Why would you wanna go to Chicago right now? They're gonna be terrible for 5 years. Unless it's retirement, I'm surprised he wants out of edmonton, especially getting so close to a cup
Nuge missed some shots, but I'd say far from disappointing. Dude plays a complete game, every game.
Hope he works on is shot timing and accuracy in the off season, but even if he's reached his ceiling there he's still an amazing player.
In Hollands 5 years as GM:
2020 - 83 points in 71 games. Lost in QR.
2021 - 72 points in 56 games. Lost in 1st round.
2022 - 104 points in 82 games. Lost in 3rd round.
2023 - 109 points in 82 games. Lost in 2nd round.
2024 - 104 points in 82 games. Lost in Finals.
Finished 2nd in their division each year.
220-121-32 record. 7th in the league.
30-31 playoff record. 6th most wins in the league.
Overall a good GM for the team. He took over a franchise in disarray and improved it each season he was here.
That series began my panic response to deflections. It has felt like to me that ever since then, people score tons of deflection goals on us and we score like none
2020 was a weird best of 5 right after a 6 week (I think) stoppage, and right after the team had been a near lottery team for 2 years. 2021 was a disappointing series yes.
It was actually over four months between the end of the regular season and the playoffs that year. Basically a full off-season. Each team got one exhibition game before being thrown into elimination games (except for the four top teams in the league by point percentage).
The Oilers weren't a good enough team to win the cup that year but the way the NHL set up those playoffs was mind-bogglingly stupid. The NBA had a way better solution.
5 winning seasons, and in the final year:
-Arguably the best line in hockey(RNH-McDavid-Hyman)
-A top pairing that’s top 3 in all of the NHL(Ekholm-Bouchard)
-2 goals away from a Stanley Cup
He didn’t get the job done, but he got as close as you could have asked for
He made some good deals and some bad, but most importantly the team got way more competitive under him compare to other GM, so that's very good in my books.
Stu was a 2017 draft pick, Vinny was 2016, both from Chia. Our cupboard for new young talent is pretty dry and everyone that we're hoping on besides Holloway have been Chia draft picks.
To me drafting and development is 2 different category, I don't mind Kenny didn't rush our prospect through the system, thought sometime he waited too long imo (Broberg)
Again, I don't mind that he's not rushing people. But there's no one outside of Holloway and Broberg that's going to step up here and fill a roster stop for us. Chia gave us a lot of value in the later rounds, people like McLeod, Kesselring, Kemp, Rodrigue, even people like John Marino (who I know didnt pan out here but is a legit NHLer) in the 6th round. Not one of the Oilers draft picks save Dylan Holloway has played one game for us.
At the end of the day you need to ask yourself though
Do we value having picks/prospects or winning a cup? You don’t get to make improvements without giving up draft capital or moving out someone with value. What else could we have moved instead of a 1st/barrie to get ekholm? We don’t pickup Henrique if we don’t give up a pick it’s not like Anaheim would take Campbell in exchange
I mean, you can do both. It was fine that he traded the 1st rounders for immediate help, but even the late round picks have not panned out. Which is one thing that I give Chia credit to (which I will loathe to do), is that later rounds he had an eye for picking out NHL players. Holland and team do not.
EDIT: And that's how you sustain a good team in a cap era, especially now that we're going to be paying a lot for Drai and Connor and you need young cheap talent to fill out the roster and help
A solid B, he’s good at picking around the edges, Kane was a solid pickup by him and helped a lot in the playoffs 2 years ago, Hyman contract is arguably the best free agent signing ever, Ekholm deal was a home run, Skinner deal was solid for a bridge think it still has 2 years left even
Unfair to crucify him over Broberg and Holloway just yet, I think we seen both of those players just make a huge step forward, very curious to see how that carries into next year.
Nurse contract is a big fumble as it was even rumored, nurse confirmed, they had a 4 year deal set in place I’m guessing there really wish they held there now. Campbell just never should have happened, was crazy they didn’t just find a 1-2 year option to run skinner as that was always the plan.
Development I can agree has been poor but after Holloway we’ve been like pick 20 and later where the success rate is like 30-40 percent
I think B is where I land too with Holland. Not A not C. I don't know why I'm getting crucified for this take lol. The issue when Hyman and Ekholm considered, Campbell and Nurse are going to handcuff this team for a while, with whatever happens to them. That's a huge problem he just left us
> Development I can agree has been poor but after Holloway we’ve been like pick 20 and later where the success rate is like 30-40 percent
It's funny because Chia was really good at late draft picks, really good. Our cupboard has been bare since he left. It was the only thing he was good for.
Because you said C likely which isn’t true, and the F on drafting, it hasn’t been good but it’s also a little too early to put it over the coals completely. Essentially you’re saying his entire tenure here is an average of a D? He took this team from out of the playoffs to 2 goals away from a cup, it’s definitely not as bad as you say
Chiarelli’s drafting is the only reason he still has any associations with NHL front offices
No I said on average B or C. More like a B- He made some moves that made the team better and some that have and will handcuff the team for a while. What grade would you give Holland?
Oh for sure, those are Holland's high marks. But he also signed Nurse and Campbell to amazingly awful contracts, and both of those has handcuffed the team. He also signed Nuge to a good contract, but also signed Zack Kassian to a bad contract. He traded for Ekholm, his best trade. He also traded for Duncan Keith, Athanesiou, and Mike Green (his worst trades). So we have to look at the totality of it right?
Uh huh, do you think if Holland looked at the Ceci pair at the start of the season like everyone was telling him to do, and did something about that, we wouldn't be planning a Stanley Cup parade right now? Like yeah the team did well under him, but we can't just say "we made the finals" and call that a grade. That's foolish. Chia won a cup with the Bruins, and he was one of the worst GM's we ever had.
I hate when people bitch about his trades for Athanasiou and Green. He made deals for two guys that would undoubtedly help the team, then Green got hurt and Covid hit and shut it all down. Because of that, the cap stayed flat for three years and suddenly they couldn't afford Athanasiou. Green didn't want to play in the bubble and retired after. Complain all you want about signing a risky goalie or the Nurse deal when they had the team over the Klefbom Barrel, but AA and Green aren't Kenny's fault.
You can't make a cake out of dirt...... We did not have a very good pipeline before.
Trades in a tight cap are never going to look good on their own.
Some of the signings he made, like Nurse, were due to the previous guard bridging him more than they should. The money he has made to date is market value. Just the hit hurts alone and will be better in a couple years. If nurse walked we wouldn't have had the two years previous being what they were.
This city runs players out, not draws them in. And there is a tax for that....
I think you’re holding a lot of water for our poor poor multi million dollar GM. Chia actually drafted well and landed on players in the later rounds. Holland could not. Trades in a tight cap, everyone in the NHL has the same problem. Yet some GM’s are better at this than Holland. The money that Nurse gets paid is not market value right now btw. Look at dom’s model for that. And Nurse’s overpay also led to Bouchard’s bridge deal which we will have to pay major for that when we could’ve had him cheaper. All of these moves have consequences
Yeah sure we can hate on Holland, like yeah I get it as fans our job is to scrutinize. But he's been one of the better GMs we've had over the past decade.
Same. I look back at how a majority of us hated that he fired Woody & co, and now a majority of us are saying the Oil wouldn’t be where they are without Knob & co.
Easy to overlook the smart moves and focus on the negative outliers.
Interestingly I remember a lot of us putting that on Jeff Jackson, he seemed to be in the driver's seat for that whole news conference and whatnot. I was a pretty big detractor about the coaching change at the time (my tune has changed).
Agree though, easy to forget the good and focus on the bad.
Sure it did. But it’s not the only reason. It takes a team. With out them we aren’t there. Also true is without our role players we aren’t there either.
Noob here. I know the workings of soccer but not hockey orgs.
What does a hockey GM do and how instrumental is he to our wins? I always assumed that the coach does most of that
To roughly equate a hockey team to a typical soccer team:
Hockey GM = Director of Football
Hockey Head Coach = Manager
In a basic sense, the GM is responsible for hiring/firing coaches, signing/trading players, and drafting new players.
Which at the time of signing was considered a bit of an overpay compared to Pasta. Chia gets only the barest of credit for that because you can't even argue that he thought Drai was gonna turn out the way he did when he considered shopping Drai and Nurse for PK
At the time of the signing, it was on par of where he should be. Nobody could ever predict he would break out into a top 5 player in the world, making the contract one of the best value in the league.
He’s been excellent. The current deals that people complain about (Nurse and Soup) were during really skewed seasons for defensemen and goalies respectively. His trade deadline deals the last couple of years have been really good.
Well this could be McDavid’s best chance at winning a cup for a few years. Florida at least has a more well rounded roster than the Oilers. They could’ve won the cup if McDavid and Draisaitl didn’t play 60 minutes in 2 consecutive playoff games
Yeah was everyone expecting him to be absolutely perfect and make no mistakes? Yes, Campbell was a shit show and Nurse was a big overpay and that is definitely hurting the team. But he’s also made some awesome trades and signings like Ekholm, Kane, and Hyman and has proven that this team can go all the way
Agreed. If he's slowing down I can understand the need for a transition, but Holland's body of work seems solid. The only step that seemed like an error at the time was the Nurse overpay, but it's hard to say what his other options would have been (after all our years trying to plug holes on D you certainly couldn't let Nurse go and create another one).
Lowe had some issues (killing the Comrie for Perry and a 1st trade over Comrie’s bonus) but his time as GM was actually pretty decent considering our money issues pre-cap/Katz and included the ‘06 run. Tambo was where things really went off the rails.
But on the flip side, everything Lowe related since he left the GM job has been a gongshow *at best*.
Ya definitely, he's been maybe the best (behind Sather, but that was a different era)! He came in and did exactly what he said he was going to do. He told us what it would look like, and it happened exactly as he said. It's not his fault we didn't score two more goals.
It's not a fans job to scrutinize. Ain't no fan getting paid to do anything, and our role as fans is just to care. Caring doesn't mean being little whiney bitches like many of the dunce caps in this sub.
Depends who we get. Originally I was *not* happy with Jeff Jackson for the whole Knob/Woody situation but clearly I'm the one who is a fucking idiot, not Jeff Jackson. And I believe Jackson has a role in hiring the GM (there have been some rumors he might just also take on GM responsibilities) and tbh I think I'd be ok with that. I clearly misjudged Jackson earlier this season.
I now also think Jackson is the guy but at the time it *really* seemed like it was just an attempt to make McDavid happy by bringing in characters from his past. Jackson is his agent. Brown played with him in Erie. Knob coached him in Erie. Even Foegele has the Erie connection (although he's been here a while now).
Just felt like appeasement moves rather than actually building the team stronger. Clearly that sentiment was wrong, but it was how I (and many others) felt earlier this season.
To be fair he's not our GM, he's the CEO of Hockey Operations. Which I believe is technically above the GM.
And no, I'm not sure this situation has occurred before, where a player agent was also an active member of hockey management at the club his player is playing for. On one hand it seems potentially problematic but I dunno, after the success this season (even if no cup) it's hard to argue. I'm sure it'll be scrutinized if things go downhill moving forward.
This year is still tied to Ken Holland so the jury is out. I can definitely see a lot of problems arise from that and I’m kinda hoping he brings someone in. We need a home run this off season
Thanks for making us contenders. Lost to the cup winners 3 years in a row now. Wish we could of got it done with him. Hope we are able to keep what he has built for a long time.
Him building a team that was one goal shy in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup shows he did a good job overall. Not perfect but very good. That, and he made the franchise as a whole respectable. Hopefully JJ can take us to the next level. Good luck Kenny
Despite the hate for him, he did what he said he came here to do. In his[ initial presser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrpNg8qow_U) (05/07/2019) he said he "wants playoffs in 2019-20.... and hopefully competing for the cup in 5 years.".
We've been playoffs every year since 19/20 and we were 2 goals from winning the cup this year. Hyman and Ekholm are two massive moves that really solidified our team. Re-signing Nuge. I still think Kane was a good pickup.
On the Nurse overpayment, yeah it fuckin sucks but that's more on Nurse in my opinion, he should've taken a "discount". We lost both Klef and Larsson and Jones just signed for 9m. If we let Nurse walk our dcore was Kris Russell, Tyson Barrie, Ethan Bear, Dmitry Kulikov.
Campbell was a big fuckup yeah, but I don't think the one fuckup makes his whole tenure as bad as people act like it was.
It was one game difference from hoisting the cup with the roster he constructed. I think he did good.
People criticize the Nurse contract and Campbell signings, and rightly so, but I think every GM in the league has a couple of contracts they regret. Weighing his mistakes against what he built, I think he did well. The change from what he took over to where he leaves is massive.
Good: Nuge contract, Hyman contract, Ekholm trade, Foegele trade, getting out of Lucic contract, taking a risk on Kane
Bad: Nurse contract, Campbell contract, poor prospect pool and draft selection, Kassian contract, passing on Wallstedt, lack of top 6 winger and top 4 D
Nurse and Campbell might be the two worst contracts in the league. Having them both dragging down this team just shows you how good McJesus actually is.
If you look at what he did to Detroit as well he might be the worst GM of the salary cap era.
Pretty successful 5 year run by Holland here. He made more good moves than bad and transformed the team into perennial contender. More importantly, brought stability, trust, and respect to the org. Before Holland, there was no org plan, players and staff always looking over their shoulders because they could get fired/traded randomly. The owner would overrule management because of unqualified voices in his ears. Now the Oilers are considered a respectable org run by management with minimal outsider influences and players want to play here again. Best of luck to Holland wherever he goes next.
I honestly give Holland an A- for his tenure. Look and what he inherited from Chia and look what he did
Campbell didn’t work out but that’s really the only major blunder I can think of. The Kassian signing wasn’t super great but the Lucic/Neal move was a win-win
Hyman is the best contract in the NHL
Barrie was great and turned into Ekholm which was even better
Keith was a great bring on
Woody was a fantastic coach till he dug his heels in on Manson
The drafting was eh but Holland has always been the type of GM to draft and overcook
He turned Chia’s garbage into a 5-year playoff streak and a Cup contender team
I was skeptical at the time he was hired, but I think we can absolutely say he did a good to great job here. Leaving the team in a significantly better position than when he found it, which is a hell of a lot more than you can say about the guy before him.
Loved Holland, sure I would’ve paid Nurse 8x8.25 at the time but y’all are so bitter. Campbell was the one signing I harshly disagreed with even at the time.
Broberg, Holloway, Hyman, Ekholm, Kane, Foegele, Brown, Henrique, Perry, Janmark, Kulak, all his doing. Not to mention all the trades he didn’t make.
Best GM we’ve had my entire Oilers watching life and it is not even close. Be grateful doomers!
This fucking fanbase is insufferable. People in here saying we should have already won multiple cups and not doing so is a failure. No wonder /r/hockey hates us.
I just really hope our management doesn't fall into the trap of getting a guy with "stanley cup experience" as the next GM. we don't need a guy who solved the formula to win a cup ten years ago, we just need a guy who knows how to consistently add value to our team with roster moves in 2024.
His first few years were rough (Nurse contract, several other rough contracts/trades). His last 1-2 years he's brought in some additional help (Brad Holland, Jeff Jackson, new analytics team, new Pro Scouts, a sports psychologist finally) and the organization has modernized quite a bit. It's shown on the ice too.
Overall, glad he's gone, and I think he's leaving the organization in decent hands
I think he came in to an incredibly difficult position with very little room for error. Almost all his moves were good to great in hindsight, but the bad ones were exceptionally bad.
In the end he executed his 5-year plan as he drew it up, which is better than most GMs. Thank you Dutch. Once an Oiler always an Oiler.
One thing I will say about Holland is that I think he earned a lot of trust and loyalty from the players. He was big one communication with them and getting feedback from them. I think it appeared he was honest with them so players were on good terms with him. I think it helped bring in players or keep them here.
I also hope if he leaves it’s to retire and on good terms with the team. Would love him to stay in some capacity to help advise.
My other concern is his son Brad may leave if Holland doesn’t retire and goes elsewhere. How badly that may affect the team dynamics moving forward as well.
I really like Holland. I am also a Wings fan and liked him there despite what a lot of wings fans say as I know the owner had him go a direction at the tail end that he wasn’t planning on doing.
Personally I wish Holland would have stayed on as GM for another year. He made mistakes, he owns up to them. But he pretty much was honest with fans when he got here and accomplished everything he promised, with one goal away from the cup. And for that I am forever grateful.
To people crapping on Holland.
Would you seriously take Lowe (who couldn’t draft even in 2003) or Chiarelli (who botched trades) over him?
He is an upgrade plus he gave us deep playoff runs.
As an outsider’s perspective (Wings fan), Holland’s Edmonton tenure was a net positive on the organization. And I’m not speaking from bias, as I never followed any of our cup wins and I mostly saw Holland ruin our organization
Holland gets a lot of hate. He made some bad deals... but the Holland era has been the best time to be an Oilers fan since the Sather era.
The man came into year 4 of McDavid, when the team was actively floundering and getting worse year over year, and _never missed the post-season_. The Oilers won the same number of playoff rounds under Ken Holland as between 1992 and 2019.
Thank you Ken Holland turning this organisation around.
I think he is completely underappreciated, I do not believe any other GM in the league would have been able to get where the Oilers are now from the past 5 years.
Where every past GM during the Dod, seemed to dig the hole deeper, Holland came in (willingly) on the hardest difficulty and scenario for a GM, and using every trick in the book, helped them climb out of the hole, and made the Oilers a contender with what was left to him from prior GMs.
I for one have been very grateful for Holland as our GM, he is literally been one of best GMs we had in decades based on results. Hands down.
He seemed to work well with Jackson, and I personally would have kept him on for one more year, so he can finish what he started. I know he did what he said when he got here, and that was to make the Oilers a contender. But I wanted to see him win the cup with the team he helped build to get to this point.
He brought in the type of players that worked well with the core and brought stability to the team.
Some arguments that are used to downplay and belittle his achievements are petty.
The Nurse contract is what it is, at the time of the signing, Nurse just had a career year, and with no sign of any reinforcements coming from FA or the pipeline. And defencemen of similar caliber going at a premium around the league at the time, and losing Klefbom, Oilers had to lock down literally their best defencemen at the time. Holland made the signing that most other GMs would have made in the same position.
And also people forget that Nurse took hometown discounts on extensions "TWICE".
As for Jack Campbell, he had a rough go, but he still won games and I don't think he has been given a fair shake.
You give Skinner the reigns even though he had the worst sv(%) out of the two in the same amount of games played at the begining of the year, and turned his game around and his season.
How does anyone know how Campbell would have perform under Knoblauch if he wasn't given a chance.
Why not give the same support to Campbell as we did for Brown, because looked what happened when Brown got his confidence back.
I think we should have been more patient with Campbell but that is my personal opinion.
I don't blame Holland for signing Campbell, he was having some success in Toronto, and wanted to come here. Was considered one of the top goaltenders on the market at the time. Maybe it's time to upgrade our Pro scouting department for goaltenders.
It is unfortunate it didn't work out, I think Campbell has high playoff performer potential. I believe if we had 100% confident Campbell in net In the Florida series. The cup would be in Edmonton now.
But I digress, Holland decisions brought more good for the organization then any other GM minus Slather(Congrats on retirement)
God Bless Holland and wish him the best on his future endeavors. I hope we can continue to bring in HoF caliber GMs like Holland.
We need GMs that are capable to handle the pressure of this market, continue stability, and has history of decisions that turn into success than failure
Thank you, Holland. I for one, have respected every moment you have been here with the Oilers. I am grateful to see a HoF GM do his thing for the Oilers, your the real deal.
We'll find out a lot in a few minutes about everything, and of course people will speculate.
But I think it's pretty damn clear, Holland wanted this Stanley Cup to be the crowning jewel on an already world class legacy. This was what he was grinding for.
And he came up one game short.
That's got to hurt. Holland is as competitive as any player.
What an exceptional GM he's been. Honest, hard working, communicative, and he did everything he said he would do, except win one last game. If this is it for him... I feel nothing but gratitude.
Historic level Mcdavid got us there. There were so many players he should have looked at as buy low candidates: Evan Rodrigues, Mason Marchment, Sam Lafferty were just a couple I had on my radar last couple of years that were buy low candidates
They were buy lows before those contracts. In this league you need to fund value in those kinds of players BEFORE they pop. That’s just the way it goes in a cap league
Respectfully, you have 0 insight into what he looked at or why he didn't look at something.
Getting a player is not like going to the grocery store and picking one up.
Even if a player has no protection, they have preferences, likes, and feelings.
Reading is tough eh?
At what point did I infer that?
There's 0 insight into what or who he looked into. And if you disagree, then pray tell how do you know?
I know but how are we supposed to have insight into an NHL front office? Can’t I as a fan say we didn’t make it to the finals because of the GM but because he has some historical level players which he inherited.
I’m happy that Holland is gone and I hope that we have a new GM that heavily uses analytics to find hidden gems for this team.
You’re exact criticism of Holland was “he should have looked at so many more buy low players”
This guys point is, how did you know he didn’t look at the players you listed? To criticize a guy on something you don’t know if he did or didn’t do something is crazy. He could have looked at them and more and each said No or they wanted more to come to Edmonton.
Okay fair enough. I guess my answer to why I think he didn’t look is because of his track record and fact we never got any of that type of player that panned out.
That’s a fair point, my counter to that was we had very little cap space to get one of those guys. So we brought in players like Janmark, Ryan.
My opinion on that is the guys he brought in also scored and were solid defensively and cheap. He didn’t need the “big name” guys. He found comparable but cheaper options.
We can't. We also can't judge from outside the club looking in. They can use all the metrics and analytics we want but this is still a people business. Panarin is a prime example of that.
I'm just saying we can't talk shit about who the guy didn't get, because this isn't a one way street.
It feels a bit crazy to say that GM’s cannot be evaluated by fans. As an Oilers fan I can 100% assess the GM of my favourite team and collectively all of our opinions matter.
But we can't evaluate him based on shit we don't know. That's the entire point.
Everyone has an opinion. Not everyone opinion is valid. Yours is not. That's an objective fact lol.
I guess that’s where I disagree. I think he could have built a better team during the 5 years he was in charge…in my opinion. I’m allowed to have an opinion guys. Seriously. I do give him credit for Ekholm and Hyman. But I think he missed on Athanasiou, Campbell and Nurse
Every GM could have made a couple of better moves over the last 5 years. No GM has a 100% hit rate. You may also be forgetting 1 crucial detail: a GM can't force a player to sign a contract. He may have gone after some of the guys you wanted, but they might not have wanted to come to Edmonton.
And the context behind some of those "misses" matters. Campbell looks bad now, but at the time, he was the consensus top goalie available, and we needed a goalie desperately. Everyone was saying that if Holland *didn't* go out and get him, that he should be fired. That Nurse contract had to be what it was or he would have walked, and he was seen as a stud #1 defenseman at the time. He's dropped off a bit since, but he's still very good (don't believe the memes over the professionals) and the cap going up quite a bit in the next few years is gonna make that contract look better.
I get that people are frustrated that we didn't win, but the team that Holland built has been very close to winning a cup for 3 years now. I find it silly to criticize that.
Go back and look at the roster he inherited- then subtract our top Dman Klefbom from that roster out of the blue. All things considered a pretty solid job
In the end he’s been a tremendous GM for us. Yeah some blunders were made (Nurse and Campbell deals) but he manages to get the pieces in place to win a cup and was so so so close to doing so.
He gave Nurse 9+ million, Soup 5 million and he hired rookie coaches.
Other than two of the worst deals in history, I think he was adequate but still overrated for the quality of the team.
Nurse, Soup and now Kane deals are looking like a bunch of Nooses.
Thank you for the Hyman and Ekholm deals, and good luck in your next gig.
I think his next gig is retirement
Detroit ?
Holland came from Detroit 5yers ago
Rumour is Chicago
Hawks have denied it
Why would you wanna go to Chicago right now? They're gonna be terrible for 5 years. Unless it's retirement, I'm surprised he wants out of edmonton, especially getting so close to a cup
can’t forget huge nuge extension
Nuge. I love the guy, but damn did he disappoint in the finals
Nuge missed some shots, but I'd say far from disappointing. Dude plays a complete game, every game. Hope he works on is shot timing and accuracy in the off season, but even if he's reached his ceiling there he's still an amazing player.
And he was part of the PK too.
He could not hit the net to save his life on the pp
So true. But some big goals and assists in the earlier series
Don’t forget his back check defensive play. Saved us a few times
I'm happy someone said it because that's what I remember most about his game in the playoffs. That back check was amazing.
>Thank you for the Hyman and Ekholm deals, and good luck in your next gig. Yes, and don't forget to take Soupy with you when you go.
Rico too
Don't forget the coaching change and hiring McDs former agent to take over the reigns.
Don’t forget Kane
In Hollands 5 years as GM: 2020 - 83 points in 71 games. Lost in QR. 2021 - 72 points in 56 games. Lost in 1st round. 2022 - 104 points in 82 games. Lost in 3rd round. 2023 - 109 points in 82 games. Lost in 2nd round. 2024 - 104 points in 82 games. Lost in Finals. Finished 2nd in their division each year. 220-121-32 record. 7th in the league. 30-31 playoff record. 6th most wins in the league. Overall a good GM for the team. He took over a franchise in disarray and improved it each season he was here.
that 30-31 playoff record shouldve been 31-30:(((
Heartbreak
pain
The 2020 and 2021 losses were specifically awful though.
I love that the Chicago series is basically never talked about anymore. Just such an awful and forgettable series.
A loss to one of the worst teams that have made the playoffs in a long long time
That series began my panic response to deflections. It has felt like to me that ever since then, people score tons of deflection goals on us and we score like none
2020 was a weird best of 5 right after a 6 week (I think) stoppage, and right after the team had been a near lottery team for 2 years. 2021 was a disappointing series yes.
It was actually over four months between the end of the regular season and the playoffs that year. Basically a full off-season. Each team got one exhibition game before being thrown into elimination games (except for the four top teams in the league by point percentage). The Oilers weren't a good enough team to win the cup that year but the way the NHL set up those playoffs was mind-bogglingly stupid. The NBA had a way better solution.
5 winning seasons, and in the final year: -Arguably the best line in hockey(RNH-McDavid-Hyman) -A top pairing that’s top 3 in all of the NHL(Ekholm-Bouchard) -2 goals away from a Stanley Cup He didn’t get the job done, but he got as close as you could have asked for
Wait they didn’t finish top of the division 2023-2024? Who did?!
Vancouver
You’re damn right.
He made some good deals and some bad, but most importantly the team got way more competitive under him compare to other GM, so that's very good in my books.
B to C grades on trades and contracts. F on development EDIT: would love to know everyone who is downvoting this, your grades for Holland, and why?
A bit harsh on the player development, Stu is a 3rd rounder, and Vinny is 7th rounder. We are not completely strikeout.
Stu was a 2017 draft pick, Vinny was 2016, both from Chia. Our cupboard for new young talent is pretty dry and everyone that we're hoping on besides Holloway have been Chia draft picks.
To me drafting and development is 2 different category, I don't mind Kenny didn't rush our prospect through the system, thought sometime he waited too long imo (Broberg)
Again, I don't mind that he's not rushing people. But there's no one outside of Holloway and Broberg that's going to step up here and fill a roster stop for us. Chia gave us a lot of value in the later rounds, people like McLeod, Kesselring, Kemp, Rodrigue, even people like John Marino (who I know didnt pan out here but is a legit NHLer) in the 6th round. Not one of the Oilers draft picks save Dylan Holloway has played one game for us.
At the end of the day you need to ask yourself though Do we value having picks/prospects or winning a cup? You don’t get to make improvements without giving up draft capital or moving out someone with value. What else could we have moved instead of a 1st/barrie to get ekholm? We don’t pickup Henrique if we don’t give up a pick it’s not like Anaheim would take Campbell in exchange
I mean, you can do both. It was fine that he traded the 1st rounders for immediate help, but even the late round picks have not panned out. Which is one thing that I give Chia credit to (which I will loathe to do), is that later rounds he had an eye for picking out NHL players. Holland and team do not. EDIT: And that's how you sustain a good team in a cap era, especially now that we're going to be paying a lot for Drai and Connor and you need young cheap talent to fill out the roster and help
New GM posting up there \^\^\^\^ /s
What is untrue about what i said there?
A solid B, he’s good at picking around the edges, Kane was a solid pickup by him and helped a lot in the playoffs 2 years ago, Hyman contract is arguably the best free agent signing ever, Ekholm deal was a home run, Skinner deal was solid for a bridge think it still has 2 years left even Unfair to crucify him over Broberg and Holloway just yet, I think we seen both of those players just make a huge step forward, very curious to see how that carries into next year. Nurse contract is a big fumble as it was even rumored, nurse confirmed, they had a 4 year deal set in place I’m guessing there really wish they held there now. Campbell just never should have happened, was crazy they didn’t just find a 1-2 year option to run skinner as that was always the plan. Development I can agree has been poor but after Holloway we’ve been like pick 20 and later where the success rate is like 30-40 percent
I think B is where I land too with Holland. Not A not C. I don't know why I'm getting crucified for this take lol. The issue when Hyman and Ekholm considered, Campbell and Nurse are going to handcuff this team for a while, with whatever happens to them. That's a huge problem he just left us > Development I can agree has been poor but after Holloway we’ve been like pick 20 and later where the success rate is like 30-40 percent It's funny because Chia was really good at late draft picks, really good. Our cupboard has been bare since he left. It was the only thing he was good for.
Because you said C likely which isn’t true, and the F on drafting, it hasn’t been good but it’s also a little too early to put it over the coals completely. Essentially you’re saying his entire tenure here is an average of a D? He took this team from out of the playoffs to 2 goals away from a cup, it’s definitely not as bad as you say Chiarelli’s drafting is the only reason he still has any associations with NHL front offices
No I said on average B or C. More like a B- He made some moves that made the team better and some that have and will handcuff the team for a while. What grade would you give Holland?
I’d give the Ekholm trade and Hyman signing at least an A lol
Oh for sure, those are Holland's high marks. But he also signed Nurse and Campbell to amazingly awful contracts, and both of those has handcuffed the team. He also signed Nuge to a good contract, but also signed Zack Kassian to a bad contract. He traded for Ekholm, his best trade. He also traded for Duncan Keith, Athanesiou, and Mike Green (his worst trades). So we have to look at the totality of it right?
He also got the team the Stanley Cup Finals where they were 2 goals away from winning it
Uh huh, do you think if Holland looked at the Ceci pair at the start of the season like everyone was telling him to do, and did something about that, we wouldn't be planning a Stanley Cup parade right now? Like yeah the team did well under him, but we can't just say "we made the finals" and call that a grade. That's foolish. Chia won a cup with the Bruins, and he was one of the worst GM's we ever had.
I hate when people bitch about his trades for Athanasiou and Green. He made deals for two guys that would undoubtedly help the team, then Green got hurt and Covid hit and shut it all down. Because of that, the cap stayed flat for three years and suddenly they couldn't afford Athanasiou. Green didn't want to play in the bubble and retired after. Complain all you want about signing a risky goalie or the Nurse deal when they had the team over the Klefbom Barrel, but AA and Green aren't Kenny's fault.
I mean he did trade for them and gave up major assets for them that we didn’t get back. Who else am I gonna blame for that?
Ekholm A++ Hyman and Nuge contracts A++
Where do you grade Nurse and Campbell then?
You can't make a cake out of dirt...... We did not have a very good pipeline before. Trades in a tight cap are never going to look good on their own. Some of the signings he made, like Nurse, were due to the previous guard bridging him more than they should. The money he has made to date is market value. Just the hit hurts alone and will be better in a couple years. If nurse walked we wouldn't have had the two years previous being what they were. This city runs players out, not draws them in. And there is a tax for that....
I think you’re holding a lot of water for our poor poor multi million dollar GM. Chia actually drafted well and landed on players in the later rounds. Holland could not. Trades in a tight cap, everyone in the NHL has the same problem. Yet some GM’s are better at this than Holland. The money that Nurse gets paid is not market value right now btw. Look at dom’s model for that. And Nurse’s overpay also led to Bouchard’s bridge deal which we will have to pay major for that when we could’ve had him cheaper. All of these moves have consequences
Yeah sure we can hate on Holland, like yeah I get it as fans our job is to scrutinize. But he's been one of the better GMs we've had over the past decade.
After chia, everyone looks like a genius.
He literally got us to the cup final once and the west final twice. He’s been above average at worst
I actually personally think he's been really good. Made lots of great trades and signings. A few L's but that's impossible to avoid.
Same. I look back at how a majority of us hated that he fired Woody & co, and now a majority of us are saying the Oil wouldn’t be where they are without Knob & co. Easy to overlook the smart moves and focus on the negative outliers.
Interestingly I remember a lot of us putting that on Jeff Jackson, he seemed to be in the driver's seat for that whole news conference and whatnot. I was a pretty big detractor about the coaching change at the time (my tune has changed). Agree though, easy to forget the good and focus on the bad.
Pretty sure he didn’t fire woody. JJ did for sure
How dare you be so reasonable in your views lol
Totally agree )
Some good moves I agree. Particularly with how he built the depth. But a couple of the Ls have been really big Ls that are hamstringing our franchise.
The only real bag one is Campbell. Nurse is terrible too but you can see how he was backed into a corner on that one.
More like McDavid and Drai dragged us to the west final and finals.
Yes. Our penalty kill with neither of them had NOTHING to do with it. LOL come on people, one player or two players doesn't make a team...
You don't think Drai and McDavid having almost record breaking post seasons in 2022 and 2024 had nothing to do with it?
Sure it did. But it’s not the only reason. It takes a team. With out them we aren’t there. Also true is without our role players we aren’t there either.
Noob here. I know the workings of soccer but not hockey orgs. What does a hockey GM do and how instrumental is he to our wins? I always assumed that the coach does most of that
To roughly equate a hockey team to a typical soccer team: Hockey GM = Director of Football Hockey Head Coach = Manager In a basic sense, the GM is responsible for hiring/firing coaches, signing/trading players, and drafting new players.
McDavid got us to the cup and west final lol
Nope. Does McDavid get San Jose to a cup? Arizona to a cup? I could go on. I take a whole team. This take is tin foil hat shit…..
McDavid is the central piece…. Without him none of that would’ve happened
And without the other pieces we don’t get there either. If McDavid was the only piece of the puzzle he would have 6-7cups by now
This is the correct take
Pretty hard to win a cup when you overpaid 10million bucks on a goalie and defender. McDavid should have had multiple cups by now.
Don't forget Tambellini
I’m still waiting for that bold move MacTavish promised us.
His bold move was leaving (or getting fired)
Knowing MacT, it probably was gonna be trading a mediocre goalie and then immediately acquiring a different mediocre goalie
Chia signed draisaitl’s amazing contract
Which at the time of signing was considered a bit of an overpay compared to Pasta. Chia gets only the barest of credit for that because you can't even argue that he thought Drai was gonna turn out the way he did when he considered shopping Drai and Nurse for PK
It aged like fine wine but I don’t disagree
2 more years than Pasta for slightly more money. People criticizing that deal were dumb and proven so over time.
At the time of the signing, it was on par of where he should be. Nobody could ever predict he would break out into a top 5 player in the world, making the contract one of the best value in the league.
Wasn’t crazy to predict he would get better though and he was already basically PPG and a bit above that in the playoffs.
I’d say since the late 90s. He’s pretty under appreciated from oiler fans. But he helped build a rockstar team
Everybody out there still has "yeah but he should have won 2 cups with the Oilers" locked and loaded
He’s been excellent. The current deals that people complain about (Nurse and Soup) were during really skewed seasons for defensemen and goalies respectively. His trade deadline deals the last couple of years have been really good.
He’s left the Oilers with a grim outlook in the next few seasons with no prospect pool and an aging roster
That’s the life of a contending team. Florida traded their first round picks for like three drafts and look where they are now.
Well this could be McDavid’s best chance at winning a cup for a few years. Florida at least has a more well rounded roster than the Oilers. They could’ve won the cup if McDavid and Draisaitl didn’t play 60 minutes in 2 consecutive playoff games
That’s because they’re going all in.
And yet still not fixing the team’s weaknesses such as a top 6 winger for Drai and a replacement for Ceci
Yeah was everyone expecting him to be absolutely perfect and make no mistakes? Yes, Campbell was a shit show and Nurse was a big overpay and that is definitely hurting the team. But he’s also made some awesome trades and signings like Ekholm, Kane, and Hyman and has proven that this team can go all the way
Agreed. If he's slowing down I can understand the need for a transition, but Holland's body of work seems solid. The only step that seemed like an error at the time was the Nurse overpay, but it's hard to say what his other options would have been (after all our years trying to plug holes on D you certainly couldn't let Nurse go and create another one).
Was there a lower bar in pro sports lmao
Lowe, MacTavish, and Chiarelli are not exactly a tough act to follow...
Don't leave Tambellini out of this.
lmao I forgot about the Tambellini Era.
Is there a worse stretch of GMs in nhl history
Lowe had some issues (killing the Comrie for Perry and a 1st trade over Comrie’s bonus) but his time as GM was actually pretty decent considering our money issues pre-cap/Katz and included the ‘06 run. Tambo was where things really went off the rails. But on the flip side, everything Lowe related since he left the GM job has been a gongshow *at best*.
Ya definitely, he's been maybe the best (behind Sather, but that was a different era)! He came in and did exactly what he said he was going to do. He told us what it would look like, and it happened exactly as he said. It's not his fault we didn't score two more goals. It's not a fans job to scrutinize. Ain't no fan getting paid to do anything, and our role as fans is just to care. Caring doesn't mean being little whiney bitches like many of the dunce caps in this sub.
This guy took an absolute dumpster fire from Chiarelli and almost immediately gave us deep playoff runs. Hall of Fame GM.
I guess we have different understandings of the meaning of "immediately".
I’m gonna miss him. And I’m afraid that we will collectively miss him a year or two after he’s gone. I hope I’m wrong.
Depends who we get. Originally I was *not* happy with Jeff Jackson for the whole Knob/Woody situation but clearly I'm the one who is a fucking idiot, not Jeff Jackson. And I believe Jackson has a role in hiring the GM (there have been some rumors he might just also take on GM responsibilities) and tbh I think I'd be ok with that. I clearly misjudged Jackson earlier this season.
Really? I thought Jeff Jackson was the guy. I’m worried about a first timer taking over a must win situation. Knobby obviously did great
I now also think Jackson is the guy but at the time it *really* seemed like it was just an attempt to make McDavid happy by bringing in characters from his past. Jackson is his agent. Brown played with him in Erie. Knob coached him in Erie. Even Foegele has the Erie connection (although he's been here a while now). Just felt like appeasement moves rather than actually building the team stronger. Clearly that sentiment was wrong, but it was how I (and many others) felt earlier this season.
Having McDavids agent as GM is…. Interesting. Has that ever happened before? I can’t think of another GM that was actively a player agent.
To be fair he's not our GM, he's the CEO of Hockey Operations. Which I believe is technically above the GM. And no, I'm not sure this situation has occurred before, where a player agent was also an active member of hockey management at the club his player is playing for. On one hand it seems potentially problematic but I dunno, after the success this season (even if no cup) it's hard to argue. I'm sure it'll be scrutinized if things go downhill moving forward.
This year is still tied to Ken Holland so the jury is out. I can definitely see a lot of problems arise from that and I’m kinda hoping he brings someone in. We need a home run this off season
Sounds like JJ is only interim GM. I’m glad. I’m happy to have him around the organization but we need a top flight GM for three next couple of years
I would like someone who is a bit younger though
I'm 32, I'll volunteer as a tribute.
You're hired, don't sign ceci to a long extension please
Deal.
Thanks for making us contenders. Lost to the cup winners 3 years in a row now. Wish we could of got it done with him. Hope we are able to keep what he has built for a long time.
Him building a team that was one goal shy in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup shows he did a good job overall. Not perfect but very good. That, and he made the franchise as a whole respectable. Hopefully JJ can take us to the next level. Good luck Kenny
Not surprising he is leaving, it was much expected. He did pretty well but the Nurse contract still disturbs me.
Despite the hate for him, he did what he said he came here to do. In his[ initial presser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrpNg8qow_U) (05/07/2019) he said he "wants playoffs in 2019-20.... and hopefully competing for the cup in 5 years.". We've been playoffs every year since 19/20 and we were 2 goals from winning the cup this year. Hyman and Ekholm are two massive moves that really solidified our team. Re-signing Nuge. I still think Kane was a good pickup. On the Nurse overpayment, yeah it fuckin sucks but that's more on Nurse in my opinion, he should've taken a "discount". We lost both Klef and Larsson and Jones just signed for 9m. If we let Nurse walk our dcore was Kris Russell, Tyson Barrie, Ethan Bear, Dmitry Kulikov. Campbell was a big fuckup yeah, but I don't think the one fuckup makes his whole tenure as bad as people act like it was. It was one game difference from hoisting the cup with the roster he constructed. I think he did good.
People criticize the Nurse contract and Campbell signings, and rightly so, but I think every GM in the league has a couple of contracts they regret. Weighing his mistakes against what he built, I think he did well. The change from what he took over to where he leaves is massive.
I don’t recall GMs like Zito and Sakic signing bad contracts on their roster, especially bad contracts on the magnitude of Nurse and Campbell
Then let’s point out Holland’s good outweighs the bad then.
Good: Nuge contract, Hyman contract, Ekholm trade, Foegele trade, getting out of Lucic contract, taking a risk on Kane Bad: Nurse contract, Campbell contract, poor prospect pool and draft selection, Kassian contract, passing on Wallstedt, lack of top 6 winger and top 4 D
Nurse and Campbell might be the two worst contracts in the league. Having them both dragging down this team just shows you how good McJesus actually is. If you look at what he did to Detroit as well he might be the worst GM of the salary cap era.
One of the better GMs we've had, Ekholm will go down as one of the biggest banger trades in franchise history
The buyout window has started and Campbell still isn't bought out. Have a feeling JJ is cookin' Edit: JJ media avail at 11:30 am MT on Oilers+
It was pretty much expected that Jeff Jackson would be stepping in anyways
Pretty successful 5 year run by Holland here. He made more good moves than bad and transformed the team into perennial contender. More importantly, brought stability, trust, and respect to the org. Before Holland, there was no org plan, players and staff always looking over their shoulders because they could get fired/traded randomly. The owner would overrule management because of unqualified voices in his ears. Now the Oilers are considered a respectable org run by management with minimal outsider influences and players want to play here again. Best of luck to Holland wherever he goes next.
I honestly give Holland an A- for his tenure. Look and what he inherited from Chia and look what he did Campbell didn’t work out but that’s really the only major blunder I can think of. The Kassian signing wasn’t super great but the Lucic/Neal move was a win-win Hyman is the best contract in the NHL Barrie was great and turned into Ekholm which was even better Keith was a great bring on Woody was a fantastic coach till he dug his heels in on Manson The drafting was eh but Holland has always been the type of GM to draft and overcook He turned Chia’s garbage into a 5-year playoff streak and a Cup contender team
He had some misses but also had some big hits and got us further than anyone else in the past 18 years. Thank you Ken.
I was skeptical at the time he was hired, but I think we can absolutely say he did a good to great job here. Leaving the team in a significantly better position than when he found it, which is a hell of a lot more than you can say about the guy before him.
Loved Holland, sure I would’ve paid Nurse 8x8.25 at the time but y’all are so bitter. Campbell was the one signing I harshly disagreed with even at the time. Broberg, Holloway, Hyman, Ekholm, Kane, Foegele, Brown, Henrique, Perry, Janmark, Kulak, all his doing. Not to mention all the trades he didn’t make. Best GM we’ve had my entire Oilers watching life and it is not even close. Be grateful doomers!
This fucking fanbase is insufferable. People in here saying we should have already won multiple cups and not doing so is a failure. No wonder /r/hockey hates us.
For real, plus I’m seeing a lot of people judging a GM for one bad decision and ignoring the multiple fantastic ones that were made.
It’s the people in r/hockey saying the Oilers should’ve won at least a cup with McDavid and Draisaitl for 9 years
There are plenty in here too. The expectations people have in sports is mind-boggling. If results in sports were guaranteed, no one would watch.
I just really hope our management doesn't fall into the trap of getting a guy with "stanley cup experience" as the next GM. we don't need a guy who solved the formula to win a cup ten years ago, we just need a guy who knows how to consistently add value to our team with roster moves in 2024.
Should’ve hired Zito and maybe the Oilers have a cup now
Best GM this team has had in 25 years. Best of luck Kennie!!
Holland turned Chiarelli's shit into something to be proud of
His first few years were rough (Nurse contract, several other rough contracts/trades). His last 1-2 years he's brought in some additional help (Brad Holland, Jeff Jackson, new analytics team, new Pro Scouts, a sports psychologist finally) and the organization has modernized quite a bit. It's shown on the ice too. Overall, glad he's gone, and I think he's leaving the organization in decent hands
he's leaving it in much better shape than when he joined it and that's about all I'd hope for honestly. I just hope our next GM has a nice background.
Sign of a good leader. Leaving it better than they got it
Kinda wish we had a GM going into free agency and stuff.
I think he came in to an incredibly difficult position with very little room for error. Almost all his moves were good to great in hindsight, but the bad ones were exceptionally bad. In the end he executed his 5-year plan as he drew it up, which is better than most GMs. Thank you Dutch. Once an Oiler always an Oiler.
One thing I will say about Holland is that I think he earned a lot of trust and loyalty from the players. He was big one communication with them and getting feedback from them. I think it appeared he was honest with them so players were on good terms with him. I think it helped bring in players or keep them here. I also hope if he leaves it’s to retire and on good terms with the team. Would love him to stay in some capacity to help advise. My other concern is his son Brad may leave if Holland doesn’t retire and goes elsewhere. How badly that may affect the team dynamics moving forward as well. I really like Holland. I am also a Wings fan and liked him there despite what a lot of wings fans say as I know the owner had him go a direction at the tail end that he wasn’t planning on doing. Personally I wish Holland would have stayed on as GM for another year. He made mistakes, he owns up to them. But he pretty much was honest with fans when he got here and accomplished everything he promised, with one goal away from the cup. And for that I am forever grateful.
So who handles all the UFA and extensions in Ken’s absence?
Who’s the new GM then? Someone that’ll take the Oilers to a cup win.
To people crapping on Holland. Would you seriously take Lowe (who couldn’t draft even in 2003) or Chiarelli (who botched trades) over him? He is an upgrade plus he gave us deep playoff runs.
Completely destroys their cap space for the upcoming season and leaves lol
Woooooooo!
As an outsider’s perspective (Wings fan), Holland’s Edmonton tenure was a net positive on the organization. And I’m not speaking from bias, as I never followed any of our cup wins and I mostly saw Holland ruin our organization
Who's replacing Holland?
The Little Hobo theme intensifies…
Holland gets a lot of hate. He made some bad deals... but the Holland era has been the best time to be an Oilers fan since the Sather era. The man came into year 4 of McDavid, when the team was actively floundering and getting worse year over year, and _never missed the post-season_. The Oilers won the same number of playoff rounds under Ken Holland as between 1992 and 2019. Thank you Ken Holland turning this organisation around.
If if weren't for Klefbom being so unlucky, Oilers would have a cup already and a lower salary for Nurse.
I think he is completely underappreciated, I do not believe any other GM in the league would have been able to get where the Oilers are now from the past 5 years. Where every past GM during the Dod, seemed to dig the hole deeper, Holland came in (willingly) on the hardest difficulty and scenario for a GM, and using every trick in the book, helped them climb out of the hole, and made the Oilers a contender with what was left to him from prior GMs. I for one have been very grateful for Holland as our GM, he is literally been one of best GMs we had in decades based on results. Hands down. He seemed to work well with Jackson, and I personally would have kept him on for one more year, so he can finish what he started. I know he did what he said when he got here, and that was to make the Oilers a contender. But I wanted to see him win the cup with the team he helped build to get to this point. He brought in the type of players that worked well with the core and brought stability to the team. Some arguments that are used to downplay and belittle his achievements are petty. The Nurse contract is what it is, at the time of the signing, Nurse just had a career year, and with no sign of any reinforcements coming from FA or the pipeline. And defencemen of similar caliber going at a premium around the league at the time, and losing Klefbom, Oilers had to lock down literally their best defencemen at the time. Holland made the signing that most other GMs would have made in the same position. And also people forget that Nurse took hometown discounts on extensions "TWICE". As for Jack Campbell, he had a rough go, but he still won games and I don't think he has been given a fair shake. You give Skinner the reigns even though he had the worst sv(%) out of the two in the same amount of games played at the begining of the year, and turned his game around and his season. How does anyone know how Campbell would have perform under Knoblauch if he wasn't given a chance. Why not give the same support to Campbell as we did for Brown, because looked what happened when Brown got his confidence back. I think we should have been more patient with Campbell but that is my personal opinion. I don't blame Holland for signing Campbell, he was having some success in Toronto, and wanted to come here. Was considered one of the top goaltenders on the market at the time. Maybe it's time to upgrade our Pro scouting department for goaltenders. It is unfortunate it didn't work out, I think Campbell has high playoff performer potential. I believe if we had 100% confident Campbell in net In the Florida series. The cup would be in Edmonton now. But I digress, Holland decisions brought more good for the organization then any other GM minus Slather(Congrats on retirement) God Bless Holland and wish him the best on his future endeavors. I hope we can continue to bring in HoF caliber GMs like Holland. We need GMs that are capable to handle the pressure of this market, continue stability, and has history of decisions that turn into success than failure Thank you, Holland. I for one, have respected every moment you have been here with the Oilers. I am grateful to see a HoF GM do his thing for the Oilers, your the real deal.
We'll find out a lot in a few minutes about everything, and of course people will speculate. But I think it's pretty damn clear, Holland wanted this Stanley Cup to be the crowning jewel on an already world class legacy. This was what he was grinding for. And he came up one game short. That's got to hurt. Holland is as competitive as any player. What an exceptional GM he's been. Honest, hard working, communicative, and he did everything he said he would do, except win one last game. If this is it for him... I feel nothing but gratitude.
It's a shame he couldn't sign us up for some long term contracts that will bite us in the ass for the next 5-8 years before he left.
First finals in how many years? I get he’s not the perfect GM but he got you to the finish line
Historic level Mcdavid got us there. There were so many players he should have looked at as buy low candidates: Evan Rodrigues, Mason Marchment, Sam Lafferty were just a couple I had on my radar last couple of years that were buy low candidates
How did the stars buy low on Marchment? Guy is making bank
I wanted him when he was on the Panthers
Marchment makes 4.5 mil and Rodrigues makes 3 mil, how are they buy low candidates? And Sam Lafferty sucks Your radar sucks
They were buy lows before those contracts. In this league you need to fund value in those kinds of players BEFORE they pop. That’s just the way it goes in a cap league
So you were calling for Mason Marchment to be signed in 2021 before his breakout 2021-22 season? Come on
Honestly I was. I know it sounds stupid but I was
Fair enough then
Respectfully, you have 0 insight into what he looked at or why he didn't look at something. Getting a player is not like going to the grocery store and picking one up. Even if a player has no protection, they have preferences, likes, and feelings.
Okay you guys are right… Holland did an amazing job as GM of the Oilers
Reading is tough eh? At what point did I infer that? There's 0 insight into what or who he looked into. And if you disagree, then pray tell how do you know?
I know but how are we supposed to have insight into an NHL front office? Can’t I as a fan say we didn’t make it to the finals because of the GM but because he has some historical level players which he inherited. I’m happy that Holland is gone and I hope that we have a new GM that heavily uses analytics to find hidden gems for this team.
You’re exact criticism of Holland was “he should have looked at so many more buy low players” This guys point is, how did you know he didn’t look at the players you listed? To criticize a guy on something you don’t know if he did or didn’t do something is crazy. He could have looked at them and more and each said No or they wanted more to come to Edmonton.
Okay fair enough. I guess my answer to why I think he didn’t look is because of his track record and fact we never got any of that type of player that panned out.
That’s a fair point, my counter to that was we had very little cap space to get one of those guys. So we brought in players like Janmark, Ryan. My opinion on that is the guys he brought in also scored and were solid defensively and cheap. He didn’t need the “big name” guys. He found comparable but cheaper options.
We can't. We also can't judge from outside the club looking in. They can use all the metrics and analytics we want but this is still a people business. Panarin is a prime example of that. I'm just saying we can't talk shit about who the guy didn't get, because this isn't a one way street.
It feels a bit crazy to say that GM’s cannot be evaluated by fans. As an Oilers fan I can 100% assess the GM of my favourite team and collectively all of our opinions matter.
But we can't evaluate him based on shit we don't know. That's the entire point. Everyone has an opinion. Not everyone opinion is valid. Yours is not. That's an objective fact lol.
The whole team got us there. Everybody contributed. Holland put a great team around McDavid
I guess that’s where I disagree. I think he could have built a better team during the 5 years he was in charge…in my opinion. I’m allowed to have an opinion guys. Seriously. I do give him credit for Ekholm and Hyman. But I think he missed on Athanasiou, Campbell and Nurse
Every GM could have made a couple of better moves over the last 5 years. No GM has a 100% hit rate. You may also be forgetting 1 crucial detail: a GM can't force a player to sign a contract. He may have gone after some of the guys you wanted, but they might not have wanted to come to Edmonton. And the context behind some of those "misses" matters. Campbell looks bad now, but at the time, he was the consensus top goalie available, and we needed a goalie desperately. Everyone was saying that if Holland *didn't* go out and get him, that he should be fired. That Nurse contract had to be what it was or he would have walked, and he was seen as a stud #1 defenseman at the time. He's dropped off a bit since, but he's still very good (don't believe the memes over the professionals) and the cap going up quite a bit in the next few years is gonna make that contract look better. I get that people are frustrated that we didn't win, but the team that Holland built has been very close to winning a cup for 3 years now. I find it silly to criticize that.
I for one, respect his tenure here in Edmonton
Go back and look at the roster he inherited- then subtract our top Dman Klefbom from that roster out of the blue. All things considered a pretty solid job
In the end he’s been a tremendous GM for us. Yeah some blunders were made (Nurse and Campbell deals) but he manages to get the pieces in place to win a cup and was so so so close to doing so.
He gave Nurse 9+ million, Soup 5 million and he hired rookie coaches. Other than two of the worst deals in history, I think he was adequate but still overrated for the quality of the team. Nurse, Soup and now Kane deals are looking like a bunch of Nooses.
Kane ? You’re fkn slow