I still wish the game acknowledged it in some way if you got the frenzy flame to make the sacrifice to burn the Erdtree, but then basically fought the hardest boss in the game to be able to cure it and not engulf the world in flame.
I feel like it should have been an Undertale thing, where when you go the genocide route all gloves are off.
Imagine the likes of Morgott, Fire Giant, Maliketh, Gideon and Godfrey forgo any sense of honour and immediately amp up their effort to stop you knowing what will come if you become the Elden Lord.
Honestly should just be like Sekiro where Melina is an extra boss for the Frenzied Ending if you use yourself for the Kiln. Was actually quite shocked the different endings didn't have different bosses after Sekiro
Probably because they wanted you to be able to kill all bosses in a single playthough. Sekiro was the only game that didn't allow that, something quite a few people didn't like.
To be fair you literally can't experience the whole game in one play through already. I think that NG+ should be encouraged through these things, like previous games did with special weapons, items etc, getting more bosses would be even better
>Nier is a goofy example. The "endings" aren't actually endings, they're just stopping points before the game keeps going
Incorrect for both games.
Nier Replicant's endings A, B,C,D all are endings. Play the credits and everything. The plot does not continue past that point.
Nier Automata's endings C,D,E are also complete endings.
I was one of those people that did not enjoy this. I usually do the bad ending first in souls games and then do a second playthrough for the good one.
Imagine my surprise when I realised that doing the sura ending in sekiro locks you out of the final area and the bosses. And because I didn't enough prayer beads unlocked I was thrown into new game plus underpowered as heck causing me to get one shotted by every single enemy.
So I had to either make a brand new game or try to beat everyone in ultra hard mode. This lead to a massive burnout that caused me to drop the game for a while before retrying. So I don't care about achievements but at least don't force me to replay the game before I'm ready. Almost every other fromsoft game lets you free roam before you go into new game plus...
Pretty sure only DS2, 3, and Elden Ring let you roam after defeating the final boss (maybe the Demon's Souls games haven't played those). Everything else launches you into NG+ after the credits
i think they're referring to an actual boss fight almost being made for her, i saw something a while ago that there was a scrapped boss fight that had melina as the boss.
There may be another video out there that I haven't seen, but the only one I know of they swapped Melina in place of another boss and gave her her current moveset, so it was a pseudo boss but it wasn't really fleshed out
I have the feeling that Elden Ring got kinda rushed in the end, unfortunately. I really hope FromSoft doesn’t do it again, because a “crunch timing” studio is exactly *not* what they should be.
I share that thought. Once you reach certain parts in the game, such as the snowfield, you really get a feeling for how much effort they put into the early and mid game areas.
that's just how it is in general. their best ideas and the creative spurts come early on in the design process. plus, realistically they know a ton of players won't finish the game. they'd rather put the good, time-consuming stuff up front so the most people can experience it.
stormveil is so ridiculously intricate it's insane. given it's looming over the entirety of limgrave and you're encouraged to head there first, it's no surprise the devs clearly wanted you to go there first and experience it.
Leyndell is the breaking point of the game, nearly everything after it is a massive drop in quality. Mountaintops don't even have a single unique enemy, Fromsoft just dropped every most annoying to fight mob in there, and absolutely nothing to compensate for that.
Mountaintops and Consecrated Snowfield are poorly designed, agreed. But I thought that the Haligtree / Elphael areas were excellent, even if they are much more linear than, say, Stormveil.
i mean, their dlc has been the gold standard since ds1, with Artorias of the Abyss. Ds2 gets dogged on for the core game and all of those DLCs are insanely good. Bloodborne's DLC is amazing. Even DS3 crushed it with their DLC.
Blood and wine is right up there with the upper tier DLCs though. wish the final battle was better, but it was pretty satisfying absolutely dumpstering that smug fuck.
I really liked the suggestion I saw somewhere that if you had embraced the frenzied flame, every boss from that point forward would *start* the fight in phase two, with full health. They would recognize that you're a legitimate danger to the entire world, not just another "lowly tarnished" who's got delusions of grandeur. There's no honor to be had anymore, no decorum to observe, they're just trying to stop you at all costs.
> There's no honor to be had anymore, no decorum to observe, they're just trying to stop you at all costs.
The thing is, most of them don't really 1. have a reason to care, and 2. have a way to know.
Malenia just woke up. She sees a stranger, assumes correctly they are their for her rune, and unless the stranger strips naked, and she looks into their eyes, she wouldn't know they took the flame. Same with the rest.
I really wish more games would go with an Undertale-esque story. Where you can choose to be the worst, most despicable character and the game will react by giving you harder and harder bosses.
Yes! I've had this idea in my mind of a story where the villains use the the power of love to commit evil. Just reversing all the tropes assosciated with love/friendship/whatever.
Armored Core For Answer has something like that with the Old King ending. You team up with the guy that just wants to destroy the world for the lols, and as a result you end up having to fight all the factions teamed up against you in an extremely difficult 2 v 4 (5 if you play on Hard Mode)
I was thinking of this during my Lord of Chaos run. I'm still able to interact with Dung Eater, Fia, Corhyn, and everyone else without anyone batting an eye that I'm vying for the right to correct the mistake of life.
I want everyone to despise me, with the exception of the Merchant Nomads, and Vyke. Patches, too. I want to be reviled and cast out by everyone in fear of what I want to unleash unto The Lands Between.
I think this is literally possible if they just finish the miquella line in the DLC，you know?like use those golden needles made by Miquella.We've already know that we can use that to avoid the Frenzy flame end
Imagine the age of fracture ending, but right at the end before it says the end, we see Melina’s shadow step up before the new Elden Lord…
Melina: I was wrong… in your journey, you seemed to have learned more than I’d ever thought one could. Of the failures of those before, and what boons you may gain from them… I wonder… didst thou endure these hardships and sacrifices for mine sake alone… or wouldst thee do it for all in these lands?.. I came to deliver to you what is yours… but perhaps it is not time you receive it yet… I will wait and see the age you bring, and I pray the care you showed me, will be extended to all life.
*Melina walks away*
Melina: Torrent, I never should’ve doubted your choice. Goodbye, Tarnished Lord. Thank you.
Narrator: They will remember; The Age of Sacrifice
As far as I can tell, the Age of Stars ending is closest to what Marika intended. She seems to have lost faith in the Greater Will and wanted to remove its influence, but she didn't want to destroy the entire world.
If you really want to piss off Marika, go for the Age of Order.
Hadn't thought about it that way, but I guess it makes sense. Still doesn't justify what she did to my poor boy Gurranq. May she become ash and fade away as she deserves.
And she probably knew that abolishing Golden Order would get her killed. After all, she tasked Hewg with forging a weapon capable of killing a god (IE: capable of killing her/Radagon.)
Man, things would've been so much simpler if Marika was open about things. The Greater Will already knew she was rebellious and wanted to rid herself of its influence, so what was the point of hiding her intentions to the people she needed whatever form of aid from?
And as we all know. The one thing that can't exist in a from game is a good ending.
It's all just pointless misery. The point is there is no point. Nothing matters and all your pointless struggles amount to little more than prolonging the inexorable.
Fun fact: you don’t actually need to fight Placidusax to cure yourself. All you need to do is be in the arena, and as he isn’t hostile until you approach him, you can 100% just cure yourself and fast travel out.
They should've added that as another use for the celestial dew we use at the turtle popes church to, uh, "mend soured relationships", at least after using the needle.
Her saying it conveys anger, seeing as how she help the tarnished in the beginning, looking at the wound to ensure it’s fatal and possible painful. The tarnished saying it conveys sadness, her face almost confused and shocked at her own actions.
I’d prefer tarnished saying it
Or she’s saying she saved the tarnished from joining the frenzied flame and becoming evil, saved them from themself and from becoming the person to end the world
"In a stunning turn of events, a Tarnished is being sued for saving a maiden who, apparently, didn't want to be saved. The plantiff, Melina, who was foiled in her attempted suicide by the Lord of Chaos, has filed suit against the famed Tarnished in Elden Court."
All rise for the honorable Judge.
"Hello? Order in the court. Someone might be interested in having their case heard by the great Kenneth Haight? Servant to the true Order, and celebrated repudiator of the false!"
Invader vyke maybe vyke himself trying to stop you from going down the same road. But ends up giving you the last ingredients to get your own frenzied flame maiden.
Weirdly enough he seems far less crazy as an invader at the roundtable hold. Then doesn't seem to recognize you when you release him. It's almost like the phantom is a version of him but it's not actually him...
To be honest I thought the invasion was there to explain why she lost an arm: The Tarnished cut it off during the invasion and she managed to limp her way to the church without dying.
Yes all tarnished have 1 maiden. The prevailing theory is the White Mask Varre killed your maiden before you awoke, which also explains why he’s just outside the starting area and knows your maiden is dead. Melina then offers to become your maiden to an extent
Vyke’s maiden is dead for an unknown reason. All we know is vyke went to the frenzied flame so his maiden wouldn’t have to sacrifice herself at the Kiln in mountain tops of giants like Melina does. However after the frenzied flame possessed him, his maiden died for another reason.
My guess is either he accidentally inflicted her with madness, was afflictied with madness himself and killed her, a bloody finger like varre killed her, or she killed herself bc vyke went mad
Could have been the Grafted Scion that killed her, also you being maidenless is a given, a Maiden is the Tarnished's companion and a Tarnished just showed up without anyone by his side tells you that they're maidenless
I don't know why this is such a popular theory.
Varre's whole initiation ritual is having Tarnished kill their own maiden, why would he interfere with his own rules?
Gameplay contrivance, rather than a plot point imo. I do not believe submitting yourself to the three fingers is something that could be reversed in actuality.
No it's definitely a lore thing. The needle when finished would be able to stave off the influence of any of the gods and was meant to permanently rid Malenia of the influence of the rot god and the scarlet rot but obviously it didn't exactly work since it wasn't finished.
No idea why you need to go to where you fight Placidusax for it to work tho
It’s because Placidusax’s arena is hidden outside of regular time, like it’s own pocket dimension, and so the outer gods can’t reach within it to perpetuate their domains. We can’t use the needle anywhere else because the outer gods are constantly exerting influence across the Lands Between; the needle might slow or drive the Frenzy back for a time, but the active will of the Frenzied Flame is stronger than a cleansing talisman crafted by a demigod. Only in the absence of the will of the outer gods— and thus, in the arena of Placidusax— is it possible to use the needle to its greatest extent.
This isn’t directly supported by any item descriptions or dialogue, but there isn’t another place to use the needle, so I can only assume that time bubble aspect of Placidusax’s arena is what is important.
That's a good point. She doesn't even *need* saving because she is technically already a ghost. Although, you could say that being burned as kindling for the giant kiln is total oblivion, so she wouldn't even be a spirit... 🤔
I like to believe there is. We chose to go that route. In the same way Shabriri has embraced chaos, we have. It’s not like we didn’t want that to happen. We were warned what the Frenzy Flame would do, and we went with it.
Melina: I can't and don't want to be saved please do not inherit the Frenzied Flame for me.
Frenzied Flame players: I saved my dear friend Melina, why is she not grateful.
I got randomly three-fingered, I mean, I just was there and shit happened. Then I went all "oh, then I'll save Melina, that's great", I even went to get the gold needle and all.
But after Millicent's quest, I was just in LET'S BURN ALL THIS SHIT mode.
Like most players ypu just randomly follow each quest until something happen not knowing what consequences they will bring. Dark Souls and Elden Ring really are an example of the idiot hero
The game outright tells you the consequences for continuing this. She sits down with you, explains why it's bad, and says you'll become enemies if you take it. Then become shocked when she says she's going to kill you after you take it.
That's kind of what I love about the Dark Souls/Elden Ring protags. You don't win because you're particularly strong, or smart, or because you have a divine mission or plan.
You win because you have moxie! The one thing that separates the player Tarnished from others is that the player doesn't give up, and keeps coming back and fighting until the end.
Fr I was into saving Melina but I didn't really want to set the world on fire. Then almost every character I loved died a horrible death or died by my hand. I just wanted to end this cruel world.
I felt a bit dirty.
I really thought there would be a choice to make, a dialogue or something, but I opened the door and… oops.
It was really a good moment in the game, the kind of moment you realize you've been too far and you've committed to more than you thought.
Because you still betrayed Melina and robbed her of her purpose for existing. That's more than enough grounds for no longer being on talking terms regardless of if you went all "oopsie sorry, I take it back I didn't mean it I swear."
Im not saying melina needs to forgive you, but there is literally no mention of you correcting your mistake aside from the different possible ending, which still doesn't mention the fact that you switched
You don't purge it, you "tame" it. If someone yanks the needle from you, you will become the Lord of the frenzied flame. Just like Milicent dies from scarlet rot after she removes the needle
the two times we saw that happen, the person had to yank the needle out themselves and we took it a step further, Milicent and Malenia were still being ravaged, we weren't subjected to the whims of the Frenzied Flame
Yeah, but it's still not what she wants. Vyke's maiden just sat there and died once she didn't have purpose. Melina and the Finger Maidens are basically Mr Meseeks, except their whole purpose in life is to guide the tarnished and sacrifice themselves.
Tarnished: "You get to live, you'll be thankful someday."
Melina: *Looks out over a world devoid of all life, burning away each day as all of existence steadily dissolves into nothing and knowing it'll eventually engulf her too* - "Gee, thanks."
Me when someone thinks that anyone talking about actually saving Melina is talking about the Frenzied Flame *ending*:
"Hey buddy, you just blow in from stupid town?"
Is she even really alive? She doesn’t really have a physical form and can teleport anywhere AND survives the Frenzied Flame, which is supposed to kill all life
Considering Melina is already seemingly dead and semi-incorporeal (she states she exists burned and body less), what in the hell did we even save her for? She's already a spirit.
I got the flame, went to Farum, killed the... Hmm. I froze for like a minute right now, trying to remember its name. Fortissax is after two gargoyles, yea? Ekzykes has rot, Agheel hangs out not far from our friend with a weird hat, Boreas has ice... FFS, what was the name of that two headed dragon?
Anyways, cleared the psycho fire from my character and then became lord. Pity she never returned, but I find comfort in the fact that she's alive out there somewhere. One day she'll return to kill me for becoming the insane fire lord only to find a perfectly normal (if somewhat burnt) person.
Edit: Placidusax.
I wouldn't defend myself. Cause if you defeat the NPC invader, you get the loot and they never return. But if you die, you can try again.
I can see it: she drives the dagger through the character's chest, they fall to their knees, raise their head, say something like "I'm glad to know you're doing fine", and then fall back. Then after some time she invades again and sees the character, who was prepared for a fight, but puts their weapons away upon realizing it's her. "Don't worry, I won't resist. Can I just have a few moments to enjoy my dear friend's company?"
maybe she would leave before you kill her until her last invasion and get more powerful every time, as if she has become a tarnished like you to gain the ability to “turn runes into strength” and get more powerful, but her goal is only to beat you, rather than becoming elden lord
It's so weird to see writing like this. As if your train of thought is hindered by your brain when you literally have every answer to everything right in front of you. A quick google and voila! Good recitation of the dragons though except for... Whats his name?
she watched torrents ring crumble to ash in her hands listening to his last few screaming whistles before his death, I'm positive she is more than happy to make us suffer as much as possible before killing us and doesn't feel any gratitude at all.
Oh and WE'RE the Ranni simps for wanting to ride off into the moonset with a four armed doll, these Flame simps out here burning the world down just for a girl that doesn't even like them.
Lmao on my first playthrough I didn't find out about the frenzied flame ending until after burning the urdtree but had already gotten the sewer grace so I didn't even know she got mad at you for it until I saw the memes
Damn, this hit harder than it should've. Cuz that was at least my reasoning for going with the Frenzied Flame. Use it to burn the tree and keep the one person that was willing to be my maiden alive.
Looking at it, Melina chose to be our Maiden. She had no obligation to. Of course, she had hrr own reasons, but she still chose to stick by our side. If only there was a moment when she rejoined you at a Site Of Grace once you burned the tree and cleansed the Frenzied Flame, and her having conflicted feelings about being saved from a death she thought was inevitable in order to help us, now being in this dilema of finding her own purpose again.
**Frenzied Tarnished:** I'm undermining your lifelong purpose, thx for the horse tho.
**Melina:** Um, k bye.
**Frenzied Tarnished:** Now everything's fire forever, u should thank me.
**Melina:** Why are you like this.
Hello my fellow Tarn.
Do YOU want to save this said woman in the picture, while not burning the whole world down?
Well, if that is the case, you're one lucky sunovabitch! Cause we have our brand new product, MIQUELLAS NEEDLE!
After burning yourself at the forge and saving this fine looking lady, you need this item if you do not want to burn everything else down!
Oh? What's that? You're asking how you can get this very special product? It's very simple! We help an another lady at the swamp of Caelid that goes by the name ''Millicent''. After helping her on her journey, we will end up at the haligtree, which is where she will give you the ''Unalloyed Gold Needle''. This will be absolutely necessary to have, because using THIS needle, we will stab her mother's flower, and get our ''Miquellas Needle''.
Who is the Mother you say? Reach the roots of the Haligtree and you will find, the one and only, THE WOMAN I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF!
After beating her, there will be a big flower in her boss arena. Stab said flower with our needle, and we have our product!
Since it's a very special needle, you'll need to go and ask the Dragonlord himself to inject you with it. He doesn't like doing it, so knock him out first. And done! The voices of frenzy are now gone and now you can be an ordinary Elden Lord, while your dearest maiden, Melina, has survived!
...she doesn't really care about this however. She gets mad at you for getting the frenzied flame in the first place. But it is A-OKAY! BECAUSE YOU JUST SAVED YOUR WOMAN!
(i have no idea why i wrote this, maybe its because i did this on my latest run out of boredom)
maybe not the artist's intention, but i see some slight ambiguity in who is actually speaking just based on who the speech bubble is pointing to. makes the piece more poignant for me, with this interpretation.
After playing some more and paying more attention to the world, I realize that allowing Melina to burn herself is the best for her, even if you pick the Frenzied Flame ending to "save" her. In the Church where you fight Vyke, you can see his Maiden is sitting there dead in a chair, no blood or anything. He took away her purpose for living, so she just sat down and waited to die.
Melina isn't an actual Maiden, but you're still deliberately going against her wishes. If you really want to do the Frenzied Flame ending, but care about her (as much as you can for a video game character), it's best to let her die, and not know that it was for nothing.
Imagining an entire dialogue trying to apologize to Melina for taking away her destiny but your love for her is too strong to sacrifice her after going through so much together.
This is so sad.
I actually wont let her be sacrificed, even if that is what she wants, i mean lets assume the tarnished absolutely hates the world and wants destroy it, while in his quest to world destruction, he had a companion who upon realizing what he wants to do, they start telling them how important life is and how beautiful it is sometimes, lets say the tarnished started to change his mind a bit and wants to give life another chance, JUST for that companion want to be sacrificed to save the world even though there is another way, No i will save them so that they can show them this "important and beautiful life" they cant just tell them all that and then proceed to sacrifice themselves and spare themselves from the hardship of living and destruction when they could have been saved, because in the end, death is merciful, life isn't
Honestly with this ending i wouldnt mind if she killed me. Its a tit for tat thing. She gave me a honda I give her my life. Also if you interpret it as saving her…youre actually doing it for your own self righteousness. She made it very clear what she wanted to do in her mission and you messed it up. Taking the one goal she was so close to accomplishing away from her is pretty fucked up ahha Talk about selfish tarnish ><
I still wish the game acknowledged it in some way if you got the frenzy flame to make the sacrifice to burn the Erdtree, but then basically fought the hardest boss in the game to be able to cure it and not engulf the world in flame.
I feel like it should have been an Undertale thing, where when you go the genocide route all gloves are off. Imagine the likes of Morgott, Fire Giant, Maliketh, Gideon and Godfrey forgo any sense of honour and immediately amp up their effort to stop you knowing what will come if you become the Elden Lord.
Honestly should just be like Sekiro where Melina is an extra boss for the Frenzied Ending if you use yourself for the Kiln. Was actually quite shocked the different endings didn't have different bosses after Sekiro
Probably because they wanted you to be able to kill all bosses in a single playthough. Sekiro was the only game that didn't allow that, something quite a few people didn't like.
Achievement poachers, the kind of people who loathe a second playthrough because it cuts into their schedule of playing 25 $3 games per week
Or people who just want to experience all of a game in one playthrough without having to go through the same bosses and areas multiple times?
To be fair you literally can't experience the whole game in one play through already. I think that NG+ should be encouraged through these things, like previous games did with special weapons, items etc, getting more bosses would be even better
Yep, elden ring did pretty good but nier automata encouraged multiple playthroughs wonderfully
Nier is a goofy example. The "endings" aren't actually endings, they're just stopping points before the game keeps going.
>Nier is a goofy example. The "endings" aren't actually endings, they're just stopping points before the game keeps going Incorrect for both games. Nier Replicant's endings A, B,C,D all are endings. Play the credits and everything. The plot does not continue past that point. Nier Automata's endings C,D,E are also complete endings.
I was one of those people that did not enjoy this. I usually do the bad ending first in souls games and then do a second playthrough for the good one. Imagine my surprise when I realised that doing the sura ending in sekiro locks you out of the final area and the bosses. And because I didn't enough prayer beads unlocked I was thrown into new game plus underpowered as heck causing me to get one shotted by every single enemy. So I had to either make a brand new game or try to beat everyone in ultra hard mode. This lead to a massive burnout that caused me to drop the game for a while before retrying. So I don't care about achievements but at least don't force me to replay the game before I'm ready. Almost every other fromsoft game lets you free roam before you go into new game plus...
Pretty sure only DS2, 3, and Elden Ring let you roam after defeating the final boss (maybe the Demon's Souls games haven't played those). Everything else launches you into NG+ after the credits
If I'm not mistaken she has mechanics for a boss fight. They were just never used.
She's summonable for Morgott
i think they're referring to an actual boss fight almost being made for her, i saw something a while ago that there was a scrapped boss fight that had melina as the boss.
There may be another video out there that I haven't seen, but the only one I know of they swapped Melina in place of another boss and gave her her current moveset, so it was a pseudo boss but it wasn't really fleshed out
~~Zillow~~ Zullie the Witch’s channel did a video with fighting her as a boss, may be the one you’re thinking of. https://youtu.be/kxEf3ugX8Ls
*Zullie the Witch
I have the feeling that Elden Ring got kinda rushed in the end, unfortunately. I really hope FromSoft doesn’t do it again, because a “crunch timing” studio is exactly *not* what they should be.
I share that thought. Once you reach certain parts in the game, such as the snowfield, you really get a feeling for how much effort they put into the early and mid game areas.
that's just how it is in general. their best ideas and the creative spurts come early on in the design process. plus, realistically they know a ton of players won't finish the game. they'd rather put the good, time-consuming stuff up front so the most people can experience it. stormveil is so ridiculously intricate it's insane. given it's looming over the entirety of limgrave and you're encouraged to head there first, it's no surprise the devs clearly wanted you to go there first and experience it.
Leyndell is the breaking point of the game, nearly everything after it is a massive drop in quality. Mountaintops don't even have a single unique enemy, Fromsoft just dropped every most annoying to fight mob in there, and absolutely nothing to compensate for that.
Disagree, I love Farum Azula. But, I will agree on Mountaintops being the Lost Izalith of this game.
Mountaintops and Consecrated Snowfield are poorly designed, agreed. But I thought that the Haligtree / Elphael areas were excellent, even if they are much more linear than, say, Stormveil.
Really hoping they go all out for this DLC
[удалено]
i mean, their dlc has been the gold standard since ds1, with Artorias of the Abyss. Ds2 gets dogged on for the core game and all of those DLCs are insanely good. Bloodborne's DLC is amazing. Even DS3 crushed it with their DLC. Blood and wine is right up there with the upper tier DLCs though. wish the final battle was better, but it was pretty satisfying absolutely dumpstering that smug fuck.
I really liked the suggestion I saw somewhere that if you had embraced the frenzied flame, every boss from that point forward would *start* the fight in phase two, with full health. They would recognize that you're a legitimate danger to the entire world, not just another "lowly tarnished" who's got delusions of grandeur. There's no honor to be had anymore, no decorum to observe, they're just trying to stop you at all costs.
> There's no honor to be had anymore, no decorum to observe, they're just trying to stop you at all costs. The thing is, most of them don't really 1. have a reason to care, and 2. have a way to know. Malenia just woke up. She sees a stranger, assumes correctly they are their for her rune, and unless the stranger strips naked, and she looks into their eyes, she wouldn't know they took the flame. Same with the rest.
I really wish more games would go with an Undertale-esque story. Where you can choose to be the worst, most despicable character and the game will react by giving you harder and harder bosses.
The NPCs getting the same power of friendship/determination to stop evil (you) that the players normally get is my favorite trope in games
Yes! I've had this idea in my mind of a story where the villains use the the power of love to commit evil. Just reversing all the tropes assosciated with love/friendship/whatever.
Armored Core For Answer has something like that with the Old King ending. You team up with the guy that just wants to destroy the world for the lols, and as a result you end up having to fight all the factions teamed up against you in an extremely difficult 2 v 4 (5 if you play on Hard Mode)
Heh, lap dog..
I was thinking of this during my Lord of Chaos run. I'm still able to interact with Dung Eater, Fia, Corhyn, and everyone else without anyone batting an eye that I'm vying for the right to correct the mistake of life. I want everyone to despise me, with the exception of the Merchant Nomads, and Vyke. Patches, too. I want to be reviled and cast out by everyone in fear of what I want to unleash unto The Lands Between.
I think this is literally possible if they just finish the miquella line in the DLC，you know?like use those golden needles made by Miquella.We've already know that we can use that to avoid the Frenzy flame end
Imagine the age of fracture ending, but right at the end before it says the end, we see Melina’s shadow step up before the new Elden Lord… Melina: I was wrong… in your journey, you seemed to have learned more than I’d ever thought one could. Of the failures of those before, and what boons you may gain from them… I wonder… didst thou endure these hardships and sacrifices for mine sake alone… or wouldst thee do it for all in these lands?.. I came to deliver to you what is yours… but perhaps it is not time you receive it yet… I will wait and see the age you bring, and I pray the care you showed me, will be extended to all life. *Melina walks away* Melina: Torrent, I never should’ve doubted your choice. Goodbye, Tarnished Lord. Thank you. Narrator: They will remember; The Age of Sacrifice
but then it would be a good ending, and that is a nono.
Why are Ranni simps the only ones that are allowed to have a good ending? I will not stand for this!
As an Age of Stars enjoyer, I never cared about Ranni. I simply hate Marika.
Based.
As far as I can tell, the Age of Stars ending is closest to what Marika intended. She seems to have lost faith in the Greater Will and wanted to remove its influence, but she didn't want to destroy the entire world. If you really want to piss off Marika, go for the Age of Order.
Hadn't thought about it that way, but I guess it makes sense. Still doesn't justify what she did to my poor boy Gurranq. May she become ash and fade away as she deserves.
And she probably knew that abolishing Golden Order would get her killed. After all, she tasked Hewg with forging a weapon capable of killing a god (IE: capable of killing her/Radagon.)
Man, things would've been so much simpler if Marika was open about things. The Greater Will already knew she was rebellious and wanted to rid herself of its influence, so what was the point of hiding her intentions to the people she needed whatever form of aid from?
But at what cost? Iji died in the hands of the assassins and Blaidd stand guard near the entrance of Ranni's Rise slowly losing his sense of reason.
Blaidd and Iji both take out multiple Black Knives before they go down
If you left Blaidd alive after seeing him in that state then I actually feel sorry for Blaidd
I didn't. I used the Blade I received from Ranni so both me and Ranni could give him a proper goodbye. :')
And as we all know. The one thing that can't exist in a from game is a good ending. It's all just pointless misery. The point is there is no point. Nothing matters and all your pointless struggles amount to little more than prolonging the inexorable.
Bloodborne and DaS2 have good-ish endings... one of them just gets you decapitated. Just a little.
...he got better...
You could also argue that Bloodbornes secret ending is a good one.
I'd say Age of Stars and Age of Order are good endings
I cured myself and beat the game and I was so disappointed when it didn’t even give me anything.
Fun fact: you don’t actually need to fight Placidusax to cure yourself. All you need to do is be in the arena, and as he isn’t hostile until you approach him, you can 100% just cure yourself and fast travel out.
I believe the "hardest boss" they're referring to is Malenia, who you have to kill to get the final version of the needle.
They should've added that as another use for the celestial dew we use at the turtle popes church to, uh, "mend soured relationships", at least after using the needle.
I got downvoted for saying the same thing not long ago
I like how you could interpret either person saying “I saved you.”
Her saying it conveys anger, seeing as how she help the tarnished in the beginning, looking at the wound to ensure it’s fatal and possible painful. The tarnished saying it conveys sadness, her face almost confused and shocked at her own actions. I’d prefer tarnished saying it
There is also a third interpretation of the tarnished believing that by burning everything, he saved them from life’s misery
Ahh. The serial killer logic.
or a fourth interpretation of Melina saying she saved the once noble tarnished from the flames madness
Or she’s saying she saved the tarnished from joining the frenzied flame and becoming evil, saved them from themself and from becoming the person to end the world
"You didn't save my life, you ruined my death!"
Your maiden didn’t ask to be saved. Your maiden didn’t WANT to be saved!
"In a stunning turn of events, a Tarnished is being sued for saving a maiden who, apparently, didn't want to be saved. The plantiff, Melina, who was foiled in her attempted suicide by the Lord of Chaos, has filed suit against the famed Tarnished in Elden Court."
"5 moons later another suite was filed by the victims of the waves of gold cliffside incident. The Tarnished's losses cost his rune grind millions."
All rise for the honorable Judge. "Hello? Order in the court. Someone might be interested in having their case heard by the great Kenneth Haight? Servant to the true Order, and celebrated repudiator of the false!"
I read this in the voice from the TMZ lawyer guy, and at the end The People's Court music played... and now jts stuck in my head
This is why the lands between need to legislate the Good Samaritan laws to protect tarnished who want to save their maidens
But she will be alive to hate me.
I saved you not for your sake but for mine!
#***LOL!!!*** Thank you man!
As if there is anything left of the tarnished you used to be after the ending.
Vyke almost did the same but having realized what he did after his maiden died, shunned himself in an evergaol Not sure who the invader vyke is tho
Invader vyke maybe vyke himself trying to stop you from going down the same road. But ends up giving you the last ingredients to get your own frenzied flame maiden.
*Palpatine voice* "Ironic"
Kind of an inversion of the Plagueis tale. “He could save himself from madness, but not others”
I think it’s just him protecting his maiden
Self fulfilling prophecies be like
Invaders are sometimes spirits/alternate versions. Like invader Millicent, who has both her arms and is obviously not “our” Millicent.
See also the Dung Eater at Roundtable Hold, who even talks about how his actual body is elsewhere
Weirdly enough he seems far less crazy as an invader at the roundtable hold. Then doesn't seem to recognize you when you release him. It's almost like the phantom is a version of him but it's not actually him...
First time I played I hadn't met our Millicent until after I killed invader. I was confused to say the least
To be honest I thought the invasion was there to explain why she lost an arm: The Tarnished cut it off during the invasion and she managed to limp her way to the church without dying.
he is physically in an evergaol but his Will defends his maidens corpse, which is what the invader is
What's more, it seems he separated the Frenzied Flame somehow. At least, his Evergaol fight features none of that despite this being Fingerprint Vyke
Invader vyke is real vyke, protecting his maidens dead corpse from you
for all this maidenless talk, I sure never seen any other Tarnished's maiden except for this corpse
Is that the dead maiden in the starting area?
No. That’s yours. Vyke’s maiden is the one in the frenzied flame church, where he invades
Do I have more than one? Sorry if it's a dumb question. Also why is she dead? I guess all tarnished have one?
Yes all tarnished have 1 maiden. The prevailing theory is the White Mask Varre killed your maiden before you awoke, which also explains why he’s just outside the starting area and knows your maiden is dead. Melina then offers to become your maiden to an extent Vyke’s maiden is dead for an unknown reason. All we know is vyke went to the frenzied flame so his maiden wouldn’t have to sacrifice herself at the Kiln in mountain tops of giants like Melina does. However after the frenzied flame possessed him, his maiden died for another reason. My guess is either he accidentally inflicted her with madness, was afflictied with madness himself and killed her, a bloody finger like varre killed her, or she killed herself bc vyke went mad
Vyke has the best backstory in the game
Well he is the main character..he's on the cover after all
Could have been the Grafted Scion that killed her, also you being maidenless is a given, a Maiden is the Tarnished's companion and a Tarnished just showed up without anyone by his side tells you that they're maidenless
I don't know why this is such a popular theory. Varre's whole initiation ritual is having Tarnished kill their own maiden, why would he interfere with his own rules?
Foolish tarnished over here up to his eye sockets in maidens.
Huh I've never thought about it that way
- visit 3 finger joe - burn the erdtree alone - go to farum azula - use the needle to reverse the touch of joe ZERO npc reaction..
Gameplay contrivance, rather than a plot point imo. I do not believe submitting yourself to the three fingers is something that could be reversed in actuality.
No it's definitely a lore thing. The needle when finished would be able to stave off the influence of any of the gods and was meant to permanently rid Malenia of the influence of the rot god and the scarlet rot but obviously it didn't exactly work since it wasn't finished. No idea why you need to go to where you fight Placidusax for it to work tho
It’s because Placidusax’s arena is hidden outside of regular time, like it’s own pocket dimension, and so the outer gods can’t reach within it to perpetuate their domains. We can’t use the needle anywhere else because the outer gods are constantly exerting influence across the Lands Between; the needle might slow or drive the Frenzy back for a time, but the active will of the Frenzied Flame is stronger than a cleansing talisman crafted by a demigod. Only in the absence of the will of the outer gods— and thus, in the arena of Placidusax— is it possible to use the needle to its greatest extent. This isn’t directly supported by any item descriptions or dialogue, but there isn’t another place to use the needle, so I can only assume that time bubble aspect of Placidusax’s arena is what is important.
Y’all are amazing. Sometimes I’m not even sure we’re playing the same game.
This is a great observation and makes so much sense.
I believe that th sees in game indication that the needle only works outside time
I disagree. Miquella is just that much of a chad. It might well be my favourite lore moment
You also turn the whole world to fire. How does that even save her? Wouldn't she still burn, just... Later?
She’s a spirit anyway 😆
That's a good point. She doesn't even *need* saving because she is technically already a ghost. Although, you could say that being burned as kindling for the giant kiln is total oblivion, so she wouldn't even be a spirit... 🤔
I like to believe there is. We chose to go that route. In the same way Shabriri has embraced chaos, we have. It’s not like we didn’t want that to happen. We were warned what the Frenzy Flame would do, and we went with it.
I always interpreted it as by the end you are just the flames of chaos in the end your personality much like all life burned into nothingness
I mean… it’s still you. You become the lord of frenzied flame. Your essentially what marika was
Melina: I can't and don't want to be saved please do not inherit the Frenzied Flame for me. Frenzied Flame players: I saved my dear friend Melina, why is she not grateful.
A real frenzied flame player would burn Melina and then engulf the the rest of the world in fire too.
I’m glad I’m a real frenzied flame player
Based
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I got randomly three-fingered, I mean, I just was there and shit happened. Then I went all "oh, then I'll save Melina, that's great", I even went to get the gold needle and all. But after Millicent's quest, I was just in LET'S BURN ALL THIS SHIT mode.
Like most players ypu just randomly follow each quest until something happen not knowing what consequences they will bring. Dark Souls and Elden Ring really are an example of the idiot hero
The game outright tells you the consequences for continuing this. She sits down with you, explains why it's bad, and says you'll become enemies if you take it. Then become shocked when she says she's going to kill you after you take it.
That's kind of what I love about the Dark Souls/Elden Ring protags. You don't win because you're particularly strong, or smart, or because you have a divine mission or plan. You win because you have moxie! The one thing that separates the player Tarnished from others is that the player doesn't give up, and keeps coming back and fighting until the end.
Fr I was into saving Melina but I didn't really want to set the world on fire. Then almost every character I loved died a horrible death or died by my hand. I just wanted to end this cruel world.
Randomly fingered in the sub-basement of Lyndell.
I felt a bit dirty. I really thought there would be a choice to make, a dialogue or something, but I opened the door and… oops. It was really a good moment in the game, the kind of moment you realize you've been too far and you've committed to more than you thought.
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Good bot
It doesn't matter if she's not grateful, as long as she's alive
She’s alive, and everything she cared about and was trying to improve with her sacrifice is gone 👍🏼
Even if you reverse the the effect there's no acknowledgment from any other part of the game but the available elden lord ending
Because you still betrayed Melina and robbed her of her purpose for existing. That's more than enough grounds for no longer being on talking terms regardless of if you went all "oopsie sorry, I take it back I didn't mean it I swear."
Im not saying melina needs to forgive you, but there is literally no mention of you correcting your mistake aside from the different possible ending, which still doesn't mention the fact that you switched
My brother in Christ you can literally cure yourself of the flame, thereby making her sacrifice completely unnecessary.
You don't purge it, you "tame" it. If someone yanks the needle from you, you will become the Lord of the frenzied flame. Just like Milicent dies from scarlet rot after she removes the needle
the two times we saw that happen, the person had to yank the needle out themselves and we took it a step further, Milicent and Malenia were still being ravaged, we weren't subjected to the whims of the Frenzied Flame
Yeah, but it's still not what she wants. Vyke's maiden just sat there and died once she didn't have purpose. Melina and the Finger Maidens are basically Mr Meseeks, except their whole purpose in life is to guide the tarnished and sacrifice themselves.
But that was not what she wanted She has every right to be mad at you for that, even if you cure the flame
The comic clearly shows the Tarnished with the flame head, so in this context, that option doesn’t really matter.
Tarnished: "You get to live, you'll be thankful someday." Melina: *Looks out over a world devoid of all life, burning away each day as all of existence steadily dissolves into nothing and knowing it'll eventually engulf her too* - "Gee, thanks."
Me when someone thinks that anyone talking about actually saving Melina is talking about the Frenzied Flame *ending*: "Hey buddy, you just blow in from stupid town?"
Something tells me the Tarnished in OPs artwork didn't cleanse the Flame
He's just, uh, doing a dead cells cosplay. Yes, that's it haha
Isn't the whole point of the frenzy flame ending that your going to kill and destroy everything until there all ash?
She isn’t alive. Her body is dead and she was leading a shitty half-existence as a spirit. She even tells you that she is burned and bodiless
Is she even really alive? She doesn’t really have a physical form and can teleport anywhere AND survives the Frenzied Flame, which is supposed to kill all life
She *does not want to be* and explicitly states that. She wants to sacrifice her life, such as it is, to burn the Erdtree.
Considering Melina is already seemingly dead and semi-incorporeal (she states she exists burned and body less), what in the hell did we even save her for? She's already a spirit.
We saved her spirit i guess. We have seen what can happen when your spirit dies with Godwyn
His spirit died, but his body remained. Melina I'm pretty sure has neither should she serve as kindling.
Right
*Kills Lord of Frenzied Flame* *Lord resurrects at nearest site of ~~Grace~~Frenzy* What the fuck?
And I'll fuckin do it again!
Me with one achievement left: Guess I'll embrace the three fingers.
I wish there was a frenzied flame helm
I got the flame, went to Farum, killed the... Hmm. I froze for like a minute right now, trying to remember its name. Fortissax is after two gargoyles, yea? Ekzykes has rot, Agheel hangs out not far from our friend with a weird hat, Boreas has ice... FFS, what was the name of that two headed dragon? Anyways, cleared the psycho fire from my character and then became lord. Pity she never returned, but I find comfort in the fact that she's alive out there somewhere. One day she'll return to kill me for becoming the insane fire lord only to find a perfectly normal (if somewhat burnt) person. Edit: Placidusax.
i always thought it would be cool if after you get the frenzy flame ending melina periodically invaded you throughout the story in ng+
I wouldn't defend myself. Cause if you defeat the NPC invader, you get the loot and they never return. But if you die, you can try again. I can see it: she drives the dagger through the character's chest, they fall to their knees, raise their head, say something like "I'm glad to know you're doing fine", and then fall back. Then after some time she invades again and sees the character, who was prepared for a fight, but puts their weapons away upon realizing it's her. "Don't worry, I won't resist. Can I just have a few moments to enjoy my dear friend's company?"
maybe she would leave before you kill her until her last invasion and get more powerful every time, as if she has become a tarnished like you to gain the ability to “turn runes into strength” and get more powerful, but her goal is only to beat you, rather than becoming elden lord
Just like you killed Radagon to become elden lord? Maiden Ring.
Fucking Deathloop lol
Dragonlord Placidusax?
Flaccidusex
Thank you. You put my mind at ease, seriously.
It's so weird to see writing like this. As if your train of thought is hindered by your brain when you literally have every answer to everything right in front of you. A quick google and voila! Good recitation of the dragons though except for... Whats his name?
she watched torrents ring crumble to ash in her hands listening to his last few screaming whistles before his death, I'm positive she is more than happy to make us suffer as much as possible before killing us and doesn't feel any gratitude at all.
Oh and WE'RE the Ranni simps for wanting to ride off into the moonset with a four armed doll, these Flame simps out here burning the world down just for a girl that doesn't even like them.
Tsundere simps I swear
Aw yes, misericorde me mommy Melina.
I think that's the Blade of Calling.
Frenzied Flame Lord: Worth... :3
I got disappointed I couldn’t keep the cool eyes on NG+
Well... I let melina burn and then got the flame so i guess i am not included in that thing am i.
The smartest path. MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLDDD!
Lmao on my first playthrough I didn't find out about the frenzied flame ending until after burning the urdtree but had already gotten the sewer grace so I didn't even know she got mad at you for it until I saw the memes
Damn, this hit harder than it should've. Cuz that was at least my reasoning for going with the Frenzied Flame. Use it to burn the tree and keep the one person that was willing to be my maiden alive. Looking at it, Melina chose to be our Maiden. She had no obligation to. Of course, she had hrr own reasons, but she still chose to stick by our side. If only there was a moment when she rejoined you at a Site Of Grace once you burned the tree and cleansed the Frenzied Flame, and her having conflicted feelings about being saved from a death she thought was inevitable in order to help us, now being in this dilema of finding her own purpose again.
BUT YOU KILLED TORRENT.
**Frenzied Tarnished:** I'm undermining your lifelong purpose, thx for the horse tho. **Melina:** Um, k bye. **Frenzied Tarnished:** Now everything's fire forever, u should thank me. **Melina:** Why are you like this.
Get cheese touch Burn tree Go to Ohio Remove cheese touch Melina alive
Hello my fellow Tarn. Do YOU want to save this said woman in the picture, while not burning the whole world down? Well, if that is the case, you're one lucky sunovabitch! Cause we have our brand new product, MIQUELLAS NEEDLE! After burning yourself at the forge and saving this fine looking lady, you need this item if you do not want to burn everything else down! Oh? What's that? You're asking how you can get this very special product? It's very simple! We help an another lady at the swamp of Caelid that goes by the name ''Millicent''. After helping her on her journey, we will end up at the haligtree, which is where she will give you the ''Unalloyed Gold Needle''. This will be absolutely necessary to have, because using THIS needle, we will stab her mother's flower, and get our ''Miquellas Needle''. Who is the Mother you say? Reach the roots of the Haligtree and you will find, the one and only, THE WOMAN I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF! After beating her, there will be a big flower in her boss arena. Stab said flower with our needle, and we have our product! Since it's a very special needle, you'll need to go and ask the Dragonlord himself to inject you with it. He doesn't like doing it, so knock him out first. And done! The voices of frenzy are now gone and now you can be an ordinary Elden Lord, while your dearest maiden, Melina, has survived! ...she doesn't really care about this however. She gets mad at you for getting the frenzied flame in the first place. But it is A-OKAY! BECAUSE YOU JUST SAVED YOUR WOMAN! (i have no idea why i wrote this, maybe its because i did this on my latest run out of boredom)
maybe not the artist's intention, but i see some slight ambiguity in who is actually speaking just based on who the speech bubble is pointing to. makes the piece more poignant for me, with this interpretation.
This piece radiates an intense aura of betrayal.
Because that's exactly what "saving" Melina is lol
“I saved your life, please respond”
The question of the frenzied flame ending; what are you willing to sacrifice to save your beloved, even against their will?
After playing some more and paying more attention to the world, I realize that allowing Melina to burn herself is the best for her, even if you pick the Frenzied Flame ending to "save" her. In the Church where you fight Vyke, you can see his Maiden is sitting there dead in a chair, no blood or anything. He took away her purpose for living, so she just sat down and waited to die. Melina isn't an actual Maiden, but you're still deliberately going against her wishes. If you really want to do the Frenzied Flame ending, but care about her (as much as you can for a video game character), it's best to let her die, and not know that it was for nothing.
“No. You denied me my purpose.”
Thank you Frenzied Dead Cells guy
Imagining an entire dialogue trying to apologize to Melina for taking away her destiny but your love for her is too strong to sacrifice her after going through so much together. This is so sad.
i made her sacrifice herself and then went to embrace the 3 fingers😌
Yaaaaas!!!! The art I’ve been dying for. Absolutely the reason I did it lol.
Love this!
I know it’s a big ask but please let me fight her in the dlc. 🙏🙏
I actually wont let her be sacrificed, even if that is what she wants, i mean lets assume the tarnished absolutely hates the world and wants destroy it, while in his quest to world destruction, he had a companion who upon realizing what he wants to do, they start telling them how important life is and how beautiful it is sometimes, lets say the tarnished started to change his mind a bit and wants to give life another chance, JUST for that companion want to be sacrificed to save the world even though there is another way, No i will save them so that they can show them this "important and beautiful life" they cant just tell them all that and then proceed to sacrifice themselves and spare themselves from the hardship of living and destruction when they could have been saved, because in the end, death is merciful, life isn't
Honestly with this ending i wouldnt mind if she killed me. Its a tit for tat thing. She gave me a honda I give her my life. Also if you interpret it as saving her…youre actually doing it for your own self righteousness. She made it very clear what she wanted to do in her mission and you messed it up. Taking the one goal she was so close to accomplishing away from her is pretty fucked up ahha Talk about selfish tarnish ><