Good luck them killing any dragons without the one actually able to kill dragons.
They are the dragonborns support crew, ousting the one they are supposed to support.
Delphine when she finds out being a member of the blades isnt just indiscriminately killing Dragons and knife ears (all of the sudden she doesnt want to be one)
After many playthroughs of considering Braith a little piece of shit bully, I overheard her conversations with her parents. Now everything is so clear... and I consider her parents pieces of shit, not her. :-P
This is the crazy, funny, but sadly realistic stuff i hope they dont decide to "clean up". This makes the world feel real. Man im ngl im worried es 6 will be stripped of all the more "controversial" stuff. When i found out starfield wasnt a space epic with different payable alien races each starting off on there own planet and was just plain ole human stuff i seriously expected at least there would be some space whore houses or strip clubs, just more adult themes cuz its humans in space the type of stuff that would be gling down would be nuts. All type of human trafficking and gang wars and seedy planets, etc. Morrowind had that strip club in suran lol
Yeah this is off topic lol
imagine being dragon free for thousands of years with the biggest current threat being the thalmor and as soon as the dragons return you get a high elf dragonborn I’d kill myself
"I signed up literally only to kill dragons" - A person who joined when dragons literally did not exist and there was no drsgonborn Emperor to defend.
This asshole is just pissed off she doesn't get to be in charge of the secret police with full benefits and 0 responsibility anymore.
Nah fr. I’m sitting here like “…you realize that by dragons, you’re indirectly helping me anyways right? Like if I just wander by a dragon corpse I’ll eat its soul and do none of the work.”
Unless they’d willingly stop slaying dragons to prove a point. Idiots.
I wish they gave you at least some semblance of an option to hear out Pathurnaax and have a high enough persuasion to convince them to let him live and March with you to kill Alduin. Never sat right with me.
Yeah they don't give an actual explanation. They just keep saying "justice demands he die." Esbern says it like 3 times in one conversation. But that doesn't mean anything! You can't just say justice demands he die without backing it up with something.
This is such a problem with how the whole situation in presented in-game. The truth is that Parthurnaax was an oppressive and destructive force of death and misery for humanity for centuries. He's literally Alduin's right-hand man for most of existence until he finally decides to turn against him. Suggesting he should be executed for his crimes against humanity despite his change of heart is no different than suggesting someone like Hitler or Mengele should be executed if they were discovered to have lived and "changed their ways" decades later.
The game itself does a horrible job of conveying this though. It presents P-Nax as this wise, old grandfather figure and barely even mentions the atrocities he committed against humanity as the right-hand of the World Eater himself. I think that's why do many people don't understand just how valid Delphine and Esbern's perspective is. They aren't necessarily wrong, the game just doesn't illustrate their point of view well at all.
It's also annoying how much shit people give Delphine when *Parthurnaax himself* is like "Oh yeah, I really, really want to murder all of you every single day, and it takes every single fiber of my mental strength from the second I wake up each morning to stop myself from doing that." Delphine's whole point is that over an eternity, the chances of P-Nax deciding to go back to his true nature and start murdering everyone is fairly likely, and he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices. Which P-Nax himself says is true! So like, yeah, okay, maybe her point isn't very *nice*, but the idea that she's some kind of idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about is so unfair and completely misses the whole point of the debate in the first place.
Chances are Delphine is probably right and that it's probably safer to just slay P-Nax and prevent the thousands of dead people he'd create if he decided to go all Unabomber on everyone. We are endeared to P-Nax because he helps us, but the idea that he *isn't* a massive threat to all of humanity is flat out wrong. Delphine isn't wrong for being afraid of him, nor wanting to prevent future death and destruction by nipping it in the bud now. Who knows if a dragonborn strong enough to stop him and save the world will still be around when P-Nax does decide to go nuts and kill everyone?
It's not like Hitler or Mengele. Parthurnaax is born evil. He didn't slowly slide into evil, he came into existence that way and overcame it with good. As he says himself, “What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” ~ Paarthurnax, Skyrim
Yeah, he might be a threat. But he also could be a boone to civilization. Just as he might be capable of doing great evil, he is also capable of doing great good and I am not one to slay beings for whom they might become.
Okay but like... lets do a quick cost-benefit analysis on the pros and cons of what P-Nax offers humanity:
The good:
He can help teach dragons a peaceful means of existing with humans and how to overcome their nature. He can also teach old men on a mountain to fix the weather. Great.
The Bad:
He decides to go back to his true nature and decides it's time for humanity to be subjugated again. He murders thousands or even millions of people and absolutely obliterates all of human society because there is no longer a Dragonborn alive to stop him. The amount of death, suffering, and destruction that is brought into the world is incalculable, and humanity goes back to suffering under the thumb of the dragon cult, this time with P-Nax in charge and able to avoid the one, singular mistake Alduin overlooked that led to his defeat.
The downside here is *significantly* worse than the upside. It's *much* safer to just kill him now and nip the problem in the bud while it's still doable. Who knows if in 4,000 years there will be a hero strong enough to kill him when it becomes a necessity.
> “What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
Honestly? To be born good. P-Nax himself is very clear that he struggles every single day to overcome his evil nature. That doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence that he's going to be able to hold off his true nature forever. Dragons live eternal lives, and eternity is a *long* fucking time. The probability that he will eventually succumb to his true nature is extremely high, almost infinitely likely, since we're talking about eternity here. Sure, *maybe* that won't happen, but that's an extremely risky gamble considering the amount of death and destruction this single being can cause if he so chooses.
> I am not one to slay beings for whom they might become.
Tell that to the thousands or millions of people P-Nax murders, tortures, or subjugates 40,000 years from now because he has another change of heart and there is no longer anyone around to stop him.
Again, just as he might kill/subjugate thousands, he might also save thousands. Eternity is a long time, maybe he'll do good for an eternity, then do bad for an eternity, and so on and so forth. The Dragons aren't the only threat to Tamriel. An army of well meaning Dragons could probably take on a situation, like in Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Who's to say that they won't be invaluable to the future of Tamriel. They certainly would help more than the blades could. Paarthurnax is like me, struggles with the temptation to consume all before him but understands there is greater benefit in assisting and aiding others. His quote shaped my worldview and helped me see meaning in those around me, and by extension, meaning in myself. I just cannot bring myself to kill him when I struggled with what good even was until I met him.
I mean, that's a fair point, I'll give you that.
But, I don't think it changes the fact that it's also fair to suggest that the risk of "letting the chips fall where they mad" so to speak, is too great to allow that potential future to play out. Remember, my original point here isn't that Delphine and Esbern are *for sure correct* but simply that they have a valid point and aren't morons for being concerned and believing that he is too dangerous to be left alive, or that he needs to be punished for his past sins.
I usually don't kill P-Nax myself. But I do think it's unfair how people act like they don't have a valid point of view for this matter. Their perspective is pretty valid even if you think it's flawed or wrong.
Not to say that being isolated on a mountain, feeling how his brothers are killed one by one by the dragonborn and his descendants (if there's any) could bring him to madness, and that'd be far worse than him just succumbing to his instincts.
Having said that, is not a black or grey decision, but you made a great point that Delphine and the blades are not just some kind of dragonphobic idiots that just want to kill dragons because centuries ago they causes suffering to humanity. They are both trying to punish him for his crimes and preventing in the only way they know it's possible that a dragon goes wild and subjugates humankind (and the other races) again.
Sheogorath succumbed to madness. It doesn't seem that bad. Who's to say that madness will be evil and not just eating every third cheese wheel he finds?
Except that isn't Delphine's argument. She explicitly says it doesn't matter whether or not Paarthurnax actually repented and turned against Alduin because he thought it was the right thing to do. I doubt she knows about this dominating urge Paarthurnax feels, because she never fucking mentions it. It's all about past crimes, nothing about the future. Paarthurnax has been peaceful for thousands of years, as a dragon. It's more like if Hitler showed up today and it turned out he was leading a prosperous and progressive nation, and had been since his disappearance.
Even if that's true, which I don't agree that it is, that's still entirely valid, though? Don't you think that if we discovered Hitler was still alive and running a prosperous town somewhere in Argentina that he still deserves to be executed for, you know, the whole Holocaust thing? Just because a mass murderer repents doesn't mean they get a "get out of jail free" card for their past crimes. That bill still needs to be payed. You still need to be punished for those crimes.
That's also a bad argument since P-Nax is *not* running a prosperous nation. He's literally just sitting on top of a mountain waking up every day and wrestling with his natural urge to murder everyone. The chances of his *true nature*, which he admits is destruction, death, and subjugation, taking over at some point in the next infinity amount of years is extremely high. He himself admits he has to fight that urge every single morning. That doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence.
>Paarthurnax has been peaceful for thousands of years, as a dragon.
That's literally nothing to a dragon. Those few thousand years are a drop in the bucket of his life compared against the time he spent killing and subjugating humans before the Dragon War. He has spent a lot more of his life committing terrible atrocities against humanity than he has being peaceful. Eternity is a very hard concept to really wrap your head around, but that's the true life cycle of a dragon, so even thousands of years isn't really all that much time for them.
> I doubt she knows about this dominating urge Paarthurnax feels, because she never fucking mentions it. It's all about past crimes, nothing about the future.
This, in my opinion, is a flaw of the game, not an actual representation of her ideas. It seems very likely to me that the Dragonborn would have told Delphine all about his encounter with P-Nax, and everything he said about his true nature and about his history. It's safe to assume that just because the literal words aren't spoken in-game, that doesn't mean she isn't aware of that information. Nor that she isn't worried about what P-Nax will do millennia into the future.
BGS's writers generally approach these kinds of difficult philosophical discussions with all the nuance of a sledgehammer, so I'm not surprised the actual in-game portrayal of this debate is not a full encapsulation of the *true* moral quandary they're trying to present. But even if it were, it doesn't change that fact that P-Nax *does* deserve to be punished for *literal millennia* of killing, torturing, and subjugating humans.
Yeah. Instead it was just a binary choice between a character you like but is ultimately pointless and a faceless soulless faction with semi useful gameplay applications.
she's probably a plant. They just leave behind the worst and most incompetent blade in the organization's history to twist it into something unrecognisable and damage the chances of them rebuilding properly
Was that fun to other players? I liked to doom and gloom in Skyrim, and it made me excited for where the game was gonna head next (hoping for a return to glory kind of thing).
see if she wasnt barking orders at us and making stupid decisions without our input maybe i’d feel upset losing her as an ally. for her to do all that and then be like “we decided if you dont wanna kill this dragon who helped you multiple times and much more than we did, we dont wanna be your friend anymore”, she’s completely overestimated her worth to me and i don’t need allies who give me ultimatums to get their way.
She’s honestly Skyrim’s Preston Garvey. You save their faction from destruction, they gives you a superficial title as leader of their faction, then spend the rest of the game bossing you around. Although at least Preston doesn’t force you to murder someone that’s done nothing but help you.
What’s she ever wrong about in game though. I mean even in this instance parthunaax agrees with her. If you talk to him he is like “oh yeah by instinct I am a genocidal war criminal who will kill you all, I fight that temptation every day and have committed horrible sins in the past, I don’t blame you”
She’s entirely wrong about Thalmor guilt in the dragon crisis and is hard to dissuade even though she has no proof. She’s wrong about the Greybeads not being helpful. And whether she’s right or wrong about Paarthurnax is up for debate. Most of the fanbase doesn’t agree with her.
Well she says that the Blades were originally dragon slayers and that they served the Dragonborn because they *also* slayed dragons.
Since you refuse to kill Partysnax she’s implying your ignoring your Dragonborn duties
they hunted dragons over 1500 years before Skyrim. After that, they worked as Imperial servants. Regardless of any retcons done by ESO they definitely didn't hunt any dragons during the entire 3rd Era or 4th Era, so over 600 years.
She is just trying to reinvent Blades, because for the past 2 centuries they have wandered without purpose.
That's the bigger sin imo.
Wanting P-Nax to be executed is a fair view in my eyes. Yeah, he turned traitor and helped liberate humanity, but he also *subjugated* humanity for centuries before that. How many people did P-Nax burn, eat, slaughter, and kill before he decided to change his ways?
Imagine if we found out Hitler had actually been alive this whole time and was living in some tiny Argentinian town running an orphanage for Jewish children. He is discovered and espouses how he changed his views and no longer holds any hate for anyone in his heart and how he just wants to help people now until he dies peacefully in his sleep. Do you really think it would be unfair to suggest he still should be executed for his crimes against humanity? Because that's pretty much exactly what happened with P-Nax.
But, at the same time, the Blades don't serve vengeance. They serve the Dragonborn, and so as Dragonborn, if I make the decision that he should live, then they should have to respect that. I empathize with and completely understand their point of view, and I don't disparage anyone who thinks P-Nax deserves to die for his crimes against humanity. But ultimately the Blades have a duty to serve the Dragonborn, and anything that goes against that philosophy is open treason against the Blades order itself.
Bro parthunaax is a dragon built for domination and destruction, but represses his natural instinct to live a life of peace every day. The blades believe that because dragons are immortal it’s impossible for him to live for the rest of eternity in peace. But that’s like saying an addict shouldn’t try to stop because they have 60-70 years left and that’s too much time to not do drugs. If you’re strong willed enough you can do anything, and there are not many with a stronger will that parthunaax
They may be right. Eternity is a long time.
But paarthunax while a powerful dragon, isn't Alduin the world eater. He would be a catastrophe but one the world could heal from.
And when he returned since there would be no dragonborn to stop him he'd likely return to his senses. And feel even more guilt.
Paarthurnax is second only to Alduin himself. He only turned over a new leaf out of fear because he was worried alduin
Was plotting to murder him. Dragons are immortal and exist outside of the normal flow of time so it's literally been a blink of an eye for him since that went down, he was just as cruel and evil as his brother was prior. Doing 5 minutes of good does not erase doing millennia of bad. Instead of taking his penance he ran and hid and worked through others from the shadows so to speak because he knew he was guilty but did not want to face consequences. I don't think it's an accident that you are possibly the only being in existence as the last dragonborn who is capable of dishing out those consequences and you just happen to meet him face to face at a key moment in Time.
I mean he’s been on the throat of the world in solitude for at minimum 4 and a half millennia. That’s not five minutes even to a dragon. They have a different perception of time but thousands of years aren’t a blink. Not to mention by your metric the cruelty also only lasted 3 minutes from his perspective, so either way you slice it it’s not a fair judgment.
Not exactly. I never kill Paarthurnax, so this is just a point to be explained. Their stance is that only a dragonborn can kill a dragon permanently, and Alduin has the ability to resurrect dragons the blades killed on their own. If TLD dies and no more dragonborns exist to permanently kill a dragon, any living dragon is a potential threat to existence.
A thread that lived around 5k years, co-founded Greybeards and led them on the Way of the Voice, never killed a human since then, was the one who helped humans to defeat Alduin.
Tbh, a real threat to the Empire and Dragonborn are altmers and daedra, with whom blades don't rush to deal with (they do nothing at all)
Parthunaax already committed atrocities.
Like a school shooter wouldn’t get cleared of mass murder because they became a monk and evaded justice for years.
He didn't just become a Monk. He betrayed his own kind, helped teach humanity to shout and went on a self imposed exile. He's part of the reason why humanity ultimately was able to banish and defeat Alduin.
The BIG difference between paarthurnax and a drug addict is when he relapses theres going to be mass genocide, and good luck dealing with him when the last dragonborn is dead in 60 years or less.
Kicking the can down the road is exactly what the ancient nords did with alduin, and it bit them in the ass a few thousand years later.
Killing a dragon that isn't Alduin is non-trivial, but doable for regular mortals. Many of those dead dragons Alduin goes around reviving were not killed by a Dragonborn, but by mortals (The Blades for a lot of them). And with Alduin out of the picture, when you put a dragon down they're going to stay down (it's at least implied that only Alduin can revive his kin).
Paarthurnaax going nuts would be a big problem, but not one that you *need* a Dragonborn to fix. You *might* need an actual "Hero" but those aren't exactly unheard of in Tamriel, and tend to show up just when you need them.
If anything a regular mortal killing him is better. Alduin will return and will revive him one way or another (either to torture him or to try to convince him to rejoin him) and while that *might* make him a threat to humanity there’s also a chance that he gives humanity a way out again.
If anything, if he’s allowed to coexist with humanity, and allowed to help humanity, it could better prepare them for Alduin’s eventual return.
And he will return. He’s been defeated but he still has to eat the world at the end of this kalpa. Also he’s literally akatosh/shor, isn’t he? Can’t really kill a god, just banish him. That always confused me though, like how “Jesus is god.” How can jesus be his own son? Confusing
You want him dead, you do it. If you think your reasoning is so good and just you can convince him to lay down for the sword.
Or are you a coward who doesn't actually have faith in her reasoning?
Honestly. Nothing she does is needed, we could have found out everything without Alduin's wall, and just asked the Greybeards from the start.
The Greybeards wouldn't tell you because they believe if it's the end of the world, then it should end. Paarthunax has to personally tell them to let you up to speak with him after all.
You dishonor your oath as a Blade by not respecting the Dragonborn's decisions and remaining loyal to them even if you personally disagree. Paarthurnax has been up on that mountain for centuries. Did that stop the Blades from serving the Septim dynasty? And don't give me any shit about "they didn't know." The Blades were the Empire's spies for over 400 years. Considering how easy it was for *you* to find out about Paarthurnax, despite a significant lack of resources and allies, there's no way the agents in Skyrim hundreds of years ago *didn't* know about the wise old dragon at the Throat of the World.
If you were being honest, Delphine, you'd admit this has nothing to do with oaths or honor or the Blades as a whole, and everything to do with your personal prejudices, bitterness, and hatred. And worse yet, you bully Esbern into agreeing with you. You know he's been a lonely old man for a long time. You know you're his last connection to the time before the Blades fell, not to mention his only friend. And you're heartlessly using that as leverage to force him to take your side on the Paarthurnax issue.
As if all that isn't bad enough, you're also a coward. If you want Paarthurnax dead so bad, why don't *you* kill him? Only a Dragonborn can devour a dragon's soul, but without Alduin around to resurrect him, killing Paarthurnax conventionally would basically be the same thing. Except you know you can't beat him. So you try to strong-arm the Dragonborn, YOUR BOSS, into doing it for you. And then you have the gall to refuse him your service and assistance if he doesn't. You are SWORN to serve the Dragonborn. That is not contingent on the Dragonborn acting how you think they should act.
You are a liar, a traitor, a coward, and an oathbreaker, Delphine. And as far as I'm concerned, you should go back to being a nondescript tavern wench rather than continue to curse the world with your vendetta of arrogance.
Actually Delphine’s whole schtick is that she left the Blades *because* she felt the blades abandoned their duty as dragonslayers. She didn’t want to serve the Emperor or Dragonborn simply because she’s duty-bound to them specifically. So when she get mad you won’t kill Partysnax she’s getting mad that your abandoning your duties as Dragonborn because she feels it’s your duty as a dragonslayer
Okay… but Delphine is like 40 or 50 years old. Dragons weren’t even a thing until a week ago during the in-game time frame.
She joined the Blades hundreds of years after dragons being gone.
That’s like going to work for Boeing right now and start pushing for commercial passenger prop-planes because that’s their “original” purpose.
And look at the timeline, the Great War with the Dominion *started* in 4e171. It is 4e201. Even assuming she joined the Blades the DAY BEFORE the war began, she was probably a teenager! And hasn't matured a day since.
Delphine is such an idiot; more concerned with her vendetta of hatred than her mission of supporting the Dragonborn. She deserves to be FUS'd off the mountain.
She's a terribly written character. Her sudden zeal to kill dragons doesn't even make sense, it's literally ancient history; she was part of a spy network, with a bone to pick with the Thalmor.
So go kill him then. Oh wait, you can't? That's what I thought. So long as I am the one doing the killing, then I decide who its done to.
In the meantime, get back to work. This temple still looks like a goddamn tomb.
Delphine can go take a long walk off a very short pier. Damn woman got on my nerves like no tomorrow. How are you going to be part of the Blades, where you're supposed to serve *me*, and tell me what to do? Nah fam, I'm gonna chill with Partysnax, you and Esbern can enjoy being the last two Blades cause I'm not rebuilding your faction.
I let him live, absolutely. The moment they started in with peer pressure and manipulation I was done. If my help was so crucial to what you were doing, you wouldn't be so fast to hold everything up simply because you want bloodshed. I was done with the Blades for that and every subsequent playthrough.
Also, why is everyone so *literal* in their interpretation of the name Last Dragonborn.
Yes, you are DURING SKYRIM. Just like tampon Chuck is currently the Last King Of England.
But to think Akatosh can't *make* more if needed is a joke, limiting the power of Time itself.
If mortals need a Dragonborn, there will be one.
They already dishonor their oaths by treating the Dragonborn as an errand boy. She should be following *your* orders. Hell, especially if you've recruited some of your friends into the Blades.
I’m not killing one of the only friendly dragons I know just because she says so. Screw Delphine and her Blades. I can kill dragons just as easily without them.
All these years later and this never makes sense. I'M THE DRAGONBORN, *YOU* SERVE *ME*! You're breaking your oath already!
I wonder if some day someone can get Todd on an interview where all the questions are related to in-game things along these lines
The biggest problem with delphine is her arrogance in relation to the player. The general rule in these bethesda open world games are that your character is, bar none, an apex predator. Nothing can touch you, and the fun is living that power fantasy.
Then comes delphine who is disrespectful in the extreme and equally arrogant in her belief she can boss you around when by all accounts you are her boss, by blood and by strength of arm.
And because she’s essential you can’t put her in her place. If you want to complete the main quest, you have to put up with her.
Parthurnax is just the final straw. How dare she give you an ultimatum to kill a mentor who has granted you the ability to save the world from a threat nobody else can deal with, when she would have nothing without you.
I use the parthurnax dilemma and the blades never survive that conversation. I kill delphine on the spot for insubordination.
Here's what you all don't realize: the Blades take an oath, and part of that oath involves serving the dragonborn. But, they didn't swear that oath to you, they swore it to someone else long before you came along, and serving the dragonborn is only PART of it.
Why is that important?
When Delphine tells you that the Blades serve the dragonborn, y'all are like John Connor in Terminator 2 when Arnold says that obeying John's orders is "one of my mission parameters". And John has fun with it for a while; but at the end of the movie, Arnold has a higher-level command to destroy himself, and kid-John doesn't have the authority to override that. He even tries, saying "I *order* you not to go!" but it doesn't work, because the actual mission comes first and and getting bossed around by kid-John was always second priority.
That's how it is with you. The Blades serve the dragonborn as long as the dragonborn serves the higher ideals that the Blades are REALLY sworn to uphold, but once you're not down with that anymore, that's it.
"*I now know why you like the dragon, but it's something I can never do.*" - Delphine
The elder brother lives. If only the essential status did not keep me from ending Delphine’s pathetic life.
Severn’s cool though, bro’s ACTUALLY helpful during the story
I have played through this game eight times. I’ve made different choices throughout. I feel like I’ve made almost every choice you can make. But there is one choice I still refuse to make. I will never kill Paarthurnax.
I’ve never killed party snacks on any play through. I simply clean out the blades castle of the armor and weapons, pick pocket all of Delphine’s armor and weaps then leave after yeeting her over the side with Fus Roh Da.
i refuse to kill hom simply because his VA is Mario, Luigi, Wario and Waluigi
https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/video-games/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim/Paarthurnax/
I thought it was part of the main quest so little 13 year old me spent like 15 minutes pacing back and forth in front of him apologizing for what I was about to do. Felt awful afterwards and the Greybeards hated me
No he deserves to die. The entire bullshit quote that fanboys like "What is better: to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” is like saying that we should let Josef Mengele live after the war because he decided to "become good". Paarthurnax was the right hand of dragon Hitler and deserves no mercy.
As far as can be seen, you could argue that he was simply trying to escape the consequences of his actions and avoid justice for his crimes.
But he seems to have gone down the path of true justice and redemption, seeking to change himself and ensure that what happened never would again and atone for it in the best way he could.
That's what justice is about, Atonement for your crimes and then trying to fix what you messed up.
Refusal to try to right your wrong, especially for something as potentially heinous as being a dragon Tyrant, absolutely should have resulted in their death. But he helped found the order of the Grey Beards and seems to have found inner peace.
There really should've been an option to kick Delphine put of the Blades. The Blades are sworn to serve the Dragonborn. She's already breaking her oath by trying to exile the dragonborn for not killing a specific dragon.
Paarthurnax is a bro, he managed to overcome his dragon nature and help humans to fight his own kind but we can't ignore the fact he was the liutenant of Alduin and was the author of many atrocities against humans himself. So, for me, Paarthurnax deserve to die, because a good action can't erase a life of crimes, it's a pity to kill him but it's the most rightful decision for this character
Not to mention that dragons dont experience the flow of time as mortals do(his own words) so him being a good boi is quite literally the dragon version of behaving for 5 whole minutes
They are not your homies, they are your servants that directly disobey you and blackmail you all the while they are oath sworn to you.
Nothing but traitors
I kill.partysnax every time. Hes a war criminal. I don't consider him being a good boy for what amounts to 5 minutes for a timeless dragon to override the horrors he wrought before thwt.
Absolutely.
Let me just MURDER this pacifistic Dragon who's been living in SECLUSION for possibly MILLIONS of YEARS, ALONE, just because he's a Dragon. Not to mention get rid of one of the oldest, most wise, and humbling living things in this plane just because you think all Dragons are the same.
You know who you sound like? You sound like the Thalmor. You know, the people who slaughtered your order because you assisted the Empire too well, and they didn't like that. You can't get over the fact that a DRAGON was helping your BOSS and now you want to re-establish DOMINANCE by ***MAKING YOUR BOSS***, MURDER a dear Friend and Mentor. And you're fully expecting them to do this. While you and your little CLIQUE are outnumbered, because not only is the Dragonborn (lore-wise) a one-man Imperial Army, but also, ALL THE NEW BLADE RECRUITS ARE ALLIES OF THE DRAGONBORN. ***YOUR BOSS.***
So forgive me for not following your every whim while I hunt the DRAGONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY CAUSING ISSUES, and keep my dear Friend and Mentor, and maybe even a Father Figure, alive and well protected.
I dislike all dragons, but fortunately for parthy i hate the blades more, so what if parthy was the general to alduin, if we are to believe kalpa's and constant rebirth of nirn are real, then only this cycle was when parthy decided to be bad, so y'know this amounted to like a 5 minute temper tantrum in the grand scheme of things.
Wouldn't it be something if you kill Alduin and chose to kill Paarthurnax and the Blades see no more use for you and try to whack you? That would actually be a cool storyline, modders get on it!
I honestly hate how much delphine is brought up. 99% of the player base does not pay attention and it is shown every time she is discussed. People always miss her dialogue, what she actually means, and what the other people around her say of her.
Parthunaax Dilemma is always in my mod load order, the one time I killed him to see what happened I felt so bad I had to go back to my last save that was multiple hours earlier
I installed a mod that allowed me to let him live so the quest would complete. It never sat right with me how that was the final task of the main story. Unless they added an option later on after I played it, I always thought it was stupid of them making it the only way to end it all.
I never killed Paarthurnax (or Parodontax, as I call him). He helped much more than the blades. I would also never join the Imperial faction in the war
I love how the blades are supposed to serve the Dragonborn and yet she’s telling you what to do… never sat right with me
Good luck them killing any dragons without the one actually able to kill dragons. They are the dragonborns support crew, ousting the one they are supposed to support.
Right? "We've been searching for a purpose ever since..." *Finds purpose* "Not like that!"
Delphine when she finds out being a member of the blades isnt just indiscriminately killing Dragons and knife ears (all of the sudden she doesnt want to be one)
Is there literally any character in this game who isn't violently prejudiced?
Probably the children you can adopt? You can be any race and they'll love you regardless cuz you're giving them a home.
I love that you said /probably/ the children. Like, we hope, but we aren't sure yet.
Skyrim children can call the Dark Brotherhood on you, after all. :-D
Are we just not gonna include Braithe???
After many playthroughs of considering Braith a little piece of shit bully, I overheard her conversations with her parents. Now everything is so clear... and I consider her parents pieces of shit, not her. :-P
This is the elder scrolls, everyone is racist
This is the crazy, funny, but sadly realistic stuff i hope they dont decide to "clean up". This makes the world feel real. Man im ngl im worried es 6 will be stripped of all the more "controversial" stuff. When i found out starfield wasnt a space epic with different payable alien races each starting off on there own planet and was just plain ole human stuff i seriously expected at least there would be some space whore houses or strip clubs, just more adult themes cuz its humans in space the type of stuff that would be gling down would be nuts. All type of human trafficking and gang wars and seedy planets, etc. Morrowind had that strip club in suran lol Yeah this is off topic lol
Wait a year or so, if that. The mods will put them in
My dragonborn isn't even void of prejudice! Filthy high elves
imagine being dragon free for thousands of years with the biggest current threat being the thalmor and as soon as the dragons return you get a high elf dragonborn I’d kill myself
"I signed up literally only to kill dragons" - A person who joined when dragons literally did not exist and there was no drsgonborn Emperor to defend. This asshole is just pissed off she doesn't get to be in charge of the secret police with full benefits and 0 responsibility anymore.
Nah fr. I’m sitting here like “…you realize that by dragons, you’re indirectly helping me anyways right? Like if I just wander by a dragon corpse I’ll eat its soul and do none of the work.” Unless they’d willingly stop slaying dragons to prove a point. Idiots.
I wish they gave you at least some semblance of an option to hear out Pathurnaax and have a high enough persuasion to convince them to let him live and March with you to kill Alduin. Never sat right with me.
Or at least flesh them out to tell us why they can’t just give up killing partysnax
Yeah they don't give an actual explanation. They just keep saying "justice demands he die." Esbern says it like 3 times in one conversation. But that doesn't mean anything! You can't just say justice demands he die without backing it up with something.
This is such a problem with how the whole situation in presented in-game. The truth is that Parthurnaax was an oppressive and destructive force of death and misery for humanity for centuries. He's literally Alduin's right-hand man for most of existence until he finally decides to turn against him. Suggesting he should be executed for his crimes against humanity despite his change of heart is no different than suggesting someone like Hitler or Mengele should be executed if they were discovered to have lived and "changed their ways" decades later. The game itself does a horrible job of conveying this though. It presents P-Nax as this wise, old grandfather figure and barely even mentions the atrocities he committed against humanity as the right-hand of the World Eater himself. I think that's why do many people don't understand just how valid Delphine and Esbern's perspective is. They aren't necessarily wrong, the game just doesn't illustrate their point of view well at all. It's also annoying how much shit people give Delphine when *Parthurnaax himself* is like "Oh yeah, I really, really want to murder all of you every single day, and it takes every single fiber of my mental strength from the second I wake up each morning to stop myself from doing that." Delphine's whole point is that over an eternity, the chances of P-Nax deciding to go back to his true nature and start murdering everyone is fairly likely, and he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices. Which P-Nax himself says is true! So like, yeah, okay, maybe her point isn't very *nice*, but the idea that she's some kind of idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about is so unfair and completely misses the whole point of the debate in the first place. Chances are Delphine is probably right and that it's probably safer to just slay P-Nax and prevent the thousands of dead people he'd create if he decided to go all Unabomber on everyone. We are endeared to P-Nax because he helps us, but the idea that he *isn't* a massive threat to all of humanity is flat out wrong. Delphine isn't wrong for being afraid of him, nor wanting to prevent future death and destruction by nipping it in the bud now. Who knows if a dragonborn strong enough to stop him and save the world will still be around when P-Nax does decide to go nuts and kill everyone?
It's not like Hitler or Mengele. Parthurnaax is born evil. He didn't slowly slide into evil, he came into existence that way and overcame it with good. As he says himself, “What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” ~ Paarthurnax, Skyrim Yeah, he might be a threat. But he also could be a boone to civilization. Just as he might be capable of doing great evil, he is also capable of doing great good and I am not one to slay beings for whom they might become.
Okay but like... lets do a quick cost-benefit analysis on the pros and cons of what P-Nax offers humanity: The good: He can help teach dragons a peaceful means of existing with humans and how to overcome their nature. He can also teach old men on a mountain to fix the weather. Great. The Bad: He decides to go back to his true nature and decides it's time for humanity to be subjugated again. He murders thousands or even millions of people and absolutely obliterates all of human society because there is no longer a Dragonborn alive to stop him. The amount of death, suffering, and destruction that is brought into the world is incalculable, and humanity goes back to suffering under the thumb of the dragon cult, this time with P-Nax in charge and able to avoid the one, singular mistake Alduin overlooked that led to his defeat. The downside here is *significantly* worse than the upside. It's *much* safer to just kill him now and nip the problem in the bud while it's still doable. Who knows if in 4,000 years there will be a hero strong enough to kill him when it becomes a necessity. > “What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” Honestly? To be born good. P-Nax himself is very clear that he struggles every single day to overcome his evil nature. That doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence that he's going to be able to hold off his true nature forever. Dragons live eternal lives, and eternity is a *long* fucking time. The probability that he will eventually succumb to his true nature is extremely high, almost infinitely likely, since we're talking about eternity here. Sure, *maybe* that won't happen, but that's an extremely risky gamble considering the amount of death and destruction this single being can cause if he so chooses. > I am not one to slay beings for whom they might become. Tell that to the thousands or millions of people P-Nax murders, tortures, or subjugates 40,000 years from now because he has another change of heart and there is no longer anyone around to stop him.
Again, just as he might kill/subjugate thousands, he might also save thousands. Eternity is a long time, maybe he'll do good for an eternity, then do bad for an eternity, and so on and so forth. The Dragons aren't the only threat to Tamriel. An army of well meaning Dragons could probably take on a situation, like in Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Who's to say that they won't be invaluable to the future of Tamriel. They certainly would help more than the blades could. Paarthurnax is like me, struggles with the temptation to consume all before him but understands there is greater benefit in assisting and aiding others. His quote shaped my worldview and helped me see meaning in those around me, and by extension, meaning in myself. I just cannot bring myself to kill him when I struggled with what good even was until I met him.
I mean, that's a fair point, I'll give you that. But, I don't think it changes the fact that it's also fair to suggest that the risk of "letting the chips fall where they mad" so to speak, is too great to allow that potential future to play out. Remember, my original point here isn't that Delphine and Esbern are *for sure correct* but simply that they have a valid point and aren't morons for being concerned and believing that he is too dangerous to be left alive, or that he needs to be punished for his past sins. I usually don't kill P-Nax myself. But I do think it's unfair how people act like they don't have a valid point of view for this matter. Their perspective is pretty valid even if you think it's flawed or wrong.
Not to say that being isolated on a mountain, feeling how his brothers are killed one by one by the dragonborn and his descendants (if there's any) could bring him to madness, and that'd be far worse than him just succumbing to his instincts. Having said that, is not a black or grey decision, but you made a great point that Delphine and the blades are not just some kind of dragonphobic idiots that just want to kill dragons because centuries ago they causes suffering to humanity. They are both trying to punish him for his crimes and preventing in the only way they know it's possible that a dragon goes wild and subjugates humankind (and the other races) again.
Sheogorath succumbed to madness. It doesn't seem that bad. Who's to say that madness will be evil and not just eating every third cheese wheel he finds?
Except that isn't Delphine's argument. She explicitly says it doesn't matter whether or not Paarthurnax actually repented and turned against Alduin because he thought it was the right thing to do. I doubt she knows about this dominating urge Paarthurnax feels, because she never fucking mentions it. It's all about past crimes, nothing about the future. Paarthurnax has been peaceful for thousands of years, as a dragon. It's more like if Hitler showed up today and it turned out he was leading a prosperous and progressive nation, and had been since his disappearance.
Even if that's true, which I don't agree that it is, that's still entirely valid, though? Don't you think that if we discovered Hitler was still alive and running a prosperous town somewhere in Argentina that he still deserves to be executed for, you know, the whole Holocaust thing? Just because a mass murderer repents doesn't mean they get a "get out of jail free" card for their past crimes. That bill still needs to be payed. You still need to be punished for those crimes. That's also a bad argument since P-Nax is *not* running a prosperous nation. He's literally just sitting on top of a mountain waking up every day and wrestling with his natural urge to murder everyone. The chances of his *true nature*, which he admits is destruction, death, and subjugation, taking over at some point in the next infinity amount of years is extremely high. He himself admits he has to fight that urge every single morning. That doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence. >Paarthurnax has been peaceful for thousands of years, as a dragon. That's literally nothing to a dragon. Those few thousand years are a drop in the bucket of his life compared against the time he spent killing and subjugating humans before the Dragon War. He has spent a lot more of his life committing terrible atrocities against humanity than he has being peaceful. Eternity is a very hard concept to really wrap your head around, but that's the true life cycle of a dragon, so even thousands of years isn't really all that much time for them. > I doubt she knows about this dominating urge Paarthurnax feels, because she never fucking mentions it. It's all about past crimes, nothing about the future. This, in my opinion, is a flaw of the game, not an actual representation of her ideas. It seems very likely to me that the Dragonborn would have told Delphine all about his encounter with P-Nax, and everything he said about his true nature and about his history. It's safe to assume that just because the literal words aren't spoken in-game, that doesn't mean she isn't aware of that information. Nor that she isn't worried about what P-Nax will do millennia into the future. BGS's writers generally approach these kinds of difficult philosophical discussions with all the nuance of a sledgehammer, so I'm not surprised the actual in-game portrayal of this debate is not a full encapsulation of the *true* moral quandary they're trying to present. But even if it were, it doesn't change that fact that P-Nax *does* deserve to be punished for *literal millennia* of killing, torturing, and subjugating humans.
Lmao. How have I not heard that nickname in all this time. That’s brilliant.
Yeah. Instead it was just a binary choice between a character you like but is ultimately pointless and a faceless soulless faction with semi useful gameplay applications.
This is exactly what I came to say.
The blades in Oblivion were an awesome band of brothers. In Skyrim they're a bunch of arrogant killers.
To be fair, it’s just Delphoney and Eshurl. The Thalmor hunted and killed the rest.
There’s one they missed ;)
she's probably a plant. They just leave behind the worst and most incompetent blade in the organization's history to twist it into something unrecognisable and damage the chances of them rebuilding properly
Oblivion blades were absolute chads.
Almost every Oblivion guild is CHAD AF compared to its Skyrim counteroart
Morrowind Blades were cool as well.
they dont even need shirts, only skooma
Headcanon: Delphine isn't really a blade.
It feels like all factions by the fourth era are in shambles compared to what they were like at one point.
That was deliberate
Was that fun to other players? I liked to doom and gloom in Skyrim, and it made me excited for where the game was gonna head next (hoping for a return to glory kind of thing).
A lot can happen in 200 years.
War and mayhem tends to jade folks but exactly.
Before that, they were this cool spy network that you only ever got tantalizing glimpses of.
We’re they even successful? Like seriously other than Daggerfall I don’t think they’ve done much.
see if she wasnt barking orders at us and making stupid decisions without our input maybe i’d feel upset losing her as an ally. for her to do all that and then be like “we decided if you dont wanna kill this dragon who helped you multiple times and much more than we did, we dont wanna be your friend anymore”, she’s completely overestimated her worth to me and i don’t need allies who give me ultimatums to get their way.
This is why “The Parthurnaax Dilemma” is the best mod to ever exist. You put Esbern and Delphine in their place
Thank you for mentioning this, brb downloading
I never figured why everyone hated Delphine until she told me to kill Parthunax. No way I'm killing a man who helped me out plus he is pretty chill.
She’s honestly Skyrim’s Preston Garvey. You save their faction from destruction, they gives you a superficial title as leader of their faction, then spend the rest of the game bossing you around. Although at least Preston doesn’t force you to murder someone that’s done nothing but help you.
"Dragonborn, another settlement needs your help"
She’s also wrong more often than she’s right and very opinionated. Bad combo.
What’s she ever wrong about in game though. I mean even in this instance parthunaax agrees with her. If you talk to him he is like “oh yeah by instinct I am a genocidal war criminal who will kill you all, I fight that temptation every day and have committed horrible sins in the past, I don’t blame you”
She’s entirely wrong about Thalmor guilt in the dragon crisis and is hard to dissuade even though she has no proof. She’s wrong about the Greybeads not being helpful. And whether she’s right or wrong about Paarthurnax is up for debate. Most of the fanbase doesn’t agree with her.
Well she says that the Blades were originally dragon slayers and that they served the Dragonborn because they *also* slayed dragons. Since you refuse to kill Partysnax she’s implying your ignoring your Dragonborn duties
they hunted dragons over 1500 years before Skyrim. After that, they worked as Imperial servants. Regardless of any retcons done by ESO they definitely didn't hunt any dragons during the entire 3rd Era or 4th Era, so over 600 years. She is just trying to reinvent Blades, because for the past 2 centuries they have wandered without purpose.
Her whole point is that she doesn’t want the Blades to be servants to royals she wasn’t to slay dragons
Then she can try her hand at slaying Parthurnaax but I want no part of that. He made a solid point about choosing to be good, over being born good.
Yeah, it doesn't matter if you kill other dragons that are currently more of threat than paarthurnax is.
That’s what I could never get over. Like I might have been willing to kill Paarthunax but no way I’m going to let my bodyguard tell me what to do.
Delphine never really understood what the Blades were about.
That's the bigger sin imo. Wanting P-Nax to be executed is a fair view in my eyes. Yeah, he turned traitor and helped liberate humanity, but he also *subjugated* humanity for centuries before that. How many people did P-Nax burn, eat, slaughter, and kill before he decided to change his ways? Imagine if we found out Hitler had actually been alive this whole time and was living in some tiny Argentinian town running an orphanage for Jewish children. He is discovered and espouses how he changed his views and no longer holds any hate for anyone in his heart and how he just wants to help people now until he dies peacefully in his sleep. Do you really think it would be unfair to suggest he still should be executed for his crimes against humanity? Because that's pretty much exactly what happened with P-Nax. But, at the same time, the Blades don't serve vengeance. They serve the Dragonborn, and so as Dragonborn, if I make the decision that he should live, then they should have to respect that. I empathize with and completely understand their point of view, and I don't disparage anyone who thinks P-Nax deserves to die for his crimes against humanity. But ultimately the Blades have a duty to serve the Dragonborn, and anything that goes against that philosophy is open treason against the Blades order itself.
If the criminal has TRULY changed and is repentant I don't think vengeance serves anyone. It's a tricky one though not gonna lie.
In a temple dedicated to the player, opened only by the player's own blood. The audacity of this b*tch.
Poor writing or the NPCs are stupid.
Bro parthunaax is a dragon built for domination and destruction, but represses his natural instinct to live a life of peace every day. The blades believe that because dragons are immortal it’s impossible for him to live for the rest of eternity in peace. But that’s like saying an addict shouldn’t try to stop because they have 60-70 years left and that’s too much time to not do drugs. If you’re strong willed enough you can do anything, and there are not many with a stronger will that parthunaax
They may be right. Eternity is a long time. But paarthunax while a powerful dragon, isn't Alduin the world eater. He would be a catastrophe but one the world could heal from. And when he returned since there would be no dragonborn to stop him he'd likely return to his senses. And feel even more guilt.
Paarthurnax is second only to Alduin himself. He only turned over a new leaf out of fear because he was worried alduin Was plotting to murder him. Dragons are immortal and exist outside of the normal flow of time so it's literally been a blink of an eye for him since that went down, he was just as cruel and evil as his brother was prior. Doing 5 minutes of good does not erase doing millennia of bad. Instead of taking his penance he ran and hid and worked through others from the shadows so to speak because he knew he was guilty but did not want to face consequences. I don't think it's an accident that you are possibly the only being in existence as the last dragonborn who is capable of dishing out those consequences and you just happen to meet him face to face at a key moment in Time.
I mean he’s been on the throat of the world in solitude for at minimum 4 and a half millennia. That’s not five minutes even to a dragon. They have a different perception of time but thousands of years aren’t a blink. Not to mention by your metric the cruelty also only lasted 3 minutes from his perspective, so either way you slice it it’s not a fair judgment.
Not exactly. I never kill Paarthurnax, so this is just a point to be explained. Their stance is that only a dragonborn can kill a dragon permanently, and Alduin has the ability to resurrect dragons the blades killed on their own. If TLD dies and no more dragonborns exist to permanently kill a dragon, any living dragon is a potential threat to existence.
A thread that lived around 5k years, co-founded Greybeards and led them on the Way of the Voice, never killed a human since then, was the one who helped humans to defeat Alduin. Tbh, a real threat to the Empire and Dragonborn are altmers and daedra, with whom blades don't rush to deal with (they do nothing at all)
Paarthurnax = Yoshikage Kira???
Only if things he shouts when he attacks are draconic translations of Queen song titles.
Now i'm just imagining Parthunaax singing Don't Stop Me Now while leveling Riften.
Parthunaax already committed atrocities. Like a school shooter wouldn’t get cleared of mass murder because they became a monk and evaded justice for years.
He didn't just become a Monk. He betrayed his own kind, helped teach humanity to shout and went on a self imposed exile. He's part of the reason why humanity ultimately was able to banish and defeat Alduin.
The BIG difference between paarthurnax and a drug addict is when he relapses theres going to be mass genocide, and good luck dealing with him when the last dragonborn is dead in 60 years or less. Kicking the can down the road is exactly what the ancient nords did with alduin, and it bit them in the ass a few thousand years later.
Killing a dragon that isn't Alduin is non-trivial, but doable for regular mortals. Many of those dead dragons Alduin goes around reviving were not killed by a Dragonborn, but by mortals (The Blades for a lot of them). And with Alduin out of the picture, when you put a dragon down they're going to stay down (it's at least implied that only Alduin can revive his kin). Paarthurnaax going nuts would be a big problem, but not one that you *need* a Dragonborn to fix. You *might* need an actual "Hero" but those aren't exactly unheard of in Tamriel, and tend to show up just when you need them.
If anything a regular mortal killing him is better. Alduin will return and will revive him one way or another (either to torture him or to try to convince him to rejoin him) and while that *might* make him a threat to humanity there’s also a chance that he gives humanity a way out again. If anything, if he’s allowed to coexist with humanity, and allowed to help humanity, it could better prepare them for Alduin’s eventual return.
Right? People are sleeping on the benefit he could provide.
And he will return. He’s been defeated but he still has to eat the world at the end of this kalpa. Also he’s literally akatosh/shor, isn’t he? Can’t really kill a god, just banish him. That always confused me though, like how “Jesus is god.” How can jesus be his own son? Confusing
Aren't we forgetting one teensy-weensy, but ever so crucial little, tiny detail? I OWN YOU!
You want him dead, you do it. If you think your reasoning is so good and just you can convince him to lay down for the sword. Or are you a coward who doesn't actually have faith in her reasoning? Honestly. Nothing she does is needed, we could have found out everything without Alduin's wall, and just asked the Greybeards from the start.
The Greybeards wouldn't tell you because they believe if it's the end of the world, then it should end. Paarthunax has to personally tell them to let you up to speak with him after all.
And that another point to paarthurnax too. Love how he scolded them like a mother lol
I installed a mod and uno-reversed carded and killed the blades, bitches thought they can control me when they claim they "serve" the Dragonborn
I use the Paarthurnax Dilemma mod that allows you to tell Delphine exactly where to shove it, and that SHE serves YOU.
I just removed their essential NPC status with the terminal and went berserker. Yours may be a better, more diplomatic alternative
“The Blades serve the Dragonborn… unless they don’t want to” -Delphine
Yea I’m not going to complete the quest and kill Mario
You dishonor your oath as a Blade by not respecting the Dragonborn's decisions and remaining loyal to them even if you personally disagree. Paarthurnax has been up on that mountain for centuries. Did that stop the Blades from serving the Septim dynasty? And don't give me any shit about "they didn't know." The Blades were the Empire's spies for over 400 years. Considering how easy it was for *you* to find out about Paarthurnax, despite a significant lack of resources and allies, there's no way the agents in Skyrim hundreds of years ago *didn't* know about the wise old dragon at the Throat of the World. If you were being honest, Delphine, you'd admit this has nothing to do with oaths or honor or the Blades as a whole, and everything to do with your personal prejudices, bitterness, and hatred. And worse yet, you bully Esbern into agreeing with you. You know he's been a lonely old man for a long time. You know you're his last connection to the time before the Blades fell, not to mention his only friend. And you're heartlessly using that as leverage to force him to take your side on the Paarthurnax issue. As if all that isn't bad enough, you're also a coward. If you want Paarthurnax dead so bad, why don't *you* kill him? Only a Dragonborn can devour a dragon's soul, but without Alduin around to resurrect him, killing Paarthurnax conventionally would basically be the same thing. Except you know you can't beat him. So you try to strong-arm the Dragonborn, YOUR BOSS, into doing it for you. And then you have the gall to refuse him your service and assistance if he doesn't. You are SWORN to serve the Dragonborn. That is not contingent on the Dragonborn acting how you think they should act. You are a liar, a traitor, a coward, and an oathbreaker, Delphine. And as far as I'm concerned, you should go back to being a nondescript tavern wench rather than continue to curse the world with your vendetta of arrogance.
Damn, u/Drafo7 is really pulling out the receipts. Let the man cook
Actually Delphine’s whole schtick is that she left the Blades *because* she felt the blades abandoned their duty as dragonslayers. She didn’t want to serve the Emperor or Dragonborn simply because she’s duty-bound to them specifically. So when she get mad you won’t kill Partysnax she’s getting mad that your abandoning your duties as Dragonborn because she feels it’s your duty as a dragonslayer
Okay… but Delphine is like 40 or 50 years old. Dragons weren’t even a thing until a week ago during the in-game time frame. She joined the Blades hundreds of years after dragons being gone. That’s like going to work for Boeing right now and start pushing for commercial passenger prop-planes because that’s their “original” purpose.
And look at the timeline, the Great War with the Dominion *started* in 4e171. It is 4e201. Even assuming she joined the Blades the DAY BEFORE the war began, she was probably a teenager! And hasn't matured a day since.
Idk, the greybeards are still waiting for me to heed their summons. It's been 5 years. I hope they're still alive. Who tf is partysnax anyway.
Big chill dragon dude. Nice guy, nice talks, bit of a *rough* past. But he’s cool now though!
Like Larry Lawton
Delphine is such an idiot; more concerned with her vendetta of hatred than her mission of supporting the Dragonborn. She deserves to be FUS'd off the mountain.
She's a terribly written character. Her sudden zeal to kill dragons doesn't even make sense, it's literally ancient history; she was part of a spy network, with a bone to pick with the Thalmor.
I've heard others say the same.
Heard any news from the other provinces?
So go kill him then. Oh wait, you can't? That's what I thought. So long as I am the one doing the killing, then I decide who its done to. In the meantime, get back to work. This temple still looks like a goddamn tomb.
oh my god
Delphine can go take a long walk off a very short pier. Damn woman got on my nerves like no tomorrow. How are you going to be part of the Blades, where you're supposed to serve *me*, and tell me what to do? Nah fam, I'm gonna chill with Partysnax, you and Esbern can enjoy being the last two Blades cause I'm not rebuilding your faction.
Your oath not mine. You want that dragon dead you do it.
I let him live, absolutely. The moment they started in with peer pressure and manipulation I was done. If my help was so crucial to what you were doing, you wouldn't be so fast to hold everything up simply because you want bloodshed. I was done with the Blades for that and every subsequent playthrough.
Also, why is everyone so *literal* in their interpretation of the name Last Dragonborn. Yes, you are DURING SKYRIM. Just like tampon Chuck is currently the Last King Of England. But to think Akatosh can't *make* more if needed is a joke, limiting the power of Time itself. If mortals need a Dragonborn, there will be one.
The Graybeards even tell you that there may be more than one DB, they don’t know. They just know that you’re DB.
Wish you had the option to remind Delphine of her place and tell her you ain’t doing anything
They already dishonor their oaths by treating the Dragonborn as an errand boy. She should be following *your* orders. Hell, especially if you've recruited some of your friends into the Blades.
I’m not killing one of the only friendly dragons I know just because she says so. Screw Delphine and her Blades. I can kill dragons just as easily without them.
I killed him once when the game first came out never again
Yup, Parth will outlive Delphine's hate and bring more dragons over to his side. Delphine is narrow-minded and doesn't see the big picture.
All these years later and this never makes sense. I'M THE DRAGONBORN, *YOU* SERVE *ME*! You're breaking your oath already! I wonder if some day someone can get Todd on an interview where all the questions are related to in-game things along these lines
I can kinda see her point, but I specifically let him live to spite Delphine.
The biggest problem with delphine is her arrogance in relation to the player. The general rule in these bethesda open world games are that your character is, bar none, an apex predator. Nothing can touch you, and the fun is living that power fantasy. Then comes delphine who is disrespectful in the extreme and equally arrogant in her belief she can boss you around when by all accounts you are her boss, by blood and by strength of arm. And because she’s essential you can’t put her in her place. If you want to complete the main quest, you have to put up with her. Parthurnax is just the final straw. How dare she give you an ultimatum to kill a mentor who has granted you the ability to save the world from a threat nobody else can deal with, when she would have nothing without you. I use the parthurnax dilemma and the blades never survive that conversation. I kill delphine on the spot for insubordination.
My least favourite character in all of The Elder Scrolls
In my day the Blades were cooler; potential drug-users that killed Dagoths not Dragons. How have the mighty fallen.
Shoutout to mah boi caius
Considering the Blades aren’t much use after she says this, she severely overestimated her worth.
Here's what you all don't realize: the Blades take an oath, and part of that oath involves serving the dragonborn. But, they didn't swear that oath to you, they swore it to someone else long before you came along, and serving the dragonborn is only PART of it. Why is that important? When Delphine tells you that the Blades serve the dragonborn, y'all are like John Connor in Terminator 2 when Arnold says that obeying John's orders is "one of my mission parameters". And John has fun with it for a while; but at the end of the movie, Arnold has a higher-level command to destroy himself, and kid-John doesn't have the authority to override that. He even tries, saying "I *order* you not to go!" but it doesn't work, because the actual mission comes first and and getting bossed around by kid-John was always second priority. That's how it is with you. The Blades serve the dragonborn as long as the dragonborn serves the higher ideals that the Blades are REALLY sworn to uphold, but once you're not down with that anymore, that's it. "*I now know why you like the dragon, but it's something I can never do.*" - Delphine
The elder brother lives. If only the essential status did not keep me from ending Delphine’s pathetic life. Severn’s cool though, bro’s ACTUALLY helpful during the story
Dishonor your oaths? Bitch, I’m Dragonborn. You listen to me. If I deem a dragon as trustworthy, then he’s trustworthy.
The whole time she said that i was like ”YOU DISHONOR YOUR OATHS BY DISOBEYING ME YOU DUMB FUCK”
I have played through this game eight times. I’ve made different choices throughout. I feel like I’ve made almost every choice you can make. But there is one choice I still refuse to make. I will never kill Paarthurnax.
I might even do it just for completeness' sake, if Delphine wasn't such a bossy cunt about it.
Justice cannot exist without the possibility of redemption.
Always. The hell with the Blades.
I’ve never killed party snacks on any play through. I simply clean out the blades castle of the armor and weapons, pick pocket all of Delphine’s armor and weaps then leave after yeeting her over the side with Fus Roh Da.
But yet she dishonors her oath by not continuing to help you. Gotta say, that was some bad writing on Bethesda’s part.
And before anyone comes up with the "wah cwiminal" argument, remember tiber septim, ysgramor and pelinal.
Tiber pelinal.and yagramor arent standing in front of me, partysnax is.
never seen Delphine post a gold spread so i don't let her tell me what to do
Any dragon is just an arrogant farm tool not willing to work. Their souls can be of other use.
Get The Parthuunax Dilemma. Problem solved.
I pretty much always kill Paarthurnax. I just can’t leave that quest on the list, unfinished, just taunting me.
I just turned off her essential status and threw her off a mountain 😂 you don't get to tell me what to do you old harpy.
Why do the blades hate dragons when the emperor turned into a literal fucking dragon?
Bethesda writers are better at lore, than plot. lol
i refuse to kill hom simply because his VA is Mario, Luigi, Wario and Waluigi https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/video-games/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim/Paarthurnax/
yam one mountainous cable boat mourn provide obscene slimy coherent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean if skyrim was like fallout and almost anyone could be killed at anytime we wouldn't have this bitch rolling on our mind for the past 12 years
Ive played dozens and dozens of games and Ive never once killed Paxxy
I installed a mod to let him live
Canon Dovahkiin kills Paarthunax. But I am not canon Dovahkiin and Paarthunax lives until another Dragonborn decides to kill him.
Not yet, but I'm gonna do it once. Just to have explored the game fully.
I just opened the console command and disabled her and her minon.
Dishonor their oath as blades if the help the person they swore to serve ??
I thought it was part of the main quest so little 13 year old me spent like 15 minutes pacing back and forth in front of him apologizing for what I was about to do. Felt awful afterwards and the Greybeards hated me
No he deserves to die. The entire bullshit quote that fanboys like "What is better: to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” is like saying that we should let Josef Mengele live after the war because he decided to "become good". Paarthurnax was the right hand of dragon Hitler and deserves no mercy.
As far as can be seen, you could argue that he was simply trying to escape the consequences of his actions and avoid justice for his crimes. But he seems to have gone down the path of true justice and redemption, seeking to change himself and ensure that what happened never would again and atone for it in the best way he could. That's what justice is about, Atonement for your crimes and then trying to fix what you messed up. Refusal to try to right your wrong, especially for something as potentially heinous as being a dragon Tyrant, absolutely should have resulted in their death. But he helped found the order of the Grey Beards and seems to have found inner peace.
Unpopular opinion but he deserves to die. He was a slaver. I don't care if he is good with us, he was part of the worst crap on humans back in the day
Yes I let him live and I wish Delphine wasn’t essential
The power of mods and console commands
I like how it's 2023, and people are still mad at Delphine.
There really should've been an option to kick Delphine put of the Blades. The Blades are sworn to serve the Dragonborn. She's already breaking her oath by trying to exile the dragonborn for not killing a specific dragon.
I’m pretty sure your oath is to serve me you dummy, not to genocide the dragons.
Paarthurnax is a bro, he managed to overcome his dragon nature and help humans to fight his own kind but we can't ignore the fact he was the liutenant of Alduin and was the author of many atrocities against humans himself. So, for me, Paarthurnax deserve to die, because a good action can't erase a life of crimes, it's a pity to kill him but it's the most rightful decision for this character
Not to mention that dragons dont experience the flow of time as mortals do(his own words) so him being a good boi is quite literally the dragon version of behaving for 5 whole minutes
Numinex.
I kill him because it's cooler to charge into the final battle with your blade homies instead of the geriatrics from the mountain.
They are not your homies, they are your servants that directly disobey you and blackmail you all the while they are oath sworn to you. Nothing but traitors
I kill.partysnax every time. Hes a war criminal. I don't consider him being a good boy for what amounts to 5 minutes for a timeless dragon to override the horrors he wrought before thwt.
Absolutely. Let me just MURDER this pacifistic Dragon who's been living in SECLUSION for possibly MILLIONS of YEARS, ALONE, just because he's a Dragon. Not to mention get rid of one of the oldest, most wise, and humbling living things in this plane just because you think all Dragons are the same. You know who you sound like? You sound like the Thalmor. You know, the people who slaughtered your order because you assisted the Empire too well, and they didn't like that. You can't get over the fact that a DRAGON was helping your BOSS and now you want to re-establish DOMINANCE by ***MAKING YOUR BOSS***, MURDER a dear Friend and Mentor. And you're fully expecting them to do this. While you and your little CLIQUE are outnumbered, because not only is the Dragonborn (lore-wise) a one-man Imperial Army, but also, ALL THE NEW BLADE RECRUITS ARE ALLIES OF THE DRAGONBORN. ***YOUR BOSS.*** So forgive me for not following your every whim while I hunt the DRAGONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY CAUSING ISSUES, and keep my dear Friend and Mentor, and maybe even a Father Figure, alive and well protected.
I've got a mod to not be with the scream nerds, and let partysnax live
I've done both sides, 6 complete playthroughs, killed party snax once
Let him live and you set everything up for Skyrim tw-- i mean (Elder Scrolls 6)
Yeah… to hell with her…
No and I don't have to anymore because the quest just disappeared out of my quest log
I fucked his ass
I dislike all dragons, but fortunately for parthy i hate the blades more, so what if parthy was the general to alduin, if we are to believe kalpa's and constant rebirth of nirn are real, then only this cycle was when parthy decided to be bad, so y'know this amounted to like a 5 minute temper tantrum in the grand scheme of things.
Yes. The Dragonborn does not serve the Blades, the Blades serve the Dragonborn!
Wouldn't it be something if you kill Alduin and chose to kill Paarthurnax and the Blades see no more use for you and try to whack you? That would actually be a cool storyline, modders get on it!
Yeah I killed as many of them as I could
setstage MQPaarthurnax 100
I honestly hate how much delphine is brought up. 99% of the player base does not pay attention and it is shown every time she is discussed. People always miss her dialogue, what she actually means, and what the other people around her say of her.
I could never kill Paarthurnax. He must be protected at all cost.
Parthunaax Dilemma is always in my mod load order, the one time I killed him to see what happened I felt so bad I had to go back to my last save that was multiple hours earlier
Fuck no. Dude just wants to live on a mountain and talk to other old people. Let him live in his mountain top retirement community in peace dammit!
If Isekai were real I’d teleport to the TES universe and murder Delphine in cold blood, and feed her corpse to Paarthurnax.
Yeah, did not kill the dragon
Mods fix this so you can talk the Blades down and not kill him, you can still rebuild the Blades.
I am the dragon slayer.
Multiple playthroughs with multiple differences.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Seems weird and kinda boring to just make the same choices every time.
I installed a mod that allowed me to let him live so the quest would complete. It never sat right with me how that was the final task of the main story. Unless they added an option later on after I played it, I always thought it was stupid of them making it the only way to end it all.
Fus Ro Dah'd this bitch off the side or the cliff when I reached this point. Her old ass butt fucker too
I cannot and will not kill Mario
I killed that mfer😭😭😭
I never killed Paarthurnax (or Parodontax, as I call him). He helped much more than the blades. I would also never join the Imperial faction in the war
I kick Delphines useless ass to the curb. She doesn’t help at all, but think she gets to boss me around? Paarthunax is my buddy.
I progressed just enough to get the enhanced attack against dragons and left them to deal with sven
Fun fact: if you go to the graybeards after she tells you to kill Paarthunax, you can actually not kill him
What monster even decided to choose to kill him anyway?