Frank Horrigan is a BEAST in close combat. Like an absolute monster. He ripped a deathclaw into pieces with his bare hands.
But Smasher has superior cyberwear with the Sandevistan and the on board weaponry (a freaking rocket launcher). So Smasher would have the upper hand as long as he stays in a safe distance.
I'm pretty sure Frank's already on a constant cocktail of the strongest Combat Drugs, as his FEV mutation wasn't exactly stable. Kinda like Bane with his Venom.
I think that's why he explodes when you beat him.
The oil rig was already set to explode. But when you bifurcate him he talks shit to you for a while then his head just kinda pops like the guy from scanners.
https://tenor.com/es/view/frank-horrigan-enclave-fallout-gif-5405541757514269539
What people aren’t saying is that jet makes you EXPEREINCE time as if it were slowed
The sande lets you move around as if you were at normal speed WHILE TIME IS SLOWED.
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy different
>The sande lets you move around as if you were at normal speed WHILE TIME IS SLOWED.
That's not actually how a Sandevistan works – it increases the user's reflexes and shortens reaction time. The super-speed effect in game is a gameplay conceit to make the inclusion of a Sandevistan viable since you can't improve the player's reaction time in the real world.
Kind of… in the edge runners series it seems that it also lets you move a lot faster that you should be able too. Not quite superhuman levels but I *think* it’s mentioned at some point that prolonged use does cause excessive stress on the body
It could also be that the sandevistan of the 2070s is very different than that of the 2020s. They talk about it as if it's cutting-edge military grade tech, so it doesn't make any sense for it to be the same as the one from 40 years before.
Especially since it's worth pointing out cyberware has essentially completely changed from then, 2020's sandie was a chip you slotted into a box in your lower back, a neuroprocessor, which was basically the motherboard for any and all other cyberware
Yeah, in the show the sandevistan of 2076 was a whole ass spinal cord attachment thing, which may bump up the actual speed/reflexes alot more than a chip would alone. The live speed of David blasting the big dude looked insanely fast, almost teleportation
For large sizes it take bigger doses not stronger potency. However for his mutant status it would require something with an extra kick.
Ultra-jet should do the trick, as would as a nice mixture of psychobuff, which he probably already lives on.
Plus don’t forget gameplay, a lot of limitations existed when fallout 2 came out so if you’ll allow it in your head cannon… frank has access to ALL enclave level weaponry… I wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole, Mf would pop out with a fat man with a mirv attachment or the tesla cannon!
Don't forget that smasher in the tabletop does not have stats.
He is the physical embodiment of "this run is over"
Frank, on the other hand, has stats. He is meant to be defeated. Of course, by turning the automated defense system on him and bringing a small army, you can win.
Other than in the game, smasher has always been depicted as an undefeatable monster that will tear through literally anything and everything to kill you.
The only reason you actually beat him in the game is because V is like the ultimate solo who, while slowly dying, just goes balls out. V has nothing to lose and everything to gain. They will die if they do nothing. So why would facing death incarnate be a problem when they are trying to overcome much worse.
Otherwise, every other person, be it in tabletop or in the edgerunners anime, meets there end at smashers hand. Even if they had big protagonist energy, they still lost.
I don't know about Cyberpunk Red, but in a supplement book for Cyberpunk 2020 (Operation Firestorm vii) Adam does have stats. In 2020 there is a stat cap of 10, you can increase certain attributes with cybernetics and Smasher sure does take advantage of this. Using a full body conversion, Adam has a 15 in reflexes (which the stat would be equivalent to agility in classic fallout since it is also the god stat) and a body stat (kind of like strength and constitution) of 28 and a movement allowance of 20( can move 60 metres in a turn, around 3 seconds!)
This is just his regular Sampson FBC, a model used in construction if memory serves me right. In 2023-ish Smasher has access to a Dragoon FBC (in 2077 he's sort of got one) and a DaiOni, which is nuts because it's a powered armour full body conversion.
Personally, I think that 2023 Smasher in the Sampson would get a good beating in on Frank, then the plasma weapons of the Enclave would change that. If Smasher is in the Dragoon it will be a fair fight. In the DaiOni though, the odds are more in Smasher's favour.
But the insane speed of 2077 sandevistans will easily outperform Frank's brute strength. No doubts.
Yeah I just don’t think 2077 can lose here. People are talking about a Fat Man and such, but he could legitimately catch it out of the air and throw it back. Time more or less stops when a Sandevistan is employed, compared to Jet which just slows it down
>The only reason you actually beat him in the game is because V is like the ultimate solo who, while slowly dying, just goes balls out.
The only reason V win is because he/she have also Johnny on the chip wich help V holding that much chrome otherwise V would have became cyberpsycho a long time ago and also not have what it takes to defeat smasher.
Well Frank is essentially the same thing the creators of fallout 2 have already said Frank had to die to further the plot if not he wouldn’t be defeated otherwise.
Yeah but they built frank for the game. He doesn't come from a tabletop game where he was a game ender for many, many years, only to finally be defeated by a homeless man with a gun.
Unlike smasher who was beaten to death by a guy who rents an apartment and owns his own cars
Beating him in don’t fear the reaper is perfect. Johnny is already dead, V is a corpse walking by that stage, the whole point of attacking Arasaka was to go out in style while not dragging anyone else with them. Dying is a certainty at that point, what does V have to fear from dying to a legend like Smasher? The fact that they actually win somehow wasn’t even a possibility to V until it happened.
I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not saying V was going there to be killed by Smasher, I’m saying he went there expecting to be killed by Arasaka security. Neither Johnny nor V actually expected the plan to work, Johnny straight up says it’s a suicide run and V says they’d rather fall into their grave gun in hand and on fire not dragging anyone down with them.
Smashers armor can withstand a few dozen hits from a railgun that can penetrate multiple feet of solid steel.
Cyberpunk power scaling is crazy.
Tbh your average mid level cyberpunk good with flak armor and a gun would probably ratio frank because the little baby hand guns in cyberpunk can penetrate 2-5 inches of steel.
(Source I've been a cyberpunk ttrpg GM for years lmao)
Smasher has this whole reputation and in Edgerunners we see the threat he is but his fight in Cyberpunk 2077 is so shit, they couldn’t transcribe the legend Adam Smasher is. But Frank Horrigan? Oh man now that’s a threat, FO2 helps the chosen one a lot but that end battle is a tough one.
Yeah the toss up here really is ranged vs. Melee. If we be a little generous and take away the sandevistan (because it’s a little OP even in the cyberpunk universe) then it would be a little more even but Frank can take *several* rockets to the face in the FO2 fight, I feel like environment would be the deciding factor here lol. That is if we’re deciding based on gameplay in each respective game. Not to mention since Frank is a mutant I believe he would have some regenerative abilities… although not in gameplay iirc
Jet is probably on par with a low end sandevistan, but it would not even be comparable to the high end models.
Edit: some sandy’s slow down time by 85% and with the right high end cybernetics a person can move at normal speed during that, meaning you can run like 50+ mph. The same logic applies for throwing a punch, so image being hit by a giant robot throwing a punch going above 200mph.
Not to mention Sandevistan is just one of the many many ‘enhancements’ that Adam Smasher has. The technology at Horrigan’s disposal is not even in the same league.
So Smasher would turn Horrigan into a cut of fuckable meat, in other words.
Actually he can lmao, while not shown in the game, Adam has a Gemini body (which is an artificial body) which he used to go clubbing, which looked like a young, blonde Elvis Presley.
Pondsmith himself stated as much [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/tgta72/the_last_50_years_have_been_wild_for_michiko_but/i163le3/) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/rnl808/can_v_get_the_adam_smasher_treatment/hpuat9c/)
The best Sandy in CP2077 I think slows down time by 85% for 30 seconds. I’ve seen online this one is comparable to David’s from the Edgerunner show. Smasher calls his rudimentary.
I’m guessing Smashers at a bare minimum slows down time by 85% if not more, and has a longer time of effect, and does not appear to have a significant cooldown either.
Tbh i thought that Smasher meant "rudimentary" in the sense that a sandevistan is just "baby's first military grade implant". the one david uses in the show is by no means rudimentary as he uses a Militech Apogee which is the best one available in the game and is the only one that can get close to matching adam smashers speed, his is a little faster i believe
Yeah.
We're debating whether Horrigan even has a shot against the sandevistan, but Smasher considers it one of the least impressive options in his arsenal.
Horrigan has no chance.
No way. We see Smasher up against someone with a high level Sandy (David) and Smasher just runs rings around him.
Also normal Jet wouldn't work on Horrigan, he'd need Super Jet, and we've only seen that produced in one place (Capital Wasteland).
so to make it a fair fight, it needs to be a cyberware-d up Adam Smasher vs. a Frank Horrigan full on every type of chem out there..
sounds like a, somewhat, fair fight to me. 10x jet 10x psychobuff 10x mentats....
Horrigan is a fucking monster.
But Smasher is Adam fucking Smasher man. The tech of CyberPunk2077 automatically gives him an edge. He is the GOAT of the Cyberpunk universe >!until V surpasses him. But V is also a monster. Pre 2.0 V especially.!<
V >!is a revenant, revived by actual in-world techno-necromancy, and has literally no humanity stat, indicating V is not technically human and likely does not have (if such a thing exists) a soul anymore. V died at the beginning. Dead Dead. Hardware set to OFF, turned back on, and the software is actively being overwritten. V is a bigger monster than smasher because Smasher still actually has a (tiny) humanity stat and is limited by certain parameters. V has no such limits as an undead.!<
Man I fucking love the questions cyberpunk leaves open about >!human souls, if they exist, and if a computer program can flawlessly imitate a human, feel emotion, etc, does that make it human? Our brains are just meat computers running on electrical pulses. If a computer can get as complex? What’s the difference? Is there a soul?!<
When talking to Alt about getting V to Mikoshi, Johnny says "V just slots back in her body right? Nothing changes?"
Alt says "Everything changes"
Took me a couple playthroughs to process what that implies
I mean one could say that our brains are just computers. All our emotions can be tracked in brain activity, and our reactions are due to stimulation causing a response from our brains. If a computer can do that? What’s the difference?
Just devils advocate, not taking a side.
The big difference is what “you” recognize IMO. To everyone else it will be basically indistinguishable but “you” don’t get to experience anything else
Basically what exists now will have experienced everything you have experienced, but you will experience none of what it will
Fallout 3's Replicated Man quest handled the morality of the Synths better and they were just hunters from the Institute looking for an escaped Synth being aided by the DC branch of the Railroad.
Cyberware was really nerfed but dashing is op as fuck now so it's a trade off.
Smasher also got "buffed" in 2.0 and PL. plus npc enemies have much better combat AI now
My V from v1.0 - v1.5 had nearly 900HP and a revolver that did 200,000 headshot damage with over 2,000 armor.
My same V from v2.12 has 653HP, the perks for the 200,000 damage revolver were removed and 1029 armor.
I also used to regenerate health in-combat faster than most enemies could damage me but now it's something like >10% per second.
One of my 2.0 Vs is an absolute monster. Has all the mitigation-ware and the militech apogee. Throwing knives putting out thousands of damage into headshots like they're candy. Overheating into massive EMP pulses and in a state of constant psychosis due to exceeding cyber capacity to the max.
Screen turns red, time slows, all you hear is maniacal laughing as a seemingly infinite supply of knives , axes, and anti personnel laser grid 'nades flow through the air, necks are broken from behind, air dashing into teleportation finishes twisting knives before just poof they're 50 yards away pulling a tomahawk out of the skull of some poor ganger, they get back on their bike that jumped off that has been slowly traveling through the battlefield since time has been at 15% the entire time before doing a wheely jump into the sunset back onto the highway.
Makes anything my 1.0 characters could do look stupid.
[Flawless Assassination : r/cyberpunkgame (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/16rvyjd/flawless_assassination/)
[Destroy them with lasers! : r/cyberpunkgame (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/16x41kt/destroy_them_with_lasers/)
[Speedy Delivery Service : r/cyberpunkgame (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/16vehz2/speedy_delivery_service/)
2.0 introduced drawbacks to too much cyberware iirc plus better balancing.
Granted I haven’t gone and done a side by side comparison of the new perks and chip skill trees compared to my older builds.
You're not comprehending the power difference between cyberpunk and fallout.
The basic armor in cyberpunk can tank hits from railguns that peirce feet of solid steel. The basic handgun can peirce inches of steel.
The tech doesn't give him an edge. The tech makes Frank a joke.
Adam smasher has a body of 19, meaning he can *easily* lift 1700 lbs above his head, and he can carry 10x that.
He could pick up and throw frank like he was a 3yo child.
Genuinely, the longest part of their fight would be smasher being sad about how easy it was
Nah I think it's interesting, I think most people agree smasher is stronger but it's a neat comparison. Pondsmith just made smasher canonically a goddamned monster war machine and Horrigan is a similar character
Yeah, they occupy the same role, the power levels on the universes itself are very diferent. A monster in CP lore just wallops a Fallout one. The similaries are only on the surface.
When one can outrun whatever you fire at him, it isn't a fair fight.
Exactly. If Adam cannons shoots clean through heavily armored vehicles in CP lore, Power armor might as well be paper.
Mike P. clearly thought "How do I make a Terminator but better?"
Yeah this. Power Armor isn’t even as good as tank armor, it’s advantages mainly come from the ability to turn a crew served or vehicle mounted weapon into a light infantry weapon one man can use. It’s obviously better armor than normal but from the way it seems, it’s not more durable than actual heavy tanks, since it’s not designed to occupy that role.
Nah, they just have tech that makes 9mm hit like 20mm.
The standard issue guns are closer to modern 50bmg.
Smashers' little dinky shoulder misses can penetrate 1700 mm of solid steel before they start to have reduced effectiveness lmafo
Yeah I get the feeling they’re both the type of people for whom violence, domination and sex are closely intertwined
Any fight between them might very well morph into apocalyptic hate sex after a while
Lore wise, probably Adam Smasher but it’d be close. Gameplay wise Frank smashes Adam Smasher, his fight was a fucking joke compared to Frank Horrigan’s fight
The issue with the lore is that it's hard to determine. Both are incredibly strong and have advanced armor. Frank's is the best form of APA the enclave have ever created, but we aren't quite sure what it can take. On the flip side, we don't know how resistant Smasher would be against nuclear-powered high-energy plasma either. Both can rip armored and/or extremely tough units apart with their bare hands. Both have ridiculously high stats, both are seen in their respective lore as the immortal boogeyman.
Honestly speaking, i vote for Frank Horrigan, not because he's stronger, but because Adam smasher is easier to kill than play Fallout 2 =)
(ps i am still stuck in the beginning of Fallout 2. I will try to beat it on my vacation)
New Adam Smasher on the hardest difficulty is a god damn nightmare. Sandy dodges damn near every shot and he can just randomly appear next to you, then unload his endless supply of missile pods.
Lol I’m currently slowly making my way through the game again but took up the hardcore concept. 0 cyberware except for Ping in my cyberdeck and basic Kiroshis. If I die, I have to delete the save. So far so good on my end, but I’m aiming for the secret ending in this. God help me when I go up against Arasaka and Smasher alone.
I was breezing through the game in hardcore with my sandy build, only dying to fall damage by dash jumping to my death. I was also breezing through the Arasaka tower, but that attack killed me more than the whole game. One live with no cyberware against adam sounds like hell. Good luck. What weapon are you using?
Stab with melee weapon and get 3-4 blocks away. The rad scorpions will use all their AP catching up and won't be able to attack, while being in range of yours.
An exo suit that let him manipulate gravity to lift, crush, and smash cars, semi trucks and tanks into a crushed sheet of bloody metal mind you.
And when he used it on Smasher? It pisses him off because he couldn't kill the people running away. After which he proceeded to tear that same exoskeleton apart with his metallic bare hands..
Same guy it's just V is canonically a fucking monster. In the tabletop game both are based on Adam Smasher is basically the GM's 'end the campaign' button. Like the stats are designed to make it so he's impossible to beat.
Yup, the reason why V can handle that amount of modifications to their organs and limbs is because technically there's two person sharing the psychosis load.
I actually love this question, cause it isnt as cut and dry as you might think. Smasher outpowers, outmatches and outguns Horrigan in every single way except one: Absurdity.
Cyberpunk is very, very edgy and serious, everything has a price and a clearly defined limit. Fallout, on the other hand, is silly to its very core. Yes, it is dark and fucked up, but silly. Frank Horrigan should have access to all the Enclave weaponry, so he has Plasma and Laser and Fatmans. In Cyberpunk, nuking the Arasaka Tower was a really big deal while in Fallout, portable Nukes are just a part of normal weaponry.
It is a little bit like comparing a cartoon character to a novel character. Frank should be absolutely demolished, but he has the edge of that Fallout sillyness.
Adam Smasher, hands down. But Frank wouldn't be an easy kill.
Now, if you could get an EMP in there, and it's just down to brute strength and durability, it really is anyone's game.
I think it would be easy. Power levels between the worlds are totally unfair.
Adam shots trough armored tanks, can take shots like one, and moves faster than bullets. Frank doesn't ever hit him. His Sandevistan (in lore) is just insanity, totally not market stuff.
Look, in the Fallout world Frank is a Demon, a Demon that was killed by some dude. Adam is either alive or he was killed by a high functioning Cyberpsycho with powers that would be magical in the Fallout universe.
Both of them were killed in stupid ways in their games. Adam smasher shouldn’t have died to V in game, especially after seeing his strength in edgerunners, and it was confirmed that the only reason frank horrigan died was to plot armor.
If frank was set on cyberpunk 2077 you could probably beat himbwith a vibrator too.
Just Because V is a monster does not mean smasher is weak. It just means V is strong.
No shit i think this is one of the best "who would wins" i've seen in a while. Smasher is an out-and-out monster with a Sandevistan, he IS close combat. Horrigan though is to super mutants what super mutants are to humans AND has power armor and a plasma gun which on its own would provide a solid counter to Sandy (which isn't a literal time stop y'all) but he could take Jet or Psychojet as well. I mean the guy gets cut in half and gets up on his hands to keep talking shit. Smasher's got his Tsunami but Horrigan's got a plasma rifle that's not statistically much different but better against armor. I honestly think Horrigan beats out Smasher and in talking to my roommates who are huge Fallout and Cyberpunk marks they agree. Either way there's not gonna be much of either left whoever wins.
But I mean, when it comes down to it Frank Horrigan is voiced by Michael Dorn and Adam Smasher is not, so.
Depends. Are we talking "game" Adam Smasher or "anime" Adam Smasher? Anime Adam Smasher was a force of nature, but I literally beat in-game Adam Smasher with a vibrator.
Frank. And it's not close. TLDR: Adam's stuff can barely damage Frank, Frank's stuff can melt Adam.
Yeah, Sandev is a game-changing advantage but Smasher lacks the firepower or raw strength to capitalize. It'd take his best firepower to deal slight damage to Frank, while Frank will rock Adam's shit with any blow. Melee range would be a death sentence; no matter how fast he is, Adam isn't gonna do much real damage, and Frank's 10 Agility and ludicrous AP suggest to me that he's much faster than he looks, so there is a solid chance he could still land a big hit even during Smasher's Sandev.
Smasher's guns are all explosive and ballistic, which is quite sub-optimal for this fight. Frank is not going to feel them as much as someone else would, so they won't afford Smasher the battlefield control he normally wields. Meanwhile, any attack Frank hits is absolutely devastating. Metal can't take a punch like flesh can, when dealing with extreme forces like Frank or Adam's physical strength, and Frank's gun has the potential to melt Adam entirely on the very first shot.
Tearing David in half was a *kinda* impressive show of force, but Frank killing a healthy Deathclaw in one casually-delivered punch makes Smasher look almost pedestrian. Cyberpunk is just a more grounded world than Fallout, so lots of the things Frank could deal with very well easily would be a really big deal in Cyberpunk. This is the biggest fight of Adam's life by an exponential margin, while Frank has dealt with monsters and machines that would rampage through Night City(Deathclaws, Sentry bots, Super Mutants). Frank has the experience advantage, here, even if Adam's been making moves for longer.
Basically, Smasher is gimmicks, while Horrigan is real raw power. After Adam's encounter with V, we know what happens when Smasher is confronted by someone with capability beyond that afforded by cybernetics. On a meta level, Frank owes his victory to the significantly more outlandish setting he comes from.
People seem to forget that fallout takes place in the future and although the majority live like peasants, those with access to it have some impressive firepower
Horrigan being something of a machine himself and then clad in that custom power armor, he would melt smasher instantly with his experimental plasma gun - a technology not yet developed in the cyberpunk universe
While smashers has fancy schmany tech.
Fallout universe weapons pack much larger punch. Especially Franks cannon, he literally whips it out from his damn arm.
Smashers has sande vistan, but Frank is also pumped with a nice coctails of psycho crap.
Well, both fuckers are scary.
While Smasher was shown to a menace in the anime and existed in the 2020 tabletop as someone to be reckoned with, I saw Frank Horrigan long before I knew of Cyberpunk 2077 or 2020 and I will say, Horrigan killed a deathclaw easily with a single punch. Teenage me wants to say Horrigan.
Frank Horrigan.
He's twice bigger, much stronger, has stupid resistance to everything, has a goddamn unique Plasma gatling that doesn't even exist in Cyberpunk universe nor has equal in Fallout 2. And a Melee blade the size of Smasher.
He's a Behemoth Super Mutant pumped full of drugs that in the Fallout universe are as strong and potent as cybernetics. And ON TOP of that has custom fitted Power Armor grafted on him. Dude has an Exoskeleton over a body that can already throw cars like they were paper ball. Nuclear powered.
He's fast, like REAL fast, sure that's no Sandevistan, but we saw again and again that Sandevistan isn't a victory guarantee. And has periods of on/off. Frank is just ALWAYS going fast, strong, and hitting stupidly hard.
Not saying that's an easy fight, bit i'm still betting on Frank.
Also, there's a real misconception about technology in Fallout and Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk is not "more advanced" they're just different paths. Cyberpunk LOOKS more futuristic and has microprocessor and all lot of technology from it, but Fallout has harnessed Atomic power far better than Cyberpunk. As well as having magical FEV power. And technically close to immortality.
Both are set in the same time periods.
By the Enclave time and Horrigan they had even a bit more time and the top scientists of the world with absolutely no morals whatsoever.
> Cyberpunk LOOKS more futuristic and has microprocessor and all lot of technology from it, but Fallout has harnessed Atomic power far better than Cyberpunk.
Yeah, this is something that people aren't really getting ITT. Sure, Cyberpunk has a lot of fantastical weapons that are extremely powerful in their own right, but I can't think of any weapon from that universe that can ***disintegrate*** people.
Fallout and cyberpunk are just in two separate universes. One where the culture is 50a and tech socks and fuels is empty, but america is dominant. While, culture, tech and feel advanced. At the cost of america.
I never thought of it, frank is probably the only kindred soul with Adam. They would absolutely love each others attitudes.
I mean, they're still gonna rip each others throats out
Canon Smasher would win most likely, though it would be a good fight. He has speed of course, and lots of firepower, but Frank isn't a slouch and he'll put up a good fight at least.
Gameplay Smasher would probably get rolled faster than a glitchy car in the games launch week.
I hope they bring Frank back at some point, he's soooooo cool and a really well written character. As for who would win, idk I haven't played Cyberpunk yet okay I'm getting to it... T-T
Horrigan has by default a warping 10 in all SPECIAL attributes.
I have seen the comments about Adam Smasher but Frank has a literal 10 in his Luck Stat.
Dude could propably bankrupt the Vegas Strip in one run.
To that we have a 10 in Perception, Endurance and Agility.
His cybernetics may be outdated compared to Cyberpunk but with these stats Frank gets the chance to outreflex and outrun the weaponry and bruise off the major damage.
Especially when the luck comes into play again.
10 on strength, power armored by Enclave high end technology and super mutant biology should allow him to put some reliable dents into the guy.
And with an intelligence stat of 10 he's at least smart enough not to tank into the fight and eat the shells as they come but to boot up his smarts and go tactical.
And his charisma stat of 10?
That's enough to be a towering freak of pre-war tech run rampant and still being charming enough to invite Arthur Maxson for dinner after the show is over.
Not serious of course but I had fun writing it down.
I honestly think Frank can win, it’s about 50/50, Sandevestin is countered by Jet that Frank has pumped into his veins, franks got plasma weapons and lasers that would easily burn through smashers armor. That being said though I’d say it’s whoever hits first, Adam’s missiles would kill Frank and Franks weapons could kill Adam. I think Adams biggest edge is that he has less vital parts than Frank.
Horrigan, no question.
He has much superior strength, is 1.5x larger, weighs almost 3x more, has VATS (Cancelling out Sandevistan by practically stopping time), has a constant combat cocktail being injected into him, equivalent to every chem in Fallout on steroids, his weaponry is more powerful, he has better durability, powered by a Fission Core, and is just generally better in every way, save for speed, which he can match due to being injected constantly with Ultra Turbo and VATS.
Adam Smasher, while powerful, would not win, Horrigan just has a better targeting system with VATS, and a single shot from his Plasma Cannon would blow a hole right through Smasher.
Keep in mind, Horrigan pops Mini Nukes like Pez, and could one tap a Deathclaw, gibbing it instantly. As well as this, it was stated that he would survive the Oil Rig explosion, even being cut in half, by the Devs, they merely had to kill him for the sake of the story.
With a body of 19 Adam can lift 1500lbs with one hand, and his armour is the equilivent of 8-9ft of solid steel and his basic rockets would *literally* over penetrate a modern Abrams tank
I like to think when smasher uses the san, it turns into the one jojo scene where jotaro get zaworldo'd but starts moving anyway. Franks armour which is partially made to pump chemicals into him just turns on all the psychojet pumps.
I eould say frank wins in real close combat, but even with his op plasma weapon probs still loses at med to long.
To be honest, I don't know, but Frank has some good feats, such as:
Taking absolutely no damage from a Plasma Caster from point-blank range. Plasma weapons in Fallout are pretty busted.
One-punching a fully grown Deathclaw and super mutants.
Being the strongest super mutant ever (statement) which includes Super Mutant Behemoths.
Is literally a mini-behemoth in terms of size and power, and easily rivals one in terms of strength via statements, and beats one via statements and feats.
Has such good endurance that even when he was literally cut in half from the waist, he still moved with his hands and talked shit to you before imploding.
Has built-in cybernetic enhancements that constantly give him drugs to keep him alive and boost him, while also wearing the most advanced power armor in Fallout (behind the X-02). Power Armors in Fallout are extremely durable, with bullets not even leaving a single dent in one as shown in the Fallout Show.
I believe Frank's armor is just straight up the most advanced the Enclave has ever produced, simply because it was a 1-off suit that they wanted to slap onto their most absolute off units. I think Mk 2 and Mk 3 aren't as protective as Frank's unique suit.
with the tech in cyberpunk I think Adam smasher has the edge here. But it's not going to be a one sided fight here, it can go both ways. Frank can take alot of punishment and will put up a really good fight.
It would be close, Horrigan is similar to Smasher, they’re both manmade freaks of nature, I think Smasher would win, but that doesn’t mean Horrigan wouldn’t put up one hell of a fight
I'd say it depends on the battlefield. they're about even in terms of lethality. I'd Say Adam Smasher does have more experience than Frank Horrigan being like 80 or something but still.
Can Smasher use quickhacks like short circuit, synapse burnout, reboot optics, etc?
Cuz if those worked, it wouldn't even matter what weapons either had..
Frank Horrigan is a BEAST in close combat. Like an absolute monster. He ripped a deathclaw into pieces with his bare hands. But Smasher has superior cyberwear with the Sandevistan and the on board weaponry (a freaking rocket launcher). So Smasher would have the upper hand as long as he stays in a safe distance.
And Smasher rips a tank-like exoskeleton with his bare hands too, so…
Ņ̵̙̲̾̽O̵̭͛́Ṉ̵̮̤̀̀̈È̵̲͌͠ ̸̖͍̋ ̶̹̤͆ L̸̟̘̼͊͊͝È̸̪̋A̸͌͜V̵͙̪̌̈́̄E̶͓̘̪̓ ̴̧̼̠̉̾ ̸͚̤̄̔ Ṯ̵̼͑H̴̡͇̳͐̄̀É̶̠̭͒ ̵̣̍̍̋S̴̮͊́͝L̶̯͙̿͠Ã̸̠͠Ȕ̷̧̹͋̾ͅǦ̴̹̟̬͋H̵̬̘̫͒̓́T̶̹͉̎È̶̲͔Ŗ̸̨̝͑̎H̴̜̥͙̎͑Ö̴̞͔͚́U̴̥̣̙͑̓̚S̵̰̑̃͝E̷̜̣͈̾̿
**NOT ALIVE**
SURVIVAL FAVOURS THE STRONG
𝙔𝙤𝙪 𝙩𝙝𝙞𝙣𝙠 𝙮𝙤𝙪'𝙧𝙚 𝙨𝙥𝙚𝙘𝙞𝙖𝙡, 𝙟𝙪𝙨𝙩 𝙗𝙚𝙘𝙖𝙪𝙨𝙚 𝙮𝙤𝙪'𝙧𝙚 𝙨𝙘𝙧𝙖𝙥𝙥𝙮? 𝘿𝙤𝙣'𝙩 𝙢𝙖𝙠𝙚 𝙢𝙚 𝙡𝙖𝙪𝙜𝙝
“You look like a cut of fuckable meat.”
"...Are you?"
"who the FUCK are you?"
**'YOU CAN'T EVEN STAND WITHOUT THOSE...ANTI-GRAV CRUTCHES!'**
Yeah, fair point.
Sandevistan you say? *takes 400 doses of jet*
Yeah it would take that amount, or some kind of super jet to affect someone of Frank's size.
I'm pretty sure Frank's already on a constant cocktail of the strongest Combat Drugs, as his FEV mutation wasn't exactly stable. Kinda like Bane with his Venom. I think that's why he explodes when you beat him.
Blowing himself up upon death to try and take whomever killed him with him sounds like something Horrigan would do, from what little I know of him.
The oil rig was already set to explode. But when you bifurcate him he talks shit to you for a while then his head just kinda pops like the guy from scanners. https://tenor.com/es/view/frank-horrigan-enclave-fallout-gif-5405541757514269539
Paychojet cocktail maybe?
Psychojet mixed with superjet would do the trick probably, but he'd still be in 0.5 speed against sande
What people aren’t saying is that jet makes you EXPEREINCE time as if it were slowed The sande lets you move around as if you were at normal speed WHILE TIME IS SLOWED. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy different
>The sande lets you move around as if you were at normal speed WHILE TIME IS SLOWED. That's not actually how a Sandevistan works – it increases the user's reflexes and shortens reaction time. The super-speed effect in game is a gameplay conceit to make the inclusion of a Sandevistan viable since you can't improve the player's reaction time in the real world.
Kind of… in the edge runners series it seems that it also lets you move a lot faster that you should be able too. Not quite superhuman levels but I *think* it’s mentioned at some point that prolonged use does cause excessive stress on the body
It could also be that the sandevistan of the 2070s is very different than that of the 2020s. They talk about it as if it's cutting-edge military grade tech, so it doesn't make any sense for it to be the same as the one from 40 years before. Especially since it's worth pointing out cyberware has essentially completely changed from then, 2020's sandie was a chip you slotted into a box in your lower back, a neuroprocessor, which was basically the motherboard for any and all other cyberware
Yeah, in the show the sandevistan of 2076 was a whole ass spinal cord attachment thing, which may bump up the actual speed/reflexes alot more than a chip would alone. The live speed of David blasting the big dude looked insanely fast, almost teleportation
True enough, it’s possibly a completely different system at that point.
For large sizes it take bigger doses not stronger potency. However for his mutant status it would require something with an extra kick. Ultra-jet should do the trick, as would as a nice mixture of psychobuff, which he probably already lives on.
He'd need an entire brahmin instead of a little inhaler
Psycho Jet+Turbo Implant= a whole lotta asswhooping
Slasher, psycho, med-X, Mentats, ultra jet, rushing water, rebound, steady, and turbo. And you’re ready to FUCKIN ROCK. Just a walking WMD
I like the idea that Frank uses the X-02 autoinjector so it's just going straight into his veins lmao
Horrigan has some decent long-range firepower with his End Boss Plasma Gun.
Plus don’t forget gameplay, a lot of limitations existed when fallout 2 came out so if you’ll allow it in your head cannon… frank has access to ALL enclave level weaponry… I wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole, Mf would pop out with a fat man with a mirv attachment or the tesla cannon!
Don't forget that smasher in the tabletop does not have stats. He is the physical embodiment of "this run is over" Frank, on the other hand, has stats. He is meant to be defeated. Of course, by turning the automated defense system on him and bringing a small army, you can win. Other than in the game, smasher has always been depicted as an undefeatable monster that will tear through literally anything and everything to kill you. The only reason you actually beat him in the game is because V is like the ultimate solo who, while slowly dying, just goes balls out. V has nothing to lose and everything to gain. They will die if they do nothing. So why would facing death incarnate be a problem when they are trying to overcome much worse. Otherwise, every other person, be it in tabletop or in the edgerunners anime, meets there end at smashers hand. Even if they had big protagonist energy, they still lost.
Not to mention that at least in V's dialogue, that beating Smasher was an absurdly miraculous feat that V barely pulled off.
\*Has flashbacks of myriads videos on smashing Adam Smasher to death with dildos\*
I don't know about Cyberpunk Red, but in a supplement book for Cyberpunk 2020 (Operation Firestorm vii) Adam does have stats. In 2020 there is a stat cap of 10, you can increase certain attributes with cybernetics and Smasher sure does take advantage of this. Using a full body conversion, Adam has a 15 in reflexes (which the stat would be equivalent to agility in classic fallout since it is also the god stat) and a body stat (kind of like strength and constitution) of 28 and a movement allowance of 20( can move 60 metres in a turn, around 3 seconds!) This is just his regular Sampson FBC, a model used in construction if memory serves me right. In 2023-ish Smasher has access to a Dragoon FBC (in 2077 he's sort of got one) and a DaiOni, which is nuts because it's a powered armour full body conversion. Personally, I think that 2023 Smasher in the Sampson would get a good beating in on Frank, then the plasma weapons of the Enclave would change that. If Smasher is in the Dragoon it will be a fair fight. In the DaiOni though, the odds are more in Smasher's favour. But the insane speed of 2077 sandevistans will easily outperform Frank's brute strength. No doubts.
Yeah I just don’t think 2077 can lose here. People are talking about a Fat Man and such, but he could legitimately catch it out of the air and throw it back. Time more or less stops when a Sandevistan is employed, compared to Jet which just slows it down
>The only reason you actually beat him in the game is because V is like the ultimate solo who, while slowly dying, just goes balls out. The only reason V win is because he/she have also Johnny on the chip wich help V holding that much chrome otherwise V would have became cyberpsycho a long time ago and also not have what it takes to defeat smasher.
The devs came out and said that the one plans only reason that frank was able to be defeated is so that you can actually finish the game
Well Frank is essentially the same thing the creators of fallout 2 have already said Frank had to die to further the plot if not he wouldn’t be defeated otherwise.
Yeah but they built frank for the game. He doesn't come from a tabletop game where he was a game ender for many, many years, only to finally be defeated by a homeless man with a gun. Unlike smasher who was beaten to death by a guy who rents an apartment and owns his own cars
If there was a fallout tabletop game Frank would be Smasher
Beating him in don’t fear the reaper is perfect. Johnny is already dead, V is a corpse walking by that stage, the whole point of attacking Arasaka was to go out in style while not dragging anyone else with them. Dying is a certainty at that point, what does V have to fear from dying to a legend like Smasher? The fact that they actually win somehow wasn’t even a possibility to V until it happened.
Hmm, that is some head cannon. V doesn't know if smasher will be there and smasher's entrance is a surprise to V.
I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not saying V was going there to be killed by Smasher, I’m saying he went there expecting to be killed by Arasaka security. Neither Johnny nor V actually expected the plan to work, Johnny straight up says it’s a suicide run and V says they’d rather fall into their grave gun in hand and on fire not dragging anyone down with them.
Smashers armor can withstand a few dozen hits from a railgun that can penetrate multiple feet of solid steel. Cyberpunk power scaling is crazy. Tbh your average mid level cyberpunk good with flak armor and a gun would probably ratio frank because the little baby hand guns in cyberpunk can penetrate 2-5 inches of steel. (Source I've been a cyberpunk ttrpg GM for years lmao)
Watching smasher move in the anime I feel like he has the same if not really close strength. Sanddevistan just makes him untouchable in the fight.
Smasher has this whole reputation and in Edgerunners we see the threat he is but his fight in Cyberpunk 2077 is so shit, they couldn’t transcribe the legend Adam Smasher is. But Frank Horrigan? Oh man now that’s a threat, FO2 helps the chosen one a lot but that end battle is a tough one.
Also isn't using ancient tech that's been eroded with time!
Yeah the toss up here really is ranged vs. Melee. If we be a little generous and take away the sandevistan (because it’s a little OP even in the cyberpunk universe) then it would be a little more even but Frank can take *several* rockets to the face in the FO2 fight, I feel like environment would be the deciding factor here lol. That is if we’re deciding based on gameplay in each respective game. Not to mention since Frank is a mutant I believe he would have some regenerative abilities… although not in gameplay iirc
Adam Smasher has Sandevistan and can spam it. Frank is awesome, but he couldn't do much against that.
[удалено]
Jet is probably on par with a low end sandevistan, but it would not even be comparable to the high end models. Edit: some sandy’s slow down time by 85% and with the right high end cybernetics a person can move at normal speed during that, meaning you can run like 50+ mph. The same logic applies for throwing a punch, so image being hit by a giant robot throwing a punch going above 200mph.
Not to mention Sandevistan is just one of the many many ‘enhancements’ that Adam Smasher has. The technology at Horrigan’s disposal is not even in the same league. So Smasher would turn Horrigan into a cut of fuckable meat, in other words.
Too bad Smasher can’t fuck a god damn thing
Actually he can lmao, while not shown in the game, Adam has a Gemini body (which is an artificial body) which he used to go clubbing, which looked like a young, blonde Elvis Presley.
Didn’t know that
Pondsmith himself stated as much [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/tgta72/the_last_50_years_have_been_wild_for_michiko_but/i163le3/) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/rnl808/can_v_get_the_adam_smasher_treatment/hpuat9c/)
Not with that attitude.
A rudimentary implant
The best Sandy in CP2077 I think slows down time by 85% for 30 seconds. I’ve seen online this one is comparable to David’s from the Edgerunner show. Smasher calls his rudimentary. I’m guessing Smashers at a bare minimum slows down time by 85% if not more, and has a longer time of effect, and does not appear to have a significant cooldown either.
Tbh i thought that Smasher meant "rudimentary" in the sense that a sandevistan is just "baby's first military grade implant". the one david uses in the show is by no means rudimentary as he uses a Militech Apogee which is the best one available in the game and is the only one that can get close to matching adam smashers speed, his is a little faster i believe
Yeah. We're debating whether Horrigan even has a shot against the sandevistan, but Smasher considers it one of the least impressive options in his arsenal. Horrigan has no chance.
No way. We see Smasher up against someone with a high level Sandy (David) and Smasher just runs rings around him. Also normal Jet wouldn't work on Horrigan, he'd need Super Jet, and we've only seen that produced in one place (Capital Wasteland).
so to make it a fair fight, it needs to be a cyberware-d up Adam Smasher vs. a Frank Horrigan full on every type of chem out there.. sounds like a, somewhat, fair fight to me. 10x jet 10x psychobuff 10x mentats....
You forget he has turbo constantly flowing through his body
Horrigan is a fucking monster. But Smasher is Adam fucking Smasher man. The tech of CyberPunk2077 automatically gives him an edge. He is the GOAT of the Cyberpunk universe >!until V surpasses him. But V is also a monster. Pre 2.0 V especially.!<
V >!is a revenant, revived by actual in-world techno-necromancy, and has literally no humanity stat, indicating V is not technically human and likely does not have (if such a thing exists) a soul anymore. V died at the beginning. Dead Dead. Hardware set to OFF, turned back on, and the software is actively being overwritten. V is a bigger monster than smasher because Smasher still actually has a (tiny) humanity stat and is limited by certain parameters. V has no such limits as an undead.!<
Man I fucking love the questions cyberpunk leaves open about >!human souls, if they exist, and if a computer program can flawlessly imitate a human, feel emotion, etc, does that make it human? Our brains are just meat computers running on electrical pulses. If a computer can get as complex? What’s the difference? Is there a soul?!<
When talking to Alt about getting V to Mikoshi, Johnny says "V just slots back in her body right? Nothing changes?" Alt says "Everything changes" Took me a couple playthroughs to process what that implies
It's all about that coinflip man
Same. Its quickly become my go to fictional quandary I chew on in my head. Does V have a >!soul!!being alive!<
I mean one could say that our brains are just computers. All our emotions can be tracked in brain activity, and our reactions are due to stimulation causing a response from our brains. If a computer can do that? What’s the difference? Just devils advocate, not taking a side.
The big difference is what “you” recognize IMO. To everyone else it will be basically indistinguishable but “you” don’t get to experience anything else Basically what exists now will have experienced everything you have experienced, but you will experience none of what it will
Indeed. What is the difference. That is the question
This is such a cool concept that CP2077 really nailed with the Chip, and that FO4 absolutely dropped with the Synths.
Fallout 3's Replicated Man quest handled the morality of the Synths better and they were just hunters from the Institute looking for an escaped Synth being aided by the DC branch of the Railroad.
I hadn't even considered This angle for V as a character I absolutely love it.
V Is basically the courier
🤯
That is a great take, love it
Why do you think pre 2.0 V is stronger?
Cyberware was really nerfed but dashing is op as fuck now so it's a trade off. Smasher also got "buffed" in 2.0 and PL. plus npc enemies have much better combat AI now
My V from v1.0 - v1.5 had nearly 900HP and a revolver that did 200,000 headshot damage with over 2,000 armor. My same V from v2.12 has 653HP, the perks for the 200,000 damage revolver were removed and 1029 armor. I also used to regenerate health in-combat faster than most enemies could damage me but now it's something like >10% per second.
One of my 2.0 Vs is an absolute monster. Has all the mitigation-ware and the militech apogee. Throwing knives putting out thousands of damage into headshots like they're candy. Overheating into massive EMP pulses and in a state of constant psychosis due to exceeding cyber capacity to the max. Screen turns red, time slows, all you hear is maniacal laughing as a seemingly infinite supply of knives , axes, and anti personnel laser grid 'nades flow through the air, necks are broken from behind, air dashing into teleportation finishes twisting knives before just poof they're 50 yards away pulling a tomahawk out of the skull of some poor ganger, they get back on their bike that jumped off that has been slowly traveling through the battlefield since time has been at 15% the entire time before doing a wheely jump into the sunset back onto the highway. Makes anything my 1.0 characters could do look stupid. [Flawless Assassination : r/cyberpunkgame (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/16rvyjd/flawless_assassination/) [Destroy them with lasers! : r/cyberpunkgame (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/16x41kt/destroy_them_with_lasers/) [Speedy Delivery Service : r/cyberpunkgame (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/16vehz2/speedy_delivery_service/)
2.0 introduced drawbacks to too much cyberware iirc plus better balancing. Granted I haven’t gone and done a side by side comparison of the new perks and chip skill trees compared to my older builds.
It also massively changed up the Perks.
Well there is a more GOATed GOAT, being Morgan Blackhand, but yeah in night city in 2077, it’s V smasher and oda in the heavy weight leagues.
You're not comprehending the power difference between cyberpunk and fallout. The basic armor in cyberpunk can tank hits from railguns that peirce feet of solid steel. The basic handgun can peirce inches of steel. The tech doesn't give him an edge. The tech makes Frank a joke. Adam smasher has a body of 19, meaning he can *easily* lift 1700 lbs above his head, and he can carry 10x that. He could pick up and throw frank like he was a 3yo child. Genuinely, the longest part of their fight would be smasher being sad about how easy it was
Smasher: *"Don't care how big and ugly you are, meat's still meat!"*
So upon further reflection i should've made this more interesting lmao thats my bad
Nah I think it's interesting, I think most people agree smasher is stronger but it's a neat comparison. Pondsmith just made smasher canonically a goddamned monster war machine and Horrigan is a similar character
Yeah, they occupy the same role, the power levels on the universes itself are very diferent. A monster in CP lore just wallops a Fallout one. The similaries are only on the surface. When one can outrun whatever you fire at him, it isn't a fair fight.
Yeah CP universe has some crazy tech. Lmao power armor looks downright medieval next to sandevistans and combat implants
Exactly. If Adam cannons shoots clean through heavily armored vehicles in CP lore, Power armor might as well be paper. Mike P. clearly thought "How do I make a Terminator but better?"
Yeah this. Power Armor isn’t even as good as tank armor, it’s advantages mainly come from the ability to turn a crew served or vehicle mounted weapon into a light infantry weapon one man can use. It’s obviously better armor than normal but from the way it seems, it’s not more durable than actual heavy tanks, since it’s not designed to occupy that role.
This is another issue of scale. Horrigan is cool and all, but aren't 20mm autocannons considered a standard infantry armament in cyberpunk?
Aren’t small arms lasers that disintegrate robots a standard infantry sidearm in fallout?
missiles/rockets are instead, and cyberwarfare is half the battle
Nah, they just have tech that makes 9mm hit like 20mm. The standard issue guns are closer to modern 50bmg. Smashers' little dinky shoulder misses can penetrate 1700 mm of solid steel before they start to have reduced effectiveness lmafo
Lmao this ain't even close, smasher has sandevistan and rocket launchers
He also has an 8 barrelled explosive automatic shotgun that tears things to shreds He doesn't use it in the game boss fight though
Yeah you can get it in game though, even cooler is that they are homing bullets bc it's a smart gun
Cyberpunk tech alone gives Adam too many advantages over Frank.
Hydrogen bomb vs multiple hydrogen bombs
They would have sex
Frank does look like a cut of fuckable meat
Yeah I get the feeling they’re both the type of people for whom violence, domination and sex are closely intertwined Any fight between them might very well morph into apocalyptic hate sex after a while
Lore wise, probably Adam Smasher but it’d be close. Gameplay wise Frank smashes Adam Smasher, his fight was a fucking joke compared to Frank Horrigan’s fight
The issue with the lore is that it's hard to determine. Both are incredibly strong and have advanced armor. Frank's is the best form of APA the enclave have ever created, but we aren't quite sure what it can take. On the flip side, we don't know how resistant Smasher would be against nuclear-powered high-energy plasma either. Both can rip armored and/or extremely tough units apart with their bare hands. Both have ridiculously high stats, both are seen in their respective lore as the immortal boogeyman.
Honestly speaking, i vote for Frank Horrigan, not because he's stronger, but because Adam smasher is easier to kill than play Fallout 2 =) (ps i am still stuck in the beginning of Fallout 2. I will try to beat it on my vacation)
Lore battle: Adam Smasher wins In-Game battle: Frank wins They really just made Adam's fight a cakewalk and called it a day
New Adam Smasher on the hardest difficulty is a god damn nightmare. Sandy dodges damn near every shot and he can just randomly appear next to you, then unload his endless supply of missile pods.
The one-shot missile is a little much tbh, in the secret ending, I have to reset every time he one shoots me through the freaking wall.
Lol I’m currently slowly making my way through the game again but took up the hardcore concept. 0 cyberware except for Ping in my cyberdeck and basic Kiroshis. If I die, I have to delete the save. So far so good on my end, but I’m aiming for the secret ending in this. God help me when I go up against Arasaka and Smasher alone.
I was breezing through the game in hardcore with my sandy build, only dying to fall damage by dash jumping to my death. I was also breezing through the Arasaka tower, but that attack killed me more than the whole game. One live with no cyberware against adam sounds like hell. Good luck. What weapon are you using?
This is a valid response
Stab with melee weapon and get 3-4 blocks away. The rad scorpions will use all their AP catching up and won't be able to attack, while being in range of yours.
I think Smasher loses if Horrigan can get a hold of him but the question is whether or not Smasher would ever let him get that close.
Nah sandy makes him too fast. But tbh everyone is forgetting David Martinez. David fought in the exo suit and couldn't even dent smasher
An exo suit that let him manipulate gravity to lift, crush, and smash cars, semi trucks and tanks into a crushed sheet of bloody metal mind you. And when he used it on Smasher? It pisses him off because he couldn't kill the people running away. After which he proceeded to tear that same exoskeleton apart with his metallic bare hands..
I think Martinez could beat Horrigan tbh
Adam “Chael Sonnen” Smasher
Smasher can lift 1500lbs with one hand according to the cyberpunk red crb
Definitely one of the two I would say
Anime Adam Smasher or Game Adam Smasher?
Same guy it's just V is canonically a fucking monster. In the tabletop game both are based on Adam Smasher is basically the GM's 'end the campaign' button. Like the stats are designed to make it so he's impossible to beat.
Appearntly, V is a high functioning cyperpyshco, because of their friend…
Yup, the reason why V can handle that amount of modifications to their organs and limbs is because technically there's two person sharing the psychosis load.
Even worse, cyberpunk red Adam smasher lmao
Horrigan has something that the corpo-traitor Adam doesn't. PATRIOTISM
Frank Horrigan with a Sandevistan would be able to singlehandedly conquer America
I actually love this question, cause it isnt as cut and dry as you might think. Smasher outpowers, outmatches and outguns Horrigan in every single way except one: Absurdity. Cyberpunk is very, very edgy and serious, everything has a price and a clearly defined limit. Fallout, on the other hand, is silly to its very core. Yes, it is dark and fucked up, but silly. Frank Horrigan should have access to all the Enclave weaponry, so he has Plasma and Laser and Fatmans. In Cyberpunk, nuking the Arasaka Tower was a really big deal while in Fallout, portable Nukes are just a part of normal weaponry. It is a little bit like comparing a cartoon character to a novel character. Frank should be absolutely demolished, but he has the edge of that Fallout sillyness.
Adam Smasher, hands down. But Frank wouldn't be an easy kill. Now, if you could get an EMP in there, and it's just down to brute strength and durability, it really is anyone's game.
I think it would be easy. Power levels between the worlds are totally unfair. Adam shots trough armored tanks, can take shots like one, and moves faster than bullets. Frank doesn't ever hit him. His Sandevistan (in lore) is just insanity, totally not market stuff. Look, in the Fallout world Frank is a Demon, a Demon that was killed by some dude. Adam is either alive or he was killed by a high functioning Cyberpsycho with powers that would be magical in the Fallout universe.
Both of them were killed in stupid ways in their games. Adam smasher shouldn’t have died to V in game, especially after seeing his strength in edgerunners, and it was confirmed that the only reason frank horrigan died was to plot armor.
I beat Adam with a vibrator I had to nuke frank.
If frank was set on cyberpunk 2077 you could probably beat himbwith a vibrator too. Just Because V is a monster does not mean smasher is weak. It just means V is strong.
Liberty Prime.
Then again, he hasn't met Frank Horrigan either...
No shit i think this is one of the best "who would wins" i've seen in a while. Smasher is an out-and-out monster with a Sandevistan, he IS close combat. Horrigan though is to super mutants what super mutants are to humans AND has power armor and a plasma gun which on its own would provide a solid counter to Sandy (which isn't a literal time stop y'all) but he could take Jet or Psychojet as well. I mean the guy gets cut in half and gets up on his hands to keep talking shit. Smasher's got his Tsunami but Horrigan's got a plasma rifle that's not statistically much different but better against armor. I honestly think Horrigan beats out Smasher and in talking to my roommates who are huge Fallout and Cyberpunk marks they agree. Either way there's not gonna be much of either left whoever wins. But I mean, when it comes down to it Frank Horrigan is voiced by Michael Dorn and Adam Smasher is not, so.
Depends. Are we talking "game" Adam Smasher or "anime" Adam Smasher? Anime Adam Smasher was a force of nature, but I literally beat in-game Adam Smasher with a vibrator.
Frank. And it's not close. TLDR: Adam's stuff can barely damage Frank, Frank's stuff can melt Adam. Yeah, Sandev is a game-changing advantage but Smasher lacks the firepower or raw strength to capitalize. It'd take his best firepower to deal slight damage to Frank, while Frank will rock Adam's shit with any blow. Melee range would be a death sentence; no matter how fast he is, Adam isn't gonna do much real damage, and Frank's 10 Agility and ludicrous AP suggest to me that he's much faster than he looks, so there is a solid chance he could still land a big hit even during Smasher's Sandev. Smasher's guns are all explosive and ballistic, which is quite sub-optimal for this fight. Frank is not going to feel them as much as someone else would, so they won't afford Smasher the battlefield control he normally wields. Meanwhile, any attack Frank hits is absolutely devastating. Metal can't take a punch like flesh can, when dealing with extreme forces like Frank or Adam's physical strength, and Frank's gun has the potential to melt Adam entirely on the very first shot. Tearing David in half was a *kinda* impressive show of force, but Frank killing a healthy Deathclaw in one casually-delivered punch makes Smasher look almost pedestrian. Cyberpunk is just a more grounded world than Fallout, so lots of the things Frank could deal with very well easily would be a really big deal in Cyberpunk. This is the biggest fight of Adam's life by an exponential margin, while Frank has dealt with monsters and machines that would rampage through Night City(Deathclaws, Sentry bots, Super Mutants). Frank has the experience advantage, here, even if Adam's been making moves for longer. Basically, Smasher is gimmicks, while Horrigan is real raw power. After Adam's encounter with V, we know what happens when Smasher is confronted by someone with capability beyond that afforded by cybernetics. On a meta level, Frank owes his victory to the significantly more outlandish setting he comes from.
Adam Smasher wins unless Frank gets his hands on Adam, in which case, Frank would literally tear Adam's body to pieces.
People seem to forget that fallout takes place in the future and although the majority live like peasants, those with access to it have some impressive firepower Horrigan being something of a machine himself and then clad in that custom power armor, he would melt smasher instantly with his experimental plasma gun - a technology not yet developed in the cyberpunk universe
Frank horrigan is the size of a FO4 behemoth
While smashers has fancy schmany tech. Fallout universe weapons pack much larger punch. Especially Franks cannon, he literally whips it out from his damn arm. Smashers has sande vistan, but Frank is also pumped with a nice coctails of psycho crap. Well, both fuckers are scary.
Frank tore a death claw in half soooooo
While Smasher was shown to a menace in the anime and existed in the 2020 tabletop as someone to be reckoned with, I saw Frank Horrigan long before I knew of Cyberpunk 2077 or 2020 and I will say, Horrigan killed a deathclaw easily with a single punch. Teenage me wants to say Horrigan.
Frank Horrigan. He's twice bigger, much stronger, has stupid resistance to everything, has a goddamn unique Plasma gatling that doesn't even exist in Cyberpunk universe nor has equal in Fallout 2. And a Melee blade the size of Smasher. He's a Behemoth Super Mutant pumped full of drugs that in the Fallout universe are as strong and potent as cybernetics. And ON TOP of that has custom fitted Power Armor grafted on him. Dude has an Exoskeleton over a body that can already throw cars like they were paper ball. Nuclear powered. He's fast, like REAL fast, sure that's no Sandevistan, but we saw again and again that Sandevistan isn't a victory guarantee. And has periods of on/off. Frank is just ALWAYS going fast, strong, and hitting stupidly hard. Not saying that's an easy fight, bit i'm still betting on Frank. Also, there's a real misconception about technology in Fallout and Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk is not "more advanced" they're just different paths. Cyberpunk LOOKS more futuristic and has microprocessor and all lot of technology from it, but Fallout has harnessed Atomic power far better than Cyberpunk. As well as having magical FEV power. And technically close to immortality. Both are set in the same time periods. By the Enclave time and Horrigan they had even a bit more time and the top scientists of the world with absolutely no morals whatsoever.
> Cyberpunk LOOKS more futuristic and has microprocessor and all lot of technology from it, but Fallout has harnessed Atomic power far better than Cyberpunk. Yeah, this is something that people aren't really getting ITT. Sure, Cyberpunk has a lot of fantastical weapons that are extremely powerful in their own right, but I can't think of any weapon from that universe that can ***disintegrate*** people.
Adam Smasher was beaten by a skinny nerd with implants and a ghost in their head
I think Horrigan is physically superior. He's a behemoth in power armor
Ima just go with the fast healing 13 foot tall muti in power armor idc what you say
Your rides over mutie, time to die.
The answer is that they both lose to the chosen one. Edited: cus I mixed up my legendary heros.
These two give me 'frenemies' vibes. Both would respect each other and fuck with one another's vibes.
One Vaulty boi
This is just fallout tech Vs cyberpunk tech at this point
Fallout and cyberpunk are just in two separate universes. One where the culture is 50a and tech socks and fuels is empty, but america is dominant. While, culture, tech and feel advanced. At the cost of america.
Came here to say "Oh well obviously Smasher..." But after reading some of the comments, It's not that cut and dry.
I never thought of it, frank is probably the only kindred soul with Adam. They would absolutely love each others attitudes. I mean, they're still gonna rip each others throats out
Canon Smasher would win most likely, though it would be a good fight. He has speed of course, and lots of firepower, but Frank isn't a slouch and he'll put up a good fight at least. Gameplay Smasher would probably get rolled faster than a glitchy car in the games launch week.
Long as a camera's there to catch it, I say we all win
I hope they bring Frank back at some point, he's soooooo cool and a really well written character. As for who would win, idk I haven't played Cyberpunk yet okay I'm getting to it... T-T
Whenever you do play cyberpunk take your time with it and just soak in the whole world. You'll thank me later
They’re the same picture.
These two would stare each other down, then do the Predator arm shake and go commit a mass genocide together.
your mom
Gottem
Horrigan has by default a warping 10 in all SPECIAL attributes. I have seen the comments about Adam Smasher but Frank has a literal 10 in his Luck Stat. Dude could propably bankrupt the Vegas Strip in one run. To that we have a 10 in Perception, Endurance and Agility. His cybernetics may be outdated compared to Cyberpunk but with these stats Frank gets the chance to outreflex and outrun the weaponry and bruise off the major damage. Especially when the luck comes into play again. 10 on strength, power armored by Enclave high end technology and super mutant biology should allow him to put some reliable dents into the guy. And with an intelligence stat of 10 he's at least smart enough not to tank into the fight and eat the shells as they come but to boot up his smarts and go tactical. And his charisma stat of 10? That's enough to be a towering freak of pre-war tech run rampant and still being charming enough to invite Arthur Maxson for dinner after the show is over. Not serious of course but I had fun writing it down.
Ya lol, ppl are forgetting Horrigan has super senses and everything cranked to 11 (10) from an almost flawless FEV mutation.
That luck stat would have smasher miss a swing and hit himself lmao
I honestly think Frank can win, it’s about 50/50, Sandevestin is countered by Jet that Frank has pumped into his veins, franks got plasma weapons and lasers that would easily burn through smashers armor. That being said though I’d say it’s whoever hits first, Adam’s missiles would kill Frank and Franks weapons could kill Adam. I think Adams biggest edge is that he has less vital parts than Frank.
Horrigan, no question. He has much superior strength, is 1.5x larger, weighs almost 3x more, has VATS (Cancelling out Sandevistan by practically stopping time), has a constant combat cocktail being injected into him, equivalent to every chem in Fallout on steroids, his weaponry is more powerful, he has better durability, powered by a Fission Core, and is just generally better in every way, save for speed, which he can match due to being injected constantly with Ultra Turbo and VATS. Adam Smasher, while powerful, would not win, Horrigan just has a better targeting system with VATS, and a single shot from his Plasma Cannon would blow a hole right through Smasher. Keep in mind, Horrigan pops Mini Nukes like Pez, and could one tap a Deathclaw, gibbing it instantly. As well as this, it was stated that he would survive the Oil Rig explosion, even being cut in half, by the Devs, they merely had to kill him for the sake of the story.
With a body of 19 Adam can lift 1500lbs with one hand, and his armour is the equilivent of 8-9ft of solid steel and his basic rockets would *literally* over penetrate a modern Abrams tank
"You look like a fuckable slab of meat, mutie"
I've spent months wondering this myself
I feel like its a balanced fight that the first one to slip loses.
If Frank lets a hold of Adam, Frank wins. If he doesn’t then Adam wins.
I like to think when smasher uses the san, it turns into the one jojo scene where jotaro get zaworldo'd but starts moving anyway. Franks armour which is partially made to pump chemicals into him just turns on all the psychojet pumps. I eould say frank wins in real close combat, but even with his op plasma weapon probs still loses at med to long.
Shit this one’s actually tough
Let's have Frank spam Jet and Adam spam Sandevistan, see who dies first
Man, an all out war between Millitech and the Enclave would be interesting.
Smasher. But this would be an epic battle and leave Smasher seriously injured. Horrigan is a UNIT.
To be honest, I don't know, but Frank has some good feats, such as: Taking absolutely no damage from a Plasma Caster from point-blank range. Plasma weapons in Fallout are pretty busted. One-punching a fully grown Deathclaw and super mutants. Being the strongest super mutant ever (statement) which includes Super Mutant Behemoths. Is literally a mini-behemoth in terms of size and power, and easily rivals one in terms of strength via statements, and beats one via statements and feats. Has such good endurance that even when he was literally cut in half from the waist, he still moved with his hands and talked shit to you before imploding. Has built-in cybernetic enhancements that constantly give him drugs to keep him alive and boost him, while also wearing the most advanced power armor in Fallout (behind the X-02). Power Armors in Fallout are extremely durable, with bullets not even leaving a single dent in one as shown in the Fallout Show.
I believe Frank's armor is just straight up the most advanced the Enclave has ever produced, simply because it was a 1-off suit that they wanted to slap onto their most absolute off units. I think Mk 2 and Mk 3 aren't as protective as Frank's unique suit.
NOW THIS IS A FIGHT
with the tech in cyberpunk I think Adam smasher has the edge here. But it's not going to be a one sided fight here, it can go both ways. Frank can take alot of punishment and will put up a really good fight.
It would be close, Horrigan is similar to Smasher, they’re both manmade freaks of nature, I think Smasher would win, but that doesn’t mean Horrigan wouldn’t put up one hell of a fight
Still a better spite match than Sundowner vs Smasher
Whichever one has the most friends?
Nah, I'd win
I'd say it depends on the battlefield. they're about even in terms of lethality. I'd Say Adam Smasher does have more experience than Frank Horrigan being like 80 or something but still.
Frank: Ride's over, mutie. Time to die. Smasher: INTERESTING! I say it's a tie and they go for a round of beers.
Can Smasher use quickhacks like short circuit, synapse burnout, reboot optics, etc? Cuz if those worked, it wouldn't even matter what weapons either had..
I didn't realize Frank was such a fan of being turned inside out
"Your rides over Mutie....time to die".....(that might be the most bad ass & most terrifying voice line I've heard in a while!)
This is actually a really close call