I believe the following answers are **BROADLY** true but will vary from person to person due to tenure, seniority and so on.
*What do bin people get paid currently?*
The starting pay is £13 per hour
*What do they want to get paid?*
More than this. COSLA has offered an increase to £13.16 p/h starting April 1st 2025, rising to £13.31 p/h on October 1st 2025
As a result of their salaries not rising in line with inflation, they now have a real terms pay cut in effect. Every pay increase since 2013 has either been at or below inflation, that means if you started working as a bin worker in 2013, you effectively (if not numerically) earn less now than you did then.
*What is the going “fair” rate for this job?*
Fair is subjective. But given all 13 of the councils balloted for this strike action voted for it to go ahead, it's clear nobody thinks the currently salary is "Fair"
*How is this rate decided?*
A combination of whatever the council can afford vs what the workers are prepared to accept for dealing with other peoples waste, in all weathers, whilst handling a degree of risk to their health not associated with most other jobs.
> As a result of their salaries not rising in line with inflation, they now have a real terms pay cut in effect.
Side note, this applies to almost everyone... check out [HL Inflation Calculator](https://www.hl.co.uk/tools/calculators/inflation-calculator) and try putting in the salary you were on 5 years ago to see how much worse off you are now.
Not sure what Labour can/will do to fix this but at least we'll be shot of the Tories tomorrow.
There was an article a few years ago that suggested that they work a "Task and finish" routine, ie. once they've completed the tasks for that days route, they are done for the day. As such, they get paid for 7 or 8 hours, but finish 2 or 3 hours earlier, so actually only work 4 or 5 hours. If this is correct, it alters the hourly rate somewhat. It also gives them an element of autonomy over their working hours.
They did but this has practice has been banned by the council because they "Want their money's worth". It was not an every day occurrence.
In the last few months the workers have been working to rule to show what happens when they do the job "properly". Long story short it's worse for everybody. They were always going above and beyond to earn the occasional early finish.
There's no autonomy with working hours. I believe cleansing workers still work a 4 on 4 off shift pattern and work 6am-6pm (there is a night shift too) Finishing 2 hours early occasionally still meant they worked a 10 hour day.
> But given all 13 of the councils balloted for this strike action voted for it to go ahead, it's clear nobody thinks the currently salary is "Fair"
Not sure that's a good metric. Probably a majority of any random group of people think they should be paid more than they are currently being paid
They weren't asked whether they should be paid more.
They were asked to vote on industrial action against their employer and suffer some major short term financial losses for the potential to be paid more in the future.
Plus all the other stuff that comes along with that. Picketing and what not. Not to mention the potential for retaliation.
This isn't a strike on behalf of the bin workers. It's an entire local government pay claim, and at this stage only the bin workers are striking. After that, it might be council tax workers, or environmental health. The unions coordinate to decide which group or workplace it will be.
I don't think it's directly on behalf of all local government workers. It's just that the first deal is often the anchor around which all other deals are based. i.e. if the waste workers settled for 2.2%, that will be held up as a reason the teachers can't get 4% "because that wouldn't be fair". So unions need early wins to anchor the conversation around higher numbers.
It's all local government workers (except teachers who are on separate Ts&Cs).
Source: I'm a local government worker, UNISON member and until last week, a UNISON steward.
I see your questions have already been answered. This is just my two pence worth.
UNISON are asking for every LA worker to be paid a minimum of £15/hr. That is the goal and that is what COSLA have been informed of. The bin men have the striking power and it is them that can make it happen.
The last number of weeks the bin men have been working to rule and there is plenty of the run not getting their bins emptied because of that. Showing they are tasked with a mammoth job for not much money and go above what they need to.
CEC are making serious cuts. I'm not sure how much they can actually funnel towards wages. I'm all for striking as CEC employees are the lowest paid out of all local authorities in Scotland. I can see why it needs to happen, I'm uncertain how much is in the coffers to make it happen though.
They have men and women earning under £20k a year for emptying bins. They are right to strike. And I live here and support them 100%.
During the festival, there's 3x more people than normal, too. There's no extra pay for dealing with that.
What's your source for that figure ?
Because I posted the pay scales for Edinburgh Council on another thread earlier and there's no grade or band that's on under £20k for a full time post.
I am only going on what's posted on the council website so if it's true then no problem, but if it's based on what the union rep was spouting in the press I think it may need some salt...
The union rep didn't mention bin workers specifically, they spoke about local government employees, which is accurate.
For example a grade 3 or below worker working 30 hours a week would be on <20k
There's no official definition of "Full Time".
Personally I'd consider someone who works 6 hours a day, 5 days a week as "Full Time" (I wouldn't consider that "Part Time") but others may have a higher number in mind.
Certainly I've seen many roles advertised as "Full time, 30+ hours a week" and the limit for Working Tax Credit is 30 hours.
It's a semantic issue anyway, there's a wide agreement that these people are not paid enough.
Biffa pay 12.25/hr and expect you to work 45hrs per week.
From 3pm til midnight. At the airport. Working weekends.
https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c557291a9c08e3af&from=serp&prevUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fm%2Fjobs%3Fgad_source%3D1%26gclid%3DCj0KCQjw7ZO0BhDYARIsAFttkCjUua6-vUsoUx5esqdacLvGcfRtFe3w9DvQVZIrqd5KWuZI5AttsLwaAs3zEALw_wcB%26q%3DBiffa%2BWaste%26aceid%3D&xpse=SoDM67I3_8Y_LXwNKh0LbzkdCdPP&xfps=a3fb2df9-cba3-4738-b6e2-8c9e5a58d6d9&xkcb=SoC867M3_8Y_3MVvgx0KbzkdCdPP
Just for context.
COSLA issue what the rise in pay will be and it’s up to the various organisations and appropriate Trade Unions to work out a deal which’s then presented to members of said Trade Unions to either accept or reject.
The market decides what a "fair" rate is (although the concept of "fair" in pay is normally used by people who haven't fully grown up). People are paid according to the rarity of their abilities and their willingness to use those abilities.
Bin men are doing something that, basically, anyone able bodied and with an IQ in the top 90% of humanity could do, so they don't get paid very much. It's a little higher because it's unpleasant and has bad hours, so they get more because of that.
Just had a quick look at your posting history.
I’m sorry to see everything you’ve been through and I hope that things start to get better for you soon.
Just to compare, they get £13ph currently, majority of supermarkets are around £12ph, and if you are a groceries online delivery driver you get an additional £1.50ph taking your pay to £13.50ph plus they'll get a discount from the supermarket they work for. Although the roles are similar in the sense of driving about the city to various premises, I'd rank being a bin worker as slightly more difficult/awkward considering the shifts and what they need to directly deal with. "Fair" would be therefore be over £13.50ph, more like £14ph.
I don’t really think they have to deal with much being honest. They drive up to a bin, jump out. Wheel a bin to the lorry and press buttons for the lorry to empty the bin.
In my experience if anything tips out, or is left at the side of the road, they just leave it because that isn’t their job. I think people think of bin men of old, actually emptying bins into the trucks themselves, which they no longer do.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against anyone getting a fair wage and think that these minimum (or near minimum) wages are a bad reflection on our society. That’s especially so when the head of CEC is on over £200k, which is frankly a joke. We really need rules around maximum wages for people that are based on the minimum wage in the organisation.
That's a very simplistic view of what Bin workers do.
Yes they do all of that, but in heat waves, snow storms, driving rain, sleet, hail, gale force winds etc.
They work in the road constantly. Injuries and accidents by road users are not uncommon, neither is abuse from the public.
Most public bins are still manually emptied.
The same workers also do special uplifts and recycling.
Those bins are full of everything. Household waste, rotting food, dead animals, animal waste, human waste, needles, vomit, the list goes on and on.
My experience of bin workers is that if they drop something they'll pick it up.
Further, they've been working to rule the last couple of months. Bins are not getting emptied, there's an increase in rubbish in the streets etc etc. If that doesn't show you how much they go above and beyond then I don't know what will.
Personally, you couldn't pay me £13 p/h to walk behind a bin lorry on a summers day, let alone empty bins into it.
Poor Lorna Slater tried to bring it back, but UK Government said they weren't allowed to include glass in the deposit scheme.
My personal (crackpot) theory is that they were worried gingies would become the main currency in Scotland, making GBP redundant and solving the currency question which is one of the big barriers to independence.
The bin workers are striking on behalf of all council workers. The unions choose them because they are the most effective people to strike and get the public attention. In Fife they did this and then they followed up with nursery workers and dinner ladies this caused maximum disruption and eventually the pay claim was settled.
Last year it was schools and early years workers who were balloted to strike by unison. However they let them strike and didn’t tell them they had already accepted a deal. The current pay offer is about 2.2% which on a grade 5 staff member on the scale is about 30p an hour.
Another consideration is that by paying the bin workers more they may be open to equality lawsuits. Birmingham City Council was bankrupted after a successful claim showing that male dominated entry level jobs such as waste management were more highly paid than female dominated jobs such as cleaner or carer.
It won't happen. They're not negotiating a pay rise for refuse collectors. The bin guys are the group currently on strike, on behalf of all local government workers. Any pay rise will be applied to all local government workers. It might be a flat rate £2k per year for everyone on under £25k and 1.5% for everyone else, or a flat rate for everyone, or a percentage rise for everyone, but it won't be just for the bin men.
Indeed and in my opinion carers should be paid more and properly for what they do. Ie have sick pay, be paid for time between visits and not have these counted as breaks.
AND To enable that we should pay more taxes at least those that can and councils should be properly funded by central government.
We do already pay quite a lot of tax. I’d be happy to pay more if the government / the organisations they employ aren’t massively wasteful and unaccountable.
Completely agree with you on carers though.
Cue the downvotes...but those aren't the same jobs and there's nothing stopping women applying for the higher paid one (as far as I'm aware). It's not really equality if you're doing a different job.
I believe the following answers are **BROADLY** true but will vary from person to person due to tenure, seniority and so on. *What do bin people get paid currently?* The starting pay is £13 per hour *What do they want to get paid?* More than this. COSLA has offered an increase to £13.16 p/h starting April 1st 2025, rising to £13.31 p/h on October 1st 2025 As a result of their salaries not rising in line with inflation, they now have a real terms pay cut in effect. Every pay increase since 2013 has either been at or below inflation, that means if you started working as a bin worker in 2013, you effectively (if not numerically) earn less now than you did then. *What is the going “fair” rate for this job?* Fair is subjective. But given all 13 of the councils balloted for this strike action voted for it to go ahead, it's clear nobody thinks the currently salary is "Fair" *How is this rate decided?* A combination of whatever the council can afford vs what the workers are prepared to accept for dealing with other peoples waste, in all weathers, whilst handling a degree of risk to their health not associated with most other jobs.
> As a result of their salaries not rising in line with inflation, they now have a real terms pay cut in effect. Side note, this applies to almost everyone... check out [HL Inflation Calculator](https://www.hl.co.uk/tools/calculators/inflation-calculator) and try putting in the salary you were on 5 years ago to see how much worse off you are now. Not sure what Labour can/will do to fix this but at least we'll be shot of the Tories tomorrow.
The difference between bin workers and "everyone" is that bin workers have a union. Join the union if you can, whenever you can.
Thank you for a really useful answer without the rhetoric that’s posted elsewhere here.
There was an article a few years ago that suggested that they work a "Task and finish" routine, ie. once they've completed the tasks for that days route, they are done for the day. As such, they get paid for 7 or 8 hours, but finish 2 or 3 hours earlier, so actually only work 4 or 5 hours. If this is correct, it alters the hourly rate somewhat. It also gives them an element of autonomy over their working hours.
They did but this has practice has been banned by the council because they "Want their money's worth". It was not an every day occurrence. In the last few months the workers have been working to rule to show what happens when they do the job "properly". Long story short it's worse for everybody. They were always going above and beyond to earn the occasional early finish. There's no autonomy with working hours. I believe cleansing workers still work a 4 on 4 off shift pattern and work 6am-6pm (there is a night shift too) Finishing 2 hours early occasionally still meant they worked a 10 hour day.
> But given all 13 of the councils balloted for this strike action voted for it to go ahead, it's clear nobody thinks the currently salary is "Fair" Not sure that's a good metric. Probably a majority of any random group of people think they should be paid more than they are currently being paid
They weren't asked whether they should be paid more. They were asked to vote on industrial action against their employer and suffer some major short term financial losses for the potential to be paid more in the future. Plus all the other stuff that comes along with that. Picketing and what not. Not to mention the potential for retaliation.
This isn't a strike on behalf of the bin workers. It's an entire local government pay claim, and at this stage only the bin workers are striking. After that, it might be council tax workers, or environmental health. The unions coordinate to decide which group or workplace it will be.
Ah ok. Thanks for the info
I don't think it's directly on behalf of all local government workers. It's just that the first deal is often the anchor around which all other deals are based. i.e. if the waste workers settled for 2.2%, that will be held up as a reason the teachers can't get 4% "because that wouldn't be fair". So unions need early wins to anchor the conversation around higher numbers.
It's all local government workers (except teachers who are on separate Ts&Cs). Source: I'm a local government worker, UNISON member and until last week, a UNISON steward.
I see your questions have already been answered. This is just my two pence worth. UNISON are asking for every LA worker to be paid a minimum of £15/hr. That is the goal and that is what COSLA have been informed of. The bin men have the striking power and it is them that can make it happen. The last number of weeks the bin men have been working to rule and there is plenty of the run not getting their bins emptied because of that. Showing they are tasked with a mammoth job for not much money and go above what they need to. CEC are making serious cuts. I'm not sure how much they can actually funnel towards wages. I'm all for striking as CEC employees are the lowest paid out of all local authorities in Scotland. I can see why it needs to happen, I'm uncertain how much is in the coffers to make it happen though.
They have men and women earning under £20k a year for emptying bins. They are right to strike. And I live here and support them 100%. During the festival, there's 3x more people than normal, too. There's no extra pay for dealing with that.
I’m not asking about the rights or wrongs. I have no opinion on that. Just asking this community for more info.
What's your source for that figure ? Because I posted the pay scales for Edinburgh Council on another thread earlier and there's no grade or band that's on under £20k for a full time post. I am only going on what's posted on the council website so if it's true then no problem, but if it's based on what the union rep was spouting in the press I think it may need some salt...
The union rep didn't mention bin workers specifically, they spoke about local government employees, which is accurate. For example a grade 3 or below worker working 30 hours a week would be on <20k
A 30 hr week is not full-time though, is it ?
Edinburgh council's full time is 36 hours.
Which, last I checked, is more than 30.
I was clarifying, not correcting.
There's no official definition of "Full Time". Personally I'd consider someone who works 6 hours a day, 5 days a week as "Full Time" (I wouldn't consider that "Part Time") but others may have a higher number in mind. Certainly I've seen many roles advertised as "Full time, 30+ hours a week" and the limit for Working Tax Credit is 30 hours. It's a semantic issue anyway, there's a wide agreement that these people are not paid enough.
30 hours is a 4 day week for most 9-5 workers. It's equivalent to £25k for 37.5 hours. Which is less unreasonable.
Their right to strike allows them to decide what a fair rate is and refuse to work if they feel this isn't being met.
around £13 per hour Fair rate, a lot more than £13
Biffa pay 12.25/hr and expect you to work 45hrs per week. From 3pm til midnight. At the airport. Working weekends. https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c557291a9c08e3af&from=serp&prevUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fm%2Fjobs%3Fgad_source%3D1%26gclid%3DCj0KCQjw7ZO0BhDYARIsAFttkCjUua6-vUsoUx5esqdacLvGcfRtFe3w9DvQVZIrqd5KWuZI5AttsLwaAs3zEALw_wcB%26q%3DBiffa%2BWaste%26aceid%3D&xpse=SoDM67I3_8Y_LXwNKh0LbzkdCdPP&xfps=a3fb2df9-cba3-4738-b6e2-8c9e5a58d6d9&xkcb=SoC867M3_8Y_3MVvgx0KbzkdCdPP Just for context.
Outfits like Biffa being privately-owned look for a race to the bottom in terms of salaries.
They should strike.
I guess I’m asking what the going rate is and who decides that?
The workers.
COSLA issue what the rise in pay will be and it’s up to the various organisations and appropriate Trade Unions to work out a deal which’s then presented to members of said Trade Unions to either accept or reject.
The market decides what a "fair" rate is (although the concept of "fair" in pay is normally used by people who haven't fully grown up). People are paid according to the rarity of their abilities and their willingness to use those abilities. Bin men are doing something that, basically, anyone able bodied and with an IQ in the top 90% of humanity could do, so they don't get paid very much. It's a little higher because it's unpleasant and has bad hours, so they get more because of that.
Is this your first day on Earth?
Is this your last day being a twat? I'll answer for you: almost certainly not.
Don't presume to answer for me.
Thank you for turning my questions into such a positive experience for everyone.
No problem, glad to help
Just had a quick look at your posting history. I’m sorry to see everything you’ve been through and I hope that things start to get better for you soon.
Just to compare, they get £13ph currently, majority of supermarkets are around £12ph, and if you are a groceries online delivery driver you get an additional £1.50ph taking your pay to £13.50ph plus they'll get a discount from the supermarket they work for. Although the roles are similar in the sense of driving about the city to various premises, I'd rank being a bin worker as slightly more difficult/awkward considering the shifts and what they need to directly deal with. "Fair" would be therefore be over £13.50ph, more like £14ph.
I don’t really think they have to deal with much being honest. They drive up to a bin, jump out. Wheel a bin to the lorry and press buttons for the lorry to empty the bin. In my experience if anything tips out, or is left at the side of the road, they just leave it because that isn’t their job. I think people think of bin men of old, actually emptying bins into the trucks themselves, which they no longer do. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against anyone getting a fair wage and think that these minimum (or near minimum) wages are a bad reflection on our society. That’s especially so when the head of CEC is on over £200k, which is frankly a joke. We really need rules around maximum wages for people that are based on the minimum wage in the organisation.
That's a very simplistic view of what Bin workers do. Yes they do all of that, but in heat waves, snow storms, driving rain, sleet, hail, gale force winds etc. They work in the road constantly. Injuries and accidents by road users are not uncommon, neither is abuse from the public. Most public bins are still manually emptied. The same workers also do special uplifts and recycling. Those bins are full of everything. Household waste, rotting food, dead animals, animal waste, human waste, needles, vomit, the list goes on and on. My experience of bin workers is that if they drop something they'll pick it up. Further, they've been working to rule the last couple of months. Bins are not getting emptied, there's an increase in rubbish in the streets etc etc. If that doesn't show you how much they go above and beyond then I don't know what will. Personally, you couldn't pay me £13 p/h to walk behind a bin lorry on a summers day, let alone empty bins into it.
£13 an hour + ginger bottles
showing your age there. Gingies havent gotten you money back in at least a decade i'd say.
Poor Lorna Slater tried to bring it back, but UK Government said they weren't allowed to include glass in the deposit scheme. My personal (crackpot) theory is that they were worried gingies would become the main currency in Scotland, making GBP redundant and solving the currency question which is one of the big barriers to independence.
They get a bucket load of cash
The bin workers are striking on behalf of all council workers. The unions choose them because they are the most effective people to strike and get the public attention. In Fife they did this and then they followed up with nursery workers and dinner ladies this caused maximum disruption and eventually the pay claim was settled.
Last year it was schools and early years workers who were balloted to strike by unison. However they let them strike and didn’t tell them they had already accepted a deal. The current pay offer is about 2.2% which on a grade 5 staff member on the scale is about 30p an hour.
Most IA is rarely just about pay.
Another consideration is that by paying the bin workers more they may be open to equality lawsuits. Birmingham City Council was bankrupted after a successful claim showing that male dominated entry level jobs such as waste management were more highly paid than female dominated jobs such as cleaner or carer.
Wow. Plot twist. That’s an interesting dynamic
It won't happen. They're not negotiating a pay rise for refuse collectors. The bin guys are the group currently on strike, on behalf of all local government workers. Any pay rise will be applied to all local government workers. It might be a flat rate £2k per year for everyone on under £25k and 1.5% for everyone else, or a flat rate for everyone, or a percentage rise for everyone, but it won't be just for the bin men.
Indeed and in my opinion carers should be paid more and properly for what they do. Ie have sick pay, be paid for time between visits and not have these counted as breaks. AND To enable that we should pay more taxes at least those that can and councils should be properly funded by central government.
We do already pay quite a lot of tax. I’d be happy to pay more if the government / the organisations they employ aren’t massively wasteful and unaccountable. Completely agree with you on carers though.
Cue the downvotes...but those aren't the same jobs and there's nothing stopping women applying for the higher paid one (as far as I'm aware). It's not really equality if you're doing a different job.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c147024jyp9o.amp
This doesn't answer any of the OP's questions