Absolutely. If you run MLD (which is fine) and I have a chance to make it hurt you as it hurt us, I will. Every time. Next time I bet they’ll hold up a flawless in preparation.
This is why the only MLD I have in ~15 decks is [[Obliterate]] in [[Gerrard weatherlight hero]]. No one has lands, but I kept all my rocks and creatures. We can play it out, but it won't take very long.
"When Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero dies, exile it and return to the battlefield all artifact and creature cards in your graveyard that were put there from the battlefield this turn."
The Gerrard player keeps his creatures and mana rocks.
>This is why the only MLD I have in ~15 decks is [[Obliterate]] in [[Gerrard weatherlight hero]]. No one has lands, but I kept all my rocks and creatures. We can play it out, but it won't take very long.
The Gerrard player has already used that up, per his own words.
I dont understand what you're pointing out.
If you have Gerrard on the field and you cast Obliterate, it wipes the board of lands, creatures and artifacts. Gerrard triggers, returning your artifacts and creatures. Nowhere in that quote does he mention anything else.
It's my fault I brought up a different scenario involving the only MLD I run as part of explaining why I don't run it in many decks that could. The thread got a bit slippery cause of that.
Not sure what life totals are, but if you're an aggressive red deck, most likely you should be able to recover quickly and benefit from having fewer opponents.
Burn everything down and go for the jugular.
Edit: Re-reading your post, playing "a deck with red" could be just about anything, lol. I guess there's more to consider if you're not particularly aggressive. Do you have card advantage over them, or visa versa? Who has more rocks, or other non-land non-creature board presence? How much fun do you personally have playing that specific deck? Do you need to go to the bathroom really bad?
Your edit is exactly my thought process. While I've only ever been on the receiving end of one Armageddon (people at my LGS just don't play it), it would really depend on a lot of other information about whether I would cast a blasphemous act. I've definitely held a board wipe knowing I wouldn't recover as fast as the other player. If all I'm doing is slowing the game without much chance to actually change the outcom, I'd rather play a new game. But if I've got a full grip of cards, mana rocks and cheap ways to put damage on them, you bet I'll cast that wipe and go for the win.
It sounds like you’re playing two games at once. This game of commander, and a wider social game of making these other three people happy. Ignoring that second game, it becomes obvious that you should play the board wipe and see if you can regroup. But no one here is really in a position to tell you which game’s outcome is more important to you.
right on. I think sometimes people meta-game too much in the sense that the game at hand suffers due to considering potential future games. "Be here now", dawg
of course, like all things in life it ultimately comes down to balance
>it ultimately comes down to balance
Nah, [[Balance]] is banned in EDH. Best we can get is [[Magus of the Balance]] or a free [[Restore Balance]] off of a cascade trigger if you've been good.
In my pod I'd probably reveal the blasphemous act and ask if everyone else wants to shuffle up and call it a draw. The point of the game is to have fun, and while I'd enjoy playing a game out from that state, I'd also normally have the same fun just starting another game.
So like many hypotheticals and questions on this subreddit, literally just ask in person as it comes up. Frank communication
Cast Blasphemous Act. Because it won't be the slogfest people think it would be. At least not when 2 or 3 players were in killing range.
I had those situations (similar ones) and just last month I had someone cast \[\[Worldfire\]\] because it was their only out and someone exiled their indestructible commander.The game was kinda fun from that point onward. The Oloro player was relaxed because they gained 2 per turn, I drew Ancient tomb and Talisman the next two turns and we laughed, the deck with worldfire was screwed and the last player had a bird typal deck and went on taking the worldfire guy and me out. We two then proceeded to eagerly watch the race of the Oloro Lifegain and the Bird deck. Birds won. It was funny and not a slog. We drew cards fast and if it wasn't a land it was "go." Turns were like 5 seconds, there was no slog.
If it enters a public zone (Exile, graveyard) then when stare based actions are checked, you have the option to move it.
If it would enter a private zone (hand, library) then you have the option to send it to the CZ.
The point was exiling because it was indestructible. Since worldfire gets rid of all lands and all other zones basically, it doesn't matter where the commander ends up ^^
If you are at a table that agrees to MLD in advance, that comes with the territory. That miserable fucking slog is one of the biggest reasons “no MLD” is one of the first things in most pregame discussions.
If you are not at a table that agrees to MLD in advance, explicitly, then there should never be a surprise Armageddon.
Blasphemous Act not being a fun card to play? You are weird man, boardwipes are hilarious and it's always a good time to mess with others board and plans.
Personally, I would have played the blasphemous act and immediately scooped to shuffle up and play a new game and ask the player to play a different deck. I'm a sucker for mind games and nothing messes with people more when you've moved them out of their position of power into a position of nothingness and give them the win. It's a mental paradox that the person will spend the next game trying to figure out what just happened and it will throw them off probably for the remaining games of the night.
Boardwipes are *not* "hilarious and always a good time"... Some boardwipes are necessary, but others just prolong a game that's already over. This one is totally justified, because a MLD player should deal with the consequences of their deck choices. All too often, though, people use them in lieu of targeted removal, when they could just blow up a specific problem or two, and proceed with the game as before.
I can't agree, it's always a good time when anyone messes with others board state and I thoroughly enjoy boardwipes and resets. It gives me a chance to come back and if I can come back, the game wasn't over at all.
It's not over til it's actually over, imaginary wins doesn't count and it doesn't matter if you think it's over, if it isn't actually over. But hey, you are free to forfeit the game at any time, when you feel it's over for you.
Edit: I think I should point out that you are actually quoting me wrong. I didn't write "boardwipes are hilarious and always a good time". I wrote "boardwipes are hilarious and it's always a good time to mess with someone's board and plans".
I wholeheartedly agree that people should mess with each others' boardstates. I love playing high levels of Magic, up to and including cEDH (Niv-Mizzet gang). However, especially at lower power levels, all too often, boardwipes will soft reset the game. To me, I'd rather play 3 quick 45min games than a single 2:15 game, and by the time the third and fourth wipes come down, you're easily staring at the 3hr mark. I'll also absolutely give a pass to unequal boardwipes. Destroy all non-artifacts, in a Myr deck? Hell yeah, that's an I-win card. Destroy all creatures with 2+ power, in a weenies deck? Sweep it all out. The ones I have problems with is when a player is massively behind, so they wipe out the player that should've actually won, with no follow-up. The winner just rebuilds and wins, and you're now down an extra 30min of rebuilding. Use target removal, use countermagic, or majorly break parity on your wipes, and I'll be totally happy about it. Just don't drag a game out for hours after it should have ended.
It's not over til it's over and you don't get to decide it's over just because you don't like how someone plays, exactly like nobody gets to decide the game is over just because of how you play.
But you are free to forfeit ofc, if you only want fast games and feel like you are wasting your time at that table.
All true statements. I'm also free to play my mostly-creatureless combo deck that runs enough counterspells to deal with anything the casual table wants to do, and enough rituals to go faster than the rest. But I'm not gonna do that either. Since we're all operating under the general social contract, it is POLITE not to continuously boardwipe just because you can't win. Lose with pride and shuffle up a stronger deck. Or even the same one, if you just drew poorly. But don't drag everyone else's evening through the mud just because you're not doing well.
Games play out how they play out. You cannot predict the way things will progress with 400 cards on the table. All you can do is make what you think the best play is and move on from there. Nuke everything and see who can rebuild faster.
Yea, blasphemous act the Armageddon player back to the same turn 1 as everyone else. No brainer
Hey, my opponent through rock? I have paper in my hand. AITA? Like wtf.... they already did the dick move.... give it right back.
I play EDH to have fun. I usually aggressively play for the win, but I've been in scenarios where I'm in a game that's been going for 2 hours and chose not to play the board wipe and prolong the game. But to answer your question if there's time to play another game I would just let the game end quickly so we can shuffle up and play another game.
Always do the best possible play, period.
I'm here to play MTG, even at low power I'm expecting people playing to what they judge is the best play they have available. Sandbagging is disrespectful in itself.
It's not sandbagging to concede if you have a low shot at getting your outs and the rest of the table is out. I'm not gonna force us to play draw-go because I'm too stubborn to give up. Now - if I had good stuff in my hand, maybe I'm sticking in the game. But just the boardwipe? I'm conceding for sure.
This is more of a moral question than anything else. The correct play if your sole goal is to win, would be to play the blasphemous act and blow out the Voja player, however, would you have the capability to win relatively quickly? (Say within the next 5-6 turns). If not I would pass without casting anything and let the Voja player win for the sake of playing more games with more people involved.
It depends on what you want out of your commander games and how much time you are willing to spend grinding a game out while people watch.
I try to make the game end with all opponents being removed from the game within 1-3 turns of each other, that way it’s unlikely someone will sit out of a game for an hour (extreme example here). You will also get more games played in one session, which is great for someone like me who builds decks almost daily it seems.
If I top deck the only card in my library that's going to save me in a very sad situation, you bet I'll play it. It's not my fault my opponent has cast Armageddon. And I believe even in the saltiest of tables, my former opponents are going to be rooting for me to do it.
Cast the blast act, make both of us play it out. There is a reason most commander players don't use MLD: it's a pain socially and game wise.
The only way you get people to figure that out is getting burned. In this case, it makes no sense to do MLD. He could have just as easily had a Teferis protection, an Akromas will, clever concealment or any other way to protect his board, and then swing. Armageddon is just nasty unless your deck has a way to get benefits out of it.
Me, I've been in similar scenarios where I've got a wipe but know it just leads to the game taking longer than I would like. In the scenario, I'll say "I have a wipe/card X, I can play it or we can call this a draw and play another game!"
Usually, everyone is okay with that. Wins and losses don't matter - this is a hobby, a game, and it should be fun.
I edited to add: I'd probably ignore the posts that amount to "you should antagonize your friends".
Here’s my opinion:
In a competitive game, you gotta cast the blasphemous act. That’s a no brainer.
In a casual game, it would be polite to reveal the blasphemous act and ask the table if they are willing see how things will play out. If you or anyone else doesn’t suggest that they would enjoy seeing the outcome, then agree to end the game there move on.
It's a fallacy that MLD slows the game down. If you have no lands or other permanents in play, you draw your card, if it's a land, play it and pass, if not, just pass. There is no reason for it to take forever for a table to recover from Armageddon or [[Jokulhaups]].
People will put up with 15 minute Simic Breathing Tribal or eggs solitaire turns but won't tolerate 2 minutes of draw -> go following an Armageddon because some clown on a podcast told them that MLD was bad. It's absurd.
Given your note about being the one who plays Armageddon, my question to you would be what would you do after the blasphemous act is cast?
If you are justifying Armageddon as a way to close out games, when it becomes clear that your plan didn't work out, you also have a decision to make.
Would you concede and shuffle up for the next one if your opponent cast a blasphemous act in this situation?
Yeah, unless there's a good reason outside the game for me not to, like if it's 45 minutes until the game store closes and I wanna jam another deck real quick.
I’m playing blasphemous act. Even if I don’t win sometimes it’s about sending a message. To note I don’t have a problem with mass land destruction I even have a deck with some in it but if you play it and can’t end the game I want to make it hurt
I think you would have been better off casting an overrun effect or an extra combat and not give your opponent the chance to go mountain -> blast act
Overrun, overwhelming stampede, akroma's will, all better cards to be playing than Armageddon based on my experience. Like if you want to do the MLD thing for fun you can, but if you're building for power I think you're better off just killing your opponents asap. Naya has so many ways to pump up your creatures for a finish that are more reliable than an Armageddon.
Just cast it and play from there, you can always concede afterwards if you don't have a chance to win (or if you don't want to continue such a long game). 1v1 plays faster anyway.
I swing into them with whatever I have, the boardwipe. I run like 3 decks with blas act and all of them are built to come back from a wipe. Ill slug out, especially if I have a couple mana rocks
I play Armageddon in two decks and it’s the all-in card: I’m either winning the game off it or I’m getting punished hard. Either way, the game doesn’t end up taking much longer
Similar thing happened to me this past weekend. I did not cast the board wipe. I died next turn. I think I would have won, eventually, but we were two hours into our first game and wanted to move on.
I don't really have any issues with MLD if it is cast in the way you describe, inherently breaking parity with the expectation that it will win you the game.
I do lose interest in the vast majority of games after we start crossing the 90 minutes or 10 turn mark (I will completely amicably concede to a stax lockout that has produced a deterministic win, but I don't want to sit through it), one of the reasons I don't play a lot of precon games is they are often wipe heavy without great ways to close the game.
This situation, for me, would come down to other factors. If it is early in the game, or I still have 7 cards or a draw engine that will survive, or really any plan to pivot, I'm casting the wipe. If we are 2.5 hours in, and everyone is top decking, I'm probably not casting my Act, or telling anyone I had it, and letting Voja free us from the game so we can shuffle up again.
I'm here to win. I'll play Blasphemous Act every single time. The game is only a slog now because someone brought MLD to the game.
Moral of the story - MLD is never an auto win. I *will* make you play it out, otherwise Jokulhaups, Armageddon, etc are all errata'd to read "Win the game."
Dude if someone Armageddons I feel like I'd either be dejected and want to go straight to round 2 or I'd want some blood. Depends on how I'm feeling that day.
You play the Blasphemous Act, and pointedly remind people that the reason they can't play the game anymore is because of the Armageddon player. Then you pass all of the money from the pot in the middle of the table that made it Optimal to play mass LD in a casual format to the Armageddon Player and profoundly praise them for their Optimalness. Then you give them a trophy and increase their EDHREC Ranking to ProTour Ready. (Okay so all but the first sentence was sarcasm, but, it would fully be the fault of the MLD player in this situation (if it were a competetive, i.e. tournament, setting, feel free to blow up every land as soon as it's played..,. but not in casual social magic))
depends on what I've seen so far, a lot of white decks I play against have indestructible effects or protection on the regular basis so if they have mana open then I wouldn't play it. Otherwise I definitely will make them suffer and play it
I'd cast the boardwipe then ask my opponent if they want to keep going, attempting to reason that we're both at pretty much nothing so it'd be just the same as if we started from scratch, perhaps reasoning that we call it a draw.
If I have outs, I'm playing them. The only time I go next is when I'm so far behind when I'm playing a deck that I know well enough to know there's no coming back.
I cast the blasphemous act and then offer a draw. If they don’t go for it I’ll just concede and go next. Don’t really feel like playing a 1v1 from the ground up while two people wait it out personally but also I’m going to make that voja player have the protection spell.
I play the card every time. If I have a chance to win I'm going to try and win. There's no point in an empty victory and I don't want to win finding out that my opponent had a way to stop me and decided to just give me the win. That feels so empty. Not only that but as a red deck I likely have a quicker way of winning post-boardwipe
If someone played armageddon and didn't have a plan to end the game, that's on them. They destroyed your lands leaving B act as your only play.
Grind the game to a halt. If they want to scoop they can.
Had basically this situation in a recent game. Format was all-foil Commander Cube.
Azorius player had an Enchantment that made all permanents enchantments. Gruul player killed myself and the fourth player. Azorious player played a board wipe that cleared everything. Azorious player rebuilt faster than the Gruul player and won.
Importantly, they both played super fast as they could. Myself and the other spectator enjoyed the spectacle, it was a great and well earned win.
How is this boring? If I win in this situation that’s a story I’m going to tell forever! Plus with just 2 players and 0 lands the turns will be pretty fast. Just draw play a land if you got it then pass
If the others weren't knocked out I'd 100% cast the Act. As this easily makes it a 3 vs 1 against the Armageddon player who just spent a bunch of resources. Given that the other two have been knocked out I'd probably just let them kill me for the win because noone likes to sit for more than an hour while having to listen to two people complain about how boring the game you don't get to play in is 🤣
That was the whole conceit of this post. They *did* have a wincon, but the opponent had the perfect answer that would only require one land drop to deploy. The MLD player did the thing everyone says they need to do (have a quick ready to go), but then op has the opportunity to put the game into the state people say MLD players should avoid. Basically, is the OP now to blame for the game resetting to 0, or did everyone do what they were supposed to, and the reset is just the result of everyone playing it out.
An Armageddon, in and of itself, isn't a win con. It just seizes the game from moving forward. So if you are doing that, you should being able to win the game in that moment, in which case, the blast act doesn't matter because no one will see their next turn.
Depends on my hand.
Can I possibly rebuild faster with what’s in my hand than my opponent? If all I have is just the land and Blasphemous Act, I’ll take the L and move on. If I got lands and creatures to rebuild faster, I’m going for it.
Some comments are missing the point because for some winning is more fun than anything else.
The MLD was already cast and at that point all is fair. But your question warrants another, are you guys on a time crunch? Would you rather lose and go to game 2 instead of doing the objectively best play and trudging through a rebuilding phase?
If you and your group would be ok with that and nobody has anywhere to be then yeah sure no problem.
We get questions like these on the daily and more often then not the answer depends on your playgroup. In mine, I've maid it clear that if you play durdle stax (Arbiter) with no real concern for the table's enjoyment then I'm taking you out first.
Tell your table, if you're playing MLD, which is renowned for being in bad taste, then they can suffer through another boardwipe or forfeit.
Idl why you'd have aslog? The next few turn should pass quickly as there are few game actions to take, this is THEIR fault for running MLD. You said 2 players were out, A 1v1 GAME SHOULD ONLY LAST 10-15 minutes
Even without the Armageddon in the picture, I would still act blasphemously. Why would I hold back a board wipe when faced with an army that wiped out two other players?
Edit: in this hypothetical, just burn it all, call it a draw and shuffle up.
Without more information (time restrictions, do other 2 opponents have something else they can do, etc), I'd play my next turn then offer them the draw. Demonstrate that you can ruin their game plan, do it, then move on together to play another game. If they don't take the draw then I can just scoop (I don't care that much about winning).
I'll just add that with some of my grindier decks, I'd absolutely love to play this out. Generally though, I'd take a line toward another game.
Cast the board wipe on the Voja player every time. If you're going to put MLD in an already oppressively powerful deck, I'm doing my best to make that game as unpleasant as I possibly can and then I'm finding a new pod.
Definitely cast the blasphemous act. For a few reasons
1) if you don't it reinforces to the other player that MLD doesn't have its drawbacks when in situations that would seem positive for them. They have to know it has its risk (even though I think they used the MLD properly, I would also have no issues with them making this move to win the game. It's a good play) but when you take risky moves to win, sometimes it doesn't work out. All cards have drawbacks and when the social contracts of commander eliminate those drawbacks it makes it less interesting.
2) this is the point of board wipes. When you're behind it helps you catch up. That's what it would do here.
3)I feel like it would be an exciting play. If I were one of the players at the table and this situation happened it would be so funny and entertaining to me that the game basically got restarted because somebody tried to win the game and somebody had the answer to stop them. The excitement comes from the answer to Armageddon. I would be telling the story of the infamous blasphemous act for years to come. Especially if the Armageddon player lost that game 😂
Cast the act and play out the game in the way the Armageddon forced.
Absolutely. If you run MLD (which is fine) and I have a chance to make it hurt you as it hurt us, I will. Every time. Next time I bet they’ll hold up a flawless in preparation.
This is why the only MLD I have in ~15 decks is [[Obliterate]] in [[Gerrard weatherlight hero]]. No one has lands, but I kept all my rocks and creatures. We can play it out, but it won't take very long.
In the scenario referenced in this post, your fate is exactly the same as the aggressive player, is it not?
Blasphemous Act won't hit their mana rocks
So he has mana rocks. No creatures and no lands tho. We still sit at a slow grind now.
"When Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero dies, exile it and return to the battlefield all artifact and creature cards in your graveyard that were put there from the battlefield this turn." The Gerrard player keeps his creatures and mana rocks.
>This is why the only MLD I have in ~15 decks is [[Obliterate]] in [[Gerrard weatherlight hero]]. No one has lands, but I kept all my rocks and creatures. We can play it out, but it won't take very long. The Gerrard player has already used that up, per his own words.
Oh disregard I see, you are referring the OP scenario not a the entirely separate discussion. my bad.
I dont understand what you're pointing out. If you have Gerrard on the field and you cast Obliterate, it wipes the board of lands, creatures and artifacts. Gerrard triggers, returning your artifacts and creatures. Nowhere in that quote does he mention anything else.
Nah it also depends on what's on his hand as well and how many mana rocks are still on the field under their control
The point of Act was that it got rid of the Aggro player’s creatures. Gerard player here still loses his creatures.
It's my fault I brought up a different scenario involving the only MLD I run as part of explaining why I don't run it in many decks that could. The thread got a bit slippery cause of that.
If you have 5 mana and your opponents have 0 than you can most likely rebuild quite fast
If no one has anywhere to be, you bet your ass I'm making them suffer through the consequences of their actions.
Not sure what life totals are, but if you're an aggressive red deck, most likely you should be able to recover quickly and benefit from having fewer opponents. Burn everything down and go for the jugular. Edit: Re-reading your post, playing "a deck with red" could be just about anything, lol. I guess there's more to consider if you're not particularly aggressive. Do you have card advantage over them, or visa versa? Who has more rocks, or other non-land non-creature board presence? How much fun do you personally have playing that specific deck? Do you need to go to the bathroom really bad?
Your edit is exactly my thought process. While I've only ever been on the receiving end of one Armageddon (people at my LGS just don't play it), it would really depend on a lot of other information about whether I would cast a blasphemous act. I've definitely held a board wipe knowing I wouldn't recover as fast as the other player. If all I'm doing is slowing the game without much chance to actually change the outcom, I'd rather play a new game. But if I've got a full grip of cards, mana rocks and cheap ways to put damage on them, you bet I'll cast that wipe and go for the win.
It sounds like you’re playing two games at once. This game of commander, and a wider social game of making these other three people happy. Ignoring that second game, it becomes obvious that you should play the board wipe and see if you can regroup. But no one here is really in a position to tell you which game’s outcome is more important to you.
Also sorry to make it sound like I’m putting the explanation on you when you’re asking a hypothetical. I was talking to the hypothetical you lol.
right on. I think sometimes people meta-game too much in the sense that the game at hand suffers due to considering potential future games. "Be here now", dawg of course, like all things in life it ultimately comes down to balance
>it ultimately comes down to balance Nah, [[Balance]] is banned in EDH. Best we can get is [[Magus of the Balance]] or a free [[Restore Balance]] off of a cascade trigger if you've been good.
[Balance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce648aa3-098b-4af0-a433-fd290bc85904.jpg?1580013606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/2/balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce648aa3-098b-4af0-a433-fd290bc85904?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/balance) [Magus of the Balance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e63074e4-2c4c-411c-b320-c90d3a4a96d0.jpg?1674141148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/699/magus-of-the-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e63074e4-2c4c-411c-b320-c90d3a4a96d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-balance) [Restore Balance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39.jpg?1619393357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restore%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/36/restore-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/restore-balance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Very well put. I don't think either answer is necessarily wrong, though I personally think the latter is more important.
Turnabout is fair play. Cast the boardwipe and don't look back.
I put cards in my decks to play them.
In my pod I'd probably reveal the blasphemous act and ask if everyone else wants to shuffle up and call it a draw. The point of the game is to have fun, and while I'd enjoy playing a game out from that state, I'd also normally have the same fun just starting another game. So like many hypotheticals and questions on this subreddit, literally just ask in person as it comes up. Frank communication
Cast Blasphemous Act. Because it won't be the slogfest people think it would be. At least not when 2 or 3 players were in killing range. I had those situations (similar ones) and just last month I had someone cast \[\[Worldfire\]\] because it was their only out and someone exiled their indestructible commander.The game was kinda fun from that point onward. The Oloro player was relaxed because they gained 2 per turn, I drew Ancient tomb and Talisman the next two turns and we laughed, the deck with worldfire was screwed and the last player had a bird typal deck and went on taking the worldfire guy and me out. We two then proceeded to eagerly watch the race of the Oloro Lifegain and the Bird deck. Birds won. It was funny and not a slog. We drew cards fast and if it wasn't a land it was "go." Turns were like 5 seconds, there was no slog.
I thought that a commander who enters exile, graveyard or your hand would be returned to the command zone instead?
If it enters a public zone (Exile, graveyard) then when stare based actions are checked, you have the option to move it. If it would enter a private zone (hand, library) then you have the option to send it to the CZ.
The point was exiling because it was indestructible. Since worldfire gets rid of all lands and all other zones basically, it doesn't matter where the commander ends up ^^
[Worldfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2ef3d4b5-0453-4bf0-b018-23b0c3b9ae11.jpg?1631531850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/158/worldfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ef3d4b5-0453-4bf0-b018-23b0c3b9ae11?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldfire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you are at a table that agrees to MLD in advance, that comes with the territory. That miserable fucking slog is one of the biggest reasons “no MLD” is one of the first things in most pregame discussions. If you are not at a table that agrees to MLD in advance, explicitly, then there should never be a surprise Armageddon.
Sorry what’s MLD?
Mass land destruction. Things like Armageddon.
Thank you! Happy cake day!
Mass Land Destruction
Thank you!
no problem mate there's already enough stuff to learn with this game, on top of all the jargon that's evolved
No no, evolve is that one where the critter gets a +1/+1 counter on it if you play something else that's bigger.
I'd play the Act in a heartbeat, no hesitation. It's not your fault someone played Armageddon when they couldn't actually end the game
Blasphemous Act not being a fun card to play? You are weird man, boardwipes are hilarious and it's always a good time to mess with others board and plans.
I'm a freak for board wipes, I was just curious if people would play it in this specific scenario.
There's only one answer, ALWAYS play the board wipe if it sets your opponents back and gives you a chance to come back.
Personally, I would have played the blasphemous act and immediately scooped to shuffle up and play a new game and ask the player to play a different deck. I'm a sucker for mind games and nothing messes with people more when you've moved them out of their position of power into a position of nothingness and give them the win. It's a mental paradox that the person will spend the next game trying to figure out what just happened and it will throw them off probably for the remaining games of the night.
Literally nobody would have that problem at anywhere near the severity or duration you're describing.
Boardwipes are *not* "hilarious and always a good time"... Some boardwipes are necessary, but others just prolong a game that's already over. This one is totally justified, because a MLD player should deal with the consequences of their deck choices. All too often, though, people use them in lieu of targeted removal, when they could just blow up a specific problem or two, and proceed with the game as before.
I can't agree, it's always a good time when anyone messes with others board state and I thoroughly enjoy boardwipes and resets. It gives me a chance to come back and if I can come back, the game wasn't over at all. It's not over til it's actually over, imaginary wins doesn't count and it doesn't matter if you think it's over, if it isn't actually over. But hey, you are free to forfeit the game at any time, when you feel it's over for you. Edit: I think I should point out that you are actually quoting me wrong. I didn't write "boardwipes are hilarious and always a good time". I wrote "boardwipes are hilarious and it's always a good time to mess with someone's board and plans".
I wholeheartedly agree that people should mess with each others' boardstates. I love playing high levels of Magic, up to and including cEDH (Niv-Mizzet gang). However, especially at lower power levels, all too often, boardwipes will soft reset the game. To me, I'd rather play 3 quick 45min games than a single 2:15 game, and by the time the third and fourth wipes come down, you're easily staring at the 3hr mark. I'll also absolutely give a pass to unequal boardwipes. Destroy all non-artifacts, in a Myr deck? Hell yeah, that's an I-win card. Destroy all creatures with 2+ power, in a weenies deck? Sweep it all out. The ones I have problems with is when a player is massively behind, so they wipe out the player that should've actually won, with no follow-up. The winner just rebuilds and wins, and you're now down an extra 30min of rebuilding. Use target removal, use countermagic, or majorly break parity on your wipes, and I'll be totally happy about it. Just don't drag a game out for hours after it should have ended.
It's not over til it's over and you don't get to decide it's over just because you don't like how someone plays, exactly like nobody gets to decide the game is over just because of how you play. But you are free to forfeit ofc, if you only want fast games and feel like you are wasting your time at that table.
All true statements. I'm also free to play my mostly-creatureless combo deck that runs enough counterspells to deal with anything the casual table wants to do, and enough rituals to go faster than the rest. But I'm not gonna do that either. Since we're all operating under the general social contract, it is POLITE not to continuously boardwipe just because you can't win. Lose with pride and shuffle up a stronger deck. Or even the same one, if you just drew poorly. But don't drag everyone else's evening through the mud just because you're not doing well.
Games play out how they play out. You cannot predict the way things will progress with 400 cards on the table. All you can do is make what you think the best play is and move on from there. Nuke everything and see who can rebuild faster.
if armageddon == True: blasfemous\_act = True
Yea, blasphemous act the Armageddon player back to the same turn 1 as everyone else. No brainer Hey, my opponent through rock? I have paper in my hand. AITA? Like wtf.... they already did the dick move.... give it right back.
I play EDH to have fun. I usually aggressively play for the win, but I've been in scenarios where I'm in a game that's been going for 2 hours and chose not to play the board wipe and prolong the game. But to answer your question if there's time to play another game I would just let the game end quickly so we can shuffle up and play another game.
I would play it and with the biggest grin in my face ever!
Always do the best possible play, period. I'm here to play MTG, even at low power I'm expecting people playing to what they judge is the best play they have available. Sandbagging is disrespectful in itself.
Sometimes the best play is what ends the game quickest so you can shuffle up and start a new game.
It's not sandbagging to concede if you have a low shot at getting your outs and the rest of the table is out. I'm not gonna force us to play draw-go because I'm too stubborn to give up. Now - if I had good stuff in my hand, maybe I'm sticking in the game. But just the boardwipe? I'm conceding for sure.
This is more of a moral question than anything else. The correct play if your sole goal is to win, would be to play the blasphemous act and blow out the Voja player, however, would you have the capability to win relatively quickly? (Say within the next 5-6 turns). If not I would pass without casting anything and let the Voja player win for the sake of playing more games with more people involved. It depends on what you want out of your commander games and how much time you are willing to spend grinding a game out while people watch. I try to make the game end with all opponents being removed from the game within 1-3 turns of each other, that way it’s unlikely someone will sit out of a game for an hour (extreme example here). You will also get more games played in one session, which is great for someone like me who builds decks almost daily it seems.
[Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) [Blasphemous Act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a.jpg?1698988297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blasphemous%20Act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/216/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasphemous-act) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If I top deck the only card in my library that's going to save me in a very sad situation, you bet I'll play it. It's not my fault my opponent has cast Armageddon. And I believe even in the saltiest of tables, my former opponents are going to be rooting for me to do it.
Cast the blast act, make both of us play it out. There is a reason most commander players don't use MLD: it's a pain socially and game wise. The only way you get people to figure that out is getting burned. In this case, it makes no sense to do MLD. He could have just as easily had a Teferis protection, an Akromas will, clever concealment or any other way to protect his board, and then swing. Armageddon is just nasty unless your deck has a way to get benefits out of it.
Me, I've been in similar scenarios where I've got a wipe but know it just leads to the game taking longer than I would like. In the scenario, I'll say "I have a wipe/card X, I can play it or we can call this a draw and play another game!" Usually, everyone is okay with that. Wins and losses don't matter - this is a hobby, a game, and it should be fun. I edited to add: I'd probably ignore the posts that amount to "you should antagonize your friends".
Here’s my opinion: In a competitive game, you gotta cast the blasphemous act. That’s a no brainer. In a casual game, it would be polite to reveal the blasphemous act and ask the table if they are willing see how things will play out. If you or anyone else doesn’t suggest that they would enjoy seeing the outcome, then agree to end the game there move on.
It's a fallacy that MLD slows the game down. If you have no lands or other permanents in play, you draw your card, if it's a land, play it and pass, if not, just pass. There is no reason for it to take forever for a table to recover from Armageddon or [[Jokulhaups]]. People will put up with 15 minute Simic Breathing Tribal or eggs solitaire turns but won't tolerate 2 minutes of draw -> go following an Armageddon because some clown on a podcast told them that MLD was bad. It's absurd.
[Jokulhaups](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99d26ff7-afff-40a0-b515-7928c2428809.jpg?1559592472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jokulhaups) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/100/jokulhaups?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99d26ff7-afff-40a0-b515-7928c2428809?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jokulhaups) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Given your note about being the one who plays Armageddon, my question to you would be what would you do after the blasphemous act is cast? If you are justifying Armageddon as a way to close out games, when it becomes clear that your plan didn't work out, you also have a decision to make. Would you concede and shuffle up for the next one if your opponent cast a blasphemous act in this situation?
I mean me personally, I run Armageddon with full intent to play out any outcome. I mean, it's Voja, I stuffed the deck full of dorks.
Would you cast the blasphemous act?
Yeah, unless there's a good reason outside the game for me not to, like if it's 45 minutes until the game store closes and I wanna jam another deck real quick.
This seems like the typical example if playing MLD without a soldi plan behind it. MLD without guaranteeing the Win is always a bad move.
I would do it, because if the Voja player wants to play with armageddon, then they get to suffer the consequences.
I’m playing blasphemous act. Even if I don’t win sometimes it’s about sending a message. To note I don’t have a problem with mass land destruction I even have a deck with some in it but if you play it and can’t end the game I want to make it hurt
I think you would have been better off casting an overrun effect or an extra combat and not give your opponent the chance to go mountain -> blast act Overrun, overwhelming stampede, akroma's will, all better cards to be playing than Armageddon based on my experience. Like if you want to do the MLD thing for fun you can, but if you're building for power I think you're better off just killing your opponents asap. Naya has so many ways to pump up your creatures for a finish that are more reliable than an Armageddon.
I don’t run boardwipes unless they’re one-sided, but I would play through if someone else did this.
Just cast it and play from there, you can always concede afterwards if you don't have a chance to win (or if you don't want to continue such a long game). 1v1 plays faster anyway.
I swing into them with whatever I have, the boardwipe. I run like 3 decks with blas act and all of them are built to come back from a wipe. Ill slug out, especially if I have a couple mana rocks
Of course I will play BA
Show the act and ask if we can agree to scoop and start a New game. If no, cast the act and make sure the others know what happend.
I would cast the act and then offer a draw so we can quickly start a new 4 player match.
I play Armageddon in two decks and it’s the all-in card: I’m either winning the game off it or I’m getting punished hard. Either way, the game doesn’t end up taking much longer
I'm of the opinion that you play what you can. If you can turn probable loss to a window, you do
Cast it. There are any number of damage prevention pitch spells in white that they could have.
The goal is to win the game. Yes, I want everyone to have fun, but I’m not going to throw the game because of it.
I'd cast it if I had a feasible chance to win, otherwise I'd be happy to call it and move on to the next game
Similar thing happened to me this past weekend. I did not cast the board wipe. I died next turn. I think I would have won, eventually, but we were two hours into our first game and wanted to move on.
I don't really have any issues with MLD if it is cast in the way you describe, inherently breaking parity with the expectation that it will win you the game. I do lose interest in the vast majority of games after we start crossing the 90 minutes or 10 turn mark (I will completely amicably concede to a stax lockout that has produced a deterministic win, but I don't want to sit through it), one of the reasons I don't play a lot of precon games is they are often wipe heavy without great ways to close the game. This situation, for me, would come down to other factors. If it is early in the game, or I still have 7 cards or a draw engine that will survive, or really any plan to pivot, I'm casting the wipe. If we are 2.5 hours in, and everyone is top decking, I'm probably not casting my Act, or telling anyone I had it, and letting Voja free us from the game so we can shuffle up again.
I'm here to win. I'll play Blasphemous Act every single time. The game is only a slog now because someone brought MLD to the game. Moral of the story - MLD is never an auto win. I *will* make you play it out, otherwise Jokulhaups, Armageddon, etc are all errata'd to read "Win the game."
Dude if someone Armageddons I feel like I'd either be dejected and want to go straight to round 2 or I'd want some blood. Depends on how I'm feeling that day.
I'm windmill slamming the act. I'm not responsible for the long drawn out game, the person who destroyed the lands is.
You play the Blasphemous Act, and pointedly remind people that the reason they can't play the game anymore is because of the Armageddon player. Then you pass all of the money from the pot in the middle of the table that made it Optimal to play mass LD in a casual format to the Armageddon Player and profoundly praise them for their Optimalness. Then you give them a trophy and increase their EDHREC Ranking to ProTour Ready. (Okay so all but the first sentence was sarcasm, but, it would fully be the fault of the MLD player in this situation (if it were a competetive, i.e. tournament, setting, feel free to blow up every land as soon as it's played..,. but not in casual social magic))
depends on what I've seen so far, a lot of white decks I play against have indestructible effects or protection on the regular basis so if they have mana open then I wouldn't play it. Otherwise I definitely will make them suffer and play it
I'd cast the boardwipe then ask my opponent if they want to keep going, attempting to reason that we're both at pretty much nothing so it'd be just the same as if we started from scratch, perhaps reasoning that we call it a draw.
If I have outs, I'm playing them. The only time I go next is when I'm so far behind when I'm playing a deck that I know well enough to know there's no coming back.
I cast the blasphemous act and then offer a draw. If they don’t go for it I’ll just concede and go next. Don’t really feel like playing a 1v1 from the ground up while two people wait it out personally but also I’m going to make that voja player have the protection spell.
I’d make the objectively correct play and not think twice about it.
prizes on the line - > you play it out and blasphemous act. no prizes for fun game? let them win.
I play the card every time. If I have a chance to win I'm going to try and win. There's no point in an empty victory and I don't want to win finding out that my opponent had a way to stop me and decided to just give me the win. That feels so empty. Not only that but as a red deck I likely have a quicker way of winning post-boardwipe
If someone played armageddon and didn't have a plan to end the game, that's on them. They destroyed your lands leaving B act as your only play. Grind the game to a halt. If they want to scoop they can.
Had basically this situation in a recent game. Format was all-foil Commander Cube. Azorius player had an Enchantment that made all permanents enchantments. Gruul player killed myself and the fourth player. Azorious player played a board wipe that cleared everything. Azorious player rebuilt faster than the Gruul player and won. Importantly, they both played super fast as they could. Myself and the other spectator enjoyed the spectacle, it was a great and well earned win.
id play the act. only the winner wins, the other lose
How is this boring? If I win in this situation that’s a story I’m going to tell forever! Plus with just 2 players and 0 lands the turns will be pretty fast. Just draw play a land if you got it then pass
If the others weren't knocked out I'd 100% cast the Act. As this easily makes it a 3 vs 1 against the Armageddon player who just spent a bunch of resources. Given that the other two have been knocked out I'd probably just let them kill me for the win because noone likes to sit for more than an hour while having to listen to two people complain about how boring the game you don't get to play in is 🤣
Play the act and offer a draw
If you have MLD, and then cast it, you should really be ending the damn game at that time.
[удалено]
I more meant that the Armageddon player should probably have a win con.
That was the whole conceit of this post. They *did* have a wincon, but the opponent had the perfect answer that would only require one land drop to deploy. The MLD player did the thing everyone says they need to do (have a quick ready to go), but then op has the opportunity to put the game into the state people say MLD players should avoid. Basically, is the OP now to blame for the game resetting to 0, or did everyone do what they were supposed to, and the reset is just the result of everyone playing it out.
An Armageddon, in and of itself, isn't a win con. It just seizes the game from moving forward. So if you are doing that, you should being able to win the game in that moment, in which case, the blast act doesn't matter because no one will see their next turn.
Depends on my hand. Can I possibly rebuild faster with what’s in my hand than my opponent? If all I have is just the land and Blasphemous Act, I’ll take the L and move on. If I got lands and creatures to rebuild faster, I’m going for it.
Some comments are missing the point because for some winning is more fun than anything else. The MLD was already cast and at that point all is fair. But your question warrants another, are you guys on a time crunch? Would you rather lose and go to game 2 instead of doing the objectively best play and trudging through a rebuilding phase? If you and your group would be ok with that and nobody has anywhere to be then yeah sure no problem. We get questions like these on the daily and more often then not the answer depends on your playgroup. In mine, I've maid it clear that if you play durdle stax (Arbiter) with no real concern for the table's enjoyment then I'm taking you out first. Tell your table, if you're playing MLD, which is renowned for being in bad taste, then they can suffer through another boardwipe or forfeit.
I would play Blasphemous Act and then call it a draw.
Idl why you'd have aslog? The next few turn should pass quickly as there are few game actions to take, this is THEIR fault for running MLD. You said 2 players were out, A 1v1 GAME SHOULD ONLY LAST 10-15 minutes
Even without the Armageddon in the picture, I would still act blasphemously. Why would I hold back a board wipe when faced with an army that wiped out two other players? Edit: in this hypothetical, just burn it all, call it a draw and shuffle up.
Without more information (time restrictions, do other 2 opponents have something else they can do, etc), I'd play my next turn then offer them the draw. Demonstrate that you can ruin their game plan, do it, then move on together to play another game. If they don't take the draw then I can just scoop (I don't care that much about winning). I'll just add that with some of my grindier decks, I'd absolutely love to play this out. Generally though, I'd take a line toward another game.
Cast the board wipe on the Voja player every time. If you're going to put MLD in an already oppressively powerful deck, I'm doing my best to make that game as unpleasant as I possibly can and then I'm finding a new pod.
Scoop in response to the Armageddon. For the game to be at that point it must have already gone on for at least an hour, my time is precious.
Definitely cast the blasphemous act. For a few reasons 1) if you don't it reinforces to the other player that MLD doesn't have its drawbacks when in situations that would seem positive for them. They have to know it has its risk (even though I think they used the MLD properly, I would also have no issues with them making this move to win the game. It's a good play) but when you take risky moves to win, sometimes it doesn't work out. All cards have drawbacks and when the social contracts of commander eliminate those drawbacks it makes it less interesting. 2) this is the point of board wipes. When you're behind it helps you catch up. That's what it would do here. 3)I feel like it would be an exciting play. If I were one of the players at the table and this situation happened it would be so funny and entertaining to me that the game basically got restarted because somebody tried to win the game and somebody had the answer to stop them. The excitement comes from the answer to Armageddon. I would be telling the story of the infamous blasphemous act for years to come. Especially if the Armageddon player lost that game 😂
I wouldn't play a game with someone that has Armageddon in their deck
Bro fuck them for even running Armageddon. Blow his shit up