Even though it’s kind of sketchy with the game logic, my pawn is the only character I actually felt bonded to in any way. The NPCs who were supposed to be the actual “beloved” options just felt like weirdos with rosacea who kept showing up at my house
*"Master, you are an open book. You have longed for my company, haven't you? Well here I am."*
*"Our master cuts a gallant figure in the throes of battle, but is no less striking here, in the campfire's glow."*
*"I should like to remain here for all time - assuming you're here as well, Master."*
*"I hope this bond we have forged remains unchanged, and that we may never be parted."*
*"Time I spent apart from you was miserable indeed, Master. May we never be parted again."*
*"'Tis these quiet moments that I hold dearest of all."*
Honestly, if irl person was sweet talking me like that I would start to assume things....😄 Pawns say these lines totally unprompted, and in my opinion, it would feel a bit diminishing to tell my pawn that they are "just a soulless automaton, incapable of having their own wants and desires" after hearing those lines.
That being said, I'm happy with the way pawn "romance" is in the game right now. It's less like an actual romance and more like a long friendship that *could* turn into something more, if you just had more time. I would be fine if Capcom decided to give us an option to have an actual romance with our pawn in a dlc taking place *after* the true ending. At that point, I would be comfortable with my pawns ability to make their own decisions.
That one is so sweet as well! I believe it's kindhearted pawns who say that. The one's I listed above are from calm and straightforward pawns, so I'm wondering what else is there for kindhearted and simple pawns.
Pawns even get jealous!
My pawn was blushing when I talked with her, but then there was some women following me around in Vernworth after I escorted her to the city from the woods. She even came in my house and started walking around like she been there before.
I had to sleep for health reasons, and when I walked out of the house in the morning, my pawn said something like "I thought this dwelling would just be for us, master."😳
It would be nice if they could add an option to make them the official beloved of the arisen but I do know the ending with a high affinity pawn can be read as either romantic or platonic love. I'm certain the developers left it ambiguous so they could leave it up to the interpretation of the player.
God I *wish*.
I've gone through a few cycles and I never fight her lol, I let her go.
https://preview.redd.it/1pvbn0k4z8yc1.jpeg?width=2264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e467d98a0cfed0f1d78919adc06fab7f877d5d1f
I found her completely by accident lol.
Same as you I was just exploring - I was trying to completely fill out the map actually - but I was like OH SHIT as I was realizing what I had discovered lol.
And then I hadn't even finished her first riddle set when I stumbled onto her future location.
If the game had them realise they gained free will before the dragon picked a "beloved" sure, i love my pawn also i think some people forget a pawn blushing at people and even turning away all embarrassed is a sighn theyre gaining free will because at no point do we force them to di that, they do it themselves
Yes. Even if theyre not fully human, they’re expressing enough autonomy to care about you and want you to stay by their side. Its like having a love interest thats socially awkward but needs to be taught its okay to want more out of life than their Arisen’s fullfilment.
They remind me of the synths from Fallout 4, and maybe Im biased cuz I went from the Brotherhood to the Railroad, even ultimately romanced Danse but after switching…I believe that even if a pawn/synth isnt organically “human”, doesnt mean they arent a person.
And this person really cares about you.
The pawn is the right answer, they are with you from day 1 and never leave your side. The Sphinx is the wrong answer but something wrong can feel right. Conflicted I am, meditate on this, I will.
Honestly I always lowkey shipped my arisen with their pawn in DD1, Then Dd2 came out and I can't help but feel even more like shipping them it's all about the way they treat the arisen and the semi romantic things that they say that stopped me dead in my tracks at times first time playing through Dd2.
"Master my heart knows no greater peace then when i'm by your side".
"This room fills my heart with a gentle peace is it because im with you master?"
"How fare you this day master, I hope you feel as content as I am" (heard this one today).
*Stares at arisen when he/she isn't looking*
*blushes when talking to us or stares at us*
Not to mention you go on a adventure with them, they are always by your side protecting and helping you.
And at the true ending they say they would throw everything away just for our sake? I mean...i'm glad it wasn't just me seeing and feeling like all of it felt quite...romantic at times??? Especially with the fact that they blush and smile at you secretly.
Not gonna lie if the DLC goes more indepth about the true ending max affinity relationship, about them becoming more human and maybe even becoming the arisen's beloved?.....I would not hate it :x the ending in DD1 always left me feeling kinda bittersweet/weird like we went through so much just for me to kill myself infront of him and him becoming me (wich was weird because im played a female arisen so to hear that male voice on my charachter made me laugh)
I been seeing alot more post talking about the fact that people wanna hug their pawns (me too) and rather have them as beloved as they are someone we spend all of our time with vs npcs we barely talk with save for some quests.
It's ironic that the pawns feel more human to me then the actual humans.
The dragon might have stolen our heart but my main pawn became mine in the end.
Okay I'm gonna go touch some grass now bye lol.
They definitely do deserve free will and to find someone they love (if they want), but *only* if they are given free will. Anyone wanting to love their Pawn in that way *without* them having free will...straight to jail.
That being said, I love my Pawn to death, and would give them free will in a heartbeat if I could. I don't like the idea that they're forced to obey and care for you, but at least in DD2 they seemed to have given Pawns slightly more autonomy, though not by much. Honestly, I like to think that my Arisen never uses their power over Pawns >!like they do with the Godsway. !<
In fact, it seems your Arisen truly cares about their Pawn as a person, rather than a tool in the few cutscenes we get. Pawns deserve better, and I hope they touch upon that in future games or DLC/expansions.
I'm pretty sure the canon is that all Arisen are like that. Or at least a vast majority. The only Pawn we don't see whose Arisen is in the first game was Duke Edmond's. The rest are pretty close with their Pawns. Sofiah treats Selene as her granddaughter. Savan's was modeled after his father. The Fool's relationship with The Dragonforged is kind of ambiguous, but seeing as he's already taken on the appearance on his Arisen, it seems he's already gotten free will and stays with The Dragonforged because he chooses to. The Duke probably abandoned his pawn after >!taking the Dragon's bargain!< because of the guilt he felt. It's a shame we don't see any of the Arisen's pawns in the second game, seeing as there's quite a few. Their stories don't even make sense, though.
The problem here is we aren’t talking about DD1. It’s been argued that DD2 is a soft reboot. That’s probably the case or I think so anyway.
Yea, Selene awakened her free will (or something like it) so why does our pawn need Dragon corruption to do something kinda similar IF you have a high affinity with them?
Edit: another issue I have with your argument is that it ignores what I said. Pawns lack free will and function as bio-weapons. This isn’t incorrect unless you have an actual counter to my claim.
Your toaster is a toaster and it doesn’t stop being a toaster until it is fully self aware. The same goes for a robot or sex-bot. They are tools until they gain self awareness, nothing more.
It wasn't an argument. Just a statement.
Though, if you want me to address it...you call them bioweapons. That's far from what they are. Bioweapons are infectious or toxic in nature by definition. Nothing about a Pawn is toxic or infectious. So, unless you can give me proof besides "They're biological and are used to fight"...calling them bioweapons is just wrong.
So, yes...it is incorrect. Give me proof in the game or lore where they are considered bioweapons. As for not being people...they are literally called "beings from the rift". Sounds like a people to me. Maybe not fully human, but much like Beastren, Elves, Dwarves, and Humans, they are a type of species that exist.
Fair, don’t know what else to call them because I don’t think pawns are people like humans or beastren.
The pawn legion inhabits a realm kinda like a connection through the multi-verse.
The Arisen in DD2 creates their own pawn.
The pawn is bound to the will of the Arisen and follows their orders, even if the Arisen is a douche. The pawn only starts to resist the will of the Arisen when said pawn is given a tiny amount of free will (Dragons plague).
If we start creating meat puppets that look human but only have a certain level of will that said thing can’t exceed, send said things to fight aliens instead of going ourselves, it’s fair to call that thing a biological weapon.
Orks (originally Krorks) in 40k are considered a bio weapon.
This convo has given me a good question to ask Roanoke though.
Edit: I’m pretty sure Nemesis is considered a bio weapon in Resident Evil. Nemesis isn’t as cut and dry as Orks though.
Iirc, for main pawn, in DD2, the resist lines (with dragons plague) are also dependent on the main pawn's affinity with the arisen. They'd technically act normal with the dragons plague and still be smitten.
And if we account that dragons plague gives free will (+ dmg boost), the love they have of their arisen is all on their own. Technically. They of course, just lack the will to act on it.
Wish this game had a bit more reactivity with the unmoored stuff especially.
The argument that dd2 is a soft reboot is flat out wrong. Massive spoilers here so don't click this unless you've finished the game: DD2 goes out of its way to >!show you that you're quite literally in the same place as in DD1, just many cycles of the endless chain later. Sure, it can be argued that the rules of the chain have since changed, but it remains the same world with very similar rules, HEAVILY implying that the events of DD1 are fully cannon.!<
I already knew about what you’re spoiling so you’re good.
A soft reboot doesn’t gut the original game. That would make it a full reboot. A soft reboot usually makes lore adjusts and stuff.
I did say it was my opinion that DD2 was a soft reboot because I’m not certain, it feels that way and has a few flags.
I feel like you might be misusing soft reboot to describe DD2 as the entire theme is essentially a "reboot". So it kinda cancels out and works more as a sequel like the one above you had mentioned since we're at the end of the long repeating cycle.
Soft reboot would've fit more if it weren't outright shown the situation of DD2.
I dont think its a soft reboot considering that the water castle is literally Gran Soren and the colloseum looking building looks to be where you fought the gryffin in dd1.
The Seafloor Shrine is Gran Soren. It's not a soft reboot, it's an indeterminable number of cycles long past DD1.
Rothias is the current Seneschuan or however you spell it. No one ever beat him until even his body died but his soul remained.
I'm not saying he didn't, but since no one killed him, he remained the Senechal.
All the drakes are Arisen he found and killed. If they had found him one by one and died to his hand the same thing would have happened.
I'm just pointing out that it's so many cycles since DD1 that Gran Soren and all that was before has long sunk into the floor, a new nation created, and then enough time *after* that new nation was created passed that everyone forgot the founder's name.
Everytime i read the comments of these posts it's always filled with people who've clearly never played DD1. Or simply do not understand how Arisen's can bestow Free Will to the pawns. The Arisen isn't forcing the Pawn to do anything. The Pawn is free to choose the Arisen or not
Thats also because DD2 is a soft reboot. Due to rejecting the cycle, the pawn never gets the DD1 bestowal of spirit thus continuing the cycle, but instead something better, with the true ending + max affinity. Which is somewhat the same thing as bestowal but better.
To be fair arisen have to die for pawns to develop free will. They don't have souls, they have to inherit a part of yours. It's pretty constant that the bestowal of spirit only really happens after the arisen dies.
Not in this due to it being a soft reboot, in DD2, dragons plague is the result of free will albeit we might say a blighted spark. Plagued main pawns with max affinity still listen when given a command. By journey' end and rejection of cycle, (true ending + max pawn affinity), the main pawn gets free will from their arisen treating them like a normal person and thus imparting will to them.
Even if you say that.
It still and will always feel extremely gross aswell as naturally wrong.
I've played DD1 since release and multiple times every single year, atleast since DD2 released.. So you're wrong there.
You are forcing the Pawn no matter what you think, because they belong to you, were made by you and listen to every command you give them.
Therefore, the power imbalance is still there.
The only other way they haven't been forced or commanded by the Arisens, was at the real end of DD1.. Which only worked because our sacrifice.
You'd be doing what we've been trying to stop, to find who was mind controlling Pawns for their own benefit and put a stop it.. Did you even pay attention to DD2's story?
They literally made them slaves to dig out a quarry.
Our pawn also also gains free will at the end of dd2 without us having to die and then give them our body like in 1 unfortunately both them and us also die before they both get to talk properly but at least they went together
They didn’t make them slaves. They hijacked or found a loop hole to that natural function of a pawn.
There is a quest in unmoored world that explains it a little.
Pawns are basically bio weapons btw.
Maybe.
Mass Effect actually covered this concept. The Geth weren’t considered to be slaves by anyone in the galaxy until they awakened their free will.
I can’t remember the specifics but I think it goes like this. Quarians build Geth -> Geth function as Labor -> random Geth units eventually ask certain questions (do I have a soul or what is my purpose etc.) -> Quarians panic -> Quarians debate on what to do with the Geth (Some Quarians wanted them destroyed because they had a seedling of free will. Other Quarians argued that the Geth had to be freed because if they have free will then they’re slaves, destroying them would be genocide). -> The side for liberation got wiped out by their own and the Geth drove out the Quarians that wanted them dead.
My example is rough and I apologize for any confusion. I don’t know the exact extent of free will that the pawns have BUT if they have as much as the Geth, then yea, it’s fair to call them slaves.
I’ll edit this post if necessary.
You never force your pawn to do anything though. You only command them, and they willingly obey. Even after they gain a will of their own, they still choose to obey you, whether it be out of love, respect, loyalty, or some other thing (whatever YOU want it to be. Your head canon is canon in this regard!)
(Have a good day, eye guy 👀)
In DD2 you in a sense choose your pawn. Even if the pawn hates you, they still serve. I don’t think the pawns have any choice is dd2.
I didn’t finish Dark Arisen so I don’t know the full pawn lore of DD1.
In the first game, there are pawns who are beloved by others. Selene - a former pawn bestowed with the spirit of her former master - can be Arisen's beloved (yes she appears younger, but I'm assuming the Arisen is a teen too okay!) Olra - the questgiver in Bitterblack Isle - her backstory spawns from an Arisen falling in love with her after she gains her freewill.The game has crossed this line before, it's a major feature of the story and the ending of DD1. The major difference is that it's someone ELSE'S pawn that our Arisen bonds with.
I think the tragedy of this bond you're noticing is that both our Arisen and Pawn cannot have freewill at the same time. I haven't finished DD2 yet, but so far I feel it doesn't explore this Bestowal of Spirit as deeply as the first. I understand why one would want a Pawn Beloved and also understand why people are so against the idea; just wanted to offer a more nuanced answer to your question OP, since it does come up a lot on this sub!
Sorry if I wasn't as clear as I could be. I meant that in DD1, the Pawns who are in romantic relationships do not belong to the Arisen they are romantic with! In the two examples I gave, Selene is the witche's pawn, and Olra was Grethe's.
Agreed. I want more content with our pawn in the game, both romance and friendship. They're the only ones who deserve our love without any questions.
And no, they're not brainless and especially not emotionless. They can enjoy things, laugh, be sarcastic, show displeasure and they do have personalities like any of us. They simply doesn't have enough will to make most decisions on their own. But even that they can get through the journey with their Arisen and become human after their master death.
Thats in dark arisen, in 2 they get all that without us having to die for it though unfortunately we both end up dying, it would be interesting if they didn't and the Pawn kept thier free will with us still being alive, though i would expect we would have to use a wakestone for them if they went down
Ever since I saved Selene and her Arisen said she was a pawn, I wanted a chance to grant my main pawn free will and romance them.
It would have been so sweet, and would be a nice final touch to the game
This is actually very possible for dlc content considering the original themes of bitter Black Isle. A pawn centric dlc across the ocean is heavily hinted at with all the dialogue and flavored text
What I think is that the scripted romances in this game are incredibly thin to the point of being worthless. Ulrika and Wilhelmina aren't so much characters as they are plot points to help explain an idea that is poorly implemented in this game and in Dragon's Dogma in general (the Affinity System). So when you spend so much time with your Pawn, both at the character creation section and in the game proper, seeing them or wanting to see them as a romantic choice is really, really easy to do and want to do. It's not like the options presented by the game are better, and choosing who you want from the NPC's is a crapshoot at best.
But if you've played the first game and played the second, then wanting to have a romance with your Pawn just sounds...like you're setting yourself up for disappointment when the game fumbles with it.
Because if I saw the option as DLC, I'd be afraid of what the devs would do. And I really like this game.
Honestly, I think that instead of romance, it would be better to further explore free will and the will of the Pawns and your bond with your Main Pawn. It's kinda there already, so it wouldn't be hard for the devs to implement something like that into whatever DLC they make for the game.
And if they did, then I would really like it if your Main Pawn (with a high enough Affinity) gave you a gift of their own volition at random intervals along with additional dialogue about the act depending on Inclination (though a tsundere Straightforward Pawn would be interesting to see). Maybe have their dialogue about protecting the Arisen be more proactive or doting, just as long as it's clearly different from Hired Pawns. Maybe at a campsite, the bonus stats for cooking happens automatically and there can be dialogue indicating that the Main Pawn cooked for the Arisen if the Main Pawn has the food item in their inventory.
And if your Arisen gets their green health dropped to zero, it would be cool if the Main Pawn can run over and auto-heal you with a healing curative in either your inventory or theirs.
Just little things that make you feel like...your Pawn truly cares for your well-being and is starting to realize just how much they care (beyond you being the Arisen) as they gain their own Will.
I would like that.
EDIT:
If the Affinity System was just you and your Main Pawn and their growing Will and how they interact with you, I think it would make the Affinity System a whole lot better and people would be happier. And you wouldn't get another Aelinore/Ulrika/Wilhelmina situation where the "romance" is forced on you until the end where you end up with a random NPC because you talked to them before you reached the Dragon.
A lot of people haven't reached the true ending or saying things like "No because of DD:DA we all know how that went" or saying "Pawns are just mindless slaves they can't say no". In Dark Arisen Ashe refused to decided wether to sacrifice Olra or choose to kill Grette who turned into a dragon. His indecision caused Grette to kill Olra and turn Ashe into Daimon. Olra then transferred her soul into the body of an Arisen. Nowhere in that was it wrong for Ashe to love Olra, Olra began to show a will of her own which enabled her to slowly reciprocate Ashe's love.
In Dragon's Dogma 2 the pawns are substantially more willful than in Dark Arisen. If you go to the mining prisoners camp on Agamen you can see how many of the pawns detest their forced servitude. They are forced to cooperate due to the godsway. They will beg or express anger when you interact with them. Your most loyal pawn depending on affinity will start to develop feelings for you and will go against their "purpose" in order to free the world from the cycle.
Your pawn will repeatedly tell you how much they cherish their bond with you, how they constantly felt your presence due to the bond, how they started to experience emotions that they could've never imagined, how they wish to remain with you for all time, or in the case of my pawn, complain about how crowded the house is and wish it was you two.
There are a myriad of quests and mechanics that glean you into the fact that pawns aren't tools or slaves. From the Agamen ruins mining camp, to the affinity system, phantom oxcart quest, the godsway, the true ending, and the much hated dragonsplague.
https://preview.redd.it/yobnwdrsviyc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ba60bd510e3aed219dbd817a53b6697e80df099
The pawns natively have fledging wills of their own.
I specifically made a voluptuous cat women with a big ass sword so I could love her and she could cradle me in a big muscley arms. Just to be let down...it's not fair. They played us like a damn vielle!!!
Romances are fleeting in this world. In the last game, there was a strong connection with the Arisen and their pawn. You know how that ended up. That connection is on a much deeper level someone who is beloved. They transcend time with you and carry on your will. They are not lovers, but they are bound to each other from beyond the cycle
They really did a great job with the pawns this time.
Not that they were bad in DDDA.
I loved the pawn system in DDDA. It's just so much better in DD2.
Only thing I miss is the knowledge system from DDDA. The three stars and the knowledge triggers made it feel more thorough.
But pawns definitely have more personality.
You mean the souless demi humans who can't consent? I'm so sick of this topic cause it proves you didn't pay attention. Pawns are literally souless and likely can't even feel love in the human sense. On top of that their only purpose is to follow you blindly. They will throw themselves at an unwinnable battle that guarantees death just because you say so. They do all those things you listed not out of love but out of the fact that they are puppets. It's engraved into them to support the arisen completely. The only sign of "free will" is looked upon with fear from the dragon plague because it's a literally anything other than fully supporting us goes against the fundamental concept of their existence. Their only "free will" is a disease dude. They are called pawns for a reason. It is fucked that so many people think it would be oh so cute to fuck their pawn who would be physically unable to say no to them
They're not completely soulless. They have a sliver of your soul, as it is you who created them, and through interaction with them, they can slowly become truly human. As is the case with Selene in DD1. She was a pawn, but was made fully human, her pawnprint completely disappearing.
Also, I'd not say it's fear of free will with the Dragonsplague, but the fear of them losing themselves and going on a rampage. Much like the Arisen's pull on their Pawns, the Dragonsplague *forces* them to turn into a dragon and kill everything in the immediate area, besides apparently you. We also see it at the end of the game where the pawn is forced to change, but fights against it, and with high affinity...they have a will of their own.
I'd give them free will in a heartbeat if I could during the course of the game, but as it stands, I do agree that wanting anything more while they can't consent is messed up and shouldn't be considered, but that's why the OP mentioned giving them free will. So, I'd say you didn't read the post, and just saw the title and replied.
I wasn't saying it's a fear of their free will. Instead that their "free will" is associated with danger because dragon plague is the only way they can refuse you. I'm also putting free will in quotation because it's still not their free will it's the dragon plague. So literally any semblance of them being human is looked upon with fear. If you can't graps the fact that even if the arisen gave them free will the arisen would still have power over them and it would be a predatory relationship. "I GAVE you free will so can we go out now?" If you can't see the issue there then we're done here and I hope you have a great day
I know you used quotes, but I think you're missing my point. As you said, Dragonsplague doesn't give them free will. It's a plague. It's also the farthest thing from being any sort of semblance of humanity, as it forces them to become a corrupted dragon and kill an entire town. It's a horrifying disease that harms them more than helps. So, I disagree with putting those two things together, even vaguely.
However, I'm on your side, my friend. I said nothing about them owing the Arisen or forcing them to do anything against their will, free will or not. And anyone who does do that will find a million magic arrows locked onto them, as my Arisen and I don't play about treating your Pawns right.
If they chose to leave after getting free will, I'd be sad to see them go, but happy they get to choose their life, free of servitude. I'd wave them goodbye and tell them to enjoy life. I'd also be more than happy if they chose to stay.
You've said it well. Even if they had proper will power / souls, the natural power imbalance just makes it gross. They can't really feel anything unless the Arisen is around? That gives the Arisen such an upper hand that there would never be a healthy relationship there.
This is why slave girls in anime is such a trend, dudes either don't know or don't care about that imbalance. They feel like they will be 'one of the good ones.' It's pretty gross.
I really can't understand why such a large part of this community is ok with starting a "relationship" with someone with such a huge power imbalance.
In the game, your pawn supposedly falls for your arisen before the game ends( rosy cheeks and all that). They don't have free will at that point.
Genuinely no unless we're talking about a post-endgame Pawn that has their free will unlocked. Even then, for me: no.
The pawns are basically machines programmed to follow and be loyal to you, it's artificial. I think it's a little skeevey for them to be the Arisen's beloved when the Arisen basically molded them out of clay and commands them to do their bidding. Yes pawns can eventually change and become autonomous from their Arisen but it's still creepy when you're the one who made them. Massive power imbalance.
Nope, your pawn doesn't have free will until the very end of the game. Before that, they are essentially magically bound to you and have no will when you are around. I'll get downvoted for the third time fuck it, it's a weird power imbalance. The arisen makes their pawn down to the personality. I would be more cool with it if they weren't glorified slaves created by the arisen, and they could tell you no on a whim. The only time they tell the arisen no is when they either have a disease or they literally can not complete whatever task you ask of them. If they had free will the whole time, then I would feel more comfortable with romancing the pawns. It's just a game, and I'm talking about the implications of the circumstances in the game and in its lore. I said the same shit when I played DD1.
Did you follow Dark Arisen? Because in that DLC it was literally about a guy who couldn't choose between his pawn beloved or his dragon Arisen/pawn beloved which turned him into thing he becomes. Sooo... It's possible for that to happen. Also you pawn in dd2 falls for you if you have a high enough affinity too.
Yea I played ddda an ungodly amount with multiple saves. He fucked up the order because he refused to kill his dragon. Also, I know your pawn falls for you in dd2 and your pawn gains free will once you have enough affinity and you get to the end of the game. However, most of that game, your pawn is just a pawn. And they're incapable of not doing what you want them to except for the conditions I mentioned before. Honestly, it's just something that I find really weird. I get people wanting to romance their own pawns, but the implications there are really awkward for me. I had this convo with some friends, and we all agreed that it felt weird, but we couldn't really pin down why after accounting for the pawn having free will. For me, I if I was the arisen, I don't feel like the pawn owes me anything. I just feel really weird about dating someone that I created. It feels icky.
That's completely understandable. I would feel weird too. But, what about the other pawns that other arisens made? Like Selene or Barnaby? Is it wrong to romance them because they're pawns too? This is an interesting subject to discuss tbh. Also he fucked up the order because the dragon was the old Arisen who he loved and was raised by. Her pawn became his pawn and they fell in love so when the choice came I couldn't choose fucking up the order.
Ok, so it feels wrong for the same reason as before. Pawns are duty bound to assist any arisen. They have no will outside of this. They don't really have the will to ignore the arisen's demands. It feels slightly less weird because you didn't make those pawns
I get what ya mean. But relationships between Arisen and pawn vary. Let's say you are the Arisen and you have your pawn. Just because you see them as family doesn't mean other Arisens before you had that type of relationship with their pawns. It's like with Pokemon. Some people want to bang their Pokemon while some don't.
Oh, I don't see my pawn as family. I made them, but I'm not their father. I've been tryna work this out. The closest I've gotten is the idea that I made everything about you and since that is the case I feel weird about messing with you like that. It feels like a slope that is too slippery for my liking. Now with other pawns, it's about power. A Pokémon can make the resist you or not. Pawns.... not so much.
In a way, they're enslaved to us, as we can do whatever the hell we want with em. Maybe there should be a optional quest after the end game where players can set them free. But then that would conflict with the main gimmick of the game..
I'm sure there'll be mods for it soon
>I just find it contradicting that it's controversial for the Arisen and the pawn to love each other when the game literally decides our beloved for you and that's acceptable somehow.
Pawns are not human. It's very easy to not really understand through gameplay, but they are essentially golems in the shape of man in order to make the Arisen more trusting of them. They exist solely to do whatever you want, no questions asked and no real criticism of how you go about it. They don't have souls of their own, and there's only been few instances of a Pawn gaining a soul in the lore at large.
There's also the fact that even if they gained a soul, them falling in love with you would be considered Stockholm Syndrome and you taking advantage of that would be considered morally wrong.
I am replaying the 1st game to refresh myself with the story and gameplay as I would have never guess a 2nd one would come out when I played DD in 2012.
Pawns were portrayed as emotionless beings similar to humans but not humans, the idea of them feeling love would be contradictory to that portrayal. However it does make sense that the person traveling with you throughout your whole journey would turn out to be your true love.
Unfortunately I feel a pawns thoughts about their master more so resembles admiration versus actual love or love interest. Similar to a dog’s infatuation with their owners. I do wish the devs had went another route and made pawns more like actual humans and had given them a love interest factor for the Arisen.
Would have made cosplaying characters from shows or books that traveled with a companion that turned out to be their true love at the end of the story all the sweeter
Same. I was so happy when I finally got my pawn to blush 😍 I wish he could be my beloved.
https://preview.redd.it/39xduowr5iyc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f7c7900a52298f57f7694cd1818b6f860e0f685
No i don't
Have i got anything against anyone who does want that? No i don't either.
I feel the pawn blushing is just a consequence of them obviously being put in the same Affinity mechanic as everyone, i feel they were put in that group because it was easy to get the point across of your pawn "growing" but if they could've they would've had them on their own system not tied to "romance"
Basically it was cheaper and easier to put the pawns into a already existing system mechanic to get the message they was trying to say across than come up with a whole new system just for them.
But it wouldn't have took much just to exclude pawns from blushing i hear you say, yeah well it wouldn't have took much to let players cook in their own home either but we never got that as-well.
I consider my Pawn my closest Allie and friend but not my lover.
Not really. Pawns don’t love the Arisen for their personality etc. They only love them because they are Arisen and they are created specifically to aid the Arisen no matter what. So no, the one who deserves to be the Arisen’s beloved is the one who loves the Arisen for real with an unmolested motive.
It's... Complicated, but not actually.
You are literally making someone in the image of your ideal person. When they first arrive, they have no free will of their own. They are obedient and in your service.
Simply put, they cannot actually consent to your romantic feelings, because they are bound to you, to obey you, as all pawns are to the Arisen. To romance them is to force yourself onto them.
That said...
Later in the game, with a mixture of high enough affinity showing them physically blush toward you (reminder, you can have max affinity with a child, but they will never treat you like a lover, for obvious reasons), and them gaining free will, to choose on their own, it becomes more clear the pawn is no longer simply an obedient slave.
Instead, you groomed them into loving you before their free will became present.
Given how all dark fantasy is based around medieval culture and ideals, this isn't abnormal, per Se, for the time period. But what is social acceptable isn't always what's morally acceptable, so don't groom your pawns into loving you, and don't try to romance your pawns.
Yes, they are cute. You literally made them in your ideal image. THAT JUST MAKES IT WORSE.
I'd love my pawn, but not as a romantic partner, but as something deeper than a sibling.
If I were in the Arisen's position, I can't see myself ever developing a romantic connection to my pawn because it would be extremely one sided and just wrong. Even if they were to acquire a will of their own and be functionally human, it would still be a heavily biased relationship because I made them.
A situation like Olra and Ashe is a bit more acceptable, in my opinion.
No.
The Pawn should be considered the Arisens Family Member or close to it in all honesty.
Even the game tells you so, that's if you paid attention.
I'm not keen on being in a relationship with someone or some thing that is essentially our Doll.
They can't consent and it'll be extremely weird, as Pawns are like children or our actual child in a sense aswell.. They're all learning of our world, we teach them, we are meant to guide them.
To help them grow up and learn their duty as the Arisens Pawn.
Not to get down n dirty with them.
Just because someone made their Pawn their ideal perfect person, doesn't mean they were made to satisfy that.
Edit of course here comes the downvotes, I just find the power balance between Arisen and Pawn to be severely weird and essentially you just repeating what we are actively trying to stop in DD2's story.. To stop the false Arisen and free Pawns from mind control.
"Ashe took Olra as his main Pawn - but in a cruel twist of fate, the Great Dragon captured Olra and it offered Ashe its choice - either defeat it or sacrifice Olra. However, as the Dragon was also the husk of Grette, the choice was essentially sacrifice his love or kill his surrogate mother." -lore
There's still a lot of theories about whether or not ashe truly had his own main pawn,main argument for that is always awakened daimon
But yeah still Olra is not Ashe's original created pawn and had some sort of free will from
Ashe took Olra as his main Pawn - but in a cruel twist of fate, the Great Dragon captured Olra and it offered Ashe its choice - either defeat it or sacrifice Olra. However, as the Dragon was also the husk of Grette, the choice was essentially sacrifice his love or kill his surrogate mother.
I remember back in the DD and DDDA days this question was posed many times, and most people agreed that pawns are like the child of the Arisen, as in they learn everything they know from the Arisen. If the Arisen would go after someone like that, well that would be grooming.
I agree cause I have a slave fetish, and being my female pawn's dommy mommy sounds like fun but I'm pretty sure that it should be morally wrong for normal people and there is no way to justify it🤔
I don't think so because the Pawns are not human beings. The Arisen and normal humans/beastren have the capacity to have their own powerful will, but Pawns do not.
Pawns lack the ability to freely choose because they are beings from the Rift, and it is a strict part of their nature to serve the Arisen no matter what.
The whole beloved mechanic is too superficial to really matter, but having the Pawn be a candidtae just kind of goes against how the game portrays their relationship to the Arisen. It is not entirely mutual because the Pawns are automatically compelled to have affinity to the Arisen, hence why they are ultimately just called "Pawns".
At the end of the day pawns aren’t even human they just look like it. They are pulled out of a void as is to serve the arisen. Some pawns can become human but doesn’t that involve the arisen dying or something like the little witch girl in the first game idk it’s been awhile since I really tapped into the lore
I always preferred that pawns don't fall in love with their arisen because it has some weird connotations to it. I like when they are simply your best friend and you bestow your spirit to them when you become seneschal.
Though I guess it doesn't matter in dd2 because you don't become seneschal.
No I don't want my pawn that has no will of their own and does everything I say to be my beloved. That's really weird and all of you that keep wanting this are weird.
The idea of romancing a pawn always felt weird to me. I mean their emotionless and lack will of their own by definition. I mean how can you two even be good friends if they're obligated to be what you want them to be and their temper is chosen? It's creepy.
Yeah nothing bad has ever happened from givin' yer Pawns the ol' sticky wickit.
https://preview.redd.it/3h93ht0nz8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59fe50c26b9e1b5cf34a3b256ee22ffb2fec8e01
Aaand we got another one who didn't bother to read DDDA story.
Bitterblack isle happened bc of his inability to choose between his beloved (who was already a human when she chose to accompany him) and his former teacher and adoptive mother. He poorly chose words and cursed the cycle, and the Dragon accepted it as his wish.
Not bc he wanted to bang a pawn 🙄
Pygmalion and Galatea are the mythical equivalent of this. Read some of the modern psychological analysis on \*that\* "relationship" and come back. "I always knew you were special..."
I would prefer an \*Ex Machina\* style ending for every Arisen who gets involved with their Pawn. I feel like they're a sweet but desperately sycophantic employee sometimes. Just not into the brainless praise and absolute lack of life outside of me. The NPCs actually have their own stuff going on. Like actual people. The lack of free will is a huge ick for me. What am I, some loser celebrity who hires a fan to be their assistant and then dates them? It's all a huge non-starter for me. If I need mindless fawning praise, I'll get a dog. If my arisen wants an actual relationship, they'll go find an actual person, and not one they have total authority over. Getting with my pawn, the power imbalance literally in the name, is not an attractive idea to me
They will literally do anything you want them to and they are slaves. Thats all they know.
However mine is constantly telling me that they hate not being by myside and only feel safe when they are. Im putting that down to the AI knowing im gna save thier ass before mine
They're slaves.. so no. It's weird. The whole concept is a little weird if you think about it in a non video game way.
They should've changed it to where the pawns have free will but they are loyal to the arisen because only arisens are capable of bringing them into existence. Then them being loyal and helping you would just be a favor or have some familial esc motivations. They'd be thankful for you using your powers to create them and want to make sure you succeed.
I feel like with the >!high pawn affinity ending the pawn should ask the Arisen a multiple choice question that slightly alters the ending based on choice!<. i wish there was more choice with the Wilhelmina quest ending >!next time, I'm getting Allard arrested!<
Your pawn is basically a slave, yes they are a lot more like people on this game than the previous one (thank god) but they are legitimately shaped by the will of the Arisen to be given form. They can become real people and develop free will after the Arisen has died or become the seneschal but that’s it. Prior to that they are compelled to follow the Arisen. That’s the whole point of the godsway narrative.
Which is why it’s disturbing to me so many people treat theirs like slutty dress up dolls to make bang maids.
Even though it’s kind of sketchy with the game logic, my pawn is the only character I actually felt bonded to in any way. The NPCs who were supposed to be the actual “beloved” options just felt like weirdos with rosacea who kept showing up at my house
This is unfortunately so true. Even the two main romancable characters do not have the bonding of any pawn you are with long enough.
Going by DLC story for the first game, and it's "true" ending implications, having pawn as romantic interest is okay.
*"Master, you are an open book. You have longed for my company, haven't you? Well here I am."* *"Our master cuts a gallant figure in the throes of battle, but is no less striking here, in the campfire's glow."* *"I should like to remain here for all time - assuming you're here as well, Master."* *"I hope this bond we have forged remains unchanged, and that we may never be parted."* *"Time I spent apart from you was miserable indeed, Master. May we never be parted again."* *"'Tis these quiet moments that I hold dearest of all."* Honestly, if irl person was sweet talking me like that I would start to assume things....😄 Pawns say these lines totally unprompted, and in my opinion, it would feel a bit diminishing to tell my pawn that they are "just a soulless automaton, incapable of having their own wants and desires" after hearing those lines. That being said, I'm happy with the way pawn "romance" is in the game right now. It's less like an actual romance and more like a long friendship that *could* turn into something more, if you just had more time. I would be fine if Capcom decided to give us an option to have an actual romance with our pawn in a dlc taking place *after* the true ending. At that point, I would be comfortable with my pawns ability to make their own decisions.
I made my pawn look like my gf and she tells me from time to time "Master, my heart knows no greater peace than when I am by your side." Melts me.
That one is so sweet as well! I believe it's kindhearted pawns who say that. The one's I listed above are from calm and straightforward pawns, so I'm wondering what else is there for kindhearted and simple pawns.
I've seen a few for Simple pawns "I'd gladly look at you all day long, Arisen." "Stay with me always, Arisen. I wish for nothing more."
Pawns even get jealous! My pawn was blushing when I talked with her, but then there was some women following me around in Vernworth after I escorted her to the city from the woods. She even came in my house and started walking around like she been there before. I had to sleep for health reasons, and when I walked out of the house in the morning, my pawn said something like "I thought this dwelling would just be for us, master."😳
It would be nice if they could add an option to make them the official beloved of the arisen but I do know the ending with a high affinity pawn can be read as either romantic or platonic love. I'm certain the developers left it ambiguous so they could leave it up to the interpretation of the player.
No, it should be the Sphinx.
Unironically yes. Whenever she leans in I’d just give her a smooch
*Sphinx leans in and gives crazy eyes* Arisen: “Yup, I can fix her.”
Based
Tis as you say.
Crawling in as we speak
Would
God I *wish*. I've gone through a few cycles and I never fight her lol, I let her go. https://preview.redd.it/1pvbn0k4z8yc1.jpeg?width=2264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e467d98a0cfed0f1d78919adc06fab7f877d5d1f
It all started with that smile. That goddamn smile.
I can't fight her, especially when she goes to her second spot and she's laying there...and she looks so cute just laying there....
Still havnt found her or looked lmao, im still runnjng around do lil mindless missions not even following the storyline lmao
I found her completely by accident lol. Same as you I was just exploring - I was trying to completely fill out the map actually - but I was like OH SHIT as I was realizing what I had discovered lol. And then I hadn't even finished her first riddle set when I stumbled onto her future location.
Nice! I doubt I ever find her… i think next time i play imma try n get my main mage pawn the master spell and then just stream line the main story
"Take a look yon chest"
It better stank
I immediately thought yes, then I saw your comment and would like to change my answer.
🤤🤤
The jiggle gets me every time man
Honestly. Fair. I'd give her a ring in a heartbeat if I could :'(
If the game had them realise they gained free will before the dragon picked a "beloved" sure, i love my pawn also i think some people forget a pawn blushing at people and even turning away all embarrassed is a sighn theyre gaining free will because at no point do we force them to di that, they do it themselves
Yes. Even if theyre not fully human, they’re expressing enough autonomy to care about you and want you to stay by their side. Its like having a love interest thats socially awkward but needs to be taught its okay to want more out of life than their Arisen’s fullfilment. They remind me of the synths from Fallout 4, and maybe Im biased cuz I went from the Brotherhood to the Railroad, even ultimately romanced Danse but after switching…I believe that even if a pawn/synth isnt organically “human”, doesnt mean they arent a person. And this person really cares about you.
The pawn is the right answer, they are with you from day 1 and never leave your side. The Sphinx is the wrong answer but something wrong can feel right. Conflicted I am, meditate on this, I will.
Honestly I always lowkey shipped my arisen with their pawn in DD1, Then Dd2 came out and I can't help but feel even more like shipping them it's all about the way they treat the arisen and the semi romantic things that they say that stopped me dead in my tracks at times first time playing through Dd2. "Master my heart knows no greater peace then when i'm by your side". "This room fills my heart with a gentle peace is it because im with you master?" "How fare you this day master, I hope you feel as content as I am" (heard this one today). *Stares at arisen when he/she isn't looking* *blushes when talking to us or stares at us* Not to mention you go on a adventure with them, they are always by your side protecting and helping you. And at the true ending they say they would throw everything away just for our sake? I mean...i'm glad it wasn't just me seeing and feeling like all of it felt quite...romantic at times??? Especially with the fact that they blush and smile at you secretly. Not gonna lie if the DLC goes more indepth about the true ending max affinity relationship, about them becoming more human and maybe even becoming the arisen's beloved?.....I would not hate it :x the ending in DD1 always left me feeling kinda bittersweet/weird like we went through so much just for me to kill myself infront of him and him becoming me (wich was weird because im played a female arisen so to hear that male voice on my charachter made me laugh) I been seeing alot more post talking about the fact that people wanna hug their pawns (me too) and rather have them as beloved as they are someone we spend all of our time with vs npcs we barely talk with save for some quests. It's ironic that the pawns feel more human to me then the actual humans. The dragon might have stolen our heart but my main pawn became mine in the end. Okay I'm gonna go touch some grass now bye lol.
They definitely do deserve free will and to find someone they love (if they want), but *only* if they are given free will. Anyone wanting to love their Pawn in that way *without* them having free will...straight to jail. That being said, I love my Pawn to death, and would give them free will in a heartbeat if I could. I don't like the idea that they're forced to obey and care for you, but at least in DD2 they seemed to have given Pawns slightly more autonomy, though not by much. Honestly, I like to think that my Arisen never uses their power over Pawns >!like they do with the Godsway. !< In fact, it seems your Arisen truly cares about their Pawn as a person, rather than a tool in the few cutscenes we get. Pawns deserve better, and I hope they touch upon that in future games or DLC/expansions.
I'm pretty sure the canon is that all Arisen are like that. Or at least a vast majority. The only Pawn we don't see whose Arisen is in the first game was Duke Edmond's. The rest are pretty close with their Pawns. Sofiah treats Selene as her granddaughter. Savan's was modeled after his father. The Fool's relationship with The Dragonforged is kind of ambiguous, but seeing as he's already taken on the appearance on his Arisen, it seems he's already gotten free will and stays with The Dragonforged because he chooses to. The Duke probably abandoned his pawn after >!taking the Dragon's bargain!< because of the guilt he felt. It's a shame we don't see any of the Arisen's pawns in the second game, seeing as there's quite a few. Their stories don't even make sense, though.
To be fair, pawns aren’t actually people. They’re more like a semi-aware bio weapon.
This isn't exactly true. Through interaction, they can fully become human. Just look to Selene from DD1.
The problem here is we aren’t talking about DD1. It’s been argued that DD2 is a soft reboot. That’s probably the case or I think so anyway. Yea, Selene awakened her free will (or something like it) so why does our pawn need Dragon corruption to do something kinda similar IF you have a high affinity with them? Edit: another issue I have with your argument is that it ignores what I said. Pawns lack free will and function as bio-weapons. This isn’t incorrect unless you have an actual counter to my claim. Your toaster is a toaster and it doesn’t stop being a toaster until it is fully self aware. The same goes for a robot or sex-bot. They are tools until they gain self awareness, nothing more.
It wasn't an argument. Just a statement. Though, if you want me to address it...you call them bioweapons. That's far from what they are. Bioweapons are infectious or toxic in nature by definition. Nothing about a Pawn is toxic or infectious. So, unless you can give me proof besides "They're biological and are used to fight"...calling them bioweapons is just wrong. So, yes...it is incorrect. Give me proof in the game or lore where they are considered bioweapons. As for not being people...they are literally called "beings from the rift". Sounds like a people to me. Maybe not fully human, but much like Beastren, Elves, Dwarves, and Humans, they are a type of species that exist.
Fair, don’t know what else to call them because I don’t think pawns are people like humans or beastren. The pawn legion inhabits a realm kinda like a connection through the multi-verse. The Arisen in DD2 creates their own pawn. The pawn is bound to the will of the Arisen and follows their orders, even if the Arisen is a douche. The pawn only starts to resist the will of the Arisen when said pawn is given a tiny amount of free will (Dragons plague). If we start creating meat puppets that look human but only have a certain level of will that said thing can’t exceed, send said things to fight aliens instead of going ourselves, it’s fair to call that thing a biological weapon. Orks (originally Krorks) in 40k are considered a bio weapon. This convo has given me a good question to ask Roanoke though. Edit: I’m pretty sure Nemesis is considered a bio weapon in Resident Evil. Nemesis isn’t as cut and dry as Orks though.
Iirc, for main pawn, in DD2, the resist lines (with dragons plague) are also dependent on the main pawn's affinity with the arisen. They'd technically act normal with the dragons plague and still be smitten. And if we account that dragons plague gives free will (+ dmg boost), the love they have of their arisen is all on their own. Technically. They of course, just lack the will to act on it. Wish this game had a bit more reactivity with the unmoored stuff especially.
Yea, I wish unmoored wasn’t timed. I just want to hang out in it.
The argument that dd2 is a soft reboot is flat out wrong. Massive spoilers here so don't click this unless you've finished the game: DD2 goes out of its way to >!show you that you're quite literally in the same place as in DD1, just many cycles of the endless chain later. Sure, it can be argued that the rules of the chain have since changed, but it remains the same world with very similar rules, HEAVILY implying that the events of DD1 are fully cannon.!<
I already knew about what you’re spoiling so you’re good. A soft reboot doesn’t gut the original game. That would make it a full reboot. A soft reboot usually makes lore adjusts and stuff. I did say it was my opinion that DD2 was a soft reboot because I’m not certain, it feels that way and has a few flags.
I feel like you might be misusing soft reboot to describe DD2 as the entire theme is essentially a "reboot". So it kinda cancels out and works more as a sequel like the one above you had mentioned since we're at the end of the long repeating cycle. Soft reboot would've fit more if it weren't outright shown the situation of DD2.
That’s fair. I made it clear it was my opinion because I wasn’t sure.
I think you explained it better than I could. That's basically exactly what I meant.
I dont think its a soft reboot considering that the water castle is literally Gran Soren and the colloseum looking building looks to be where you fought the gryffin in dd1.
Soft reboot just means the game received some subtle but major changes. It could be lore etc.
No it doesn't
The Seafloor Shrine is Gran Soren. It's not a soft reboot, it's an indeterminable number of cycles long past DD1. Rothias is the current Seneschuan or however you spell it. No one ever beat him until even his body died but his soul remained.
Rothias gave up on his duty as the Senechal. I don’t think it was because Arisen kept failing to kill him.
I'm not saying he didn't, but since no one killed him, he remained the Senechal. All the drakes are Arisen he found and killed. If they had found him one by one and died to his hand the same thing would have happened. I'm just pointing out that it's so many cycles since DD1 that Gran Soren and all that was before has long sunk into the floor, a new nation created, and then enough time *after* that new nation was created passed that everyone forgot the founder's name.
I will be the wingman for my self aware bio weapon ice queen so she can find true love. Who wouldn't want to date a nuke?
Lol
I mean, I'd love my own pawn to be my beloved but apparently Trysha's grandmother, Eini, weaseled her way to the top.
LOL :D
Everytime i read the comments of these posts it's always filled with people who've clearly never played DD1. Or simply do not understand how Arisen's can bestow Free Will to the pawns. The Arisen isn't forcing the Pawn to do anything. The Pawn is free to choose the Arisen or not
Thats also because DD2 is a soft reboot. Due to rejecting the cycle, the pawn never gets the DD1 bestowal of spirit thus continuing the cycle, but instead something better, with the true ending + max affinity. Which is somewhat the same thing as bestowal but better.
To be fair arisen have to die for pawns to develop free will. They don't have souls, they have to inherit a part of yours. It's pretty constant that the bestowal of spirit only really happens after the arisen dies.
Not in this due to it being a soft reboot, in DD2, dragons plague is the result of free will albeit we might say a blighted spark. Plagued main pawns with max affinity still listen when given a command. By journey' end and rejection of cycle, (true ending + max pawn affinity), the main pawn gets free will from their arisen treating them like a normal person and thus imparting will to them.
This person was talking about the context of people never playing dd1, where the arisen had to die, but yeah 2 switches things up.
Ah. My apollogies! Love your username btw.
No worries, i should have been more clear lol. Thanks, your username is super cool too
Even if you say that. It still and will always feel extremely gross aswell as naturally wrong. I've played DD1 since release and multiple times every single year, atleast since DD2 released.. So you're wrong there. You are forcing the Pawn no matter what you think, because they belong to you, were made by you and listen to every command you give them. Therefore, the power imbalance is still there. The only other way they haven't been forced or commanded by the Arisens, was at the real end of DD1.. Which only worked because our sacrifice. You'd be doing what we've been trying to stop, to find who was mind controlling Pawns for their own benefit and put a stop it.. Did you even pay attention to DD2's story? They literally made them slaves to dig out a quarry.
Our pawn also also gains free will at the end of dd2 without us having to die and then give them our body like in 1 unfortunately both them and us also die before they both get to talk properly but at least they went together
They didn’t make them slaves. They hijacked or found a loop hole to that natural function of a pawn. There is a quest in unmoored world that explains it a little. Pawns are basically bio weapons btw.
So, slaves technically?
Maybe. Mass Effect actually covered this concept. The Geth weren’t considered to be slaves by anyone in the galaxy until they awakened their free will. I can’t remember the specifics but I think it goes like this. Quarians build Geth -> Geth function as Labor -> random Geth units eventually ask certain questions (do I have a soul or what is my purpose etc.) -> Quarians panic -> Quarians debate on what to do with the Geth (Some Quarians wanted them destroyed because they had a seedling of free will. Other Quarians argued that the Geth had to be freed because if they have free will then they’re slaves, destroying them would be genocide). -> The side for liberation got wiped out by their own and the Geth drove out the Quarians that wanted them dead. My example is rough and I apologize for any confusion. I don’t know the exact extent of free will that the pawns have BUT if they have as much as the Geth, then yea, it’s fair to call them slaves. I’ll edit this post if necessary.
You never force your pawn to do anything though. You only command them, and they willingly obey. Even after they gain a will of their own, they still choose to obey you, whether it be out of love, respect, loyalty, or some other thing (whatever YOU want it to be. Your head canon is canon in this regard!) (Have a good day, eye guy 👀)
In DD2 you in a sense choose your pawn. Even if the pawn hates you, they still serve. I don’t think the pawns have any choice is dd2. I didn’t finish Dark Arisen so I don’t know the full pawn lore of DD1.
Many people have been thinking that even 12 years ago actually.
Is there anyone who doesn't have this opinion?
Pawn Sex Mod when?
In the first game, there are pawns who are beloved by others. Selene - a former pawn bestowed with the spirit of her former master - can be Arisen's beloved (yes she appears younger, but I'm assuming the Arisen is a teen too okay!) Olra - the questgiver in Bitterblack Isle - her backstory spawns from an Arisen falling in love with her after she gains her freewill.The game has crossed this line before, it's a major feature of the story and the ending of DD1. The major difference is that it's someone ELSE'S pawn that our Arisen bonds with. I think the tragedy of this bond you're noticing is that both our Arisen and Pawn cannot have freewill at the same time. I haven't finished DD2 yet, but so far I feel it doesn't explore this Bestowal of Spirit as deeply as the first. I understand why one would want a Pawn Beloved and also understand why people are so against the idea; just wanted to offer a more nuanced answer to your question OP, since it does come up a lot on this sub!
I definitely prefer the dd2 version of the bestowel of will. Even if it does end up been bittersweet
I'm excited to come back to this topic after seeing the ending myself!
It doesnt feel as weirdly empty as dark arisens did
It's bittersweet, but neither Arisen and Pawn could exist and have freewill aslong as the other lives. They have a duty to fulfill. A cycle to break
2 they could but something else happens
wait, how is our DD2 pawn someone else's Pawn? 🤔
Sorry if I wasn't as clear as I could be. I meant that in DD1, the Pawns who are in romantic relationships do not belong to the Arisen they are romantic with! In the two examples I gave, Selene is the witche's pawn, and Olra was Grethe's.
Ahh I gotcha! Thanks for the clarification.
Agreed. I want more content with our pawn in the game, both romance and friendship. They're the only ones who deserve our love without any questions. And no, they're not brainless and especially not emotionless. They can enjoy things, laugh, be sarcastic, show displeasure and they do have personalities like any of us. They simply doesn't have enough will to make most decisions on their own. But even that they can get through the journey with their Arisen and become human after their master death.
Thats in dark arisen, in 2 they get all that without us having to die for it though unfortunately we both end up dying, it would be interesting if they didn't and the Pawn kept thier free will with us still being alive, though i would expect we would have to use a wakestone for them if they went down
Yes, I think, too, that they gain free will, although they don't become human bc the rift/oblivion essence they're made of is trying to subdue them.
They'd probably end up an odd mix part pawn with free will and part human
Ever since I saved Selene and her Arisen said she was a pawn, I wanted a chance to grant my main pawn free will and romance them. It would have been so sweet, and would be a nice final touch to the game
Imagine they were all like " No thanks mate il Pass" and left you standing watching them slowley ride off on an Ox Cart. Would be soul destroying
Ha xD yes indeed
This is actually very possible for dlc content considering the original themes of bitter Black Isle. A pawn centric dlc across the ocean is heavily hinted at with all the dialogue and flavored text
What I think is that the scripted romances in this game are incredibly thin to the point of being worthless. Ulrika and Wilhelmina aren't so much characters as they are plot points to help explain an idea that is poorly implemented in this game and in Dragon's Dogma in general (the Affinity System). So when you spend so much time with your Pawn, both at the character creation section and in the game proper, seeing them or wanting to see them as a romantic choice is really, really easy to do and want to do. It's not like the options presented by the game are better, and choosing who you want from the NPC's is a crapshoot at best. But if you've played the first game and played the second, then wanting to have a romance with your Pawn just sounds...like you're setting yourself up for disappointment when the game fumbles with it. Because if I saw the option as DLC, I'd be afraid of what the devs would do. And I really like this game. Honestly, I think that instead of romance, it would be better to further explore free will and the will of the Pawns and your bond with your Main Pawn. It's kinda there already, so it wouldn't be hard for the devs to implement something like that into whatever DLC they make for the game. And if they did, then I would really like it if your Main Pawn (with a high enough Affinity) gave you a gift of their own volition at random intervals along with additional dialogue about the act depending on Inclination (though a tsundere Straightforward Pawn would be interesting to see). Maybe have their dialogue about protecting the Arisen be more proactive or doting, just as long as it's clearly different from Hired Pawns. Maybe at a campsite, the bonus stats for cooking happens automatically and there can be dialogue indicating that the Main Pawn cooked for the Arisen if the Main Pawn has the food item in their inventory. And if your Arisen gets their green health dropped to zero, it would be cool if the Main Pawn can run over and auto-heal you with a healing curative in either your inventory or theirs. Just little things that make you feel like...your Pawn truly cares for your well-being and is starting to realize just how much they care (beyond you being the Arisen) as they gain their own Will. I would like that. EDIT: If the Affinity System was just you and your Main Pawn and their growing Will and how they interact with you, I think it would make the Affinity System a whole lot better and people would be happier. And you wouldn't get another Aelinore/Ulrika/Wilhelmina situation where the "romance" is forced on you until the end where you end up with a random NPC because you talked to them before you reached the Dragon.
You should look up the first games romance, there's a romancable pawn. He's a sweet softy.
A lot of people haven't reached the true ending or saying things like "No because of DD:DA we all know how that went" or saying "Pawns are just mindless slaves they can't say no". In Dark Arisen Ashe refused to decided wether to sacrifice Olra or choose to kill Grette who turned into a dragon. His indecision caused Grette to kill Olra and turn Ashe into Daimon. Olra then transferred her soul into the body of an Arisen. Nowhere in that was it wrong for Ashe to love Olra, Olra began to show a will of her own which enabled her to slowly reciprocate Ashe's love. In Dragon's Dogma 2 the pawns are substantially more willful than in Dark Arisen. If you go to the mining prisoners camp on Agamen you can see how many of the pawns detest their forced servitude. They are forced to cooperate due to the godsway. They will beg or express anger when you interact with them. Your most loyal pawn depending on affinity will start to develop feelings for you and will go against their "purpose" in order to free the world from the cycle. Your pawn will repeatedly tell you how much they cherish their bond with you, how they constantly felt your presence due to the bond, how they started to experience emotions that they could've never imagined, how they wish to remain with you for all time, or in the case of my pawn, complain about how crowded the house is and wish it was you two. There are a myriad of quests and mechanics that glean you into the fact that pawns aren't tools or slaves. From the Agamen ruins mining camp, to the affinity system, phantom oxcart quest, the godsway, the true ending, and the much hated dragonsplague. https://preview.redd.it/yobnwdrsviyc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ba60bd510e3aed219dbd817a53b6697e80df099 The pawns natively have fledging wills of their own.
Your pawn looks a lot like my brother
I made mine look like my brother as a kid so....no.
I specifically made a voluptuous cat women with a big ass sword so I could love her and she could cradle me in a big muscley arms. Just to be let down...it's not fair. They played us like a damn vielle!!!
Romances are fleeting in this world. In the last game, there was a strong connection with the Arisen and their pawn. You know how that ended up. That connection is on a much deeper level someone who is beloved. They transcend time with you and carry on your will. They are not lovers, but they are bound to each other from beyond the cycle
They really did a great job with the pawns this time. Not that they were bad in DDDA. I loved the pawn system in DDDA. It's just so much better in DD2. Only thing I miss is the knowledge system from DDDA. The three stars and the knowledge triggers made it feel more thorough. But pawns definitely have more personality.
No. I don't think that.
You mean the souless demi humans who can't consent? I'm so sick of this topic cause it proves you didn't pay attention. Pawns are literally souless and likely can't even feel love in the human sense. On top of that their only purpose is to follow you blindly. They will throw themselves at an unwinnable battle that guarantees death just because you say so. They do all those things you listed not out of love but out of the fact that they are puppets. It's engraved into them to support the arisen completely. The only sign of "free will" is looked upon with fear from the dragon plague because it's a literally anything other than fully supporting us goes against the fundamental concept of their existence. Their only "free will" is a disease dude. They are called pawns for a reason. It is fucked that so many people think it would be oh so cute to fuck their pawn who would be physically unable to say no to them
They're not completely soulless. They have a sliver of your soul, as it is you who created them, and through interaction with them, they can slowly become truly human. As is the case with Selene in DD1. She was a pawn, but was made fully human, her pawnprint completely disappearing. Also, I'd not say it's fear of free will with the Dragonsplague, but the fear of them losing themselves and going on a rampage. Much like the Arisen's pull on their Pawns, the Dragonsplague *forces* them to turn into a dragon and kill everything in the immediate area, besides apparently you. We also see it at the end of the game where the pawn is forced to change, but fights against it, and with high affinity...they have a will of their own. I'd give them free will in a heartbeat if I could during the course of the game, but as it stands, I do agree that wanting anything more while they can't consent is messed up and shouldn't be considered, but that's why the OP mentioned giving them free will. So, I'd say you didn't read the post, and just saw the title and replied.
I wasn't saying it's a fear of their free will. Instead that their "free will" is associated with danger because dragon plague is the only way they can refuse you. I'm also putting free will in quotation because it's still not their free will it's the dragon plague. So literally any semblance of them being human is looked upon with fear. If you can't graps the fact that even if the arisen gave them free will the arisen would still have power over them and it would be a predatory relationship. "I GAVE you free will so can we go out now?" If you can't see the issue there then we're done here and I hope you have a great day
I know you used quotes, but I think you're missing my point. As you said, Dragonsplague doesn't give them free will. It's a plague. It's also the farthest thing from being any sort of semblance of humanity, as it forces them to become a corrupted dragon and kill an entire town. It's a horrifying disease that harms them more than helps. So, I disagree with putting those two things together, even vaguely. However, I'm on your side, my friend. I said nothing about them owing the Arisen or forcing them to do anything against their will, free will or not. And anyone who does do that will find a million magic arrows locked onto them, as my Arisen and I don't play about treating your Pawns right. If they chose to leave after getting free will, I'd be sad to see them go, but happy they get to choose their life, free of servitude. I'd wave them goodbye and tell them to enjoy life. I'd also be more than happy if they chose to stay.
in that case, is it really worse to have sex with a pawn verses sending them into unwinnable battles that guarantees death?
One is r×pe. You tell me buddy
the other is actual murder. If we want to be completely ethical, it's better to just dismiss your pawn entirely and play solo
Clearly the ethical thing is to kill em first then fuck the body
You've already commanded them tk fight for you, it's only natural that you also command them to fuck you? Kinda sketchy, bud
You've said it well. Even if they had proper will power / souls, the natural power imbalance just makes it gross. They can't really feel anything unless the Arisen is around? That gives the Arisen such an upper hand that there would never be a healthy relationship there. This is why slave girls in anime is such a trend, dudes either don't know or don't care about that imbalance. They feel like they will be 'one of the good ones.' It's pretty gross.
Agreed. It's a disgusting part of this community. "No I'd treat my pawn right" type shit.
I really can't understand why such a large part of this community is ok with starting a "relationship" with someone with such a huge power imbalance. In the game, your pawn supposedly falls for your arisen before the game ends( rosy cheeks and all that). They don't have free will at that point.
Genuinely no unless we're talking about a post-endgame Pawn that has their free will unlocked. Even then, for me: no. The pawns are basically machines programmed to follow and be loyal to you, it's artificial. I think it's a little skeevey for them to be the Arisen's beloved when the Arisen basically molded them out of clay and commands them to do their bidding. Yes pawns can eventually change and become autonomous from their Arisen but it's still creepy when you're the one who made them. Massive power imbalance.
Nope, your pawn doesn't have free will until the very end of the game. Before that, they are essentially magically bound to you and have no will when you are around. I'll get downvoted for the third time fuck it, it's a weird power imbalance. The arisen makes their pawn down to the personality. I would be more cool with it if they weren't glorified slaves created by the arisen, and they could tell you no on a whim. The only time they tell the arisen no is when they either have a disease or they literally can not complete whatever task you ask of them. If they had free will the whole time, then I would feel more comfortable with romancing the pawns. It's just a game, and I'm talking about the implications of the circumstances in the game and in its lore. I said the same shit when I played DD1.
Did you follow Dark Arisen? Because in that DLC it was literally about a guy who couldn't choose between his pawn beloved or his dragon Arisen/pawn beloved which turned him into thing he becomes. Sooo... It's possible for that to happen. Also you pawn in dd2 falls for you if you have a high enough affinity too.
Yea I played ddda an ungodly amount with multiple saves. He fucked up the order because he refused to kill his dragon. Also, I know your pawn falls for you in dd2 and your pawn gains free will once you have enough affinity and you get to the end of the game. However, most of that game, your pawn is just a pawn. And they're incapable of not doing what you want them to except for the conditions I mentioned before. Honestly, it's just something that I find really weird. I get people wanting to romance their own pawns, but the implications there are really awkward for me. I had this convo with some friends, and we all agreed that it felt weird, but we couldn't really pin down why after accounting for the pawn having free will. For me, I if I was the arisen, I don't feel like the pawn owes me anything. I just feel really weird about dating someone that I created. It feels icky.
That's completely understandable. I would feel weird too. But, what about the other pawns that other arisens made? Like Selene or Barnaby? Is it wrong to romance them because they're pawns too? This is an interesting subject to discuss tbh. Also he fucked up the order because the dragon was the old Arisen who he loved and was raised by. Her pawn became his pawn and they fell in love so when the choice came I couldn't choose fucking up the order.
Ok, so it feels wrong for the same reason as before. Pawns are duty bound to assist any arisen. They have no will outside of this. They don't really have the will to ignore the arisen's demands. It feels slightly less weird because you didn't make those pawns
I get what ya mean. But relationships between Arisen and pawn vary. Let's say you are the Arisen and you have your pawn. Just because you see them as family doesn't mean other Arisens before you had that type of relationship with their pawns. It's like with Pokemon. Some people want to bang their Pokemon while some don't.
Oh, I don't see my pawn as family. I made them, but I'm not their father. I've been tryna work this out. The closest I've gotten is the idea that I made everything about you and since that is the case I feel weird about messing with you like that. It feels like a slope that is too slippery for my liking. Now with other pawns, it's about power. A Pokémon can make the resist you or not. Pawns.... not so much.
Nah I'd find it bizarre actually. The Pawns are just puppets sworn to your service so it's kind of an awkward dynamic for a romance.
If Pawn lore wasn’t needlessly 3/5th compromise, sure.
We are Dukepilled
In defense of the game, at least they explored this in Dark Arisen, hope they reserve some dark and weird topic to tackle on a new dlc for 2 as well
In a way, they're enslaved to us, as we can do whatever the hell we want with em. Maybe there should be a optional quest after the end game where players can set them free. But then that would conflict with the main gimmick of the game.. I'm sure there'll be mods for it soon
Mf’s pawn be like 🔵👄🔵
>I just find it contradicting that it's controversial for the Arisen and the pawn to love each other when the game literally decides our beloved for you and that's acceptable somehow. Pawns are not human. It's very easy to not really understand through gameplay, but they are essentially golems in the shape of man in order to make the Arisen more trusting of them. They exist solely to do whatever you want, no questions asked and no real criticism of how you go about it. They don't have souls of their own, and there's only been few instances of a Pawn gaining a soul in the lore at large. There's also the fact that even if they gained a soul, them falling in love with you would be considered Stockholm Syndrome and you taking advantage of that would be considered morally wrong.
My pawn or wilhelmina
#PAWNRIGHTS!
I am replaying the 1st game to refresh myself with the story and gameplay as I would have never guess a 2nd one would come out when I played DD in 2012. Pawns were portrayed as emotionless beings similar to humans but not humans, the idea of them feeling love would be contradictory to that portrayal. However it does make sense that the person traveling with you throughout your whole journey would turn out to be your true love. Unfortunately I feel a pawns thoughts about their master more so resembles admiration versus actual love or love interest. Similar to a dog’s infatuation with their owners. I do wish the devs had went another route and made pawns more like actual humans and had given them a love interest factor for the Arisen. Would have made cosplaying characters from shows or books that traveled with a companion that turned out to be their true love at the end of the story all the sweeter
Same. I was so happy when I finally got my pawn to blush 😍 I wish he could be my beloved. https://preview.redd.it/39xduowr5iyc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f7c7900a52298f57f7694cd1818b6f860e0f685
No. I am their creator, so I feel more like their parent and them my child that skipped all the annoying years.
My thoughts exactly.
No i don't Have i got anything against anyone who does want that? No i don't either. I feel the pawn blushing is just a consequence of them obviously being put in the same Affinity mechanic as everyone, i feel they were put in that group because it was easy to get the point across of your pawn "growing" but if they could've they would've had them on their own system not tied to "romance" Basically it was cheaper and easier to put the pawns into a already existing system mechanic to get the message they was trying to say across than come up with a whole new system just for them. But it wouldn't have took much just to exclude pawns from blushing i hear you say, yeah well it wouldn't have took much to let players cook in their own home either but we never got that as-well. I consider my Pawn my closest Allie and friend but not my lover.
What a gaff
I don't know.. ulrika seems pretty deserving to me.
So you just took every other post here for the last month and put in question form… smh
Rook suddenly becomes the main protagonist in a harem anime
Dunno, it's kind of like being in love with a pet, they'll love you no matter what
Not really. Pawns don’t love the Arisen for their personality etc. They only love them because they are Arisen and they are created specifically to aid the Arisen no matter what. So no, the one who deserves to be the Arisen’s beloved is the one who loves the Arisen for real with an unmolested motive.
The power dynamic is kinda sketch, don't you think?
It's... Complicated, but not actually. You are literally making someone in the image of your ideal person. When they first arrive, they have no free will of their own. They are obedient and in your service. Simply put, they cannot actually consent to your romantic feelings, because they are bound to you, to obey you, as all pawns are to the Arisen. To romance them is to force yourself onto them. That said... Later in the game, with a mixture of high enough affinity showing them physically blush toward you (reminder, you can have max affinity with a child, but they will never treat you like a lover, for obvious reasons), and them gaining free will, to choose on their own, it becomes more clear the pawn is no longer simply an obedient slave. Instead, you groomed them into loving you before their free will became present. Given how all dark fantasy is based around medieval culture and ideals, this isn't abnormal, per Se, for the time period. But what is social acceptable isn't always what's morally acceptable, so don't groom your pawns into loving you, and don't try to romance your pawns. Yes, they are cute. You literally made them in your ideal image. THAT JUST MAKES IT WORSE.
I'd love my pawn, but not as a romantic partner, but as something deeper than a sibling. If I were in the Arisen's position, I can't see myself ever developing a romantic connection to my pawn because it would be extremely one sided and just wrong. Even if they were to acquire a will of their own and be functionally human, it would still be a heavily biased relationship because I made them. A situation like Olra and Ashe is a bit more acceptable, in my opinion.
No. The Pawn should be considered the Arisens Family Member or close to it in all honesty. Even the game tells you so, that's if you paid attention. I'm not keen on being in a relationship with someone or some thing that is essentially our Doll. They can't consent and it'll be extremely weird, as Pawns are like children or our actual child in a sense aswell.. They're all learning of our world, we teach them, we are meant to guide them. To help them grow up and learn their duty as the Arisens Pawn. Not to get down n dirty with them. Just because someone made their Pawn their ideal perfect person, doesn't mean they were made to satisfy that. Edit of course here comes the downvotes, I just find the power balance between Arisen and Pawn to be severely weird and essentially you just repeating what we are actively trying to stop in DD2's story.. To stop the false Arisen and free Pawns from mind control.
I don't know where you got that info on the family part but if you go back to Dark Arisen then that family part goes out the window.
Olra is not Ashe's original pawn tho
"Ashe took Olra as his main Pawn - but in a cruel twist of fate, the Great Dragon captured Olra and it offered Ashe its choice - either defeat it or sacrifice Olra. However, as the Dragon was also the husk of Grette, the choice was essentially sacrifice his love or kill his surrogate mother." -lore
There's still a lot of theories about whether or not ashe truly had his own main pawn,main argument for that is always awakened daimon But yeah still Olra is not Ashe's original created pawn and had some sort of free will from
Olra was created by Grette though, not Ashe.
Ashe took Olra as his main Pawn - but in a cruel twist of fate, the Great Dragon captured Olra and it offered Ashe its choice - either defeat it or sacrifice Olra. However, as the Dragon was also the husk of Grette, the choice was essentially sacrifice his love or kill his surrogate mother.
I remember back in the DD and DDDA days this question was posed many times, and most people agreed that pawns are like the child of the Arisen, as in they learn everything they know from the Arisen. If the Arisen would go after someone like that, well that would be grooming.
Feels a lil rapey but ok...
No
I agree cause I have a slave fetish, and being my female pawn's dommy mommy sounds like fun but I'm pretty sure that it should be morally wrong for normal people and there is no way to justify it🤔
I don't think so because the Pawns are not human beings. The Arisen and normal humans/beastren have the capacity to have their own powerful will, but Pawns do not. Pawns lack the ability to freely choose because they are beings from the Rift, and it is a strict part of their nature to serve the Arisen no matter what. The whole beloved mechanic is too superficial to really matter, but having the Pawn be a candidtae just kind of goes against how the game portrays their relationship to the Arisen. It is not entirely mutual because the Pawns are automatically compelled to have affinity to the Arisen, hence why they are ultimately just called "Pawns".
No, I feel like a pawn is my sibling/mentee
No, gross. Unless they’re freed from being my pawn, no fucking way.
Only the ones who don't have a girlfriend/boyfriend IRL. Which is most of us.
Not even that. It's just overall, a weird thing to discuss or want. It's like you'd basically be grooming your own pawn for your own gain.
in the words of Yahtzee: "... Even better, now I'm pimping the mentally subnormal!... "
That Brine-hopping moron? Certainly not!
At the end of the day pawns aren’t even human they just look like it. They are pulled out of a void as is to serve the arisen. Some pawns can become human but doesn’t that involve the arisen dying or something like the little witch girl in the first game idk it’s been awhile since I really tapped into the lore
That was kinda why I made mine a beastren :(
I always preferred that pawns don't fall in love with their arisen because it has some weird connotations to it. I like when they are simply your best friend and you bestow your spirit to them when you become seneschal. Though I guess it doesn't matter in dd2 because you don't become seneschal.
No I don't want my pawn that has no will of their own and does everything I say to be my beloved. That's really weird and all of you that keep wanting this are weird.
😬
I don't know how comfortable I am being in a relationship with someone who used to call me master
The idea of romancing a pawn always felt weird to me. I mean their emotionless and lack will of their own by definition. I mean how can you two even be good friends if they're obligated to be what you want them to be and their temper is chosen? It's creepy.
Yeah nothing bad has ever happened from givin' yer Pawns the ol' sticky wickit. https://preview.redd.it/3h93ht0nz8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59fe50c26b9e1b5cf34a3b256ee22ffb2fec8e01
Aaand we got another one who didn't bother to read DDDA story. Bitterblack isle happened bc of his inability to choose between his beloved (who was already a human when she chose to accompany him) and his former teacher and adoptive mother. He poorly chose words and cursed the cycle, and the Dragon accepted it as his wish. Not bc he wanted to bang a pawn 🙄
Oh no, you don't find my joke funny? I'm devastated :(
Pygmalion and Galatea are the mythical equivalent of this. Read some of the modern psychological analysis on \*that\* "relationship" and come back. "I always knew you were special..." I would prefer an \*Ex Machina\* style ending for every Arisen who gets involved with their Pawn. I feel like they're a sweet but desperately sycophantic employee sometimes. Just not into the brainless praise and absolute lack of life outside of me. The NPCs actually have their own stuff going on. Like actual people. The lack of free will is a huge ick for me. What am I, some loser celebrity who hires a fan to be their assistant and then dates them? It's all a huge non-starter for me. If I need mindless fawning praise, I'll get a dog. If my arisen wants an actual relationship, they'll go find an actual person, and not one they have total authority over. Getting with my pawn, the power imbalance literally in the name, is not an attractive idea to me
They will literally do anything you want them to and they are slaves. Thats all they know. However mine is constantly telling me that they hate not being by myside and only feel safe when they are. Im putting that down to the AI knowing im gna save thier ass before mine
They're slaves.. so no. It's weird. The whole concept is a little weird if you think about it in a non video game way. They should've changed it to where the pawns have free will but they are loyal to the arisen because only arisens are capable of bringing them into existence. Then them being loyal and helping you would just be a favor or have some familial esc motivations. They'd be thankful for you using your powers to create them and want to make sure you succeed.
NOO, PAWNS CANNOT DISOBEY YOU, THEY ARE, ESSENTIALLY, WILLING SLAVES, YOU DON'T MARRY SLAVES, YOU DON'T MARRY SOMEONE WHO OBEYS COMMANDS AT WILL
Stockholm Syndrome
I feel like with the >!high pawn affinity ending the pawn should ask the Arisen a multiple choice question that slightly alters the ending based on choice!<. i wish there was more choice with the Wilhelmina quest ending >!next time, I'm getting Allard arrested!<
Your pawn is basically a slave, yes they are a lot more like people on this game than the previous one (thank god) but they are legitimately shaped by the will of the Arisen to be given form. They can become real people and develop free will after the Arisen has died or become the seneschal but that’s it. Prior to that they are compelled to follow the Arisen. That’s the whole point of the godsway narrative. Which is why it’s disturbing to me so many people treat theirs like slutty dress up dolls to make bang maids.
We way I saw it,pawns are basically kinda your child,like they wouldn't even exist without you,and they only gain free will from you