Personally I find frequent pov switches very confusing. It takes me out of the story if I constantly have to solve clues to figure out who is even talking.
If you absolutely must tell the same scene from two perspectives, then instead of a full chapter where the pov switches every other paragraph, I'd much rather read two separate chapters, one for each pov. It's possible to write this in a way that it doesn't get boring or too repetitive if you lay the focus on different things.
But I would use this sparingly because it can easily become annoying and drag down the flow of a story.
One form I dig is playing through the same days events but each time it runs through with someone else it shows extra scenes until having full context of that days events
>How do you let the reader experience what is going on in both the main characters heads during the scene if that is equally important?
Body language and dialogue mostly. We don't need a whole internal monologue about how character B is nervous talking to character A because of a secret crush, A can just notice from their POV that B is blushing and stuttering and even if they don't connect the dots on what that means, readers will.
Also you can add that in retroactively! We don't need to immediately know what B thought of that scene we just read from A's perspective. We can go through multiple chapters with A, then when it's time for B's POV they can reflect on what they were thinking back in previous chapters. Or if we stay in A's perspective the whole time, they can puzzle it out or B can just straight up tell them.
I don’t like head hopping. I want a scene from one character’s pov only. If I need someone else’s perspective, they get a pov scene directly afterward as they think about what happened.
If you want to write the scene from both POVs, you could do them separately. Write it from character A's POV and then from character B's POV. Then decide which works better and use that version in your story. If you want to share the other version with the world, you could post it as a one shot and link it at the bottom of the main chapter.
Head hopping (changing POV within a scene) can get very disorientating and confusing. Some professional authors do it, yes, but it is very difficult to pull it off well.
I sometimes switch within a scene or within a conversation when writing 3rd limited, but I mark it with a scene break (--- or similar) and I give them at least 500 words or so before I switch back
I have been going through some books here at home and found one author who does the same. She switches within a scene but gives each character more words or even a part of a dialogue before switching back. It is interesting what you find once you start really paying attention to that...
>My beta tells me I should not do that.
That's the general advice I've heard, especially here.
Now for the record, I have head-popped before, but not in this context. If I were in your situation, I would be tempted to tell the scene from Character A's POV, having them guess what Character B was thinking/feeling by body language, facial expression, and tone of voice. That might just be good enough to get Character B's side of the story felt. Or, the very next chapter, Character B could think back about that scene, exactly as u/Welfycat suggested. This might only be necessary if Character B's side requires more fleshing out -- if their memories/experiences give them added context to the scene that aren't mentioned.
So yes, I would stick to a single POV for this scene.
Well, before reading Dune, I'd have strongly agreed with your beta. I'm now starting God Emperor and can't say I ever felt taken out of a scene because of Herbert's prose; and I don't feel *omniscient* is a good descriptor for how POV is handled in the Dune books.
That said, I wouldn't recommend writing this way for most stories. You could, for example, have one POV character live through the scene with the reader, and the other POV character mull over the conversation in the next chapter, if you feel their personal lens is absolutely necessary for the integrity of the story you're trying to tell.
I never run into this problem myself, though. Either there's only one POV character, or there's a damn good reason we're currently not in a particular character's head *or* there'll be a flashback from a different POV somewhere down the road.
Thank you for the hint with the Dune books. I have been looking for some examples where authors do switch more often and I will check them out. I just want to get a feel for how others do it.
I just started reading Dune. I have to admit that you do get used to his style, but it took me something like 50 pages before I no longer found the 'head hopping' jarring.
I'm okay with a mid-scene switch at a pivotal moment, but like... probably just the one; constant shifting back and forth feels very clumsy to me. When I want to get both characters' takes on a scene, I'll find a way to recap how Character B felt about it in their next POV section without rehashing the whole conversation. "B couldn't believe what A had said to him-- how could he honestly think that B would ever XYZ?", that kind of thing.
>Always write the scene from one POV only.
This is something often told to beginners, but like most things in writing isn't a strict rule. If you look at famous authors (Stephen King, for example), they will sometimes change POV within a scene or, in some cases, even within a sentence. However, it takes a skilled and experienced writer to pull this off without it being jarring or confusing the reader, and it's not something I would recommend if you don't have a clear intention for why you're doing it.
My advice would be:
* Identify the pros and cons of writing the scene strictly in either A's pov or B's pov
* Consider how you could convey (for example) B's perspective from A's pov
* Consider if you switched povs in the scene, what would that add to the story?
* Consider how you would switch povs (For example, I wouldn't switch every paragraph as that would be very jarring for me, but I might make one switch during the scene)
* Write three versions of the scene: one from A's pov, one from B's pov, and one that switches between their perspective. This is time-consuming, but then you can compare and choose which you like better.
Hope this helps! :)
My advice would be to focus on one POV, but have that POV character make observations and conclusions that convey, even if only to an extent, the thoughts of the non-POV character.
I don't switch POVs, but in the fic I'm currently working on, the only time I switch POV is at the end of a chapter that contains a scripted Team Flare encounter. The grunts are simply reporting back to the admins or Lysandre what happened on their mission, and the moment the higher ups leave the scene, the chapter ends.
That said, I don't normally switch POVs and tend to stick to the protagonist's POV. It's easier for the readers (and myself) to keep track of what's happening if there's only one POV character. If you see me switch POVs, it's usually for the sake of plot.
First of all, congratulations on finding a beta! They're hard to find and worth their weight in gold. :) I also appreciate how thoughtful you are about your beta's advice.
Yes, switching POV is something many readers dislike, even if they don't know enough about the craft of writing to say, "I don't like frequent switches of POV." What most readers are looking for when they read is immersion: that feeling when the outside world falls away and you're completely absorbed in a story. Every POV change requires a reorientation for the reader. It's like switching drivers in a car—it's hard to feel like it's a smooth ride when every few minutes, the car stops and the drivers switch. I've seen a few published writers pull off omniscient, but it's difficult to do well.
A single POV is the preference for a lot of readers because it allows for immersion without breaks and deeper exploration of that character. Another advantage of staying in one POV is character voice. It's much easier to establish a character voice when we spend more time in the character's head and see other characters from their perspective. And it allows for mystery—either the smaller mysteries of how another person thinks, or a larger mystery like one character plotting against another. Readers are engaged by little puzzles like this.
I like having multiple POVs in my writing, but I only switch at chapter breaks. My general rule of thumb is that there needs to be geographical, temporal, or emotional distance between the characters for multiple POVs to work effectively. Maybe also experiential difference: a child and his father, for example. I've read drafts where the writer chose to have multiple POVs where all the characters are in the same place at the same time with similar outlooks, and it was hard to see why multiple POV was chosen at all. The writer got all the disadvantages of the switches with none of the advantages.
How to choose a POV character--the biggest factor for me is: who is driving this part of the story? Who has the most agency? Who is making the choices that affect the plot? Who is forced to reconsider their beliefs and embrace or reject changing those beliefs?
For my WIP, I have one character, A, trying to heal character B, who is traumatized and hostile. Character B is not going to change for a while. He hates A and doesn't trust him and nothing A does is going to change that. A basically needs to keep B prisoner so he doesn't escape and die from his injuries in the gutter somewhere. So, who's POV did I choose? A. He's the one who has to make choices (keep B prisoner and traumatize him further, or let him go when he'll die without treatment?) He has to fend off B's attacks, make sure B stays put, come up with creative solutions to heal B while not getting murdered in the process. He also slowly realizes that the only way he'll get through to B is to be more honest and vulnerable with him—two things that are difficult for him, and will require him to change. When he finally chips away at B's hostility and B has internal change, then I'll have chapters from B's POV.
Examples from my fic:
The POV character (Hermione Granger) is looking at someone (Draco Malfoy) who she dislikes:
>Malfoy's glamor had only changed his face to something less pointed and his hair to something less irradiated, but his stiff body language was still recognizable. He immediately ran his hands over his hair, checking for flyaways, as if a hair had any hope of breaking free of the gunk slathered on it.
This is an extremely subjective description from the POV character. Most fans would argue that Draco Malfoy is attractive, but dislike for someone colors our perception. So we're getting insight into the POV character's feelings while also getting a description of another character.
Here, Draco Malfoy is being extorted by the POV character, but he realizes something that will hurt her and give him an advantage:
>Malfoy stopped fidgeting with his cuffs. He sat, almost unnaturally still, staring at the parchment as Griphook worked.
>
>A chill ran down her back. "What is it?"
>
>He gazed at her serenely. "Just making peace with the money I'm about to lose. It's different for me, Granger. I'm used to the better things in life."
>
>She found herself unable to shake a tightness in her chest. "No tricks," she warned.
>
>He raised his hands lazily. "It's an official Gringotts document. What could I do?"
Hermione knows *something* is wrong, but won't figure it out until later. It heightens the sense of danger, because the danger is unknown. If I were switching POV between the two, we would know exactly what he's thinking, and that mystery would be gone.
The problem with the so-called head hopping tends to be that reader needs to constantly re-orient themselves to the new POV. Even if you clearly state who is thinking, the reader was 'seeing' the events from one character's POV. Suddenly being offered a completely different interpretation of what's going on makes them pause, so they can get into this new POV. And if it switches again in the next paragraph, there's another pause, and so on. They never have the chance to be properly immersed in the story. This might not affect you as the writer since you already know exactly what is going on with the characters.
Third person omniscient might allow you to portray both of their experience, but it tends to create more distance between the reader and the story, so it's probably not the best fit to capture the intricacies of their respective perspectives. There's a lot of good advice on this thread what you might do instead. On the other hand, it's your story, so ultimately you are the best person to decide what you want to do with it.
Thank you everyone for all the comments, hints and ideas.
You have all made some great points which I will consider. But as you also mentioned when I am writing my story I don't want to get repetitive. I feel that every written word, every details I share should have the purpose of driving the story forward. Revisiting scenes, having characters 'think' too much of stuff that happened in the past, often gets boring for me. I know there are ways to make that interesting but it feels tedious when constantly going back to the past to highlight the other character's POV.
I will definitely try to work more with character A observing the 'thinking/feeling by body language, facial expression, and tone of voice' of the other characters going forward and to deliver that to the reader.
And I will also consider more critically if character Bs POV is really needed for the story.
I also liked the suggestion to write one scene from the different perspectives as a test and to really spend some time playing with the different perspectives and evaluating what benefit they bring to the story.
Nevertheless, do you know good FF examples where POVs are switched? I would like to get a feel for how this is done in other stories. Also thank you for some book/author examples. I will check them out as well. Since despite all your valuable feedback I do still feel that some scenes (not all and not constantly) might benefit from a POV change.
I switch POVs like it’s my job (but it’s not cause I’m doing this shit for free).
But yeah, I do switch whenever I feel the other character has more compelling thoughts or perspective, even if I’m the middle of a convo. I mark with *** when the POV switches. No one’s complained yet.
Thank you very much for your comment. I also wrote one story where I kept changing POVs and up to this moment no reader has complaint about that. Would it be possible for you to maybe share one of your examples? Are you on AO3 or another platform? I would like to get a feel for how others are doing it, to see how I could improve my own writing if I want to continue changing the POV.
You can check out my fanfic on AO3 if you want! Here’s a link [Claiming the Light - AsiraO](https://archiveofourown.org/works/53130709/chapters/134432659)
That’s what I do too… personally I think as long as it’s clear who’s “thinking”, this is fine.
But generally… the idea of “rules” governing creative pursuits… meh. Obviously grammar and spelling matter… clarity matters… these things make your creative thing accessible, but hard and fast rules about structure are made to be broken if you ask me.
Thank you very much for your comment as well. Agreed, this is a way to express creativity and there are generally no rules to that... and I believe every way of writing a story will have people who like it and people who don't. Would it be possible for you to maybe share one of your examples? Are you on AO3 or another platform? I would like to get a feel for how others are doing it, to see how I could improve my own writing if I want to continue changing the POV.
Personally I find frequent pov switches very confusing. It takes me out of the story if I constantly have to solve clues to figure out who is even talking. If you absolutely must tell the same scene from two perspectives, then instead of a full chapter where the pov switches every other paragraph, I'd much rather read two separate chapters, one for each pov. It's possible to write this in a way that it doesn't get boring or too repetitive if you lay the focus on different things. But I would use this sparingly because it can easily become annoying and drag down the flow of a story.
One form I dig is playing through the same days events but each time it runs through with someone else it shows extra scenes until having full context of that days events
>How do you let the reader experience what is going on in both the main characters heads during the scene if that is equally important? Body language and dialogue mostly. We don't need a whole internal monologue about how character B is nervous talking to character A because of a secret crush, A can just notice from their POV that B is blushing and stuttering and even if they don't connect the dots on what that means, readers will. Also you can add that in retroactively! We don't need to immediately know what B thought of that scene we just read from A's perspective. We can go through multiple chapters with A, then when it's time for B's POV they can reflect on what they were thinking back in previous chapters. Or if we stay in A's perspective the whole time, they can puzzle it out or B can just straight up tell them.
I don’t like head hopping. I want a scene from one character’s pov only. If I need someone else’s perspective, they get a pov scene directly afterward as they think about what happened.
If you want to write the scene from both POVs, you could do them separately. Write it from character A's POV and then from character B's POV. Then decide which works better and use that version in your story. If you want to share the other version with the world, you could post it as a one shot and link it at the bottom of the main chapter. Head hopping (changing POV within a scene) can get very disorientating and confusing. Some professional authors do it, yes, but it is very difficult to pull it off well.
I sometimes switch within a scene or within a conversation when writing 3rd limited, but I mark it with a scene break (--- or similar) and I give them at least 500 words or so before I switch back
I have been going through some books here at home and found one author who does the same. She switches within a scene but gives each character more words or even a part of a dialogue before switching back. It is interesting what you find once you start really paying attention to that...
>My beta tells me I should not do that. That's the general advice I've heard, especially here. Now for the record, I have head-popped before, but not in this context. If I were in your situation, I would be tempted to tell the scene from Character A's POV, having them guess what Character B was thinking/feeling by body language, facial expression, and tone of voice. That might just be good enough to get Character B's side of the story felt. Or, the very next chapter, Character B could think back about that scene, exactly as u/Welfycat suggested. This might only be necessary if Character B's side requires more fleshing out -- if their memories/experiences give them added context to the scene that aren't mentioned. So yes, I would stick to a single POV for this scene.
Well, before reading Dune, I'd have strongly agreed with your beta. I'm now starting God Emperor and can't say I ever felt taken out of a scene because of Herbert's prose; and I don't feel *omniscient* is a good descriptor for how POV is handled in the Dune books. That said, I wouldn't recommend writing this way for most stories. You could, for example, have one POV character live through the scene with the reader, and the other POV character mull over the conversation in the next chapter, if you feel their personal lens is absolutely necessary for the integrity of the story you're trying to tell. I never run into this problem myself, though. Either there's only one POV character, or there's a damn good reason we're currently not in a particular character's head *or* there'll be a flashback from a different POV somewhere down the road.
Thank you for the hint with the Dune books. I have been looking for some examples where authors do switch more often and I will check them out. I just want to get a feel for how others do it.
I just started reading Dune. I have to admit that you do get used to his style, but it took me something like 50 pages before I no longer found the 'head hopping' jarring.
I'm okay with a mid-scene switch at a pivotal moment, but like... probably just the one; constant shifting back and forth feels very clumsy to me. When I want to get both characters' takes on a scene, I'll find a way to recap how Character B felt about it in their next POV section without rehashing the whole conversation. "B couldn't believe what A had said to him-- how could he honestly think that B would ever XYZ?", that kind of thing.
>Always write the scene from one POV only. This is something often told to beginners, but like most things in writing isn't a strict rule. If you look at famous authors (Stephen King, for example), they will sometimes change POV within a scene or, in some cases, even within a sentence. However, it takes a skilled and experienced writer to pull this off without it being jarring or confusing the reader, and it's not something I would recommend if you don't have a clear intention for why you're doing it. My advice would be: * Identify the pros and cons of writing the scene strictly in either A's pov or B's pov * Consider how you could convey (for example) B's perspective from A's pov * Consider if you switched povs in the scene, what would that add to the story? * Consider how you would switch povs (For example, I wouldn't switch every paragraph as that would be very jarring for me, but I might make one switch during the scene) * Write three versions of the scene: one from A's pov, one from B's pov, and one that switches between their perspective. This is time-consuming, but then you can compare and choose which you like better. Hope this helps! :)
My advice would be to focus on one POV, but have that POV character make observations and conclusions that convey, even if only to an extent, the thoughts of the non-POV character.
I don't switch POVs, but in the fic I'm currently working on, the only time I switch POV is at the end of a chapter that contains a scripted Team Flare encounter. The grunts are simply reporting back to the admins or Lysandre what happened on their mission, and the moment the higher ups leave the scene, the chapter ends. That said, I don't normally switch POVs and tend to stick to the protagonist's POV. It's easier for the readers (and myself) to keep track of what's happening if there's only one POV character. If you see me switch POVs, it's usually for the sake of plot.
First of all, congratulations on finding a beta! They're hard to find and worth their weight in gold. :) I also appreciate how thoughtful you are about your beta's advice. Yes, switching POV is something many readers dislike, even if they don't know enough about the craft of writing to say, "I don't like frequent switches of POV." What most readers are looking for when they read is immersion: that feeling when the outside world falls away and you're completely absorbed in a story. Every POV change requires a reorientation for the reader. It's like switching drivers in a car—it's hard to feel like it's a smooth ride when every few minutes, the car stops and the drivers switch. I've seen a few published writers pull off omniscient, but it's difficult to do well. A single POV is the preference for a lot of readers because it allows for immersion without breaks and deeper exploration of that character. Another advantage of staying in one POV is character voice. It's much easier to establish a character voice when we spend more time in the character's head and see other characters from their perspective. And it allows for mystery—either the smaller mysteries of how another person thinks, or a larger mystery like one character plotting against another. Readers are engaged by little puzzles like this. I like having multiple POVs in my writing, but I only switch at chapter breaks. My general rule of thumb is that there needs to be geographical, temporal, or emotional distance between the characters for multiple POVs to work effectively. Maybe also experiential difference: a child and his father, for example. I've read drafts where the writer chose to have multiple POVs where all the characters are in the same place at the same time with similar outlooks, and it was hard to see why multiple POV was chosen at all. The writer got all the disadvantages of the switches with none of the advantages. How to choose a POV character--the biggest factor for me is: who is driving this part of the story? Who has the most agency? Who is making the choices that affect the plot? Who is forced to reconsider their beliefs and embrace or reject changing those beliefs? For my WIP, I have one character, A, trying to heal character B, who is traumatized and hostile. Character B is not going to change for a while. He hates A and doesn't trust him and nothing A does is going to change that. A basically needs to keep B prisoner so he doesn't escape and die from his injuries in the gutter somewhere. So, who's POV did I choose? A. He's the one who has to make choices (keep B prisoner and traumatize him further, or let him go when he'll die without treatment?) He has to fend off B's attacks, make sure B stays put, come up with creative solutions to heal B while not getting murdered in the process. He also slowly realizes that the only way he'll get through to B is to be more honest and vulnerable with him—two things that are difficult for him, and will require him to change. When he finally chips away at B's hostility and B has internal change, then I'll have chapters from B's POV. Examples from my fic: The POV character (Hermione Granger) is looking at someone (Draco Malfoy) who she dislikes: >Malfoy's glamor had only changed his face to something less pointed and his hair to something less irradiated, but his stiff body language was still recognizable. He immediately ran his hands over his hair, checking for flyaways, as if a hair had any hope of breaking free of the gunk slathered on it. This is an extremely subjective description from the POV character. Most fans would argue that Draco Malfoy is attractive, but dislike for someone colors our perception. So we're getting insight into the POV character's feelings while also getting a description of another character. Here, Draco Malfoy is being extorted by the POV character, but he realizes something that will hurt her and give him an advantage: >Malfoy stopped fidgeting with his cuffs. He sat, almost unnaturally still, staring at the parchment as Griphook worked. > >A chill ran down her back. "What is it?" > >He gazed at her serenely. "Just making peace with the money I'm about to lose. It's different for me, Granger. I'm used to the better things in life." > >She found herself unable to shake a tightness in her chest. "No tricks," she warned. > >He raised his hands lazily. "It's an official Gringotts document. What could I do?" Hermione knows *something* is wrong, but won't figure it out until later. It heightens the sense of danger, because the danger is unknown. If I were switching POV between the two, we would know exactly what he's thinking, and that mystery would be gone.
The problem with the so-called head hopping tends to be that reader needs to constantly re-orient themselves to the new POV. Even if you clearly state who is thinking, the reader was 'seeing' the events from one character's POV. Suddenly being offered a completely different interpretation of what's going on makes them pause, so they can get into this new POV. And if it switches again in the next paragraph, there's another pause, and so on. They never have the chance to be properly immersed in the story. This might not affect you as the writer since you already know exactly what is going on with the characters. Third person omniscient might allow you to portray both of their experience, but it tends to create more distance between the reader and the story, so it's probably not the best fit to capture the intricacies of their respective perspectives. There's a lot of good advice on this thread what you might do instead. On the other hand, it's your story, so ultimately you are the best person to decide what you want to do with it.
Thank you everyone for all the comments, hints and ideas. You have all made some great points which I will consider. But as you also mentioned when I am writing my story I don't want to get repetitive. I feel that every written word, every details I share should have the purpose of driving the story forward. Revisiting scenes, having characters 'think' too much of stuff that happened in the past, often gets boring for me. I know there are ways to make that interesting but it feels tedious when constantly going back to the past to highlight the other character's POV. I will definitely try to work more with character A observing the 'thinking/feeling by body language, facial expression, and tone of voice' of the other characters going forward and to deliver that to the reader. And I will also consider more critically if character Bs POV is really needed for the story. I also liked the suggestion to write one scene from the different perspectives as a test and to really spend some time playing with the different perspectives and evaluating what benefit they bring to the story. Nevertheless, do you know good FF examples where POVs are switched? I would like to get a feel for how this is done in other stories. Also thank you for some book/author examples. I will check them out as well. Since despite all your valuable feedback I do still feel that some scenes (not all and not constantly) might benefit from a POV change.
I switch POVs like it’s my job (but it’s not cause I’m doing this shit for free). But yeah, I do switch whenever I feel the other character has more compelling thoughts or perspective, even if I’m the middle of a convo. I mark with *** when the POV switches. No one’s complained yet.
Thank you very much for your comment. I also wrote one story where I kept changing POVs and up to this moment no reader has complaint about that. Would it be possible for you to maybe share one of your examples? Are you on AO3 or another platform? I would like to get a feel for how others are doing it, to see how I could improve my own writing if I want to continue changing the POV.
You can check out my fanfic on AO3 if you want! Here’s a link [Claiming the Light - AsiraO](https://archiveofourown.org/works/53130709/chapters/134432659)
That’s what I do too… personally I think as long as it’s clear who’s “thinking”, this is fine. But generally… the idea of “rules” governing creative pursuits… meh. Obviously grammar and spelling matter… clarity matters… these things make your creative thing accessible, but hard and fast rules about structure are made to be broken if you ask me.
Thank you very much for your comment as well. Agreed, this is a way to express creativity and there are generally no rules to that... and I believe every way of writing a story will have people who like it and people who don't. Would it be possible for you to maybe share one of your examples? Are you on AO3 or another platform? I would like to get a feel for how others are doing it, to see how I could improve my own writing if I want to continue changing the POV.
I private messages you