In the newest insta post, Haein reiterated similar statements, and also added some other contexts. That they were together in high school, they broke it off because of their parents (unclear which sides or both), but during the training camp, they found they still had feelings for each other. Whether to take it at face value or not, that’s what she’s stating in her post.
Does anyone have a summary of what’s been going down? I used to be so on point in FS news but kinda took a step back after the women’s event at the last olys for the ol mental health. I used to adore haein lee but I will also support victims.
In May, the Korean National Team went to a training camp in Italy as preparation for the 2026 Olympics. While there, three national team members were investigated (two senior level female skaters for drinking, one junior level male skater to entering the female dormitory).
It was later revealed that Skater A (confirmed now to be Haein Lee) called Skater C (male minor skater) to the female dormitory. He has been reprimanded for this. Haein has received a three year suspension for sexual harassment of this male skater. Skater B (rumored to be Young You) was given a one year suspension for taking lewd photographs of Haein and sending them to Skater C.
Haein is now alleging that her contact with Skater C was consensual because they were in a relationship. It should be noted that there is an age gap at play here that leaves in question whether legal consent could be granted by Skater C.
Bless.
I don’t want to dox player c but if he is truly 13/14 that is gross to me. She would have been 18/19. I’m sorry but those are two entirely different developmental ages. I dated a 17 year old when I was 14 and I look back on it as one of my biggest regrets/ icks.
She turned 19 a month before camp and skater C is 15. (If it’s who it’s assumed to be, the other boys are older) So a 3.5 year gap. Obviously not great, but is that grounds for a 3 year ban? I think that’s pretty harsh if it turns out this was a consensual relationship.
It’s far from the worst figure skating age gap and if everything was consensual I feel bad for everyone involved but also why did you young take pictures of them!!
They were most likely drunk and fooling around, and since a and c were in relationship B thought it’s hilarious to take a sexy pic of A and send it to her bf. You young is like 20 so it doesn’t sound too wise of her but they’re all basically teens raised in a sheltered environment which is probably an echo chamber of people praising how talented and good athletes/stars they are so it does not sound too surprising imo
The suspension isn't about just that as far as just its sentencing itself goes. Remember that she consumed alcohol in the dormitory which is a direct violation of the training camp's rules, she even fully admitted that it happened on her Instagram. This also wasn't her first offense of drinking in this training camp.
Per their regulations, a repeated violation of consuming alcohol alone is a year long suspension minimum.
it was 19 and 16 in korean age!! Koreans did not count thier age as international age and follwed korean age for long time and the regulation(switch to internatinal age) chaged last year.
Oh I didnt know that korean curiosity. That's strange but ok. I said in another comment that a 4 year gap in a relationship is fine when both are adults but I also don't think it's anything out of this world for a 19-year-old girl to date a 16-year-old boy.
summary, from most to least offensive:
1. KSU refusing to do a proper news release and instead fuels an industry of conflicting rumor mills of half truths
2. Young You taking pics of Haein and her 3 years younger BF doing who knows what and sending them to the boy afterwards (is it that hard to just not do that?)
3. Young and Haein getting drunk at a training camp (everything in moderation, including moderation eh korean drinking culture is something else)
Actually B only took photo of A and sent it to C. They were most likely drunk and fooling around, and since a and c were in relationship B thought it’s hilarious to take a sexy pic of a and send it to her bf. You young is like 20 so it doesn’t sound too wise but they’re all basically teens raised in a sheltered environment which is probably an echo chamber of people praising how talented and good athletes/stars they are so it does not sound too surprising imo
C never said he felt uncomfortable, at least to the public's knowledge.
I think a lot is lost in translation. KSU said Haein Lee did something that could make C uncomfortable. We still don't know till this date how C felt, and honestly, that's a bit irrelevant.
I think that's very relevant. Their age gap is unusual, but not unreasonable. How C felt (that is, if this was a fully consensual act between a couple) completely changes how this should be perceived.
It's irrelevant in a sense that someone younger than 16's consent does not constitute consent in the eyes of the law.
But do I feel sympathy for Haein if they had been in a consensual relationship for a long time as minors, Haein had just turned 19 a month prior to the training camp, and C himself didn't feel uncomfortable? Then as a human being, yes.
> It's irrelevant in a sense that someone younger than 16's consent does not constitute consent in the eyes of the law.
Some jurisdictions do have "Romeo and Juliet" exceptions/clauses in their laws because they acknowledge that a 14-17 year old’s ability to consent to sexual activity with a partner similar in age to them *is* different to a 14-17 year old's ability to consent with a much older adult or an authority figure.
I'm not sure how it works in South Korea (I'd be surprised if they have it knowing that Korea is a very conservative country), but it is a thing, and I do have sympathy for them both if it is a "Romeo and Juliet" situation and not harassment.
What? No. Under no circumstances is it okay for a 16/17 year old to date a 13 year old. Have you met 13 year old kids, they are children. At this age even if it’s 3 years or 4, the gap is huge both physically and mentally.
I am so baffled and saddened. I don’t know what’s going on here but I’m disappointed. The justification are not justifications, they’re acting like we want her to go to jail forever or something but she clearly did something wrong.
I was going to say that maybe the people excusing her behaviour are themselves very young and don't realise how wrong it is, but in my experience teens are acutely aware of the gradations in maturity, physical and intellectual development, independence, etc. that determine social status at that age. At my school, an 18-year-old wouldn't have been caught dead "dating" a 14-year-old; those age groups simply never mixed and showing any interest in younger students would have opened you up to endless ridicule.
I suppose there are fewer boundaries of this sort between teenagers who don't go to a regular school and access social status based on athletic ability rather than seniority, but even so, the victim in question looked like a baby until 6 months ago. It's inconceivable to me that a girl of 17-18 would have wanted to date him. In fact, I remember when she posted about them being boyfriend and girlfriend on Instagram and this whole sub assured me it was just a joke. I guess now that it's come to this, her fans are scrambling.
Yes, I’ve heard of gross and exploitative relationships where one party was too young to be in that relationship, sure. So what?
Are you saying it’s okay for a 17-year-old to date a 13-year-old? Please be clear instead of giving bullshit equivocations about how you’ve heard of it happening “if nothing else.”
Yeah this is the key thing. Did C report this because he felt uncomfortable? Or did some adult catch them all drinking and feel like all of this was improper?
My point was more that, during the investigation, did he say he was uncomfortable or was he fine with it and someone in the fed just found it inappropriate. Those are different situations.
It's incredible how often people fail to remember that there is a strong precedent for institutions, especially conservative ones, to trump up charges against people they don't like for whatever reason. It could be a new, very PR savvy way of crushing bothersome skaters who complain about poor treatment.
I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but it's not a good idea to assume guilt on behalf of an alleged victim who has not really been given the opportunity to come forward, and is unlikely to do so. Are we really taking a skating federation's word for it?
Like I said before, KSU is not known to be transparent and fair. Two of their top speed skating skaters fled their country. The internal fight and cliques are very ugly. This investigation is strange, it should have involved the police. The truth could be either way. No one here listens to me.
A lot of people here think they have a conviction that this skater is guilty based on KSU's motive is wild, do some research about what happened to their top speed skating skater Viktor Ahn.
Kfans were speculating that C’s parents who are skating coaches didn’t want the drinking incident to sabotage their son’s career (future Olympic participation etc) so they pushed hard for the angle of their son being wronged so ksu can throw the girls under the bus.
I don't understand If skater c didn't mention the incident then who? were more skaters aware of the situation? is the ban official or does she have a chance to go to the Olympics?
The skaters involved are asking for a retrial (it hasn't been confirmed if the retrials are currently happening/had already occured) and so no one at this point knows whats going to happen or if these skaters would have a chance to go to the Olympics.
The fed first found out about the boy going into girls’ room and the drinking and during the investigation they found out about the photo of A sent to C and the incident that occurred.
As young teenager I was dating an older teenager, so in itself, an age gap between very young people doesn't bother me. As to whether or not anything was coercive or abusive in this relationship, of course there could be, as any relationship could be.
I don't and will never know the people involved personally, and I'm not and will never be privy to all the details of what happened. In light of that, I can only trust both the original investigation and the upcoming appeals process to be thorough and fair, and assume that the consequences and punishments are appropriate.
Thank you.
I'm quite disturbed by the pile on that is occurring relying on misinformation based on interpreting an English translation of a new article. It isn't even an accredited translation of the interview.
I'm not making any comment on what occurred until after the process has completed.
Just to add more context here, based on the Korean education system, Haein would have been in either her last or second to last year of high school at the time the relationship began, depending on the exact timing/what she means by "last year." (In her Instagram post she states, "he was my boyfriend last year when I was a high school student." It's unclear what she means by "last year." The Korean school year runs March to February, so if she meant last school year instead of last calendar year, this could be anytime between March 2023 and February 2024.)
If the C that is being floated around is correct, Haein and C are roughly 3.5 years apart in age, but this translates to 3 school grades apart given the school age cutoffs in Korea. Therefore, if she was in her last year of high school at the time (seems the most likely), in U.S. terms this would have been the equivalent of a senior dating a freshman. However, in Korea high school is three years, so she would have been in her last year of high school dating someone in their last year of middle school. (Note that a one-to-one translation from Korean middle/high school to U.S. middle/high school doesn't quite work because the ages are different—high school graduates are almost a year older in Korea than in the U.S., and you graduate middle school at 15.)
To be clear I am not trying to defend anyone! Just want to offer some context for Korea.
Fyi, high school dating someone in their last year of middle school in korea is not that absurd because 3 years gap couple is not that \*unusual thing also in korea. Couples usually meet in hagwon(academy).
I really liked Young but I’m just so bewildered as to why she would insert herself in this situation in such a (seemingly) terrible way??? I wonder what her statement will be like?
They were most likely drunk and fooling around, and since a and c were in relationship B thought it’s hilarious to take a sexy pic of a and send it to her bf. You young is like 20 so it doesn’t sound too wise but they’re all basically teens raised in a sheltered environment which is probably an echo chamber of people praising how talented and good athletes/stars they are so it does not sound too surprising imo
Unfortunately, many people in the younger generation do take nude and/or suggestive photos of themselves and/or others and then text them. The thought of doing anything of the sort, whether the dissemination is consensual or not when I was that ageI I find horrifying.
I don’t know what to make of this situation anymore.
When the news broke, I assumed that C made some kind of allegation about the incident not being consensual because otherwise a 3 year ban seems excessive. But now I’m wondering if that was truly the case. None of the articles and statements from KSU explicitly stated that C accused Haein of sexual harassment/molestation. Some people are rightly emphasising that a relationship doesn’t automatically mean that there was consent and I wholeheartedly agree. However, I think what she’s trying to say with that defense is that there was consent and if that’s the case that changes everything in my opinion. They’re in an age range where the 3.5 year gap is worth a side eye, yes, but not inherently abusive. What if KSU just saw explicit pictures and their age gap and proceeded to call it harassment/molestation without any allegation by C just because they didn’t know about the relationship and therefore didn’t think that C could have consented. Let’s also not forget the parents in this situation especially in C’s case. Korean society is very conservative and his parents probably speak for him in communication with the KSU as his legal guardian since he’s still a minor. If what Haein says is true they also didn’t know about the relationship and may have jumped to conclusions. Of course it’s still very possible that skater C made an allegation. In that case I’ll be the first to say that the ban is warranted but as things stand now it’s better to reserve judgement. Believing survivors is important but we just don’t have enough information to be sure that there is a victim. If KSU misjudged the situation and skater C consented, there is a young girl here whose reputation and career is being ruined over something that may have been innocent.
I agree with this, when the news first broke and it sounded like there had been sexual misconduct towards a minor I was like okay, this ban seems like a valid consequence. Now that new information has come to light it is maybe some re-evaluation is in order. The only thing is that due to skater C's age, it might be a scenario where even if he did give consent to Haein at the time, legally he might not be able to give consent and so by legal standards it is not counted.
However I will say that at those ages a relationship with a nearly 4 year age gap is a lot since there is such a difference of maturity (Haein can drink, legally buy a house etc and he's just starting high school). There's also a scenario where Haein might have thought he was okay with whatever was happening but it turns out he wasn't. We just don't know
You’re right. It’s definitely a highly questionable age gap even if it started out when they were minors. But developmental maturity can also vary by person at those ages. In my mind, she’s also still immature and a child even though technically an adult.
But yes, there could be many different scenarios. Like you said, maybe she just thought he consented when he actually didn’t. It’s just so hard to judge at this point without additional information.
Well, yes. This is not a legal case but it’s also not unlikely that that informed the Federation’s decision even if there was no allegation by C. In any case, this situation is very morally gray in my opinion which is why many countries have different Romeo and Juliet laws. Even if it’s illegal in Korea I doubt that it would be prosecuted if there was no allegation by C and happened in the context of a rekindled relationship given the ages of both parties. But I’m not a lawyer. Anyway, I appreciate your comment and I’m not trying to defend Haein. I just think it’s better to reserve judgement until we have enough information.
Haein is 20(Korean age meaning 19 internationally) which would mean skater c is 16 in Korean age(15 internationally) so legal in Korea I’m guessing
And at the time they were dating (before she turned 18 im guessing it wasn’t illegal)???
There were both minors when they dated so is it illegal
I don’t think so
It all comes down to ethics I guess
I just read on it, it seems they did. My bad
There’s still a lot of grey area I guess coming up because They dated at some point when they were both minors.
Idk let’s wait for the final verdict
One thing I haven’t seen people discuss is the power dynamics cause by Haien Lee being a bigger, more respected figure skater internationally than presumably Athlete C is, and maybe even nationally too. So, now we know that there was a relationship with Athlete C and a person who, in spite also being a minor, was significantly older(in my experience teaching between 14 and 18 year olds, although both are immature, 14 year olds are generally much more so) and more respected in their joint field. Those power dynamics make the former relationships really uncomfortable for me.
Be that as it may, if there is nothing illegal about the relationship before or now, or if Athlete C personally consented (even if he couldn’t legally consent until soon after the event), then a three-year ban does seem harsh.
The thing I’m stuck on, however, is that many of the former reports discuss the content as causing discomfort for Athlete C, which would make the actions illegal even if Athlete C was of age. I really want to believe Haien, but “It wasn’t assault, it was consensual” is a common excuse for people who are accused of what she’s accused of, and she has the benefit of getting her story out to her multitude of fans while Athlete C can’t corroborate or deny due to his age/status as the victim/anonymity.
Therefore, I’m waiting until the investigation is complete to see if Haien is exonerated or convicted (legally or just skating-wise).
From K dramas and general kpop idol observations, the senior/junior hierarchy in Korea also seems to come with a greater power imbalance vs maybe North America, as an example.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to speculate on the nature of their relationship. It’s a disaster waiting to happen with an age gap when she became an adult. Even if they both seemed or were comfortable, anyone could have decided they didn’t like it and reported it just due to the age gap alone.
Even if she was being truthful about this happening in the context of a romantic relationship, the fact that she was 17 dating a 13 year old is still so gross
It was a way to hint at Haein’s new program because it was the same theme as his or similar. Not a relationship announcement. Regardless, it could be him, but it is wild that people say it as a fact based on this one story that proves nothing. I assumed it was the guy at the camp a little over a year younger than her.
I'm not even sure it's that absurd. That translates to (in US terms) a High School Freshman and Senior dating. Not the most common thing, but not by any means unheard of either.
13 is 7th/8th grade and a junior/senior.
At that age, it’s completely different life stages and maturity levels. I know that the skating world views peers differently and age matters less but I would not be cool with someone who can drive picking up my young teenage child for a date.
Some kids start 9th at 13 in some US states (those that have late fall cutoffs and let kids start Kindergarten at 4 - I think is more common in the northeastern US).
I wouldn’t be cool with it as a parent either, but I think there’s a big difference between the parents disapproving and a fed giving the older skater a 3 year ban, if it’s true it was a consensual relationship between teens with a 3-4 year age gap.
Ah I thought you meant this was right now. I haven't been following this closely enough to figure out who the victim was (and I'm fine with preserving that anonymity).
4 years gap in a relationship is only okay when both people are adults. That's obviously not the case here so Idk why Haein thought this would be a good excuse.
Yeah I don’t know how people are defending this honestly. Just thinking about the difference in maturity between someone 13/14 to someone 17/18 makes it a huge gap. I think that’s a huge problem because it makes the power dynamics incredibly unhealthy.
It’s more like 3 years because A born in 2005 vs C born in 2008 and in the way Koreans count age, they’re always 3 years apart. And they started dating when they were both minors.
Teenagers in high school dating each other isn’t anything weird. It’s way more common for girls to date much older teens so the double standard here is based on sexism only.
Just because girls are often taken advantage of by older boys doesn’t mean it’s okay.
Using that to claim OP is sexist for criticizing a relationship between a 14 year old and an 18 year old is ridiculous.
Finally someone with common sense why is everyone under this post chill with a literal 15 y/o kid dating a grown adult who pays bills and can own a house, like what??
I don’t approve of the age gap, but you are heavily exaggerating here. Like yes 18/19 is an adult, but it certainly is not normal for 18/19 year olds to own houses.
I might be over doing it but I’m pointing out the difference of maturity by showing the responsibilities given to a 15 y/o and a 19 y/o. A 15 y/o can’t drive, they can’t drink, they can’t own, they can’t adopt. A 19 y/o can do all this (unless laws in Korea are different on these subjects, feel free to correct me) because they are considered mature enough.
Haein was caught drinking even when she knew the rule and that the punishment could be severe. I kinda don’t trust her integrity or her decision making regarding what’s appropriate or not, and I’m surprised at how many people are still trying to give her the benefit of the doubt about the incident or her past relationship with Skater C.
I don’t see anything but red flags in this situation. And I can’t imagine learning any details that would make me want the federation to continue funding her career & Olympic dreams when she was willing to jeopardize it all just to drink.
Edit: It doesn’t matter what we think about the rules against drinking. They are what they are and someone who chooses to break those rules when they were given the privilege of attending an overseas training camp is not someone I’m going to take seriously as a competitive athlete representing their country.
I would argue the alleged past relationship hurts her more. Don't Sporting organizations usually protect their top athletes, she wasn't, if they were in a relationship I feel like the Fed would have jumped at the opportunity to have an excuse to downplay the situation and give her a much lighter ban, like a year max.
For them to go 3 years and take her out of contention for the Olympics and potentially irreparably damage her career, I don't have confidence that this is just some silly technicality that she seems to be making it out to be.
We don't really know how KSU thinks or how much they'd protect their big names. It's pretty common for Asian bureaucracies like this to care primarily about saving face and distancing themselves from association with a scandal, and KSU also has a reputation for not being that invested in figure skating so they may not be motivated that much by medal chances here. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to just throw those involved under the bus and wash their hands of the situation.
Well, what is certain is that *if* the minor in question was below the age of 16, then she infringed the Korean law on sexual consent.
Personally I feel like if she was going to keep dating someone who's 16 or under after turning legal (which imo, is sorta morally dubious but I digress), then she should have made herself aware of what the jurisdiction foresaw in her case.
Haein denied that there was sexual misconduct, not that any sexual contact took place. I think her line of defense ("we were lovers") seems to be implying that there was. I'm also not sure why the KSU would lie and make the situation out to be something it's not, given suspending their top athletes wouldn't be in their best interest.
Feel free to take this with a grain of salt, but I’ll just say that “lovers” in English does have a pretty implicit sexual connotation whereas the word used in Korean - 연인 - does not share the same connotation, so I wouldn’t consider the word choice as an implicit admission of anything and I’d definitely avoid trying to read between the lines of translations. This is one example of many ways that translations be easily misinterpreted. Some have already stated that these statements are not quite captured correctly even if the translations are technically not INcorrect.
I don’t think one should be punished just based on implicit assumptions. If there’s proof, put it out. And if there’s no misconduct, then there’s nothing to be punished. If it’s against the laws to have any sexual contact with minors, then the laws should come in, not the union. There should be proper investigation and processes, not purely based on ksu own opinions.
I hear you but if they were willing to suspend one (two) of their best competitors, preventing her from getting to the next Olympics, I'm sure the punishment was decided on more than just 'implicit assumptions'. At the moment I don't think we have enough information to say that whatever happened happened against the boy's will, *but* according to the law he wasn't able to consent and I think that is where KSU is ultimately basing her punishment.
I am so sorry this is absolutely grim. The drinking isn’t the problem here and she knows it. Regardless of them both being minors, the 3 year age gap during teenage years is way too much. I hate to be this person, but as a woman, if the roles were reversed gender wise the response would be far far different.
I feel like I’ve entered the twilight zone. This sub is usually very liberal but people casually excusing 15/18or 19 is so dubious. At that age 3 years is a huge gap in terms of maturity. Leave aside the legality, it’s morally wrong. Simple. And saying highschool freshman and senior is not remotely a justification.
I hate to be this person too but if the genders were reversed the situation would be quite unambiguously wrong..
The "if the genders were reversed" does not really make sense to me here because... isn't it usually the other way? and it is like... such common and widely accepted phenomenon that it is practically a universal part of most people's high school experience??
Like when I read this, I was thinking "oof that sounds bad, but I guess I do remember being in high school and my friends dating people 2-3 years older and I didnt think it was weird"
from what I've seen a lot of the comments defending the teenage age gap were people themselves who had an older boyfriend when they were in high school. so I disagree, I don't think changing the genders would change that much here, since most people don't seem to be concerned much when it happens the other way
Why would it matter if they do? Haien hasn't been accused of or charged with any crimes, this isn't a legal matter, it's a figure skating federation disciplinary proceeding.
It’s crazy to me that people are now excusing her actions because she said she was in a “relationship” with the victim when he was 13-14. You guys are so pathetic.
Truly in what world does a 19 year old and a 15 year old seem acceptable? Even if they were both minors, I don’t find 13 and 17 or 14 and 18 acceptable or normal either. 3.5 years is such a drastic developmental difference as teens.
Thank you! I’m seriously losing my mind in here. 19 and 15 is wrong. 14 and 18 is wrong. Jesus, I feel like this people don’t interact with kids that age. They are very clearly children regardless of if they compete competitively and grow up in different circumstances.
nonsense. Everything is individual, you can fall in love at 13 years old, or with a person who is older than you.
Especially if they are in a closed figure skating bubble, where there is no noticeable age difference. If a person falls in love at the age of 13, this does not mean that he is a victim, he needs to be saved and pitied.
What can you even know about their relationship to call it wrong? Maybe they supported each other as athletes who exist within such a toxic and unfair sport. Anything can happen, but you have already decided for them that everything was wrong.
What the? Are you actually saying that there’s no noticeable age difference because it’s figure skating? That’s an insane justification and if a boy aged 16+ was using this justification to be with a child, would that be okay?
Nobody is saying the 13 yo is at fault! Of course they’re going to think they’re in love, it does not matter whether they are or not! It is the responsibility of the older person to draw the boundaries. I’m so utterly befuddled by this logic. Let me say again, have you met a 13 year old?? They are freaking kids!!!
. This is not taking away their agency, and this is not saying they can’t fall in love. This is simply to protect children from predatory behavior.
I actually said that it could be many variations in their relationship and he is not a victim only because he was 13. And yes, to live a life in a bubble is absolutely different than a normal life.
Why do you believe that she is a predator? Do you have more information than everyone?
Sexual assault/harassment is SO common in sports that this is not surprising. Her career is done. Korean society typically has a very high moral code and I can't see their federation welcoming her back after her suspension ends. Totally disgusting. Find someone your own age to date!
I knew it, there’s too much info not revealed at the beginning of ksu statement and it was very hastily concluded. It is unfair to the skaters themselves and everyone should be given a chance to speak for themselves and not just based off our judgement from one party’s (ksu) statement
As far as it’s been reported in Korea, he wasn’t the one who reported the incident. She was being looked into for drinking in the dorm during the training retreat and he was looked into for entering women’s dorm, both of which were against the regulations. That’s when this was discovered.
No, we don't know if the minor reported the incident. KSU was not aware of the situation until they investigated the drinking events. We can assume that C didn't come forward first, but perhaps he did after the investigation convened. We just don't have enough facts.
It's looking more and more plausible that C is also quietly devastated somewhere. I don't like this age gap either but if they had been dating for years, both as children surely it can't have been easy for them in the past few months?
I mean since she turned 19 and potentially realised she should stop seeing him. If she even did. But you'd think someone would have told her... Sorry I didn't explain properly.
No, I get what you are saying. We should be doing everything we can to protect minors from being groomed, but I think suggesting that teenage couples need to break up when the oldest becomes a legal adult otherwise the older is a sex offender is over-correction on this front.
Unless you are dating someone with the exact same date of birth as yourself, many teenage relationships will have a period where one partner is a legal adult and one is still legally a minor. My parents started dating at 16 and 14, so there was a period where my dad was an adult and my mom was legally a minor.
Many jurisdictions have “Romeo and Juliet” laws for this exact reason - there is a *huge* difference between consensual sex between young people of a similar age, and an authority figure or a significantly older person taking advantage of someone much younger than them.
I’m not a huge fan of the age gap either, but I am keeping in mind that they were both teenagers when the relationship started, were peers (ie; she wasn’t in a position of power/authority over him) and would have had a decent amount of common ground based on their experiences as elite athletes. It’s not like how a normal 32 year old working professional (for example) would have basically nothing in common with a 15 year old high schooler.
If she has sexually harassed him, that absolutely should be addressed, but it's highly likely that it was a case of two young people in a mutually consensual relationship that started to look messy when one of them turned 19 (the age of majority in Korea) while the other had not.
Im sorry but they are not peers. Especially at that age. Say she was 17 dating a 13 year old? How is that justifiable.
Blanket statements like think about all the other teenage couples don’t make sense when you think about how development works at that age. 13 is going through puberty, 13 is literally the youngest you can be as a teen. No one is saying teenage couples should be broken up either. A 17 yo dating an 18 yo is reasonable. Because both parties are peers here, they developed at similar rates at similar times. Nuance exists and here it is unambiguously wrong.
Imagine yourself at 13/14/15 and imagine yourself at 18/19. It’s not okay. Imagine a 19 years old boy dating a 15 yo girl? Wtf, that’s just not right at all.
I don't like the age difference, but I do acknowledge that two teenage elite athletes with shared experiences dating each other *is* different to a 32 year old pursuing a high schooler, and that’s exactly why Romeo and Juliet laws exist in many jurisdictions. They allow for nuance to be applied to situations where criminalising someone really doesn't make sense, and allows for the sex offender registry to be for serious matters, rather than it being trivialised by listing a ton of 18 year olds for having consensual sex with a boyfriend or girlfriend who is close to them in age but not yet 18.
I'm also considering my own experience. I was also was a high level athlete (in a different sport). I competed at some major Junior level international meets and was training to attempt Olympic qualification, but got injured at a meet and despite rehabbing the injury, I was not able to get back to my former level and always felt a "niggle" where I was injured. I was advised by medical professionals to retire from my sport if I didn’t want to live my adult life in permanent chronic pain where even walking short distances would be excruciating by the time I’m 30, so I quit at 18.
My experience as a high level athlete made me very mature for my age in some ways, but also very naive, sheltered and a bit immature in other ways. I didn’t experience a lot of things that are rites of passage for high schoolers in my country and most of my close friends were my teammates on the national team where there was a variety of ages, not classmates at school where the majority of my interactions would have been with people born within 12 months of me.
My best friend as a teen was was 3 years older than me. A teammate 3 years younger than me could well have been on a similar level of development and maturity to me in a way a classmate 3 years younger than me may not have been because of the way our experiences in sport shaped our development, so I was projecting some of my own experience, I’ll acknowledge that. It also depends heavily on the individuals involved and we don't know them enough to comment on that. I'm now 32 turning 33 in a couple of months, while I know social media has changed things a bit, I imagine there's still a pretty wide spectrum in personalities and maturity levels with teens. We even see that in skating. We often see 16 year olds in the Olympics clinging to stuffed animals (which makes a lot of sense to me as a former very sheltered high level athlete) while that would be unusual behavior to see at a high school meet sport meet.
I will also say that the relationship may not have even been sexual. Not all teenage relationships are. Sending photos doesn't always mean they are engaging in sexual relations.
Ok this is bonkers. Dopers get a slap on the wrist while teenage lovers light petting makes someone uncomfy so they reported as harrassment? Messed up. I think someone's out to get Haein Lee. She's the best female skater they got. N9t a good way to treat her.
I don’t understand why people are giving this so much thoughts. Teenagers are being messy teenagers so what? It’s not like any of them are actual full grown adults. Just move on, americans obsession with age gap relationships is insane when it comes to high schoolers.
Umm actually haein is 20 in korean age, attends college and is officially considered an adult here in korea. This is not a matter of teenagers, this is a matter of a grown woman being responsible for her actions.
So then he’s 17 in Korean age? Not really the naive child people keep saying. But I think it’s silly to judge people by their Korean age since they are 1 when they are born and depending on when born it can even be 2 years older than their “international age”. That doesn’t mean they have the mentality of someone that age. I think in these cases it’s better to stick with biological age and not some arbitrary age.
The reason I used korean age is because koreans usually understand "ages" depending on school grades when it comes to students. Korean schools start in March, and regardless of the month students in the same grade are all born in the same year. In normal situations, I WOULD use the international age. However, this case is more viewed as a case of a college student and a highschool freshman (adult and adolescent), rather than a problem of a 19 year old and a 15 year old.
She just said they were both in high school when they dated. 20 is still incredibly young. People never listen when actual grown adults, coaches are grooming young girls/boys but god forbid two young athletes have something going on. Just because someone turned a legal adult it doesn’t mean they are fully capable of thinking like one and it is genuinely insane that some people are portraying her as a sexual predator
They couldn't have both been in high school. They are three years apart in korean age, and in korea middle school is three years, and high school is three years. Also, what I mean by 'being responsible as an adult' is that when they starting dating again(obviously Haein being an adult and C still a student this time) Haein should have thought deeper about what her consequence now as an adult dating an adolescent. Though 20 may be young, even middle school and high school students here are well aware of how things would turn out in those situations. So Haein being young (20yrs) can't be justified.
It was genuinely very irresponsible how opaque the KSU was with this. People were and are actively calling You Young and Haein rapists. And putting the male skater in a very uncomfortable situation.
So Haein Lee says she's innocent and that's good enough for you? Did you extend that same grace to John Coughlin or Nikolaj Sorensen who denied the allegations against them? Or is it just the pretty girls that get to proclaim their innocence and are believed?
This is different and now i can say why I've refrained to comment so far and I can't "take a side" yet and believe the victim as I usually do: I'm not sure there is a victim. Nowhere was it ever stated that skater C reported this and that always sounded sketchy. For the record, that alone doesn't mean nothing wrong happened, but the whole situation is very cloudy. The other cases you mentioned have people strongly accusing the abusers and asking to be believed. It's unclear if that is what has happened in this situation. It's possible it is and the reason why we don't know is that skater C is being protected as a minor, but it's also possible that it's not the case.
Not every victim will consider themselves a victim. There are plenty of cases where the young victim is in love with their perpetrator and don’t want the relationship to end - quite common when one is being groomed actually (not saying that is what happened here)
Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 4.
>4. Be civil in discussing skating figures.
> Blunt criticism of skaters, officials, and other skating figures is welcome, but please remember to be civil even when being critical. Excessive hostility, body shaming/eating disorder speculation, degrading commentary, name calling, and ill-wishing are not. "I don't think XYZ deserved that score and ABC should have won over them?" Fine. "XYZ is trash garbage and I hope they fall four times?" Not fine. We will hand out 3 day suspensions for the first and second offenses under this rule, with a permanent ban on the third offense.
For anyone that can read Korean, is she implying it wasn’t SA/SH because they were in a relationship? Disgusting mindset if so.
(edit) The tweet says “but denies accusations of sexual harassment/assault claiming she and Junior Skater C were in a relationship.” There’s potential implication there that may be lost in translation. That’s why I asked for clarification.
No, that is not her argument. Those are two separate phrases that are being strung together by other people.
Haein's statement is that she acknowledges violating the anti-drinking rule and wants to make it clear she is very sorry. She is devastated at the thought of losing the opportunity to go to the Olympics ("my world has come crashing down"). However, she is strongly and firmly denying the claim of sexual harassment -- they were dating and she was very upset to read their relationship characterized as harassment by the news reports. She intends to appeal the sexual harassment charge.
In another interview, she said they started dating when they were both minors, and she only turned 19 (legal adult age in Korea) a month prior to the incident, so didn't quite understand the gravity of her actions.
No, that's not what she's saying or implying.
She's saying she engaged in normal behaviour of young people in a relationship.
If you don't know, I would hold back such dangerous phrasing of a question.
The most confusing thing about this to me is that she was not-so-secretly dating Ilia Malinin not too long ago. Wow, figure skating really is like high school!
As in the past, please refrain from speculating/mentioning the identity of skater C since they are a minor and have not come forward.
In the newest insta post, Haein reiterated similar statements, and also added some other contexts. That they were together in high school, they broke it off because of their parents (unclear which sides or both), but during the training camp, they found they still had feelings for each other. Whether to take it at face value or not, that’s what she’s stating in her post.
Yikes. Also, [here](https://x.com/seha_bk/status/1806097743993311440) is a English translation of her statement.
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Does anyone have a summary of what’s been going down? I used to be so on point in FS news but kinda took a step back after the women’s event at the last olys for the ol mental health. I used to adore haein lee but I will also support victims.
In May, the Korean National Team went to a training camp in Italy as preparation for the 2026 Olympics. While there, three national team members were investigated (two senior level female skaters for drinking, one junior level male skater to entering the female dormitory). It was later revealed that Skater A (confirmed now to be Haein Lee) called Skater C (male minor skater) to the female dormitory. He has been reprimanded for this. Haein has received a three year suspension for sexual harassment of this male skater. Skater B (rumored to be Young You) was given a one year suspension for taking lewd photographs of Haein and sending them to Skater C. Haein is now alleging that her contact with Skater C was consensual because they were in a relationship. It should be noted that there is an age gap at play here that leaves in question whether legal consent could be granted by Skater C.
Bless. I don’t want to dox player c but if he is truly 13/14 that is gross to me. She would have been 18/19. I’m sorry but those are two entirely different developmental ages. I dated a 17 year old when I was 14 and I look back on it as one of my biggest regrets/ icks.
She turned 19 a month before camp and skater C is 15. (If it’s who it’s assumed to be, the other boys are older) So a 3.5 year gap. Obviously not great, but is that grounds for a 3 year ban? I think that’s pretty harsh if it turns out this was a consensual relationship.
It’s far from the worst figure skating age gap and if everything was consensual I feel bad for everyone involved but also why did you young take pictures of them!!
From what I've read, it's unclear what kind of photo was taken, or whether it was a photo of them together or just photo of Haein.
They were most likely drunk and fooling around, and since a and c were in relationship B thought it’s hilarious to take a sexy pic of A and send it to her bf. You young is like 20 so it doesn’t sound too wise of her but they’re all basically teens raised in a sheltered environment which is probably an echo chamber of people praising how talented and good athletes/stars they are so it does not sound too surprising imo
The suspension isn't about just that as far as just its sentencing itself goes. Remember that she consumed alcohol in the dormitory which is a direct violation of the training camp's rules, she even fully admitted that it happened on her Instagram. This also wasn't her first offense of drinking in this training camp. Per their regulations, a repeated violation of consuming alcohol alone is a year long suspension minimum.
it was 19 and 16 in korean age!! Koreans did not count thier age as international age and follwed korean age for long time and the regulation(switch to internatinal age) chaged last year.
So was it actually only three years apart? I’m confused on Korean ages? 15 and 18 is still not ideal but not awful!
Yes it was 3 yr apart becaue koreans age when a year change. We grew up like that. Back then they were 16 and 19.
Oh I didnt know that korean curiosity. That's strange but ok. I said in another comment that a 4 year gap in a relationship is fine when both are adults but I also don't think it's anything out of this world for a 19-year-old girl to date a 16-year-old boy.
Thank you! Doesn’t Korean age start at conception? So cool!
I am not defending but seeing this as a dating 13yr is quite different and incorrect from what the actual situation was
summary, from most to least offensive: 1. KSU refusing to do a proper news release and instead fuels an industry of conflicting rumor mills of half truths 2. Young You taking pics of Haein and her 3 years younger BF doing who knows what and sending them to the boy afterwards (is it that hard to just not do that?) 3. Young and Haein getting drunk at a training camp (everything in moderation, including moderation eh korean drinking culture is something else)
Actually B only took photo of A and sent it to C. They were most likely drunk and fooling around, and since a and c were in relationship B thought it’s hilarious to take a sexy pic of a and send it to her bf. You young is like 20 so it doesn’t sound too wise but they’re all basically teens raised in a sheltered environment which is probably an echo chamber of people praising how talented and good athletes/stars they are so it does not sound too surprising imo
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C never said he felt uncomfortable, at least to the public's knowledge. I think a lot is lost in translation. KSU said Haein Lee did something that could make C uncomfortable. We still don't know till this date how C felt, and honestly, that's a bit irrelevant.
I think that's very relevant. Their age gap is unusual, but not unreasonable. How C felt (that is, if this was a fully consensual act between a couple) completely changes how this should be perceived.
It's irrelevant in a sense that someone younger than 16's consent does not constitute consent in the eyes of the law. But do I feel sympathy for Haein if they had been in a consensual relationship for a long time as minors, Haein had just turned 19 a month prior to the training camp, and C himself didn't feel uncomfortable? Then as a human being, yes.
> It's irrelevant in a sense that someone younger than 16's consent does not constitute consent in the eyes of the law. Some jurisdictions do have "Romeo and Juliet" exceptions/clauses in their laws because they acknowledge that a 14-17 year old’s ability to consent to sexual activity with a partner similar in age to them *is* different to a 14-17 year old's ability to consent with a much older adult or an authority figure. I'm not sure how it works in South Korea (I'd be surprised if they have it knowing that Korea is a very conservative country), but it is a thing, and I do have sympathy for them both if it is a "Romeo and Juliet" situation and not harassment.
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As I mention elsewhere, that's High School Senior to High School Freshman. Definitely not unheard of, if nothing else.
What? No. Under no circumstances is it okay for a 16/17 year old to date a 13 year old. Have you met 13 year old kids, they are children. At this age even if it’s 3 years or 4, the gap is huge both physically and mentally.
It's insane to me how gross the comments here are.
I am so baffled and saddened. I don’t know what’s going on here but I’m disappointed. The justification are not justifications, they’re acting like we want her to go to jail forever or something but she clearly did something wrong.
I was going to say that maybe the people excusing her behaviour are themselves very young and don't realise how wrong it is, but in my experience teens are acutely aware of the gradations in maturity, physical and intellectual development, independence, etc. that determine social status at that age. At my school, an 18-year-old wouldn't have been caught dead "dating" a 14-year-old; those age groups simply never mixed and showing any interest in younger students would have opened you up to endless ridicule. I suppose there are fewer boundaries of this sort between teenagers who don't go to a regular school and access social status based on athletic ability rather than seniority, but even so, the victim in question looked like a baby until 6 months ago. It's inconceivable to me that a girl of 17-18 would have wanted to date him. In fact, I remember when she posted about them being boyfriend and girlfriend on Instagram and this whole sub assured me it was just a joke. I guess now that it's come to this, her fans are scrambling.
right?!?! this comment section is nuts…
Yes, I’ve heard of gross and exploitative relationships where one party was too young to be in that relationship, sure. So what? Are you saying it’s okay for a 17-year-old to date a 13-year-old? Please be clear instead of giving bullshit equivocations about how you’ve heard of it happening “if nothing else.”
Your comment was removed because it was unnecessarily hostile or contained threats. Please keep all discussion kind.
Yeah this is the key thing. Did C report this because he felt uncomfortable? Or did some adult catch them all drinking and feel like all of this was improper?
He did not report her. The federation found out during their investigation of the drinking.
My point was more that, during the investigation, did he say he was uncomfortable or was he fine with it and someone in the fed just found it inappropriate. Those are different situations.
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........yes, that is what the comment you're responding to is saying.
It's incredible how often people fail to remember that there is a strong precedent for institutions, especially conservative ones, to trump up charges against people they don't like for whatever reason. It could be a new, very PR savvy way of crushing bothersome skaters who complain about poor treatment. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but it's not a good idea to assume guilt on behalf of an alleged victim who has not really been given the opportunity to come forward, and is unlikely to do so. Are we really taking a skating federation's word for it?
Like I said before, KSU is not known to be transparent and fair. Two of their top speed skating skaters fled their country. The internal fight and cliques are very ugly. This investigation is strange, it should have involved the police. The truth could be either way. No one here listens to me. A lot of people here think they have a conviction that this skater is guilty based on KSU's motive is wild, do some research about what happened to their top speed skating skater Viktor Ahn.
Kfans were speculating that C’s parents who are skating coaches didn’t want the drinking incident to sabotage their son’s career (future Olympic participation etc) so they pushed hard for the angle of their son being wronged so ksu can throw the girls under the bus.
Haein Lee has also just updated her IG with a statement.
I don't understand If skater c didn't mention the incident then who? were more skaters aware of the situation? is the ban official or does she have a chance to go to the Olympics?
The skaters involved are asking for a retrial (it hasn't been confirmed if the retrials are currently happening/had already occured) and so no one at this point knows whats going to happen or if these skaters would have a chance to go to the Olympics.
The fed first found out about the boy going into girls’ room and the drinking and during the investigation they found out about the photo of A sent to C and the incident that occurred.
As young teenager I was dating an older teenager, so in itself, an age gap between very young people doesn't bother me. As to whether or not anything was coercive or abusive in this relationship, of course there could be, as any relationship could be. I don't and will never know the people involved personally, and I'm not and will never be privy to all the details of what happened. In light of that, I can only trust both the original investigation and the upcoming appeals process to be thorough and fair, and assume that the consequences and punishments are appropriate.
Thank you. I'm quite disturbed by the pile on that is occurring relying on misinformation based on interpreting an English translation of a new article. It isn't even an accredited translation of the interview. I'm not making any comment on what occurred until after the process has completed.
Just to add more context here, based on the Korean education system, Haein would have been in either her last or second to last year of high school at the time the relationship began, depending on the exact timing/what she means by "last year." (In her Instagram post she states, "he was my boyfriend last year when I was a high school student." It's unclear what she means by "last year." The Korean school year runs March to February, so if she meant last school year instead of last calendar year, this could be anytime between March 2023 and February 2024.) If the C that is being floated around is correct, Haein and C are roughly 3.5 years apart in age, but this translates to 3 school grades apart given the school age cutoffs in Korea. Therefore, if she was in her last year of high school at the time (seems the most likely), in U.S. terms this would have been the equivalent of a senior dating a freshman. However, in Korea high school is three years, so she would have been in her last year of high school dating someone in their last year of middle school. (Note that a one-to-one translation from Korean middle/high school to U.S. middle/high school doesn't quite work because the ages are different—high school graduates are almost a year older in Korea than in the U.S., and you graduate middle school at 15.) To be clear I am not trying to defend anyone! Just want to offer some context for Korea.
Fyi, high school dating someone in their last year of middle school in korea is not that absurd because 3 years gap couple is not that \*unusual thing also in korea. Couples usually meet in hagwon(academy).
She mentioned being upset about a personal issue during four continents, I wonder if she was referring to this relationship.
This whole situation is awful.
So Young was the one who took the inappropriate pictures of Haein and showed them to skater C
That was clear from the beginning, and it was also 몰카(secretly filmed) without her knowledge or consent and then sent to C
I really liked Young but I’m just so bewildered as to why she would insert herself in this situation in such a (seemingly) terrible way??? I wonder what her statement will be like?
They were most likely drunk and fooling around, and since a and c were in relationship B thought it’s hilarious to take a sexy pic of a and send it to her bf. You young is like 20 so it doesn’t sound too wise but they’re all basically teens raised in a sheltered environment which is probably an echo chamber of people praising how talented and good athletes/stars they are so it does not sound too surprising imo
Right because drinking is one thing and I was defending it as a silly moment but this is just a whole different situation
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Unfortunately, many people in the younger generation do take nude and/or suggestive photos of themselves and/or others and then text them. The thought of doing anything of the sort, whether the dissemination is consensual or not when I was that ageI I find horrifying.
The account you replied to seems like a bot account. Let’s report it so they won’t infiltrate the sub further
I thought that it was said Skater B took non-consensual pictures of Skater A and then showed them to Skater C???
Skater B (Young) took a picture of Skater A (Haein) and sent it to Skater C. I haven't seen it reported anywhere that it was nonconsensual.
I don’t know what to make of this situation anymore. When the news broke, I assumed that C made some kind of allegation about the incident not being consensual because otherwise a 3 year ban seems excessive. But now I’m wondering if that was truly the case. None of the articles and statements from KSU explicitly stated that C accused Haein of sexual harassment/molestation. Some people are rightly emphasising that a relationship doesn’t automatically mean that there was consent and I wholeheartedly agree. However, I think what she’s trying to say with that defense is that there was consent and if that’s the case that changes everything in my opinion. They’re in an age range where the 3.5 year gap is worth a side eye, yes, but not inherently abusive. What if KSU just saw explicit pictures and their age gap and proceeded to call it harassment/molestation without any allegation by C just because they didn’t know about the relationship and therefore didn’t think that C could have consented. Let’s also not forget the parents in this situation especially in C’s case. Korean society is very conservative and his parents probably speak for him in communication with the KSU as his legal guardian since he’s still a minor. If what Haein says is true they also didn’t know about the relationship and may have jumped to conclusions. Of course it’s still very possible that skater C made an allegation. In that case I’ll be the first to say that the ban is warranted but as things stand now it’s better to reserve judgement. Believing survivors is important but we just don’t have enough information to be sure that there is a victim. If KSU misjudged the situation and skater C consented, there is a young girl here whose reputation and career is being ruined over something that may have been innocent.
I agree with this, when the news first broke and it sounded like there had been sexual misconduct towards a minor I was like okay, this ban seems like a valid consequence. Now that new information has come to light it is maybe some re-evaluation is in order. The only thing is that due to skater C's age, it might be a scenario where even if he did give consent to Haein at the time, legally he might not be able to give consent and so by legal standards it is not counted. However I will say that at those ages a relationship with a nearly 4 year age gap is a lot since there is such a difference of maturity (Haein can drink, legally buy a house etc and he's just starting high school). There's also a scenario where Haein might have thought he was okay with whatever was happening but it turns out he wasn't. We just don't know
You’re right. It’s definitely a highly questionable age gap even if it started out when they were minors. But developmental maturity can also vary by person at those ages. In my mind, she’s also still immature and a child even though technically an adult. But yes, there could be many different scenarios. Like you said, maybe she just thought he consented when he actually didn’t. It’s just so hard to judge at this point without additional information.
If C was 15 at the time, he would not have been legally of age (16) to consent. A 19 year old with a 15 year old is not legal in Korea.
Well, yes. This is not a legal case but it’s also not unlikely that that informed the Federation’s decision even if there was no allegation by C. In any case, this situation is very morally gray in my opinion which is why many countries have different Romeo and Juliet laws. Even if it’s illegal in Korea I doubt that it would be prosecuted if there was no allegation by C and happened in the context of a rekindled relationship given the ages of both parties. But I’m not a lawyer. Anyway, I appreciate your comment and I’m not trying to defend Haein. I just think it’s better to reserve judgement until we have enough information.
Haein is 20(Korean age meaning 19 internationally) which would mean skater c is 16 in Korean age(15 internationally) so legal in Korea I’m guessing And at the time they were dating (before she turned 18 im guessing it wasn’t illegal)??? There were both minors when they dated so is it illegal I don’t think so It all comes down to ethics I guess
Didn't they get rid of that age system and move to international age last year?
I just read on it, it seems they did. My bad There’s still a lot of grey area I guess coming up because They dated at some point when they were both minors. Idk let’s wait for the final verdict
I hope that skater C is feeling safe and protected during all this 💔
One thing I haven’t seen people discuss is the power dynamics cause by Haien Lee being a bigger, more respected figure skater internationally than presumably Athlete C is, and maybe even nationally too. So, now we know that there was a relationship with Athlete C and a person who, in spite also being a minor, was significantly older(in my experience teaching between 14 and 18 year olds, although both are immature, 14 year olds are generally much more so) and more respected in their joint field. Those power dynamics make the former relationships really uncomfortable for me. Be that as it may, if there is nothing illegal about the relationship before or now, or if Athlete C personally consented (even if he couldn’t legally consent until soon after the event), then a three-year ban does seem harsh. The thing I’m stuck on, however, is that many of the former reports discuss the content as causing discomfort for Athlete C, which would make the actions illegal even if Athlete C was of age. I really want to believe Haien, but “It wasn’t assault, it was consensual” is a common excuse for people who are accused of what she’s accused of, and she has the benefit of getting her story out to her multitude of fans while Athlete C can’t corroborate or deny due to his age/status as the victim/anonymity. Therefore, I’m waiting until the investigation is complete to see if Haien is exonerated or convicted (legally or just skating-wise).
From K dramas and general kpop idol observations, the senior/junior hierarchy in Korea also seems to come with a greater power imbalance vs maybe North America, as an example.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to speculate on the nature of their relationship. It’s a disaster waiting to happen with an age gap when she became an adult. Even if they both seemed or were comfortable, anyone could have decided they didn’t like it and reported it just due to the age gap alone.
I am not Korean and I dont know Korean culture. But in my country it is not considered appropriate for a 17 year old girl to date a 13 year old boy.
Even if she was being truthful about this happening in the context of a romantic relationship, the fact that she was 17 dating a 13 year old is still so gross
its 18 and 15 (3 years apart) and in korean age, 19 and 16
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we're talking about at the moment they started dating
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there was an instagram post a year ago tagging each other bf gf
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back then koreans used korean age so it was 19 and 16 anyway
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and she was a minor too
That instagram story was made as a hint of their new programs. Do you seriously think they would just announce it like that? No way.
That was a fan's guess at that time. The fact was they were tagging each other bf gf and made heart sign together with hands
It was a way to hint at Haein’s new program because it was the same theme as his or similar. Not a relationship announcement. Regardless, it could be him, but it is wild that people say it as a fact based on this one story that proves nothing. I assumed it was the guy at the camp a little over a year younger than her.
They were matching profile pictures of instagram private acc.
The maturity gap between 19 and 16 or 15 and 13 is a canyon. She should have ended the relationship immediately and found someone her own age.
did I miss something that confirmed his age?
People don’t want to identify the minor so it won’t be reported, but he had posted about her on his socials calling her his gf.
Then what I don't understand is why no action was taken before. Unless it all become illegal when Haein turned 19 so very recently?
That's right. It wasnt illegal when they started dating but became illegal when she turned 19 a month ago.
Ah right. So if they were still seeing each other it was bound to happen... training camp or not.
wait how do you know that this is for sure the age gap? or are you assuming who skater C is? i’m lost
They assume it base on a post that was hinting at their programs. Search for haein lee bf on google pics.
just saw 🤐
Has there been anything comfirming he is 13? I always assumed he was about 16?
He might have been 13 when they started dating not now. The youngest skater at the camp is 15.
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I'm not even sure it's that absurd. That translates to (in US terms) a High School Freshman and Senior dating. Not the most common thing, but not by any means unheard of either.
13 is 7th/8th grade and a junior/senior. At that age, it’s completely different life stages and maturity levels. I know that the skating world views peers differently and age matters less but I would not be cool with someone who can drive picking up my young teenage child for a date.
Some kids start 9th at 13 in some US states (those that have late fall cutoffs and let kids start Kindergarten at 4 - I think is more common in the northeastern US). I wouldn’t be cool with it as a parent either, but I think there’s a big difference between the parents disapproving and a fed giving the older skater a 3 year ban, if it’s true it was a consensual relationship between teens with a 3-4 year age gap.
I was 13yo when I started high school.
She was 19, right?
They were both underage when they started dating. Unclear when they started dating, however. Haein only turned 19 a month ago.
Wasn’t the camp held late May? Haein turned 19 in April so she was 19 then too.
Ah I thought you meant this was right now. I haven't been following this closely enough to figure out who the victim was (and I'm fine with preserving that anonymity).
4 years gap in a relationship is only okay when both people are adults. That's obviously not the case here so Idk why Haein thought this would be a good excuse.
Yeah I don’t know how people are defending this honestly. Just thinking about the difference in maturity between someone 13/14 to someone 17/18 makes it a huge gap. I think that’s a huge problem because it makes the power dynamics incredibly unhealthy.
It’s more like 3 years because A born in 2005 vs C born in 2008 and in the way Koreans count age, they’re always 3 years apart. And they started dating when they were both minors. Teenagers in high school dating each other isn’t anything weird. It’s way more common for girls to date much older teens so the double standard here is based on sexism only.
Just because girls are often taken advantage of by older boys doesn’t mean it’s okay. Using that to claim OP is sexist for criticizing a relationship between a 14 year old and an 18 year old is ridiculous.
Exactly this, and I can imagine people would view this very differently if it was a male older skater with a young teenage girl
Finally someone with common sense why is everyone under this post chill with a literal 15 y/o kid dating a grown adult who pays bills and can own a house, like what??
I don’t approve of the age gap, but you are heavily exaggerating here. Like yes 18/19 is an adult, but it certainly is not normal for 18/19 year olds to own houses.
I might be over doing it but I’m pointing out the difference of maturity by showing the responsibilities given to a 15 y/o and a 19 y/o. A 15 y/o can’t drive, they can’t drink, they can’t own, they can’t adopt. A 19 y/o can do all this (unless laws in Korea are different on these subjects, feel free to correct me) because they are considered mature enough.
real… bc like why are you dating someone who can’t even legally drink with you…
They were both minors when they started dating
If only if she could have to wait at the proper time.
Haein just posted several text message captured images on instagram story and I think the text message is between her and C...
Though they were dating, it doesn't mean that everything can be justified.
Haein was caught drinking even when she knew the rule and that the punishment could be severe. I kinda don’t trust her integrity or her decision making regarding what’s appropriate or not, and I’m surprised at how many people are still trying to give her the benefit of the doubt about the incident or her past relationship with Skater C. I don’t see anything but red flags in this situation. And I can’t imagine learning any details that would make me want the federation to continue funding her career & Olympic dreams when she was willing to jeopardize it all just to drink. Edit: It doesn’t matter what we think about the rules against drinking. They are what they are and someone who chooses to break those rules when they were given the privilege of attending an overseas training camp is not someone I’m going to take seriously as a competitive athlete representing their country.
I would argue the alleged past relationship hurts her more. Don't Sporting organizations usually protect their top athletes, she wasn't, if they were in a relationship I feel like the Fed would have jumped at the opportunity to have an excuse to downplay the situation and give her a much lighter ban, like a year max. For them to go 3 years and take her out of contention for the Olympics and potentially irreparably damage her career, I don't have confidence that this is just some silly technicality that she seems to be making it out to be.
We don't really know how KSU thinks or how much they'd protect their big names. It's pretty common for Asian bureaucracies like this to care primarily about saving face and distancing themselves from association with a scandal, and KSU also has a reputation for not being that invested in figure skating so they may not be motivated that much by medal chances here. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to just throw those involved under the bus and wash their hands of the situation.
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Well, what is certain is that *if* the minor in question was below the age of 16, then she infringed the Korean law on sexual consent. Personally I feel like if she was going to keep dating someone who's 16 or under after turning legal (which imo, is sorta morally dubious but I digress), then she should have made herself aware of what the jurisdiction foresaw in her case.
The thing is, what exactly constitute sexual? And she denied it, so why would anyone believe in one party (ksu) when one is neither parties 😅
Haein denied that there was sexual misconduct, not that any sexual contact took place. I think her line of defense ("we were lovers") seems to be implying that there was. I'm also not sure why the KSU would lie and make the situation out to be something it's not, given suspending their top athletes wouldn't be in their best interest.
Feel free to take this with a grain of salt, but I’ll just say that “lovers” in English does have a pretty implicit sexual connotation whereas the word used in Korean - 연인 - does not share the same connotation, so I wouldn’t consider the word choice as an implicit admission of anything and I’d definitely avoid trying to read between the lines of translations. This is one example of many ways that translations be easily misinterpreted. Some have already stated that these statements are not quite captured correctly even if the translations are technically not INcorrect.
I don’t think one should be punished just based on implicit assumptions. If there’s proof, put it out. And if there’s no misconduct, then there’s nothing to be punished. If it’s against the laws to have any sexual contact with minors, then the laws should come in, not the union. There should be proper investigation and processes, not purely based on ksu own opinions.
I hear you but if they were willing to suspend one (two) of their best competitors, preventing her from getting to the next Olympics, I'm sure the punishment was decided on more than just 'implicit assumptions'. At the moment I don't think we have enough information to say that whatever happened happened against the boy's will, *but* according to the law he wasn't able to consent and I think that is where KSU is ultimately basing her punishment.
I am so sorry this is absolutely grim. The drinking isn’t the problem here and she knows it. Regardless of them both being minors, the 3 year age gap during teenage years is way too much. I hate to be this person, but as a woman, if the roles were reversed gender wise the response would be far far different.
I feel like I’ve entered the twilight zone. This sub is usually very liberal but people casually excusing 15/18or 19 is so dubious. At that age 3 years is a huge gap in terms of maturity. Leave aside the legality, it’s morally wrong. Simple. And saying highschool freshman and senior is not remotely a justification. I hate to be this person too but if the genders were reversed the situation would be quite unambiguously wrong..
The "if the genders were reversed" does not really make sense to me here because... isn't it usually the other way? and it is like... such common and widely accepted phenomenon that it is practically a universal part of most people's high school experience?? Like when I read this, I was thinking "oof that sounds bad, but I guess I do remember being in high school and my friends dating people 2-3 years older and I didnt think it was weird" from what I've seen a lot of the comments defending the teenage age gap were people themselves who had an older boyfriend when they were in high school. so I disagree, I don't think changing the genders would change that much here, since most people don't seem to be concerned much when it happens the other way
Hmmm. My stance on it is that it’s weird either way. It’s wrong if it’s a boy and it’s wrong if it’s a girl.
Does Korea have “Romeo and Juliet law” exceptions?
Why would it matter if they do? Haien hasn't been accused of or charged with any crimes, this isn't a legal matter, it's a figure skating federation disciplinary proceeding.
you can still sue on the proceeding if it was fair.
I’m not saying it matters for KSU, I was just wondering if there the actual courts might get involved.
It’s crazy to me that people are now excusing her actions because she said she was in a “relationship” with the victim when he was 13-14. You guys are so pathetic.
Truly in what world does a 19 year old and a 15 year old seem acceptable? Even if they were both minors, I don’t find 13 and 17 or 14 and 18 acceptable or normal either. 3.5 years is such a drastic developmental difference as teens.
Thank you! I’m seriously losing my mind in here. 19 and 15 is wrong. 14 and 18 is wrong. Jesus, I feel like this people don’t interact with kids that age. They are very clearly children regardless of if they compete competitively and grow up in different circumstances.
nonsense. Everything is individual, you can fall in love at 13 years old, or with a person who is older than you. Especially if they are in a closed figure skating bubble, where there is no noticeable age difference. If a person falls in love at the age of 13, this does not mean that he is a victim, he needs to be saved and pitied. What can you even know about their relationship to call it wrong? Maybe they supported each other as athletes who exist within such a toxic and unfair sport. Anything can happen, but you have already decided for them that everything was wrong.
What the? Are you actually saying that there’s no noticeable age difference because it’s figure skating? That’s an insane justification and if a boy aged 16+ was using this justification to be with a child, would that be okay? Nobody is saying the 13 yo is at fault! Of course they’re going to think they’re in love, it does not matter whether they are or not! It is the responsibility of the older person to draw the boundaries. I’m so utterly befuddled by this logic. Let me say again, have you met a 13 year old?? They are freaking kids!!! . This is not taking away their agency, and this is not saying they can’t fall in love. This is simply to protect children from predatory behavior.
I actually said that it could be many variations in their relationship and he is not a victim only because he was 13. And yes, to live a life in a bubble is absolutely different than a normal life. Why do you believe that she is a predator? Do you have more information than everyone?
If it was a male adult skater and a young teenage girl I am pretty sure people on here would tear the adult skater to shreds
Exactly. Genuinely baffled right now.
Sexual assault/harassment is SO common in sports that this is not surprising. Her career is done. Korean society typically has a very high moral code and I can't see their federation welcoming her back after her suspension ends. Totally disgusting. Find someone your own age to date!
You can SA somebody even if you're in a relationship wtf
exactly… i don’t know why you’re being downvoted.
I feel so terrible for her.
I knew it, there’s too much info not revealed at the beginning of ksu statement and it was very hastily concluded. It is unfair to the skaters themselves and everyone should be given a chance to speak for themselves and not just based off our judgement from one party’s (ksu) statement
So to clarify, she was in a relationship with a minor and the minor is the one who reported the incident in Italy?
As far as it’s been reported in Korea, he wasn’t the one who reported the incident. She was being looked into for drinking in the dorm during the training retreat and he was looked into for entering women’s dorm, both of which were against the regulations. That’s when this was discovered.
No, we don't know if the minor reported the incident. KSU was not aware of the situation until they investigated the drinking events. We can assume that C didn't come forward first, but perhaps he did after the investigation convened. We just don't have enough facts.
no the minor wasnt the one who reported. the federation is the one who reported when they were investigating on drinking and entering female dorm
It's looking more and more plausible that C is also quietly devastated somewhere. I don't like this age gap either but if they had been dating for years, both as children surely it can't have been easy for them in the past few months?
well it was on national news and everyone-non figureskating fan- think shes a criminal so yeah
I mean since she turned 19 and potentially realised she should stop seeing him. If she even did. But you'd think someone would have told her... Sorry I didn't explain properly.
No, I get what you are saying. We should be doing everything we can to protect minors from being groomed, but I think suggesting that teenage couples need to break up when the oldest becomes a legal adult otherwise the older is a sex offender is over-correction on this front. Unless you are dating someone with the exact same date of birth as yourself, many teenage relationships will have a period where one partner is a legal adult and one is still legally a minor. My parents started dating at 16 and 14, so there was a period where my dad was an adult and my mom was legally a minor. Many jurisdictions have “Romeo and Juliet” laws for this exact reason - there is a *huge* difference between consensual sex between young people of a similar age, and an authority figure or a significantly older person taking advantage of someone much younger than them. I’m not a huge fan of the age gap either, but I am keeping in mind that they were both teenagers when the relationship started, were peers (ie; she wasn’t in a position of power/authority over him) and would have had a decent amount of common ground based on their experiences as elite athletes. It’s not like how a normal 32 year old working professional (for example) would have basically nothing in common with a 15 year old high schooler. If she has sexually harassed him, that absolutely should be addressed, but it's highly likely that it was a case of two young people in a mutually consensual relationship that started to look messy when one of them turned 19 (the age of majority in Korea) while the other had not.
Im sorry but they are not peers. Especially at that age. Say she was 17 dating a 13 year old? How is that justifiable. Blanket statements like think about all the other teenage couples don’t make sense when you think about how development works at that age. 13 is going through puberty, 13 is literally the youngest you can be as a teen. No one is saying teenage couples should be broken up either. A 17 yo dating an 18 yo is reasonable. Because both parties are peers here, they developed at similar rates at similar times. Nuance exists and here it is unambiguously wrong. Imagine yourself at 13/14/15 and imagine yourself at 18/19. It’s not okay. Imagine a 19 years old boy dating a 15 yo girl? Wtf, that’s just not right at all.
I don't like the age difference, but I do acknowledge that two teenage elite athletes with shared experiences dating each other *is* different to a 32 year old pursuing a high schooler, and that’s exactly why Romeo and Juliet laws exist in many jurisdictions. They allow for nuance to be applied to situations where criminalising someone really doesn't make sense, and allows for the sex offender registry to be for serious matters, rather than it being trivialised by listing a ton of 18 year olds for having consensual sex with a boyfriend or girlfriend who is close to them in age but not yet 18. I'm also considering my own experience. I was also was a high level athlete (in a different sport). I competed at some major Junior level international meets and was training to attempt Olympic qualification, but got injured at a meet and despite rehabbing the injury, I was not able to get back to my former level and always felt a "niggle" where I was injured. I was advised by medical professionals to retire from my sport if I didn’t want to live my adult life in permanent chronic pain where even walking short distances would be excruciating by the time I’m 30, so I quit at 18. My experience as a high level athlete made me very mature for my age in some ways, but also very naive, sheltered and a bit immature in other ways. I didn’t experience a lot of things that are rites of passage for high schoolers in my country and most of my close friends were my teammates on the national team where there was a variety of ages, not classmates at school where the majority of my interactions would have been with people born within 12 months of me. My best friend as a teen was was 3 years older than me. A teammate 3 years younger than me could well have been on a similar level of development and maturity to me in a way a classmate 3 years younger than me may not have been because of the way our experiences in sport shaped our development, so I was projecting some of my own experience, I’ll acknowledge that. It also depends heavily on the individuals involved and we don't know them enough to comment on that. I'm now 32 turning 33 in a couple of months, while I know social media has changed things a bit, I imagine there's still a pretty wide spectrum in personalities and maturity levels with teens. We even see that in skating. We often see 16 year olds in the Olympics clinging to stuffed animals (which makes a lot of sense to me as a former very sheltered high level athlete) while that would be unusual behavior to see at a high school meet sport meet. I will also say that the relationship may not have even been sexual. Not all teenage relationships are. Sending photos doesn't always mean they are engaging in sexual relations.
Ok this is bonkers. Dopers get a slap on the wrist while teenage lovers light petting makes someone uncomfy so they reported as harrassment? Messed up. I think someone's out to get Haein Lee. She's the best female skater they got. N9t a good way to treat her.
I don’t understand why people are giving this so much thoughts. Teenagers are being messy teenagers so what? It’s not like any of them are actual full grown adults. Just move on, americans obsession with age gap relationships is insane when it comes to high schoolers.
Umm actually haein is 20 in korean age, attends college and is officially considered an adult here in korea. This is not a matter of teenagers, this is a matter of a grown woman being responsible for her actions.
So then he’s 17 in Korean age? Not really the naive child people keep saying. But I think it’s silly to judge people by their Korean age since they are 1 when they are born and depending on when born it can even be 2 years older than their “international age”. That doesn’t mean they have the mentality of someone that age. I think in these cases it’s better to stick with biological age and not some arbitrary age.
The reason I used korean age is because koreans usually understand "ages" depending on school grades when it comes to students. Korean schools start in March, and regardless of the month students in the same grade are all born in the same year. In normal situations, I WOULD use the international age. However, this case is more viewed as a case of a college student and a highschool freshman (adult and adolescent), rather than a problem of a 19 year old and a 15 year old.
She just said they were both in high school when they dated. 20 is still incredibly young. People never listen when actual grown adults, coaches are grooming young girls/boys but god forbid two young athletes have something going on. Just because someone turned a legal adult it doesn’t mean they are fully capable of thinking like one and it is genuinely insane that some people are portraying her as a sexual predator
They couldn't have both been in high school. They are three years apart in korean age, and in korea middle school is three years, and high school is three years. Also, what I mean by 'being responsible as an adult' is that when they starting dating again(obviously Haein being an adult and C still a student this time) Haein should have thought deeper about what her consequence now as an adult dating an adolescent. Though 20 may be young, even middle school and high school students here are well aware of how things would turn out in those situations. So Haein being young (20yrs) can't be justified.
It was genuinely very irresponsible how opaque the KSU was with this. People were and are actively calling You Young and Haein rapists. And putting the male skater in a very uncomfortable situation.
Can we not cancel Haein Lee over this?
So Haein Lee says she's innocent and that's good enough for you? Did you extend that same grace to John Coughlin or Nikolaj Sorensen who denied the allegations against them? Or is it just the pretty girls that get to proclaim their innocence and are believed?
This is different and now i can say why I've refrained to comment so far and I can't "take a side" yet and believe the victim as I usually do: I'm not sure there is a victim. Nowhere was it ever stated that skater C reported this and that always sounded sketchy. For the record, that alone doesn't mean nothing wrong happened, but the whole situation is very cloudy. The other cases you mentioned have people strongly accusing the abusers and asking to be believed. It's unclear if that is what has happened in this situation. It's possible it is and the reason why we don't know is that skater C is being protected as a minor, but it's also possible that it's not the case.
Not every victim will consider themselves a victim. There are plenty of cases where the young victim is in love with their perpetrator and don’t want the relationship to end - quite common when one is being groomed actually (not saying that is what happened here)
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Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 4. >4. Be civil in discussing skating figures. > Blunt criticism of skaters, officials, and other skating figures is welcome, but please remember to be civil even when being critical. Excessive hostility, body shaming/eating disorder speculation, degrading commentary, name calling, and ill-wishing are not. "I don't think XYZ deserved that score and ABC should have won over them?" Fine. "XYZ is trash garbage and I hope they fall four times?" Not fine. We will hand out 3 day suspensions for the first and second offenses under this rule, with a permanent ban on the third offense.
For anyone that can read Korean, is she implying it wasn’t SA/SH because they were in a relationship? Disgusting mindset if so. (edit) The tweet says “but denies accusations of sexual harassment/assault claiming she and Junior Skater C were in a relationship.” There’s potential implication there that may be lost in translation. That’s why I asked for clarification.
No, that is not her argument. Those are two separate phrases that are being strung together by other people. Haein's statement is that she acknowledges violating the anti-drinking rule and wants to make it clear she is very sorry. She is devastated at the thought of losing the opportunity to go to the Olympics ("my world has come crashing down"). However, she is strongly and firmly denying the claim of sexual harassment -- they were dating and she was very upset to read their relationship characterized as harassment by the news reports. She intends to appeal the sexual harassment charge.
In another interview, she said they started dating when they were both minors, and she only turned 19 (legal adult age in Korea) a month prior to the incident, so didn't quite understand the gravity of her actions.
No, that's not what she's saying or implying. She's saying she engaged in normal behaviour of young people in a relationship. If you don't know, I would hold back such dangerous phrasing of a question.
Ouch. 3-year-suspension is career ending. If skater A isn't that well-known, just let skater A retire quietly. The talent in South Korea is deep.
Skater A is Haein Lee. She's one of their top girls...
She is very well known and won the silver medal 🥈 at Worlds in 2023.
The most confusing thing about this to me is that she was not-so-secretly dating Ilia Malinin not too long ago. Wow, figure skating really is like high school!
What??? When??? I read that Ilia has a girlfriend for almost 2 years.