I agree completely. She does t know what she did? In what world is leaving an 8 year home alone ok? If she was really willing to take responsibility she could have listed things SHE KNOWS she did and apologized for that as a starting point. Starting off with denial of knowledge is not the way to make amends.
I cut my entire family off when my dad died 10 years ago and the huge mistake of letting them back in. It took me five years of therapy to walk away from them all again and I did it because I saw patterns repeating with daughter. If it hadn’t have started again, I probably could have put up with it so my daughter would have grandparents and great grandparents.
I live by this now; the quality of your relationships affects the quality of your life. If you don’t make my life better in some way, then there’s no reason I should be sharing it with you.
Good luck! Do what feels right for you. But I think you already know that answer.
Abusers always think they weren't that bad and don't deserve, because they see abuse as "anything worse than what I was willing to do".
So if she was willing to leave young kids alone at night to drink and do coke at a bar... a REAL abuser who "deserves" no contact would be someone who didn't come back from after days.
An abuser who didn't come back after days would say a REAL abuser who "deserves" no contact would be someone who never came back.
Someone who never came back would reach out to their estranged kids one day and say they "deserve" to be in contact with you because a REAL abuser who deserves no contact would be someone who never reached out.
On and on... Sorry for your experience OP, it sounds absolutely awful. Hugs.
I don't have experience with that, so I cannot answer you direct question.
However, first thought: If you haven't done this with the text, go through and count the "I" statements. Really, it's all about her and her feelings.
Also, her statement
>I am willing to accept responsiblity for anything I've done to you.. if I knew what it was
is 🐂💩.
Given your brief explanation in your post, if she cannot identify at least ONE thing she did on her own, she does not have the emotionally maturity to handle you listing the harmful things she did.
If you want to give her the opportunity, tell her that. Tell her that you will not be taking on the emotional labor of explaining the obvious, and until she can independently identify, apologize for, and take accountability for at least some of the harm she cause you and your sister there will be no contact.
Yes. I went NC for five years, we began talking again, then she started up on her typical bullshit and I cut her off again. It's been 11 years this time and I should've done it decades ago.
I have been in contact for about 8 years. More or less.
I think she crossed some boundaries a few months ago. I’m not sure, I don’t have the energy for her drama, I’m tired. Went NC then.
I went from NC to LC recently, she doesn’t know yet. Again I have other issues to attend.
My history with her has had pro and cons.
In your case, nah it really doesn’t seem worth it.
For those who want to get in touch, it took decades, and it is never one step, or smooth.
every word and phrase in that email is about her and the affect not having a relationship with you and your sib has on her. she's not ready for any reconciliation except the one in which she comes out on top.
it's not going to be worth it. whatever you say to her is going to be minimized or used against you. she is only going to try to defend herself and turn whatever you say back onto you. let her be. you all know why you are NC. she just wants to argue about it with you.
Your huge red flag is the claim that she doesn’t know why you’re angry or what she did. People who are truly ready to make amends and take responsibility for their actions are first ready to admit their wrongdoing — even if that admission is along the lines of “I know I haven’t been a good parent and that I’ve hurt you. I am still working on recognizing exactly what I’ve done and am committed to fixing it.” Anything less than that isn’t an apology; it’s manipulation.
I haven’t been NC with my father (my mom died several years ago) nearly as long, and I was an adult before he became a crappy parent, but I recognize your mother’s “apology” very well. My advice? If you respond at all, tell her what I’ve told my father from the beginning: when she can admit what she’s done and starts getting help to fix herself, the door to reconciliation *might* be *conditionally* cracked open. But without that, it stays firmly closed.
The thing is, nobody just chooses to one day stop speaking to someone. There were years of explaining and pleading for change. That’s true for me, I bet it was true for you. The idea that she has “no idea!” what is wrong is ridiculous. You don’t have to be mom of the year to know that drugs, leaving your children, never showing up for them etc, is wrong. It’s not rocket science here.
*She* feels bad and she wants to be absolved so that she doesn’t have to feel bad anymore. She knows she fucked up. If she doesn’t know, she could ask a therapist. But she won’t. She just wants you to talk to her so she can stop feeling bad.
If you want to talk to her that’s fine. But not to rehash and explain what she did wrong. That’s just going to make you feel bad again. If you want to talk to her you’re going to have to accept that *she doesn’t think she did anything wrong* and go from there.
When my husband died, several of his old friends called me to express their condolences, but I soon realized that the REAL reason that they were calling me is because they had treated my husband very poorly in the past, and they were trying to make themselves feel better.
I certainly would not if receiving such a message.
my red flag detector went off at those:
"I am willing to accept responsibility for anything I've done to you.. if I knew what it was"
well duh, think harder. if they'd be able to really see their mistakes - by naming some - that'd be proof for maturity or at least self reflection.
"i cannot let this go on any longer..Life is too short for this"
so life being short is a more important factor in this than what you want? geez.
It’s highly likely that if you respond and list out the reasons you’ve given here, she’ll come back with the classic lines like, “I don’t remember it that way,” “it wasn’t that bad,” “my childhood was worse than yours,” “I did the best I could,” “nobody can be a perfect parent,” etc. At best, an “I’m sorry you feel that way even though it isn’t my fault because I did the best I could and therefore you must forgive me and let me back into your life.”
I received an email just like this after 3 years NC and information I can’t share without triggering myself… anyways - it went just like this. Within the first two sentences they played the victim over something we were victims over (it was about what someone thought of them - that they didn’t care about us - shocking it wasn’t just me anymore 😅) Almost verbatim “I don’t know what I possibly did” after a history that would have your jaw open (like yours) and decades of emails?
They threw out our number and sold my life insurance policy after they had manipulated me into signing it over. Then all the stalking, false accusations and calls to police… I mean I’m beginning to think they read from the same script. There is a difference between parents who are able to pay the bills and who aren’t and I was in the latter category but our utilities never really got turned off I don’t think. My god I just read it all - yeah no my son didn’t grow up with that. I left that so he wouldn’t. But I did what I did to provide the most stable life I could and that meant staying single - maybe this is why we have a good relationship.
I think you have every right to decide for yourself whether someone is good for your physical and mental health. Your terms can be flexible to adjust to your boundaries. But this letter sounds soooooo much like the one I got two years ago.
Guess what? My dad called around to find my son’s school (he’s 18 and graduated) weeks after he had graduated. This just happened and why I’m a new member even though I’ve been 10 years estranged. Look for changed behavior. Anything other than that is manipulation. 15 years later. 10 of that estranged and they just don’t change I’m sorry. 😢 I can tell you right now what I did as a Mom and I didn’t even need a letter 10 years later. I also told my son I am always here to discuss anything and that I would do whatever I ever needed to validate any pain or hurt I may have caused. He claims I haven’t but I told him it may not even have surfaced yet. Don’t matter - he matters and his feelings and his experiences. That’s how I would have written an email to my estranged child.
I commited the mistake of reconnecting with them after a long decade or more, big mistake!!. The damage and financial abuse was beyond any possibility of reconciliation. This time I am on strong and forever NC.
This is exactly the kind of shit my dad used to send me to try and get me back. I gave in a couple times and very much regretted letting him back in my life.
Of all the things she said in this email the, “I’ll accept what I did wrong…if knew what it was” or whatever, is the most important sentence.
This is a very standard Abusive Person move. It’s mean to lure you into conversation where you tell them what they did wrong, they toss you the Ol’ “I’m sorry you feel that way”, and BAM- you’re back in contact just like they wanted.
Don’t fall for it.
If I got a message that said something like “after you went NC I decided to do some self reflection. I began therapy weekly on X. Through that I’ve understood more that when I did XYZ that was hurtful. I now understand I never took the responsibility for that I should have and I’m sorry. If you’re open to reconnecting I would like that and am open to using a therapist to help us move forward and build a relationship “
Then sure I’d probably reconnect. That’s yet to come. And this is definitely not it
If you do it, do it for *you*. Not for her. She isn’t going to change. Ever.
But if there are things you need to say, and you need to say them specifically to her? Not a trusted friend or therapist but actually her?
Ok. Say them. Do it so you can say what you need to say. That’s all.
But don’t expect anything to change. Ever.
This is for YOU.
You are in charge of protecting you. You can step back onto the carousel for a moment, say what you need to say, then step right back off it.
But I agree with most of the other commenters here, be sure you really need to first.
Im convinced that when a parent wants you to tell them what bad things they did, it’s because they want to know what bad things you REMEMBER.
I’ve noticed parents never say ‘is it because I did (bad thing)? Because I am so sorry for that.’
Parents will say ‘I wasn’t a perfect parent’ but never actually say what imperfect things they did.
I gave my ex-mom one chance after 8 or 9 years of NC. My grandparents were the middlemen. My grandpa wanted us to just hug and forget everything. I told him it wasn't happening.
My ex-mom made it clear she thinks I've fucked up the entire family (scapegoating much?) because I hate her for no reason.
I remember saying at multiple points in the meeting that we would both have to admit our wrongdoings and apologize. This was the key to moving forward. I was willing to do this. I even started out by mentioning one or two things I know I messed up on. But she had no response at all. Zero desire to admit any wrongdoing on her part.
I also mentioned how there's a huge elephant in the room everyone keeps ignoring and nobody wants to address it. She was super pissed at me the entire time until I dropped the bomb: "Your husband is a pervert." She rolled her eyes at me in the most guilty look I've ever seen in my life.
She said nothing for the rest of the conversation, except how she feels like we are ganging up on her. She then took off, claiming she had somewhere important to be. (At 7:10pm?) She also took off in a different direction of where the cars are parked.
That was it. That was the last time I talked to her. She probably ran home to cry to her pedophile husband, who manipulates her like hell.
Moral of the story: don't waste your time on these people.
My mom seems to legitimately believe i had a magical childhood instead of abuse and stress and screaming and police and threats. She's never going to re-write the fantasy she built in her head. She will die thinking she's the victim.
She thinks you’re NC to punish her. You’re NC to protect your peace. If she feels punished and hated, that’s on her.
I’m sorry she won’t just leave you alone to live your life.
I can save you the bother of meeting up with her. This will be her apology:
“I know that I wasn’t perfect but I did the best I could. I’m sorry if that wasn’t good enough for you. But it wasn’t as bad as you keep saying; look at you now. You turned out ok so I must have done something right.”
OP, do you have any family or friends in common with this "mother" of yours, who you keep in touch with and she also keeps in touch with?
I ask because this message really just reeks of a whitewash attempt, like it's something she's writing in order to show other people how much she tries so hard to connect with these daughters of hers, how she simply has "no idea what possibly could be amiss, poor me, whatsoever did I ever do," etc. Then you get painted as the shitty daughters who abandoned this poor little old lady, yadda yadda, you know the drill.
If she's writing this for the benefit of mutual family, to basically frame you up as shitty daughters while she paints herself as the aggrieved party, then maybe it would be worth considering just showing them your OP above — so they can read for themselves the kind of mother she really was.
Of course people have, but you'll find most people regret it. Your therapist is right, as long as you manage your expectations, you can do whatever you think is best. At this point, you know without a doubt that she cannot change, so your only option to have any kind of relationship with her would be radical acceptance. Meaning you accept her for exactly who she is and you do what you have to do to minimize her negative impact on you.
I cannot do that, it's why I've stayed NC. For me, I cannot have a relationship of any kind where I have to be the one to 100% be responsible for it.
If she doesn't know what she did by now to hurt you and drive you away, your telling her AGAIN isn't going to do anything. She will never give you that moment of true regret and a sincere apology. If you can't live with that, maybe stay NC.
She’s not taking accountability for anything she’s done. She’s claiming ‘missing reasons’ as per Issendai. She doesn’t show true care for you.
It’s all about HER. SHE hurts. SHE wants. SHE thinks. SHE can’t take it anymore. Her her her.
Don’t let her back in. Not for this ‘I’m sorry if you think I ever did anything wrong, pls do what I want and center MEEEE, never mind your needs’ bullshit.
It sounds like she wants contact for her, not for you. She wasn’t there for you when you needed her to be a mother so…. I wouldn’t get back in touch. She does not sound like she’s ready to rebuild anything, but just wanted contact because she is lonely. If you do get in touch, expect nothing to minimize heartbreak and disappointment.
I'm sorry you had to live through that OP, and I can relate. My mom is also an addict, and before I blocked her (have been NC for 7 years) I got similar emails from her. "Life is short" and "I'm not perfect" are favorite phrases for them.
For me personally, the conditions that would need to be met to reopen any communication with my mom are:
1. She has been consistently receiving treatment from a licensed mental health professional (NOT a life coach or astrologist) for an extended period of time
2. She takes responsibility for her actions and shows genuine remorse for the abuse and neglect
3. She is able to demonstrate significant behavior changes for an extended period of time
Based on your mom's email, none of these are happening. She claims to have no idea why you're not in contact (avoiding responsibility) and it's all about HER and her feelings. No remorse or real concern for you, or how her behavior impacted you.
My advice is to take your time, keep talking it over with your therapist, and (if you want to), explore the idea of what conditions your mom would need to meet for you to want to reopen the door for a relationship with her. Maybe that ship has sailed and you never want to speak to her again under any condition, which is also ok. And you can communicate that to her (like the below) or not.
*Mom, the reason we're not in contact is because you neglected us during our childhood, put us in dangerous situations, and continue to prioritize your own feelings above our well-being. It's clear from your email you are not ready to take responsibility for your actions and change, since you claim not to know why we're angry. I hope you'll take this as an opportunity to reflect and seek professional help from a counselor or therapist. But until you do, I'm not interested in a relationship with you and will be blocking you after this message.*
I have, but it's extremely limited and I am ignoring all hoovering.
I am not visiting, I have ignored every request (I'm not feeding it by saying I can't, anymore, I told them once when I reconnected and I am not repeating myself) and they have stopped.
I think they know they're on thin ice because it was over a year, the phone still isn't unblocked and I am standing my ground.
Better living through modern medicine, ie my meds are working now with a switch, has helped me not get emotionally invested like I used to (this was a me problem, as an aside, I'm not saying anyone else has a mental illness misdiagnosis).
I do want to say that with my bipolar 2 diagnosis, I am acutely aware that this runs in my family and nobody else is dealing with it.
But yes, shiny spine plus Lamotrigine here!
Without even reading what your typed in your post I can say don't talk to her. I've seen this sort of thing more than once. "Explain to me exactly how I've wronged you" is some real bullshit. No. You own up to it. You know basic morals. You know what right and wrong is. Don't make me go through all this emotional labor just because I have hope that if I'm precise enough you just might get it.
Don’t do it! Protect your hard won peace from this woman who was supposed to protect you but instead selfishly neglected you.
I’m almost 3 years NC and never plan to go back and my parents weren’t even half as bad as how you described your mom.
"I know I wasn't the perfect mother"
This always cracks me up. As if we are NC with them because they were not "perfect".
NC is the consequence of having been neglectful and/or abusive. Neglectful and/or abusive parents are not owed a relationship. They had that \*ucking chance to develop a lasting relationship when we were a captive audience our entire childhood.
"If I get what it was". What BS. I'd send her the list and tell her to leave you the duck alone.
I don't think it's wrong to open the door back up if you think your mom is genuinely willing to listen and take accountability. The issue is if you have already told her what upset/hurt you before going no contact, then reopening the conversation is likely to just be more of the same, since she says she doesn't know why you're not talking go her. It's up to you, do you think it's true she doesn't know? Or would you say you've gone over it with her in the past?
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Base on my experience, I wish I did not open contact for the hundred time because it was only good at the beginning and after few weeks, she is back to counting everything that she did for me, that she is a good mother, blah blah blah… she is permanently blocked now and will not be reestablishing any contact in the future.
From 17-35 I would go with ling stretches of low or no contact and always reach back out because what kind of daughter just cuts off their mother? Sigh.
I finally went full no contact 12 years ago (this month!) and its still a struggle not to try again. She contacted me 2 years ago via message and it was the same bs of "why won't you contact me" when my address and contact info has been the same for decades.
Just dont do it.
I did. I went NC for almost three years and some weird circumstances made me break that (I share an out of state guardianship with her boyfriend).
Long story short - it was a mistake. She wasn't grateful, and she just continued to act as she did before, reminding me why I went NC the last time. Actually, I think this time it was worse.
It's been two years since I went NC this time and I have no plans of ever changing that. Life is better without my mother (if you can call her that).
If, during the entire NC, she cannot think of a single thing she might have done wrong...she's not upset bc she misses you.
She's upset bc she's not in control.
Also, it's a common feature of dysfunctional families that abusers are convinced if they just wait long enough, the victim(s) will forget or forgive or mellow out or whatever.
Time has allowed the abuser to rewrite history in their own head, so they think you should lie about everything, too, to accommodate them. Who cares if it harms you (yet again).
They're sure, if they hold out long enough, their victims will give up on accountability.
That's about as foolish as saying that we are healed from childhood trauma if we just wait long enough.
The healing journey in adulthood to address childhood trauma is wholly worthwhile, but it's frankly also a lot of work, time, effort, focus.
I notice she's done none of that.
Besides, if she's hurt or upset, that's really all that matters to her. If she's upset, everyone else is responsible for fixing it 🙃
Don't break NC if you value yourself.
She wants everything to go back to the way it was. But that's not how life works. Nor is it something a victim should ever agree to participate in. For all the reasons you went NC in the first place, agreeing to her garbage terms will only lead to retraumatization.
She doesn’t understand what she did was neglectful….was she neglected? Is she in therapy? Willing to hear you and be accountable? If so, yes. It doesn’t look like she gets it from this note.
After many years of estrangement (I finally went NC when I realised my children were at risk of experiencing the same treatment I'd tolerated for too long), my mother contacted me and asked if I would please meet with her. I accepted. I had been in therapy and was doing well, psychologically and emotionally.
We met at a place of my choosing, where I felt safe, and we met alone. When we sat down, she folded her hands on the table, looked me in the eye, and said (paraphrasing because it was a while ago):
I know I have hurt you terribly, since you were a child. I know I was a bad mother and I don't have the right to ask to meet with you. I hurt you physically and emotionally. I let you down many times.
If you have anything you need to say to me, anything at all, about me, my behaviour, how I've hurt you, I am listening. I am not here to defend myself. I am here to listen if you need me to hear you. I have never listened before.
And I did tell her everything. About how her physical, verbal, and emotional abuse affected me. How her alcoholism absolutely ruined my childhood. How she parentified me with my two younger siblings. And how she married, left, and went back to the man who molested me from before I was 5 years old, until I was 13, despite me telling her what he had done. And then I asked her the big question, the one I asked years ago and got hit and sworn at for asking: Did. You. Know.
And her response was 'I think I always knew. And I failed you in the worst possible way for reasons I don't even understand myself, except that they were selfish. I have no excuse.'
At no point in that hours long meeting did she make any excuses or try and explain her way out of anything. And when she apologised, there were no 'buts'. And she never asked 'But what did I do?????'. They know exactly what they did or didn't do.
If my mother had started the conversation with 'what did I do???', I would have got up and left. If she'd attempted to make even one excuse, I'd have left. And if she'd done the 'I'm sorry but...' thing, end of conversation. She had done the work, sorted herself and her shit out (been clean for 3 years), and I was ready to listen, on my terms.
We had two good, if careful, years after that before she passed away from aggressive cancer (diagnosed a few months after we reconnected). I will always be grateful we had that time, even if I was always careful not to let go completely, and I was with her right to the end.
I'm sharing because my mother did the work, acknowledged what she had done and allowed to be done (stepfather was very abusive), and showed genuine self-awareness and remorse. And I chose to forgive her.
My father, on the other hand (they got divorced when I was very young and he's just never bothered at all - I also cut contact when it impacted badly on my children), is...
"But what did I do?? If only I knew what I'd done!!!" So, we remain NC and he can keep posting in his groups for Estranged Parents.
All the best, OP. Protect yourself.
I did open the door once after about 2 years of NC to do virtual therapy with my mom. I did not talk to her or see her outside of therapy. In the end, the result was the same. She will not change and I am still NC. They either make a sincere apology and want to change, or they don't. I at least have some peace of mind that I "tried everything" but yeah, make sure your expectations match your reality.
I am in a group chat with my family which includes my estranged mom. So she gets to hear my news, thoughts, pics of kids. She sometimes tries to engage me.
There has been a death among my childhood friends and I need to return "home" where I will stay with a brother, but there will also be a birthday for one of his kids, so it seems inevitable that we will be in the same room (for the first time in 22 years).
It almost seems simpler to be civil, even warm. I don't want nor need the drama of anything more contentious. I just don't know if either of us will break down. It doesn't help that I'm raw from the tragedy of my childhood best friend.
It feels like there's a door there whether I'm ready or not .
When they get old, they want a babysitter. A babysitter, that they can also abuse and feed off of. Even if they’re just in their early 50’s. That’s their retirement plan.
OP don't do it. This message is all about her and takes zero accountability. It's a trap. The way I see it is every word I say to her, or any word I know she'll hear from someone else, is another bullet for her harm gun. It fuels her weapons of destruction. And it doesn't matter what the words are. They'll use anything they can. Good luck and I'm so sorry
No- I made peace with the fact that I'll never willingly contact my father again and I no longer feel any guilt about it- he brought it upon himself. I thought about how much happier I've been since, and I know there's nothing positive he could bring to my life at this point. Trust your gut and do what's best for *you*- don't allow yourself to be emotionally manipulated, and remember the reasons you went NC in the first place. Are you happier since? What would *you* gain from letting them back in? Also consider whether your parent has done anything at all to show they've grown emotionally, reflected on past behaviour, and genuinely want to make amends. If not, would they slip right back into old behaviours?
I occasionally get messages just like this from my NC father. He says he 'loves and misses me so much', and he desperately wants me to contact him. These used to have the desired effect of making me feel guilty and consider *actually* contacting him; but then I noticed "me" and "I" everywhere, and a lack of "I'm sorry" or "I want to make amends for...". He's only feeling sorry for *himself* now that he's alone. I remind myself that he's always been extremely selfish, and most of my life the only attention he paid to me was in the form of emotional and physical torment. So I owe him absolutely nothing.
It's maddening when a parent acts oblivious to the harm they have caused, and to why they are no longer part of our lives. But it's also not our job to explain it to them and in doing so relive a lot of trauma- especially if we don't know how they might react. I imagined finally calling my father out and making him acknowledge everything... But I highly doubt he'd just accept it all and be remorseful; it's much more like him to gaslight me, be dismissive, talk over me: then maybe remind me of rare 'good times' as if they'd cancel out the bad. I decided it's not worth the gamble and I'd probably just be disappointed or angry.
She is not ready to get back in contact with you. If you want contact though…I think you should do the following. Look and see if there is an estranged parent/child therapist in your area who understands and leans towards the child/correct point of view. You go to the therapist and explain the situation. Your mom has to go to the therapist AND you will not have contact with her until you can call the therapist independently and they say your mother is ready/understands what she did/why there is estrangement. And then your first several contacts will take place with that therapist present. If she does not go or do the work that is that. Good luck to you. I hope you can find peace no matter what happens . You deserve it!
Yeah,.. NO!
They only get in touch (in my experience) because they WANT something. Your money, time, attention, care.
After never receiving anything from them, I have NOTHING for them and I’m not trying to upset MY life AGAIN for anyone! ESPECIALLY someone who cares for themselves MUCH more than they would EVER care for me or my family!
Move on and ignore!
I've received very similar "I don't know what I did" messages, and I did not and will not reopen contact. That in itself is showing a lack of accountability, acknowledgement or responsibility. She clearly was present back then and knows where she screwed up. If it were an apology with the exact instances and taking accountability or mentioning working on themselves first through therapy and that they will reach out once in a more healed space, my response would be different. This yells to me, "I'm uncomfortable with the consequences for my actions, so fix it, because I do not want to face it".
Parents of Estranged Adult Children are NOT welcome to participate in this sub, you are banned. This sub is for adult children dealing with estrangement from a parent.
Parents of Estranged Adult Children are NOT welcome to participate in this sub, you are banned. This sub is for adult children dealing with estrangement from a parent.
Based off this message, I would not recommend contacting this person.
I agree completely. She does t know what she did? In what world is leaving an 8 year home alone ok? If she was really willing to take responsibility she could have listed things SHE KNOWS she did and apologized for that as a starting point. Starting off with denial of knowledge is not the way to make amends. I cut my entire family off when my dad died 10 years ago and the huge mistake of letting them back in. It took me five years of therapy to walk away from them all again and I did it because I saw patterns repeating with daughter. If it hadn’t have started again, I probably could have put up with it so my daughter would have grandparents and great grandparents. I live by this now; the quality of your relationships affects the quality of your life. If you don’t make my life better in some way, then there’s no reason I should be sharing it with you. Good luck! Do what feels right for you. But I think you already know that answer.
This a thousand times over. My father wasn’t this bad… but he was BAD and I refuse to ever open that door again.
Abusers always think they weren't that bad and don't deserve, because they see abuse as "anything worse than what I was willing to do". So if she was willing to leave young kids alone at night to drink and do coke at a bar... a REAL abuser who "deserves" no contact would be someone who didn't come back from after days. An abuser who didn't come back after days would say a REAL abuser who "deserves" no contact would be someone who never came back. Someone who never came back would reach out to their estranged kids one day and say they "deserve" to be in contact with you because a REAL abuser who deserves no contact would be someone who never reached out. On and on... Sorry for your experience OP, it sounds absolutely awful. Hugs.
This is such a spot-on comment. Wow.
I don't have experience with that, so I cannot answer you direct question. However, first thought: If you haven't done this with the text, go through and count the "I" statements. Really, it's all about her and her feelings. Also, her statement >I am willing to accept responsiblity for anything I've done to you.. if I knew what it was is 🐂💩. Given your brief explanation in your post, if she cannot identify at least ONE thing she did on her own, she does not have the emotionally maturity to handle you listing the harmful things she did. If you want to give her the opportunity, tell her that. Tell her that you will not be taking on the emotional labor of explaining the obvious, and until she can independently identify, apologize for, and take accountability for at least some of the harm she cause you and your sister there will be no contact.
This whole post is basically missing missing reasons in a single text.
I legitimately said this out loud at my phone upon reading the text
Yup 😂
Yes. I went NC for five years, we began talking again, then she started up on her typical bullshit and I cut her off again. It's been 11 years this time and I should've done it decades ago.
Same here, I commited the mistake of reconnecting with them after a whole decade of NC. Big mistake. I am back into NC
Same.
I have been in contact for about 8 years. More or less. I think she crossed some boundaries a few months ago. I’m not sure, I don’t have the energy for her drama, I’m tired. Went NC then. I went from NC to LC recently, she doesn’t know yet. Again I have other issues to attend. My history with her has had pro and cons. In your case, nah it really doesn’t seem worth it. For those who want to get in touch, it took decades, and it is never one step, or smooth.
every word and phrase in that email is about her and the affect not having a relationship with you and your sib has on her. she's not ready for any reconciliation except the one in which she comes out on top. it's not going to be worth it. whatever you say to her is going to be minimized or used against you. she is only going to try to defend herself and turn whatever you say back onto you. let her be. you all know why you are NC. she just wants to argue about it with you.
Your huge red flag is the claim that she doesn’t know why you’re angry or what she did. People who are truly ready to make amends and take responsibility for their actions are first ready to admit their wrongdoing — even if that admission is along the lines of “I know I haven’t been a good parent and that I’ve hurt you. I am still working on recognizing exactly what I’ve done and am committed to fixing it.” Anything less than that isn’t an apology; it’s manipulation. I haven’t been NC with my father (my mom died several years ago) nearly as long, and I was an adult before he became a crappy parent, but I recognize your mother’s “apology” very well. My advice? If you respond at all, tell her what I’ve told my father from the beginning: when she can admit what she’s done and starts getting help to fix herself, the door to reconciliation *might* be *conditionally* cracked open. But without that, it stays firmly closed.
The thing is, nobody just chooses to one day stop speaking to someone. There were years of explaining and pleading for change. That’s true for me, I bet it was true for you. The idea that she has “no idea!” what is wrong is ridiculous. You don’t have to be mom of the year to know that drugs, leaving your children, never showing up for them etc, is wrong. It’s not rocket science here. *She* feels bad and she wants to be absolved so that she doesn’t have to feel bad anymore. She knows she fucked up. If she doesn’t know, she could ask a therapist. But she won’t. She just wants you to talk to her so she can stop feeling bad. If you want to talk to her that’s fine. But not to rehash and explain what she did wrong. That’s just going to make you feel bad again. If you want to talk to her you’re going to have to accept that *she doesn’t think she did anything wrong* and go from there.
When my husband died, several of his old friends called me to express their condolences, but I soon realized that the REAL reason that they were calling me is because they had treated my husband very poorly in the past, and they were trying to make themselves feel better.
💯 this
I certainly would not if receiving such a message. my red flag detector went off at those: "I am willing to accept responsibility for anything I've done to you.. if I knew what it was" well duh, think harder. if they'd be able to really see their mistakes - by naming some - that'd be proof for maturity or at least self reflection. "i cannot let this go on any longer..Life is too short for this" so life being short is a more important factor in this than what you want? geez.
She may be saying life is short so she needs to get her retirement plan (OP) in order. As mine is getting older, she's playing this card.
i miss you 'terribly' - yeah, no thanks
She probably needs someone to move in with and live off of while she brings her drugs and paramours into their house
🗑 not worth it. This message shows zero reflection, self-awareness, or remorse. It's all about me me me.
It’s highly likely that if you respond and list out the reasons you’ve given here, she’ll come back with the classic lines like, “I don’t remember it that way,” “it wasn’t that bad,” “my childhood was worse than yours,” “I did the best I could,” “nobody can be a perfect parent,” etc. At best, an “I’m sorry you feel that way even though it isn’t my fault because I did the best I could and therefore you must forgive me and let me back into your life.”
I received an email just like this after 3 years NC and information I can’t share without triggering myself… anyways - it went just like this. Within the first two sentences they played the victim over something we were victims over (it was about what someone thought of them - that they didn’t care about us - shocking it wasn’t just me anymore 😅) Almost verbatim “I don’t know what I possibly did” after a history that would have your jaw open (like yours) and decades of emails? They threw out our number and sold my life insurance policy after they had manipulated me into signing it over. Then all the stalking, false accusations and calls to police… I mean I’m beginning to think they read from the same script. There is a difference between parents who are able to pay the bills and who aren’t and I was in the latter category but our utilities never really got turned off I don’t think. My god I just read it all - yeah no my son didn’t grow up with that. I left that so he wouldn’t. But I did what I did to provide the most stable life I could and that meant staying single - maybe this is why we have a good relationship. I think you have every right to decide for yourself whether someone is good for your physical and mental health. Your terms can be flexible to adjust to your boundaries. But this letter sounds soooooo much like the one I got two years ago. Guess what? My dad called around to find my son’s school (he’s 18 and graduated) weeks after he had graduated. This just happened and why I’m a new member even though I’ve been 10 years estranged. Look for changed behavior. Anything other than that is manipulation. 15 years later. 10 of that estranged and they just don’t change I’m sorry. 😢 I can tell you right now what I did as a Mom and I didn’t even need a letter 10 years later. I also told my son I am always here to discuss anything and that I would do whatever I ever needed to validate any pain or hurt I may have caused. He claims I haven’t but I told him it may not even have surfaced yet. Don’t matter - he matters and his feelings and his experiences. That’s how I would have written an email to my estranged child.
I commited the mistake of reconnecting with them after a long decade or more, big mistake!!. The damage and financial abuse was beyond any possibility of reconciliation. This time I am on strong and forever NC.
Yep same story here
This is exactly the kind of shit my dad used to send me to try and get me back. I gave in a couple times and very much regretted letting him back in my life. Of all the things she said in this email the, “I’ll accept what I did wrong…if knew what it was” or whatever, is the most important sentence. This is a very standard Abusive Person move. It’s mean to lure you into conversation where you tell them what they did wrong, they toss you the Ol’ “I’m sorry you feel that way”, and BAM- you’re back in contact just like they wanted. Don’t fall for it.
If I got a message that said something like “after you went NC I decided to do some self reflection. I began therapy weekly on X. Through that I’ve understood more that when I did XYZ that was hurtful. I now understand I never took the responsibility for that I should have and I’m sorry. If you’re open to reconnecting I would like that and am open to using a therapist to help us move forward and build a relationship “ Then sure I’d probably reconnect. That’s yet to come. And this is definitely not it
If you do it, do it for *you*. Not for her. She isn’t going to change. Ever. But if there are things you need to say, and you need to say them specifically to her? Not a trusted friend or therapist but actually her? Ok. Say them. Do it so you can say what you need to say. That’s all. But don’t expect anything to change. Ever. This is for YOU. You are in charge of protecting you. You can step back onto the carousel for a moment, say what you need to say, then step right back off it. But I agree with most of the other commenters here, be sure you really need to first.
Im convinced that when a parent wants you to tell them what bad things they did, it’s because they want to know what bad things you REMEMBER. I’ve noticed parents never say ‘is it because I did (bad thing)? Because I am so sorry for that.’ Parents will say ‘I wasn’t a perfect parent’ but never actually say what imperfect things they did.
The importance of this point cannot be overstated.
The victim card is being played so hard here
I gave my ex-mom one chance after 8 or 9 years of NC. My grandparents were the middlemen. My grandpa wanted us to just hug and forget everything. I told him it wasn't happening. My ex-mom made it clear she thinks I've fucked up the entire family (scapegoating much?) because I hate her for no reason. I remember saying at multiple points in the meeting that we would both have to admit our wrongdoings and apologize. This was the key to moving forward. I was willing to do this. I even started out by mentioning one or two things I know I messed up on. But she had no response at all. Zero desire to admit any wrongdoing on her part. I also mentioned how there's a huge elephant in the room everyone keeps ignoring and nobody wants to address it. She was super pissed at me the entire time until I dropped the bomb: "Your husband is a pervert." She rolled her eyes at me in the most guilty look I've ever seen in my life. She said nothing for the rest of the conversation, except how she feels like we are ganging up on her. She then took off, claiming she had somewhere important to be. (At 7:10pm?) She also took off in a different direction of where the cars are parked. That was it. That was the last time I talked to her. She probably ran home to cry to her pedophile husband, who manipulates her like hell. Moral of the story: don't waste your time on these people.
My mom seems to legitimately believe i had a magical childhood instead of abuse and stress and screaming and police and threats. She's never going to re-write the fantasy she built in her head. She will die thinking she's the victim.
She thinks you’re NC to punish her. You’re NC to protect your peace. If she feels punished and hated, that’s on her. I’m sorry she won’t just leave you alone to live your life.
I can save you the bother of meeting up with her. This will be her apology: “I know that I wasn’t perfect but I did the best I could. I’m sorry if that wasn’t good enough for you. But it wasn’t as bad as you keep saying; look at you now. You turned out ok so I must have done something right.”
“If I knew what it was”😂 why don’t they have any Remembrance
OP, do you have any family or friends in common with this "mother" of yours, who you keep in touch with and she also keeps in touch with? I ask because this message really just reeks of a whitewash attempt, like it's something she's writing in order to show other people how much she tries so hard to connect with these daughters of hers, how she simply has "no idea what possibly could be amiss, poor me, whatsoever did I ever do," etc. Then you get painted as the shitty daughters who abandoned this poor little old lady, yadda yadda, you know the drill. If she's writing this for the benefit of mutual family, to basically frame you up as shitty daughters while she paints herself as the aggrieved party, then maybe it would be worth considering just showing them your OP above — so they can read for themselves the kind of mother she really was.
Of course people have, but you'll find most people regret it. Your therapist is right, as long as you manage your expectations, you can do whatever you think is best. At this point, you know without a doubt that she cannot change, so your only option to have any kind of relationship with her would be radical acceptance. Meaning you accept her for exactly who she is and you do what you have to do to minimize her negative impact on you. I cannot do that, it's why I've stayed NC. For me, I cannot have a relationship of any kind where I have to be the one to 100% be responsible for it. If she doesn't know what she did by now to hurt you and drive you away, your telling her AGAIN isn't going to do anything. She will never give you that moment of true regret and a sincere apology. If you can't live with that, maybe stay NC.
She’s not taking accountability for anything she’s done. She’s claiming ‘missing reasons’ as per Issendai. She doesn’t show true care for you. It’s all about HER. SHE hurts. SHE wants. SHE thinks. SHE can’t take it anymore. Her her her. Don’t let her back in. Not for this ‘I’m sorry if you think I ever did anything wrong, pls do what I want and center MEEEE, never mind your needs’ bullshit.
She knows exactly what she did.
They always know...
Don't bother replying. She's clearly not even close to accepting that she was a terrible parent, and honestly, she has zero idea what love really is.
‘…if I knew what it was…’ The missing reasons have gone missing.
Trust your instincts about this situation.
It sounds like she wants contact for her, not for you. She wasn’t there for you when you needed her to be a mother so…. I wouldn’t get back in touch. She does not sound like she’s ready to rebuild anything, but just wanted contact because she is lonely. If you do get in touch, expect nothing to minimize heartbreak and disappointment.
Yes, I have. 5 years later, we don't speak anymore. Nothing had changed.
There are a lot of I statements in there. I don't think she's thinking about you at all when she wrote this
I'm sorry you had to live through that OP, and I can relate. My mom is also an addict, and before I blocked her (have been NC for 7 years) I got similar emails from her. "Life is short" and "I'm not perfect" are favorite phrases for them. For me personally, the conditions that would need to be met to reopen any communication with my mom are: 1. She has been consistently receiving treatment from a licensed mental health professional (NOT a life coach or astrologist) for an extended period of time 2. She takes responsibility for her actions and shows genuine remorse for the abuse and neglect 3. She is able to demonstrate significant behavior changes for an extended period of time Based on your mom's email, none of these are happening. She claims to have no idea why you're not in contact (avoiding responsibility) and it's all about HER and her feelings. No remorse or real concern for you, or how her behavior impacted you. My advice is to take your time, keep talking it over with your therapist, and (if you want to), explore the idea of what conditions your mom would need to meet for you to want to reopen the door for a relationship with her. Maybe that ship has sailed and you never want to speak to her again under any condition, which is also ok. And you can communicate that to her (like the below) or not. *Mom, the reason we're not in contact is because you neglected us during our childhood, put us in dangerous situations, and continue to prioritize your own feelings above our well-being. It's clear from your email you are not ready to take responsibility for your actions and change, since you claim not to know why we're angry. I hope you'll take this as an opportunity to reflect and seek professional help from a counselor or therapist. But until you do, I'm not interested in a relationship with you and will be blocking you after this message.*
I have, but it's extremely limited and I am ignoring all hoovering. I am not visiting, I have ignored every request (I'm not feeding it by saying I can't, anymore, I told them once when I reconnected and I am not repeating myself) and they have stopped. I think they know they're on thin ice because it was over a year, the phone still isn't unblocked and I am standing my ground.
Applauding your shiny spine!
Better living through modern medicine, ie my meds are working now with a switch, has helped me not get emotionally invested like I used to (this was a me problem, as an aside, I'm not saying anyone else has a mental illness misdiagnosis). I do want to say that with my bipolar 2 diagnosis, I am acutely aware that this runs in my family and nobody else is dealing with it. But yes, shiny spine plus Lamotrigine here!
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
I DONT KNOW WHAT I DID - oh, they know
Without even reading what your typed in your post I can say don't talk to her. I've seen this sort of thing more than once. "Explain to me exactly how I've wronged you" is some real bullshit. No. You own up to it. You know basic morals. You know what right and wrong is. Don't make me go through all this emotional labor just because I have hope that if I'm precise enough you just might get it.
Don’t do it! Protect your hard won peace from this woman who was supposed to protect you but instead selfishly neglected you. I’m almost 3 years NC and never plan to go back and my parents weren’t even half as bad as how you described your mom.
"I know I wasn't the perfect mother" This always cracks me up. As if we are NC with them because they were not "perfect". NC is the consequence of having been neglectful and/or abusive. Neglectful and/or abusive parents are not owed a relationship. They had that \*ucking chance to develop a lasting relationship when we were a captive audience our entire childhood. "If I get what it was". What BS. I'd send her the list and tell her to leave you the duck alone.
I don't think it's wrong to open the door back up if you think your mom is genuinely willing to listen and take accountability. The issue is if you have already told her what upset/hurt you before going no contact, then reopening the conversation is likely to just be more of the same, since she says she doesn't know why you're not talking go her. It's up to you, do you think it's true she doesn't know? Or would you say you've gone over it with her in the past?
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Base on my experience, I wish I did not open contact for the hundred time because it was only good at the beginning and after few weeks, she is back to counting everything that she did for me, that she is a good mother, blah blah blah… she is permanently blocked now and will not be reestablishing any contact in the future.
Nothing in the message suggests that anything has changed. The whole message is about her needs, not yours. Be careful whatever you do.
From 17-35 I would go with ling stretches of low or no contact and always reach back out because what kind of daughter just cuts off their mother? Sigh. I finally went full no contact 12 years ago (this month!) and its still a struggle not to try again. She contacted me 2 years ago via message and it was the same bs of "why won't you contact me" when my address and contact info has been the same for decades. Just dont do it.
I did. I went NC for almost three years and some weird circumstances made me break that (I share an out of state guardianship with her boyfriend). Long story short - it was a mistake. She wasn't grateful, and she just continued to act as she did before, reminding me why I went NC the last time. Actually, I think this time it was worse. It's been two years since I went NC this time and I have no plans of ever changing that. Life is better without my mother (if you can call her that).
If, during the entire NC, she cannot think of a single thing she might have done wrong...she's not upset bc she misses you. She's upset bc she's not in control. Also, it's a common feature of dysfunctional families that abusers are convinced if they just wait long enough, the victim(s) will forget or forgive or mellow out or whatever. Time has allowed the abuser to rewrite history in their own head, so they think you should lie about everything, too, to accommodate them. Who cares if it harms you (yet again). They're sure, if they hold out long enough, their victims will give up on accountability. That's about as foolish as saying that we are healed from childhood trauma if we just wait long enough. The healing journey in adulthood to address childhood trauma is wholly worthwhile, but it's frankly also a lot of work, time, effort, focus. I notice she's done none of that. Besides, if she's hurt or upset, that's really all that matters to her. If she's upset, everyone else is responsible for fixing it 🙃 Don't break NC if you value yourself. She wants everything to go back to the way it was. But that's not how life works. Nor is it something a victim should ever agree to participate in. For all the reasons you went NC in the first place, agreeing to her garbage terms will only lead to retraumatization.
She doesn’t understand what she did was neglectful….was she neglected? Is she in therapy? Willing to hear you and be accountable? If so, yes. It doesn’t look like she gets it from this note.
After many years of estrangement (I finally went NC when I realised my children were at risk of experiencing the same treatment I'd tolerated for too long), my mother contacted me and asked if I would please meet with her. I accepted. I had been in therapy and was doing well, psychologically and emotionally. We met at a place of my choosing, where I felt safe, and we met alone. When we sat down, she folded her hands on the table, looked me in the eye, and said (paraphrasing because it was a while ago): I know I have hurt you terribly, since you were a child. I know I was a bad mother and I don't have the right to ask to meet with you. I hurt you physically and emotionally. I let you down many times. If you have anything you need to say to me, anything at all, about me, my behaviour, how I've hurt you, I am listening. I am not here to defend myself. I am here to listen if you need me to hear you. I have never listened before. And I did tell her everything. About how her physical, verbal, and emotional abuse affected me. How her alcoholism absolutely ruined my childhood. How she parentified me with my two younger siblings. And how she married, left, and went back to the man who molested me from before I was 5 years old, until I was 13, despite me telling her what he had done. And then I asked her the big question, the one I asked years ago and got hit and sworn at for asking: Did. You. Know. And her response was 'I think I always knew. And I failed you in the worst possible way for reasons I don't even understand myself, except that they were selfish. I have no excuse.' At no point in that hours long meeting did she make any excuses or try and explain her way out of anything. And when she apologised, there were no 'buts'. And she never asked 'But what did I do?????'. They know exactly what they did or didn't do. If my mother had started the conversation with 'what did I do???', I would have got up and left. If she'd attempted to make even one excuse, I'd have left. And if she'd done the 'I'm sorry but...' thing, end of conversation. She had done the work, sorted herself and her shit out (been clean for 3 years), and I was ready to listen, on my terms. We had two good, if careful, years after that before she passed away from aggressive cancer (diagnosed a few months after we reconnected). I will always be grateful we had that time, even if I was always careful not to let go completely, and I was with her right to the end. I'm sharing because my mother did the work, acknowledged what she had done and allowed to be done (stepfather was very abusive), and showed genuine self-awareness and remorse. And I chose to forgive her. My father, on the other hand (they got divorced when I was very young and he's just never bothered at all - I also cut contact when it impacted badly on my children), is... "But what did I do?? If only I knew what I'd done!!!" So, we remain NC and he can keep posting in his groups for Estranged Parents. All the best, OP. Protect yourself.
I did open the door once after about 2 years of NC to do virtual therapy with my mom. I did not talk to her or see her outside of therapy. In the end, the result was the same. She will not change and I am still NC. They either make a sincere apology and want to change, or they don't. I at least have some peace of mind that I "tried everything" but yeah, make sure your expectations match your reality.
Forgot to add- it's very easy to feel sorry for them when they are feeling sorry for themselves.
I am in a group chat with my family which includes my estranged mom. So she gets to hear my news, thoughts, pics of kids. She sometimes tries to engage me. There has been a death among my childhood friends and I need to return "home" where I will stay with a brother, but there will also be a birthday for one of his kids, so it seems inevitable that we will be in the same room (for the first time in 22 years). It almost seems simpler to be civil, even warm. I don't want nor need the drama of anything more contentious. I just don't know if either of us will break down. It doesn't help that I'm raw from the tragedy of my childhood best friend. It feels like there's a door there whether I'm ready or not .
“I’M NOT GONNA BE IGNORED!!!!” — Glenn Close, “Fatal Attraction”
When they get old, they want a babysitter. A babysitter, that they can also abuse and feed off of. Even if they’re just in their early 50’s. That’s their retirement plan.
OP don't do it. This message is all about her and takes zero accountability. It's a trap. The way I see it is every word I say to her, or any word I know she'll hear from someone else, is another bullet for her harm gun. It fuels her weapons of destruction. And it doesn't matter what the words are. They'll use anything they can. Good luck and I'm so sorry
No- I made peace with the fact that I'll never willingly contact my father again and I no longer feel any guilt about it- he brought it upon himself. I thought about how much happier I've been since, and I know there's nothing positive he could bring to my life at this point. Trust your gut and do what's best for *you*- don't allow yourself to be emotionally manipulated, and remember the reasons you went NC in the first place. Are you happier since? What would *you* gain from letting them back in? Also consider whether your parent has done anything at all to show they've grown emotionally, reflected on past behaviour, and genuinely want to make amends. If not, would they slip right back into old behaviours? I occasionally get messages just like this from my NC father. He says he 'loves and misses me so much', and he desperately wants me to contact him. These used to have the desired effect of making me feel guilty and consider *actually* contacting him; but then I noticed "me" and "I" everywhere, and a lack of "I'm sorry" or "I want to make amends for...". He's only feeling sorry for *himself* now that he's alone. I remind myself that he's always been extremely selfish, and most of my life the only attention he paid to me was in the form of emotional and physical torment. So I owe him absolutely nothing. It's maddening when a parent acts oblivious to the harm they have caused, and to why they are no longer part of our lives. But it's also not our job to explain it to them and in doing so relive a lot of trauma- especially if we don't know how they might react. I imagined finally calling my father out and making him acknowledge everything... But I highly doubt he'd just accept it all and be remorseful; it's much more like him to gaslight me, be dismissive, talk over me: then maybe remind me of rare 'good times' as if they'd cancel out the bad. I decided it's not worth the gamble and I'd probably just be disappointed or angry.
She is not ready to get back in contact with you. If you want contact though…I think you should do the following. Look and see if there is an estranged parent/child therapist in your area who understands and leans towards the child/correct point of view. You go to the therapist and explain the situation. Your mom has to go to the therapist AND you will not have contact with her until you can call the therapist independently and they say your mother is ready/understands what she did/why there is estrangement. And then your first several contacts will take place with that therapist present. If she does not go or do the work that is that. Good luck to you. I hope you can find peace no matter what happens . You deserve it!
Yeah,.. NO! They only get in touch (in my experience) because they WANT something. Your money, time, attention, care. After never receiving anything from them, I have NOTHING for them and I’m not trying to upset MY life AGAIN for anyone! ESPECIALLY someone who cares for themselves MUCH more than they would EVER care for me or my family! Move on and ignore!
It ended the same way previous ways ended
I've received very similar "I don't know what I did" messages, and I did not and will not reopen contact. That in itself is showing a lack of accountability, acknowledgement or responsibility. She clearly was present back then and knows where she screwed up. If it were an apology with the exact instances and taking accountability or mentioning working on themselves first through therapy and that they will reach out once in a more healed space, my response would be different. This yells to me, "I'm uncomfortable with the consequences for my actions, so fix it, because I do not want to face it".
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Parents of Estranged Adult Children are NOT welcome to participate in this sub, you are banned. This sub is for adult children dealing with estrangement from a parent.
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Parents of Estranged Adult Children are NOT welcome to participate in this sub, you are banned. This sub is for adult children dealing with estrangement from a parent.