Exactly. I want a rotting corpse like [Set](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Set?file=FO01_NPC_Set_N.png) from Fallout 1, not discount Ryan Reynolds Deadpool.
Ghouls have never been written anywhere as close to as interesting as they were in Fallout 1, even though a lot of narrative potential ended up on the cutting room floor. RIP to a real one.
Listen: if the show doesn’t introduce the Enclave while utilizing the plot of my Wasteland Warfare campaign where they find the find themselves on the path to redemption and becoming a benevolentish force in the wasteland, down to the name of the group and the individuals in it appearing exactly as they exist in my head, I’ll have no choice but to consider the show a resounding failure.
Either Todd Howard scans my brain and includes the tale of the isolated Enclave Company Charlie struggling to survive after the fall of Raven Rock, or this show isn’t canon. I don’t make the rules, I just happen to be the one who decides what is and isn’t officially canon in Fallout because I’m a Very Special Boy.
>!/s, hopefully obviously!<
Jesus, I haven’t been keeping up on anything with the show. Was there a chance it wasn’t going to be exactly this? I’m pre writing all my neg reviews now.
Dude, they're not even including the part where pre-War FEV research on badgers lead to the creation of the apex predator of the Glowing Tundra, the mythological [Hodag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodag).
(Which reminds me, I still need to 3D print, base, and paint my Hodags.)
Hey some people actually think that way if you check the other fallout subs. Some think legions owns the area or NCR owns the dam and new Vegas and ect.
I guess that’s a beautiful flaw of fallout is the endings are what you make of them until proven otherwise which is what leads to a lot of infighting and debates. Only the first 3 have a good established base of canon where as NV/4 don’t as of this moment which we might finally get in the tv show.
I wish they would have used a new area for the show so it wouldn’t have effect anything but I guess they wanted to go with an area that’s known to the fanbase to grab attention.
Oh, I'm aware.
It's also why I've stuck my campaign in Wisconsin. While I think Chicago is a real possiblity for a setting someday and it's near enough to be relevant, it's still generally an area where I can tell my own little story to myself without bumping into the world as it's established. Like... we're probably never getting an actual Fallout centered around Green Bay. At most, someday my interactions with the Midwestern Brotherhood and the Enclave Chicago Outposts will no longer jive with canon. When that day comes, it's my own damn problem.
Unless Todd wants to steal my story. See, Green Bay is still called Green Bay, but now it's a more literal name on account of the radiation and Super Mutants. And there's a group of Raiders sailing down from the frozen wilds of UPland in the North in makeshift longships, who have taken to dressing like Vikings and are lead by a myterious figure clad in Power Armor adorned with Norse runes. The UPlanders speak a musical dialect which vaguely resembles English, as their forefathers did before the War.
Legendary Cheesehead Mutant sounds terrifying. Imagine a Packers fan full sprinting at you with a blinking mini nuke and wearing their favorite linebacker Jersey now shredded from their swole.
At some point, I 100% intend to force a squad from my settlement to have to face off with Super Mutants in a very [Mutant League Football](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_League_Football)\-inspired scenario. And, yes, the ball is going to be a mininuke that can go off.
With that said, as malleable as the rules are for Wasteland Warfare, I still need to hammer out how I'm gonna handle it mechanically. Thankfully, I'm early in the campaign and it'll be a bit until we're ready for that showdown.
The leader of the Super Mutants that has overrun Green Bay is known only as The Shepherd. The Shepherd is a mutant prophet who claims to have had visions guiding him to the city, where he believes mutant salvation under a new "master" awaits them. His main fortress is [The Field of Lambs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambeau_Field), named both for his mutant flock that resides within and for the routine slaughter that takes place on its concencrated grounds. They believe the Field of Lambs to be a holy site: humans regularly worshipped their God on the Sabbath, and every Sabbath the Field was the site of worship by enthralled masses through ritualized gladitorial combat. What other explanation could their possibly be?
He also just might be a batshit insane Nightkin, who knows!
I'm sorry, but that's the absolute worst trash-tier fanfiction I've ever read in my life. I'll be furious if the show looks like that. The only way it'll be even remotely acceptable is if it's Enclave Company *Delta* who does that.
Listen, I flirted with Delta, but I wanted a nod to that [other remnant of the pre-apocalypse American government/military](https://battletanx.fandom.com/wiki/Charlie_Company) from the 1998 Nintendo 64 classic, *Battletanx.*
Because, while I can't remember what I had for breakfast most days, I do remember Charlie Company were my squad in splitscreen multiplayer *Battletanx*.
I don’t have a problem with the show making it’s canon regarding which factions win in Fallout NV and Fallout 4. If the NCR victory and Brotherhood victory are canon which are probably most likely then I don’t have a problem with that. What I would have a problem with is if the show blatantly disregards the lore between those two factions. It shouldn’t be conceivable for the Brotherhood to have so much power in California since the NCR pretty much kicked their ass and sent them running east. There better be a good explanation for that. And they better not portray the Brotherhood as saints since the East chapter was going down a pretty immoral path by the end of Fallout 4, and their Western chapters were still very isolationist and extremist during the events of New Vegas. Unless its explained somehow that all the chapters decided to reform drastically
I’d love that honestly. The NCR’s imperialist expansion being foiled by House is such a satisfying ending with a sense of poetic justice. Seeing the NCRs government with a much more progressive outlook in the show as a result of their failure in the Mojave would be really interesting. And if Mr House actually makes an appearance too that would be iconic
Honestly if house made an appearance I’d probably die. But it just always made sense to me that it was cannon because you just keep going on after delivering the chip and everything basically stays the same afterwards besides house capitalizing off the dam and making Vegas more secure
>The NCR’s imperialist expansion being foiled by House
Usually, when a person accuses someone of imperialism, you expect them to propose *socialism* as the answer. Not fascism.
>Seeing the NCRs government with a much more progressive outlook in the show as a result of their failure in the Mojave would be really interesting.
I mean first, when has that ever happened? When has a government ever gotten absolutely washed the way the NCR does in the House ending--uncountable resources and lives wasted, territory lost, nation humiliated--and become more *progressive* for it? I mean I can think of a couple *real* big examples from the last couple hundred years that militate strongly in the other direction. For that matter, I can think of at least one major war going on right now that is evidence of the opposite conclusion.
Additionally, when a nation loses, it tends to emulate its vanquisher. When Japan got owned into the toilet by the technologically advanced West (which is a pretty good analog for what happens to the NCR in a House ending!), they spent the next several decades undergoing the fastest industrialization in world history so that they could have what their enemies had. When Germany got punked in World War I, they ended up adopting a more extreme version of the same racial ideologies and anti-social dogmas on which the nations that had defeated them were built. When Russia spent a decade being humiliated over and over again by neoconservative and neoliberal U.S. Presidents, they elected an even nastier piece of work who engaged in imperial adventurism and foreign election meddling and all the other terrible things America does, only he would do them louder and prouder and, somehow, crueler.
If the NCR loses to House in the Mojave, it loses to either fascism or anarcho-libertarianism, depending on how you see House. Neither is progressive.
There's really no way that the NCR comes out of *any* FONV ending more progressive than it was going in, but the House ending would be the one most likely to produce a reactionary right-wing tendency in NCR politics, were it not for the Legion.
>I mean first, when has that ever happened? When has a government ever gotten absolutely washed the way the NCR does in the House ending--uncountable resources and lives wasted, territory lost, nation humiliated--and become more progressive for it?
Yes, that is what is actually most likely - because imperialism was Kimball's angle and if House ending would be canon, this would mean that his pitch of rebuilding the NCR as an imperialist hegemon failed spectacularly. Note that erosion of previous NCR values happened mostly under Kimball so anyone running for president could easily be someone wanting to revive "good old days" - which would mean go back to much more humanitarian angle that was held by NCR under Tandi.
>Additionally, when a nation loses, it tends to emulate its vanquisher.
That happens only when your loss is catastrophic enough - what can be seen in all your examples. Germany, Russia, Japan - all of them suffered catastrophic losses to either their own territory as a direct result of fighting or their economy as an aftereffect of war. This is not the case in NCR, while they suffer a loss, it is only a loss in an expositional war that was aiming to acquire new territory. If losses in wars like these would pivot governments then USA would adapt communism due to war in Vietnam.
>Yes, that is what is actually most likely - because imperialism was Kimball's angle and if House ending would be canon, this would mean that his pitch of rebuilding the NCR as an imperialist hegemon failed spectacularly.
The Japanese Empire responded to a catastrophic embarrassment on the world stage by becoming even more aggressively imperialistic. The remains of the Prussian Empire responded to losing World War I by becoming Nazi Germany. The successor state to the Soviet Union is currently engaged in, what, it's third war of imperial aggression this century? Fourth? Who can keep track?
>Note that erosion of previous NCR values happened mostly under Kimball so anyone running for president could easily be someone wanting to revive "good old days" - which would mean go back to much more humanitarian angle that was held by NCR under Tandi.
That's just not how politicized nostalgia works. There is a reason that the appeal to the "better values" of times past is almost uniquely a right-wing/reactionary rhetorical tool: it's because that's the only kind of political project it can effectively sell. The left wing of the Labour Party, or even the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, are both *motivated* by a desire to return to a more left-leaning era of their parties and their nations, but they don't try to sell their political projects that way.
"Old Labour" doesn't campaign as Old Labour, or even as Red Labour, they campaign through an organization called Momentum. As in, forward motion. Bernie Sanders didn't run as the second coming of FDR, he ran as a voice for the young and the disillusioned who envisioned a better way forward, and he always used the language of forward motion.
You know who *does* campaign on the appeal to the past, other than open reactionaries? Covert reactionaries, like the mainstream establishment of the Labour and Democratic Parties. It was Labour's establishment which brought down Jeremy Corbyn's leadership from within by, in part, appealing to a supposedly calmer, saner, less chaotic (all of which just meant Blairite) past. It was Joe Biden who campaigned as the second coming of FDR, and continues to do so despite clear evidence that campaigning on economic issues isn't working for him.
The appeal to the rose-tinted view of the past is a reactionary tendency, not a liberal, progressive, or revolutionary one. It's fundamentally about revanchism, and that's very much *not what the NCR needs*, just as it's not what any real-world country needs. America didn't need a second Franklin Roosevelt, it needed a first Bernie Sanders. Franklin Roosevelt was equal to the most prominent challenges of his time, but he interned Japanese Americans, he fought to maintain the flagrantly unjust colonial status of America's territories, and he fatefully switched out his left-wing VP for a right-wing Democrat as soon as he knew he was dying and wouldn't last much past his final election.
Similarly, Tandi's benevolent-coded liberalism might be remembered fondly by NCR citizens in hindsight, but she was no less imperial than Kimball is. She was arguably more so. It was under her leadership that Shady Sands became the expansionist project that is the NCR. It was under her leadership that many communities were heavily, aggressively pressured into joining her new liberal democratic juggernaut. It was under the leadership of Tandi--whose father was old enough to remember that liberal democracy and capitalism failed to prevent the near-extinction of the human species and in fact contributed to it--that the NCR was molded in the very image of that same failed ideology.
A return to Tandism is unlikely to be the response to a defeat at Hoover Dam, but if it is, it still won't help. As a man who was well on his way to becoming the President of the United States once said, "Nothing will fundamentally change."
>If losses in wars like these would pivot governments then USA would adapt communism due to war in Vietnam.
You misunderstand me. It is not my position that *governments* respond to humiliating defeats by changing their political projects, nor is it my position that the change in question is simply to follow the example of the one who beat you.
My position is that *cultures* react to humiliating defeats by pivoting to the right, no matter what the politics of the entity that beat them. Americans responded to the humiliation of Vietnam by pivoting to the right *before it was even over*, and emphasized that choice resoundingly in 1972. If the man they elected hadn't covered himself in shit, they would have voted for the next nominee from his party too, and as soon as they gave themselves a four-year palate cleanser, they voted in the most right-wing President since Calvin Coolidge.
What they did *not* do is fundamentally examine the contradictions and tensions inherent in a society, an economy, and a political system which profess to prize liberty and the promotion of higher standards of living while actively suppressing both all over the world, which present themselves as beacons of enlightened humanity but conduct themselves as savage brutes, whose self-narratives are of heroism but whose actions only ever seem to beget hatred. They did not re-examine the imperial agenda.
In fact, contrary to popular narratives, Americans didn't get more suspicious of authority as a result of Vietnam and Watergate. They got *more trusting* of it. Sure, they stopped trusting the government, but they placed far more faith in the actual instruments of the empire: the military and the cops. The reverence with which both institutions are held, particularly when it comes to the cops, is a relatively recent phenomenon. Not even a hundred years ago yet, people openly rooted for the robbers against the cops.
We responded to a humiliating failure in a war by pivoting hard to the *right*. It didn't matter that we lost to a nation governed by the left, and it wasn't even a reaction against that. It was, in the cultural imagination, not even political at all. It was an instinctive reaction against uncertainty and insecurity to cloak oneself and one's community in that which is known and familiar.
I was thinking that might be the case. I’m not opposed to that happening, it could make sense if they wanted to reunite with the remaining West Coast chapters. And maybe the choice in New Vegas of having the NCR and the BoS sign a ceasefire is canon, which extends to the remaining Western BoS. Which is why the BoS can consolidate power in Cali with the NCRs approval. I just hope the NCR gets a reveal soon so that we aren’t skeptical of how the showmakers handle the lore
Since we know the plot is about a technological macguffin, I can see this chapter of the brotherhood as only recently arriving to the Boneyard from back east, chasing rumors of the plot item.
The problem is that the boneyard is supposed to be at least somewhat urbanized and stable by now, and that the NCR should be able to repel a BoS incursion like that with no issues.
My personal feeling is that the events of New Vegas have left the NCR with a bloody nose so they don't have as firm control as they used to. Maybe they won but at too high of a cost, maybe they got chased out by House or an Independent Vegas ending scenario and so got extremely disillusioned.
It could also be that the NCR just can't pin them down. The NCR is massive for it's population, it's actually pretty sparsely population. If the BoS is here looking for the McGuffin and said McGuffin isn't in shady sands or something, then given their apparent air capabilities they don't may not need to offer a pitched battle and occupy territory. They can fly somewhere, do what they went there to do for the plot and quickly leave before the NCR can get enough forces there to stop them.
Of course, eventually they'll need to refuel and resupply etc, but if they're able to withdraw to somewhere safe or hidden to do so, they could be a real ball ache for the NCR.
In the NCR Heartlands? No. It’s established in New Vegas that they’re relatively developed and stable. You don’t leave that level of civilization undefended even our relatively stable time.
Especially from a series where most of it is up to the player what is canon or not besides the small bits that’s confirm canon via npc dialogue in later games on the older ones.
Tv show though is 100% confirmed to be canon as per Bethesda until they say it’s not or retcons the show.
For my part: they are separate, even where the details match up. Nobody really should whine about a supplement they have the option to disregard. If I'm not mistaken, the TV money and the game development money ("OH BOY FALLOUT: ROVER DANCERS IS FINALLY COMING OUT NOW I CAN PURGE MYSELF OF THAT TRAILER OF THE SHOW) are separate to a substantial degree. If not, Bethesda has enough money to make more money on games.
You just cant ignore that the west Coast has too much settled lore to be restarting it from scratch. And btw that's what most of us are concerned about, which is that they somehow wrote everything out, and i am talking about factions that were already there like NCR and legion, so that they have a blank canvas. And that the story will evolve to become like what Howard/Bethesda did to the east coast, meaning two factions are important: brotherhood of steel and the rest (using fallout 3 as an example).
One of the actors according to IMDB is playing a character called Maximus for 4 episodes, I'm guessing frumentarius. Considering the Legion's spy network, makes sense.
Honestly, I just want them to acknowledge the games in a way that makes sense. Wanna make the NCR a burned down ruin with the Brotherhood ruling the ashes? Sure, just tell us how that happened.
This is a misrepresentation of what many fear will happen. It's not a case of fearing they will "canonize" an ending, but that they will completely or in part erase much of the lore in F1, F2 and Fallout New Vegas. Which is much worse
Which already happened considering a major town in the heartland of the NCR doesn't exist in the show, and the BOS still has a presence there. The NCR will continue to exist regardless of what happens in Vegas.
"if we ignore what came before then the product is good" a goofy take at best.
Edit: not even disagreeing with you overall. That's just a bad Witcher TV show fan level tale
The WoT adaptation was made by a fan too, it doesn't matter. They are making a product, there's no need to have any strong feelings about the show one way or another before we know that much about it
I'll make a few salty posts and move on with my life if the TV show doesn't care about the West Coast lore, I don't give two shits if that makes the fallout reddit deem me a good or bad fan. I don't get why people have to demonise each other over what they like or dislike one way or another, criticism is healthy.
The Witcher tv show is based the book. There are no choices made by the reader in the book and there is only a single canon ending to each book. If the series hadn’t basically canceled itself, perhaps the show runners would indeed get to included game content and having to choose a canon outcome to many choices.
It’s based on the books, but takes a few creative liberties that the lead actor (a super fan of the games *and* novels) and the author disagreed with. You can make the argument that it isn’t respectful of the source material based on that alone.
And it wasn’t just “I see the vision but I think this direction may translate better on a television format” it was straight up “lol that’s fucking stupid, our version is way better”
Yep, don't worry I know fam, I'm just saying that Witcher TV show fans will piss on the entire IP just because "fuck book readers" personally I'm skeptical after Rings of power but as long as they capture the feel of fallout I'm all good
Because the issue is with fallout the canon choices and outcomes in the game isn’t set in stone and purely up to the player until it’s proven canon via npc dialog in newer games.
Some people think Legion owns the dam others is ncr and so on. How can you say one is more valid than the other without proof of dialog somewhere.
Show is going to piss off people who are die hard set on their idea of choices being the canon ones verses all the others. That’s why I’m saying let go of the idea of your choice is the confirm canon if theirs no proof of it being so as it can go anyway at this point.
From all we know we could even get a hybrid mix of a ncr/house/BoS. And that would still piss off each one of those factions fans to some degree because it differences from the choices they made in game of “ well my playthrew I chose this option so why isn’t it the canon”
Regardless of in game character choices, there is a set Canon ending right? Like what happens in fallout 4? Did NV end with house or yes man? Regardless of choices. There should always be 1 linear timeline of events
We don’t know though and barely any of the story canon ever gets fully established past fallout 3.
NV/4 allows choices and vastly different outcomes compare to the games that come before them.
I feel like people think the show was made for the people of the fallout sub but they don’t realize the fallout show was made for people of r/all and lore to a screenwriter is fucking useless if it doesn’t make the best tv. I just think a lot of people are beyond unrealistic, and think fallout is this cultural icon of an ip that’s instantly recognizable to the masses and it’s lore/story can’t be changed.
Difference the showrunners of Halo show never played the games and didn't want to follow its plot or respect the setting. Jonathan Nolan, the Fallout showrunner is actually a fan of the games and was in charge of the first season of Westworld. I've got more faith in a showrunner who knows how to run a TV show and is personally excited to work on a license they love over some nobody trying to staple their OC project on a licence they clearly don't give a shit about.
If JN likes Fallout, I’m gonna hold out hope he came up with something interesting like the NCR and Brotherhood burying the hatchet finally or the NCR going through a time of crisis and the Brotherhood stepping up in the power vacuum.
Given how picky Bethesda is about who touches their IP and how they use it, I think it's going to be brilliant. Winter of Atom, for those of you who are familiar, is an incredible story, and if this show is even half that quality it will still be worth watching.
>and lore to a screenwriter is fucking useless if it doesn’t make the best tv.
Here's something maybe *you* don't realize? As someone who enjoys this specific property, that *isn't* a TV show, I *do* get to judge them for putting "make the best TV show possible [full stop]" as their goal. If they want to make the best TV show possible, they shouldn't be wasting this IP. They need to be aiming to make the "best Fallout TV show" possible, or there was no point to using the IP.
Because if they make a TV series that wildly violates the lore of the games, it's going to upset enthusiasts, but it's also going to diminish the power of the show to act as a method to get new potential players into the games. If the games conflict with the show lore, and you come to like the show, it *also* hurts in *that* direction.
At the end of the day if they need to make concessions on lore accuracy to tell a specific story, their writers are bad writers. And I do get to judge them for that fact. There is room in the Fallout universe to tell essentially any story you want that fits into the overarching aesthetic of retro-futurist, post-post-Apocalypse and if they are so hardline on executing a specific idea that they decide to make the *world* they are licensing fit their *ideas*, that is a poor use of an IP. And that's not just limited to Fallout.
That said, I'm not terribly interested in the TV show in the first place and haven't followed any of the pre-release marketing.
I get your words. But you still get to play the games if you don't like the show. So you have the right to complain about the show, but does anyone really care? And if the show fails, would Bethesda take any useful ideas from it?
There is also, absolutely, an argument to be made that altering or dispensing with some lore will make a better show without alienating gamers. By the way, you can't predict what number of gamers will watch the series, let alone who will become disheartened by discrepancies. You could even argue, despite/because of the incongruencies, that both the game and tv worlds become more interesting as a result. Just a what-if.
Final thing: you aren't a bad writer for cheezing things. You're a bad writer if you're writing is truly uninspired and doesn't compel anything in the audience.
From what I’m reading on here there are a lot of passionate folks with strong opinions who started playing with Fallout 1 and 2. The tv show needs to appeal to the broader public to be successful (depending on your definition of success), and I’m guessing more people are familiar with 3, NV, and 4. I would guess they are also wanting to appeal to a younger demographic, so the newer fans are more the target audience.
As a more casual fan who started with 3, loved 3 and NV, then phased out of playing video games before 4, I’m totally hyped to see this tv show being made. I hope it’s a decent story and they get the tone right (I’d even prefer a wild wasteland feel). I’ll be happy with that and let others argue over canon.
I'm looking forward to the show, but the kid in me who devoured Fallout Demo, Fallout 1, and Fallout 2 wants to see his NCR with their shiny city and the Brotherhood as the isolationist techno cult they should be at this point.
Still, having seen the trailer, can I get a Brotherhood sweater that *doesn't* come apart inside a year?
Here's the thing: Fallout is one of those shows that should have gone the Love, Death and Robots route. A different story each episode, all loosely recognized as canon.
Taking it in a direction with 3 different stories is inevitably going to cause issue especially if any of the new material supercedes old accepted canon. Especially when the creators inevitably end up shitting on people's favorite factions.
The *best* way they could have approached this is the Halo Legends style. A bunch of one of short stories that get told and you can see what did/didn't work with the fans. And the best part is, YOU CAN STILL GO AS NUTS AS YOU WANT. Because this is Fallout, there's limited radio range and most stories are told by people who heard it from someone else. Want a robot uprising? Sure, do it. Enclave vs BOS vs Mutants vs Canadian resistance? Why the hell not?
There was an opportunity for gold here and they missed it.
I'm going into this show basically just thinking of it as a side thing, maybe it'll be canon maybe it won't be. I don't really care. I literally don't care what the show does as long as it still feels like fallout. Are there somethings that I dislike, absolutely, but this is pretty big for the franchise and if this show is good and does well, I hope that there will be more non-game content to come (crossing my fingers for a Cyberpunk Edgerunners style anime)
Dislike that. Dislike that a lot. I just hope they have some competent people who actually understand Fallout lore and it's story. I think I'm done with the franchise if they retcon either of the first two games. That'd be pretty disrespectful imo.
What could they possibly retcon? There's barely any lore on the Boneyard other than one town in it, two factions, it getting nuked in FO1, and apparently it (or at least parts of it) is a hellhole during FNV.
if the NCRs population in fallout 2 is anything to go off it wouldn't be unreasonable tho
iirc the stated population there was 700,000 which is almost equivalent to the population of all of California in 1880 (864,694)
So like, the NCRs got enough people to make it work
That’s not imaginary, the NCR is like that in fallout 2 (as are some other settlements in the region) and the NCR has only expanded since then. There’s also dialogue in new Vegas about how safe things are back west deeper in NCR teritory
The problem is people expecting every landscape looks like NCR's capital city, which was built by G.E.C.K. Some major settlements like Junktown would be far less developed compared to Shady Sands, no need to say about even more minor settlements scattered around the desert.
Oh who knows. I assume some people will pick something from the non-canonical Fallout Bible that never made it into a video game. Most likely the thing that causes the mass outrage will be a child with a pet Cat.
yeah a lot of folks are passing around that quote where Razz talks about how the boneyard wasn't a great place to raise kids and most people have never heard of it, but I think he just means most Mojave folks haven't cuz the boneyard has a whole UNIVERSITY and is the FoA's main base like it's not abandoned or anything. I think it will take some place in the boneyard but Lucy's vault will probably be in the LA outskirts (which we know from Caesars childhood wasn't very safe or protected so it's more likely for such places to look so deserted like in the trailer)
Nobody said it was abandoned, but Razz says more than just it isn't a great place to live. He says there are friends there as well who tend to die very quickly and that his only choice was to join the Army or end up a fiend and die.
The two factions I mentioned, yes. Would be really hard for them to retcon that unless they say something like "there's never been any followers in this state."
I feel the same way about the first 2 games as some of the story was confirmed cannon thanks to fallout 3 dialog with Harold.
I could see things about NV definitely being changed since it was done by another studio as well apart from Bethesda.
I think instead of all of these live action shows, they should turn more things into animation. I've heard John Wick is getting an anime, so hopefully that's the gateway.
I'm mostly concerned the fact that NV's quality keeps Todd up at night will cause the show to disregard all of the established west coast stuff. it's their IP to do that if they want, and I'm sure it'll still be decent but it will just feel like fan fiction to me.
Honestly I think Todd Howard saying the show is canon is his way of saying f you to obsidians decision of being able to pick your own legacy. We all know Bethesda production are cookie cutter endings and I think he might feel some type of way about NV being generally more accepted as the best fallout and better for Role playing.
Some of y'all live full time in a fantasy world. Every single time Todd, in particular, has been asked he's praised Obsidian and NV. There is no rivalry there except the one made up by fans in their own head.
My concern isn't that my choices in FNV aren't canon. My concern is the BOS appearing as the major power in LA when that hasn't been the case since at least FO2. Also no idea why that airship looks like the Prydwen since that was built out of ruins in DC. Also weird to not see the NCR at all since they're the functioning state in LA
But I'm also open to the show being good, I want that. The trailer could easily have framed things a certain way to not only make the show for existing fans. Or maybe the plot is about Maxson's BOS returning to LA with all their East Coast tech and contesting control of the area with the NCR, etc
My canon is F1 F2 and FNV. 3 and 4 are full of inconsistencies. That said, Fallout 3 is my absolute favorite because it is fun. If the show is well done, I will watch it. But if it's BS, then I don't.
FO3 my favorite due to it was my first and Harold was how I learned about some of fallout 1/2 to take Intrest into trying them out.
And yeah I dropped halo after MC had sex with an alien sympathizer who help killed aton of humans… I hope this show doesn’t go that route at all of fudging up lore too bad.
I'm just glad that, in the trailer at least, they are visually representing the environment, clothing weapons, enemies etc. pretty much like we see in the games we love, contrary to the Witcher on netflix which completely shat on the author.
This actually gets me kinda hyped to know what happened to the west coast after NV, I was kinda displeased when I saw that Prydwen 2.0 but with this post, you got me thinking about it now. Thanks!
The show isn't even out yet. Can we just chill out until it's actually out and THEN we can say what's good or bad about it? So far I mostly see good in the trailer.
My issue isn't who won in New Vegas. What I do see is a complete misrepresentation of the Brotherhood of Steel. The bio lists them as "A group devoted to bringing law and order to the wastes.". The Western Brotherhood only really cares about technology, and that isn't even mentioned.
I don't really care; it's just something I noted.
Cannon: a large, heavy piece of artillery, typically mounted on wheels, formerly used in warfare.
Canon: a collection of rules or texts that are widely considered to be authoritative or official.
I think most of it could/would be solved if they didn't say it was canon as there will be glaring details that are incorrect.
For instance in Harry Potter the books are canon and the movies are based on the books but rake liberties and most don't have issues with these. Stuff like dumbeldore yelling when he didn't have become fun memes and other inconsistencies are for better movies scenes (such as Harry seeing Pettigrew on the map, Harry didn't see him lupin did but it makes for a better scene if Harry sees him and tells lupin.
Most of the issue could just be ignored if they didn't make a point to say it's canon.
At the end of the day however it is a make-believe show about make-believe stories from a make-believe game about a make-believe world. It should just be fun to see it come to life but as with anything it will probably tear the general fan into two camps of love vs hate.
Seems to me my biggest complaint, which really doesn’t bother too much, it’s too clean nice and colorful for my taste.. however, still better than being too, black, gray, dark and boring
Other than it possibly contradicting some ttrpg stuff I worked up, Im good to go.
Lorehawks are kind of concentrated anti-fun. Like, if the whole show isn't shot isometrically from cranes, to look like 1, its gonna be heresy.
I think the problem is that Bethesda does not or cannot write fallout settings as anything other than bombed out shitholes that look like they did right after the war, when we know for pretty damn certain that california, while not perfect, has recovered SIGNIFICANTLY.
We know they have an industrial economy, the ability to print money, manufacture clothing armor and weapons, ability to maintain vertibirds, and have the ability to produce their own food on a mass scale.
There’s still some monsters and raiders but by an large it’s not something you’re gonna worry about much if you stay in any of the cities or on some of the major highways but from what we’ve seen it looks surprising bombed out, and that’s a bit concerning, especially given how Bethesda has treated every other location
I’d they wanna give a canon ending they can go for it, but it’s more the literal setting itself I’m worried about, Todd doesn’t understand that the march and progress of humanity no matter what is a major theme in fallout, it’s not about reveling in the rubble.
Is this head cannon in the room with us right now?
No one is saying this. Literally not a single person. You're just making shit up to either karma farm or try and validate your own opinion. And the worst part is the people here have eaten enough Bethesda branded crayons to buy it.
No, people are upset about them canonizing an ending because the game was written in a way to make your choices matter. Once you know what actually occurred in a story it invalidates the other options. BGS was unable to make the east coast interesting enough for the TV show, and that's become all of our problem.
It's been 13 actual years, and 15 years in the fallout timeline. New Vegas is my favorite fallout, but very few people who pick it up now are going to care whether or not the games ending has been canonized by something current. Some people want to know how the story continuing, not just whether or not their specifically chosen game ending was canonical. I for one am excited to see how things turned out. Complaints about the show's story for the Brotherhood and NCR being canon are like complaining about Elder Scrolls 6 letting people know who actually won the civil war in Skyrim. The fallout world is big enough for multiple stories across multiple mediums to coexist
Well when the series always has the result of mutation with ghouls, it just seems kind of out of place
Plus he just looks a little too normal outside of the eye
Trogs, Psykers, Slags, Children of Atom, Swampfolk, Ghost People, and Wendigo are all already existing human mutations. Is it actually out of place, or just new to the franchise?
Like I said, just looks a little too clean/normal like he belongs in Star trek but ya frankly new is probably better in the end so it doesn't stagnant like Star Wars has lately
Well, the cyclops is a vault dweller, so it makes sense they would be clean vs. if they were a wastelander. Every Vault has it's own experiments, so it doesn't even seem out of place to me at all that a cyclops Vault Dweller might exist somewhere in the wasteland.
I get vault tech had fucked up experiments but at the end of the day there was a vauge purpose behind the experiments, what was the goal of vault Polyphemus here lol (again if this is the biggest thing that stands out to me, I'm sure the rest of the series is going to be fine, I think Walton Goggins is going to be awesome)
Vault Tech had experiments ranging from “ethically horrendous but could give some good information” to “what the fuck is wrong with you” to “we are bored, we have a million vaults, this would be funny”
A vault where they mutated one person into becoming a cyclops is definitely well within the realm of possibility for them lol
Even the funny vaults, save for the two sex ones, all had some purpose. Although FO4 was already forgetting that with some of their ideas like the addicts vault.
Yeah, having Goggins and Parnell are going to make the show amazing. I'd be surprised if everyone didn't love the cyclops with Chris Parnell playing the role.
There is already criticism coming from the usual offenders who take things too seriously. I say this as someone who highly disliked Amazons adaptation of LOTR.
But to critique a show that hasn’t even been realised yet in a universe where satire and irony where everything is ridiculously over the top based on ideas of what is ‘Canon’ is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I would argue there is no such thing as ‘Canon’ Fallout anyway, every single game is full of inconsistencies - and I don’t even think this removes from Fallout - it even adds to it the humour of the franchise.
Stop gatekeeping it based on your own personal biases.
Uh
The NV endings directly affect New Vegas. The show takes place in Los Angeles, in the Boneyard, 4 hours away by car and god knows how long by foot/brahmin, the events of that game should be wholly inconsequential to the immediate area aside from references.
If you side with the Legion, it’s made very clear that the Legion is too big for its britches and will collapse under its own weight. They might never get past Victorville or the San Bernardino Mountains, or if they take Coachella that’s so out of the way they might actually just up and die there of exposure
If you side with the NCR, Vegas is a frontier outpost slowly being absorbed, and it’s still too far away to really matter to anyone living in old Los Angeles
If you side with house or Yes Man, same issue, it’s an independent political entity that isn’t going to be invading Southern California.
I don’t see how anyone can be made about this possibility. Probably the only “canon” thing that could affect this show is what you do to the brotherhood in NV, and even then they were very close to being destroyed before you get involved.
As for me, I really don’t like the FO4 aesthetic of the universe. Everything looks too clean, almost like an Apple commercial with smudge and dirt on it. FO3 and NV felt as grimy as described.
The problem is that Bethesda doesn't respect Canon at all and is terrible at writing. I don't know what happened to the people who used to write the quests and lore for Morrowind and Oblivion but those people are gone and Bethesda is terrible at writing now. Fallout 4 incredibly weak on the RPG/ writing side and everything I've heard about starfield is that it has weak World building and bad writing.
Bethesda seems to be very into the aesthetic of fallout and they love the brotherhood steel because they look cool but I have zero confidence that they're going to actually write a story that makes sense in the time and place they've decided to set it. Just from what they showed in the trailer it already doesn't look right. They're in the middle of NCR territory after decades of the NCR being in control of building up the region.
Maybe they'll surprise us but I have zero confidence in that. It seems like Todd Howard is still angry that New Vegas is a better game than he'll ever make.
Some people need to grasp that nothing will ever be 100% accepted and their pointless “get over it” or “why is everyone complaining” topics only further along the issues.
Honestly, people need to stop watching YouTubers that just tear everything apart. Find some joy in new interpretations of things we like.
Stop letting self important narcissists ruin everything for you.
No, my dear!
That's not the problem! The Problem is that BADthesda doesn't respect canon - no, not head-canon (because for me that's Wildcard, so the ending where you take over Vegas, which is of course not canon!).
No, the problem is that BADthesda thinks stuff up like the Fusion-Cores for the Power Armor (and they turned PA into a Mech that you step into, which it wasn't in previous games! It was more flightless Iron Man Armor than Mech Warrior or Knight from Warhammer 40K) which last minutes instead of centuries (the canon in Fallout 1 and 2 tells you that they did experiment with small energy cells, but the armors were consuming them at alarming rate, so they installed a small fusion reactor that lasts centuries!)
There's also the fact that they destroy everything to keep Fallout in a state of perpetual stagnation! The NCR being the prime example! They were a faction that BUILT new cities (like Shady Sands and Vault City!) from the groud up (so new post-war-construction!) and we aren't talking about random shacks, but cities with thousands of inhabitants, cities that have clean running water, sewer systems, defenses, people working regular jobs without fearing for their next meal etc....and now they blow it up and do so OFF SCREEN!
Seriously, 200+ years since the Great War and only one faction was truly trying to rebuild? Come on, that's unrealistic! Humans thrive on working together, thus we'd have people rebuilding, sure not all efforts would work (hell, some factions might fight each other for resources!), but over all there should be a lot more civilization back! People shouldn't live in shacks or houses that look like the war was yesterday.
BADthesda's approach to story telling is at fault here, it might work for Elder Scrolls, but not for the wasteland! Fallout 1 and 2 (and New Vegas!) are very good games and they show rebuilding efforts (Shady Sands in Fallout 1 is a tiny village, but it's a village of new buildings, it grows its own crops, has clean drinking water etc. and in Fallout 2 Shady Sands is the capital of the NCR and it's a town already, that works with neighboring towns (you can even help, by for example repairing a nuclear reactor for clean power etc.)...
On the other hand Fallout 3 shows only a destroyed Washington DC, nobody truly rebuilds! Hell, the BoS holds the Pentagon, but even they haven't restored anything there, except for some computers and Liberty Prime...but the bathrooms are in disgusting state, as is the rest of the Pentagon! Fallout 4? The same! There's a couple of established settlements (Diamond City and Goodneighbor)...but they are shanty towns/slums! 200+ years and people live in slums (often with the skeletal remains of those who died in the Great War still there!)...seriously, you can't tell me that people would be ok with that and that people forgot what a broom is!
So yeah, don't tell me that we are the problem here!
ps: Why do they have a CYCLOPS in a Vault? Vaults (unless they were experiments by Vault Tech and for example didn't fully close etc.) don't let radiation in, so why is a mutant there? That makes no sense at all!
I saw an interview going into Halo where the creators said they were working in their own timeline. Then about halfway through the second episode I turned to my partner and said "Oh, this is a drama about how Master Chief becomes Master Chief, then next season is going to have way more action. I bet the internet is going to hate this."
Two for three so far. Looking forward to the second season.
The creators and Todd Howard have stated they view this as the next fallout installment so basically Fallout 5. Writing for Tv shows has been shit these past few years so it’s understandable for people to be concerned how they’re going to handle the show story wise cause it’s all gonna be canon. Personally I have my own headcanon and fallout universe so I can always change things to suit my needs
It's understandable but some people have taken it to far like the drama with the one eyed vault dweller some people act like that's the end of the world
It gave us new Vegas which is probably the highest praise I can give a game, but it was going to do well regardless of it's quality. You attach Bethesda's name to something and have Todd give a 30 minute presentation and it'll sell like hotcakes. 4, 76, starfield, even 3 and oblivion to some extent have been coasting off the momentum their old games got them and good ole fashioned marketing. It did wonders to quell the critics of their design.....until the games actually released that is. And the cycle repeats.
I think we really got to see it first hand with starfield. A rough outline of a game that forgot what people liked about their design. But at over 10 million copies sold and probably just as many game pass subscriptions, I don't see them changing that strategy much. Especially with people still defend it to death in droves because "well I had fun" is apparently a catch all to make people stop disliking something now.
Morrowind's a hell of a drug isn't it?
Oh I know you disagree. If everyone was on the same page I wouldn't have said anything.
I'm gonna be real with you man, if fallout died in 2004, we'd lose one game worth playing and save ourselves a lot of embarrassment. I'm willing to make that trade.
How are you not embarrassed? They managed to take one of the founders or western RPGs and turn it into a glorified looter shooter and way to farm money with micro transaction from children and slow fans. How can you not be embarrassed to enjoy a franchise that does that kind of thing?
Because people associate you with it? Because you support it financially? Because the things you do enjoy are grouped together with it?
It might not be your work, but it is your decision to deem it up to your standards.
Well theirs also NV fanbase as well who’s mostly all diehard NCR fans who will be mad if NCR ends up losing progress/power. They are already mad about BoS being in NCR turf. Maybe they lost the dam and receded in power and BoS picked up the slack who knows at this point.
It’s possible with how BoS is back in force in California and NCR representation shown in show. Mr house also shown as a casted role.
Show is considered canon by Bethesda so it could also impact all future games as well.
If they was smart they would have done the show in an area that’s untouched by lore. But I guess they wanted an area that already has story so they don’t have to get too creative to establish story.
Let's be on this table. Hollywood is going to take liberties with.
The fallout show and there's nothing we can do about that. All I ask is that they stick to the. Established plot of whatever story they're trying to cover Inshot Honest hearts has Josh Graham and if there is no Josh Graham. Then I refuse to accept your show as fall out end of story.
So I'm literally just coming into the series after listening to a plotty time podcast about the first game. Then over the weekend I saw the trailer for the TV show. I've been trying to soak in as much lore as I can about the series, but from what I'm gathering is that there is so much that can be done with this series as a whole that I'm not understanding why there would be hate towards the show at all. Maybe that's just my noob status coming through.
I honestly think they just need to pick a faction ending to make canon from NV. You can ignore F3 and F4 because they take place in the East and probably won’t affect the events or the series
In the trailer there is a guy riding a horse. It’s now cannon and we should get horses, mutated 2 headed horses, in the next game.
I never understood why there are no horses in the game.
If they try to mix everything to appease every kind of public (specially non players) it is gonna be garbage and the fandom is gonna hate it. The backlash is gonna be great.
Apparently it is gonna be in NCR territory, so we can expect them there.
That poster of someone clad in BoS armor looking like a good guy walking alongside others is quite farcical and nonsense in all aspects, unless it was Lyons' rogue sector.
I’m fine if they don’t include the NCR or if the NCR has a smaller presence, but they need to explain it or what happened. If they want to ignore stuff that’s already been set up in the game, they should have made the show set in like the Midwest or something.
I'm excited af for the show, but I think people are completely justified in being upset if there are now "canon" endings to the games. Imo there's no point in giving players choice in a game if you're just going to retroactively dismiss those choices.
I think the best example of this is Gears 5. There's a choice in that game where one of two major characters will die, and whatever game is next will have to invalidate all the players who unknowingly made the non-canon choice. If you're going to do that, just don't give players the choice OR make the choice a new game plus "what if" type of thing.
The beauty of Fallout is that it can be set anywhere so they could avoid this drama altogether. If they choose to continue a story or canonize an ending then they're just asking for the backlash.
That's a redundant argument. Fallout 2 made canon endings with Tandi surviving and Shady Sands thriving to become NCR. Fallout 3 and New Vegas made it came canon the Enclave lost in 2, NCR continues to thrive, Chosen One travelled with Marcus and . 4 made it canon that the BoS survived while the Lyons' died and that the Capital Wasteland is better than where we left off.
So your argument is basically "Stop being nostalgic and just accept what's new"?
That's all well and good, but what happens when 'what's new' is either idiotic, boring, of shitty quality, overly woke, or some combination thereof?
You're gonna tell me to praise the shit out of Disney Live Action remakes next? Nah, man. I acknowledge nostalgia might be unhealthy for you. But in this case, I'm gonna cling to it if the alternative is me mindlessly calling anything of shitty quality a 'masterpiece'. I'll rather be a mindless nostalgia zombie than a mindless SJW corporate zombie.
You’re bringing in shit I didn’t even discuss. I’m mainly hitting at people complaining about their faction not being center of attention or getting the endings they wanted.
You are the one bringing wokeness into the discussion. I’m not forcing you to enjoy it or even watch it nor did I say that.. I’m saying you can’t go in with the expectation if you’re favorite endings being the cannon ones same goes for choices you make In game that have divergent paths with different outcomes. Bethesda already said the show is going to be canon and it’s in an area where we will probably end up seeing the outcomes of a few games.
People already upset BoS is in NCR turf and NCR not being shown more than a flag in the background. ( could allude to maybe ncr lost the dam and now in a weaken state and BoS reformed/gather strength after.) who knows at this point. Anything can be retcon from the path choices available in game.
That’s the beautiful flaw of fallout is it’s mostly up to player discretion of what is cannon or not until a newer game speaks of past events that makes something the actual cannon which is rarely done between games.
I said it many times I do wish they done the show in a area not touched by the games as it would be more smooth but I guess they wanted to hit on a area already known to fans to draw in more attention and already have established lore to pull show ideas from.
Obligatory XKCD: [https://xkcd.com/1401/](https://xkcd.com/1401/)
It’s “canon” Pls. Cannon is a big gun.
We call that the “broadsider” around these parts. Please stick to the canon. :)
it depends on the firing angle. it could be a headmortar
Please stick to the cannon canon
Canaan
Cahnan
KAAAAAHN!
We have a winner folks.
I hear bitches love them
oh shit, that's an anti tank rifle.....OH SHIT! THATS AN ANTI TANK RIFLE!!!
11:30 Someone brought a real anti tank to the cosplay https://youtu.be/2G3mDenU_zA?si=h-SMPsv7ntWV3oLe
Yeah you’re right sorry lol
No kidding. What is this, Star Wars?
I just want ugly ghouls
https://i.imgur.com/VHJ6oHn.jpg
Exactly. I want a rotting corpse like [Set](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Set?file=FO01_NPC_Set_N.png) from Fallout 1, not discount Ryan Reynolds Deadpool.
Ghouls have never been written anywhere as close to as interesting as they were in Fallout 1, even though a lot of narrative potential ended up on the cutting room floor. RIP to a real one.
Listen: if the show doesn’t introduce the Enclave while utilizing the plot of my Wasteland Warfare campaign where they find the find themselves on the path to redemption and becoming a benevolentish force in the wasteland, down to the name of the group and the individuals in it appearing exactly as they exist in my head, I’ll have no choice but to consider the show a resounding failure. Either Todd Howard scans my brain and includes the tale of the isolated Enclave Company Charlie struggling to survive after the fall of Raven Rock, or this show isn’t canon. I don’t make the rules, I just happen to be the one who decides what is and isn’t officially canon in Fallout because I’m a Very Special Boy. >!/s, hopefully obviously!<
Jesus, I haven’t been keeping up on anything with the show. Was there a chance it wasn’t going to be exactly this? I’m pre writing all my neg reviews now.
Dude, they're not even including the part where pre-War FEV research on badgers lead to the creation of the apex predator of the Glowing Tundra, the mythological [Hodag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodag). (Which reminds me, I still need to 3D print, base, and paint my Hodags.)
Hey some people actually think that way if you check the other fallout subs. Some think legions owns the area or NCR owns the dam and new Vegas and ect. I guess that’s a beautiful flaw of fallout is the endings are what you make of them until proven otherwise which is what leads to a lot of infighting and debates. Only the first 3 have a good established base of canon where as NV/4 don’t as of this moment which we might finally get in the tv show. I wish they would have used a new area for the show so it wouldn’t have effect anything but I guess they wanted to go with an area that’s known to the fanbase to grab attention.
Oh, I'm aware. It's also why I've stuck my campaign in Wisconsin. While I think Chicago is a real possiblity for a setting someday and it's near enough to be relevant, it's still generally an area where I can tell my own little story to myself without bumping into the world as it's established. Like... we're probably never getting an actual Fallout centered around Green Bay. At most, someday my interactions with the Midwestern Brotherhood and the Enclave Chicago Outposts will no longer jive with canon. When that day comes, it's my own damn problem. Unless Todd wants to steal my story. See, Green Bay is still called Green Bay, but now it's a more literal name on account of the radiation and Super Mutants. And there's a group of Raiders sailing down from the frozen wilds of UPland in the North in makeshift longships, who have taken to dressing like Vikings and are lead by a myterious figure clad in Power Armor adorned with Norse runes. The UPlanders speak a musical dialect which vaguely resembles English, as their forefathers did before the War.
Legendary Cheesehead Mutant sounds terrifying. Imagine a Packers fan full sprinting at you with a blinking mini nuke and wearing their favorite linebacker Jersey now shredded from their swole.
At some point, I 100% intend to force a squad from my settlement to have to face off with Super Mutants in a very [Mutant League Football](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_League_Football)\-inspired scenario. And, yes, the ball is going to be a mininuke that can go off. With that said, as malleable as the rules are for Wasteland Warfare, I still need to hammer out how I'm gonna handle it mechanically. Thankfully, I'm early in the campaign and it'll be a bit until we're ready for that showdown.
Honestly bro I fuck with that
The leader of the Super Mutants that has overrun Green Bay is known only as The Shepherd. The Shepherd is a mutant prophet who claims to have had visions guiding him to the city, where he believes mutant salvation under a new "master" awaits them. His main fortress is [The Field of Lambs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambeau_Field), named both for his mutant flock that resides within and for the routine slaughter that takes place on its concencrated grounds. They believe the Field of Lambs to be a holy site: humans regularly worshipped their God on the Sabbath, and every Sabbath the Field was the site of worship by enthralled masses through ritualized gladitorial combat. What other explanation could their possibly be? He also just might be a batshit insane Nightkin, who knows!
I can just imagine walking into the fuckin fortress and seeing a fuckin behemoth 100% would make an amazing setting/ story. Props for the amazing lore
As long as the mutants yell "go packers," you got a good thing going over there
Perhaps the real endings are the mininukes we met along the way...
I'm sorry, but that's the absolute worst trash-tier fanfiction I've ever read in my life. I'll be furious if the show looks like that. The only way it'll be even remotely acceptable is if it's Enclave Company *Delta* who does that.
Listen, I flirted with Delta, but I wanted a nod to that [other remnant of the pre-apocalypse American government/military](https://battletanx.fandom.com/wiki/Charlie_Company) from the 1998 Nintendo 64 classic, *Battletanx.* Because, while I can't remember what I had for breakfast most days, I do remember Charlie Company were my squad in splitscreen multiplayer *Battletanx*.
I don’t have a problem with the show making it’s canon regarding which factions win in Fallout NV and Fallout 4. If the NCR victory and Brotherhood victory are canon which are probably most likely then I don’t have a problem with that. What I would have a problem with is if the show blatantly disregards the lore between those two factions. It shouldn’t be conceivable for the Brotherhood to have so much power in California since the NCR pretty much kicked their ass and sent them running east. There better be a good explanation for that. And they better not portray the Brotherhood as saints since the East chapter was going down a pretty immoral path by the end of Fallout 4, and their Western chapters were still very isolationist and extremist during the events of New Vegas. Unless its explained somehow that all the chapters decided to reform drastically
Idk some reason I can see house ending being very cannon
I’d love that honestly. The NCR’s imperialist expansion being foiled by House is such a satisfying ending with a sense of poetic justice. Seeing the NCRs government with a much more progressive outlook in the show as a result of their failure in the Mojave would be really interesting. And if Mr House actually makes an appearance too that would be iconic
If only Rene Auberjonois was still alive
Honestly if house made an appearance I’d probably die. But it just always made sense to me that it was cannon because you just keep going on after delivering the chip and everything basically stays the same afterwards besides house capitalizing off the dam and making Vegas more secure
>The NCR’s imperialist expansion being foiled by House Usually, when a person accuses someone of imperialism, you expect them to propose *socialism* as the answer. Not fascism. >Seeing the NCRs government with a much more progressive outlook in the show as a result of their failure in the Mojave would be really interesting. I mean first, when has that ever happened? When has a government ever gotten absolutely washed the way the NCR does in the House ending--uncountable resources and lives wasted, territory lost, nation humiliated--and become more *progressive* for it? I mean I can think of a couple *real* big examples from the last couple hundred years that militate strongly in the other direction. For that matter, I can think of at least one major war going on right now that is evidence of the opposite conclusion. Additionally, when a nation loses, it tends to emulate its vanquisher. When Japan got owned into the toilet by the technologically advanced West (which is a pretty good analog for what happens to the NCR in a House ending!), they spent the next several decades undergoing the fastest industrialization in world history so that they could have what their enemies had. When Germany got punked in World War I, they ended up adopting a more extreme version of the same racial ideologies and anti-social dogmas on which the nations that had defeated them were built. When Russia spent a decade being humiliated over and over again by neoconservative and neoliberal U.S. Presidents, they elected an even nastier piece of work who engaged in imperial adventurism and foreign election meddling and all the other terrible things America does, only he would do them louder and prouder and, somehow, crueler. If the NCR loses to House in the Mojave, it loses to either fascism or anarcho-libertarianism, depending on how you see House. Neither is progressive. There's really no way that the NCR comes out of *any* FONV ending more progressive than it was going in, but the House ending would be the one most likely to produce a reactionary right-wing tendency in NCR politics, were it not for the Legion.
>I mean first, when has that ever happened? When has a government ever gotten absolutely washed the way the NCR does in the House ending--uncountable resources and lives wasted, territory lost, nation humiliated--and become more progressive for it? Yes, that is what is actually most likely - because imperialism was Kimball's angle and if House ending would be canon, this would mean that his pitch of rebuilding the NCR as an imperialist hegemon failed spectacularly. Note that erosion of previous NCR values happened mostly under Kimball so anyone running for president could easily be someone wanting to revive "good old days" - which would mean go back to much more humanitarian angle that was held by NCR under Tandi. >Additionally, when a nation loses, it tends to emulate its vanquisher. That happens only when your loss is catastrophic enough - what can be seen in all your examples. Germany, Russia, Japan - all of them suffered catastrophic losses to either their own territory as a direct result of fighting or their economy as an aftereffect of war. This is not the case in NCR, while they suffer a loss, it is only a loss in an expositional war that was aiming to acquire new territory. If losses in wars like these would pivot governments then USA would adapt communism due to war in Vietnam.
>Yes, that is what is actually most likely - because imperialism was Kimball's angle and if House ending would be canon, this would mean that his pitch of rebuilding the NCR as an imperialist hegemon failed spectacularly. The Japanese Empire responded to a catastrophic embarrassment on the world stage by becoming even more aggressively imperialistic. The remains of the Prussian Empire responded to losing World War I by becoming Nazi Germany. The successor state to the Soviet Union is currently engaged in, what, it's third war of imperial aggression this century? Fourth? Who can keep track? >Note that erosion of previous NCR values happened mostly under Kimball so anyone running for president could easily be someone wanting to revive "good old days" - which would mean go back to much more humanitarian angle that was held by NCR under Tandi. That's just not how politicized nostalgia works. There is a reason that the appeal to the "better values" of times past is almost uniquely a right-wing/reactionary rhetorical tool: it's because that's the only kind of political project it can effectively sell. The left wing of the Labour Party, or even the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, are both *motivated* by a desire to return to a more left-leaning era of their parties and their nations, but they don't try to sell their political projects that way. "Old Labour" doesn't campaign as Old Labour, or even as Red Labour, they campaign through an organization called Momentum. As in, forward motion. Bernie Sanders didn't run as the second coming of FDR, he ran as a voice for the young and the disillusioned who envisioned a better way forward, and he always used the language of forward motion. You know who *does* campaign on the appeal to the past, other than open reactionaries? Covert reactionaries, like the mainstream establishment of the Labour and Democratic Parties. It was Labour's establishment which brought down Jeremy Corbyn's leadership from within by, in part, appealing to a supposedly calmer, saner, less chaotic (all of which just meant Blairite) past. It was Joe Biden who campaigned as the second coming of FDR, and continues to do so despite clear evidence that campaigning on economic issues isn't working for him. The appeal to the rose-tinted view of the past is a reactionary tendency, not a liberal, progressive, or revolutionary one. It's fundamentally about revanchism, and that's very much *not what the NCR needs*, just as it's not what any real-world country needs. America didn't need a second Franklin Roosevelt, it needed a first Bernie Sanders. Franklin Roosevelt was equal to the most prominent challenges of his time, but he interned Japanese Americans, he fought to maintain the flagrantly unjust colonial status of America's territories, and he fatefully switched out his left-wing VP for a right-wing Democrat as soon as he knew he was dying and wouldn't last much past his final election. Similarly, Tandi's benevolent-coded liberalism might be remembered fondly by NCR citizens in hindsight, but she was no less imperial than Kimball is. She was arguably more so. It was under her leadership that Shady Sands became the expansionist project that is the NCR. It was under her leadership that many communities were heavily, aggressively pressured into joining her new liberal democratic juggernaut. It was under the leadership of Tandi--whose father was old enough to remember that liberal democracy and capitalism failed to prevent the near-extinction of the human species and in fact contributed to it--that the NCR was molded in the very image of that same failed ideology. A return to Tandism is unlikely to be the response to a defeat at Hoover Dam, but if it is, it still won't help. As a man who was well on his way to becoming the President of the United States once said, "Nothing will fundamentally change."
>If losses in wars like these would pivot governments then USA would adapt communism due to war in Vietnam. You misunderstand me. It is not my position that *governments* respond to humiliating defeats by changing their political projects, nor is it my position that the change in question is simply to follow the example of the one who beat you. My position is that *cultures* react to humiliating defeats by pivoting to the right, no matter what the politics of the entity that beat them. Americans responded to the humiliation of Vietnam by pivoting to the right *before it was even over*, and emphasized that choice resoundingly in 1972. If the man they elected hadn't covered himself in shit, they would have voted for the next nominee from his party too, and as soon as they gave themselves a four-year palate cleanser, they voted in the most right-wing President since Calvin Coolidge. What they did *not* do is fundamentally examine the contradictions and tensions inherent in a society, an economy, and a political system which profess to prize liberty and the promotion of higher standards of living while actively suppressing both all over the world, which present themselves as beacons of enlightened humanity but conduct themselves as savage brutes, whose self-narratives are of heroism but whose actions only ever seem to beget hatred. They did not re-examine the imperial agenda. In fact, contrary to popular narratives, Americans didn't get more suspicious of authority as a result of Vietnam and Watergate. They got *more trusting* of it. Sure, they stopped trusting the government, but they placed far more faith in the actual instruments of the empire: the military and the cops. The reverence with which both institutions are held, particularly when it comes to the cops, is a relatively recent phenomenon. Not even a hundred years ago yet, people openly rooted for the robbers against the cops. We responded to a humiliating failure in a war by pivoting hard to the *right*. It didn't matter that we lost to a nation governed by the left, and it wasn't even a reaction against that. It was, in the cultural imagination, not even political at all. It was an instinctive reaction against uncertainty and insecurity to cloak oneself and one's community in that which is known and familiar.
He is apparently in one episode
I wouldn’t find it *satisfying* just because I hate house more lmao
IMDb (grain of salt there mind you) has him listed as a character in the series.
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I was thinking that might be the case. I’m not opposed to that happening, it could make sense if they wanted to reunite with the remaining West Coast chapters. And maybe the choice in New Vegas of having the NCR and the BoS sign a ceasefire is canon, which extends to the remaining Western BoS. Which is why the BoS can consolidate power in Cali with the NCRs approval. I just hope the NCR gets a reveal soon so that we aren’t skeptical of how the showmakers handle the lore
Since we know the plot is about a technological macguffin, I can see this chapter of the brotherhood as only recently arriving to the Boneyard from back east, chasing rumors of the plot item.
The problem is that the boneyard is supposed to be at least somewhat urbanized and stable by now, and that the NCR should be able to repel a BoS incursion like that with no issues.
Maybe the bulk of the NCR is busy so where else with another group fighting them. I don't think it'd be that hard to come up with a reason.
My personal feeling is that the events of New Vegas have left the NCR with a bloody nose so they don't have as firm control as they used to. Maybe they won but at too high of a cost, maybe they got chased out by House or an Independent Vegas ending scenario and so got extremely disillusioned.
It could also be that the NCR just can't pin them down. The NCR is massive for it's population, it's actually pretty sparsely population. If the BoS is here looking for the McGuffin and said McGuffin isn't in shady sands or something, then given their apparent air capabilities they don't may not need to offer a pitched battle and occupy territory. They can fly somewhere, do what they went there to do for the plot and quickly leave before the NCR can get enough forces there to stop them. Of course, eventually they'll need to refuel and resupply etc, but if they're able to withdraw to somewhere safe or hidden to do so, they could be a real ball ache for the NCR.
In the NCR Heartlands? No. It’s established in New Vegas that they’re relatively developed and stable. You don’t leave that level of civilization undefended even our relatively stable time.
Discussions of what is or isn’t canon is the most needlessly exhausting thing there is for any fandom.
Nothing is canon.
Especially from a series where most of it is up to the player what is canon or not besides the small bits that’s confirm canon via npc dialogue in later games on the older ones. Tv show though is 100% confirmed to be canon as per Bethesda until they say it’s not or retcons the show.
Fully agree. And am fully exhausting myself on this topic.
For my part: they are separate, even where the details match up. Nobody really should whine about a supplement they have the option to disregard. If I'm not mistaken, the TV money and the game development money ("OH BOY FALLOUT: ROVER DANCERS IS FINALLY COMING OUT NOW I CAN PURGE MYSELF OF THAT TRAILER OF THE SHOW) are separate to a substantial degree. If not, Bethesda has enough money to make more money on games.
Nothing more painful than watching a nerdfight over canon. I don't have to watch, though. I don't envy them, but I'm glad they're happy.
You just cant ignore that the west Coast has too much settled lore to be restarting it from scratch. And btw that's what most of us are concerned about, which is that they somehow wrote everything out, and i am talking about factions that were already there like NCR and legion, so that they have a blank canvas. And that the story will evolve to become like what Howard/Bethesda did to the east coast, meaning two factions are important: brotherhood of steel and the rest (using fallout 3 as an example).
NCR will be there but there’s absolutely no reason for the Legion to be a part of this show
If the Legion winning is the canon for NV I suppose they could have started moving into Cali though. I doubt that's canon though.
One of the actors according to IMDB is playing a character called Maximus for 4 episodes, I'm guessing frumentarius. Considering the Legion's spy network, makes sense.
Not so, [we already know he's a Brotherhood squire](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/11/fallout-first-look).
Oh snap, odd choice for a name in the Brotherhood.
But we know that the NCR is in the show. So if they were writing everything out why would they be including those things?
Honestly, I just want them to acknowledge the games in a way that makes sense. Wanna make the NCR a burned down ruin with the Brotherhood ruling the ashes? Sure, just tell us how that happened.
This is a misrepresentation of what many fear will happen. It's not a case of fearing they will "canonize" an ending, but that they will completely or in part erase much of the lore in F1, F2 and Fallout New Vegas. Which is much worse Which already happened considering a major town in the heartland of the NCR doesn't exist in the show, and the BOS still has a presence there. The NCR will continue to exist regardless of what happens in Vegas.
"if we ignore what came before then the product is good" a goofy take at best. Edit: not even disagreeing with you overall. That's just a bad Witcher TV show fan level tale
Difference is that the people working on the Witcher show hate the IP while Nolan is an actual fan of Fallout.
The WoT adaptation was made by a fan too, it doesn't matter. They are making a product, there's no need to have any strong feelings about the show one way or another before we know that much about it I'll make a few salty posts and move on with my life if the TV show doesn't care about the West Coast lore, I don't give two shits if that makes the fallout reddit deem me a good or bad fan. I don't get why people have to demonise each other over what they like or dislike one way or another, criticism is healthy.
The Witcher tv show is based the book. There are no choices made by the reader in the book and there is only a single canon ending to each book. If the series hadn’t basically canceled itself, perhaps the show runners would indeed get to included game content and having to choose a canon outcome to many choices.
It’s based on the books, but takes a few creative liberties that the lead actor (a super fan of the games *and* novels) and the author disagreed with. You can make the argument that it isn’t respectful of the source material based on that alone. And it wasn’t just “I see the vision but I think this direction may translate better on a television format” it was straight up “lol that’s fucking stupid, our version is way better”
Yep, don't worry I know fam, I'm just saying that Witcher TV show fans will piss on the entire IP just because "fuck book readers" personally I'm skeptical after Rings of power but as long as they capture the feel of fallout I'm all good
Because the issue is with fallout the canon choices and outcomes in the game isn’t set in stone and purely up to the player until it’s proven canon via npc dialog in newer games. Some people think Legion owns the dam others is ncr and so on. How can you say one is more valid than the other without proof of dialog somewhere. Show is going to piss off people who are die hard set on their idea of choices being the canon ones verses all the others. That’s why I’m saying let go of the idea of your choice is the confirm canon if theirs no proof of it being so as it can go anyway at this point. From all we know we could even get a hybrid mix of a ncr/house/BoS. And that would still piss off each one of those factions fans to some degree because it differences from the choices they made in game of “ well my playthrew I chose this option so why isn’t it the canon”
This is the problem with this fanbase in general.
Regardless of in game character choices, there is a set Canon ending right? Like what happens in fallout 4? Did NV end with house or yes man? Regardless of choices. There should always be 1 linear timeline of events
We don’t know though and barely any of the story canon ever gets fully established past fallout 3. NV/4 allows choices and vastly different outcomes compare to the games that come before them.
I feel like people think the show was made for the people of the fallout sub but they don’t realize the fallout show was made for people of r/all and lore to a screenwriter is fucking useless if it doesn’t make the best tv. I just think a lot of people are beyond unrealistic, and think fallout is this cultural icon of an ip that’s instantly recognizable to the masses and it’s lore/story can’t be changed.
True but it’s also what made halo complete shit to the majority of the fanbase
Difference the showrunners of Halo show never played the games and didn't want to follow its plot or respect the setting. Jonathan Nolan, the Fallout showrunner is actually a fan of the games and was in charge of the first season of Westworld. I've got more faith in a showrunner who knows how to run a TV show and is personally excited to work on a license they love over some nobody trying to staple their OC project on a licence they clearly don't give a shit about.
If JN likes Fallout, I’m gonna hold out hope he came up with something interesting like the NCR and Brotherhood burying the hatchet finally or the NCR going through a time of crisis and the Brotherhood stepping up in the power vacuum.
Given how picky Bethesda is about who touches their IP and how they use it, I think it's going to be brilliant. Winter of Atom, for those of you who are familiar, is an incredible story, and if this show is even half that quality it will still be worth watching.
>and lore to a screenwriter is fucking useless if it doesn’t make the best tv. Here's something maybe *you* don't realize? As someone who enjoys this specific property, that *isn't* a TV show, I *do* get to judge them for putting "make the best TV show possible [full stop]" as their goal. If they want to make the best TV show possible, they shouldn't be wasting this IP. They need to be aiming to make the "best Fallout TV show" possible, or there was no point to using the IP. Because if they make a TV series that wildly violates the lore of the games, it's going to upset enthusiasts, but it's also going to diminish the power of the show to act as a method to get new potential players into the games. If the games conflict with the show lore, and you come to like the show, it *also* hurts in *that* direction. At the end of the day if they need to make concessions on lore accuracy to tell a specific story, their writers are bad writers. And I do get to judge them for that fact. There is room in the Fallout universe to tell essentially any story you want that fits into the overarching aesthetic of retro-futurist, post-post-Apocalypse and if they are so hardline on executing a specific idea that they decide to make the *world* they are licensing fit their *ideas*, that is a poor use of an IP. And that's not just limited to Fallout. That said, I'm not terribly interested in the TV show in the first place and haven't followed any of the pre-release marketing.
A reasonable take? Prepare to be downvoted into oblivion
I get your words. But you still get to play the games if you don't like the show. So you have the right to complain about the show, but does anyone really care? And if the show fails, would Bethesda take any useful ideas from it? There is also, absolutely, an argument to be made that altering or dispensing with some lore will make a better show without alienating gamers. By the way, you can't predict what number of gamers will watch the series, let alone who will become disheartened by discrepancies. You could even argue, despite/because of the incongruencies, that both the game and tv worlds become more interesting as a result. Just a what-if. Final thing: you aren't a bad writer for cheezing things. You're a bad writer if you're writing is truly uninspired and doesn't compel anything in the audience.
From what I’m reading on here there are a lot of passionate folks with strong opinions who started playing with Fallout 1 and 2. The tv show needs to appeal to the broader public to be successful (depending on your definition of success), and I’m guessing more people are familiar with 3, NV, and 4. I would guess they are also wanting to appeal to a younger demographic, so the newer fans are more the target audience. As a more casual fan who started with 3, loved 3 and NV, then phased out of playing video games before 4, I’m totally hyped to see this tv show being made. I hope it’s a decent story and they get the tone right (I’d even prefer a wild wasteland feel). I’ll be happy with that and let others argue over canon.
I'm looking forward to the show, but the kid in me who devoured Fallout Demo, Fallout 1, and Fallout 2 wants to see his NCR with their shiny city and the Brotherhood as the isolationist techno cult they should be at this point. Still, having seen the trailer, can I get a Brotherhood sweater that *doesn't* come apart inside a year?
Here's the thing: Fallout is one of those shows that should have gone the Love, Death and Robots route. A different story each episode, all loosely recognized as canon. Taking it in a direction with 3 different stories is inevitably going to cause issue especially if any of the new material supercedes old accepted canon. Especially when the creators inevitably end up shitting on people's favorite factions. The *best* way they could have approached this is the Halo Legends style. A bunch of one of short stories that get told and you can see what did/didn't work with the fans. And the best part is, YOU CAN STILL GO AS NUTS AS YOU WANT. Because this is Fallout, there's limited radio range and most stories are told by people who heard it from someone else. Want a robot uprising? Sure, do it. Enclave vs BOS vs Mutants vs Canadian resistance? Why the hell not? There was an opportunity for gold here and they missed it.
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With your concept could have had the Mysterious Stranger pop here or there every few episodes to save the then episode's protagonist.
I'm going into this show basically just thinking of it as a side thing, maybe it'll be canon maybe it won't be. I don't really care. I literally don't care what the show does as long as it still feels like fallout. Are there somethings that I dislike, absolutely, but this is pretty big for the franchise and if this show is good and does well, I hope that there will be more non-game content to come (crossing my fingers for a Cyberpunk Edgerunners style anime)
They stated it was going to be canon already as confirmed by Bethesda. Thing is if they screw up too badly they could also retcon parts as well.
Dislike that. Dislike that a lot. I just hope they have some competent people who actually understand Fallout lore and it's story. I think I'm done with the franchise if they retcon either of the first two games. That'd be pretty disrespectful imo.
What could they possibly retcon? There's barely any lore on the Boneyard other than one town in it, two factions, it getting nuked in FO1, and apparently it (or at least parts of it) is a hellhole during FNV.
People are too accustomed to their imaginary NCR, where all towns are rebuilt as late 19th century America, safe and clean.
if the NCRs population in fallout 2 is anything to go off it wouldn't be unreasonable tho iirc the stated population there was 700,000 which is almost equivalent to the population of all of California in 1880 (864,694) So like, the NCRs got enough people to make it work
That’s not imaginary, the NCR is like that in fallout 2 (as are some other settlements in the region) and the NCR has only expanded since then. There’s also dialogue in new Vegas about how safe things are back west deeper in NCR teritory
The problem is people expecting every landscape looks like NCR's capital city, which was built by G.E.C.K. Some major settlements like Junktown would be far less developed compared to Shady Sands, no need to say about even more minor settlements scattered around the desert.
"I think New Vegas and Fallout 2 are canon" -freedom of speech meme guy.
Oh who knows. I assume some people will pick something from the non-canonical Fallout Bible that never made it into a video game. Most likely the thing that causes the mass outrage will be a child with a pet Cat.
It's where the Followers are based and it's where the NCR Reserve is, lol.
yeah a lot of folks are passing around that quote where Razz talks about how the boneyard wasn't a great place to raise kids and most people have never heard of it, but I think he just means most Mojave folks haven't cuz the boneyard has a whole UNIVERSITY and is the FoA's main base like it's not abandoned or anything. I think it will take some place in the boneyard but Lucy's vault will probably be in the LA outskirts (which we know from Caesars childhood wasn't very safe or protected so it's more likely for such places to look so deserted like in the trailer)
Nobody said it was abandoned, but Razz says more than just it isn't a great place to live. He says there are friends there as well who tend to die very quickly and that his only choice was to join the Army or end up a fiend and die.
The two factions I mentioned, yes. Would be really hard for them to retcon that unless they say something like "there's never been any followers in this state."
"I think the Followers and NCR having key government institutions there are important" - Freedom of Speech Meme Guy.
I have no idea what you're rambling about.
I'm mainly hoping they don't disregard the events of those games. Just a fear of mine.
I feel the same way about the first 2 games as some of the story was confirmed cannon thanks to fallout 3 dialog with Harold. I could see things about NV definitely being changed since it was done by another studio as well apart from Bethesda.
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I think instead of all of these live action shows, they should turn more things into animation. I've heard John Wick is getting an anime, so hopefully that's the gateway.
I'm mostly concerned the fact that NV's quality keeps Todd up at night will cause the show to disregard all of the established west coast stuff. it's their IP to do that if they want, and I'm sure it'll still be decent but it will just feel like fan fiction to me.
I don't think Todd cares, but there's definitely some executive that does.
Honestly I think Todd Howard saying the show is canon is his way of saying f you to obsidians decision of being able to pick your own legacy. We all know Bethesda production are cookie cutter endings and I think he might feel some type of way about NV being generally more accepted as the best fallout and better for Role playing.
Todd has only ever said positive things about Obsidian, please take your meds.
Some of y'all live full time in a fantasy world. Every single time Todd, in particular, has been asked he's praised Obsidian and NV. There is no rivalry there except the one made up by fans in their own head.
Bethesda should just leave the west coast alone
West and East. They have an entire mid west, south to touch upon or even Alaska/hawaii.
We had a Midwest and it was badass until Bethchudsa decided to non canon it
My concern isn't that my choices in FNV aren't canon. My concern is the BOS appearing as the major power in LA when that hasn't been the case since at least FO2. Also no idea why that airship looks like the Prydwen since that was built out of ruins in DC. Also weird to not see the NCR at all since they're the functioning state in LA But I'm also open to the show being good, I want that. The trailer could easily have framed things a certain way to not only make the show for existing fans. Or maybe the plot is about Maxson's BOS returning to LA with all their East Coast tech and contesting control of the area with the NCR, etc
My canon is F1 F2 and FNV. 3 and 4 are full of inconsistencies. That said, Fallout 3 is my absolute favorite because it is fun. If the show is well done, I will watch it. But if it's BS, then I don't.
FO3 my favorite due to it was my first and Harold was how I learned about some of fallout 1/2 to take Intrest into trying them out. And yeah I dropped halo after MC had sex with an alien sympathizer who help killed aton of humans… I hope this show doesn’t go that route at all of fudging up lore too bad.
I'm a post Bethesda player so I look forward to seeing the part of the fallout universe I haven't seen
I'm just glad that, in the trailer at least, they are visually representing the environment, clothing weapons, enemies etc. pretty much like we see in the games we love, contrary to the Witcher on netflix which completely shat on the author.
This actually gets me kinda hyped to know what happened to the west coast after NV, I was kinda displeased when I saw that Prydwen 2.0 but with this post, you got me thinking about it now. Thanks!
As long as it doesn’t butcher the lore and everything the games stand for like the halo show I know it’ll be 10/10
The show isn't even out yet. Can we just chill out until it's actually out and THEN we can say what's good or bad about it? So far I mostly see good in the trailer.
Is it possible that the brotherhood force shown isn’t in NCR territory and they are planning on invading or something?
My issue isn't who won in New Vegas. What I do see is a complete misrepresentation of the Brotherhood of Steel. The bio lists them as "A group devoted to bringing law and order to the wastes.". The Western Brotherhood only really cares about technology, and that isn't even mentioned. I don't really care; it's just something I noted.
Cannon: a large, heavy piece of artillery, typically mounted on wheels, formerly used in warfare. Canon: a collection of rules or texts that are widely considered to be authoritative or official.
Translation: it's gonna be utter shit and if you don't like it, you're a neanderthal.
But if they don’t start with “war never changes” that’ll say something.
I thought it was being billed as its own story in the Fallout world. I’m taking it as such. This isn’t based on any game.
I think most of it could/would be solved if they didn't say it was canon as there will be glaring details that are incorrect. For instance in Harry Potter the books are canon and the movies are based on the books but rake liberties and most don't have issues with these. Stuff like dumbeldore yelling when he didn't have become fun memes and other inconsistencies are for better movies scenes (such as Harry seeing Pettigrew on the map, Harry didn't see him lupin did but it makes for a better scene if Harry sees him and tells lupin. Most of the issue could just be ignored if they didn't make a point to say it's canon. At the end of the day however it is a make-believe show about make-believe stories from a make-believe game about a make-believe world. It should just be fun to see it come to life but as with anything it will probably tear the general fan into two camps of love vs hate.
It could have all been fixed if they just did it in a new location untouched by any fallout game.
Seems to me my biggest complaint, which really doesn’t bother too much, it’s too clean nice and colorful for my taste.. however, still better than being too, black, gray, dark and boring
It’s okay I heard theirs an easy fix for that. I introduce to everyone the fallout 3 green tint filter!
My fav 😃
Other than it possibly contradicting some ttrpg stuff I worked up, Im good to go. Lorehawks are kind of concentrated anti-fun. Like, if the whole show isn't shot isometrically from cranes, to look like 1, its gonna be heresy.
Okay, I know it's a joke, but I kinda want a fan film like this where everyone moves on her based steps. Going upstage requires a weird waggle walk.
I like it- maybe as a "planning montage" thing.
I think the problem is that Bethesda does not or cannot write fallout settings as anything other than bombed out shitholes that look like they did right after the war, when we know for pretty damn certain that california, while not perfect, has recovered SIGNIFICANTLY. We know they have an industrial economy, the ability to print money, manufacture clothing armor and weapons, ability to maintain vertibirds, and have the ability to produce their own food on a mass scale. There’s still some monsters and raiders but by an large it’s not something you’re gonna worry about much if you stay in any of the cities or on some of the major highways but from what we’ve seen it looks surprising bombed out, and that’s a bit concerning, especially given how Bethesda has treated every other location I’d they wanna give a canon ending they can go for it, but it’s more the literal setting itself I’m worried about, Todd doesn’t understand that the march and progress of humanity no matter what is a major theme in fallout, it’s not about reveling in the rubble.
I just hope the show isn’t trying to make social statements in our world every 5 minutes.
Is this head cannon in the room with us right now? No one is saying this. Literally not a single person. You're just making shit up to either karma farm or try and validate your own opinion. And the worst part is the people here have eaten enough Bethesda branded crayons to buy it. No, people are upset about them canonizing an ending because the game was written in a way to make your choices matter. Once you know what actually occurred in a story it invalidates the other options. BGS was unable to make the east coast interesting enough for the TV show, and that's become all of our problem.
It's been 13 actual years, and 15 years in the fallout timeline. New Vegas is my favorite fallout, but very few people who pick it up now are going to care whether or not the games ending has been canonized by something current. Some people want to know how the story continuing, not just whether or not their specifically chosen game ending was canonical. I for one am excited to see how things turned out. Complaints about the show's story for the Brotherhood and NCR being canon are like complaining about Elder Scrolls 6 letting people know who actually won the civil war in Skyrim. The fallout world is big enough for multiple stories across multiple mediums to coexist
The only thing I'm confused about is what's up with the cyclopes and what is it doing in Fallout
So centaurs and ghost people are fine, but a mutation resulting in one eye is where you draw the line?
Well when the series always has the result of mutation with ghouls, it just seems kind of out of place Plus he just looks a little too normal outside of the eye
Trogs, Psykers, Slags, Children of Atom, Swampfolk, Ghost People, and Wendigo are all already existing human mutations. Is it actually out of place, or just new to the franchise?
Like I said, just looks a little too clean/normal like he belongs in Star trek but ya frankly new is probably better in the end so it doesn't stagnant like Star Wars has lately
Well, the cyclops is a vault dweller, so it makes sense they would be clean vs. if they were a wastelander. Every Vault has it's own experiments, so it doesn't even seem out of place to me at all that a cyclops Vault Dweller might exist somewhere in the wasteland.
I get vault tech had fucked up experiments but at the end of the day there was a vauge purpose behind the experiments, what was the goal of vault Polyphemus here lol (again if this is the biggest thing that stands out to me, I'm sure the rest of the series is going to be fine, I think Walton Goggins is going to be awesome)
Vault Tech had experiments ranging from “ethically horrendous but could give some good information” to “what the fuck is wrong with you” to “we are bored, we have a million vaults, this would be funny” A vault where they mutated one person into becoming a cyclops is definitely well within the realm of possibility for them lol
Even the funny vaults, save for the two sex ones, all had some purpose. Although FO4 was already forgetting that with some of their ideas like the addicts vault.
Yeah, having Goggins and Parnell are going to make the show amazing. I'd be surprised if everyone didn't love the cyclops with Chris Parnell playing the role.
There is already criticism coming from the usual offenders who take things too seriously. I say this as someone who highly disliked Amazons adaptation of LOTR. But to critique a show that hasn’t even been realised yet in a universe where satire and irony where everything is ridiculously over the top based on ideas of what is ‘Canon’ is just setting yourself up for disappointment. I would argue there is no such thing as ‘Canon’ Fallout anyway, every single game is full of inconsistencies - and I don’t even think this removes from Fallout - it even adds to it the humour of the franchise. Stop gatekeeping it based on your own personal biases.
Uh The NV endings directly affect New Vegas. The show takes place in Los Angeles, in the Boneyard, 4 hours away by car and god knows how long by foot/brahmin, the events of that game should be wholly inconsequential to the immediate area aside from references. If you side with the Legion, it’s made very clear that the Legion is too big for its britches and will collapse under its own weight. They might never get past Victorville or the San Bernardino Mountains, or if they take Coachella that’s so out of the way they might actually just up and die there of exposure If you side with the NCR, Vegas is a frontier outpost slowly being absorbed, and it’s still too far away to really matter to anyone living in old Los Angeles If you side with house or Yes Man, same issue, it’s an independent political entity that isn’t going to be invading Southern California. I don’t see how anyone can be made about this possibility. Probably the only “canon” thing that could affect this show is what you do to the brotherhood in NV, and even then they were very close to being destroyed before you get involved. As for me, I really don’t like the FO4 aesthetic of the universe. Everything looks too clean, almost like an Apple commercial with smudge and dirt on it. FO3 and NV felt as grimy as described.
The problem is that Bethesda doesn't respect Canon at all and is terrible at writing. I don't know what happened to the people who used to write the quests and lore for Morrowind and Oblivion but those people are gone and Bethesda is terrible at writing now. Fallout 4 incredibly weak on the RPG/ writing side and everything I've heard about starfield is that it has weak World building and bad writing. Bethesda seems to be very into the aesthetic of fallout and they love the brotherhood steel because they look cool but I have zero confidence that they're going to actually write a story that makes sense in the time and place they've decided to set it. Just from what they showed in the trailer it already doesn't look right. They're in the middle of NCR territory after decades of the NCR being in control of building up the region. Maybe they'll surprise us but I have zero confidence in that. It seems like Todd Howard is still angry that New Vegas is a better game than he'll ever make.
Some people need to grasp that nothing will ever be 100% accepted and their pointless “get over it” or “why is everyone complaining” topics only further along the issues.
I don't care about canon, I care that it looks expensive yet boring
Your Canon ending is your Canon ending. This is Todd using Bethesda money to show you his headcanon.
Honestly, people need to stop watching YouTubers that just tear everything apart. Find some joy in new interpretations of things we like. Stop letting self important narcissists ruin everything for you.
I don't finish games so ignorance is bliss?
No, my dear! That's not the problem! The Problem is that BADthesda doesn't respect canon - no, not head-canon (because for me that's Wildcard, so the ending where you take over Vegas, which is of course not canon!). No, the problem is that BADthesda thinks stuff up like the Fusion-Cores for the Power Armor (and they turned PA into a Mech that you step into, which it wasn't in previous games! It was more flightless Iron Man Armor than Mech Warrior or Knight from Warhammer 40K) which last minutes instead of centuries (the canon in Fallout 1 and 2 tells you that they did experiment with small energy cells, but the armors were consuming them at alarming rate, so they installed a small fusion reactor that lasts centuries!) There's also the fact that they destroy everything to keep Fallout in a state of perpetual stagnation! The NCR being the prime example! They were a faction that BUILT new cities (like Shady Sands and Vault City!) from the groud up (so new post-war-construction!) and we aren't talking about random shacks, but cities with thousands of inhabitants, cities that have clean running water, sewer systems, defenses, people working regular jobs without fearing for their next meal etc....and now they blow it up and do so OFF SCREEN! Seriously, 200+ years since the Great War and only one faction was truly trying to rebuild? Come on, that's unrealistic! Humans thrive on working together, thus we'd have people rebuilding, sure not all efforts would work (hell, some factions might fight each other for resources!), but over all there should be a lot more civilization back! People shouldn't live in shacks or houses that look like the war was yesterday. BADthesda's approach to story telling is at fault here, it might work for Elder Scrolls, but not for the wasteland! Fallout 1 and 2 (and New Vegas!) are very good games and they show rebuilding efforts (Shady Sands in Fallout 1 is a tiny village, but it's a village of new buildings, it grows its own crops, has clean drinking water etc. and in Fallout 2 Shady Sands is the capital of the NCR and it's a town already, that works with neighboring towns (you can even help, by for example repairing a nuclear reactor for clean power etc.)... On the other hand Fallout 3 shows only a destroyed Washington DC, nobody truly rebuilds! Hell, the BoS holds the Pentagon, but even they haven't restored anything there, except for some computers and Liberty Prime...but the bathrooms are in disgusting state, as is the rest of the Pentagon! Fallout 4? The same! There's a couple of established settlements (Diamond City and Goodneighbor)...but they are shanty towns/slums! 200+ years and people live in slums (often with the skeletal remains of those who died in the Great War still there!)...seriously, you can't tell me that people would be ok with that and that people forgot what a broom is! So yeah, don't tell me that we are the problem here! ps: Why do they have a CYCLOPS in a Vault? Vaults (unless they were experiments by Vault Tech and for example didn't fully close etc.) don't let radiation in, so why is a mutant there? That makes no sense at all!
Go into this show with the same enthusiasm as we had for the Halo show on Paramount and we will all be disappointed
I saw an interview going into Halo where the creators said they were working in their own timeline. Then about halfway through the second episode I turned to my partner and said "Oh, this is a drama about how Master Chief becomes Master Chief, then next season is going to have way more action. I bet the internet is going to hate this." Two for three so far. Looking forward to the second season.
The creators and Todd Howard have stated they view this as the next fallout installment so basically Fallout 5. Writing for Tv shows has been shit these past few years so it’s understandable for people to be concerned how they’re going to handle the show story wise cause it’s all gonna be canon. Personally I have my own headcanon and fallout universe so I can always change things to suit my needs
It's understandable but some people have taken it to far like the drama with the one eyed vault dweller some people act like that's the end of the world
Imagine, a noble company like Vault Tec experimenting on their residents. What has the world come to?
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Exactly what’s already happening before it even comes out.
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To be fair, we're all still waiting for Bethesda's first good fallout entry. Less of a downward spiral and more of a..... free fall to one's death?
Fallout 3, whether you like it or not you'll have to admit was good enough to bring a dead Fallout franchise back to life.
It gave us new Vegas which is probably the highest praise I can give a game, but it was going to do well regardless of it's quality. You attach Bethesda's name to something and have Todd give a 30 minute presentation and it'll sell like hotcakes. 4, 76, starfield, even 3 and oblivion to some extent have been coasting off the momentum their old games got them and good ole fashioned marketing. It did wonders to quell the critics of their design.....until the games actually released that is. And the cycle repeats. I think we really got to see it first hand with starfield. A rough outline of a game that forgot what people liked about their design. But at over 10 million copies sold and probably just as many game pass subscriptions, I don't see them changing that strategy much. Especially with people still defend it to death in droves because "well I had fun" is apparently a catch all to make people stop disliking something now. Morrowind's a hell of a drug isn't it?
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Oh I know you disagree. If everyone was on the same page I wouldn't have said anything. I'm gonna be real with you man, if fallout died in 2004, we'd lose one game worth playing and save ourselves a lot of embarrassment. I'm willing to make that trade.
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How are you not embarrassed? They managed to take one of the founders or western RPGs and turn it into a glorified looter shooter and way to farm money with micro transaction from children and slow fans. How can you not be embarrassed to enjoy a franchise that does that kind of thing?
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Because people associate you with it? Because you support it financially? Because the things you do enjoy are grouped together with it? It might not be your work, but it is your decision to deem it up to your standards.
Well theirs also NV fanbase as well who’s mostly all diehard NCR fans who will be mad if NCR ends up losing progress/power. They are already mad about BoS being in NCR turf. Maybe they lost the dam and receded in power and BoS picked up the slack who knows at this point.
Wait, the show is going to reveal which faction controls the Mojave? Another reason to not watch, I guess.
It’s possible with how BoS is back in force in California and NCR representation shown in show. Mr house also shown as a casted role. Show is considered canon by Bethesda so it could also impact all future games as well.
I see, I can't say I'm a fan of this choice. I'll just wait to see if it impacts future games or not.
If they was smart they would have done the show in an area that’s untouched by lore. But I guess they wanted an area that already has story so they don’t have to get too creative to establish story.
Let's be on this table. Hollywood is going to take liberties with. The fallout show and there's nothing we can do about that. All I ask is that they stick to the. Established plot of whatever story they're trying to cover Inshot Honest hearts has Josh Graham and if there is no Josh Graham. Then I refuse to accept your show as fall out end of story.
So I'm literally just coming into the series after listening to a plotty time podcast about the first game. Then over the weekend I saw the trailer for the TV show. I've been trying to soak in as much lore as I can about the series, but from what I'm gathering is that there is so much that can be done with this series as a whole that I'm not understanding why there would be hate towards the show at all. Maybe that's just my noob status coming through.
I honestly think they just need to pick a faction ending to make canon from NV. You can ignore F3 and F4 because they take place in the East and probably won’t affect the events or the series
In the trailer there is a guy riding a horse. It’s now cannon and we should get horses, mutated 2 headed horses, in the next game. I never understood why there are no horses in the game.
If they try to mix everything to appease every kind of public (specially non players) it is gonna be garbage and the fandom is gonna hate it. The backlash is gonna be great. Apparently it is gonna be in NCR territory, so we can expect them there. That poster of someone clad in BoS armor looking like a good guy walking alongside others is quite farcical and nonsense in all aspects, unless it was Lyons' rogue sector.
I’m fine if they don’t include the NCR or if the NCR has a smaller presence, but they need to explain it or what happened. If they want to ignore stuff that’s already been set up in the game, they should have made the show set in like the Midwest or something.
Anything is possible. This show is gonna suck so bad we all know it lol
I'm excited af for the show, but I think people are completely justified in being upset if there are now "canon" endings to the games. Imo there's no point in giving players choice in a game if you're just going to retroactively dismiss those choices. I think the best example of this is Gears 5. There's a choice in that game where one of two major characters will die, and whatever game is next will have to invalidate all the players who unknowingly made the non-canon choice. If you're going to do that, just don't give players the choice OR make the choice a new game plus "what if" type of thing. The beauty of Fallout is that it can be set anywhere so they could avoid this drama altogether. If they choose to continue a story or canonize an ending then they're just asking for the backlash.
That's a redundant argument. Fallout 2 made canon endings with Tandi surviving and Shady Sands thriving to become NCR. Fallout 3 and New Vegas made it came canon the Enclave lost in 2, NCR continues to thrive, Chosen One travelled with Marcus and . 4 made it canon that the BoS survived while the Lyons' died and that the Capital Wasteland is better than where we left off.
So your argument is basically "Stop being nostalgic and just accept what's new"? That's all well and good, but what happens when 'what's new' is either idiotic, boring, of shitty quality, overly woke, or some combination thereof? You're gonna tell me to praise the shit out of Disney Live Action remakes next? Nah, man. I acknowledge nostalgia might be unhealthy for you. But in this case, I'm gonna cling to it if the alternative is me mindlessly calling anything of shitty quality a 'masterpiece'. I'll rather be a mindless nostalgia zombie than a mindless SJW corporate zombie.
You’re bringing in shit I didn’t even discuss. I’m mainly hitting at people complaining about their faction not being center of attention or getting the endings they wanted. You are the one bringing wokeness into the discussion. I’m not forcing you to enjoy it or even watch it nor did I say that.. I’m saying you can’t go in with the expectation if you’re favorite endings being the cannon ones same goes for choices you make In game that have divergent paths with different outcomes. Bethesda already said the show is going to be canon and it’s in an area where we will probably end up seeing the outcomes of a few games. People already upset BoS is in NCR turf and NCR not being shown more than a flag in the background. ( could allude to maybe ncr lost the dam and now in a weaken state and BoS reformed/gather strength after.) who knows at this point. Anything can be retcon from the path choices available in game. That’s the beautiful flaw of fallout is it’s mostly up to player discretion of what is cannon or not until a newer game speaks of past events that makes something the actual cannon which is rarely done between games. I said it many times I do wish they done the show in a area not touched by the games as it would be more smooth but I guess they wanted to hit on a area already known to fans to draw in more attention and already have established lore to pull show ideas from.
"Woke cyclops agenda". Get over yourself