That's about what I end up spending if you cut out splurges and rent. Rent is more than $36k a year with so cal prices.
If you want to reduce your bills, the FIRE communities can be helpful. However, its a lot of DIY and thrifting in those communities...and not everyone likes spending their weekend that way. And it's really ok for people to like different things.
She should be paying child support to you. You may not need that money but it’s not your money to turn down. It may be the only real support the child ever gets from her and, no offense, it doesn’t look like you’ll be able to offer much either.
I’m in Bakersfield and my costs are as low as I can make them. But a water polo suit for my daughter was $85 in 2011. It’d be nice if your kid had a license and insurance. Can you afford that extra cost? That’s what a fund like that is for.
THIS. Get a good attorney, make sure the kids are with you the full 50% and do not badmouth the ex.
In my husband's case (I'm the stepmom) it was amazing how she managed to turn one head, then another, until she had all the kids convinced they were better off with her. It rocked his world and added a financial sting that made it tough for him to ever be the "fun parent."
It can happen right under your nose.
My son and his wife divorced here in Arizona. Agreed to no child support, split other expenses equally. She made more than he did, so she would have to pay and she couldn't afford it either. Rach state has different rules.
How is the possible?. A child support worksheet is mandatory by law. Child support is not an optional process in divorces. Do you mean they found you both made similar income and it's a wash?
But you are correct if she has more income she will have to pay you support. Although if it's always been this way and you should already be receiving support. I am highly suss of this post.
Can't speak for CA but in my state, any agreement in relation to children must be approved by a judge. Usually, there should be some sort of equitable exchange (ex. You keep the house and all equity in it in lieu of child support because to by me out you will need second mortgage and your monthly payment will be higher than a child support payment)
My guess is their agreement was approved because otherwise woman would have to pay child support to a man and that's still frowned upon in many jurisdictions
The most you can do is agree to a lesser amount but not to no amount. I call b******* on this post. my guess is he is already receiving child support and she wants to lower it. But he doesn't want to admit that he's receiving child support.
https://www.moshtaellaw.com/child-support/waiver-of-child-support/
Under California law, when a minor child is involved in a divorce, neither parent can legally waive their child support obligations. Section 4001 of the California Family Code says that the court can order one or both parents to pay for child support in case of a minor child. The child’s right to receive support from parents is inherent in the law, and parents cannot waive it.
It's NOT bullshit, I have full physical and legal custody of both of our children and she pays no CS, because she claims she can't afford it. Also note that she refused to provide any of the required / requested financial documentation.
The judge even called me a petty person for requesting CS.
>The child’s right to receive support from parents is inherent in the law, and parents cannot waive it.
The child is getting support from both parents because there is 50/50 custody. Child support payments to the other parent is not the only way a child is supported.
If one apparently makes $36,000 and the other makes 100,000 it's the Court's duty to make sure the child has the same status of living in both homes. I still stand by my claim that this is a suspicious post
There was a case like this in the paternity court— the dad was awarded child support from mom— maybe this OP saw the show and wants to see what Reddit says..
So, who will force the parents to pay child support if both parents agreed to no child support payments between them and no one disputes the the said agreement?
I'm just speaking from experience of my own divorce . They have a mandatory form and you have no option other than to pay more then the calculations say. Of course if one party never collects that's whatever but that's not what happened. OP has a 44k difference in pay...no way the court would sign off on that seeing as it would be a massive detriment to the child. OP is leaving out some facts for sure.
Notice that it says the court *can* order child support. That also means the court can *not* order child support if they don't feel that it's warranted. They can find other ways to make sure both parents are equally supporting the kids. Maybe mom has to pay for health insurance or tuition or extracurriculars or something, rather than paying child support. Maybe dad is the only one allowed to claim the kids on his taxes and recoups some money that way instead. If they are both contributing equally, the court wouldn't order child support.
Now that I think about it, an agreement like this is probably why the mom feels like op should be paying child support. She's probably having to foot the bill for most of the kids' upbringing, and she sees it as unfair because she's not taking their differing incomes into consideration. She thinks she deserves child support because she's spending so much on the kids, but the reality is that if she weren't spending all that money on the kids, she would have to be paying it to op as child support.
When I divorced in CA roughly a decade ago, we had a no CS/spousal support agreement in the decree. Judge signed off on it without a single question.
Now if it would actually hold up against a child support order opened by either party after the divorce, I have no idea.
.....
not even when custody of the child is split 50/50, and therefore both parents are providing clothing and food, *and* any extra expenses are split 50/50 as well, *and* both parents have agreed it's not necessary??
It's not like either is exactly an uninvolved parent here
I had an uncontested divorce in CA with 50/50 custody and we have no child support schedule or payments in our divorce decree. It literally says "as agreed upon by both parties" under that section of our divorce agreement. Been divorced 6 years, never an issue.
I divorced 2003 in California. We never had any type of financial settlement in out divorce. Just custody orders and the divorce judgement.
I knew any CS order would be paid by his retired parents and I wasn't about to crimp their retirement. They didn't decide to have a baby, we did. So I never pursued CS. His mom paid $200 a month for 10+ years until he stepped up with his own $200. I got the last CS the night before his mom passed.
They don’t care about debt or assets (unless you have a trust fund or something). If they counted that, people would run up debt to manipulate the system.
>She makes 100k a year ( I know this because she has me do her taxes every year ) I make 36k.
Here's the calculator you're looking for:
https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/
Let her take you to court. She will have to give you support if you only make 36 and she makes 100 and you guys have 50/50.
Debt and housing have nothing to do with it.
Please do this. She's being petty, teach her a 18 (minus kid's current age) compounded lesson. And make sure you put 90% of it away, the other 10% use to do cool things with your kid they will remember for the rest of their life.
My brother's ex-wife tried this. It was 50/50 custody and my brother's health insurance. The ex took him to court because she remarried, got pregnant, and "her expenses have gone up". The judge looked at the two incomes and asked if she really wanted to do this as it was really clear she should be paying him.
The judge had to spell it out her...both how the difference in incomes meant she should have been paying him all along AND how her having a kid with another guy does nothing to impact child support for the child with her ex husband. Reluctantly, she backed down. She has a Masters, was a VP where she worked, and a clear case of how people can be educated beyond their IQ.
Beyond any custody dispute, having property in an irrevocable trust prevents it from being part of your personal assets.
Removes ability to contest it as property in a will, as well as any issues with probate.
Let's state down the will, finances change and you have to file bankruptcy, the house is outside of your personal assets and can't be considered in a bankruptcy hearing if set up correctly.
If remarrying down the line for OP, isn't marital property if divorcing in the future.
Go see a lawyer and If it is advantageous for you file for support. I think child support is absurd when both parent have custody but if she’s threatened to do it, she’s earned the consequences of being greedy. Put the money away for your kid.
If you are in Canada there are Federal tables that the judge will follow. I had 50/50 joint custody. I had to pay her half the child support she would have received if I never had the kids. You would think she would then have to pay me half. Nope. The only dough I saved was that I didn’t pay her for the time I had the kids. I’m not complaining because that was the judgement handed down.
I even double checked, just to be certain I remembered correctly. I don't see California. I see CA. Which can be California. It also can be Canada.
There is a failure to read here, but it doesn't seem like it's Canada's fault.
Normally it's offset child support. You technically pay each other child support with only the difference being remitted.
So if I oversimplified and assumed CS was 10% of income.
She owes 10k (10% of 100k) annually
You owe 3.6k (10% of 36k) annually
One a net basis she would remit $6,400 annually or approx $540/month.
So she should go ahead and file for CS to lock in your amounts
Hahaha let her file. When she ends up with a child support payment on top of her debt, she’ll know she f**ked up.
My ex insisted I file for child support because “The courts haven’t ordered me to give you a dime.” (He only wanted 3 weekends a month.) I said ok. Have it your way. He regrets that decision every day of his life since I got the order.
So ask yourself this if you made more than her, would she file on you... everyone knows the answer is yes... So... why haven't you filled it in on her? Is it because it's not what men do or some other sexist bullshit that is used ad nauseam to stop men from using things they are entitled to?
Yeah honestly it’s a mixture of shame and bullying by her brother and father who both pay child support to their exes so they think I should as well even though the situations are totally different. I am sheepish about the idea of filling for it because of the stigma I’d receive, both real and perceived. I think you guys have convinced me though because a 100 percent if the roles were reversed she’d file on me.
You def should file. Or goad her into filing and let the chips fall where they land, lol. But yes, if they were reversed, and you know she wouldn’t hesitate—neither should you. It’s really for the best interest of your kiddo. 🖤
You definitely should. Especially if she’s just blowing through the money that could go towards bettering your child’s standard of living, saving for their education, etc.,. It’s not even about you OR her - in this case, you truly would be doing what’s best for your child.
Why do you give a shit what your ex wife’s family thinks? You shouldn’t. You’re her ex so they’re not going to like you anyway so don’t worry about it.
The California child support calculator is free online and you can see.
California considers many factors that other states do not, so it's impossible to know without more information.
Oh, please let her. She's in for a very rude and expensive awakening. If she thought she was in debt before, let her try child support. And if she doesn't pay that, there are some very serious consequences. CS doesn't go away.
Just don’t engage with her anymore on the topic. Let her know that you are more than fine with her filing but you don’t think it’s going to turn out how she wants and then put an end to other attempts to start the conversation again. Let her know “we have talked about this and I told you that I’m fine with you filing”. Don’t engage in the conversation any further than this because if she’s been bringing it up this often and not doing anything, then she’s likely just trying to get a reaction. If she does then she will pay the fees and lose, if she doesn’t then nothing changes and she will eventually realize that she should stop bringing it up because she’s not getting the reaction she wants from the conversation. If she knows she wouldn’t get it and that’s the reason why she just keeps bringing it up to guilt trip you without pursuing it, then she also can’t try and say later that you took her for child support when you didn’t need it. Just put a stop to the conversation and leave it up to her whether she’s going to pursue it or not so it can’t be blamed on you later.
No you’re 100 percent correct. She has a negative net worth. Each pay raise and promotion she gets she digs herself deeper with extended access to credit.
Let her file, you’ll probably end up with her paying you if you’re 50/50 and she makes 3x as much money as you do. You warned her, not your fault if she fucks around and finds out. If I were you though, I’d sock any support she does send you into a savings account though. Because it sounds like she’ll be coming back to you asking for extra assistance with bills for the kids, and they shouldn’t suffer because their mom is terrible with money.
I don’t disagree. I do my best to help her extra when I can. But my kids don’t suffer from a lack of stuff. Their mom loves to buy them stuff because she loves shopping. Does a 7 year old need a pair of Jordan’s? I don’t think so but she buys em anyways and I buy him a cheap pair from Walmart for at my house.
That’s my understanding and I’ve tried to explain that to her but she’s got it in her head that since she’s a woman she’d automatically get awarded. I tried to explain that family courts don’t operate that way anymore but it’s like talking to a brick wall. That I’ve got reassurance I think the next time she brings it up I’m going to encourage her to file and get what’s coming to her. I’m tired of trying to protect my ex from the consequences of her actions.
Child support is a matter of math and nothing more. It's (your net income)+(her net income) ='s X per week. (X per week) is compared to the child support table and it produces the support amount as Figure Y. Then Figure Y is pro rated by parenting time and the percentage of income each parent contributes to the (X per week) figure.... and that's it. So if she's making 3 X's what you make, she'll be paying you.... I would assume she'll speak with an attorney before filing and he/she should explain it all to her. There's no sinister plan by the Gov't to rob anyone...the CS tables are part of the statutes and apply equally to everyone unless the (X per week) figure exceeds the highest amount listed on the tables...in that case (you've got to be millionaires for this to apply), the Court simply applies a best interests standard and crafts some amount of of thin air based on incomes
The courts would order she pay you , but with that , she will be allowed to claim them on her tax return every year that she pays. Currently you two have the right to split it or split tax years.
Who pays child support has nothing to do with who gets to claim them.
IRS rules state that the parent who host the majority of overnights (there’s an odd number of days in the year, so it’s rare that the number of overnights is equal) gets to claim them. If for some other reason the number of overnights is equal (for example a leap year), then the parent with the higher AGI gets to claim them.
None of which matters if there is a written custody agreement/order stating who gets to claim them.
I’ve seen some divorce decrees dictating who claims them, like one parent in even years, the other in odd, or if multiple children, the parents split and claim every year for their assigned kiddos.
They'd both have to claim the support tho, right?
Assuming so, it could affect OPs tax obligation so it may be in his best interest to consider that as well, before encouraging her to shoot herself in the foot?
Child support isn't taxable income.
It's their share of the child's expenses.
And yes, it appears on both returns.
You claim the kids if they lived with you for the majority of the year, unless you have an agreement otherwise. (Some parents alternate, some split the difference and each take one, some let the higher earner claim them since they get more out of it, and they are kind with the surplus.)
Child support isn’t a claimed item like Alimony used to be.
Child support remains as taxable income by the person who’s income it comes from. Child support has never affected the taxable income of the payer or payee.
Alimony on the other hand used to be a deduction for the payer and had to be claimed as income by the payee but that option was removed for new awards starting on January 1, 2018.
[That's not how taxes work in the u.s ](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071114/can-moving-higher-tax-bracket-cause-me-have-lower-net-income.asp)
On its face it doesn't, but it can & absolutely does work out that way once factoring in deductions etc.
For OP, after his personal exemption (which is constant) he pays little, if any taxes right now.
Based on other responses, it will stay that way even with child support.
Do you have assets that aren't income? You owning your home has nothing to do with it. Unless you have some kind of massive funds that are not income, they won't care. Even if you did, they may not care.
Nope. The only thing I own is my house which is jointly owned by my mom because she gifted me half after the divorce because she wanted me and her grandkids to have a place to live. No other assets or stocks of income producing things.
Then you are 100% right. She's going to have a very rude awakening if she files, but at this point, I'd encourage it. Tell her you understand her frustration and that maybe the court can see it more fairly. That way, there is no discussing what is and isn't fair.
I think that’s how I’m going to approach it. I’ve avoided filling myself do to self shame of not wanting to be the man who gets support from his ex wife and her already taking every opportunity to take shots and emasculate me for making less than her. I also avoid filling for support because I just don’t want to be the bad guy and rock the boat on what for the most part has been a healthy co parenting system we have (interpersonal relationship aside). But I’m tired of her being so blatantly wrong and obtuse about this issue and throwing it in my face.
I'm sorry they've made you feel like this. We tell women, " You didn't create that child alone, and you shouldn't support them on your own either." It applies to men, too. Times have changed, and parents are equally responsible and should be equally recognized in every aspect of parenting. You aren't getting support from your ex, your child is. You have had some advantages with your support system, but that doesn't take away from her obligations to the child you both share. She is the one pushing for support, so let her have it. She'll be the one ordered to pay, and maybe she'll realize that she can't put all the burden on you.
My husband's ex-wife, who pays him child support, has filed for a modification because he no longer has a mortgage, while she just bought a too-big house and has a huge mortgage. The hearing is next week, though my husband's attorney has assured him the judge will not give 2 shits about anyone's mortgage or lack thereof. If that mattered, my husband could just go get a mortgage. Expenses do not matter in setting child support, according to the attorney (even though they make you fill out the income & Expense statement).
Use your states online child support calculator. There is no input for rent or other expenses.
If I were you, I'd encourage her to file.
Thanks for the information. I’d love to know how that hearing goes. I don’t understand why she thinks she’d get child support. She’s always kinda held it over my head when things get rough between us that she’s never filled as if she’s doing me some big favor when she’s always made somewhere around 3 to 4 times as much money as me.
Hearing was this morning. As lawyer.promised, expenses did not factor in to child support calculation. She was ordered to continue paying child support even though she has a mortgage and my husband does not.
Based on what you've said, she is quite probably being encouraged by her father, brother, or both. In their eyes, men pay child support and the courts will make you do so. They're likely all in for a rude awakening.
I'd actually suggest you ask your attorney about the pros and cons of you filing vs letting her file. They'd know your local judges better, and if there are any predispositions around that factor. Also, I'd go ahead and ask the attorney exactly what you need in place as documentation to avoid her next move once she is ordered to pay you...her filing for primary custody or at least enough of an increase in her parenting time that you have to pay her.
Basically, before you instruct your attorney, consult them.
Some people, I think, are able and willing to distort reality in whatever way helps them feel like they're The Good Guy. I have a few exes like that.
I imagine the theory is that it's less trouble than trying to be a good person in the first place. Less prone to failure probably. I have an ex who literally acknowledged being abusive and then, when that didn't make me take him back, blamed me for it. He was able to acknowledge his fault just long enough to actually tell our mutual friends about it, but then had to twist it again when it didn't have the desired effect.
Most likely she'll end up owing you child support. Go to the state calculator (https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/) and you'll see exactly what they take into account. Rent/mortgage doesn't matter, but if she's covering health insurance and all the child care costs, that would lower her amount.
One other thing that could affect it is if you're underemployed. If you're making $36k as an unskilled high school drop out,, you're fine. If you have a degree or are otherwise skilled, they can impute your income and calculate it based on the average for your field. Or, for example, if you were making $300k at Google then quit once you paid off your house, they'll impute your previous income and support room be based off of that
I’m being 100 truthful. Reddit is anonymous and I’m looking for accurate information about my situation. The home I own I was gifted half of by my mother after divorce because she wanted a place for me and her grandkids to stay. My ex is bitter about that. I work at an Amazon warehouse and my highest level of education is high school. I’m not under employed in fact I’m getting a job as a school bus driver that should bump me into the 40k range. I don’t understand why she thinks she’d get child support other than her life experiences and world view is men pay women child support. That’s just how it is. She’s upper management and has always made significantly more than me but is just terrible at managing money and has a serious problem with shopping and credit cards.
My BIL and his ex had a similar dynamic, different state. They were 50/50, and he was paying child support. She decided she deserved more. The court disagreed, and she ended up having to pay him. Very upset, she tried for years to alienate the kiddos, etc.
I'd just say, be a good, consistent dad, grey rock her as much as possible, and document everything. It'll work out.
That’s what I was thinking but she’s so admit that she’s owed money it had me second guessing myself because she really smart in other areas of her life she’s just terrible at finances. I do my best to help her out when she gets in a pinch but I’m tired of subsidizing someone that makes 3x as much as me when I already pay for half of all child expenses. I’m tired of the threats i just wish she do it already. I guess I could but I don’t need or want her money. I’d rather have her file and get a reality check without me being the bad guy. I’m tired of being of the bad guy when I’m just trying my best.
I understand that, and I recommend not engaging with her.
"I'm going to file for child support and then you'll see!"
"Okay, thanks for letting me know."
"You don't think I will? I'll do it!!!"
"Okay, thanks for letting me know."
Basically, do not follow where she leads the conversation. She's trying to get you riled up and she's trying to freak you out so you'll do whatever she wants. Just politely don't engage, she can have her little song and dance but she'll have to sing and dance alone.
Let me say right now that I know I'm asking a lot. If you want the story feel free to DM me but I have been calm and polite to the point of thinking I was going to vomit. But it actually doesn't help you or the kids in **any** way to engage with this stuff.
Polite. Detached. Uninterested. Basically like if a random person started showing you their homemade NFTs but they're related to your boss? Like that. Do nothing that will prolong the encounter, do nothing to overtly offend (but if she becomes offended regardless then so be it).
It's so hard not to be invested, but you can do this.
I appreciate the advice. I need to hear that as a reminder. It’s so hard like you said to not let emotions take control and crowd out my rational thinking.
Your ex-wife is going to owe you money. Child support basically comes down to annual salary and how much custody you each have. It won’t matter that you own your home and she rents from her father.
You warned her. Just let her make her mistake.
I’m going to encourage her to do it. I’m tired of her holding it over me that last 4 years every time we have a disagreement about something like she doing me some big favor not filling for support when she’s always made 3 to 4x more than me and I’ve always had the kids in my care half the time. I don’t understand why she has it in her head she’s get awarded child support other than the fact all her girlfriends and family thinks it’s outrageous that she doesn’t because they do. It’s like talking to a brick wall. I’m a man she’s a woman I should be paying her child support income be dammed is her worldview and she’s so smart about other things it had me worried that maybe she was right.
Assuming $36k is your actual amount and you're not self employed or a small business owner and writing off more than $100k and that you truly have 50/50(not just on paper) let her do what she wants. She'd end up owing you. Most child support calculators just take into account gross income of both and have the higher earner pay the lower earner a set percent. Now if you are excluding something here(like they could impute a much higher income than you currently receive) reality could end up very different.
I’m being 100 truthful. Reddit is anonymous and I’m looking for accurate information about my situation. The home I own I was gifted half of by my mother after divorce because she wanted a place for me and her grandkids to stay. My ex is bitter about that. I work at an Amazon warehouse and my highest level of education is high school. I’m not under employed in fact I’m getting a job as a school bus driver that should bump me into the 40k range. I don’t understand why she thinks she’d get child support other than her life experiences and world view is men pay women child support. That’s just how it is. She’s upper management and has always made significantly more than me but is just terrible at managing money and has a serious problem with shopping and credit cards.
The only time I’ve ever seen the court consider anything besides income and custody as part of the formula, is when one of the primary parents has another child. I’ve seen that decrease their required payment with another child (via a different partner) in the mix.
Then, let her file. As long as you have 50/50 custody, which means an even split of over nights then she'll end up having to pay you like $1000 a month or more of child support.
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Stop doing her taxes. If there is anything even the slightest bit funky, she'll use it against you.
If she tries get a good lawyer for court.
Just curious how you can live in $36,000 in CA.
That's about what I end up spending if you cut out splurges and rent. Rent is more than $36k a year with so cal prices. If you want to reduce your bills, the FIRE communities can be helpful. However, its a lot of DIY and thrifting in those communities...and not everyone likes spending their weekend that way. And it's really ok for people to like different things.
Owning the home free and clear is a huge advantage.
She should be paying child support to you. You may not need that money but it’s not your money to turn down. It may be the only real support the child ever gets from her and, no offense, it doesn’t look like you’ll be able to offer much either. I’m in Bakersfield and my costs are as low as I can make them. But a water polo suit for my daughter was $85 in 2011. It’d be nice if your kid had a license and insurance. Can you afford that extra cost? That’s what a fund like that is for.
Psssh No judge in his right mind would grant her child support. If anything, she’ll end up having to pay
Be prepared: If she’s desperate for money from you, she may apply for increase in custody, to get Child Support from you. Talk to your attorney.
THIS. Get a good attorney, make sure the kids are with you the full 50% and do not badmouth the ex. In my husband's case (I'm the stepmom) it was amazing how she managed to turn one head, then another, until she had all the kids convinced they were better off with her. It rocked his world and added a financial sting that made it tough for him to ever be the "fun parent." It can happen right under your nose.
My son and his wife divorced here in Arizona. Agreed to no child support, split other expenses equally. She made more than he did, so she would have to pay and she couldn't afford it either. Rach state has different rules.
As the old saying goes “be careful what you pray for you just may get it”. If your numbers are correct she will wind up paying you child support. 🙂
You file teach her
What the hell is she doing with her money? $100,000 a year and still lives with parent? Good lord…
[удалено]
That’s what people unwise with their money think..$100K income is strong money — just use it wisely
How is the possible?. A child support worksheet is mandatory by law. Child support is not an optional process in divorces. Do you mean they found you both made similar income and it's a wash? But you are correct if she has more income she will have to pay you support. Although if it's always been this way and you should already be receiving support. I am highly suss of this post.
The couple can agree to no child support.
Can't speak for CA but in my state, any agreement in relation to children must be approved by a judge. Usually, there should be some sort of equitable exchange (ex. You keep the house and all equity in it in lieu of child support because to by me out you will need second mortgage and your monthly payment will be higher than a child support payment) My guess is their agreement was approved because otherwise woman would have to pay child support to a man and that's still frowned upon in many jurisdictions
The most you can do is agree to a lesser amount but not to no amount. I call b******* on this post. my guess is he is already receiving child support and she wants to lower it. But he doesn't want to admit that he's receiving child support. https://www.moshtaellaw.com/child-support/waiver-of-child-support/ Under California law, when a minor child is involved in a divorce, neither parent can legally waive their child support obligations. Section 4001 of the California Family Code says that the court can order one or both parents to pay for child support in case of a minor child. The child’s right to receive support from parents is inherent in the law, and parents cannot waive it.
It's NOT bullshit, I have full physical and legal custody of both of our children and she pays no CS, because she claims she can't afford it. Also note that she refused to provide any of the required / requested financial documentation. The judge even called me a petty person for requesting CS.
>The child’s right to receive support from parents is inherent in the law, and parents cannot waive it. The child is getting support from both parents because there is 50/50 custody. Child support payments to the other parent is not the only way a child is supported.
If one apparently makes $36,000 and the other makes 100,000 it's the Court's duty to make sure the child has the same status of living in both homes. I still stand by my claim that this is a suspicious post
There was a case like this in the paternity court— the dad was awarded child support from mom— maybe this OP saw the show and wants to see what Reddit says..
So, who will force the parents to pay child support if both parents agreed to no child support payments between them and no one disputes the the said agreement?
I'm just speaking from experience of my own divorce . They have a mandatory form and you have no option other than to pay more then the calculations say. Of course if one party never collects that's whatever but that's not what happened. OP has a 44k difference in pay...no way the court would sign off on that seeing as it would be a massive detriment to the child. OP is leaving out some facts for sure.
Notice that it says the court *can* order child support. That also means the court can *not* order child support if they don't feel that it's warranted. They can find other ways to make sure both parents are equally supporting the kids. Maybe mom has to pay for health insurance or tuition or extracurriculars or something, rather than paying child support. Maybe dad is the only one allowed to claim the kids on his taxes and recoups some money that way instead. If they are both contributing equally, the court wouldn't order child support. Now that I think about it, an agreement like this is probably why the mom feels like op should be paying child support. She's probably having to foot the bill for most of the kids' upbringing, and she sees it as unfair because she's not taking their differing incomes into consideration. She thinks she deserves child support because she's spending so much on the kids, but the reality is that if she weren't spending all that money on the kids, she would have to be paying it to op as child support.
I got divorced like a year or two ago, and my ex and I have very different income. Child support was not a requirement.
When I divorced in CA roughly a decade ago, we had a no CS/spousal support agreement in the decree. Judge signed off on it without a single question. Now if it would actually hold up against a child support order opened by either party after the divorce, I have no idea.
..... not even when custody of the child is split 50/50, and therefore both parents are providing clothing and food, *and* any extra expenses are split 50/50 as well, *and* both parents have agreed it's not necessary?? It's not like either is exactly an uninvolved parent here
I had an uncontested divorce in CA with 50/50 custody and we have no child support schedule or payments in our divorce decree. It literally says "as agreed upon by both parties" under that section of our divorce agreement. Been divorced 6 years, never an issue.
I divorced 2003 in California. We never had any type of financial settlement in out divorce. Just custody orders and the divorce judgement. I knew any CS order would be paid by his retired parents and I wasn't about to crimp their retirement. They didn't decide to have a baby, we did. So I never pursued CS. His mom paid $200 a month for 10+ years until he stepped up with his own $200. I got the last CS the night before his mom passed.
They don’t care about debt or assets (unless you have a trust fund or something). If they counted that, people would run up debt to manipulate the system.
Has anyone ever thought to ask the judge to require a real personal finance education course for the other side?
If you think about it, she already owes you. Let her file.
Please update later.
>She makes 100k a year ( I know this because she has me do her taxes every year ) I make 36k. Here's the calculator you're looking for: https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/
Let her take you to court. She will have to give you support if you only make 36 and she makes 100 and you guys have 50/50. Debt and housing have nothing to do with it.
Please do this. She's being petty, teach her a 18 (minus kid's current age) compounded lesson. And make sure you put 90% of it away, the other 10% use to do cool things with your kid they will remember for the rest of their life.
My brother's ex-wife tried this. It was 50/50 custody and my brother's health insurance. The ex took him to court because she remarried, got pregnant, and "her expenses have gone up". The judge looked at the two incomes and asked if she really wanted to do this as it was really clear she should be paying him.
Did she still try to?
The judge had to spell it out her...both how the difference in incomes meant she should have been paying him all along AND how her having a kid with another guy does nothing to impact child support for the child with her ex husband. Reluctantly, she backed down. She has a Masters, was a VP where she worked, and a clear case of how people can be educated beyond their IQ.
Yep- they will look at your comparative incomes. Let her try. There is a good chance the judge will grant YOU child support from her.
Amongst a lot of other good advice here, you should think about putting your house in a trust, then renting your house from the trust.
Why is this good idea? Genuine question
Beyond any custody dispute, having property in an irrevocable trust prevents it from being part of your personal assets. Removes ability to contest it as property in a will, as well as any issues with probate. Let's state down the will, finances change and you have to file bankruptcy, the house is outside of your personal assets and can't be considered in a bankruptcy hearing if set up correctly. If remarrying down the line for OP, isn't marital property if divorcing in the future.
Honestly, I'm thinking about doing that just because.
Go see a lawyer and If it is advantageous for you file for support. I think child support is absurd when both parent have custody but if she’s threatened to do it, she’s earned the consequences of being greedy. Put the money away for your kid.
If you are in Canada there are Federal tables that the judge will follow. I had 50/50 joint custody. I had to pay her half the child support she would have received if I never had the kids. You would think she would then have to pay me half. Nope. The only dough I saved was that I didn’t pay her for the time I had the kids. I’m not complaining because that was the judgement handed down.
>If you are in Canada... Clearly stated in the second sentence: California. Don't they let you Canadians read?
I even double checked, just to be certain I remembered correctly. I don't see California. I see CA. Which can be California. It also can be Canada. There is a failure to read here, but it doesn't seem like it's Canada's fault.
Is everyone an AH where you come from. Other people read these things you know.
But the comment was directed to the OP...
No, sorry!
Normally it's offset child support. You technically pay each other child support with only the difference being remitted. So if I oversimplified and assumed CS was 10% of income. She owes 10k (10% of 100k) annually You owe 3.6k (10% of 36k) annually One a net basis she would remit $6,400 annually or approx $540/month. So she should go ahead and file for CS to lock in your amounts
Where did you get $7200? I'm getting $6400
Hahaha let her file. When she ends up with a child support payment on top of her debt, she’ll know she f**ked up. My ex insisted I file for child support because “The courts haven’t ordered me to give you a dime.” (He only wanted 3 weekends a month.) I said ok. Have it your way. He regrets that decision every day of his life since I got the order.
File for it yourself first.
This is the way
So ask yourself this if you made more than her, would she file on you... everyone knows the answer is yes... So... why haven't you filled it in on her? Is it because it's not what men do or some other sexist bullshit that is used ad nauseam to stop men from using things they are entitled to?
Yeah honestly it’s a mixture of shame and bullying by her brother and father who both pay child support to their exes so they think I should as well even though the situations are totally different. I am sheepish about the idea of filling for it because of the stigma I’d receive, both real and perceived. I think you guys have convinced me though because a 100 percent if the roles were reversed she’d file on me.
You def should file. Or goad her into filing and let the chips fall where they land, lol. But yes, if they were reversed, and you know she wouldn’t hesitate—neither should you. It’s really for the best interest of your kiddo. 🖤
Stop sharing your financials,Financials, they can't judge you if they don't know
Child support is the patents obligation to the child.
And the child's right to receive. If a parent doesn't need it for bills and expenses, it can be saved for college.
You definitely should. Especially if she’s just blowing through the money that could go towards bettering your child’s standard of living, saving for their education, etc.,. It’s not even about you OR her - in this case, you truly would be doing what’s best for your child.
Why do you give a shit what your ex wife’s family thinks? You shouldn’t. You’re her ex so they’re not going to like you anyway so don’t worry about it.
The California child support calculator is free online and you can see. California considers many factors that other states do not, so it's impossible to know without more information.
Oh, please let her. She's in for a very rude and expensive awakening. If she thought she was in debt before, let her try child support. And if she doesn't pay that, there are some very serious consequences. CS doesn't go away.
Just don’t engage with her anymore on the topic. Let her know that you are more than fine with her filing but you don’t think it’s going to turn out how she wants and then put an end to other attempts to start the conversation again. Let her know “we have talked about this and I told you that I’m fine with you filing”. Don’t engage in the conversation any further than this because if she’s been bringing it up this often and not doing anything, then she’s likely just trying to get a reaction. If she does then she will pay the fees and lose, if she doesn’t then nothing changes and she will eventually realize that she should stop bringing it up because she’s not getting the reaction she wants from the conversation. If she knows she wouldn’t get it and that’s the reason why she just keeps bringing it up to guilt trip you without pursuing it, then she also can’t try and say later that you took her for child support when you didn’t need it. Just put a stop to the conversation and leave it up to her whether she’s going to pursue it or not so it can’t be blamed on you later.
Let her file. Then save the money to put towards your kid’s future because let’s face it, if she’s in such then she’s not saving for college is she.
No you’re 100 percent correct. She has a negative net worth. Each pay raise and promotion she gets she digs herself deeper with extended access to credit.
Use the california child support calculator (online) it will tell you exactly how much support and who owes who.
Let her file, you’ll probably end up with her paying you if you’re 50/50 and she makes 3x as much money as you do. You warned her, not your fault if she fucks around and finds out. If I were you though, I’d sock any support she does send you into a savings account though. Because it sounds like she’ll be coming back to you asking for extra assistance with bills for the kids, and they shouldn’t suffer because their mom is terrible with money.
I don’t disagree. I do my best to help her extra when I can. But my kids don’t suffer from a lack of stuff. Their mom loves to buy them stuff because she loves shopping. Does a 7 year old need a pair of Jordan’s? I don’t think so but she buys em anyways and I buy him a cheap pair from Walmart for at my house.
Odds are with 50/50 custody if she files, she'd have to pay you as she makes 3X what you do and you have equal parenting time.....
That’s my understanding and I’ve tried to explain that to her but she’s got it in her head that since she’s a woman she’d automatically get awarded. I tried to explain that family courts don’t operate that way anymore but it’s like talking to a brick wall. That I’ve got reassurance I think the next time she brings it up I’m going to encourage her to file and get what’s coming to her. I’m tired of trying to protect my ex from the consequences of her actions.
Let her do it and enjoy the results.
Child support is a matter of math and nothing more. It's (your net income)+(her net income) ='s X per week. (X per week) is compared to the child support table and it produces the support amount as Figure Y. Then Figure Y is pro rated by parenting time and the percentage of income each parent contributes to the (X per week) figure.... and that's it. So if she's making 3 X's what you make, she'll be paying you.... I would assume she'll speak with an attorney before filing and he/she should explain it all to her. There's no sinister plan by the Gov't to rob anyone...the CS tables are part of the statutes and apply equally to everyone unless the (X per week) figure exceeds the highest amount listed on the tables...in that case (you've got to be millionaires for this to apply), the Court simply applies a best interests standard and crafts some amount of of thin air based on incomes
Let her file. She can learn the hard way.
yep, she’ll learn the meaning of FAFO
The courts would order she pay you , but with that , she will be allowed to claim them on her tax return every year that she pays. Currently you two have the right to split it or split tax years.
Who pays child support has nothing to do with who gets to claim them. IRS rules state that the parent who host the majority of overnights (there’s an odd number of days in the year, so it’s rare that the number of overnights is equal) gets to claim them. If for some other reason the number of overnights is equal (for example a leap year), then the parent with the higher AGI gets to claim them. None of which matters if there is a written custody agreement/order stating who gets to claim them.
I’ve seen some divorce decrees dictating who claims them, like one parent in even years, the other in odd, or if multiple children, the parents split and claim every year for their assigned kiddos.
My sister's custody agreement is like that
They'd both have to claim the support tho, right? Assuming so, it could affect OPs tax obligation so it may be in his best interest to consider that as well, before encouraging her to shoot herself in the foot?
Child support isn't taxable income. It's their share of the child's expenses. And yes, it appears on both returns. You claim the kids if they lived with you for the majority of the year, unless you have an agreement otherwise. (Some parents alternate, some split the difference and each take one, some let the higher earner claim them since they get more out of it, and they are kind with the surplus.)
Child support isn’t a claimed item like Alimony used to be. Child support remains as taxable income by the person who’s income it comes from. Child support has never affected the taxable income of the payer or payee. Alimony on the other hand used to be a deduction for the payer and had to be claimed as income by the payee but that option was removed for new awards starting on January 1, 2018.
Thanks! Didn't want to see OP jump tax brackets and end up worse off. Good to know!
[That's not how taxes work in the u.s ](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071114/can-moving-higher-tax-bracket-cause-me-have-lower-net-income.asp)
On its face it doesn't, but it can & absolutely does work out that way once factoring in deductions etc. For OP, after his personal exemption (which is constant) he pays little, if any taxes right now. Based on other responses, it will stay that way even with child support.
i agree with you that a court would make her pay you child support. is she really dumb?
Child support is based on a mathematical formula. I don't think you're at risk for an unfair ruling.
But the formula is usually available on court website
Do you have assets that aren't income? You owning your home has nothing to do with it. Unless you have some kind of massive funds that are not income, they won't care. Even if you did, they may not care.
Nope. The only thing I own is my house which is jointly owned by my mom because she gifted me half after the divorce because she wanted me and her grandkids to have a place to live. No other assets or stocks of income producing things.
Then you are 100% right. She's going to have a very rude awakening if she files, but at this point, I'd encourage it. Tell her you understand her frustration and that maybe the court can see it more fairly. That way, there is no discussing what is and isn't fair.
I think that’s how I’m going to approach it. I’ve avoided filling myself do to self shame of not wanting to be the man who gets support from his ex wife and her already taking every opportunity to take shots and emasculate me for making less than her. I also avoid filling for support because I just don’t want to be the bad guy and rock the boat on what for the most part has been a healthy co parenting system we have (interpersonal relationship aside). But I’m tired of her being so blatantly wrong and obtuse about this issue and throwing it in my face.
Stop trying to talk her out of filing. Let her do it if she wants
There is no shame. Child support is for the children, not you.
I'm sorry they've made you feel like this. We tell women, " You didn't create that child alone, and you shouldn't support them on your own either." It applies to men, too. Times have changed, and parents are equally responsible and should be equally recognized in every aspect of parenting. You aren't getting support from your ex, your child is. You have had some advantages with your support system, but that doesn't take away from her obligations to the child you both share. She is the one pushing for support, so let her have it. She'll be the one ordered to pay, and maybe she'll realize that she can't put all the burden on you.
I hope she files or you file for the kids sake, to give you extra income for the kids when they are with you.
My husband's ex-wife, who pays him child support, has filed for a modification because he no longer has a mortgage, while she just bought a too-big house and has a huge mortgage. The hearing is next week, though my husband's attorney has assured him the judge will not give 2 shits about anyone's mortgage or lack thereof. If that mattered, my husband could just go get a mortgage. Expenses do not matter in setting child support, according to the attorney (even though they make you fill out the income & Expense statement). Use your states online child support calculator. There is no input for rent or other expenses. If I were you, I'd encourage her to file.
Thanks for the information. I’d love to know how that hearing goes. I don’t understand why she thinks she’d get child support. She’s always kinda held it over my head when things get rough between us that she’s never filled as if she’s doing me some big favor when she’s always made somewhere around 3 to 4 times as much money as me.
Hearing was this morning. As lawyer.promised, expenses did not factor in to child support calculation. She was ordered to continue paying child support even though she has a mortgage and my husband does not.
Based on what you've said, she is quite probably being encouraged by her father, brother, or both. In their eyes, men pay child support and the courts will make you do so. They're likely all in for a rude awakening. I'd actually suggest you ask your attorney about the pros and cons of you filing vs letting her file. They'd know your local judges better, and if there are any predispositions around that factor. Also, I'd go ahead and ask the attorney exactly what you need in place as documentation to avoid her next move once she is ordered to pay you...her filing for primary custody or at least enough of an increase in her parenting time that you have to pay her. Basically, before you instruct your attorney, consult them.
Some people, I think, are able and willing to distort reality in whatever way helps them feel like they're The Good Guy. I have a few exes like that. I imagine the theory is that it's less trouble than trying to be a good person in the first place. Less prone to failure probably. I have an ex who literally acknowledged being abusive and then, when that didn't make me take him back, blamed me for it. He was able to acknowledge his fault just long enough to actually tell our mutual friends about it, but then had to twist it again when it didn't have the desired effect.
I will let you know what happens!
Most likely she'll end up owing you child support. Go to the state calculator (https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/) and you'll see exactly what they take into account. Rent/mortgage doesn't matter, but if she's covering health insurance and all the child care costs, that would lower her amount. One other thing that could affect it is if you're underemployed. If you're making $36k as an unskilled high school drop out,, you're fine. If you have a degree or are otherwise skilled, they can impute your income and calculate it based on the average for your field. Or, for example, if you were making $300k at Google then quit once you paid off your house, they'll impute your previous income and support room be based off of that
I’m being 100 truthful. Reddit is anonymous and I’m looking for accurate information about my situation. The home I own I was gifted half of by my mother after divorce because she wanted a place for me and her grandkids to stay. My ex is bitter about that. I work at an Amazon warehouse and my highest level of education is high school. I’m not under employed in fact I’m getting a job as a school bus driver that should bump me into the 40k range. I don’t understand why she thinks she’d get child support other than her life experiences and world view is men pay women child support. That’s just how it is. She’s upper management and has always made significantly more than me but is just terrible at managing money and has a serious problem with shopping and credit cards.
My BIL and his ex had a similar dynamic, different state. They were 50/50, and he was paying child support. She decided she deserved more. The court disagreed, and she ended up having to pay him. Very upset, she tried for years to alienate the kiddos, etc. I'd just say, be a good, consistent dad, grey rock her as much as possible, and document everything. It'll work out.
Updateme
lol you take her to court.
Let her take him so she pays the filing fees
Updateme!
Let her go for it, she’s goin to get a shock when the judge probably decides she has to pay support considering the disparity in your incomes
That’s what I was thinking but she’s so admit that she’s owed money it had me second guessing myself because she really smart in other areas of her life she’s just terrible at finances. I do my best to help her out when she gets in a pinch but I’m tired of subsidizing someone that makes 3x as much as me when I already pay for half of all child expenses. I’m tired of the threats i just wish she do it already. I guess I could but I don’t need or want her money. I’d rather have her file and get a reality check without me being the bad guy. I’m tired of being of the bad guy when I’m just trying my best.
I understand that, and I recommend not engaging with her. "I'm going to file for child support and then you'll see!" "Okay, thanks for letting me know." "You don't think I will? I'll do it!!!" "Okay, thanks for letting me know." Basically, do not follow where she leads the conversation. She's trying to get you riled up and she's trying to freak you out so you'll do whatever she wants. Just politely don't engage, she can have her little song and dance but she'll have to sing and dance alone. Let me say right now that I know I'm asking a lot. If you want the story feel free to DM me but I have been calm and polite to the point of thinking I was going to vomit. But it actually doesn't help you or the kids in **any** way to engage with this stuff. Polite. Detached. Uninterested. Basically like if a random person started showing you their homemade NFTs but they're related to your boss? Like that. Do nothing that will prolong the encounter, do nothing to overtly offend (but if she becomes offended regardless then so be it). It's so hard not to be invested, but you can do this.
I appreciate the advice. I need to hear that as a reminder. It’s so hard like you said to not let emotions take control and crowd out my rational thinking.
Your ex-wife is going to owe you money. Child support basically comes down to annual salary and how much custody you each have. It won’t matter that you own your home and she rents from her father. You warned her. Just let her make her mistake.
I’m going to encourage her to do it. I’m tired of her holding it over me that last 4 years every time we have a disagreement about something like she doing me some big favor not filling for support when she’s always made 3 to 4x more than me and I’ve always had the kids in my care half the time. I don’t understand why she has it in her head she’s get awarded child support other than the fact all her girlfriends and family thinks it’s outrageous that she doesn’t because they do. It’s like talking to a brick wall. I’m a man she’s a woman I should be paying her child support income be dammed is her worldview and she’s so smart about other things it had me worried that maybe she was right.
Good for you.
Assuming $36k is your actual amount and you're not self employed or a small business owner and writing off more than $100k and that you truly have 50/50(not just on paper) let her do what she wants. She'd end up owing you. Most child support calculators just take into account gross income of both and have the higher earner pay the lower earner a set percent. Now if you are excluding something here(like they could impute a much higher income than you currently receive) reality could end up very different.
I’m being 100 truthful. Reddit is anonymous and I’m looking for accurate information about my situation. The home I own I was gifted half of by my mother after divorce because she wanted a place for me and her grandkids to stay. My ex is bitter about that. I work at an Amazon warehouse and my highest level of education is high school. I’m not under employed in fact I’m getting a job as a school bus driver that should bump me into the 40k range. I don’t understand why she thinks she’d get child support other than her life experiences and world view is men pay women child support. That’s just how it is. She’s upper management and has always made significantly more than me but is just terrible at managing money and has a serious problem with shopping and credit cards.
The only time I’ve ever seen the court consider anything besides income and custody as part of the formula, is when one of the primary parents has another child. I’ve seen that decrease their required payment with another child (via a different partner) in the mix.
Then, let her file. As long as you have 50/50 custody, which means an even split of over nights then she'll end up having to pay you like $1000 a month or more of child support.
If you truly have 50/50 custody and split costs of bills, she very well may end up owing you child support.
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