> I could squeeze my butt cheeks to ask him to trot. Lo and behold, that worked! I really didn't use leg, just my butt (seat). !! And of course, a slight leaning back or heaviness works to slow down usually. But I am still not sure I understand about riding with your seat, so welcome any thoughts, especially anatomically specific ones.
riding with your seat is exactly as it says. you're probably overthinking it and thinking it has a deeper, not as literal meaning. but it means using your seat to help aid and communicate with your horse.
as your instructor showed you, when you squeezed, the horse trotted. that's exactly riding with your seat.
the horse can feel your shifting and subtle movements and responds to that. sitting deep to halt or slow down, putting more pressure on your left or right to help aid in turns/bends, etc.
it's the same as using your legs, but your using different parts of your body to communicate.
It's kinda hard to explain but just turning your body is enough to signal a seat trained horse. That's why instructors will tell you to look where you want to go your shifting your weight. Also you can very slightly shift your hips in the saddle and put more weight into a stirrup to signal something similar. Some horses just don't understand this though it is a trained thing to refine to a point it looks effortless.
If you've ever carried a toddler on your shoulders, you can get a pretty good idea of what it's like for the horse. You can easily feel what they are doing with their lil' bodies -- where they are looking, which way they are turning, if they are squirmy.
Horses are very sensitive, they pick everything up. They know what you're doing up there.
I have to clarify because I developed a nasty habit I had to unlearn: riding is NEVER about leaning.
Leaning takes you out of the tall and upright direction you need to have to stay over the horses center of balance. You certainly CAN lean to get the horse to turn (I did that for years) but you'll limit yourself from being able to control the turn and more precise movements.
Here's how I'm turning now:
With a relaxed leg, and a rotation that starts at the hip, turn my outside heel out. This gently places my upper leg on the horse. The more rotation, the sharper the turn.
If I want to push with my seat as part of the turn, I can think about my sitbones moving perpendicular to the horse to help with bend, or something like a leg yield.
Because you've also got your rein aids, which can help with collection and direction as well, all of these tools can be used to have the horse turn, and turn well.
I am HORRIBLE at steering And I've just started getting it under control, and it's clear to me now it's because I was depending on leaning. Never lean!! Always have a nice and upright torso, gently lifted.
No. Let me try to explain differently.
If you're sitting now, sit. Then, think about pushing your sitbones to the left, and then right. You're still keeping your sitbones parallel, but its like you are very subtly pushing your whole body left or right.
Does that make more sense?
This movement, in my experience, helps the horse push their barrel and step underneath to create a more impulsive and forward movement. Its an important part of leg yielding, where the horse moves laterally.
It will be your leg and rein aid that tell the horse how to make the turn, or if they should go lateral, etc.
you'd want to shift your weight but not lean. leaning makes you and the horse off balance.
when i'm working on bends to the inside, for example, i would use my right seat bone with slightly more pressure along with using my inside leg and of course rein aides.
it's so incredibly subtle. my horse will turn and it looks like i did nothing at all to que him.
I sprained my left SI joint a few years ago and I personally find it gets achier if I’m not being active. I strength train a lot out of the saddle, with a focus on glutes, hamstrings, back, and core. It helps me be a more effective rider, and makes things less sore. I also avoid high impact exercises like running and jumping as that always makes it sore. Riding doesn’t bother me.
I do a program from @haybales.barbells on Instagram and I find it helps me stay pain-free.
I’m gonna add to this comment, since I too suffered a sprain due to being tossed when my horse took off. My pt had me do loads of bridges, bird dogs, crab and monster walks. Mine gets especially stiff if I’m not moving, and if I’m riding a larger horse that needs a lot of leg. Stretch before you ride and after.
Yes! perhaps I mentioned, but I ride two horses and the wider one makes me more sore even though he is the more beautifully trained horse who theoretically requires only very subtle aids.
I have a connective tissue disorder and my SI joint subluxates fairly frequently. Strengthening the core muscles is the best thing to protect it. And, happily, riding is all about core.
As for riding with the seat, it’s about the way your body connects with the horse and how microadjustments in your position, where your weight is etc, communicates with your horse. I only ride my boy bareback, and that’s been incredible. I hardly need any leg at all.
riding with your seat is well how you moving in a saddle effects your horse. the most basic example that most horses understand is in walk and canter if you’re sitting with your hips loose and following the horse the horses will move at the natural pace, locking your hip would be a cue for them to come
back while moving “past” them would be a cue to go forward. the same applies to trot, seating late will slow them down while seating rapidly will encourage to move forward. in the more details and horses with more buttons the way you shift your weight to which side will effect how balanced they are, where the hips are ectra.
as a jumper (non traditional one) my riding is 70% seat 25% leg and 5% hand. i ride them in light seat and the slightest tilt to my position will influence how they move. if i tip forward they go forward, if i’m seating tall with my ass really under me they know it as steady. if i ever actually sit in the saddle they know its sit on the back legs and really come back time.
in terms of watching videos id stay very clear of modern dressage ones as well their riding is questionable in the nicest terms, your seat should absolutely be your aid. i’d talk to your coach to get more details on what exactly that means in your horse as a lot of differences can come from training
Riding with your seat will really help you and your horse to communicate, and this is how I felt when my instructor told me to start using my legs to help steer when I was younger. The dressage rider you watched was just getting picky with language but the seat is absolutely an aid (which is communication, aka translator I guess). In trot, rising or sitting, you can really control tempo with your seat. Moving against the horse will cause them to regulate to be more with you because they want to be in balance, it's one way how they know they're doing the right thing. This also rolls into riding with 'feel' because it's not something any of us could tell you how to do with your body, you'll have to learn to feel it. Things I think about are maintaining movement/relaxation in my seat for the gait I'm riding, keeping my seat light when all is going as we want it to, weighing a seat bone for canter transitions or different lateral movements, etc etc.
Most of my schooling sessions are very focused on my seat and my horse's response to it at the moment, whereas a few years back I never even thought of it. You're just making progress :)
I have SI joint issues from an old injury. Myofascial release therapy got me over the worst of things when I did that a couple of years after the initial injury, and I saw a specialized chiro while pregnant to proactively address the area and keep me more comfortable.
Now, many years later, there are a few things I do to keep me sound(ish).
* Pilates for general core strength and flexibility
* Pay attention to my office chair - nothing with a sling seat or anything that slightly compresses my hips
* Sleep with a firm pillow between or under my knees
* Sounds like you ride dressage, so this may be less applicable for you, but I am much more comfortable in a narrow twist saddle. The extra-wide horses will always be somewhat uncomfortable for me though.
Thank you! I just requested a standing desk option at work and am still using the pillow between the legs I learned about during pregnancy. I have heard about myofascial release but will look into it more to see if anyone in my areas knows. And maybe will just say hello to those wide, wide horses. :)
Ah, and saddle twist - I didn't know that term but will look more closely at the two saddles I ride with. One is a dressage saddle (on the wider horse) and one is a ... ? English something but let me look.
Jumping saddles tend to have variability in the twist. DeGrange and Butet are known for being narrower there, this supports a better hip angle for me. I had to ride a client horse a few weeks ago in the owner's wide twist Voltaire, and it was very uncomfortable!
It's been years since I rode dressage regularly, but I prefer a dressage saddle without the massive thigh blocks that are popular now. I used to ride in an older Passier. I've only more recently ridden in newer dressage saddle with huge blocks, and that just doesn't work for my SI and hips.
My SI joints are calcified, so I can no longer sit the trot. Even the simple act of moving faster or slower signals the horse’s tempo. It’s the same with your bum; little movements such as dropping your inside hip signal the horse.
With SI joint pain, I would speak with your doctor or PT. I physically can’t sit the trot anymore, but I can still post and posting actually helps my joints since I have an autoimmune disease.
OK, so classical dressage rider, student and trainer here. The seat is all of you, and all of your aids. ;) But to get specific, you can use your bumm to aid or cue. For instance you can lower one seat bone to add weight, or opposite you can lift a seat bone to open a shoulder, for instance, or lift your entire bumm a bit to help a horse bring its back up. You can use your bumm and lower back to half halt or halt. Use of lowering one seat bone can produce a turn step (ie turn on haunches), direction shift, etc.
Frankly never heard of squeeze cheeks to get horse to move, course it's likely you tensed in your thighs which will produce more forward sometimes. In western they often use that to get them to stop. ;) Some dressage types ride with a driving seat, I haven't much use of that. Just me and how I've been taught.
There are always fifty ways to do one thing on a horse, some may be more correct than others, but horses will learn what we want from them and do their best to give us what we ask for.
As for SI joint issues, I used to have an issue with my left SI pinching the nerve that runs down the leg, my left leg would go numb when riding. It got fixed when I broke my pelvis and sacrum after bailing off my mare when she was in a bucking fit. Haha I don't recommend that to fix it. For soreness, not much you can do with just lesson horses, but saddle fit to you can be a huge factor. I think the best you can do is to stretch that area as much as possible before and after a ride. i found the stretches for the periformis to be the most helpful for SI pain. That and build core strength enough to help relieve lower back from holding so much, and of course getting flexible and supple in your hips will help too.
Hips like a whore, shoulders like a queen! Riding with your seat is the - well you get the idea 😆. Others here have explained it much better, but this simple saying has reminded me as a beginner dressage student of the basics - mobile communicative hips (seat) with a regal, tall back.
Ha ha ha, this is my new mantra! I do try to think of channeling Queen Elizabeth when remembering to sit straight, now let me add your tip for my hips, woooo.
Another one from horse camp like 30 years ago is a reminder to tuck shoulders back and chest out (helps with straight back) by shouting "RICH HUSBANDS!" to stick your tits out 😆
Women pretty intuitively know how to do this (ride with your seat) once you've reached certain life milestones. Think about how you got that baby, particularly when you're on top (there's a reason the position is called called 'cowgirl'). You're using your seat and hips to basically drive to where you want to be.
Need to go a little slower? Sit up, deepen into the saddle, and don't drive so hard. Relax a bit and enjoy it up there. Want to go a little faster or with more urgency? Rock your hips forward a little, shift where you're putting your weight on your seat and in your hips, and push with your hips, just like you would if you're on top in bed.
This doesn't really help with turning, but the principle is basically the same, just doing it on one side or the other, and shifting your body weight while you do that. If you sit on a hard surface you can feel this: try to rotate your torso 15 degrees left, and your weight will drop onto your left tailbone. It'll feel like your left hip "drops" and the right rises, even though your shoulders are still level. Then come back to center, and then go to the right to feel the opposite.
Instructors say to look where you're going because it's the easiest way to get someone to get the hang of it, but what they're really after is not just eyes but pointing your body in a way that tells the horse what's coming with minimal disruption.
The toddlers on shoulder thing is a good analogy too. Think of seat and body weight as you knowing where they're looking and focused, even when you can't see them. Yanking your ears or hair to turn your head to look where they want you to is like your bit/reins. If I'm walking through the zoo with my nephew on my shoulders and he wants to see the tigers on the left, it's much easier if I notice and just turn so he can see them once I notice he's headed left than wait until I get an ear pull and we have to have a conversation about how we don't pull people's ears!
Sorry you got downvoted, but your comment is helpful to me and I did ask for anatomically specific for just this reason. My first instructor was an older man and would never think to have a sexual or toddler on the shoulder analogy, but for where I am in life, they make sense. Thank you.
The downvoting is what it is, but it's actually a pretty common analogy in the equine world at a certain point. The glib/crass phrasing you'll see often is 'hips like a whore'.
We apparently can't talk about the reason we're all here though, even when it's a near perfect substitute to learn how to simply use your hips and pelvis in a completely non-sexual way to communicate with a 1000 lb equine - too squeamish to talk about that thing all people generally want to be doing all the time, even as an analogy!
This also applies to if you happen to have tight hip flexors, which present a lot in riders (you're spreading your legs and wrapping them around a horse, your hip flexors are gonna get put through their paces). You don't have to go have sex, but that basic stretch in that position if you widen and deepen into it (call it a frog stretch if we have to give it a PG-13 name) just on the ground can help if you find that ever being a problem. Men usually are tighter there than women both because of usage and basic anatomy (naturally wider hips for most women because ... children), but riders of either gender often find this at some point and need to release their hip flexors somehow.
> I could squeeze my butt cheeks to ask him to trot. Lo and behold, that worked! I really didn't use leg, just my butt (seat). !! And of course, a slight leaning back or heaviness works to slow down usually. But I am still not sure I understand about riding with your seat, so welcome any thoughts, especially anatomically specific ones. riding with your seat is exactly as it says. you're probably overthinking it and thinking it has a deeper, not as literal meaning. but it means using your seat to help aid and communicate with your horse. as your instructor showed you, when you squeezed, the horse trotted. that's exactly riding with your seat. the horse can feel your shifting and subtle movements and responds to that. sitting deep to halt or slow down, putting more pressure on your left or right to help aid in turns/bends, etc. it's the same as using your legs, but your using different parts of your body to communicate.
Overthinking it is so true. It becomes second nature as you progress but I had no idea wtf the instructor meant at first 😂
How would you use your seat for turns? Would you lean on the inside bone?
It's kinda hard to explain but just turning your body is enough to signal a seat trained horse. That's why instructors will tell you to look where you want to go your shifting your weight. Also you can very slightly shift your hips in the saddle and put more weight into a stirrup to signal something similar. Some horses just don't understand this though it is a trained thing to refine to a point it looks effortless.
If you've ever carried a toddler on your shoulders, you can get a pretty good idea of what it's like for the horse. You can easily feel what they are doing with their lil' bodies -- where they are looking, which way they are turning, if they are squirmy. Horses are very sensitive, they pick everything up. They know what you're doing up there.
I have to clarify because I developed a nasty habit I had to unlearn: riding is NEVER about leaning. Leaning takes you out of the tall and upright direction you need to have to stay over the horses center of balance. You certainly CAN lean to get the horse to turn (I did that for years) but you'll limit yourself from being able to control the turn and more precise movements. Here's how I'm turning now: With a relaxed leg, and a rotation that starts at the hip, turn my outside heel out. This gently places my upper leg on the horse. The more rotation, the sharper the turn. If I want to push with my seat as part of the turn, I can think about my sitbones moving perpendicular to the horse to help with bend, or something like a leg yield. Because you've also got your rein aids, which can help with collection and direction as well, all of these tools can be used to have the horse turn, and turn well. I am HORRIBLE at steering And I've just started getting it under control, and it's clear to me now it's because I was depending on leaning. Never lean!! Always have a nice and upright torso, gently lifted.
So moving the seat bones perpendicular would be like thinking of twisting then?
No. Let me try to explain differently. If you're sitting now, sit. Then, think about pushing your sitbones to the left, and then right. You're still keeping your sitbones parallel, but its like you are very subtly pushing your whole body left or right. Does that make more sense?
Got it! So if I’m correct, to turn right you would shift your sitbones to the left?
Yes! But you also need to rotate that outside left leg as your outside leg, and hold the aids so your horse just doesn't get pushed left
Thank you! Gonna try this out next time
This movement, in my experience, helps the horse push their barrel and step underneath to create a more impulsive and forward movement. Its an important part of leg yielding, where the horse moves laterally. It will be your leg and rein aid that tell the horse how to make the turn, or if they should go lateral, etc.
Oooh, I am looking forward to trying this...
you'd want to shift your weight but not lean. leaning makes you and the horse off balance. when i'm working on bends to the inside, for example, i would use my right seat bone with slightly more pressure along with using my inside leg and of course rein aides. it's so incredibly subtle. my horse will turn and it looks like i did nothing at all to que him.
I sprained my left SI joint a few years ago and I personally find it gets achier if I’m not being active. I strength train a lot out of the saddle, with a focus on glutes, hamstrings, back, and core. It helps me be a more effective rider, and makes things less sore. I also avoid high impact exercises like running and jumping as that always makes it sore. Riding doesn’t bother me. I do a program from @haybales.barbells on Instagram and I find it helps me stay pain-free.
Motion is lotion, as the arthritis doctor says!
I’m gonna add to this comment, since I too suffered a sprain due to being tossed when my horse took off. My pt had me do loads of bridges, bird dogs, crab and monster walks. Mine gets especially stiff if I’m not moving, and if I’m riding a larger horse that needs a lot of leg. Stretch before you ride and after.
Yes! perhaps I mentioned, but I ride two horses and the wider one makes me more sore even though he is the more beautifully trained horse who theoretically requires only very subtle aids.
I have a connective tissue disorder and my SI joint subluxates fairly frequently. Strengthening the core muscles is the best thing to protect it. And, happily, riding is all about core. As for riding with the seat, it’s about the way your body connects with the horse and how microadjustments in your position, where your weight is etc, communicates with your horse. I only ride my boy bareback, and that’s been incredible. I hardly need any leg at all.
riding with your seat is well how you moving in a saddle effects your horse. the most basic example that most horses understand is in walk and canter if you’re sitting with your hips loose and following the horse the horses will move at the natural pace, locking your hip would be a cue for them to come back while moving “past” them would be a cue to go forward. the same applies to trot, seating late will slow them down while seating rapidly will encourage to move forward. in the more details and horses with more buttons the way you shift your weight to which side will effect how balanced they are, where the hips are ectra. as a jumper (non traditional one) my riding is 70% seat 25% leg and 5% hand. i ride them in light seat and the slightest tilt to my position will influence how they move. if i tip forward they go forward, if i’m seating tall with my ass really under me they know it as steady. if i ever actually sit in the saddle they know its sit on the back legs and really come back time. in terms of watching videos id stay very clear of modern dressage ones as well their riding is questionable in the nicest terms, your seat should absolutely be your aid. i’d talk to your coach to get more details on what exactly that means in your horse as a lot of differences can come from training
Riding with your seat will really help you and your horse to communicate, and this is how I felt when my instructor told me to start using my legs to help steer when I was younger. The dressage rider you watched was just getting picky with language but the seat is absolutely an aid (which is communication, aka translator I guess). In trot, rising or sitting, you can really control tempo with your seat. Moving against the horse will cause them to regulate to be more with you because they want to be in balance, it's one way how they know they're doing the right thing. This also rolls into riding with 'feel' because it's not something any of us could tell you how to do with your body, you'll have to learn to feel it. Things I think about are maintaining movement/relaxation in my seat for the gait I'm riding, keeping my seat light when all is going as we want it to, weighing a seat bone for canter transitions or different lateral movements, etc etc. Most of my schooling sessions are very focused on my seat and my horse's response to it at the moment, whereas a few years back I never even thought of it. You're just making progress :)
Aw, ha ha, thanks. True, seat was not on my mind before.
I have SI joint issues from an old injury. Myofascial release therapy got me over the worst of things when I did that a couple of years after the initial injury, and I saw a specialized chiro while pregnant to proactively address the area and keep me more comfortable. Now, many years later, there are a few things I do to keep me sound(ish). * Pilates for general core strength and flexibility * Pay attention to my office chair - nothing with a sling seat or anything that slightly compresses my hips * Sleep with a firm pillow between or under my knees * Sounds like you ride dressage, so this may be less applicable for you, but I am much more comfortable in a narrow twist saddle. The extra-wide horses will always be somewhat uncomfortable for me though.
Thank you! I just requested a standing desk option at work and am still using the pillow between the legs I learned about during pregnancy. I have heard about myofascial release but will look into it more to see if anyone in my areas knows. And maybe will just say hello to those wide, wide horses. :)
Ah, and saddle twist - I didn't know that term but will look more closely at the two saddles I ride with. One is a dressage saddle (on the wider horse) and one is a ... ? English something but let me look.
Jumping saddles tend to have variability in the twist. DeGrange and Butet are known for being narrower there, this supports a better hip angle for me. I had to ride a client horse a few weeks ago in the owner's wide twist Voltaire, and it was very uncomfortable! It's been years since I rode dressage regularly, but I prefer a dressage saddle without the massive thigh blocks that are popular now. I used to ride in an older Passier. I've only more recently ridden in newer dressage saddle with huge blocks, and that just doesn't work for my SI and hips.
My SI joints are calcified, so I can no longer sit the trot. Even the simple act of moving faster or slower signals the horse’s tempo. It’s the same with your bum; little movements such as dropping your inside hip signal the horse. With SI joint pain, I would speak with your doctor or PT. I physically can’t sit the trot anymore, but I can still post and posting actually helps my joints since I have an autoimmune disease.
I love that you can find a way to ride that makes your body feel good despite those challenges. Thanks.
OK, so classical dressage rider, student and trainer here. The seat is all of you, and all of your aids. ;) But to get specific, you can use your bumm to aid or cue. For instance you can lower one seat bone to add weight, or opposite you can lift a seat bone to open a shoulder, for instance, or lift your entire bumm a bit to help a horse bring its back up. You can use your bumm and lower back to half halt or halt. Use of lowering one seat bone can produce a turn step (ie turn on haunches), direction shift, etc. Frankly never heard of squeeze cheeks to get horse to move, course it's likely you tensed in your thighs which will produce more forward sometimes. In western they often use that to get them to stop. ;) Some dressage types ride with a driving seat, I haven't much use of that. Just me and how I've been taught. There are always fifty ways to do one thing on a horse, some may be more correct than others, but horses will learn what we want from them and do their best to give us what we ask for. As for SI joint issues, I used to have an issue with my left SI pinching the nerve that runs down the leg, my left leg would go numb when riding. It got fixed when I broke my pelvis and sacrum after bailing off my mare when she was in a bucking fit. Haha I don't recommend that to fix it. For soreness, not much you can do with just lesson horses, but saddle fit to you can be a huge factor. I think the best you can do is to stretch that area as much as possible before and after a ride. i found the stretches for the periformis to be the most helpful for SI pain. That and build core strength enough to help relieve lower back from holding so much, and of course getting flexible and supple in your hips will help too.
Hips like a whore, shoulders like a queen! Riding with your seat is the - well you get the idea 😆. Others here have explained it much better, but this simple saying has reminded me as a beginner dressage student of the basics - mobile communicative hips (seat) with a regal, tall back.
Ha ha ha, this is my new mantra! I do try to think of channeling Queen Elizabeth when remembering to sit straight, now let me add your tip for my hips, woooo.
Another one from horse camp like 30 years ago is a reminder to tuck shoulders back and chest out (helps with straight back) by shouting "RICH HUSBANDS!" to stick your tits out 😆
Women pretty intuitively know how to do this (ride with your seat) once you've reached certain life milestones. Think about how you got that baby, particularly when you're on top (there's a reason the position is called called 'cowgirl'). You're using your seat and hips to basically drive to where you want to be. Need to go a little slower? Sit up, deepen into the saddle, and don't drive so hard. Relax a bit and enjoy it up there. Want to go a little faster or with more urgency? Rock your hips forward a little, shift where you're putting your weight on your seat and in your hips, and push with your hips, just like you would if you're on top in bed. This doesn't really help with turning, but the principle is basically the same, just doing it on one side or the other, and shifting your body weight while you do that. If you sit on a hard surface you can feel this: try to rotate your torso 15 degrees left, and your weight will drop onto your left tailbone. It'll feel like your left hip "drops" and the right rises, even though your shoulders are still level. Then come back to center, and then go to the right to feel the opposite. Instructors say to look where you're going because it's the easiest way to get someone to get the hang of it, but what they're really after is not just eyes but pointing your body in a way that tells the horse what's coming with minimal disruption. The toddlers on shoulder thing is a good analogy too. Think of seat and body weight as you knowing where they're looking and focused, even when you can't see them. Yanking your ears or hair to turn your head to look where they want you to is like your bit/reins. If I'm walking through the zoo with my nephew on my shoulders and he wants to see the tigers on the left, it's much easier if I notice and just turn so he can see them once I notice he's headed left than wait until I get an ear pull and we have to have a conversation about how we don't pull people's ears!
Sorry you got downvoted, but your comment is helpful to me and I did ask for anatomically specific for just this reason. My first instructor was an older man and would never think to have a sexual or toddler on the shoulder analogy, but for where I am in life, they make sense. Thank you.
The downvoting is what it is, but it's actually a pretty common analogy in the equine world at a certain point. The glib/crass phrasing you'll see often is 'hips like a whore'. We apparently can't talk about the reason we're all here though, even when it's a near perfect substitute to learn how to simply use your hips and pelvis in a completely non-sexual way to communicate with a 1000 lb equine - too squeamish to talk about that thing all people generally want to be doing all the time, even as an analogy! This also applies to if you happen to have tight hip flexors, which present a lot in riders (you're spreading your legs and wrapping them around a horse, your hip flexors are gonna get put through their paces). You don't have to go have sex, but that basic stretch in that position if you widen and deepen into it (call it a frog stretch if we have to give it a PG-13 name) just on the ground can help if you find that ever being a problem. Men usually are tighter there than women both because of usage and basic anatomy (naturally wider hips for most women because ... children), but riders of either gender often find this at some point and need to release their hip flexors somehow.