Tesla's stock made more or less the same movement and now sits at half of its maximum. Still worth a lot, but MANY people have been burned in the process.
i think i'd be ok with top ten i mean the list is pretty nice [https://companiesmarketcap.com/germany/largest-companies-in-germany-by-market-cap/](https://companiesmarketcap.com/germany/largest-companies-in-germany-by-market-cap/)
I don't know if you can compare them. Other than Tesla Nvidia is making so fucking much cash. And other than cars, AI has a growth potential to the fucking technological singularity.
Or someone develops an ai model that doesnt require such an amount of gpu raw power and its good buy earnings.
The potential of ai might very well also be nvidias problem at some point ^^
>The potential of ai might very well also be nvidias problem at some point ^
Everybodys problem. But until then Nvidia will own half of the world. My brother is service admin, he told me that customers are currently doubling and tripeling the IT departments just to get the model trained let alone integrate them into the business.
Exactly. We don't know if AI will be the future.
Or if maybe a competetor wins the race.
Like intel Gaudi.
Or the SEC decides to go against Nvidias Antitrust policies.
Still risky tho
Intel would not even win the race as the only competitor. They have a long tradition of completely missing important trends like the internet, Smartphones, lower power consumption, data center and now ai. Their attempt of getting into the GPU market in 2024 shows that they're 15 years behind.
Eeeh. I don't know about rhat.
Hardware for intel grafic cards is great, just the software is okay.
And the neweste CPUs look also great.
They just had issues scaling down their transistors, but that seems to be an issue of the past.
I wouldn't count intel out yet
Biggest problem isn't the power to run them, but to train them.
7B parameter models run on MacBooks with okay generation speed, but training them still requires half a datacenter. And there are models 20x the size which you can basically only afford to train if you are Microsoft, Facebook, (Google), Amazon or Nvidia.
What has to be shown is that they'll actually provide an economic benefit to vast amounts of businesses, that's the only way to justify their value.
What are you talking about, the financial markets are the most rational and objective institutions in existence. The highly educated, financially literate elites would never fall victim to things like herd mentality, hype or misleading marketing!
Sarcasm, says an English proverb, is the lowest form of wit. The combination of malice and irony does not have a good reputation—yet it is a tough nut for the human brain to crack. A group of medical doctors and psychologists from Israel has now shown that understanding sarcastic remarks requires the finely tuned cooperation of various brain regions. [source](https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/reife-leistung-wie-der-geist-sarkasmus-versteht-a-357135.html)
We're on reddit. Most ppl here don't even have brain regions, but singular brain cells randomly firing, me included. That's why the /s is so important.
Several large german companies are private. In germany there is less stock culture than in the US. REWE, Schwarz Gruppe, Bosch are some of the top 30 Companies in Germany (by sales volume) and are private companies. This heavily extends to smaler companies. While in the US even a lot of mid-small companies have a stockticker its pretty rare in germany.
Wouldn’t say that they are underpriced. Germany will face some huge challenges and small growth in the near future as in the next decade(s) (rising population but actually shrinking part of overall value adding population, rising energy costs and more). Also germanys top companies are older and not expanding (that fast) but focus more on keeping their value and paying dividends. With that in mind and in the context of current short term interest on saving accounts their price seems only a little undervalued to just right for me.
Every country will face huge challenges. Some german companies are old, others are not. Many of them keep expanding tho. Then looking at their crucial role for the worlds economy, they are underpriced.
Hell no. Im german and I'd never invest into German companies. Nvidias net income is up 600% from last year. Sap is down 300% and Siemens is down 40%, those are the 2 biggest German companies by market cap and they look awful.
DAX still had profits of 120 billion in 2023. Can't entirely rule out that NVIDIA will top it at one point but diversification being a thing, it seems sensible to chose DAX.
Honestly far left here is usually just "kill Nazis" and putting stickers on lampposts which I'm not even sure I'd deem political, it's the moderate left doing the political push.
Look at their profile, they tick all boxes. Racist as hell, women hater, it's quite clear what their motivations for their statement is.
"Oh, they're green and progressive so they must be evil incorporated"
Was läuft den schief am deutschen Aktienmarkt?
Der steht nur knapp 100 Punkte unter seinem Allzeit-Hoch dass er vor wenigen Wochen erst hatte. Allgemein hat der Dax nach kurzen Übergangsschwierigkeiten eigentlich die gesamte Wahlperiode Ampel über immer und immer mehr an Wert dazugewonnen.
ich dafür umso schlechter. Alleine die Steuerpolitik der AFD ist absolut bodenlos. Mal von den Fantasien des EU-Austritts mal ganz abgesehen, was Wirtschaftliche Folgen hätte, die ihr euch anscheinend nicht ausmalen könnt. Aber wir können gerne über die Steuerpolitik und die anderen Punkte zivilisiert diskutieren, falls deine Meinung auch etwas Substanz haben sollte.
AFD Wähler sind einfach so engstirnig. Sie wollen um jeden Preis den Islam und Flüchtlinge loswerden, Selbst wenn das bedeutet eine Partei zu wählen die quasi für China und Russland Landesverrat begeht und steuerpolitisch Verschlechterungen für 95% ihrer eigenen Wähler herbeiführen würde. Klingt für mich nicht sonderlich patriotisch oder attraktiv. Ich wähl doch auch nicht die NSDAP, nur weil sie Arbeit und Brot verspricht?
Und ich dachte wir wären mit unserer Historie und der Tatsache, dass das 3. Reich 10x in der Schulzeit behandelt wird quasi immun gegen so billigen Populismus. Naja, history repeats.
Meine Hauptsächlichen Beschwerden liegen darin wie Sie momentan als Staatsfeind Nummer 1 präsentiert werden nur weil Sie eine Opposition Darstellen die den Grünen nicht passt. Man könnte behaupten, dass ich das aus trotz tu und ob dir das Gefällt ist mir egal. CDU zu wählen ist mir zu Riskant, weil sonst eine CDU / Grün Koalition in Frage kommt und sowas würde ich persönlich niemals unterstützen.
>Meine Hauptsächlichen Beschwerden liegen darin wie Sie momentan als Staatsfeind Nummer 1 präsentiert werden nur weil Sie eine Opposition Darstellen die den Grünen nicht passt.
Das Stimmt nicht. Die Grünen haben nochmal wie viele Stimmen? Die AFD wird also als Staatsfeind abgestempelt, weil sie den Grünen nicht passen, ja? Also ist ganz Deutschland (die ADF ausgeschlossen) jetzt grün? Werden sie auch von den CDUlern als Staatsfeinde beschimpft, weil die CDUler so viel Symapthie gegenüber den Grünen hegen? Ach bitte..
Die AFD wird als Staatsfeind abgestempelt, weil es erwiesen ist, dass gewisse AFD Politiker Gelder aus Russland bekommen, oder weil es erwiesen ist, dass Nazis innerhalb der Parteistruktur vertreten sind und das auch nicht gerade wenige. Oder vielleicht, weil sie Pläne schmieden die EU zu verlassen, was desaströse Folgen für Deutschland hätte? Wegen so Dingen vielleicht? Neeeeeein, sicher sind wieder die grünen Schuld, weil die ja eh an allem Schuld sind, was euch gerade nicht passt. 1940 war man Sündenbock, wenn man einer gewissen Ethnik angehörte und heute sind die grünen an allem Schuld. Einfach lächerlich, ohne irgendwelche belege so stumpfen Populismus nachzuplappern. Natürlich schreibt sich die AFD nicht "Nazi" auf die Stirn, glaubst du die NSDAP hat damit geworben die Juden zu vernichten? Die NSDAP wurde gewählt weil sie Brot in einer Hungersnot versprachen und Arbeit versprachen. Populismus eben, vielleicht solltest du das nochmal nachschlagen.
> Man könnte behaupten, dass ich das aus trotz tu und ob dir das Gefällt ist mir egal. CDU zu wählen ist mir zu Riskant, weil sonst eine CDU / Grün Koalition in Frage kommt und sowas würde ich persönlich niemals unterstützen.
Nazis aus trotz wählen, junge junge, mein Opa würde sich im Grab umdrehen.
Es ist mir egal was du wählst, jeder sollte nach seinen persönlichen Interessen wählen. Mein Punkt ist nur der, dass die AFD deine Interessen einen Scheiß interessiert, auch wenn du da vielleicht jetzt anders denken magst. Die AFD betreibt einfach billigen Populismus um gewählt zu werden, Du persönlich bist denen doch scheiß egal, sofern du nicht 200k+ jährlich verdienst. Auch du hättest unter einer AFD Regierung mit den Konsequenzen zu kämpfen, du verstehst es einfach nur noch nicht.
>Also ist ganz Deutschland (die ADF ausgeschlossen) jetzt grün?
Woher genau hast du die Information, dass ganz Deutschland gegen die AFD ist? Wie erklärst du dann über 20% Stimmen für die AFD in den Vorwahlen?
>
Werden sie auch von den CDUlern als Staatsfeinde beschimpft, weil die CDUler so viel Symapthie gegenüber den Grünen hegen? Ach bitte..
Gegenfrage: Wieso wurde die CDU für die Correctiv Doku nicht an den Pranger gestellt obwohl Sie mit 3x so vielen Teilnehmern an der "Wannseekonferenz", wie sie so schön bezeichnet wurde, anwesend waren?
>
Die AFD wird als Staatsfeind abgestempelt, weil es erwiesen ist, dass gewisse AFD Politiker Gelder aus Russland bekommen, oder weil es erwiesen ist, dass Nazis innerhalb der Parteistruktur vertreten sind und das auch nicht gerade wenige.
Genauso ist erwiesen, dass Andere Parteien aus Anderen Ländern Geld bekommen. Wieso stellst du unsere momentan Führung nicht als Marionette Amerikas dar? Linksradikale sind genauso vertreten aber bekommen keine Beachtung? Warum? Wohl nicht etwa, weil Sie die Agenda unserer momentanen Führung nachverfolgen und daher vorteilhaft für die Politiker sind, oder?
>
Nazis aus trotz wählen, junge junge, mein Opa würde sich im Grab umdrehen.
Du bist der Grund warum ich und mindestens 1/5 der Deutschen Bevölkerung AFD wählen werden. Sie sind keine Nazis nur weil DU das so sagst. Du kannst die Taten einzelner nicht auf eine ganze Partei spiegeln sonst müsstest du absolut jede Partei verachten.
>Gegenfrage: Wieso wurde die CDU für die Correctiv Doku nicht an den Pranger gestellt obwohl Sie mit 3x so vielen Teilnehmern an der "Wannseekonferenz", wie sie so schön bezeichnet wurde, anwesend waren?
Also ich persönlich habe das ebenfalls in den Medien thematisiert gesehen, du etwa nicht?
>
Genauso ist erwiesen, dass Andere Parteien aus Anderen Ländern Geld bekommen. Wieso stellst du unsere momentan Führung nicht als Marionette Amerikas dar? Linksradikale sind genauso vertreten aber bekommen keine Beachtung? Warum? Wohl nicht etwa, weil Sie die Agenda unserer momentanen Führung nachverfolgen und daher vorteilhaft für die Politiker sind, oder?
Da gebe ich dir Recht, das ist aber IMMERNOCH kein Grund dann die AFD zu wählen? Unsere Momentane Führung (Scholz) ist vielmehr Russland als USA Marionette, vielleicht schaust du dir hierzu nochmal Scholz politische Vergangenheit an...
>Du bist der Grund warum ich und mindestens 1/5 der Deutschen Bevölkerung AFD wählen werden. Sie sind keine Nazis nur weil DU das so sagst. Du kannst die Taten einzelner nicht auf eine ganze Partei spiegeln sonst müsstest du absolut jede Partei verachten.
1. Der Grund weshalb 1/5 der Deutschen die AFD wählt ist, dass die soziale Gerechtheit in Deutschland immer ungerechter wird und die AFD Wähler glauben, die AFD wäre die Lösung des Problems. Nochmal, Populismus eben.
2. Ich verachte so ziemlich jede Partei, da hat die AFD bei mir keinerlei Sonderrecht. Trotzdem würde ich beim liebsten willen nicht auf die Idee komme, diese Idioten zu wählen. Von der politischen Inkompetenz mal ganz abgesehen.
1. Du könntest dir auch Andere hobbies suchen als mich über mehrere Posts hinweg zu verfolgen. Es wird nichts an meiner Entscheidung oder meiner Begründung Ändern. Du kannst dich gerne für den schlausten halten und mich für einen Idioten, juckt mich nicht im geringsten.
>Da gebe ich dir Recht, das ist aber IMMERNOCH kein Grund dann die AFD zu wählen? Unsere Momentane Führung (Scholz) ist vielmehr Russland als USA Marionette, vielleicht schaust du dir hierzu nochmal Scholz politische Vergangenheit an...
>
Du hast das Gegenargument mit der Russland Marionette gebracht. Für mich war das irrelevant und daher spielt auch Scholz Vergangenheit keine Rolle für mich. Ich hab dir nur deinen Wiederspruch vorgehalten. Ausserdem sollte dir doch klar sein, dass Scholz Vergangenheit völlig egal ist weil er nur eine Repräsentative Rolle spielt. Der Bundestag entscheidet was passiert. Er hat nur ein paar mehr Möglichkeiten als Andere.
>Der Grund weshalb 1/5 der Deutschen die AFD wählt ist, dass die soziale Gerechtheit in Deutschland immer ungerechter wird und die AFD Wähler glauben, die AFD wäre die Lösung des Problems. Nochmal, Populismus eben.
Du kannst nicht für mich oder Andere Sprechen. Deine Fantasie zu den Begründungen hat nichts mit den eigentlichen Gründen zu tun. AFD Wähler gehen die AFD Wählen, weil die Grünen Sie als Rechtsradikale Nazis abstempeln und die Normale Bevölkerung sieht, was für ein dummes Populistisches Geschwätz das ist. Und ja, jede Partei bedient sich dem Populismus den du bei der AFD verurteilst aber Andere damit nichtmal in Verbindung bringst.
>Ich verachte so ziemlich jede Partei, da hat die AFD bei mir keinerlei Sonderrecht. Trotzdem würde ich beim liebsten willen nicht auf die Idee komme, diese Idioten zu wählen. Von der politischen Inkompetenz mal ganz abgesehen.
Politische Inkompetenz ist das was uns momentan vor-regiert wird. Ob die AFD inkompetent ist wird sich zeigen und wird nicht einfach von einem dahergelaufenen VWLer bestimmt.
Tesla is still massively overvalued. Both Nvidia and Teslas long term success depends on how profitable future AI products and services are.
US stocks currently have a huge premium on them just because they are US stocks. The value of foreign investments into the US market has quadrupled since 2010, there is a large ongoing run on US companies, especially tech companies.
I bought NVidia long before the AI hype started (and already sold).
They seem to always make the right moves. They are innovative and they provide very good products.
This is not MS or Google.
I would never buy MS or Google, because you can see the incompetence at every corner of their products.
Completely the opposite with NVidia.
Currently Nvidia is overpriced because of the hype.
However if they stay like they have been in the past, their value will increase by a lot in long term. Not just because of AI.
So the stock might just keep going up.
For me I am out and I stay out for now.
At some point, the market makers will take profits, and then it can go down very rapidly.
You mean unlike Airbus that builds planes which actually dont fall down every other day. BASF one of the largest manufactors of chemicals used for medicine and fertilizing all over the world. And all the (still) highly regarded car and truck manufactors....
I am not downplaying Nvidia but in the end its value is highly exaggerated and only justified by the whole world betting on the AI Messiahs that hopefully emerges from NVIDIA GPUs ...
Top comment: “other trillion dollar companies do nothing useful”
Reply: *lists examples of non-trillion dollar companies that do something useful*
??????
They should be Trillion Dollar Companies, compared to the value they provide to the overall world. Cmon man don't be so close minded. The point is that NVIDIA is heavily overvalued and portrayed as some kind of prodigies just because they implemented something into their hardware.
That's my point. And soon they will have none. So using it as an example for a strong German company, when it is slowly abandoning it's business location isn't a good point.
Smooth brain is when you're not getting the difference between a company outsourcing production and leaving a business location entirely because there is literally no incentive to stay.
Bro versteht nicht das keine radikale linke an der Macht ist. Die einzigen "linken" im Bund sind die SPD ä, und die als radikal zu bezeichnen finde ich weit hergeholt :D
"Making large things" has never, and will never be an indicator for profitability and growth of a company. You can build spaceships and have MUCH lower profit margins than a food delivery service, driving up stock price of the latter because "shareholder value".
NVIDIA has one of the most insane quarterly earnings reports I've ever seen, so from a shareholder POV, these prices aren't surprising. That doesn't mean it isn't overhyped or overvalued, regardless.
To be honest I find it very hard to judge, how much of it is a bubble.
AI is definetly incredibly powerful already.
Only think about Sora. Stuff like this will probably replace traditional 3D modelling/rendering almost completely for the film industry.
Or in the audio world, AI is already capable to very reliably and sometimes without obviuous artefacts devide seperate elements in a song from eachother.
Game development will also profit immensely.
And self driving vehicles might be THE big thing in a few years.
And those are just the things, we see already.
AI could help making production much more efficient.
It's not a bubble.
It's something like the industrial revolution or the discovery of electricity.
Public traded stocks, bur unlike USA even some big German companies like BOSCH or Schwarz are not in the stock market. And most medium sized enterprises are not in the stock market either.
Im german and can explain this very easy. It is because of mama merkel and the now ruling communism far left. Companies go exodus daily. Companies with roots far before ww2 or even ww1. It is just a glimpse of what is going bad down the road with germanistan
Sure my guy, could also be that a vast amount of companies like Bosch and Aldi or Schwarz Group aren't even traded.
But yes, germany is going down the drain, yet the economy keeps growing and even stabilized after just a short time while a war is happening right after another crisis.
it still doesn't change the fact, that highly valued Companies are leaving the country because of the ever rising costs our ruling parties are imposing on them, just to present an image of being "Green". Even if it isn't true in the slightest.
99% of the ruling parties laws aren't even in effect yet or contributed to the loses of those companys.
We had covid which left everyone with less money and now a war which left everyone with less money and higher expenses for nearly everything.
Companies always chose their location on multiple factors, and for some the current situation is a problem and they want to relocate.
There are 2 main reasons, energy prices and inflation. The later one is a problem for literally every country. And the energy prices are already stabilized and nearly as low as before the outbreak of the war. So everyone who did leave did so not because of the politics itself but because of the unstable energy market primarily since inflation is everywhere.
A market which the Green's funnily enough did the most for in terms of stabilizing and reducing costs.
>A market which the Green's funnily enough did the most for in terms of stabilizing and reducing costss
And thats where you are completely wrong. Tell me this: How does sanctioning Russia and then Importing Russian Gas over Third Parties help in terms of stabilizing and cost of said ressource? Why did the same Sanctions, meant to criple Russian economy, boost the Russian economy in return? How does switching the main provider from cheaper Russian Gas to more Expensive and environment unfriendly Transport of LNG help in the same points? Hint: It doesn't. The only purpose all of this has is to Stabilize US Economy and gain a political Advantage over Russia.
so your answere to this problem is voting AFD, which has russian puppets in their own party? \*points to Maximilian Krah, etc." Sounds pretty fucking idiotic to me.
>And thats where you are completely wrong.
So, prove him wrong then? Shouldnt be too hard to find data about germanys economics the past 20 years. But be sure to compare the data to other countries, because nearly the whole world had crippling economics because of covid and war. Show us the data and point out, how germany is doing poorly compared to other countries. I am confident that you can't, because it is not true.
Look at inflation management for example. Compare germany's m3 supply with the m3 supply of america or other european countries. Not doing too bad actually, mhmm? If you wanna talk economics, let's go, I am quiet confident in data interpretation and macroeconomics.
>so your answere to this problem is voting AFD, which has russian puppets in their own party? \*points to Maximilian Krah, etc." Sounds pretty fucking idiotic to me.
Its either befriending Russian puppets or US puppets.
>So, prove him wrong then? Shouldnt be too hard to find data about germanys economics the past 20 years.
Germanies GDP is declining as one of the only EU Countries. If GDP will rise over this year is yet to be seen.
Economy is being bolstered by huge investments into sales of Electronic Cars which are labeled as "Green" but aren't actually green. Production of these vehicels is exremely unfriendly to the environment. They are also already reaching their limits: [https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2024/03/27/germanys-real-challenges-are-aging-underinvestment-and-too-much-red-tape](https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2024/03/27/germanys-real-challenges-are-aging-underinvestment-and-too-much-red-tape)
Other Areas are declining.
Germany is still importing Gas directly from russia or through third parties, but aren't publicly disclosing it. The only information they give is the Import through Nord Stream 1 which is just one of many pipelines. The only Addition they Add with an \* Is that other sources might include Russian dependencies and are therefore not disclosed. See image here for example: [https://de.statista.com/infografik/30706/taegliche-gasimporte-nach-deutschland-nach-herkunft/](https://de.statista.com/infografik/30706/taegliche-gasimporte-nach-deutschland-nach-herkunft/)
Here are a few examples of third party importing, and painting it as independence from russia:
[https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/imports/india](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/imports/india)
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-oil-europe-india-ukraine-war-b2477443.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-oil-europe-india-ukraine-war-b2477443.html)
Maybe you should first disprove my claims if you don't believe them, don't you think?
You are cherrypicking statistics now? What do these statistics have to do with macroeconomics? A statistic about gas impotrts, one about "germans challenges" and some articles on imports? What are you trying to proove? That you can find a statistic in your favour when you search for long enough?
>Maybe you should first disprove my claims if you don't believe them, don't you think?
I mean you talked trash that has yet to be confirmed by data, but if thats how it goes nowadays, here we go:
GDP of germany:
https://preview.redd.it/07pirxbu7z2d1.png?width=959&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce1e18c928c4337d96a70c5d1d7ddbc7066351da
source: [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp)
more importantly, GDP per capita in comparison with other european countries:
[https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe](https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe)
Compared to switzerland: [https://tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/gdp-per-capita-ppp](https://tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/gdp-per-capita-ppp)
How do you explain the recession in 2020 in switzerland? Probably the greens in switzerland, right?
Also an upwards trend, and still looking really solid. Your declining GDP claim is a blantant lie!
Now lets talk about fiscal politics. Germany's m3 money supply is actually DECLINING right now: [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3)
As comparison, heres the m3 supply of a country like Turkey, that actually has fiscal problems (high inflation): [https://www.ceicdata.com/en/turkey/money-supply/money-supply-m3](https://www.ceicdata.com/en/turkey/money-supply/money-supply-m3)
We can talk about fiscal politics per political party aswell, but I don't think that you are prepared for that kind of talk...
Again, lots of talking but no data to back it up. Your average AFD voter
>I mean you talked trash that has yet to be confirmed by data, but if thats how it goes nowadays, here we go:
Why dont you zoom into the declining portion at the end of your cherry picked GDP Presentation of the past 20 years? I never said that germany had a bad economy, your Stats prove what I AM saying.
>[https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe](https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe)
>Also an upwards trend, and still looking really solid. Your declining GDP claim is a blantant lie!
What im saying is that the upwards trend is getting lower. GDP Growth is declining and it is a fact. [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE)
>Now lets talk about fiscal politics. Germany's m3 money supply is actually DECLINING right now: [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3)
So you actually agree but then say, look at turkey where it is worse? Heuchler, is what i would call you.
Why are you ignoring my question on Gas Imports?
Judging by your way of speaking just because I disagree, you're unable to live a live outside of your green bubble.
In your initial comment you said: "GDP is declining as one of the only EU countries" not "the growth of the gdp is declining", again: It's a lie and there is data to proof it. GDP declining is a lie and "as only EU country" is the EVEN WORSE lie.
>Why dont you zoom into the declining portion at the end of your cherry picked GDP Presentation of the past 20 years? I never said that germany had a bad economy, your Stats prove what I AM saying.
Because that is not how data works dude. Cherrypicking data is literally zooming in on the point that justifies your claim. But you always have to see the full context of the data, which you are clearly missing. Shows that you don't really know how to interpret and handle data at all.
>What im saying is that the upwards trend is getting lower. GDP Growth is declining and it is a fact. [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE)
Your "proof" that GDP is declining is also cherrypicked. I told you to compare Germanys data with other EU members which you clearly missed to do again. Because the Decline in Growth is clearly attributed to Covid, a problem ALL OTHER NATIONS on earth had to face, which led to similar development of GDPs.
>So you actually agree but then say, look at turkey where it is worse? Heuchler, is what i would call you.
Where am I agreeing, wtf? Do you lack basic reading comprehension? I showed you a graph of germanys m3 supply which was DECLINING opposed to Turkeys which is INCREASING super fast. Please dude...
>Why are you ignoring my question on Gas Imports?
>Judging by your way of speaking just because I disagree, your unable to live a live outside of your green bubble.
Because we are not talking about gas, we are talking about macro economics? WTF has gas to do with this? You again cherrypicked a statistic that supports your views, which is just super fucking embarrasing sorry. You calling me "green" in the end is just the cherry on top. Way to make a fool of yourself. It's not about you disagreeing. It's about you disagreeing after being shown data that prooves you wrong. You are clearly just delusional and think you know better than everyone else. You do you and see how far this gets you.
You seem to have trouble accepting when you are wrong, because dude I just backed everything up with data, unless you provide conflicting data, this discussion is done. Won't answere to any follow ups because it's pointless when one side is providing facts and the other side is providing opinions.
I heard an interesting theory, the American stock market is pumped by investments from Chinese private individuals, who no longer have faith in Chinese real estate due to the recent crisis, but they continue to save a lot because they have no social security, and that money is there they put in the market and in the American treasury which they see as the safest place possible.
SAP, Siemens, BASF, Lufthansa, BMW, Mercedes, … Just to name a few. Sure it doesn‘t habe those mega corps like the US does, but still there a few interesting candidates. Especially when you don‘t want to buy stocks with PE ratios 30+
Why do you think it is overinflated?
Europe is racing towards another war that involves the entire continent. Investing in the biggest defense company of the biggest country makes sense, no?
About wirecard I have no clue, to me its just fraud combined with politicians/ regulation agencies turning a blind eye.
Now put the earnings growth side by side.
We have a company tripling revenue year over year with margins at 80% and a struggling economy.
That being said it’s an unfair comparison because the whole world wants to invest in Nvidia and not even Germany themselves would wholeheartedly invest in the German stock market.
Somewhat notable, but Nvidia is not the only company where this is the case, apple and microsoft each have had a higher market cap than germany for 2-3 years now
Germany fucked itself, worst government since decades, energy crisis, Ukraine Russia conflict, billions are channeling to Ukraine while country needs new infrastructure. BASF is considering leaving the country step by step, which may cause domino effect for other companies, energy prices are un-fucking-acceptable for world’s 4th biggest economy, BASF alone requires energy almost as much as Switzerland alone, and energy prices are doubled since last few years. Far Right is on the rise, racist videos are popping up on social media in last few days.
Guys here has turned into shit show. But I must add this to the equation as well, USA companies have too overpriced stock values. But nevertheless I would definitely not invest any German company at all at the moment except few. Our future doesn’t look so bright, cuz our government sux and on elections there are not any good options to take their place. We are fucking doomed 🤣😂
thats bc germans are being indoctrinated to a radical left movement that is distroying their economy. All the mayor German companies are going abroad. The only party that would give a solution to this is the AFD which is shunned by mainstrteam media as nazis (wich is incorrect). There is a bigger plan going on to destroy germany as a country in EU politics imo.
Thats the biggest bullshit ever. The AFD is far right Nazi Party which even the far right parties from france and italy refuse to work with because they are too radical. If there is one Party that will certainly ruin Germany and its Reputation in the world, its the AFD.
What a bs you are spreading here - AFD are straight out nazis and don’t offer any solutions to the today issues in Germany. Or you think that going out of the € and the EU and going back to Deutsch Mark will help our vastly export oriented economy?! Its only populism and racism they offer - F them.
Obviously the Euro with it's Export fueling value for Germany is bad. It might sound odd, but Germany profits from a weaker currency. Germany could have a better valued currency if they did their own thing, for sure. But it would hurt trade because now other countries aren't as likely to import from Germany with money they don't have that they lend from Germany.
The whole EU/Euro is a money farm for every country, but especially Germany. And the AFD thinks removing that will somehow help the economy. "yes my lord, pissing off all our trade partners, giving up on our export leverage and making our own currency which no one accepts currently is a good idea. Surely that will fix everything".
If you think the current German government is radical left then you've never experienced radical left. Conservative people nowadays see policies that are slightly left and immediately label them as radical left.
I get that you might not sympathize with left leaning changes, but just because you don't like them it doesn't mean it's radical
Sure but nvidia is just one or two nifty inventions by team red away from collapsing back to 2019 status.
In fact it is just one good kernel driver for linux away from collapse.
Not collapse as in bancrupt but back to a normal valuation.
Let's be rational: a global company that dominates the AI accelerator market is worth more than the companies of a single country. Well, why not? The future will be dominated by corporations. Every classic sci-fi book teaches us this.
I always think that it’s real strange that one company can be worth more than 10 other companies that have probably more than 100times the number of employees. I mean this 10 companies put food on a lot more tables. How does that make sense?
This is because American companies are generally never subject to hype and are never overvalued.
Tesla's stock made more or less the same movement and now sits at half of its maximum. Still worth a lot, but MANY people have been burned in the process.
Show me a person that would choose owning Nvidia over owning the biggest 40 public companys of Germany.
Diversification!
Probably everyone who owns NVIDIA right now. Definitely the Americans that do.
i think i'd be ok with top ten i mean the list is pretty nice [https://companiesmarketcap.com/germany/largest-companies-in-germany-by-market-cap/](https://companiesmarketcap.com/germany/largest-companies-in-germany-by-market-cap/)
I don't know if you can compare them. Other than Tesla Nvidia is making so fucking much cash. And other than cars, AI has a growth potential to the fucking technological singularity.
Or someone develops an ai model that doesnt require such an amount of gpu raw power and its good buy earnings. The potential of ai might very well also be nvidias problem at some point ^^
>The potential of ai might very well also be nvidias problem at some point ^ Everybodys problem. But until then Nvidia will own half of the world. My brother is service admin, he told me that customers are currently doubling and tripeling the IT departments just to get the model trained let alone integrate them into the business.
Exactly. We don't know if AI will be the future. Or if maybe a competetor wins the race. Like intel Gaudi. Or the SEC decides to go against Nvidias Antitrust policies. Still risky tho
Intel would not even win the race as the only competitor. They have a long tradition of completely missing important trends like the internet, Smartphones, lower power consumption, data center and now ai. Their attempt of getting into the GPU market in 2024 shows that they're 15 years behind.
Eeeh. I don't know about rhat. Hardware for intel grafic cards is great, just the software is okay. And the neweste CPUs look also great. They just had issues scaling down their transistors, but that seems to be an issue of the past. I wouldn't count intel out yet
Microsoft works with Qualcom and Intel at the Neural Processing Units for the new models. So maybe AI's don't need GPU's in the future.
Guess who bought the 2 of the biggest FPGA companies? Oh right, it's Intel and AMD.
Biggest problem isn't the power to run them, but to train them. 7B parameter models run on MacBooks with okay generation speed, but training them still requires half a datacenter. And there are models 20x the size which you can basically only afford to train if you are Microsoft, Facebook, (Google), Amazon or Nvidia. What has to be shown is that they'll actually provide an economic benefit to vast amounts of businesses, that's the only way to justify their value.
maybe that Tesla was worth more than all over car manufacturers combined was a sign of being overvalued? one can only speculate.
German super not hyped Wirecard is laughing
It was a russian Operation. We were susceptible.
What are you talking about, the financial markets are the most rational and objective institutions in existence. The highly educated, financially literate elites would never fall victim to things like herd mentality, hype or misleading marketing!
Nvidia is Atleast not overpriced, like Germany is
/s?
Sure , do I really have to point that out in this case ? :D
Sarcasm, says an English proverb, is the lowest form of wit. The combination of malice and irony does not have a good reputation—yet it is a tough nut for the human brain to crack. A group of medical doctors and psychologists from Israel has now shown that understanding sarcastic remarks requires the finely tuned cooperation of various brain regions. [source](https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/reife-leistung-wie-der-geist-sarkasmus-versteht-a-357135.html) We're on reddit. Most ppl here don't even have brain regions, but singular brain cells randomly firing, me included. That's why the /s is so important.
If some people don't get it, they don't get it, and that's okay.
thats the fun part
funniest German here
There are too many Elon fans who think TSLA is more worth then the rest of the entire car industry.
Yes. You won't believe how many bad takes I see each day on reddit
Ppl already asking how long it would take to reach 1000 again after 10:1 split. Absolutely no sense for numbers and their relation in the grand scheme
Some people aren't always familiar with the topic, or just aren't good with sarcasm, so it's a nice gesture to include the /s
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Insults are not allowed
Yes. There's plenty of idiots on the web
😂
Stock market in the usa is always blatantly over valued
I believe this is called cope
Yeah…but we traders are riding the wave. 🌊
What happens when the wave hits land?
Some will live. Some will die. It’s MadMax.
The real point of this is how dangerously overpriced a company is and how underpriced the german companies on the german stock exchange are.
Several large german companies are private. In germany there is less stock culture than in the US. REWE, Schwarz Gruppe, Bosch are some of the top 30 Companies in Germany (by sales volume) and are private companies. This heavily extends to smaler companies. While in the US even a lot of mid-small companies have a stockticker its pretty rare in germany.
Jup, Nvidia is still overpriced
On point
What could possibly go wrong
until you realize the US stock market is too big to fail and they would just bolster it with peoples tax money bail outs it it fails
This feels like deja vu
Wouldn’t say that they are underpriced. Germany will face some huge challenges and small growth in the near future as in the next decade(s) (rising population but actually shrinking part of overall value adding population, rising energy costs and more). Also germanys top companies are older and not expanding (that fast) but focus more on keeping their value and paying dividends. With that in mind and in the context of current short term interest on saving accounts their price seems only a little undervalued to just right for me.
People have been saying that about Germany for decades
Every country will face huge challenges. Some german companies are old, others are not. Many of them keep expanding tho. Then looking at their crucial role for the worlds economy, they are underpriced.
As a german citizen would say: "Ja leck mich am Arsch, das nenn ich mal eine Blase! " 
Hell no. Im german and I'd never invest into German companies. Nvidias net income is up 600% from last year. Sap is down 300% and Siemens is down 40%, those are the 2 biggest German companies by market cap and they look awful.
DAX still had profits of 120 billion in 2023. Can't entirely rule out that NVIDIA will top it at one point but diversification being a thing, it seems sensible to chose DAX.
Diversifying into an index that consist of 50% shitty and stagnating companies isn’t that sensible to me.
Bist du nur investor oder gesinnst du dich auch mal darüber nachzudenken was in deutschland schief läuf?
Are far right Germans really gonna turn this political now?
everything is political over there, just the same for far left
Honestly far left here is usually just "kill Nazis" and putting stickers on lampposts which I'm not even sure I'd deem political, it's the moderate left doing the political push.
makes sense
Critisism on economics = Far right lol
Look at their profile, they tick all boxes. Racist as hell, women hater, it's quite clear what their motivations for their statement is. "Oh, they're green and progressive so they must be evil incorporated"
Was läuft den schief am deutschen Aktienmarkt? Der steht nur knapp 100 Punkte unter seinem Allzeit-Hoch dass er vor wenigen Wochen erst hatte. Allgemein hat der Dax nach kurzen Übergangsschwierigkeiten eigentlich die gesamte Wahlperiode Ampel über immer und immer mehr an Wert dazugewonnen.
SAP is 300% down? When and where?
wähl afd
schon arsch der vorschlag
Ich find den garnicht so schlecht
ich dafür umso schlechter. Alleine die Steuerpolitik der AFD ist absolut bodenlos. Mal von den Fantasien des EU-Austritts mal ganz abgesehen, was Wirtschaftliche Folgen hätte, die ihr euch anscheinend nicht ausmalen könnt. Aber wir können gerne über die Steuerpolitik und die anderen Punkte zivilisiert diskutieren, falls deine Meinung auch etwas Substanz haben sollte. AFD Wähler sind einfach so engstirnig. Sie wollen um jeden Preis den Islam und Flüchtlinge loswerden, Selbst wenn das bedeutet eine Partei zu wählen die quasi für China und Russland Landesverrat begeht und steuerpolitisch Verschlechterungen für 95% ihrer eigenen Wähler herbeiführen würde. Klingt für mich nicht sonderlich patriotisch oder attraktiv. Ich wähl doch auch nicht die NSDAP, nur weil sie Arbeit und Brot verspricht? Und ich dachte wir wären mit unserer Historie und der Tatsache, dass das 3. Reich 10x in der Schulzeit behandelt wird quasi immun gegen so billigen Populismus. Naja, history repeats.
Meine Hauptsächlichen Beschwerden liegen darin wie Sie momentan als Staatsfeind Nummer 1 präsentiert werden nur weil Sie eine Opposition Darstellen die den Grünen nicht passt. Man könnte behaupten, dass ich das aus trotz tu und ob dir das Gefällt ist mir egal. CDU zu wählen ist mir zu Riskant, weil sonst eine CDU / Grün Koalition in Frage kommt und sowas würde ich persönlich niemals unterstützen.
>Meine Hauptsächlichen Beschwerden liegen darin wie Sie momentan als Staatsfeind Nummer 1 präsentiert werden nur weil Sie eine Opposition Darstellen die den Grünen nicht passt. Das Stimmt nicht. Die Grünen haben nochmal wie viele Stimmen? Die AFD wird also als Staatsfeind abgestempelt, weil sie den Grünen nicht passen, ja? Also ist ganz Deutschland (die ADF ausgeschlossen) jetzt grün? Werden sie auch von den CDUlern als Staatsfeinde beschimpft, weil die CDUler so viel Symapthie gegenüber den Grünen hegen? Ach bitte.. Die AFD wird als Staatsfeind abgestempelt, weil es erwiesen ist, dass gewisse AFD Politiker Gelder aus Russland bekommen, oder weil es erwiesen ist, dass Nazis innerhalb der Parteistruktur vertreten sind und das auch nicht gerade wenige. Oder vielleicht, weil sie Pläne schmieden die EU zu verlassen, was desaströse Folgen für Deutschland hätte? Wegen so Dingen vielleicht? Neeeeeein, sicher sind wieder die grünen Schuld, weil die ja eh an allem Schuld sind, was euch gerade nicht passt. 1940 war man Sündenbock, wenn man einer gewissen Ethnik angehörte und heute sind die grünen an allem Schuld. Einfach lächerlich, ohne irgendwelche belege so stumpfen Populismus nachzuplappern. Natürlich schreibt sich die AFD nicht "Nazi" auf die Stirn, glaubst du die NSDAP hat damit geworben die Juden zu vernichten? Die NSDAP wurde gewählt weil sie Brot in einer Hungersnot versprachen und Arbeit versprachen. Populismus eben, vielleicht solltest du das nochmal nachschlagen. > Man könnte behaupten, dass ich das aus trotz tu und ob dir das Gefällt ist mir egal. CDU zu wählen ist mir zu Riskant, weil sonst eine CDU / Grün Koalition in Frage kommt und sowas würde ich persönlich niemals unterstützen. Nazis aus trotz wählen, junge junge, mein Opa würde sich im Grab umdrehen. Es ist mir egal was du wählst, jeder sollte nach seinen persönlichen Interessen wählen. Mein Punkt ist nur der, dass die AFD deine Interessen einen Scheiß interessiert, auch wenn du da vielleicht jetzt anders denken magst. Die AFD betreibt einfach billigen Populismus um gewählt zu werden, Du persönlich bist denen doch scheiß egal, sofern du nicht 200k+ jährlich verdienst. Auch du hättest unter einer AFD Regierung mit den Konsequenzen zu kämpfen, du verstehst es einfach nur noch nicht.
>Also ist ganz Deutschland (die ADF ausgeschlossen) jetzt grün? Woher genau hast du die Information, dass ganz Deutschland gegen die AFD ist? Wie erklärst du dann über 20% Stimmen für die AFD in den Vorwahlen? > Werden sie auch von den CDUlern als Staatsfeinde beschimpft, weil die CDUler so viel Symapthie gegenüber den Grünen hegen? Ach bitte.. Gegenfrage: Wieso wurde die CDU für die Correctiv Doku nicht an den Pranger gestellt obwohl Sie mit 3x so vielen Teilnehmern an der "Wannseekonferenz", wie sie so schön bezeichnet wurde, anwesend waren? > Die AFD wird als Staatsfeind abgestempelt, weil es erwiesen ist, dass gewisse AFD Politiker Gelder aus Russland bekommen, oder weil es erwiesen ist, dass Nazis innerhalb der Parteistruktur vertreten sind und das auch nicht gerade wenige. Genauso ist erwiesen, dass Andere Parteien aus Anderen Ländern Geld bekommen. Wieso stellst du unsere momentan Führung nicht als Marionette Amerikas dar? Linksradikale sind genauso vertreten aber bekommen keine Beachtung? Warum? Wohl nicht etwa, weil Sie die Agenda unserer momentanen Führung nachverfolgen und daher vorteilhaft für die Politiker sind, oder? > Nazis aus trotz wählen, junge junge, mein Opa würde sich im Grab umdrehen. Du bist der Grund warum ich und mindestens 1/5 der Deutschen Bevölkerung AFD wählen werden. Sie sind keine Nazis nur weil DU das so sagst. Du kannst die Taten einzelner nicht auf eine ganze Partei spiegeln sonst müsstest du absolut jede Partei verachten.
>Gegenfrage: Wieso wurde die CDU für die Correctiv Doku nicht an den Pranger gestellt obwohl Sie mit 3x so vielen Teilnehmern an der "Wannseekonferenz", wie sie so schön bezeichnet wurde, anwesend waren? Also ich persönlich habe das ebenfalls in den Medien thematisiert gesehen, du etwa nicht? > Genauso ist erwiesen, dass Andere Parteien aus Anderen Ländern Geld bekommen. Wieso stellst du unsere momentan Führung nicht als Marionette Amerikas dar? Linksradikale sind genauso vertreten aber bekommen keine Beachtung? Warum? Wohl nicht etwa, weil Sie die Agenda unserer momentanen Führung nachverfolgen und daher vorteilhaft für die Politiker sind, oder? Da gebe ich dir Recht, das ist aber IMMERNOCH kein Grund dann die AFD zu wählen? Unsere Momentane Führung (Scholz) ist vielmehr Russland als USA Marionette, vielleicht schaust du dir hierzu nochmal Scholz politische Vergangenheit an... >Du bist der Grund warum ich und mindestens 1/5 der Deutschen Bevölkerung AFD wählen werden. Sie sind keine Nazis nur weil DU das so sagst. Du kannst die Taten einzelner nicht auf eine ganze Partei spiegeln sonst müsstest du absolut jede Partei verachten. 1. Der Grund weshalb 1/5 der Deutschen die AFD wählt ist, dass die soziale Gerechtheit in Deutschland immer ungerechter wird und die AFD Wähler glauben, die AFD wäre die Lösung des Problems. Nochmal, Populismus eben. 2. Ich verachte so ziemlich jede Partei, da hat die AFD bei mir keinerlei Sonderrecht. Trotzdem würde ich beim liebsten willen nicht auf die Idee komme, diese Idioten zu wählen. Von der politischen Inkompetenz mal ganz abgesehen.
1. Du könntest dir auch Andere hobbies suchen als mich über mehrere Posts hinweg zu verfolgen. Es wird nichts an meiner Entscheidung oder meiner Begründung Ändern. Du kannst dich gerne für den schlausten halten und mich für einen Idioten, juckt mich nicht im geringsten. >Da gebe ich dir Recht, das ist aber IMMERNOCH kein Grund dann die AFD zu wählen? Unsere Momentane Führung (Scholz) ist vielmehr Russland als USA Marionette, vielleicht schaust du dir hierzu nochmal Scholz politische Vergangenheit an... > Du hast das Gegenargument mit der Russland Marionette gebracht. Für mich war das irrelevant und daher spielt auch Scholz Vergangenheit keine Rolle für mich. Ich hab dir nur deinen Wiederspruch vorgehalten. Ausserdem sollte dir doch klar sein, dass Scholz Vergangenheit völlig egal ist weil er nur eine Repräsentative Rolle spielt. Der Bundestag entscheidet was passiert. Er hat nur ein paar mehr Möglichkeiten als Andere. >Der Grund weshalb 1/5 der Deutschen die AFD wählt ist, dass die soziale Gerechtheit in Deutschland immer ungerechter wird und die AFD Wähler glauben, die AFD wäre die Lösung des Problems. Nochmal, Populismus eben. Du kannst nicht für mich oder Andere Sprechen. Deine Fantasie zu den Begründungen hat nichts mit den eigentlichen Gründen zu tun. AFD Wähler gehen die AFD Wählen, weil die Grünen Sie als Rechtsradikale Nazis abstempeln und die Normale Bevölkerung sieht, was für ein dummes Populistisches Geschwätz das ist. Und ja, jede Partei bedient sich dem Populismus den du bei der AFD verurteilst aber Andere damit nichtmal in Verbindung bringst. >Ich verachte so ziemlich jede Partei, da hat die AFD bei mir keinerlei Sonderrecht. Trotzdem würde ich beim liebsten willen nicht auf die Idee komme, diese Idioten zu wählen. Von der politischen Inkompetenz mal ganz abgesehen. Politische Inkompetenz ist das was uns momentan vor-regiert wird. Ob die AFD inkompetent ist wird sich zeigen und wird nicht einfach von einem dahergelaufenen VWLer bestimmt.
NVIDIA is a bubble
Tesla was, but Nvidia is actual reeal value.
Tesla is still massively overvalued. Both Nvidia and Teslas long term success depends on how profitable future AI products and services are. US stocks currently have a huge premium on them just because they are US stocks. The value of foreign investments into the US market has quadrupled since 2010, there is a large ongoing run on US companies, especially tech companies.
Lol.
Wait until the AI hype is gone, and then we will see how real earnings look like.
Very reeal made out of reeal reealness
😂 only if you buy in to the AI hype and even then NVIDIA only has a first mover advantage that will get eroded over time
I bought NVidia long before the AI hype started (and already sold). They seem to always make the right moves. They are innovative and they provide very good products. This is not MS or Google. I would never buy MS or Google, because you can see the incompetence at every corner of their products. Completely the opposite with NVidia. Currently Nvidia is overpriced because of the hype. However if they stay like they have been in the past, their value will increase by a lot in long term. Not just because of AI. So the stock might just keep going up. For me I am out and I stay out for now. At some point, the market makers will take profits, and then it can go down very rapidly.
Capitalism is a bubble
Agree
Don't worry i'm sure a single company being more valued that the entire public market of the third-largest economy is not just a bubble
Dax 50 total profits was 120B Eur in 2023. How much profit is Nvidia expected to make to justify that? Crazy.
4th largest economy. Japan retook the third spot, after their currency value rebounded.
There are a lot of big German companies which are not listed on stock markets though, Bosch for example
Aldi
Lidl, Edeka, Stihl, mahle, Festo and… majority of Germany isn’t stock listed
Zeiss...
The value of the economy is not based solely on the publicly traded companies.
Rebounded when exactly?
It's not the entire German economy lmao. It's the biggest 40 in a pool of many private companies.
That's why he said public market and not economy.
Nvidia is one of the few trillion dollar companies that actually produce something useful
You mean unlike Airbus that builds planes which actually dont fall down every other day. BASF one of the largest manufactors of chemicals used for medicine and fertilizing all over the world. And all the (still) highly regarded car and truck manufactors.... I am not downplaying Nvidia but in the end its value is highly exaggerated and only justified by the whole world betting on the AI Messiahs that hopefully emerges from NVIDIA GPUs ...
Neither of those are trillion dollar companies
Thats the point...
Top comment: “other trillion dollar companies do nothing useful” Reply: *lists examples of non-trillion dollar companies that do something useful* ??????
They should be Trillion Dollar Companies, compared to the value they provide to the overall world. Cmon man don't be so close minded. The point is that NVIDIA is heavily overvalued and portrayed as some kind of prodigies just because they implemented something into their hardware.
BASF is THE largest chemical company in the world.
BASF can not be sustained in the German economy.
BASF has facilities not only in Germany.
That's my point. And soon they will have none. So using it as an example for a strong German company, when it is slowly abandoning it's business location isn't a good point.
And Nvidia doesn't produce in the USA? That doesn't mean that it doesn't provide value to the US economy
Neither can the majority of large cap US stocks in just the US economy what are these smooth brain takes ITT
Smooth brain is when you're not getting the difference between a company outsourcing production and leaving a business location entirely because there is literally no incentive to stay.
BASF is leaving germany bc radical left polecies that will damage the company. Bis ihr idioten was kapiert is deutschland am arsch.
Bro würde für nen Industriegiganten seine Rente aufgeben smh
Bro versteht nicht das keine radikale linke an der Macht ist. Die einzigen "linken" im Bund sind die SPD ä, und die als radikal zu bezeichnen finde ich weit hergeholt :D
Und die Grünen sind deiner Meinung nach Rechts oder was?
Bro denkt er bekommt Rente
"Making large things" has never, and will never be an indicator for profitability and growth of a company. You can build spaceships and have MUCH lower profit margins than a food delivery service, driving up stock price of the latter because "shareholder value". NVIDIA has one of the most insane quarterly earnings reports I've ever seen, so from a shareholder POV, these prices aren't surprising. That doesn't mean it isn't overhyped or overvalued, regardless.
Yeah. That’s definitely not a bubble.
it will become one once AI gets stuck
To be honest I find it very hard to judge, how much of it is a bubble. AI is definetly incredibly powerful already. Only think about Sora. Stuff like this will probably replace traditional 3D modelling/rendering almost completely for the film industry. Or in the audio world, AI is already capable to very reliably and sometimes without obviuous artefacts devide seperate elements in a song from eachother. Game development will also profit immensely. And self driving vehicles might be THE big thing in a few years. And those are just the things, we see already. AI could help making production much more efficient. It's not a bubble. It's something like the industrial revolution or the discovery of electricity.
Could somebody elaborate? What are "german stocks"?
Stocks of German companies
at least the publicly traded ones
They pronounce Stockzil Snitzel Trading.
hahaha germans talk funny and like hitler and schnitzel!
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Insults are not allowed
Public traded stocks, bur unlike USA even some big German companies like BOSCH or Schwarz are not in the stock market. And most medium sized enterprises are not in the stock market either.
Thank you, that explains it.
"Stock" is the german word for "stick" or "tree branch".
This is so mind blowing, I’m not sure that my humble mind can accept it as a reality.
what's happening to Nvidia and why? I live under a rock ( Germany)
Artificial Inteligence chips
oh damn
thank
Ath the moment they have the most capable AI hardware by far. Despite that their stock is overvalued.
The stock market is ridiculous
I would say valued less is probably a more fitting way of putting it
this too shall pass !
Some people really believe Sam Altman is going to deliver AGI. If he delivers then we have an infinite gold mine and NVidia is selling the shovels.
It’s because of the AI bubble 🫧
Some people are making good money with this bubbles and others will lose. America
Nvidia will fall so hard. It’s basically a meme stock at this point
Verdammisch!
How long until the bubble bursts?
Im german and can explain this very easy. It is because of mama merkel and the now ruling communism far left. Companies go exodus daily. Companies with roots far before ww2 or even ww1. It is just a glimpse of what is going bad down the road with germanistan
Sure my guy, could also be that a vast amount of companies like Bosch and Aldi or Schwarz Group aren't even traded. But yes, germany is going down the drain, yet the economy keeps growing and even stabilized after just a short time while a war is happening right after another crisis.
it still doesn't change the fact, that highly valued Companies are leaving the country because of the ever rising costs our ruling parties are imposing on them, just to present an image of being "Green". Even if it isn't true in the slightest.
99% of the ruling parties laws aren't even in effect yet or contributed to the loses of those companys. We had covid which left everyone with less money and now a war which left everyone with less money and higher expenses for nearly everything. Companies always chose their location on multiple factors, and for some the current situation is a problem and they want to relocate. There are 2 main reasons, energy prices and inflation. The later one is a problem for literally every country. And the energy prices are already stabilized and nearly as low as before the outbreak of the war. So everyone who did leave did so not because of the politics itself but because of the unstable energy market primarily since inflation is everywhere. A market which the Green's funnily enough did the most for in terms of stabilizing and reducing costs.
>A market which the Green's funnily enough did the most for in terms of stabilizing and reducing costss And thats where you are completely wrong. Tell me this: How does sanctioning Russia and then Importing Russian Gas over Third Parties help in terms of stabilizing and cost of said ressource? Why did the same Sanctions, meant to criple Russian economy, boost the Russian economy in return? How does switching the main provider from cheaper Russian Gas to more Expensive and environment unfriendly Transport of LNG help in the same points? Hint: It doesn't. The only purpose all of this has is to Stabilize US Economy and gain a political Advantage over Russia.
so your answere to this problem is voting AFD, which has russian puppets in their own party? \*points to Maximilian Krah, etc." Sounds pretty fucking idiotic to me. >And thats where you are completely wrong. So, prove him wrong then? Shouldnt be too hard to find data about germanys economics the past 20 years. But be sure to compare the data to other countries, because nearly the whole world had crippling economics because of covid and war. Show us the data and point out, how germany is doing poorly compared to other countries. I am confident that you can't, because it is not true. Look at inflation management for example. Compare germany's m3 supply with the m3 supply of america or other european countries. Not doing too bad actually, mhmm? If you wanna talk economics, let's go, I am quiet confident in data interpretation and macroeconomics.
>so your answere to this problem is voting AFD, which has russian puppets in their own party? \*points to Maximilian Krah, etc." Sounds pretty fucking idiotic to me. Its either befriending Russian puppets or US puppets. >So, prove him wrong then? Shouldnt be too hard to find data about germanys economics the past 20 years. Germanies GDP is declining as one of the only EU Countries. If GDP will rise over this year is yet to be seen. Economy is being bolstered by huge investments into sales of Electronic Cars which are labeled as "Green" but aren't actually green. Production of these vehicels is exremely unfriendly to the environment. They are also already reaching their limits: [https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2024/03/27/germanys-real-challenges-are-aging-underinvestment-and-too-much-red-tape](https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2024/03/27/germanys-real-challenges-are-aging-underinvestment-and-too-much-red-tape) Other Areas are declining. Germany is still importing Gas directly from russia or through third parties, but aren't publicly disclosing it. The only information they give is the Import through Nord Stream 1 which is just one of many pipelines. The only Addition they Add with an \* Is that other sources might include Russian dependencies and are therefore not disclosed. See image here for example: [https://de.statista.com/infografik/30706/taegliche-gasimporte-nach-deutschland-nach-herkunft/](https://de.statista.com/infografik/30706/taegliche-gasimporte-nach-deutschland-nach-herkunft/) Here are a few examples of third party importing, and painting it as independence from russia: [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/imports/india](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/imports/india) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-oil-europe-india-ukraine-war-b2477443.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-oil-europe-india-ukraine-war-b2477443.html) Maybe you should first disprove my claims if you don't believe them, don't you think?
You are cherrypicking statistics now? What do these statistics have to do with macroeconomics? A statistic about gas impotrts, one about "germans challenges" and some articles on imports? What are you trying to proove? That you can find a statistic in your favour when you search for long enough? >Maybe you should first disprove my claims if you don't believe them, don't you think? I mean you talked trash that has yet to be confirmed by data, but if thats how it goes nowadays, here we go: GDP of germany: https://preview.redd.it/07pirxbu7z2d1.png?width=959&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce1e18c928c4337d96a70c5d1d7ddbc7066351da source: [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp) more importantly, GDP per capita in comparison with other european countries: [https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe](https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe) Compared to switzerland: [https://tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/gdp-per-capita-ppp](https://tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/gdp-per-capita-ppp) How do you explain the recession in 2020 in switzerland? Probably the greens in switzerland, right? Also an upwards trend, and still looking really solid. Your declining GDP claim is a blantant lie! Now lets talk about fiscal politics. Germany's m3 money supply is actually DECLINING right now: [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3) As comparison, heres the m3 supply of a country like Turkey, that actually has fiscal problems (high inflation): [https://www.ceicdata.com/en/turkey/money-supply/money-supply-m3](https://www.ceicdata.com/en/turkey/money-supply/money-supply-m3) We can talk about fiscal politics per political party aswell, but I don't think that you are prepared for that kind of talk... Again, lots of talking but no data to back it up. Your average AFD voter
>I mean you talked trash that has yet to be confirmed by data, but if thats how it goes nowadays, here we go: Why dont you zoom into the declining portion at the end of your cherry picked GDP Presentation of the past 20 years? I never said that germany had a bad economy, your Stats prove what I AM saying. >[https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe](https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe) >Also an upwards trend, and still looking really solid. Your declining GDP claim is a blantant lie! What im saying is that the upwards trend is getting lower. GDP Growth is declining and it is a fact. [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE) >Now lets talk about fiscal politics. Germany's m3 money supply is actually DECLINING right now: [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/money-supply-m3) So you actually agree but then say, look at turkey where it is worse? Heuchler, is what i would call you. Why are you ignoring my question on Gas Imports? Judging by your way of speaking just because I disagree, you're unable to live a live outside of your green bubble.
In your initial comment you said: "GDP is declining as one of the only EU countries" not "the growth of the gdp is declining", again: It's a lie and there is data to proof it. GDP declining is a lie and "as only EU country" is the EVEN WORSE lie. >Why dont you zoom into the declining portion at the end of your cherry picked GDP Presentation of the past 20 years? I never said that germany had a bad economy, your Stats prove what I AM saying. Because that is not how data works dude. Cherrypicking data is literally zooming in on the point that justifies your claim. But you always have to see the full context of the data, which you are clearly missing. Shows that you don't really know how to interpret and handle data at all. >What im saying is that the upwards trend is getting lower. GDP Growth is declining and it is a fact. [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=DE) Your "proof" that GDP is declining is also cherrypicked. I told you to compare Germanys data with other EU members which you clearly missed to do again. Because the Decline in Growth is clearly attributed to Covid, a problem ALL OTHER NATIONS on earth had to face, which led to similar development of GDPs. >So you actually agree but then say, look at turkey where it is worse? Heuchler, is what i would call you. Where am I agreeing, wtf? Do you lack basic reading comprehension? I showed you a graph of germanys m3 supply which was DECLINING opposed to Turkeys which is INCREASING super fast. Please dude... >Why are you ignoring my question on Gas Imports? >Judging by your way of speaking just because I disagree, your unable to live a live outside of your green bubble. Because we are not talking about gas, we are talking about macro economics? WTF has gas to do with this? You again cherrypicked a statistic that supports your views, which is just super fucking embarrasing sorry. You calling me "green" in the end is just the cherry on top. Way to make a fool of yourself. It's not about you disagreeing. It's about you disagreeing after being shown data that prooves you wrong. You are clearly just delusional and think you know better than everyone else. You do you and see how far this gets you. You seem to have trouble accepting when you are wrong, because dude I just backed everything up with data, unless you provide conflicting data, this discussion is done. Won't answere to any follow ups because it's pointless when one side is providing facts and the other side is providing opinions.
"After [...] a war is happening right after" Germany is in a war? Kinda hard decoding that english.
Bro calls the current German government communist far left 😂😭💀
this dude is voting the afd on june 9th lmao.
i smell bubble
I heard an interesting theory, the American stock market is pumped by investments from Chinese private individuals, who no longer have faith in Chinese real estate due to the recent crisis, but they continue to save a lot because they have no social security, and that money is there they put in the market and in the American treasury which they see as the safest place possible.
Just think about it we could easily live without any German product. But without Nvidia we are doomed.
There are not really interesting German stocks. A lot of successful companies are not publictly listed in Germany like Bosch for instance
Bayer is worth tracking.
SAP, Siemens, BASF, Lufthansa, BMW, Mercedes, … Just to name a few. Sure it doesn‘t habe those mega corps like the US does, but still there a few interesting candidates. Especially when you don‘t want to buy stocks with PE ratios 30+
Check the long term chart of BASF, LH, BMW and Mercedes and than tell me again these are interesting stocks.
Depends. 5% and more dividend yield. Can be interesting for the more conservative stockholder.
Ur sleeping on Rheinmetall, if you can somehow accept you are profiting off war.
Sleeping on *mentions the most over inflated German stock ever* (I forgot wire card, second most inflated stock)
Why do you think it is overinflated? Europe is racing towards another war that involves the entire continent. Investing in the biggest defense company of the biggest country makes sense, no? About wirecard I have no clue, to me its just fraud combined with politicians/ regulation agencies turning a blind eye.
Now put the earnings growth side by side. We have a company tripling revenue year over year with margins at 80% and a struggling economy. That being said it’s an unfair comparison because the whole world wants to invest in Nvidia and not even Germany themselves would wholeheartedly invest in the German stock market.
This is the market cap of the DAX 30, the 30 leading german public traded companies, not the entire german market, thats in the trillions.
I sold mine, I bought them kinda cheap and thought 25% is good😰😰
Somewhat notable, but Nvidia is not the only company where this is the case, apple and microsoft each have had a higher market cap than germany for 2-3 years now
Without the German lenses form Zeiss, ASML and TSCM Nvidia wouldn't be able to able to build this chips. But yes sadly they outperform us.
Then you should vote for AfD in 2 weeks
Wtf. No! Do a Dexit and see how trade protectionism will kill your wealth.
Ahh yes, destroy the very core of germanys export infrastructure and leverage and pretend it will help the economy. What a clown
Bubbles within Bubbles... Luckily i don't have enougth money to even consider stocks, The fees are more than i have! :D
Germany fucked itself, worst government since decades, energy crisis, Ukraine Russia conflict, billions are channeling to Ukraine while country needs new infrastructure. BASF is considering leaving the country step by step, which may cause domino effect for other companies, energy prices are un-fucking-acceptable for world’s 4th biggest economy, BASF alone requires energy almost as much as Switzerland alone, and energy prices are doubled since last few years. Far Right is on the rise, racist videos are popping up on social media in last few days. Guys here has turned into shit show. But I must add this to the equation as well, USA companies have too overpriced stock values. But nevertheless I would definitely not invest any German company at all at the moment except few. Our future doesn’t look so bright, cuz our government sux and on elections there are not any good options to take their place. We are fucking doomed 🤣😂
thats bc germans are being indoctrinated to a radical left movement that is distroying their economy. All the mayor German companies are going abroad. The only party that would give a solution to this is the AFD which is shunned by mainstrteam media as nazis (wich is incorrect). There is a bigger plan going on to destroy germany as a country in EU politics imo.
Thats the biggest bullshit ever. The AFD is far right Nazi Party which even the far right parties from france and italy refuse to work with because they are too radical. If there is one Party that will certainly ruin Germany and its Reputation in the world, its the AFD.
We would ruin our reputation like Trump did it for the US i guess...
What a bs you are spreading here - AFD are straight out nazis and don’t offer any solutions to the today issues in Germany. Or you think that going out of the € and the EU and going back to Deutsch Mark will help our vastly export oriented economy?! Its only populism and racism they offer - F them.
Obviously the Euro with it's Export fueling value for Germany is bad. It might sound odd, but Germany profits from a weaker currency. Germany could have a better valued currency if they did their own thing, for sure. But it would hurt trade because now other countries aren't as likely to import from Germany with money they don't have that they lend from Germany. The whole EU/Euro is a money farm for every country, but especially Germany. And the AFD thinks removing that will somehow help the economy. "yes my lord, pissing off all our trade partners, giving up on our export leverage and making our own currency which no one accepts currently is a good idea. Surely that will fix everything".
Don't forget that immigrants are at fault for literally everything ever. That's AFD's only selling point.
If you think the current German government is radical left then you've never experienced radical left. Conservative people nowadays see policies that are slightly left and immediately label them as radical left. I get that you might not sympathize with left leaning changes, but just because you don't like them it doesn't mean it's radical
holy fuck
Sure but nvidia is just one or two nifty inventions by team red away from collapsing back to 2019 status. In fact it is just one good kernel driver for linux away from collapse. Not collapse as in bancrupt but back to a normal valuation.
German stocks are garbage tbf
This is just proof that the stock market evaluation is dumb and does not work ...
Lmao all the cope in the comments, if you all are so sure "it's definitely a bubble!!1!" short it and get rich on it
Let's be rational: a global company that dominates the AI accelerator market is worth more than the companies of a single country. Well, why not? The future will be dominated by corporations. Every classic sci-fi book teaches us this.
That country is the third richest in the world
Are we? Damn that sounds nice. Why is me poor?
Are we? Damn that sounds nice. Why is me poor?
Yes we are
ungoing proxy war which could end the world
More reason for buying AMD... Like this "value" comes at cost of... value.
As a german i can only say "Danke Merkel"
Totally not gonna burst at some point.
they are worth a lot more, since Nvidia is heavily overpriced. Either you say "priced" or you believe something that doesn´t exist
I always think that it’s real strange that one company can be worth more than 10 other companies that have probably more than 100times the number of employees. I mean this 10 companies put food on a lot more tables. How does that make sense?