings. With that in mind plus the amount of spell damage flying around vs the actual amount of damage coming from right click carries in teamfights... it really does feel like it should be more situational than the talent's pick rate at higher MMRs implies, unless I'm missing something? Like sure, if the enemy team has tons of right clickers I'll pick it but how often does that happen these days?
Oh neat. Getting into Lich recently because im a sucker for snow and ice and that is some cool tech!
mind=blown
You did kind of walk on top of an Ursa a few separate times here. >.>
Yeah the positioning was a bit poor, he might not get the kill, but a better positioning wouldn't kill him here.
Yeah. I mean, I didn't really intend to shit on him. But when I watched the clip, my eyes were drawn to the lich walking on top of an Ursa; rather than the ult bouncing in an unlucky manner. haha.
I think the bigger problem was he kept trying to autoattack him for no reason while he had the phonex debuff on him too
Absolutely this should be top comment lol. It was the first thing I noticed, I was like "is he chasing his ult because there's some bug with Lich or something". Title made it sound like the hero Lich was the problem. But honestly other than an unlucky ult the problem seems entirely self-made.
Skill issue tbh 🤷♂️
Sorry if this is a dumb question, why can't we see your abilities and items in this video?
replay bug. most likely he didnt reselect the hero before clicking on something else but had selected player perspective so it forced lich's pov
wait, you're right. what the hell. No idea.
I've noticed it on a few videos today, I thought maybe it was some HUD I'm not familiar with. Probably a bug
Defenetly a bug. I have the anniversary HUD on I believe.
Thats a W in my book. Wave cleared, tower defended. Good job
sometimes its RNG, and sometimes you just playing bad
Oh I am bad, but still fuck those bounces.
haha, i was talking about myself even with refresh i did shit
You need to practice your bounces more, that's skill issue.
100%, but dota is too stressful for me nowdays, so i try to play less and less and just watch some people playing like the pros
Reminds me of the scene in pulp fiction where they guy fires a whole clip and misses every shot.
feel your pain brother
I have played a lot of litch lately, and it truly feels like it targets creeps over heroes no matter the distance a hero can be standing right next to the ult, it would still pick the creep
Lich ulti should work as after a creep hit there's guaranteed hero bounce, his ulti is too unreliable even if it deals high damage.
Or it should guarantee kill any lane creep, like Mirana Arrow or Pudge Hook.
It used to do that once, didn't it?
That was Omnislash, iirc.
You're probably right
Might have at one point. I skimmed through the changelogs and couldn't find such a change, but I could have just missed it, or it wasn't documented properly.
That's actually really good idea, would also allow lich to secure some creep gold in teamfights.
I think it should prioritize heros affected by sinister gaze
it should prioritize heroes regardless
[Same Energy](https://makeagif.com/gif/pulp-fiction-divine-intervention-scene-Ftp-fL)
Do they put heroin in the sound effects or something? Every time I hear a clip I want to play and scream obscenities on coms.
lol
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/11wh92y/best\_rng\_i\_had\_in\_a\_while/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/11wh92y/best_rng_i_had_in_a_while/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) old clip of mine but its the complete opposite of yours lol
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That's some pretty bad tunnel vision and unlucky bounces. You shouldn't be overextending to try to catch the phoenix when the ursa is right on top of you.
Well, having ursa on the side and bristle running i to him to die, my only option was to keep going foward and let the chainfrost kill ursa.. if I turn back ursa just kills me and runs right with no chance for the chainfrost to hit him. ...but ofc it hit the single catapult every second bounce.
Nah, you're thinking about when you were outside tower range, your overextension happened even earlier than that.
To be clear, the overextension was right after you used sinister gaze at the start of the vid. You didnt need to walk that far up
Bouncing on the same creep over and over again.... That's actually making my luck look good
Yeah, fuck those siege creeps, man! And this one in particular!
For the life of me I've never understand why they don't make chain frost prioritize heroes.
It'd be way too good if it did. Chain frost someone in a creep wave and they always die.
tbh with the abhorrent amount of stat/strength/MR creep in the game, Chain frost struggles to kill even supports come mid game. And i say this as someone who used to play lich a lot. Lich is good at doing a little trolling now and thats about it. He wrecks lane, and annoys you afterwards. Thats about it.
But we can select target with death ward
That's a very different spell, why even bother comparing it? Chain frost is extremely powerful, but they balanced it by preventing you from yeeting it into a creep wave.
They are both big damage teamfight ults that bounce between enemies
Death ward doesn't bounce without aghs. Witch Doctor also makes himself vulnerable while using it, and since he can't chase, you can simply run away. Lich meanwhile can fire and forget his ult, and continue to CC you while it's flying. You can run away from chain frost, but you have to be very careful about how you do it, and it's more difficult since it applies a big slow. They're different in almost every way. Besides, once you get to the point of them being "teamfight ults" (like, by the time Witch Doctor actually has an aghs), creeps don't factor into it that much anymore. Prioritizing heroes would make chain frost broken in the early game when there are single heroes farming creep waves.
The early game is the only time the ult is even usable, it's totally ignored late game
In which case it's absurd to compare it with Death Ward, since their only point in commonality is Death Ward's aghs functionality. Which isn't even the same; Death Ward bounces to the nearest target, it isn't random at all. Nor does it run out of bounces, and it can't hit the same target twice.
Doesn't seem over the top to me. There are a lot of ults in the game where you mostly just die when they hit.
Level 1 Chain frost does 1800 damage over 5 bounces to a single target. That's close to the 1920 damage that Snapfire would deal if she landed every single glob of her ult on a stationary target. If there's a single hero in a creep wave, lob the ult and they're dead from full health. You can even target a creep first to extend the cast range (which deals slightly more damage).
That was very unfortunate but you shouldn’t give up on the hero! Lich is very strong when you obtain the shard. You will be able to cast your second spell on the spike, then hitting enemy with your 1st and 3rd spells while having the ult bounce between spike and the enemy. I had a lot of games where enemy team had cores unable to escape that combo. Lich is also very strong through the game since he is able to focus on building the team items rather than trying to get items to upkeep his mana.
Oh shield and gaze are ridiculous, I'm not gonna stop playing lich (also we won somehow in the end, lol)
This is 100% a skill issue. You walked up to closer than melee range to an ursa...as lich, and then threw your ult as the next creep wave was coming.
It's not 100% skill, there is at least a little bad luck here. But I do feel like I'm taking crazy pills in this thread. I'm a 2k shitter and OP is clearly thirsty to cast the ult after it's already too late and then dies for no reason afterwards.
Yes I did walk up to Ursa next to my low hp core under our tower, and I don't see anything wrong with that (also had a full stick). It did bait him back under the tower also bristle lived (before runnig back to die) and you can not tell me it's unreasonable to expect ONE bounce on ursa or phoenix especially in the befgining or the end when there 3 available targets and 2 is them.
It's pretty unreasonable to expect a bounce to ursa considering how far away they were when the ult was cast. Even if the creep wave hadn't been coming, they would have separated just like they did and only take one hit each.
I have to agree. I know you wanted to secure the kill, but creep waves will ruin your ult every time lol. That being said, that was very unfortunate!
Yeah idk what everyone is crying about lol. That's a wasted ult. Would have been pure luck to get a kill there unless he rlly big brain planned to bounce it off the wave lol and even then, still luck.
Dat CM teammate griefing though smh
gaben has spoken
I can't tell if this is the facet that adds bounces when it kills a creep. If it's not, it always feel like you want the facet you didn't pick when you play Lich.
It is lol
Lich is my favorite. If you were a better player the bounces would have netted a triple kill!
wow just wow id be so salty
I have experienced the same rng as well I feel like after update they made lich ult prioritize creep 70% over hero's, I do not pick him anymore after that
Since you chased for a kill with 15% hp I can see you are archon V. 2900 mmr.
How dare you assume I have a rank?
Skill issue
Lich is fucking epic! Got ganked placing wards/dewarding, drop shield, two frosts blasts and then the chain before I die: triple kill because the creep deaths kept adding the bounces.
“Can’t we get rid of RNG wide AOE abilities!?” Yeah… pretty much…
You should've bought a gaming chair and this won't happen
but muh office chair is so comfy
thats a kekw
I'd be pissed too.
Thats so rough omg
Me report lich and send to low prio?
Seems like of the 7 times it could have bounced to ursa, it had 5, 5, 4, 4, 4, 2, and 4 possible targets. About 10% chance it never picks ursa there, so definitely unlucky but not crazy.
I am baffled by how it went to the stupid amount magic resist catapult ON EVERY BOUNCE. if it bounced to anything but that or once to ursa everything dies...
Good point, that makes it way more unlucky. Too difficult to estimate but definitely in the realm of "the universe actually just hates me"
Why you frontlining as a lich? You are asking for the Ursa to eat u alive.
I had a full stick and I wanted to bait him under the tower, while taking his focus off of bristle who had lots of fury stack and low hp. Sadly phoenix kept his distance, and then the creepwave came and I got scammed ( : Also the other lanes were going horribly, and I felt we had to try some crazy shit.
Alright - fair enough.
Skill issue
your positioning and movement is hot garbage
Why thank you. I really apreciate that! (also it was a normal game and I was just baiting ursa for lols, at the end I was hoping for JUST ONE BOUNCE on Ursa or phoenix and it's a double kill, but I know everyone is 14k here)
So lich is one of my top 3 most played heroes (I'm one of those people that "plays" like 30 heroes but I've amassed over 200 ranked games on him and at least double that in private and tournament lobbies in my 12 years of playing)- chain frost is most reliably used as a single hit nuke. Don't think of it as a spell with this massive team fight potential, think of it as a 200 damage nuke. If you used it on ursa shortly after you pulled, I'm fairly certain he dies or at least has to leave and you don't die. Also for the record I recommend taking the 2nd facet (the one that gives you an extra bounce if you kill a creep). The only time you should think of it as a spell with the massive upwards potential that is has is when you have shard and there is an enemy alone.
I did have the 2nd facet :/
You are insanely bad.
barely related but also can they fix ursa aghs? you can't cast it during lich gaze you can cast it during dismember or fiends grip or fucking chrono, but not lich gaze I think you can cast it during duel too, so not a taunt thing I think, not that gaze is a taunt either since you can't attack during it
It's just a low CD single target blackhole disguised as a normal abilty, don't worry about it... :horse:
You can't cast it during duel, because duel is not only taunt, but also silence. You can use enrage in taunt, if it's axe for example. Sinister gaze is not taunt, It's fear mechanic, same with dark willow ulti and sf ulti and fear is always silence, so you can't use enrage. Lich's skill is a little weird, because unlike other sources of fear, it does not send enemy to the base, but attracts him to himself. I think this was done because only fear and taunt can slowly move the enemy, and taunt means you can attack in it, so only fear was left.
What if: I wanted a triple kill with Frost Orb But RNGesus said: No
Ask Luna. I think her base ult always prioritizes creeps before heroes. Feels really bad
sometimes its better to not use the pillar if there are bounce targets there you wasted like over half the bounces on the pillar which did nothing for you, and the rest went on creeps lmao
Pillar? It's like 10 minutes in
hmm even worse than i thought then
Yes it's fun, this clip is luck related. How is the title relevant ?
It's a joke ?
Are you new to the internet or humor in general while we're at it?