Most of the Helsinki-Tallin cruises are staffed by estonians. The estonian service quality is lacking to say the least. Also it does not help that you were on a 22h cruise that is mostly used by drunks and people who are only there for the booze
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Estonian here. Not trying to defend us, shitty service is shitty service, but to explain why things are what they are.
Simply put we are not so developed thanks to soviet times. We got our freedom more-less 30 years ago and it's been a rocky road trying to catch up with the rest of the world. Thanks to what's happening in the world lately it's incredibly bad since wages are abysmal but everything costs as much as in Finland or western Europe.
Estonian here as well. I agree with the often shitty service unfortunately. But when comparing it to what it was even 10 years ago then we've come a long way already. More and more customer service people are better each day.
I've never took the 22 hours cruise for just getting booze, the "day in Tallinn" is enough for that. However people might combine trip to SuperAlko and party at the boat.
Yeah doesn’t help that some of us fins, atleast once in a lifetime go to tallin and get royaly shit faced. Like beyond torilla tavataan -mies /guinnes world record breaking drunk. And I think that is how some of the traumatized Estonians see us fins. To them were prolly all this guy https://www.is.fi/viihde/art-2000001183259.html
The stuff finns do here is hilarious though, people appearing in the harbour having lost their pants, some years ago someone woke up in a harbor xray machine.
I remember working in the harbor and these 2 guys tried to get their drunk friend on an escalator in a fkn shopping cart, once security stopped them, they just shrugged and flipped it over and left him on the floor.
There were news about a finn waking up in a trashcan, finnish women coming to bang our homeless people.
But hey, i went to visit a friend in Finland and woke up in a police station, i was so drunk i couldnt spell my name/bday/phone number anything, they said i kept screaming "mehu", i kind of remember sleeping in a very cold room. That seems like a lifetime ago now
The only time in my entire life I saw someone react negatively to mention of Finland or Finns was in Tallinn. I was at an antique store buying some glasses and asked how much they were. He didn't understand English and out of habit I asked if he spoke Finnish. I could have spat in his face and he could not have looked more annoyed. Luckily I spoke just enough Russian to buy the glasses and "smooth" things over.
So you're saying it's because they are Estonian and not just because they've been on a 22h cruise with a bunch of drunks. Do you stereotype whole groups of people on the regular? God forbid those people might have a different colour of skin and you get cancelled.
I used to work in Tallinn for a while as a consultant for a rather big company that I shall leave unnamed. But the job essentially involved analyzing the field and the competitors. Long story short, while some things were advanced and in some cases better than in my home country the customer service was abysmal to say the least. But the explanation always was "that's just a part of the culture".
I loved the country, fucking Mustmäe was a sweet place to live in and the people in general were very nice. But when it came to customer service it felt like everybody in the management chain in ANY company lacked the knowhow and the elbow grease to train people in the area.
It's not just that. Has to be a cultural thing as well.
No matter how well behaved you are most of the time you'll be treated very poorly. Exceptions exist of course.
Hehehe, Lithuanian here, I must confirm services are terrible here too, being talked to rudely is norm in somecplaces, I don't like it, but cannot blame a person that gets the minimal wage and has it's thoughts revolving around making the ends meet all the time....
Yes we are in EU now but for many people there is still long way to getting a control over their lives, they have to work their asses of.
Can confirm too. Just came back 3 days ago from Turku-Stockholm cruise on Viking Lines new ship Glory. Staff is friendly and helpful, and being rude to customers seems like a big "No No" for them. Definetly recommended.
As a Swede, I feel weirdly proud reading this. Apparently we are doing something right when it comes to customer service. On a side-note, that new Viking Glory looks pretty cool /u/CuBeDesToRoXz. Would love to try it out.
Just dont take it from Tallinn, it will be the same shitty workers and you will get attacked by drunken Estonians, there will be puke everywhere from 16 year olds going on a field trip, also no sleep because there will be loud noises. Oh and the cabins have this distinct smell of 20 years of cumulative puke that they just cant get out anymore.
Estonians get paid 3x less for the same work... Why people would work for Tallink is beyond me, just go work for Ekerö lol
We had TJ0 cruise to Sweden (get out of the military, go out drinking cruise). A middle aged dude asked me at the bar why so many young guys were on-board so I told him, why. He went all out "thank you for your service" called me the future of our nation, protector of our freedom and wanted to buy a drink to a veteran. I was visibly cringing and goddamn I felt awkward although quite drunk already.
On the return trip this quite stunning barmaiden called out and said "oh what will the nations future have" I was baffled. She then reminded me of the incident, and I cringed. Stood there chatting a bit and I was personally greeted everytime I went to the bar. It felt kinda good that they remembered me, one of hundreds of patrons and personalised the small talk.
Also once in the buffe we had a server who was in charge of our section. Absolutely brilliant man, funny as hell and made sure to get us drunk lol. Even came with beer in the morning to help with the hangover.
Sverigebåten has the greatest customer service I've experienced anywhere.
The staff is mostly estonian. Finns go to those cruises to get pissed and let loose. The staff is probably just sick of their jobs and add some cultural differences to it and that’s the outcome.
I don’t go on the Tallin cruise too often, but honestly my interaction with the staff have been okay. Not outstanding but never really negative. I remember the information desk guy on my most recent trip was a bit curt, but he looked tired and he was still helpful. The cocktail bar was fine for me too; I’ve seen friendlier bartenders but they weren’t really bad either. Always got the correct drinks, never was insulted, which count as a positive for me. (I’m also visibly not Finnish but I’m not sure if it actually matters).
That said I have pretty low standards for customer service to begin with, and I kinda expect them to not be super chipper while working on a cruise ship late at night.
Agree for the first part but I don't feel there is any noticiable cultural differences between Finland and Estonia. Estonian workers are just more fed-up, lower-paid and the service maybe not fully recovered from ENSV yet.
Estonian foremen are usually some Drill Sergeant Hartman shit aswell. Being service mind while having your boss hound you out for every question/mistake is not easy.
I must agree with my fellow commentators that estonian customer service (as in customer service performed by estonians) often at least feels / seems terrible. Don't know whether that actually is intended as bad service, or just a cultural thing. Do estonians themselves feel that the customer service performed by their countrymen is bad?
Until very recently I had an estonian working for me in customer service. The number of complaints she got was at least 10 times higher than average. A nice person, and I don't think she was rude intentionally, it just felt that way.
Lurking Estonian here. I've never been on cruises but saw someone else in this thread mention how cashiers in stores barely look at you – this is something I'm used to and comfortable with; in terms of customer service I don't really want to be spoken to more than is necessary, I just want to get my order or whatever and then be left alone. So perhaps this could be a cultural thing (or maybe the cruise ship people are just tired due to the nature of the job).
When it comes to cashiers, I totally agree with you. I'm genuinely s bit annoyed when the cashier says "have good day/weekend". This disease started to spread some 10 years ago, must've been some consultat who came up with that. Until then it as was "thankyougoodbye" (kiitti_moi).
So, I get you, but that's not what I'm talking about. It's a more comprehensive feeling that you as a customer annoy and bother them, and you should leave them alone. This happens at my regular lunch place for intance, (to me it feels like) I get a look that says "you again, what do you want" and a sigh, and then she barely bothers to charge me. That's all she needs to do, charge me. Not serve, not even hand out anything.
OR, and this has happened a LOT of times, you call a company (not to complain) for something, explain what you need (in a nice and friendly way I might add. I always do, 'cause I have some background in customer service myself), and the reply sounds at least to me like "yeah, so? [why are you bothering me with this]"
This has made me wonder and curious. Is it a language thing? Because I don't speak Estonian, all of these encounters have been in either Finnish or English. And no, I don't force Finnish on Estonians unless it's implied that it's the expected anguage (as in, you have called a company and "pressed 2 for Finnish")
Or is it cultural, in the same way that the Finnish lack of small talk or silent moments feel rude to an American? Our lack of small talk is neither intended nor percieved as rude by ourselves. Is that the way with estonian customer service as well, doesn't seem rude to you?
Or perhaps cultural in a way that bad customer service is the base line? You all know it's bad, but that's just what you expect?
For many years I thought it was just a deserved attitude towards Finns, since many of us "raindeers" as you call us, went to Estonia to get drunk and behave badly. I assumed this because I almost always got bad service, but the Estonians that I was in touch with otherwise were really nice people. However, later I have learned that this is not the case, or at least not the only reason.
That's how customer service feels in Romania as well and, to a lesser extent, in France (as a foreigner, at least).
I can't speak for Estonia, but for Romania, it's not that people like it, but they just take it a lot less personally. Bad customer service is usually ignored and only rarely maybe some friends would giggle about it or something. It's kind of like stopping at a red light...inconvenient, maybe even annoying, but you know it's not directed at *you* so most people don't mind that much.
And as a flipside, because of this, customers tend to be much more direct and assertive to get what they want. They'll scold or debate with customer service people. I used to be kind of horrified but I eventually realized that you have to be willing to do that if you want good service. I try to make myself nice but very assertive. None of this, "If it's not too much trouble, would you mind...?" because they'll always always always say no. But yeah it's kind of a cycle - because the customers are (have to be) rude and pushy, the service workers get more annoyed and reluctant to help, and it continues.
I wonder if part of it might be a post-Soviet thing (the similarities between Estonia and Romania), and part of it might be cultural (France and Romania have similar cultures). For example, am I right to suspect that Estonians don't openly mock or make fun of their customers the way French and Romanians do? I've had workers criticize/scold me for the shoes I wore in Romania (just normal sandals but it was like 18 degrees, so it was too cold to wear sandals apparently) and also had nurses laugh at me and imitate me to their colleagues when I was in labor.
If so, I suspect the grumpiness and reluctance to work is mostly the result of living in a destructured, post-Soviet economy, because that's something I haven't really noticed in western Europe or Nordic countries.
> I've had workers criticize/scold me for the shoes I wore in Romania (just normal sandals but it was like 18 degrees, so it was too cold to wear sandals apparently) and also had nurses laugh at me and imitate me to their colleagues when I was in labor.
Not the commenter you replied to but I'd be pretty horrified if this happened in Estonia. The only medical professionals I've known to make fun of their patients who are in pain/distress are Soviet-educated Russians.
It was pretty awful. Most Romanians are not like that but there are definitely a subset that are. But I'm sure they didn't turn out that way in a vacuum, so I mostly feel sympathy for them.
I think what you describe is a case of a person who has run out of fucks to give. It's rude, yeah, but from a, well, human point of view I understand it. Imagine you were stuck working this stressful job that doesn't even pay well with no end in sight (the no end in sight part is important, if you know something will end eventually it helps you deal with your current circumstances better), possibly working long stretches of time away from family, on a ship full of drunk people, lately with the pandemic also being a part of the equation. I know I'd be losing all will to live very soon. Doesn't mean it's any nicer to be on the receiving end of this person's rudeness of course, I've had someone (in Germany though) take their frustration out on me and it's not a good feeling if you're not doing anything wrong, regardless of their reasons.
The language barrier thing you bring up is a good point actually, it very well could be that if the person didn't speak English that well (especially if you also have a heavy accent, it's a lot harder to understand someone speaking with an accent when you aren't even a native speaker yourself). It could also be that the person "direct-translated" something they'd say in Estonian into English, and without the cultural context of speaking to Estonians in Estonian, it sounded rude. I'd need to have been there to be able to tell for sure, maybe if that person were spoken to in Estonian they'd respond differently.
Something I thought of btw, were the rude staff women? If you're a female service industry worker and especially if you work with drunk people, being "too friendly" (which can mean being *at all* friendly unfortunately) can get misinterpreted by the customers as an invitation to sexually harass you. Source: have female friends who have worked in the service industry.
Of course it could also just be that you've run into some rude people. I've only ever had pleasant (by my standards anyway) interactions with service and retail industry people in Estonia, in that no one was rude and people performed their jobs adequately and were helpful, but I'm sure bad service also exists in Estonia.
Estonian here. When I first time visited a smaller supermarket in Finland I was super weirded out by how friendly all the staff was. Even the janitor welcomed me. It made me uncomfortable at first. My social anxiety ass automatically assumed that I must be a burdon for them. I don't know why :D. I was really caught off guard by this because I was minding my own thoughts and didn't know how to respond which made me feel rude towards them. Things are just simpler in Estonia. No overly emotional interactions and just straight to the point.
I felt the same in Latvia. Like the customer service in Finland is quite cold compared to many places, but I still felt like the servers in Latvia were just rude and gave absolutely 0 fucks. There was one notable exception though.
Maybe it's just a baltics thing.
I mean, it's a shitty job and Estonians are pretty satisfied with this kind of customer service. It's a physical service they are providing, not to be polite, so to say - at least that is the sentiment in Estonia.
Most of the personnel on Tallink ships are Estonian. The Baltics are well known for shockingly bad service. Before covid I visited Riga, and if the cashiers at grocery stores even looked at me I considered that to be ok service. Of course there could be some language barrier as well. Some of the older Estonians might not know English that well.
Estonian customer service has a very bad reputation in Finland. Not only for cruise ships.
As a person who is in contact with a handful of estonian suppliers daily i can assure you that it is not only a problem limited to cruise ships.
Estonia can be a strange place. Beautiful buildings, rising economy, all that. But I just remember going into a restaurant (really nice "oldy" looking place), got served half raw chicken. The waiter brought us food and then just sat into the next table with some other waiters and their friends. Even lifted his feet on the table. WTF? I've never seen that.
>Why are the staff so rude?
Those ships have like 99% Estonian/ non-Finn staff. Estonians and other baltics are notorious for having a bad customer service. They aren't experienced for customer service work because of the history of their country (ex Soviet country -> zero tourism back in the day).
Thailand for example has a good reputation of having an excellent customer service. This is because they have been relying on tourism for decades. The situation is completely different for Baltic countries.
Soviet Union falls apart more than 30 years ago. It is almost 3 decades ago. Baltic countries have enough time to learn how to do it properly. Soviet Union hardly excuse them from doing their job properly. I bet that at least half of them was not even born when it was destroyed.
It might be that after decades of repression Estonia is building its national self-esteem. And it can sometimes go bit to far and saturate. For example, it wasn't long time ago when some Estonian business owner directly said that they don't need Finnish tourists, Finns suck and they have much wealthier and better customers now. Obviously that was just an opinion of one guy, but it did paint a picture.
They've maybe felt like "little brothers" of Finland so long, and now want to distance themselves. Same goes to Russian relations (before the whole Ukraine thing). Finland has been walking a tight rope for decades, but Estonia joined NATO and quite boldly said fuck you to Russia. I kind of felt that politically they could've been a bit more careful, since Russia is going to be there anyway and they probably would've needed to have business relations (again, before this Ukraine thing).
Maybe something like "I'm a big boy now and I have a friend called NATO, I can do whatever I want". Well, the population still is 1.3 million. Finland is tiny with 5.5 million people, so maybe we both should keep bowing to all directions.
The Soviet occupation is not an excuse in this because bad customer service is **absolutely not** something Estonians care about. If you don't care about something, you won't change it. Even reading this makes me feel that it's a Finnish problem, not our problem as Estonians.
>They aren't experienced for customer service work because of the history of their country (ex Soviet country -> zero tourism back in the day).
That's not how any of this works, what a stupid thought even...
Everyone shitting on Estonian customer service - please note that these people have to put up with drunk and inpolite tourists all day on a salary that no Finn would even bother getting out of bed for.
Not an excuse for bad customer service, just an insight.
Bad customer service in Estonia isn’t limited to 22 hrs booze-cruises. You can’t blame everything on drunk people, when you get as rude service in places where those drunken people never set foot. Of course there are some exceptions, I’ve enccountered friendly young staff in shoe and clothing stores. Maybe hotels and restaurants will catch up at some point.
Wanna know why? They found out 2 days ago that the ship is loaned to holland and they will all lose their jobs or move to other ships. Kinda kills the mood. Not your fault though
In Estonia we belive, what you give is what you get- Shitty attitude gives you always shitty service. Sometimes eaven good attitude gives you shitty service 😜
I also had bad experiences with customer service in estonia. I'm usually very easy going because I also work in customer service but I think estonians really deserved the title of "worst customer experience in my life"
Dour. Stern. Unwelcoming. Unhelpful. They're in a service job working as the head waiter in a cocktail bar, refusing to suggest/offer any cocktails. It's not service I've ever encountered in Finland in the 25 years I've been coming here. Seems to be a boat thing.
>cocktail bars or nice restaurants too often
Tbh, ferry bar is neither of those. Their list is extremely basic, unless bartender happens to want to humour you for extra.
I'm not the dude above the you, but I don't. The kind of places I frequent the bartender/owner/only employee insults you the moment you step inside, the beer tastes like cat piss, they have drinks named after innuendos and references to genitals, and the music is either sad men singing about lost love, or something that resembles the noise I imagine cats would make if you put them in a hydraulic press.
You know... Small town hole-in-the-wall, where it is considered a busy day if there is more than three customers, besides the regulars that passed out at the table the night before.
Sometimes randomly you see people working in Helsinki- Estonia ships that are super nice. I think that they have just started.
To be honest I usually haven’t had bad experiences as a not completely young Fin I am used to communicating in a level of beer - server gives price and I pay and transaction ends.
I've lived in Estonia for years and the customer "service" is always the same no matter the customers. Be a literal Jesus Christ in mainland Estonia and you will still be murdered with death stares and cold words.
That's bollocks. Why do you have such low expectations in life? Sounds quite sad really that you don't think people can have a job where they feel happy, proud, try their best. Your attitude sets a very low bar for society. At what point should we "expect" a service we're paying for and to what extent? I say/ask this working in a service environment where I and my colleagues go above and beyond.
How is your belief good for a competitive business and how would your business model survive/scale if it's known for bad service?
How are they low expectations? Getting along with customer service just isn't an important part of life for us. Perhaps we value other aspects in life instead? For me it sounds sad to care about getting along with customer service...
>you don't think people can have a job where they feel happy, proud, try their best.
What are you talking about even? This was not the argument. Their reason for not being overly polite is not that they don't feel happy, proud or that they don't try their best at their job, their reason is simply that being overly polite is not seen as a necessity neither by the customer service, nor by the clients.
>Your attitude sets a very low bar for society.
Your attitude sets a very low bar for cultural understanding.
>I say/ask this working in a service environment where I and my colleagues go above and beyond.
So do Estonians, getting along with customers is just not a huge part of it.
>How is your belief good for a competitive business and how would your business model survive/scale if it's known for bad service?
It's not considered bad service in Estonia, that's the point. Treat customers with moderate respect and nobody's going to care that you weren't excessively friendly - heck, people are more likely to appreciate the lack of fake friendliness.
Haha the exact same thing happened to me just a few days ago. I don't remember all the cocktails so then I asked her to make me something semi sweet and she totally rolled her eyes. I mean, wouldn't it be easier to everyone just to have menu. Also the lady at the info desk seemed to be really bothered when I asked a couple of questions. I don't think I have any reasons to take these 22h cruises in thr future, and also this one was just to go over to Estonia with a car and thought it would be nice to stay the night in the ship. Haven't been on a cruise ship to Estonia before so I guess I expected something similar as to Stockholm.
Heyoo you finns, lets talk about the "horrible" estonian customer service. Imagine you are making 1200 eur a month, your rent is 600 plus heating 120 a month, electricity 50, water 30, internet 30 and then you struggle trough your daily life. Where you really cant afford clothes or dentist. Would you be nice? Your average customer service person makes around 850 a month. They come to work with black eyes after weekend. 1200 makes stockmann customer service person.
En mö sano, ettö se on okei, mutta kun mä muutin suomeen pari vuotta sitten niin mö aluksi luulin, ettö kauppakassin neidit iskee muhuun, kun ne on niin ystävällisiä. Sit jossain välissä mä ymmärsin, että niiten elämä ei ole sitä samaa paskaa mikä virossa.
I disagree. I commented this in another comment as well, but I had an Estonian work for me. Same salary, same job description, same everything. According to herself she liked working with us. And still, the way she spoke to our customers felt very rude. I assume it's cultural, not intentional.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Estonia and Estonians, I just don't appreciate how their customer service makes me feel.
Sure, but what I meant was that it can't be explained by crappy life because of poor salary and living expenses. Or in my example, at least not crappier than what it is for our native Finns.
So cultural. Similar how we Finns might feel in America.
I think this is the answer I was looking for. Trying to explain it with salary, shitty conditions and whatnot doesn't explain my example with my estonian employee whom got 10X more complaints than the Finns with 100% same salary and other conditions.
Of course one individual represents herself only, but the way she spoke was very similar to my own experiences as a customer.
Yeah, it definitely justifies proving a terrible customer service. Let’s project our daily struggles to foreigners so they can truly experience Estonian culture!
Saying that doesn't help too much as we're comparing to Finnish salaries. Idk what that means in Estonia. It's also been a thing for decades around the country. Not a ferry issue
Yes, I would be nice. Why? Because I would like to move on in my job and not be serving drinks in my 50s. I would want to work for a company that values it's staff. I would not want to be old, bitter and resentful.
I'm not sure where you're from, but you've just had a taste of Soviet style customer service from an Estonian staff. When this is the cultural norm, you don't gain much from personally aiming higher.
It was the same in Spain in early 2000’s when I lived there. Our local friends warned us about the abysmal customer service and told us that it’s a tradition from the Franco era. If somebody was able to secure a job in retail or hotel/restaurant industry, the poor customers were practically just a nuisance.
No amount of smiling on the job is going to make you advancement opportunities in a dead-end customer service job, serving overpriced cheap cocktails to finnish booze cruisers.
Did you forget the /s?
In the real world they don't actually promote the bar service staff to captains. They are completely different lines of work. Well, unless the waiter takes a few years to go study and work on smaller ships then maybe they might have a shot at becoming a cruise ship captain. Or probably first some lower officer on the cruise ship first and progress from there.
Don't take the job if you can't do it properly. You life sucking isn't an excuse to be bad at your job. Who is even that mentally weak to let it affect you that easily? And how are you ever gonna make it to a better job/get promoted with a higher salary if you suck at your current job?
You have no idea what life is in Estonia, do you? I moved away for a reason. Here, you have safety of unions, social security and such. Back there, you can get fired for your boss having a shit day and the idea of getting a promotion is a joke. Trust me, i know, I lived there. Like, I appreciate your comment, but You are spoiled here.
That's no excuse to not do your job. If you work in customer service then it's your job to be nice to the customer. If you're not then you deserve getting fired when your boss has a shit day
So basicallý, being an ass in customer-service is because your life sucks? Guess what, in the happy "go west" land, we also have to strugle for a living
They are always legends to me but I don’t know if its fake memories from being pished or else they just like Irish people. Anyway in 10 years and so at least 40 cruises I have zero complaints
As a Estonian I have not had any issue on Tallink cruises :D But have you send any feedback to Tallink directly? I think they are sendinig also survey emails after the cruise.
But I believe its a cultural thing here and plus usually the customer service staff is not paid well and plus plus you have a lot drunk people on daily basis around you.
Estonian workers who are overworked with abysmal pay and they have to deal with shitfaced Finns who just assume everyone speaks Finnish. Most people don't even attempt to ask what language the staff is comfortable with... It's really embarrassing. :/
Source: my friend is Estonian and works on these ships.
> We went to a cocktail bar, **asked**
well there's your problem. I haven't had any bad experiences on the ships because I never go and ask for anything (on my 2 hour trips between the capitals).
Hah, but really.. I haven't encountered any "angry faces" so far, rather it's incompetence and that comes from lack of experience. I'm from a resort town here in Estonia and the thing I've encountered is "restaurateurs" hiring high school students on their summer break and not giving them (much) training. Rather employing them simply as transporters of food (although the food has always been superb).
Some other eastern european practices include: docking the waiter's pay (it's illegal by law) if a customer leaves without paying. Not that some 16-19 year olds would always know that it's illegal.
Recently I read an article about customer service from the perspective of the staff, again we're talking about 16-19 year old waiting staff. Some examples:
* a customer wanted to go to the kitchen to tell the chef how to make ramen
* a customer wanted a specific wine that the restaurant had run out of and wanted to go to the nearby shop, then bill the waitress for it
* a customer ordered an onion soup, but claimed to be allergic to onions so there couldn't be any onions in it
* a customer wanted a cocktail with tomato juice, had to repeat it twice to be sure, then threw a tantrum when he received it
... and indecent comments and/or groping and much more.
I have no explanation for it, but I have noticed the same, just recently on the Ferry from Helsinki to Travemünde, Germany. So I'm not buying that it's just an Estonian thing.
If you've ever been to slavic countries you'll notice it. Customer service style is one word and an angry look. And if they feel the interaction has been completed, they stop talking and wait for you to frig off. Iys fine if you're used to it, and know ehat to expect. Whilst Estonia isnt strictly a slavic country, influence is heavy, especially with the older folk. It's the same for example in Poland, where older folk follow this style, and younger are more European in general
Estonia was under Soviet Union for a long time, the old folk were forced to learn Russian etc. and in general integration was forced. Russia, being a slavic country would thus influence Estonian people. Happy to give a counter argument now that it's spelled out?
>Estonia was under Soviet Union for a long time
Estonia was illegally occupied by the Soviet Union. Soviet/Russian influence is **heavily** despised and actively cast off wherever possible. I suggest you to not spread ignorant statements like that online.
That's a bad excuse imo. Work in any pub environment and it's full of drunk people. Pubs in Helsinki don't have rude staff. It seems to be endemic in these cruise ships. If you don't like the job, find another!
Just because ppl are drunk is no excuse to be rude to a customer...
I have worked as a cashier on the Turku-Stockholm line plenty of drunks. Drunk or not you treat all customers with respect. Also do your best to satisfy/ and go above an beyond.
E.g. had a drunk guy fall over by my line I got up and lifted him back on his feet and made sure he was ok
I think it would also have to do with Finns and Estonian being pretty straight forward and flat/monotone. As an Aussie I through it was rudeness at first also. Add in shit pay and dealing with drunks all the time they just can't be arsed lmao.
If you cant handle super shitty service, avoid tallinn. One of the worst places ive visited. Rudeness, slow to service, no smiles, slow to bill. Its not only for finns. Id say its not only about the culture, i mean why would you be asshole as culture
That's normal and expected level of customer service. It's a shitty job, so no wonder the attitude is shit as well.
Alright it's not as bad everywhere, but i'd rather have ok level of customer service than some american style fake friendliness. My hair stands up by just thinkin about it.
Tbh guys in Finland the customer service is shit too. Kela and vero custom services are literally living in 1990s. Always need to wait \~1 hour for getting the customer service to you and still you can't get the answer what you want because they always say "I connect you with other person" and the other person doesn't know thing about it what you need or questioning. This is my customer service review from you guys. Horrible! How the hell the country services are so bad in there? Also what is ridiculous is your work speed.. i guess they are high asf all the time. I dont wanna protect anybody in Estonia but first of all you guys need to watch yourselfs in the mirror first and then complain about stuff.
Most of the Helsinki-Tallin cruises are staffed by estonians. The estonian service quality is lacking to say the least. Also it does not help that you were on a 22h cruise that is mostly used by drunks and people who are only there for the booze
Estonian customer service is what Finnish customer service was 30+ years ago.
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Estonian here. Not trying to defend us, shitty service is shitty service, but to explain why things are what they are. Simply put we are not so developed thanks to soviet times. We got our freedom more-less 30 years ago and it's been a rocky road trying to catch up with the rest of the world. Thanks to what's happening in the world lately it's incredibly bad since wages are abysmal but everything costs as much as in Finland or western Europe.
I understand perfectly. And the fact is, Finnish customer service used to be abysmal as well. Time heals all wounds.
Estonian here as well. I agree with the often shitty service unfortunately. But when comparing it to what it was even 10 years ago then we've come a long way already. More and more customer service people are better each day.
That’s what it still is in lapland lol
Based on what do you say that? Other than your personal racist preconceived notions?
Based on shit customer service, duh.
I've never took the 22 hours cruise for just getting booze, the "day in Tallinn" is enough for that. However people might combine trip to SuperAlko and party at the boat.
Yeah doesn’t help that some of us fins, atleast once in a lifetime go to tallin and get royaly shit faced. Like beyond torilla tavataan -mies /guinnes world record breaking drunk. And I think that is how some of the traumatized Estonians see us fins. To them were prolly all this guy https://www.is.fi/viihde/art-2000001183259.html
The stuff finns do here is hilarious though, people appearing in the harbour having lost their pants, some years ago someone woke up in a harbor xray machine. I remember working in the harbor and these 2 guys tried to get their drunk friend on an escalator in a fkn shopping cart, once security stopped them, they just shrugged and flipped it over and left him on the floor. There were news about a finn waking up in a trashcan, finnish women coming to bang our homeless people. But hey, i went to visit a friend in Finland and woke up in a police station, i was so drunk i couldnt spell my name/bday/phone number anything, they said i kept screaming "mehu", i kind of remember sleeping in a very cold room. That seems like a lifetime ago now
Lmso this is the eesti finland friendship we need. Comfortable being drunk out of their mind at each other's place.
Yeah, this is a recent example. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eesti/comments/vt0vv6
The only time in my entire life I saw someone react negatively to mention of Finland or Finns was in Tallinn. I was at an antique store buying some glasses and asked how much they were. He didn't understand English and out of habit I asked if he spoke Finnish. I could have spat in his face and he could not have looked more annoyed. Luckily I spoke just enough Russian to buy the glasses and "smooth" things over.
The only Finnish staff are the janitors
So you're saying it's because they are Estonian and not just because they've been on a 22h cruise with a bunch of drunks. Do you stereotype whole groups of people on the regular? God forbid those people might have a different colour of skin and you get cancelled.
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I used to work in Tallinn for a while as a consultant for a rather big company that I shall leave unnamed. But the job essentially involved analyzing the field and the competitors. Long story short, while some things were advanced and in some cases better than in my home country the customer service was abysmal to say the least. But the explanation always was "that's just a part of the culture". I loved the country, fucking Mustmäe was a sweet place to live in and the people in general were very nice. But when it came to customer service it felt like everybody in the management chain in ANY company lacked the knowhow and the elbow grease to train people in the area.
There is literally no training, they are just put on the spot and told to work :D
Customers will return anyway, plus many customers dont remember a shit after Tallin trip.
Estonian customer service is often horrible experience.
Is there anything contributing to this? Or a reason? Just curiosity
Mostly tired of dealing with Finns who are blackout drunk. Lol
It's not just that. Has to be a cultural thing as well. No matter how well behaved you are most of the time you'll be treated very poorly. Exceptions exist of course.
I mean they have shit pay and 99% of the time the customer is pissed out of their mind.
Fast development of country from communist regime to a democratic Nordic country. Some things from the USSR are still stuck.
>Nordic country. I'm going to stop you right there. Estonia cannot into Nordics.
Well, that's where its headed.
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We have never been in the USSR at all. We were under russia with the tsars....
They were talking about Estonia.
Baltic hospitality i guess.
Probably a mixture of dealing with drunks and a post-Soviet mentality if I had to guess
This
Hehehe, Lithuanian here, I must confirm services are terrible here too, being talked to rudely is norm in somecplaces, I don't like it, but cannot blame a person that gets the minimal wage and has it's thoughts revolving around making the ends meet all the time.... Yes we are in EU now but for many people there is still long way to getting a control over their lives, they have to work their asses of.
>Hehehe, Lithuanian here, I must confirm services are terrible here too, Isn't it both the level of wages and past remains from the Soviet Union?
Not in good restaurants in Tallinn. I would say it has been superb.
If you want a friendly crew, better take a cruise ship to Sweden instead. I can't explain it, either, sorry.
Yup, can confirm. Went to Stockholm from Turku two weeks ago, and the crew, cashiers, waiters, everyone was so friendly on both trips. Recommended.
Can confirm too. Just came back 3 days ago from Turku-Stockholm cruise on Viking Lines new ship Glory. Staff is friendly and helpful, and being rude to customers seems like a big "No No" for them. Definetly recommended.
Yup I can confirm too. Right now on ship
As a Swede, I feel weirdly proud reading this. Apparently we are doing something right when it comes to customer service. On a side-note, that new Viking Glory looks pretty cool /u/CuBeDesToRoXz. Would love to try it out.
Its mostly, like 99%, finns working on these boats (viking line) though. I worked there myself for about 6 years
Definetly try it out. Enjoyable trip.
Just dont take it from Tallinn, it will be the same shitty workers and you will get attacked by drunken Estonians, there will be puke everywhere from 16 year olds going on a field trip, also no sleep because there will be loud noises. Oh and the cabins have this distinct smell of 20 years of cumulative puke that they just cant get out anymore. Estonians get paid 3x less for the same work... Why people would work for Tallink is beyond me, just go work for Ekerö lol
We had TJ0 cruise to Sweden (get out of the military, go out drinking cruise). A middle aged dude asked me at the bar why so many young guys were on-board so I told him, why. He went all out "thank you for your service" called me the future of our nation, protector of our freedom and wanted to buy a drink to a veteran. I was visibly cringing and goddamn I felt awkward although quite drunk already. On the return trip this quite stunning barmaiden called out and said "oh what will the nations future have" I was baffled. She then reminded me of the incident, and I cringed. Stood there chatting a bit and I was personally greeted everytime I went to the bar. It felt kinda good that they remembered me, one of hundreds of patrons and personalised the small talk. Also once in the buffe we had a server who was in charge of our section. Absolutely brilliant man, funny as hell and made sure to get us drunk lol. Even came with beer in the morning to help with the hangover. Sverigebåten has the greatest customer service I've experienced anywhere.
Its baltic culture
The staff is mostly estonian. Finns go to those cruises to get pissed and let loose. The staff is probably just sick of their jobs and add some cultural differences to it and that’s the outcome.
I don’t go on the Tallin cruise too often, but honestly my interaction with the staff have been okay. Not outstanding but never really negative. I remember the information desk guy on my most recent trip was a bit curt, but he looked tired and he was still helpful. The cocktail bar was fine for me too; I’ve seen friendlier bartenders but they weren’t really bad either. Always got the correct drinks, never was insulted, which count as a positive for me. (I’m also visibly not Finnish but I’m not sure if it actually matters). That said I have pretty low standards for customer service to begin with, and I kinda expect them to not be super chipper while working on a cruise ship late at night.
*Tallinn
Agree for the first part but I don't feel there is any noticiable cultural differences between Finland and Estonia. Estonian workers are just more fed-up, lower-paid and the service maybe not fully recovered from ENSV yet.
Estonian foremen are usually some Drill Sergeant Hartman shit aswell. Being service mind while having your boss hound you out for every question/mistake is not easy.
I must agree with my fellow commentators that estonian customer service (as in customer service performed by estonians) often at least feels / seems terrible. Don't know whether that actually is intended as bad service, or just a cultural thing. Do estonians themselves feel that the customer service performed by their countrymen is bad? Until very recently I had an estonian working for me in customer service. The number of complaints she got was at least 10 times higher than average. A nice person, and I don't think she was rude intentionally, it just felt that way.
Lurking Estonian here. I've never been on cruises but saw someone else in this thread mention how cashiers in stores barely look at you – this is something I'm used to and comfortable with; in terms of customer service I don't really want to be spoken to more than is necessary, I just want to get my order or whatever and then be left alone. So perhaps this could be a cultural thing (or maybe the cruise ship people are just tired due to the nature of the job).
When it comes to cashiers, I totally agree with you. I'm genuinely s bit annoyed when the cashier says "have good day/weekend". This disease started to spread some 10 years ago, must've been some consultat who came up with that. Until then it as was "thankyougoodbye" (kiitti_moi). So, I get you, but that's not what I'm talking about. It's a more comprehensive feeling that you as a customer annoy and bother them, and you should leave them alone. This happens at my regular lunch place for intance, (to me it feels like) I get a look that says "you again, what do you want" and a sigh, and then she barely bothers to charge me. That's all she needs to do, charge me. Not serve, not even hand out anything. OR, and this has happened a LOT of times, you call a company (not to complain) for something, explain what you need (in a nice and friendly way I might add. I always do, 'cause I have some background in customer service myself), and the reply sounds at least to me like "yeah, so? [why are you bothering me with this]" This has made me wonder and curious. Is it a language thing? Because I don't speak Estonian, all of these encounters have been in either Finnish or English. And no, I don't force Finnish on Estonians unless it's implied that it's the expected anguage (as in, you have called a company and "pressed 2 for Finnish") Or is it cultural, in the same way that the Finnish lack of small talk or silent moments feel rude to an American? Our lack of small talk is neither intended nor percieved as rude by ourselves. Is that the way with estonian customer service as well, doesn't seem rude to you? Or perhaps cultural in a way that bad customer service is the base line? You all know it's bad, but that's just what you expect? For many years I thought it was just a deserved attitude towards Finns, since many of us "raindeers" as you call us, went to Estonia to get drunk and behave badly. I assumed this because I almost always got bad service, but the Estonians that I was in touch with otherwise were really nice people. However, later I have learned that this is not the case, or at least not the only reason.
That's how customer service feels in Romania as well and, to a lesser extent, in France (as a foreigner, at least). I can't speak for Estonia, but for Romania, it's not that people like it, but they just take it a lot less personally. Bad customer service is usually ignored and only rarely maybe some friends would giggle about it or something. It's kind of like stopping at a red light...inconvenient, maybe even annoying, but you know it's not directed at *you* so most people don't mind that much. And as a flipside, because of this, customers tend to be much more direct and assertive to get what they want. They'll scold or debate with customer service people. I used to be kind of horrified but I eventually realized that you have to be willing to do that if you want good service. I try to make myself nice but very assertive. None of this, "If it's not too much trouble, would you mind...?" because they'll always always always say no. But yeah it's kind of a cycle - because the customers are (have to be) rude and pushy, the service workers get more annoyed and reluctant to help, and it continues. I wonder if part of it might be a post-Soviet thing (the similarities between Estonia and Romania), and part of it might be cultural (France and Romania have similar cultures). For example, am I right to suspect that Estonians don't openly mock or make fun of their customers the way French and Romanians do? I've had workers criticize/scold me for the shoes I wore in Romania (just normal sandals but it was like 18 degrees, so it was too cold to wear sandals apparently) and also had nurses laugh at me and imitate me to their colleagues when I was in labor. If so, I suspect the grumpiness and reluctance to work is mostly the result of living in a destructured, post-Soviet economy, because that's something I haven't really noticed in western Europe or Nordic countries.
> I've had workers criticize/scold me for the shoes I wore in Romania (just normal sandals but it was like 18 degrees, so it was too cold to wear sandals apparently) and also had nurses laugh at me and imitate me to their colleagues when I was in labor. Not the commenter you replied to but I'd be pretty horrified if this happened in Estonia. The only medical professionals I've known to make fun of their patients who are in pain/distress are Soviet-educated Russians.
It was pretty awful. Most Romanians are not like that but there are definitely a subset that are. But I'm sure they didn't turn out that way in a vacuum, so I mostly feel sympathy for them.
I don't know where you've been in France but I've always found the French to be pretty good at customer service, just like Finns.
I think what you describe is a case of a person who has run out of fucks to give. It's rude, yeah, but from a, well, human point of view I understand it. Imagine you were stuck working this stressful job that doesn't even pay well with no end in sight (the no end in sight part is important, if you know something will end eventually it helps you deal with your current circumstances better), possibly working long stretches of time away from family, on a ship full of drunk people, lately with the pandemic also being a part of the equation. I know I'd be losing all will to live very soon. Doesn't mean it's any nicer to be on the receiving end of this person's rudeness of course, I've had someone (in Germany though) take their frustration out on me and it's not a good feeling if you're not doing anything wrong, regardless of their reasons. The language barrier thing you bring up is a good point actually, it very well could be that if the person didn't speak English that well (especially if you also have a heavy accent, it's a lot harder to understand someone speaking with an accent when you aren't even a native speaker yourself). It could also be that the person "direct-translated" something they'd say in Estonian into English, and without the cultural context of speaking to Estonians in Estonian, it sounded rude. I'd need to have been there to be able to tell for sure, maybe if that person were spoken to in Estonian they'd respond differently. Something I thought of btw, were the rude staff women? If you're a female service industry worker and especially if you work with drunk people, being "too friendly" (which can mean being *at all* friendly unfortunately) can get misinterpreted by the customers as an invitation to sexually harass you. Source: have female friends who have worked in the service industry. Of course it could also just be that you've run into some rude people. I've only ever had pleasant (by my standards anyway) interactions with service and retail industry people in Estonia, in that no one was rude and people performed their jobs adequately and were helpful, but I'm sure bad service also exists in Estonia.
Estonian here. When I first time visited a smaller supermarket in Finland I was super weirded out by how friendly all the staff was. Even the janitor welcomed me. It made me uncomfortable at first. My social anxiety ass automatically assumed that I must be a burdon for them. I don't know why :D. I was really caught off guard by this because I was minding my own thoughts and didn't know how to respond which made me feel rude towards them. Things are just simpler in Estonia. No overly emotional interactions and just straight to the point.
I felt the same in Latvia. Like the customer service in Finland is quite cold compared to many places, but I still felt like the servers in Latvia were just rude and gave absolutely 0 fucks. There was one notable exception though. Maybe it's just a baltics thing.
I mean, it's a shitty job and Estonians are pretty satisfied with this kind of customer service. It's a physical service they are providing, not to be polite, so to say - at least that is the sentiment in Estonia.
1. Estonian workers 2. Language barriers: that guy might know ~3 words of English.
Estonians speak good English especially if they work on a cruise ship
Most of the personnel on Tallink ships are Estonian. The Baltics are well known for shockingly bad service. Before covid I visited Riga, and if the cashiers at grocery stores even looked at me I considered that to be ok service. Of course there could be some language barrier as well. Some of the older Estonians might not know English that well.
I'm Australian and my Finnish friend said to me " You do all the takling, so we will get better service".
> You do all the takling Sir, please don't tackle the staff. That will not get you better service.
Aussie football all the way down the corridors!
Estonian customer service has a very bad reputation in Finland. Not only for cruise ships. As a person who is in contact with a handful of estonian suppliers daily i can assure you that it is not only a problem limited to cruise ships.
It is part of the experience.
Estonia can be a strange place. Beautiful buildings, rising economy, all that. But I just remember going into a restaurant (really nice "oldy" looking place), got served half raw chicken. The waiter brought us food and then just sat into the next table with some other waiters and their friends. Even lifted his feet on the table. WTF? I've never seen that.
Go to Stockholm/Mariehamn and you will get some of the best customer service ever!
>Why are the staff so rude? Those ships have like 99% Estonian/ non-Finn staff. Estonians and other baltics are notorious for having a bad customer service. They aren't experienced for customer service work because of the history of their country (ex Soviet country -> zero tourism back in the day). Thailand for example has a good reputation of having an excellent customer service. This is because they have been relying on tourism for decades. The situation is completely different for Baltic countries.
Soviet Union falls apart more than 30 years ago. It is almost 3 decades ago. Baltic countries have enough time to learn how to do it properly. Soviet Union hardly excuse them from doing their job properly. I bet that at least half of them was not even born when it was destroyed.
It might be that after decades of repression Estonia is building its national self-esteem. And it can sometimes go bit to far and saturate. For example, it wasn't long time ago when some Estonian business owner directly said that they don't need Finnish tourists, Finns suck and they have much wealthier and better customers now. Obviously that was just an opinion of one guy, but it did paint a picture. They've maybe felt like "little brothers" of Finland so long, and now want to distance themselves. Same goes to Russian relations (before the whole Ukraine thing). Finland has been walking a tight rope for decades, but Estonia joined NATO and quite boldly said fuck you to Russia. I kind of felt that politically they could've been a bit more careful, since Russia is going to be there anyway and they probably would've needed to have business relations (again, before this Ukraine thing). Maybe something like "I'm a big boy now and I have a friend called NATO, I can do whatever I want". Well, the population still is 1.3 million. Finland is tiny with 5.5 million people, so maybe we both should keep bowing to all directions.
Where is your backbone?
The Soviet occupation is not an excuse in this because bad customer service is **absolutely not** something Estonians care about. If you don't care about something, you won't change it. Even reading this makes me feel that it's a Finnish problem, not our problem as Estonians.
Maybe the reason you don't care about good customer service is because you've never experienced it.
Maybe our priorties where somewhere else, like building our country up again
>They aren't experienced for customer service work because of the history of their country (ex Soviet country -> zero tourism back in the day). That's not how any of this works, what a stupid thought even...
gonna take a shot in the dark and guess the staff is bad because the passengers are drunken idiots 98% of the time
Combined with corona years and people that left the business altogether
Everyone shitting on Estonian customer service - please note that these people have to put up with drunk and inpolite tourists all day on a salary that no Finn would even bother getting out of bed for. Not an excuse for bad customer service, just an insight.
Bad customer service in Estonia isn’t limited to 22 hrs booze-cruises. You can’t blame everything on drunk people, when you get as rude service in places where those drunken people never set foot. Of course there are some exceptions, I’ve enccountered friendly young staff in shoe and clothing stores. Maybe hotels and restaurants will catch up at some point.
Wanna know why? They found out 2 days ago that the ship is loaned to holland and they will all lose their jobs or move to other ships. Kinda kills the mood. Not your fault though
I guess you mean this? https://news.err.ee/1608669544/tallink-leases-two-ships-to-netherlands-for-temporary-housing
Your mistake was getting on Silja line instead of Viking line.
Yeah I do agree with this. I keep giving silja new chances, but viking is always best. The staff is nicer and the ship cleaner
Always Viking Line. Maybe Eckerö Lines too, I have no experience. Once so luxurious Silja Lines has been in a sad state for years now.
Viking line if you like kid's hour and less land time
I've been on Eckerö Line and it's alright
Silja was the better cruise line before Tallink bought them.
True but whats done is done.
In Estonia we belive, what you give is what you get- Shitty attitude gives you always shitty service. Sometimes eaven good attitude gives you shitty service 😜
":D"
I also had bad experiences with customer service in estonia. I'm usually very easy going because I also work in customer service but I think estonians really deserved the title of "worst customer experience in my life"
Angry face or just not smiling?
Dour. Stern. Unwelcoming. Unhelpful. They're in a service job working as the head waiter in a cocktail bar, refusing to suggest/offer any cocktails. It's not service I've ever encountered in Finland in the 25 years I've been coming here. Seems to be a boat thing.
Definitely a boat thing. Most of the staff is Estonian. Different service culture.
To my eyes he did perfect service. Clear answer, no chitchat, no fake smiles
Refusing to give suggestions is your idea of perfect service?
Say: Olut and he gives it to you
So you have a loooow bar of service and don't frequent cocktail bars or nice restaurants too often.
>cocktail bars or nice restaurants too often Tbh, ferry bar is neither of those. Their list is extremely basic, unless bartender happens to want to humour you for extra.
I'm not the dude above the you, but I don't. The kind of places I frequent the bartender/owner/only employee insults you the moment you step inside, the beer tastes like cat piss, they have drinks named after innuendos and references to genitals, and the music is either sad men singing about lost love, or something that resembles the noise I imagine cats would make if you put them in a hydraulic press. You know... Small town hole-in-the-wall, where it is considered a busy day if there is more than three customers, besides the regulars that passed out at the table the night before.
Sounds about right.
It's sad that people have such a low bar of service and people obviously hate their jobs.
Sometimes randomly you see people working in Helsinki- Estonia ships that are super nice. I think that they have just started. To be honest I usually haven’t had bad experiences as a not completely young Fin I am used to communicating in a level of beer - server gives price and I pay and transaction ends.
blame the customers. never ever seen so rude and bad behavior than in cruises in that ship
I've lived in Estonia for years and the customer "service" is always the same no matter the customers. Be a literal Jesus Christ in mainland Estonia and you will still be murdered with death stares and cold words.
It's culturally very weird that people expect something from customer service. It seems like such an overblown and unnecessary problem.
That's bollocks. Why do you have such low expectations in life? Sounds quite sad really that you don't think people can have a job where they feel happy, proud, try their best. Your attitude sets a very low bar for society. At what point should we "expect" a service we're paying for and to what extent? I say/ask this working in a service environment where I and my colleagues go above and beyond. How is your belief good for a competitive business and how would your business model survive/scale if it's known for bad service?
How are they low expectations? Getting along with customer service just isn't an important part of life for us. Perhaps we value other aspects in life instead? For me it sounds sad to care about getting along with customer service... >you don't think people can have a job where they feel happy, proud, try their best. What are you talking about even? This was not the argument. Their reason for not being overly polite is not that they don't feel happy, proud or that they don't try their best at their job, their reason is simply that being overly polite is not seen as a necessity neither by the customer service, nor by the clients. >Your attitude sets a very low bar for society. Your attitude sets a very low bar for cultural understanding. >I say/ask this working in a service environment where I and my colleagues go above and beyond. So do Estonians, getting along with customers is just not a huge part of it. >How is your belief good for a competitive business and how would your business model survive/scale if it's known for bad service? It's not considered bad service in Estonia, that's the point. Treat customers with moderate respect and nobody's going to care that you weren't excessively friendly - heck, people are more likely to appreciate the lack of fake friendliness.
Haha the exact same thing happened to me just a few days ago. I don't remember all the cocktails so then I asked her to make me something semi sweet and she totally rolled her eyes. I mean, wouldn't it be easier to everyone just to have menu. Also the lady at the info desk seemed to be really bothered when I asked a couple of questions. I don't think I have any reasons to take these 22h cruises in thr future, and also this one was just to go over to Estonia with a car and thought it would be nice to stay the night in the ship. Haven't been on a cruise ship to Estonia before so I guess I expected something similar as to Stockholm.
Dvid Mitchell on poor customer service https://youtu.be/YvqIxjRrmgs
he also did these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVEHqwLVvpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9cP-1kC3So for comedy anyway.
I think it's post soviet thing. A smile would make you seem untrustworthy and that kind of "cold" service is seen as dignified.
Heyoo you finns, lets talk about the "horrible" estonian customer service. Imagine you are making 1200 eur a month, your rent is 600 plus heating 120 a month, electricity 50, water 30, internet 30 and then you struggle trough your daily life. Where you really cant afford clothes or dentist. Would you be nice? Your average customer service person makes around 850 a month. They come to work with black eyes after weekend. 1200 makes stockmann customer service person. En mö sano, ettö se on okei, mutta kun mä muutin suomeen pari vuotta sitten niin mö aluksi luulin, ettö kauppakassin neidit iskee muhuun, kun ne on niin ystävällisiä. Sit jossain välissä mä ymmärsin, että niiten elämä ei ole sitä samaa paskaa mikä virossa.
I disagree. I commented this in another comment as well, but I had an Estonian work for me. Same salary, same job description, same everything. According to herself she liked working with us. And still, the way she spoke to our customers felt very rude. I assume it's cultural, not intentional. Don't get me wrong, I really like Estonia and Estonians, I just don't appreciate how their customer service makes me feel.
Like I said, first time I got decent customer service was in Finland :D. I dont appreciate how Estonian customer service makes me feel, either.
Sure, but what I meant was that it can't be explained by crappy life because of poor salary and living expenses. Or in my example, at least not crappier than what it is for our native Finns.
This "good customer service" that you expect seems *crazy* overly polite for Estonians.
So cultural. Similar how we Finns might feel in America. I think this is the answer I was looking for. Trying to explain it with salary, shitty conditions and whatnot doesn't explain my example with my estonian employee whom got 10X more complaints than the Finns with 100% same salary and other conditions. Of course one individual represents herself only, but the way she spoke was very similar to my own experiences as a customer.
I would do the job I had taken, so yes?
Yeah, it definitely justifies proving a terrible customer service. Let’s project our daily struggles to foreigners so they can truly experience Estonian culture!
And it the custom is a low-salary guy then he also gets to be a complete dick to the staff.
Saying that doesn't help too much as we're comparing to Finnish salaries. Idk what that means in Estonia. It's also been a thing for decades around the country. Not a ferry issue
Yes, I would be nice. Why? Because I would like to move on in my job and not be serving drinks in my 50s. I would want to work for a company that values it's staff. I would not want to be old, bitter and resentful.
I'm not sure where you're from, but you've just had a taste of Soviet style customer service from an Estonian staff. When this is the cultural norm, you don't gain much from personally aiming higher.
It was the same in Spain in early 2000’s when I lived there. Our local friends warned us about the abysmal customer service and told us that it’s a tradition from the Franco era. If somebody was able to secure a job in retail or hotel/restaurant industry, the poor customers were practically just a nuisance.
No amount of smiling on the job is going to make you advancement opportunities in a dead-end customer service job, serving overpriced cheap cocktails to finnish booze cruisers.
Wait, how do you get to be a cruise-ship captain then?
Did you forget the /s? In the real world they don't actually promote the bar service staff to captains. They are completely different lines of work. Well, unless the waiter takes a few years to go study and work on smaller ships then maybe they might have a shot at becoming a cruise ship captain. Or probably first some lower officer on the cruise ship first and progress from there.
No, I did not forget it, I just didn't put it there. Shame on me for thinking the joke was self evident.
Don't take the job if you can't do it properly. You life sucking isn't an excuse to be bad at your job. Who is even that mentally weak to let it affect you that easily? And how are you ever gonna make it to a better job/get promoted with a higher salary if you suck at your current job?
You have no idea what life is in Estonia, do you? I moved away for a reason. Here, you have safety of unions, social security and such. Back there, you can get fired for your boss having a shit day and the idea of getting a promotion is a joke. Trust me, i know, I lived there. Like, I appreciate your comment, but You are spoiled here.
That's no excuse to not do your job. If you work in customer service then it's your job to be nice to the customer. If you're not then you deserve getting fired when your boss has a shit day
Your \_job\_ is to be fucking nice - so yes, I expect it.
Are you sure they are hired to be nice?
So basicallý, being an ass in customer-service is because your life sucks? Guess what, in the happy "go west" land, we also have to strugle for a living
They are always legends to me but I don’t know if its fake memories from being pished or else they just like Irish people. Anyway in 10 years and so at least 40 cruises I have zero complaints
As a Estonian I have not had any issue on Tallink cruises :D But have you send any feedback to Tallink directly? I think they are sendinig also survey emails after the cruise. But I believe its a cultural thing here and plus usually the customer service staff is not paid well and plus plus you have a lot drunk people on daily basis around you.
Estonian workers who are overworked with abysmal pay and they have to deal with shitfaced Finns who just assume everyone speaks Finnish. Most people don't even attempt to ask what language the staff is comfortable with... It's really embarrassing. :/ Source: my friend is Estonian and works on these ships.
> We went to a cocktail bar, **asked** well there's your problem. I haven't had any bad experiences on the ships because I never go and ask for anything (on my 2 hour trips between the capitals). Hah, but really.. I haven't encountered any "angry faces" so far, rather it's incompetence and that comes from lack of experience. I'm from a resort town here in Estonia and the thing I've encountered is "restaurateurs" hiring high school students on their summer break and not giving them (much) training. Rather employing them simply as transporters of food (although the food has always been superb). Some other eastern european practices include: docking the waiter's pay (it's illegal by law) if a customer leaves without paying. Not that some 16-19 year olds would always know that it's illegal. Recently I read an article about customer service from the perspective of the staff, again we're talking about 16-19 year old waiting staff. Some examples: * a customer wanted to go to the kitchen to tell the chef how to make ramen * a customer wanted a specific wine that the restaurant had run out of and wanted to go to the nearby shop, then bill the waitress for it * a customer ordered an onion soup, but claimed to be allergic to onions so there couldn't be any onions in it * a customer wanted a cocktail with tomato juice, had to repeat it twice to be sure, then threw a tantrum when he received it ... and indecent comments and/or groping and much more.
I have no explanation for it, but I have noticed the same, just recently on the Ferry from Helsinki to Travemünde, Germany. So I'm not buying that it's just an Estonian thing.
Which ferry was it?
Finnlines
Ever since silja got bought by talink the service has gone downhill. I don’t know why
Sucks but also sorta understandable since the cruise is often packed with piss drunk Finnish people being idiots
These cruises are just a way for finnish drunks to get cheaper alcohol. It's not Titanic you know :D
Estonians still have that Soviet style way of serving. Everything is done efficiently and with a straight face.
They have to be Estonians. Been to Estonia and didn’t like it at all. I felt the way (also their culture) they do things was vey Soviet
Edgy.
Estonians are rude
Estonians are not rude. Estonians just don't expect customer service to be a getting-along service.
They are not. They're just tired of dealing with drunk Finns demanding everyone speaks Finnish with them.
We Finns and Estonians have more of a work mindset that fails to take customers service in consideration on like all parts of society.
Finnish customer service is excellent though.
If you've ever been to slavic countries you'll notice it. Customer service style is one word and an angry look. And if they feel the interaction has been completed, they stop talking and wait for you to frig off. Iys fine if you're used to it, and know ehat to expect. Whilst Estonia isnt strictly a slavic country, influence is heavy, especially with the older folk. It's the same for example in Poland, where older folk follow this style, and younger are more European in general
>Whilst Estonia isnt strictly a slavic country, influence is heavy Erm, no. You don't know what you are talking about.
Please do correct me then. Its no real use saying someone is wrong, without correcting them, so they can learn
Your entire argument bases on a claimed fact that has zero basis. *You* are the one who needs to support your argument...
Estonia was under Soviet Union for a long time, the old folk were forced to learn Russian etc. and in general integration was forced. Russia, being a slavic country would thus influence Estonian people. Happy to give a counter argument now that it's spelled out?
>Estonia was under Soviet Union for a long time Estonia was illegally occupied by the Soviet Union. Soviet/Russian influence is **heavily** despised and actively cast off wherever possible. I suggest you to not spread ignorant statements like that online.
maybe if pay shitty prices you get shitty service
Try living with narcissist Estonian neighbors and then you realize Why service is so bad...
Estonia cruise crew is tired of drunk finns I guess.
That's a bad excuse imo. Work in any pub environment and it's full of drunk people. Pubs in Helsinki don't have rude staff. It seems to be endemic in these cruise ships. If you don't like the job, find another!
For a sub that's so 'PC' and 'Woke' I'm really surprised to see all your casual stereotyping of Estonian people. /S
Maybe because ur foreign people
These cruises are full with drunk trashy finns hence staff is tired of everything. They have seen all sort of actions .
Just because ppl are drunk is no excuse to be rude to a customer... I have worked as a cashier on the Turku-Stockholm line plenty of drunks. Drunk or not you treat all customers with respect. Also do your best to satisfy/ and go above an beyond. E.g. had a drunk guy fall over by my line I got up and lifted him back on his feet and made sure he was ok
i had issues with the staff on the tallin side when i went to upgrade to a room rude and that was a couple years ago precovid
Tallinn*
I was on the Tallink Silja Europa cruise to Gotland. Had only good experience with the staff. Maybe because I spoke estonian to them
Sorry D:
I think it would also have to do with Finns and Estonian being pretty straight forward and flat/monotone. As an Aussie I through it was rudeness at first also. Add in shit pay and dealing with drunks all the time they just can't be arsed lmao.
If you cant handle super shitty service, avoid tallinn. One of the worst places ive visited. Rudeness, slow to service, no smiles, slow to bill. Its not only for finns. Id say its not only about the culture, i mean why would you be asshole as culture
Blame brexit. (Please dont, we have already shat the bed and now we are laying in it...)
Isn't there menus all over the cocktail bar?
I am legitimately going on the same ride tomorrow at 9 am. Just hoping it's not as bad as you thought. I'll update you on both trips just to tell.
That's normal and expected level of customer service. It's a shitty job, so no wonder the attitude is shit as well. Alright it's not as bad everywhere, but i'd rather have ok level of customer service than some american style fake friendliness. My hair stands up by just thinkin about it.
You would be rude too if you worked with low salary (Estonian) and needed to watch shitfaced finns your whole workday
It's what you'd expect in Tallinn itself if you go to thier markets
Tbh guys in Finland the customer service is shit too. Kela and vero custom services are literally living in 1990s. Always need to wait \~1 hour for getting the customer service to you and still you can't get the answer what you want because they always say "I connect you with other person" and the other person doesn't know thing about it what you need or questioning. This is my customer service review from you guys. Horrible! How the hell the country services are so bad in there? Also what is ridiculous is your work speed.. i guess they are high asf all the time. I dont wanna protect anybody in Estonia but first of all you guys need to watch yourselfs in the mirror first and then complain about stuff.