This is the strongest theory to me and aligns with From's general themes exploring birthing and motherhood (see Bloodborne, obviously, but also the beginning of DS2 and the pathway to the chaos boss in DS1)
The fact that the gap there is gold while the rest of the sky is purple-ish might be a representation of how gold/erdree/Marika's order was born. And all these corpses were sacrificed for that birth to happen, which is a process kept happening later in the Erdtree era (catacombs and the roots getting fed by corpses so that new life will be born from the Erdtree)
I see the thing she’s reaching into as an eye. The eye of a serpent to be specific. It’s at a weird angle but the top lid is the one close to the bottom of the shot. To me it looks clearly like a pale white snake that’s eye has rolled back in its socket. So she’s reaching into the eye of a serpent and pulling out its grace.
My crack theory is it’s the god the dragons followed, that god very well might have been a giant serpent, and the god of the crucible. Snakes and dragons are always related in most myths so it wouldn’t be weird.
That's what I've been thinking too. Seems like sticking a hand into an eye socket. Would track with the "stealing grace from the eyes" that happens elsewhere
- Marika is brandishing the threads of gold that she will form into a new Elden Ring
- This could be the sealing of Destined Death as the Golden Order is formed
- She stands in a doorway linking a land of Gold and a Land of Shadow. I suspect this is a gateway between the Erdtree and Shadow Tree (later sealed)
I assumed it was the crucible and probably whoever was the empyrean of that age, like how the Elden ring exists within Radagon/Marika’s “corpse” at the end of the game
Fairly certain that’s the serpents amnion.
Given the very evident connection to Rykard in the opening segment of the trailer as well as the “birthing/rebirthing” imagery.
And the fact that Marika is wearing a serpent bangle.
They use Golden Order when referencing Messmer on one of the ads for the expansion, so I think you have good points.
I think a war because one side sealed Destined Death seems pretty reasonable.
That's the Erdtree, made out of corpses. Miquella saw how corrupted the Golden Order is, and his origin. That's why he divested himself of literally EVERYTHING.
And yes, I think St Trina is the personification of Miquella's fate as an Empyrean.
>That's the Erdtree, made out of corpses.
I am not disagreeing -- it aligns with my general theory that in this world, the "holy" trees are grown from people -- but am having a hard time just visually making sense of this. Is the camera inside or outside the Erdtree?
It looks like it’s not just physically inside or outside but that the doorway is somehow dividing two worlds, you know? Like you say there is a purple skybox on one side and a bright one on the other, and they say when gold was born so was shadow.
Like, this is the physical inversion of the tree in the lands of shadow? The hidden true form of the erdtree?
The Crucible is the primordial form of the Erdtree and is where all life blends together.
I think what we see is the Crucible and the mass of flesh is this blending of life. Marika seemingly took something with the power she would then use to create the Erdtree of Gold and the Shadow tree.
I think this was how the Erdtree was born, Marika wanted to have her Golden Order be viewed as a just and morally-charged order or something, so she casted an illusion by putting the "veil" to hide the truth from the inhabitants of the Lands Between. And with the passage of time, the "remnants" of the origin of the Erdtree was erased from the history and well, in the physical world, literally.
It looks like two pillars of flesh in parallel to each other, it doesn't look particularly similar to the Erdtree beyond being a (two) tall structure/s. The fact that you can see a bright light behind the pilars in contrast to the dark shadow cast by the rest of the scene seem to imply that this maybe the point that connects TLB with The lands of shadow. It also may be that it represents the starting point from wich Marika separated the land since this is the "beggining" as told by Miquella.
Could be, but I think the underground is closer to an "underworld" in the context of ER. Is not only the grave of ancient civilizations but also holds the only two rivers in the land wich is reminiscent of the River Styx or just the rivers of Hades in Greek Mythology, and ER as its own ferryman of death similar to Charon in the form of the Tibia Mariners.
I think The lands of Shadow could be seen more as a massive prison like the Tartarus since it's by imprisoning the titans including his own father that Zeus with his siblings initiated their new age wich seems to fit a lot with the implications of the trailer.
Technically, it's both. The side we're seeing is the Shadow side, and if you walked through that opening you would be on the Gold side. Two trees existing in the "same" space at the same time, much like the Radagon/Marika duality.
Starting to get some stark, IRL parallel vibes from SotE. A world order that on the surface appears golden and perfect, but is in fact built atop a mountain of corpses and oceans of innocent blood.
For sure, but whereas before it was largely confined to subtext and the unraveling mystery of the main narrative (ie. why did Marika shatter the ER), now it’s being elevated to all caps, double bold text.
I also like how the base game emphasized the shattering as misdirection from the real meat and potatoes of the story, which to this point was buried both literally and figuratively.
I think it’s possible that in the attempt to bring about his order and the eclipse he might accidentally bring about an opposing prophecy, and that’s something GRRM-ish. I’ve spoken about ASIOAF’s influence on Elden Ring, and the characters in the book series often remark about how unreliable the nature of prophecy really is.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Miyazaki brings this theme into the games as an impetus to explore Miquella’s fall and death.
I'm still in the camp that believes miquella is going to turn out evil. I think he's going there for his own gain. The whole trailer here is narrated by a tarnished who is following him so she is biased towards him. This is a massive contrast to the last trailer describing his ability to "shrive" the hearts of men terrifying.
Miquella used his own blood to grow his Haligtree.
Marika took the dead bodies of fallen soldiers, possibly along with her followers and used their blood to build the Erdtree.
Perhaps the tree we see in the Shadowlands was grown from Messmers impaled victims that we see in the trailer?
The idea of sacrificing others to achieve Godhood would definitely fall in line with Griffith, the Godhand, and the countless Berserk references throughout the Soulsborne games
Yeah, pretty much, to the extent that anything here is working on parallels in that fashion.
On a side note--I see the sentiment a lot that "[insert soulsborne thing here] is just a Berserk reference" and I think it's missing the point a smidge. Miyazaki and his team constantly referencing Berserk is a thing that is happening, for sure--but that doesn't mean that they are drawing direct analogues to Berserk characters with the narrative intent being that Soulsborne characters are meant to be read as alternate versions of Berserk characters. It means they are taking inspiration from Berserk while creating their own unique work. The distinction is minute, sure, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that it exists.
Elsewise, especially when digesting lore and working to theorycraft, you can get a bit lost in the weeds comparing apples to oranges. They're in the same overall category (fruit) but their innards have their own unique structures.
Yeah I was being facetious and it didn’t come across very well. Sort of trying to making fun of the clickbaity lore YouTubers who get way too into the parallel and read it as 1:1.
You expressed that very elegantly, though! Thanks for that.
You make good points, but even with that aside, it's amazing how much people don't really think it through.
When the text expressing Melania's view that "he has the allure of a god", it's weirdly rare for people to take note of who would be the reference point to Malenia for what the "allure of a god" looks like exactly.
I've tended to think that Marika has a decent level of similarity to Griffith, but more because both stories are inheriting the same themes than because GRRM was thinking of Griffith when he made the initial draft of who Marika was going to be.
Yep, my assessment is sourced from similar observations!
I think it's a shame really--a lot of times due to forces outside individual control (eg how education as a whole and the arts in particular have been gutted), a lot of people either don't have or don't know or don't care to learn how to use the literary analysis toolbox. So that act of taking connections into consideration like you detailed, that further amount of thinking isn't practiced with such regularity any more, and people are less able to articulate what they do see when they see it.
Also, yeah, exactly so--the themes and subject matter are in the same ballpark, so essentially what we see is Miyazaki, GRRM, and Miura all playing with the same boxes but building them up differently.
The figure is definitely Marika—I wasn't completely certain at first, but they're wearing the same bands around their arms and wrists that Marika does. That said, does anybody else think the figure looks a bit more masculine than Marika usually does? When comparing her appearance in the Radagon boss cutscene to here, the figure in the trailer seems to have a less pronounced waistline and no visible breasts. Admittedly, there could be many reasons for this—ranging from misleading camera angles to my mind playing tricks on me—but it's still interesting to note.
Perhaps this is another example of Radagon & Marika weirdness. People have been speculating for years that they're a Rebis (a divine hermaphrodite with both male and female qualities) and I've long since thought that they were once being who split and then later rejoined (given that such a thing would line up nicely with the principles of fundamentalism, which Radagon has a lot of associations with). Following that theory, perhaps this is the body they had when they were a single being?
Or I'm an idiot and the figure is obviously female & I'm just not seeing it. Food for thought.
Some other observations:
- I've seen some people speculate that this is the Crucible, which could definitely fit. It is, after all, the place where all life once blended together, and those bodies sure do look blended together.
- The thing Marika is holding up looks very much like golden hair. Perhaps taken from an offspring of Marika and whoever it is that got seduced?
- The thing she pulls the maybe-hair out of looks like the stitched skin of the Godskins, which others here have noted. All things considered, I'm reminded of the Serpent's Amnion. Could this be the site of a birthing ritual much like the one that produced Rya?
- Something else that's interesting to note about the maybe-hair: it's virtually identical to what's coming off of Marika's hammer in [this](https://youtu.be/e8wHJsFEKAM?si=twfPr-4AyXtV9Pa7&t=52) trailer. Given what the hammer was used for, this may well be the birth of the Elden Ring.
I agree on the gender part - that’s definitely a more masculine physique. Perhaps Radagon was blonde before, then his hair became red after the events of this DLC
I made a similar post wondering about this as well. Could you elaborate on:
>they're wearing the same bands around their arms and wrists that Marika does
I tried to find every canon image of Marika that I could and couldn't find any bracelets. I could definitely be missing something in front of my face, though.
You can see them clearly in Elden Ring's opening cutscene. [Here](https://youtu.be/_uydEN9Fu7M?si=WgQJlBjoLE4vIktm&t=47) is a video set to the right spot.
In your defense, it's far from the most notable thing about that cutscene. It's easy to forget everything else that's happening once the narrator starts dramatically listing off names.
She seduced the GEQ and betrayed her, stole the rune of death and banished it, became the Goddess. The thing she is pulling something from seems like a stiched skin, that lines up well with the Godskin
Love this because it implies that sending/becoming Radagon off to marry Rennala is iust Marika going Ol’ Reliable when she couldn’t just kill her army lol
“My queen, we cannot overcome their forces.”
“Have you tried being sexy at them?”
YES YES YES. The old man in the Painting is actually Marika. The women is the GEQ. Messmer is their son.
Marika had 3 aspects to her. The Father who "birthed" TLB is the old man we see in the painting and everywhere in the lands between holding the golden flower, The Son Who is Radagon and upholds the New Order and its tenets, and the Holy Spirit which is Marika who is a symbol of faith and is the driving force in the shadows(Marika's Mischief;veils;etc.) for everything that transpires..
She divested herself of the Father once she succeed in creating the order as it was no longer needed. But the visage remains in statue form throughout the lands between.
Omg this is fucking salient bro.
Salient. There are a lot of tidbits that call back to elements of Christianity
Most obvious is the crucifixition of marika in the tree
The golden order representing medieval Catholicism.
A little tidbit that I think is interesting about this interpretation is that it recontextualizes characters like Goldmask as forces of a kind of Protestantism.
His desire to cast away the Two Fingers and recognize some of the most holy figures of the Golden Order as fallible or insufficient to fully appreciate the faith is a very Protestant urge.
100%. The mountains of skinned corpses here seems like the result of a Godskin hunt. The flesh Marika pulls the golden threads from very much looks like skin that has been removed. The gloam sky!!! Marika either was the GEQ or she used the GEQ to do her dirty work then betrayed her in this moment.
The absence of Maliketh and the Godskin make me think this has nothing to do with either GEQ or even Destined Death. This seems to have happened way before that.
As Miyazaki said we're exploring Marika's creation of the Erdtree so that scene is around the end of the Crucible era. I don't know why people are talking about GEQ, Radagon and DD stuff. Maliketh probably didn't even exist at that point.
This is always speculative of course. But I feel like this is the base of the erdtree where we enter to fight Radagon. And Marika challenged the previous order(crucible/gloameyed queen), and after killing her Marika brandished the new rune shape (same way as we do when we defeat Marika.
And for the corpses. That is the shape that the erdtree had before Marika and she made it gold (the same way as when we finished the game and use a new rune, the tree gets a different shape and color.
So, Marika "stepped into" the Land of Shadow (coming from wherever the Numen come from), committed genocide against the inhabitants at the behest of the Greater Will, and used the corpses to create the Erdtree and by extension the Golden Order. She then hid her crimes under a veil so that those in the Lands Between would be none the wiser. Messmer is a legacy of these acts. It seems Miquella is intent to divest himself of everything connected to his mother.
She's under the thumb of the Elden Beast; I don't believe the Greater Will is an actual sentient thing and I consider it more just evolution towards order. The Elden Beast, however, is described as the incarnation of order, and we know its sentient. Thus, I propose that the Elden Beast is basically a God-Queen in its own way, possessing Empyreans.
the elden beast was sent to the lands between by the greater will. also, every other outer god has palpable influence (mohg stabs directly into the formless mother with his nihil attack, the god of rot causes malenia to be inflicted with scarlet rot and bloom), i can’t see the greater will being different
You're misinformed the GW doesn't control Marika. The God bearing the Ring can make the rules of Order.
The Crucible was created by the Greater Will when it sent the elden beast to start the primordial life in the Lands Between to begin with.
Marika just kicked off her rule with a genocide and then subsequent wars of supremacy cutting out the Omenkind and whatever else she deemed lesser.
"Heresy is not native to the world, all things can be conjoined" -Turtle Pope.
From Ordovis' Greatsword:
>This sword is imbued with an ancient holy essence.
Its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself.
This description has always made me think of blood having to do with the crucible.
This structure does look like a huge pile of bloody corpses all blended together. Could this be the birthplace of creatures that hold humanoid and animal characteristics?
From beast blood
>Fresh beast **blood**, glinting with **gold**.
>Found by **hunting** carnivorous **beasts**.
>This glimmering blood never **rots** or **decays**.
Certainly seems that way. Marika either literally or figuratively has made her "gold/erdtree" through "blood/the crucible".
I thinks its Marika closing a huge gate made out of corpses created as a seal between Shadowlands and current lands between, she's pulling the strings of gold to close the gate and leave her sins behind her in the land of shadow.
I think it is showing a separation, through which gold and shadow are born.
In essence, this must therefore be the crucible, if the words align with the visuals. The crucible is a merging of all life afterall.
This is the moment the crucible was broken into the two worlds. One the land's between, the other the shadow of the erd.
This is what happens when those dam farum azula immigrants from the future(or ..past or..nontime?) come and try to take all our lands between jobs. We make the man mound!! dey terk er jerbs!!
"Gold" and "Shadow" are both capitalized in the captions for the video, so we might have the parallel or 'Shadow' of Golden Grace shown as a physical concept. And we're going to find out what Golden Grace really means, the historical precedence of it for Marika that has defined an age.
Oh. So Marika is Nimue, and Merlin is trapped in the oak tree. Marika clutches the strands of grace, offering them up in the shape of a chalice like Circe by Waterhouse. It's that dusty old story of Eve in the Garden, reiterated again
An old betrayal by a woman, a seduction, a snake man and a tree. A woman tasting of the divinity when she's been advised not to as something that resembles earth and bones combined (Adam) sleeps, and a serpent wages a war. Oh yeah, we've got pseudoAbrahamic mythological storytelling happening
The corpses of the gateway resemble the final evolution of Shin Godzilla when it was finally killed. That final evolution was the means to continue life through that "power" passing into "human" hands. Could be that this structure is alive, and functions similarly to mimicry found in nature. By separating and distinguishing the light from shadow, Marika shunted the previous "god" into... basically the subconscious. It's some gnostic shit
So if Miquella knows this story and the "truth" of divinity, "sacrifices" at least one aspect of himself and is tied to sleep - a metaphor for death and resurrection - and his domain is the realm of the unconscious (the *subconscious*), could be he was trying to regrow the original tree the whole time. The original god of nature, which encompasses the "spiritual" and the physical, the Tree of Life itself. Or the allegorical ER version of it. Returning all things to a time of more peace. But also, ignorance and lack of freewill. It also tends to lead to the burning of maidens as witches eventually
Basically there's a lot that could be going on there lol
*edit because autocorrect thinks Circle is a person
So much to unpack. Who is this? Where are they? What is that thing they are reaching into? What was the seduction? What was the betrayal?
I can already feel the posts coming about the identity of this person. The way the trailer is cut and the snake bracelets seem to suggest Messmer? In this theory, the "betrayal" is felt around TLB which is why snakes are so reviled. The walls (?) also share a resemblance to the blasphemous blade suggesting a parallel between Rykard and this image.
But this was "an affair from which Gold arose" suggesting this is one of the fundamental history-defining events of this world. The individuals' attire also sort of suggests they're Marika or Radagon.
Yea the bracelet, the hair, we know she became a God here, the piles of corpses.
Idk how anyone can not think this is marika...
Looks like she grabs something from inside godskin swaddling cloth, has the same golden flows from her hammer in OG ER trailer.
This is the last moments before whatever act she did to become GOD.
I dont think it has anything to do with the god skins, the cloth she grabs from looks more like a shirt with buttons rather than a swaddling cloth, i think shes simply grabbing life force or something out of a random corpse, hense why theres so little gold coming out
I mean she is walking up flayed skinned corpses and that thing she reaches into looks like the godskin fluff to me.
The sky is gloam, the color of the GEQ.
I think this is her defeating the GEQ and becoming a god, starting her ER
Honestly I thought it was Miquella surrounded by the corpses of the blood palace that slaked his cocoon, but the band on the hand doesn’t correlate with that. I thought the thread was something akin to the golden needle motif with Miquella. I’m not sure now after reading the Marika theories, though.
You are right. So maybe Gold was created before,much before,through betrayal.
Marika only injerited that from taking Gold from its previous user/wielder
Actually when thinking about Messmer's words from the first trailer, "those stripped of the grace of gold shall meet death in the embrace of Messmer's flame", his persecution of what seems to be a crucible society, and the fact that we know things relating to the crucible used to be seen as divine(Crucible talismans, Ancient Dragon's and their Gold).
Its definitely seems to me that Marika stripped the Crucible Era and its God(GEQ?) of the Grace of Gold and used it to form her Golden Order of Life, leaving anything relating to the crucible as outside of grace and free to persecution by Messmer. Who ironically embodies all things antithetical to Marika's new age.
What if the crucible was some kind of mass grave? Those strings of light look to be coming from the corpses - what if these are runes and Marika is forming her Rune arc that she adds to the Elden Ring?
This is the moment Marika was created as whoever that individual was prior to Marika/Radagon ascended to Godhood. You can sort of see that the hair is Gingery a cross between Blonde (Marika) and Red (Radagon) so my theory is that prior to the events of the Landsbetween that Marika/Radagon were once a full personality in a single being and due to the events in either SotET or ER that being was fractured into multiple personalities.
I think this is also possibly the creation of the Erdtree as the banks of corpses sort of seem to be in the shape of a tree trunk sort of bowing at the bottom. In between these banks of corpses we see a familiar golden sky box. I believe this is Marika manifesting her age into being.
To me it really seems like Marika stole the “gold” away from whatever that almost stomach looking thing was in the beginning. The line “seduction and betrayal” also sticks out to me alot. It seems like maybe Marika (from the land of shadow originally) sacrificed thousands of people to get the “gold” she stole away. Possibly manipulating all the people we see in the piles of corpses in the beginning to get what she wanted from them. Maybe messemer found out about the truth and turned to blasphemy? Maybe miquella told him about the truth and manipulated him into fighting the war for him? So many questions, but can’t wait to play the dlc!
True! Sorry my post probably wasn’t that well written then haha. Messemer was probably there to cleanup the people who lived in the land of shadow. If Marika did sacrifice thousands of them, and they knew about it. Messemer could’ve been the cleanup crew?
Just watched it for the first time, here are my scattered thoughts:
* Marika rose to power thanks to Dracula fighting their own kind
* Then presumably she left him there
* THE TREE PREDATES HER ORDER! Or at least the roots do, or we are seeing the creation of it? Damn
* This has nothing to do with Destined Death. No GEQ, no godskin, no Maliketh
* Miquella is trying to redeem his family? Is it guilt? Is it just a coup? What quest did he abandon that this DnD party is going for?
* Messmer is gonna be a bitch to fight.
I think that's the Crucible, the primordial form of the Erdtree, exemplified by its RED TINT, where life was once blended together. In the new trailer, Marika extracts what seems like golden threads from something, and that something I reckon is the corpse of the first empyrean and former vessel of the Elden Ring, the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Maliketh kills her because she was the vessel of the Elden Ring and wielded the power of Destined Death, in that sense, Marika killed two birds in one shot, became the new vessel of the ER and sealed away the rune of death. We have this information:
"At an unknown period in history, the Empyrean Marika became the vessel of the Elden Ring, becoming a god and establishing the Golden Order by confining the Rune of Death, and began the Age of the Erdtree."
The image seems to me like it is inside the erdtree which is made of recycled corpses, but how can this be if this is the literal beginning of Marika's reign, before erdtree burial and recycling took place?
I don’t think the Erdtree was the first great tree. Those statues of the Dynasty guy also saw him seemingly being penetrated by roots. The Crucible too seemed to indicate a lot of budding root sprouts (with axe and tree imagery from the knights implying some were chosen and some weren’t, as well as the statues in Altus). Mohg too was assembling great tumorous bloody sacrifices for a new dynasty, and Miquella was watering his Haligtree with own blood. I think this has all happened before.
It's a cycle! We sometimes forget that. There have been many Great Trees, as we know from certain items there were past LORDS of Rot (not just the old Rot God).
The Erdtree could have been created with bodies/souls, and it needs them supplied continuously to survive. This may be one of the reasons we see the Erdtree in such a poor state in the base-game, since there are no more bodies being given up to the Erdtree it has died and even the spectral form is leaning.
Lot to unpack here. Initial thoughts:
* How can we say that she is holding Grace/Runes, if the Elden Ring wasn't in her control yet?
* The thing she grabbed the hair-like strands from looks to be a human corpse. At least, it was covered with what looked like a cloak.
* She does not look pregnant in this scene, which will probably be important
* There had already been a lot of theories that the Erdtree was watered with blood. I had figured maybe Marika had used her own blood, but it seems more like she used this massive mass of corpses.
* Speaking of which, this takes place before the War centered in the trailer. So these are the corpses of some other group, than the country that existed in the land of shadow before.
* This looks like Rykard.
I think a lot of evidence points to this being Rykard but I don't think the timeline really matches? It looks like we're witnessing the founding of the Golden Order which would have been pre-Radagon/Rennala and thus pre-Rykard.
Yea, I know, it's not literally Rykard, but the state of his body looks a lot like the mound of limbs in this image. (Also, another direct link to grafting)
I think it points to a similar manifestation of powers, and it could be linked either to the theme of "fire,", that connects Gelmir and the Land of Shadow, or the specific way the "Divine" power manifests.
Looking at the world beyond the opening. It looks like the entrance to the Dlc location VIA haligtree entrance. The opening looks like it leads to miqellas haligtree
Parting of the red (bloody) seas. Path towards the LB. Also makes me think of births, also reminds me of the visual of the Erdtree from the Leyndell throne room.
Big theory time but shortened as I don’t want to write a long essay here: what if Marika managed to somehow split her real self from Radagon. What if Radagon was just a vessel for her that she put the Elden Beast into, a vessel, powered by the Elden Beast, which could take Marika‘s form whereas the true Marika is still alive, hiding at the birthplace of her godhood and we will fight her as the final boss of the DLC?
Miquella will want to do this and I think we will need to stop him. I think the cost it will be so high for becoming a God that it will impossible to side with him.
This may be basic, but I genuinely think that Miquella is just standing between some monuments to Messmer's sins. The corpses of those he killed in that grand purge the trailer talked about.
Maybe it used to connect to the mainland, sorta like that chain connecting the mountains to the Lands Between, but I don't think it has much significance outside of that.
That's the entrance to the new golden Erdtree I believe. The tree is made of bodies, and that roar or wind that comes through is her offering herself to the Elden Beast. I think it's quite literally Marika entering the Lands Between for the first time through the trees entrance.
It's suuuper interesting because I can't tell if that's Miquella or Marika/Radagon. Also, notice the strands of hair taken from a corpse (?) and when held up they almost tether to the sky and we hear (assumingly the greater will) make contact. Bloodborne 2 is looking 🔥
Personally I think this is the crucible, and this is gonna show us what happened at the founding of the golden order. I think what we see, is the original Erdtree before the golden order got it. And those first few seconds we see, is the magical process of covering the crucible in rays of gold. Turning it into the Erdtree we see in the main game.
I think this is the crucible. the place where all life conjoined together. Marika using her rune to start the golden order(?). also the shape of the corpse tower thing looks like the great tree in the deeproot depts.
The body that Marika pulls the golden threads from look very similar to Godwyn's Dead form, as if she reaches behind an Eye. Thematically, "death must die" is in her zone and a christian trope. It may be that Ranni also imitates this ritual, just with key changes or inversions
It seems marika took something she wasn’t supposed possibly from numen and used it to create a land of gold and this also created a contrasting world of shadow or silver in the shadow of the golden land and marika may have waged war using messmier to attack the shadow lands that’s what I thought but only watched it once
Am I broke for thinking this is Marika separating the Erdtree’s shadow and its realm from the rest of the lands between? That’s what I first assumed - that this scene actually takes place after what’s depicted in the rest of the trailer. All the gloam on the right and left of the bodies… it looks to me like a whole other dimension. The way Marika is holding the rune arcs/gold threads looks like she is exerting effort to pull those pillars of bodies together to separate the realms. Of course, she would be on the side of shadow in this instance, so I can’t rationalize that. And yes, lots of birth imagery, which would make more sense for creating the Erdtree. Idk! I’m just not sure the narration has to be congruent with what’s being depicted in the trailer
It makes me think about the rune of the unborn.
Also the texture is similar to Godskins Nobles robes (which would be related with Gloamed-eyed queen)
In conclusion, Melina is the unborn child that is seeking her mother and thats why she wants to get to the erdtree.
I knew it from a beginning
I think this shows Marika separating The Lands Between from everything else. It's in the name. The lands between what exactly? For something to be "between" there has to be something outside. Outer lands, outer gods.
Is this connected to the Formless mother? This looks like a gate to me, that leads into something touched by the Greater will. But what's behind, all the bodies and blood...I'm confused because I'd say that that's the land of shadows but it doesn't look like anything we've seen from the trailer at all.
Another possible explanation for what's going on scene that I have seen no one mention yet: It's Marika welcoming and looking over the arrival of the Elden Beast through the golden star sent by the Greater Will. It could help explain why part of the sky seem to be golden colored between the bodies while all around elsewhere its purplish. It might also explain the gush of wind that blows over due to the impact.
It’s definitely Marika imo, they intentionally chose the EB’s music during these segments-and the narration seems to be referring to her actions.
Also after the shot of Messmer where it scales up to the tree, what I initially thought were golden accents actually look like Marikas Runic symbol
Melina did say she was born at the foot of the erdtree. I feel like there's something here that points us to her birth. Be that the stolen gold Marika took, or mesmers war.. There's a reason she doesn't remember. I hope we learn more about her and her connection to Marika.
I have some wild speculation based on the old Marika was the gloam eyed queen theory that may have been completely disproven at this point.
The "fisting" scene appears to show Marika stealing golden hair from a newborn. While the imagery heavily implies birth, I feel it's symbolic, and instead of a womb, it's a godskin swaddling cloth. The purple on the outside and gold on the inside of the depicted scene suggesting the gloam eyed queen will be born anew as Queen Marika, vessel for the elden ring using the hair taken from a child graced with gold.
My near baseless theory is that the child was Messmer. Gloam-eyed queen saw the opportunity and became Queen Marika. Whether intentional or not, doing this usurped grace from Messmer forcing him to stay in the land of shadows. Over time, his resentment for the greater will/golden order led to his blasphemous imagery.
Evidence:
1) At one point, I saw a post suggesting Marika may be the gloam eyed queen, and to my knowledge, we don't have confirmation on her identity.
2) Marika is Messmer's mom. This was suggested through Messmer's dialogue in the original trailer, and I haven't followed up to confirm if that's still the theory.
3) This could be the why to all of Marika's actions throughout the game. Last I knew, known character motivations also kind of imitated Marika in having a role in the events leading up to the shattering.
4) I don't know much about the lore of this game, so I can kind of say whatever, and it sorta fits.
My guess is that when the Elden Ring was whole, the Lands Between reflected that. The crucible where all things are one is basically on full display here, Marika had Malekith kill the Gloam Eyed Queen on behalf of the Greater Will’s ambitions. As we know from the endings, adding or subtracting runes causes the entire rules of existence to change in TLW.
Marika fucks off to the new realm through the Erdtree gate/portal (we burn away the thorns, presumably messemer did the same) to do her new Golden Order shenanigans, presumably leaving some very pissed off demigods behind.
Is it the entrance to the Erdtree?
Also have to mention undeniable vagina at the start of the cinematic, which I found interesting since it's long been theorised that there are no births in the Lands Between, and that people are somehow born via the Erdtree.
This is the Erdtree in Leyndell. Where Marika is standing is what would become the hollow inside that you enter. The door to enter it would be built behind where she's standing in this shot.
The Erdtree in Leyndell itself is an illusion, superimposed onto the mass of corpses she left in the wake of her ascent to god-hood. It would be a very grim reminder while she was surrounded by them for presumably centuries.
“I was born 87 years ago. For 65 years I've ruled as Tamriel's emperor, but for all these years, I've never been the ruler of my own dreams. I have seen the gates of Oblivion, beyond which no waking eye may see. Behold, in darkness, a doom sweeps the land. This is the 27th of Last Seed, the year of Akatosh, 433. These are the closing days of the third era, and the final hours of my life.”
It seems to be the foot of a helical Erdtree, likely the one withering away in the Land of Shadows.
Marika defeated the previous God(ess?) and ruling civilization, resulting in a field of guts and corpses. Then she plucks the Elden Ring from the womb of said Godess. She communes with the Elden Beast/Greater Will and is granted the Grace of Gold - becomes a vessel for the ER and is blessed with immortality.
The two pillars - stems of a Great Tree - are covered with corpses to nourish it.
Its helical shape is a reference to Berserk, and the Helix of Light which connects planes of existence (the astral plane with the real world). It's also connected to the Haligtree - or rather, the Haligtree is likely connected to this - and Miquella's motive of helixes.
It is likely the place where Marika's rule began, and where it will end - by Miquella's hand, with the birth of a new god and the planting of a new Tree. Here, Miquella will either completely sever the planes of existence and cut off the influence of Outer Gods completely, or do the exact opposite (like Griffith) and rule as a new God after the ultimate betrayal.
It kind of looked like she was taking something from Godskin, that vagina looking thing at the beginning could just be some ruffled Godskin robes. Maybe she slew the previous god or another empyrean and did some ritual to become a god?
She did kill the gloam eyed queen, who was also an empyrean. So maybe that was their dispute and maybe they were even demigod siblings…
Just like in Dark souls, the land of the gods is where supernatural and natural converge. Marika for some reason split them into light and dark like the rest of the world. We keep learning This lady keeps messing with things
Marika's Godhunt.
She went after the god of the previous age the GeQ.
A certain amount of "sacrifices" were needed to "eclipse" the previous god's age and ascend to Godhood
Messmer isn't one of Marikas kids, he's Marikas EX
She seduced him or some form of him to get the threads that became the elden ring, and the inquisition we see in the trailer is his vengeance
It seems like it is supposed to visually represent a birth canal. The process of becoming a god seems to be weird.
This is the strongest theory to me and aligns with From's general themes exploring birthing and motherhood (see Bloodborne, obviously, but also the beginning of DS2 and the pathway to the chaos boss in DS1)
The fact that the gap there is gold while the rest of the sky is purple-ish might be a representation of how gold/erdree/Marika's order was born. And all these corpses were sacrificed for that birth to happen, which is a process kept happening later in the Erdtree era (catacombs and the roots getting fed by corpses so that new life will be born from the Erdtree)
To me it also looks like Rykard's sword + Innards, perhaps that is what Rykard wished to do by being eaten + eating others? To rebirth a new lineage?
Thank you, finally! The connections to Rykard are crazy evident, at least to me.
Different means to similar ends maybe? In a way, Rykard was trying to 'blend all life together'.
Kind of reminds me of the Crucible when stated like that, maybe that's why one of Tanith's knights is a Crucible Knight.
I see the thing she’s reaching into as an eye. The eye of a serpent to be specific. It’s at a weird angle but the top lid is the one close to the bottom of the shot. To me it looks clearly like a pale white snake that’s eye has rolled back in its socket. So she’s reaching into the eye of a serpent and pulling out its grace. My crack theory is it’s the god the dragons followed, that god very well might have been a giant serpent, and the god of the crucible. Snakes and dragons are always related in most myths so it wouldn’t be weird.
Uhhhh, it looks like a fucking vagina to me. Am I weird?
i thought the same but i knew i had to be worng so i forced myself to belive it was a snake. Turns out it works.
That's what I've been thinking too. Seems like sticking a hand into an eye socket. Would track with the "stealing grace from the eyes" that happens elsewhere
When she holds up the rune arc, there is a gust of wind and a moan. That could be the elden beast.
thank you, I was worried my mind was not in a right place at first.
- Marika is brandishing the threads of gold that she will form into a new Elden Ring - This could be the sealing of Destined Death as the Golden Order is formed - She stands in a doorway linking a land of Gold and a Land of Shadow. I suspect this is a gateway between the Erdtree and Shadow Tree (later sealed)
But, who’s/what corpse was that she got the threads from? Looks like someone’s hair
I assumed it was the crucible and probably whoever was the empyrean of that age, like how the Elden ring exists within Radagon/Marika’s “corpse” at the end of the game
Gloam eyed queen?
Fairly certain that’s the serpents amnion. Given the very evident connection to Rykard in the opening segment of the trailer as well as the “birthing/rebirthing” imagery. And the fact that Marika is wearing a serpent bangle.
They use Golden Order when referencing Messmer on one of the ads for the expansion, so I think you have good points. I think a war because one side sealed Destined Death seems pretty reasonable.
That's the Erdtree, made out of corpses. Miquella saw how corrupted the Golden Order is, and his origin. That's why he divested himself of literally EVERYTHING. And yes, I think St Trina is the personification of Miquella's fate as an Empyrean.
>That's the Erdtree, made out of corpses. I am not disagreeing -- it aligns with my general theory that in this world, the "holy" trees are grown from people -- but am having a hard time just visually making sense of this. Is the camera inside or outside the Erdtree?
It looks like it’s not just physically inside or outside but that the doorway is somehow dividing two worlds, you know? Like you say there is a purple skybox on one side and a bright one on the other, and they say when gold was born so was shadow. Like, this is the physical inversion of the tree in the lands of shadow? The hidden true form of the erdtree?
The Crucible is the primordial form of the Erdtree and is where all life blends together. I think what we see is the Crucible and the mass of flesh is this blending of life. Marika seemingly took something with the power she would then use to create the Erdtree of Gold and the Shadow tree.
Inside.
What's that purple-ish skybox, then? We don't see anything similar to it when we fight Radagon on the stone platform.
I think this was how the Erdtree was born, Marika wanted to have her Golden Order be viewed as a just and morally-charged order or something, so she casted an illusion by putting the "veil" to hide the truth from the inhabitants of the Lands Between. And with the passage of time, the "remnants" of the origin of the Erdtree was erased from the history and well, in the physical world, literally.
It looks like two pillars of flesh in parallel to each other, it doesn't look particularly similar to the Erdtree beyond being a (two) tall structure/s. The fact that you can see a bright light behind the pilars in contrast to the dark shadow cast by the rest of the scene seem to imply that this maybe the point that connects TLB with The lands of shadow. It also may be that it represents the starting point from wich Marika separated the land since this is the "beggining" as told by Miquella.
Might be a literal "gate of flesh". To signify entrance to the world of the living?
Could be, but I think the underground is closer to an "underworld" in the context of ER. Is not only the grave of ancient civilizations but also holds the only two rivers in the land wich is reminiscent of the River Styx or just the rivers of Hades in Greek Mythology, and ER as its own ferryman of death similar to Charon in the form of the Tibia Mariners. I think The lands of Shadow could be seen more as a massive prison like the Tartarus since it's by imprisoning the titans including his own father that Zeus with his siblings initiated their new age wich seems to fit a lot with the implications of the trailer.
I love this parallel. Viewing it as Elden Ring's version of Tartarus is awesome! Good food for thought
Technically, it's both. The side we're seeing is the Shadow side, and if you walked through that opening you would be on the Gold side. Two trees existing in the "same" space at the same time, much like the Radagon/Marika duality.
Does it evoke the arms all over Rykard’s body to anyone else?
YES that is precisely what i thought, Marika made the erdtree togetthaaa perhaps
Starting to get some stark, IRL parallel vibes from SotE. A world order that on the surface appears golden and perfect, but is in fact built atop a mountain of corpses and oceans of innocent blood.
That's been an overarching theme since launch, only now it could have a much more literal interpretation.
For sure, but whereas before it was largely confined to subtext and the unraveling mystery of the main narrative (ie. why did Marika shatter the ER), now it’s being elevated to all caps, double bold text. I also like how the base game emphasized the shattering as misdirection from the real meat and potatoes of the story, which to this point was buried both literally and figuratively.
This could be how erdtrees have always been born though.
I think it’s possible that in the attempt to bring about his order and the eclipse he might accidentally bring about an opposing prophecy, and that’s something GRRM-ish. I’ve spoken about ASIOAF’s influence on Elden Ring, and the characters in the book series often remark about how unreliable the nature of prophecy really is. I wouldn’t be surprised if Miyazaki brings this theme into the games as an impetus to explore Miquella’s fall and death.
I'm still in the camp that believes miquella is going to turn out evil. I think he's going there for his own gain. The whole trailer here is narrated by a tarnished who is following him so she is biased towards him. This is a massive contrast to the last trailer describing his ability to "shrive" the hearts of men terrifying.
Does it evoke the arms all over Rykard’s body to anyone else?
Miquella used his own blood to grow his Haligtree. Marika took the dead bodies of fallen soldiers, possibly along with her followers and used their blood to build the Erdtree. Perhaps the tree we see in the Shadowlands was grown from Messmers impaled victims that we see in the trailer? The idea of sacrificing others to achieve Godhood would definitely fall in line with Griffith, the Godhand, and the countless Berserk references throughout the Soulsborne games
So Marika was the Griffith parallel all along?
She does have an alter ego in Radagon after all that she shape shifts into (like Femto or the Moonlight Boy)
Yeah, pretty much, to the extent that anything here is working on parallels in that fashion. On a side note--I see the sentiment a lot that "[insert soulsborne thing here] is just a Berserk reference" and I think it's missing the point a smidge. Miyazaki and his team constantly referencing Berserk is a thing that is happening, for sure--but that doesn't mean that they are drawing direct analogues to Berserk characters with the narrative intent being that Soulsborne characters are meant to be read as alternate versions of Berserk characters. It means they are taking inspiration from Berserk while creating their own unique work. The distinction is minute, sure, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that it exists. Elsewise, especially when digesting lore and working to theorycraft, you can get a bit lost in the weeds comparing apples to oranges. They're in the same overall category (fruit) but their innards have their own unique structures.
Yeah I was being facetious and it didn’t come across very well. Sort of trying to making fun of the clickbaity lore YouTubers who get way too into the parallel and read it as 1:1. You expressed that very elegantly, though! Thanks for that.
You make good points, but even with that aside, it's amazing how much people don't really think it through. When the text expressing Melania's view that "he has the allure of a god", it's weirdly rare for people to take note of who would be the reference point to Malenia for what the "allure of a god" looks like exactly. I've tended to think that Marika has a decent level of similarity to Griffith, but more because both stories are inheriting the same themes than because GRRM was thinking of Griffith when he made the initial draft of who Marika was going to be.
Yep, my assessment is sourced from similar observations! I think it's a shame really--a lot of times due to forces outside individual control (eg how education as a whole and the arts in particular have been gutted), a lot of people either don't have or don't know or don't care to learn how to use the literary analysis toolbox. So that act of taking connections into consideration like you detailed, that further amount of thinking isn't practiced with such regularity any more, and people are less able to articulate what they do see when they see it. Also, yeah, exactly so--the themes and subject matter are in the same ballpark, so essentially what we see is Miyazaki, GRRM, and Miura all playing with the same boxes but building them up differently.
The figure is definitely Marika—I wasn't completely certain at first, but they're wearing the same bands around their arms and wrists that Marika does. That said, does anybody else think the figure looks a bit more masculine than Marika usually does? When comparing her appearance in the Radagon boss cutscene to here, the figure in the trailer seems to have a less pronounced waistline and no visible breasts. Admittedly, there could be many reasons for this—ranging from misleading camera angles to my mind playing tricks on me—but it's still interesting to note. Perhaps this is another example of Radagon & Marika weirdness. People have been speculating for years that they're a Rebis (a divine hermaphrodite with both male and female qualities) and I've long since thought that they were once being who split and then later rejoined (given that such a thing would line up nicely with the principles of fundamentalism, which Radagon has a lot of associations with). Following that theory, perhaps this is the body they had when they were a single being? Or I'm an idiot and the figure is obviously female & I'm just not seeing it. Food for thought. Some other observations: - I've seen some people speculate that this is the Crucible, which could definitely fit. It is, after all, the place where all life once blended together, and those bodies sure do look blended together. - The thing Marika is holding up looks very much like golden hair. Perhaps taken from an offspring of Marika and whoever it is that got seduced? - The thing she pulls the maybe-hair out of looks like the stitched skin of the Godskins, which others here have noted. All things considered, I'm reminded of the Serpent's Amnion. Could this be the site of a birthing ritual much like the one that produced Rya? - Something else that's interesting to note about the maybe-hair: it's virtually identical to what's coming off of Marika's hammer in [this](https://youtu.be/e8wHJsFEKAM?si=twfPr-4AyXtV9Pa7&t=52) trailer. Given what the hammer was used for, this may well be the birth of the Elden Ring.
A agree this might be the (re)creation of the Elden ring. You can see the strands growing as she holds it up
I agree on the gender part - that’s definitely a more masculine physique. Perhaps Radagon was blonde before, then his hair became red after the events of this DLC
Its definitely still feminine lol
I think its an ambiguous form. Representing how they hadn't split yet.
I made a similar post wondering about this as well. Could you elaborate on: >they're wearing the same bands around their arms and wrists that Marika does I tried to find every canon image of Marika that I could and couldn't find any bracelets. I could definitely be missing something in front of my face, though.
You can see them clearly in Elden Ring's opening cutscene. [Here](https://youtu.be/_uydEN9Fu7M?si=WgQJlBjoLE4vIktm&t=47) is a video set to the right spot.
Ah of course I missed the most obvious reference point
In your defense, it's far from the most notable thing about that cutscene. It's easy to forget everything else that's happening once the narrator starts dramatically listing off names.
watch the introduction of the game, there's Marika at the beginning
She seduced the GEQ and betrayed her, stole the rune of death and banished it, became the Goddess. The thing she is pulling something from seems like a stiched skin, that lines up well with the Godskin
Love this because it implies that sending/becoming Radagon off to marry Rennala is iust Marika going Ol’ Reliable when she couldn’t just kill her army lol “My queen, we cannot overcome their forces.” “Have you tried being sexy at them?”
Damn that's fucking crazy.
Congratulations you've now registered a forever phrase into my lexicon "Have you tried being sexy at them?"
Dnd bards be like
Harem no Jutsu.
YES YES YES. The old man in the Painting is actually Marika. The women is the GEQ. Messmer is their son. Marika had 3 aspects to her. The Father who "birthed" TLB is the old man we see in the painting and everywhere in the lands between holding the golden flower, The Son Who is Radagon and upholds the New Order and its tenets, and the Holy Spirit which is Marika who is a symbol of faith and is the driving force in the shadows(Marika's Mischief;veils;etc.) for everything that transpires.. She divested herself of the Father once she succeed in creating the order as it was no longer needed. But the visage remains in statue form throughout the lands between.
This is insane, and also very cool, it all comes together
Marika is everyone. The turtles are Marika.
There is also an unused item in the game called \*Father\* Marika's Hammer...
Omg this is fucking salient bro. Salient. There are a lot of tidbits that call back to elements of Christianity Most obvious is the crucifixition of marika in the tree The golden order representing medieval Catholicism.
A little tidbit that I think is interesting about this interpretation is that it recontextualizes characters like Goldmask as forces of a kind of Protestantism. His desire to cast away the Two Fingers and recognize some of the most holy figures of the Golden Order as fallible or insufficient to fully appreciate the faith is a very Protestant urge.
Craziest shit I’ve read, add this guy to the painting if he ends up being right
Marika = Elden John? It explains why the trailer image in the OP looks like Moses parting the Red Sea
Someone give this man a prize or something. Stellar theory, plays into so many themes in the game.
The gloamy sky contrasted by the gold, as seen through the opening in the corpses, seems intentional.
Oh I kind of thought it was Godwyn's eye, but I could only watch once and on my phone
100%. The mountains of skinned corpses here seems like the result of a Godskin hunt. The flesh Marika pulls the golden threads from very much looks like skin that has been removed. The gloam sky!!! Marika either was the GEQ or she used the GEQ to do her dirty work then betrayed her in this moment.
The absence of Maliketh and the Godskin make me think this has nothing to do with either GEQ or even Destined Death. This seems to have happened way before that.
As Miyazaki said we're exploring Marika's creation of the Erdtree so that scene is around the end of the Crucible era. I don't know why people are talking about GEQ, Radagon and DD stuff. Maliketh probably didn't even exist at that point.
But it’s stated that Malikeith slayed her
Maliketh *defeated* the GEQ, who is still alive, since she's cradling newborn godskins.
“Miquella spoke of the beginning. The seduction, and the betrayal.” Lines up dude.
I’d pay 9.99 for the “Miquella speaking of the beginning, the seduction, and the betrayal for 10 minutes” DLC for sure
All I know is that will be where we fight the final boss of the dlc.
Man that would be so sick
Having our final fight be where the golden order and queen marikas godhood started would be too perfect.
This is always speculative of course. But I feel like this is the base of the erdtree where we enter to fight Radagon. And Marika challenged the previous order(crucible/gloameyed queen), and after killing her Marika brandished the new rune shape (same way as we do when we defeat Marika. And for the corpses. That is the shape that the erdtree had before Marika and she made it gold (the same way as when we finished the game and use a new rune, the tree gets a different shape and color.
So, Marika "stepped into" the Land of Shadow (coming from wherever the Numen come from), committed genocide against the inhabitants at the behest of the Greater Will, and used the corpses to create the Erdtree and by extension the Golden Order. She then hid her crimes under a veil so that those in the Lands Between would be none the wiser. Messmer is a legacy of these acts. It seems Miquella is intent to divest himself of everything connected to his mother.
I think at the behest of the Greater Will is really just her making propaganda. She did this shit because she's a conqueror, through and through.
That's possible, but then again, she is clearly under the thumb of the Greater Will. Made a deal with the devil and the devil is asking for payment.
She's under the thumb of the Elden Beast; I don't believe the Greater Will is an actual sentient thing and I consider it more just evolution towards order. The Elden Beast, however, is described as the incarnation of order, and we know its sentient. Thus, I propose that the Elden Beast is basically a God-Queen in its own way, possessing Empyreans.
the elden beast was sent to the lands between by the greater will. also, every other outer god has palpable influence (mohg stabs directly into the formless mother with his nihil attack, the god of rot causes malenia to be inflicted with scarlet rot and bloom), i can’t see the greater will being different
GW is connected to the Crucible... which the locals obviously revere
You're misinformed the GW doesn't control Marika. The God bearing the Ring can make the rules of Order. The Crucible was created by the Greater Will when it sent the elden beast to start the primordial life in the Lands Between to begin with. Marika just kicked off her rule with a genocide and then subsequent wars of supremacy cutting out the Omenkind and whatever else she deemed lesser. "Heresy is not native to the world, all things can be conjoined" -Turtle Pope.
From Ordovis' Greatsword: >This sword is imbued with an ancient holy essence. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself. This description has always made me think of blood having to do with the crucible. This structure does look like a huge pile of bloody corpses all blended together. Could this be the birthplace of creatures that hold humanoid and animal characteristics?
From beast blood >Fresh beast **blood**, glinting with **gold**. >Found by **hunting** carnivorous **beasts**. >This glimmering blood never **rots** or **decays**. Certainly seems that way. Marika either literally or figuratively has made her "gold/erdtree" through "blood/the crucible".
I thinks its Marika closing a huge gate made out of corpses created as a seal between Shadowlands and current lands between, she's pulling the strings of gold to close the gate and leave her sins behind her in the land of shadow.
I think it is showing a separation, through which gold and shadow are born. In essence, this must therefore be the crucible, if the words align with the visuals. The crucible is a merging of all life afterall. This is the moment the crucible was broken into the two worlds. One the land's between, the other the shadow of the erd.
its such a powerful image. I want to have fromsofts babies.
This is what happens when those dam farum azula immigrants from the future(or ..past or..nontime?) come and try to take all our lands between jobs. We make the man mound!! dey terk er jerbs!!
It reminds me of Griffiths journey to Godhood, all the bodies leading to his goal.
I assume these are the corpses used to feed a budding great tree, not unlike the tumorous blood and guts Mohg’s been piling up for his own efforts
"Gold" and "Shadow" are both capitalized in the captions for the video, so we might have the parallel or 'Shadow' of Golden Grace shown as a physical concept. And we're going to find out what Golden Grace really means, the historical precedence of it for Marika that has defined an age.
I think the biggest twist Fromsoft would throw at us is Miquella ACTUALLY being a good guy.
Oh. So Marika is Nimue, and Merlin is trapped in the oak tree. Marika clutches the strands of grace, offering them up in the shape of a chalice like Circe by Waterhouse. It's that dusty old story of Eve in the Garden, reiterated again An old betrayal by a woman, a seduction, a snake man and a tree. A woman tasting of the divinity when she's been advised not to as something that resembles earth and bones combined (Adam) sleeps, and a serpent wages a war. Oh yeah, we've got pseudoAbrahamic mythological storytelling happening The corpses of the gateway resemble the final evolution of Shin Godzilla when it was finally killed. That final evolution was the means to continue life through that "power" passing into "human" hands. Could be that this structure is alive, and functions similarly to mimicry found in nature. By separating and distinguishing the light from shadow, Marika shunted the previous "god" into... basically the subconscious. It's some gnostic shit So if Miquella knows this story and the "truth" of divinity, "sacrifices" at least one aspect of himself and is tied to sleep - a metaphor for death and resurrection - and his domain is the realm of the unconscious (the *subconscious*), could be he was trying to regrow the original tree the whole time. The original god of nature, which encompasses the "spiritual" and the physical, the Tree of Life itself. Or the allegorical ER version of it. Returning all things to a time of more peace. But also, ignorance and lack of freewill. It also tends to lead to the burning of maidens as witches eventually Basically there's a lot that could be going on there lol *edit because autocorrect thinks Circle is a person
So much to unpack. Who is this? Where are they? What is that thing they are reaching into? What was the seduction? What was the betrayal? I can already feel the posts coming about the identity of this person. The way the trailer is cut and the snake bracelets seem to suggest Messmer? In this theory, the "betrayal" is felt around TLB which is why snakes are so reviled. The walls (?) also share a resemblance to the blasphemous blade suggesting a parallel between Rykard and this image. But this was "an affair from which Gold arose" suggesting this is one of the fundamental history-defining events of this world. The individuals' attire also sort of suggests they're Marika or Radagon.
My first thought was that this was Marika creating the Golden Order. The flowing gold hair, and holding onto the elden ring like strands.
Yea the bracelet, the hair, we know she became a God here, the piles of corpses. Idk how anyone can not think this is marika... Looks like she grabs something from inside godskin swaddling cloth, has the same golden flows from her hammer in OG ER trailer. This is the last moments before whatever act she did to become GOD.
I dont think it has anything to do with the god skins, the cloth she grabs from looks more like a shirt with buttons rather than a swaddling cloth, i think shes simply grabbing life force or something out of a random corpse, hense why theres so little gold coming out
I mean she is walking up flayed skinned corpses and that thing she reaches into looks like the godskin fluff to me. The sky is gloam, the color of the GEQ. I think this is her defeating the GEQ and becoming a god, starting her ER
Honestly I thought it was Miquella surrounded by the corpses of the blood palace that slaked his cocoon, but the band on the hand doesn’t correlate with that. I thought the thread was something akin to the golden needle motif with Miquella. I’m not sure now after reading the Marika theories, though.
Looks blasphemous
It looks like she killed someone and ripped tissue from their insides to harness power and create Gold
But gold has definitely been a thing before Marika, see Placidusax. Guy has gold all over him, and his fire breath is golden as well.
You are right. So maybe Gold was created before,much before,through betrayal. Marika only injerited that from taking Gold from its previous user/wielder
Actually when thinking about Messmer's words from the first trailer, "those stripped of the grace of gold shall meet death in the embrace of Messmer's flame", his persecution of what seems to be a crucible society, and the fact that we know things relating to the crucible used to be seen as divine(Crucible talismans, Ancient Dragon's and their Gold). Its definitely seems to me that Marika stripped the Crucible Era and its God(GEQ?) of the Grace of Gold and used it to form her Golden Order of Life, leaving anything relating to the crucible as outside of grace and free to persecution by Messmer. Who ironically embodies all things antithetical to Marika's new age.
I just like the sound design of Marika's squishy footsteps on the corpses.
What if the crucible was some kind of mass grave? Those strings of light look to be coming from the corpses - what if these are runes and Marika is forming her Rune arc that she adds to the Elden Ring?
To me it looks like the real foot of the erdtree
This is the moment Marika was created as whoever that individual was prior to Marika/Radagon ascended to Godhood. You can sort of see that the hair is Gingery a cross between Blonde (Marika) and Red (Radagon) so my theory is that prior to the events of the Landsbetween that Marika/Radagon were once a full personality in a single being and due to the events in either SotET or ER that being was fractured into multiple personalities. I think this is also possibly the creation of the Erdtree as the banks of corpses sort of seem to be in the shape of a tree trunk sort of bowing at the bottom. In between these banks of corpses we see a familiar golden sky box. I believe this is Marika manifesting her age into being.
Looks to me like the creation of the Erd Tree, with what look like A LOT of dead bodies. Pretty metal.
Major Dantes Inferno vibes
It looks exactly like the entrance the erd tree
Thematic shit of the birth of a god requiring such sacrifice?
How does it feel to have been so entirely correct lmao
is that marika or radagon holding up the rune at the end? Usually marika has a dress while radagon has a skirt.
Radagon is a redhead, while the figure's hair is clearly blonde. I'm certain it's Marika.
To me it really seems like Marika stole the “gold” away from whatever that almost stomach looking thing was in the beginning. The line “seduction and betrayal” also sticks out to me alot. It seems like maybe Marika (from the land of shadow originally) sacrificed thousands of people to get the “gold” she stole away. Possibly manipulating all the people we see in the piles of corpses in the beginning to get what she wanted from them. Maybe messemer found out about the truth and turned to blasphemy? Maybe miquella told him about the truth and manipulated him into fighting the war for him? So many questions, but can’t wait to play the dlc!
Messmer clearly serves her in his burning of the world.
True! Sorry my post probably wasn’t that well written then haha. Messemer was probably there to cleanup the people who lived in the land of shadow. If Marika did sacrifice thousands of them, and they knew about it. Messemer could’ve been the cleanup crew?
Just watched it for the first time, here are my scattered thoughts: * Marika rose to power thanks to Dracula fighting their own kind * Then presumably she left him there * THE TREE PREDATES HER ORDER! Or at least the roots do, or we are seeing the creation of it? Damn * This has nothing to do with Destined Death. No GEQ, no godskin, no Maliketh * Miquella is trying to redeem his family? Is it guilt? Is it just a coup? What quest did he abandon that this DnD party is going for? * Messmer is gonna be a bitch to fight.
I think that's the Crucible, the primordial form of the Erdtree, exemplified by its RED TINT, where life was once blended together. In the new trailer, Marika extracts what seems like golden threads from something, and that something I reckon is the corpse of the first empyrean and former vessel of the Elden Ring, the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Maliketh kills her because she was the vessel of the Elden Ring and wielded the power of Destined Death, in that sense, Marika killed two birds in one shot, became the new vessel of the ER and sealed away the rune of death. We have this information: "At an unknown period in history, the Empyrean Marika became the vessel of the Elden Ring, becoming a god and establishing the Golden Order by confining the Rune of Death, and began the Age of the Erdtree."
The image seems to me like it is inside the erdtree which is made of recycled corpses, but how can this be if this is the literal beginning of Marika's reign, before erdtree burial and recycling took place?
I don’t think the Erdtree was the first great tree. Those statues of the Dynasty guy also saw him seemingly being penetrated by roots. The Crucible too seemed to indicate a lot of budding root sprouts (with axe and tree imagery from the knights implying some were chosen and some weren’t, as well as the statues in Altus). Mohg too was assembling great tumorous bloody sacrifices for a new dynasty, and Miquella was watering his Haligtree with own blood. I think this has all happened before.
It's a cycle! We sometimes forget that. There have been many Great Trees, as we know from certain items there were past LORDS of Rot (not just the old Rot God).
The Erdtree could have been created with bodies/souls, and it needs them supplied continuously to survive. This may be one of the reasons we see the Erdtree in such a poor state in the base-game, since there are no more bodies being given up to the Erdtree it has died and even the spectral form is leaning.
Lot to unpack here. Initial thoughts: * How can we say that she is holding Grace/Runes, if the Elden Ring wasn't in her control yet? * The thing she grabbed the hair-like strands from looks to be a human corpse. At least, it was covered with what looked like a cloak. * She does not look pregnant in this scene, which will probably be important * There had already been a lot of theories that the Erdtree was watered with blood. I had figured maybe Marika had used her own blood, but it seems more like she used this massive mass of corpses. * Speaking of which, this takes place before the War centered in the trailer. So these are the corpses of some other group, than the country that existed in the land of shadow before. * This looks like Rykard.
I think a lot of evidence points to this being Rykard but I don't think the timeline really matches? It looks like we're witnessing the founding of the Golden Order which would have been pre-Radagon/Rennala and thus pre-Rykard.
Yea, I know, it's not literally Rykard, but the state of his body looks a lot like the mound of limbs in this image. (Also, another direct link to grafting) I think it points to a similar manifestation of powers, and it could be linked either to the theme of "fire,", that connects Gelmir and the Land of Shadow, or the specific way the "Divine" power manifests.
Any potential relation to Mohg? There’s a lotta blood here…
Thank you for Isolating this. \*\*Wallpaper\*\*
Looking at the world beyond the opening. It looks like the entrance to the Dlc location VIA haligtree entrance. The opening looks like it leads to miqellas haligtree
It could be the crucible, the blending of all life in a literal sense
Parting of the red (bloody) seas. Path towards the LB. Also makes me think of births, also reminds me of the visual of the Erdtree from the Leyndell throne room.
That sky do be gloamin', and those corpses... skinned?
All i can say is we are going to have to revisit all those threads that claimed item descriptions cant be considered golden order propaganda.
Reminds me of that one picture of the Two Fingers standing in some kind of temple with its... two fingers(arms?) pointed straight up in the air
Big theory time but shortened as I don’t want to write a long essay here: what if Marika managed to somehow split her real self from Radagon. What if Radagon was just a vessel for her that she put the Elden Beast into, a vessel, powered by the Elden Beast, which could take Marika‘s form whereas the true Marika is still alive, hiding at the birthplace of her godhood and we will fight her as the final boss of the DLC?
Miquella will want to do this and I think we will need to stop him. I think the cost it will be so high for becoming a God that it will impossible to side with him.
This may be basic, but I genuinely think that Miquella is just standing between some monuments to Messmer's sins. The corpses of those he killed in that grand purge the trailer talked about. Maybe it used to connect to the mainland, sorta like that chain connecting the mountains to the Lands Between, but I don't think it has much significance outside of that.
It’s absolutely related to the god eating serpent with all those arms everywhere just like Rykard. Yup I’m already in loony ville.
That's the entrance to the new golden Erdtree I believe. The tree is made of bodies, and that roar or wind that comes through is her offering herself to the Elden Beast. I think it's quite literally Marika entering the Lands Between for the first time through the trees entrance.
It's suuuper interesting because I can't tell if that's Miquella or Marika/Radagon. Also, notice the strands of hair taken from a corpse (?) and when held up they almost tether to the sky and we hear (assumingly the greater will) make contact. Bloodborne 2 is looking 🔥
The gold strands she pulls out of the white mass look like a rune arc in the wind.
Personally I think this is the crucible, and this is gonna show us what happened at the founding of the golden order. I think what we see, is the original Erdtree before the golden order got it. And those first few seconds we see, is the magical process of covering the crucible in rays of gold. Turning it into the Erdtree we see in the main game.
Reminds me a lot of rykard and his sword more specifically
I think this is the crucible. the place where all life conjoined together. Marika using her rune to start the golden order(?). also the shape of the corpse tower thing looks like the great tree in the deeproot depts.
The body that Marika pulls the golden threads from look very similar to Godwyn's Dead form, as if she reaches behind an Eye. Thematically, "death must die" is in her zone and a christian trope. It may be that Ranni also imitates this ritual, just with key changes or inversions
That looks like the entrance of the Erdtree, before being covered by the coat of grace.
It seems marika took something she wasn’t supposed possibly from numen and used it to create a land of gold and this also created a contrasting world of shadow or silver in the shadow of the golden land and marika may have waged war using messmier to attack the shadow lands that’s what I thought but only watched it once
I have way too many themes for Marika's Double Dare 2000 win.... Attack on Titan, Natasha Bedingfield, BBL Drizzy...
Am I broke for thinking this is Marika separating the Erdtree’s shadow and its realm from the rest of the lands between? That’s what I first assumed - that this scene actually takes place after what’s depicted in the rest of the trailer. All the gloam on the right and left of the bodies… it looks to me like a whole other dimension. The way Marika is holding the rune arcs/gold threads looks like she is exerting effort to pull those pillars of bodies together to separate the realms. Of course, she would be on the side of shadow in this instance, so I can’t rationalize that. And yes, lots of birth imagery, which would make more sense for creating the Erdtree. Idk! I’m just not sure the narration has to be congruent with what’s being depicted in the trailer
Looks like a site of grace which looks like the reflection on the water which is all intentional
FromSoft's version of the Eclypse
Sure does look a lot like the opening to the erdtree.
Nice contrast between a golden and a purple sky. Seems to show the transition from GEQ to Marika's Golden order (over a lot of corpses).
Reminds me of Rykard and the blasphemous blade
It makes me think about the rune of the unborn. Also the texture is similar to Godskins Nobles robes (which would be related with Gloamed-eyed queen) In conclusion, Melina is the unborn child that is seeking her mother and thats why she wants to get to the erdtree. I knew it from a beginning
I think this shows Marika separating The Lands Between from everything else. It's in the name. The lands between what exactly? For something to be "between" there has to be something outside. Outer lands, outer gods.
Those are clearly feet fashioned out of the victims of messmers flame.
It does invoke the image of a birthing canal but its almost like she's using the fibres to weave it shut.
Is this connected to the Formless mother? This looks like a gate to me, that leads into something touched by the Greater will. But what's behind, all the bodies and blood...I'm confused because I'd say that that's the land of shadows but it doesn't look like anything we've seen from the trailer at all.
Another possible explanation for what's going on scene that I have seen no one mention yet: It's Marika welcoming and looking over the arrival of the Elden Beast through the golden star sent by the Greater Will. It could help explain why part of the sky seem to be golden colored between the bodies while all around elsewhere its purplish. It might also explain the gush of wind that blows over due to the impact.
It’s a vagina. Birth canal. Life and death. Love and failure. Praise
It’s definitely Marika imo, they intentionally chose the EB’s music during these segments-and the narration seems to be referring to her actions. Also after the shot of Messmer where it scales up to the tree, what I initially thought were golden accents actually look like Marikas Runic symbol
It looks like the entrance of the erdtree viewed from the inside. I wonder if there is any significance there
Melina did say she was born at the foot of the erdtree. I feel like there's something here that points us to her birth. Be that the stolen gold Marika took, or mesmers war.. There's a reason she doesn't remember. I hope we learn more about her and her connection to Marika.
Mohg's Pleasure Dungeon
I have some wild speculation based on the old Marika was the gloam eyed queen theory that may have been completely disproven at this point. The "fisting" scene appears to show Marika stealing golden hair from a newborn. While the imagery heavily implies birth, I feel it's symbolic, and instead of a womb, it's a godskin swaddling cloth. The purple on the outside and gold on the inside of the depicted scene suggesting the gloam eyed queen will be born anew as Queen Marika, vessel for the elden ring using the hair taken from a child graced with gold. My near baseless theory is that the child was Messmer. Gloam-eyed queen saw the opportunity and became Queen Marika. Whether intentional or not, doing this usurped grace from Messmer forcing him to stay in the land of shadows. Over time, his resentment for the greater will/golden order led to his blasphemous imagery. Evidence: 1) At one point, I saw a post suggesting Marika may be the gloam eyed queen, and to my knowledge, we don't have confirmation on her identity. 2) Marika is Messmer's mom. This was suggested through Messmer's dialogue in the original trailer, and I haven't followed up to confirm if that's still the theory. 3) This could be the why to all of Marika's actions throughout the game. Last I knew, known character motivations also kind of imitated Marika in having a role in the events leading up to the shattering. 4) I don't know much about the lore of this game, so I can kind of say whatever, and it sorta fits.
To me it's the moment when Marika enters to the Lands Between. Yo can see darkness from her side but golden in front of her.
Are those silhouettes of Envoy's in the top right corner?
My guess is that when the Elden Ring was whole, the Lands Between reflected that. The crucible where all things are one is basically on full display here, Marika had Malekith kill the Gloam Eyed Queen on behalf of the Greater Will’s ambitions. As we know from the endings, adding or subtracting runes causes the entire rules of existence to change in TLW. Marika fucks off to the new realm through the Erdtree gate/portal (we burn away the thorns, presumably messemer did the same) to do her new Golden Order shenanigans, presumably leaving some very pissed off demigods behind.
Marika bad! Miquella good!
That's the OG budussy
The lands between is a created world within the real world (the land of shadow). You pass between the trees open trunk to enter.
It's the base of the erdtree.
Is it the entrance to the Erdtree? Also have to mention undeniable vagina at the start of the cinematic, which I found interesting since it's long been theorised that there are no births in the Lands Between, and that people are somehow born via the Erdtree.
"They seriously wanted to top Bloodborne, huh?"
This is the Erdtree in Leyndell. Where Marika is standing is what would become the hollow inside that you enter. The door to enter it would be built behind where she's standing in this shot. The Erdtree in Leyndell itself is an illusion, superimposed onto the mass of corpses she left in the wake of her ascent to god-hood. It would be a very grim reminder while she was surrounded by them for presumably centuries.
Its giving Griffith's fever dream as he ran towards the castle over the bodies.
“I was born 87 years ago. For 65 years I've ruled as Tamriel's emperor, but for all these years, I've never been the ruler of my own dreams. I have seen the gates of Oblivion, beyond which no waking eye may see. Behold, in darkness, a doom sweeps the land. This is the 27th of Last Seed, the year of Akatosh, 433. These are the closing days of the third era, and the final hours of my life.”
I think it’s the crucible tree. Crucible is the stirring pot of all life, so the tree is fleshy.
Creating the tree from bodies? Idk I feel like it
It seems to be the foot of a helical Erdtree, likely the one withering away in the Land of Shadows. Marika defeated the previous God(ess?) and ruling civilization, resulting in a field of guts and corpses. Then she plucks the Elden Ring from the womb of said Godess. She communes with the Elden Beast/Greater Will and is granted the Grace of Gold - becomes a vessel for the ER and is blessed with immortality. The two pillars - stems of a Great Tree - are covered with corpses to nourish it. Its helical shape is a reference to Berserk, and the Helix of Light which connects planes of existence (the astral plane with the real world). It's also connected to the Haligtree - or rather, the Haligtree is likely connected to this - and Miquella's motive of helixes. It is likely the place where Marika's rule began, and where it will end - by Miquella's hand, with the birth of a new god and the planting of a new Tree. Here, Miquella will either completely sever the planes of existence and cut off the influence of Outer Gods completely, or do the exact opposite (like Griffith) and rule as a new God after the ultimate betrayal.
Those mountains look like two halves. And the red looking people remind me of the serpent.
I don't know if it's meant to be but I see a face in the wall on the right side. Looks a bit like davy Jones.
It kind of looked like she was taking something from Godskin, that vagina looking thing at the beginning could just be some ruffled Godskin robes. Maybe she slew the previous god or another empyrean and did some ritual to become a god? She did kill the gloam eyed queen, who was also an empyrean. So maybe that was their dispute and maybe they were even demigod siblings… Just like in Dark souls, the land of the gods is where supernatural and natural converge. Marika for some reason split them into light and dark like the rest of the world. We keep learning This lady keeps messing with things
Marika's Godhunt. She went after the god of the previous age the GeQ. A certain amount of "sacrifices" were needed to "eclipse" the previous god's age and ascend to Godhood
That’s the door you open after you beat Vordt of the boreal valley
Messmer isn't one of Marikas kids, he's Marikas EX She seduced him or some form of him to get the threads that became the elden ring, and the inquisition we see in the trailer is his vengeance