We could actually see a pro-gun US v Biden case, lol. His lawyers already said they would argue the prohibited person statute was unconstitutional under Bruen if he was charged.
Awkward day for antigunners.
Currently watching CNN argue that he should not have been charged because the 5th Circuit ruled this law unconstitutional, completely ignoring that the Biden DOJ is the one enforcing this law and asking the Supreme Court to overturn the 5th Circuit ruling. They are also trying to downplay it by saying it was just a revolver.
>it was just a revolver
POV I’m being arrested for mounting a ~~stolen~~ permanently borrowed GAU-8 on a Honda civic to clear traffic on my morning commute and tell the officer “it’s basically just a revolver”
You use "permanently borrowed" as a joke, but if you are under 18 in Canada, that is how you *legally acquire firearms*. You cannot be gifted them. That's a crime.
Edit: Per the GRC[RCMP] website:
>Does not allow: acquiring firearms, even as a gift.
>Does allow: *borrowing* non-restricted firearms
Did you know that if you turn the GAU8 around on your car and fire it backwards you can accelerate up to 200mph in about 30 seconds? Provided the frame doesn't rip apart
Even at Biden fuel prices, I feel like that is gonna be way more in ammo costs than you would save.
Could a Honda Civic carry both the gun and 30 seconds of ammunition?
Well I was talking about a car, but yes people aren't kidding when they say the A10 Warthog is just 2 bigass engines strapped to a bigass gun. It can only fire in bursts because it will otherwise stall the aircraft.
"Officer, it's no different from a washing machine. One spins to make stains disappear, the other spins to make traffic disappear. Really not that complicated."
Well problem is my washing machine spins half a turn clockwise and then half a turn counter clockwise. If you can make yours do that you're free to go.
> Awkward day for antigunners
Awkward day for his dad, arguably one of the biggest antigunners
My only question is going to be if Joe goes full nuclear and gives out a pre-emptive pardon to not only protect his son and his antigun agenda, but also try to keep any chance of Hunter turning on him for a plea deal
You can pardon before the conviction. There is a real question about if accepting the pardon is also admitting guilt that has never, to my knowledge, been tested. To be fair the pre-emptive pardon has never been tested by courts either, but since it would be Joe's pardon and his DoJ I doubt that would start now either.
Not an awkward day at all. Hunter Biden broke the law. He should be charged, found guilty, and given a fair punishment that matches other people who have been found guilty of the same crime. Donald Trump Jr should also be charged, but I don't think the left is as crazy fanatic as going after him for gun crimes as the right is for going after Hunter Biden over his gun crimes..
At least Donald Trump Jr.'s guide was charged... https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/05/21/utah-hunting-guide-faces/
And if it was ever discovered that Donald Trump Jr. or Donald Trump ever used an illegal narcotic while owning firearms, I hope all the same people who are adamant that Hunter faces justice also is adamant that the Trumps also face justice.
That's probably why they charged him with lying rather than (or on top of?) being a prohibited person. Martha Stewart approach.
This is why he was a dumbass for revealing his hand ahead of time.
I think the entire background check process can be challenged under Bruen. It is all unconstitutional. Plus, your 5th Amendment right says you don't need to be a witness against yourself, which the 4473 self-reporting definitely is.
I hope it all gets torn down.
Let's hope money-bags-Biden has the keesh to fight this and challenge the law.
Seems more politically viable to just cop a guilty plea and have dad pardon him on the way out. I think he'll take one for the team in exchange for "considerations."
I think pleading guilty to a felony is going to fuck up Biden's influence peddling businesses. I'd fight the law if I were him. He has the SCOTUS on his side here.
Does his on-paper identity even have much use anymore? He's drowning in child support accusation/debt and either way has a record of felony charges. His own identity is burned for any face-man position.
He is out of that business. First off, he lied about how much access he had to his dad, so he didnt help anyone do anything. And now he is being watched so closely its not worth the risk to try again.
If he is offered no jail time and a stop to all this nonsense he might take the deal. He was ready to take that deal before it got mucked up.
>I think he'll take one for the team in exchange for "considerations."
Oh you sweet summer-child... have you never encountered a narcissist before? If there is a reasonable and easy way to solve any problem, they will pretty much insist on doing the opposite.
If the world is rational, I would agree with you. But you have to consider that in this particular instance we are observing a very unusual legal alchemy. It's like in physics, "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" In this case, what happens when an unstoppable corruption encounters an immovable beaurocracy?
This is gonna be like Elon's April launch of the Starship. The only guarantee is excitement!
What happens if you answer yes and they hand it over anyway as a mistake or something? People overlook things and BG checks sometimes overrun their time. You can't be charged?
They can absolutely still charge you for felon in possession of a firearm or whatever type of prohibited person you are but you can't be charged for making a false official statement on the form.
Does it mean they have to ignore what you wrote? I mean if what you were compelled by the government to write led you to the circumstances of being apprehended that's fruit of poisonous tree no? In practice they will just parallel construct to fuck you.
History repeating?
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/doj-drops-charges-against-michael-flynn-barr
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/16/806525297/1-100-former-doj-employees-call-on-barr-to-resign-after-intervening-in-stone-cas
Exactly what I was thinking. I'm sure he's going to run for reelection, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if he announced he wasn't running again, or if he won, he'd serve the first year of his 2nd term and then resign.
And of course would pardon his son on the way out the door.
I hate whenever politicians are just allowed to do that. It seriously should have been stopped when Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon for Watergate. Anyone who is, or is directly connected to the presidency should be exempt from any pardons, commutation, or "miraculous backing down of the DOJ". Hit them with the full force of the law they claim to support and help build.
And honestly it's ours and our ancestors faults for letting it get that way. It should have been taken way more seriously, since now both sides of the aisle use how lax it was and the chance of getting sway with the crimes because we just ***allowed*** the president to pardon an ex-president for something he should have absolutely been given hell for. The highest office of our government does not need corruption, and we continue to allow it by saying things like this. If we want freedom and integrity in our nation, we need to hold every office in every branch of every single tier to the exact same standard. Allowing even one bit of corruption get swept under the rug because the next guy to hold the office was the previous guy's locker buddy muddies the water and allows any and all forms of governmental tyranny to be completely and totally acceptable in the eyes of those who want to get away with it.
Honestly, the Lt governor should have matched into the Governor office with the head of the state police and a few sheriff's and arrested her for treason
As much as id love to see the whole 4473 system shot down over this. Yeah i dont see him facing a real tangible punishment. Probabaly a 20 or 30 thousand dollar fine, some community service, but thats pocket change and a free art gala for him soooo.
Eh, the exposure this will get in the press with people googling about what a 4473 infraction is, and that will lead them to stories about people being treated at least as bad as a drug dealer because of typos. That's good press.
The ridiculousness of losing a constitutional right over plant possession is also good press.
The biggest shame is the context...he bought a gun while a prohibited person. After a big fight with his GF (his brother's widow he was banging since his wife threw him out for strippers and blow) over whether or not he was 'cuddling' inappropriately with his underage niece, she took his gun from his truck and threw it away in a public trash receptacle at a shopping center. After telling him what she did, he called his fixer at the secret service, and after they couldn't find it in the trash, and probably fearing it being found and used in a crime or a kid accidentally shooting someone, went to the FFL and demanded to see their records. He told them they didn't have the authority, and after a couple hours the ATF showed up and did the same. Taking the records the FFL was smart enough to copy.
I am concerned by alphabet agencies being his private cleaning crew than his federal crime of lying on a 4473. After all, as more states make weed legal, but make you provide ID that is recorded, how long until they cross reference the list and spot check 4473s to make everyone that bought some gummies in Vegas a prohibited person.
If you don’t think they’re already cross-referencing those lists, you’re crazy.
I’d go so far as to say that if someone in your household purchased legal weed with a scanned driver’s license, they know about it. Having firearms or NFA items registered to your address and someone living there being in possession of marijuana is a recipe for legal disaster.
Crazy that you can have a prescription for weed (from the state), and the same state will allow a firearm purchase knowing that they just helped break a federal law. Not to mention the racketeering aspect of manufacturing and selling the weed in the first place, especially while using digital transactions which require banks. The hypocrisy is just silly. Reschedule, decriminalize, and reform the 4473 so we can move on with the times.
But then how else would we selectively destroy the lives of common folk who are simply trying to live their lives, get through the day to day grind, and exercise their Constitutional rights? /s
I hope they can use this to strike down theis bullshit. I'm on a grand jury who indicted an old lady on this because she didn't realize her 20 year old DWI counted. She won the gun in a raffle and didn't even want it but was told she had to pick it up because of a different state law.
Iirc its your 3rd if within 10 years of your 2nd one(thats also 10 years within your first), at least thats how I remember it was in CA when I got my dui. After 10 years of clean driving it kinda "resets" and your punishment is as if it was your first time. If they are within that period they stack up and punishment gets worse and worse. I had an old guy in my program who was on his 8th dui since the 70s and never spent any real hard time in jail.
This is ofc assuming there wasnt an accident or something serious happen, just a basic pull over and arrest.
IIRC only need a majority, unlikely a guilty verdict. So he may not have voted to indict.
Grand jury basically is formality, and also a way for prosecutor to discretely drop a case (think police shooting) while appeasing the public by intentionally botching it and then saying "we tried."
They are pretty much a formality at this point and the defense has very little power in one, but, I understand why the constitution calls for them.
In theory, a grand jury protects citizens from the government weaponizing charges. The bare minimum to indict is pretty damn low but I’m glad it exists.
The constitution called for them because the general public could bring charges back then, which is arguably necessary property of a democratic republic as excluding the public means prosecutors can indefinitely protect tyrants and favored villians.
This. I didn't vote to indict but you only need 12 out of 23 to vote yes.
Ironically my cousin was murdered by police who tased him 12 times *after* he was hogtied hands and feet and the cops didn't get indicted because official cause of death was "excited delirium" which is a made up term by taser companies and not medically accepted
Grand jury is only looking at the possibility a crime was committed. Not an actual verdict.
Intent doesn’t really mean anything to a grand jury - you’re basically saying “well, it’s possible a crime was committed here, now I leave it to a jury to decide”
I would like our legal system to enforce all the gun laws that are on the books to stress test the system. I think it would be very illuminating for people who's knee jerk response to gun violence is to pass more gun laws.
Democrats are pushing really hard for Biden to not run again. So Hunter better hope he has a pretty speedy trial. It would be hilarious if he didn't get convicted till right after daddy leaves office.
I don't give a flying shit about Hunter. If he committed a crime, he should be held accountable. Justice should be meted out equally and fairly. It shouldn't matter if you're rich, poor, famous, tangentially important, or if it's an election year.
This is such a pussy crime though. Like, how many people have taken Adderall or some shit once in their life or maybe made a mistake, DUI some other bullshit. Now they can't EVER own a gun? That is literally what this says and yeah, its against the 2nd amendment. This is a bullshit political stunt and thats all.
My understanding is that it is an active user of drugs, not that you have ever used drugs. So if you are going to use drugs at some point in your life, just don't buy guns requiring a 4473 during the same timeframe.
I dont disagree with that at all. However, if you or I lied on an ATF form, we’d be seeing consequences.
It absolutely is political theater though. The GOP is intent on making Biden pay for Trump’s consequences. Meanwhile, they could be working on ways to roll back some of the dumb anti 2a laws that are out there.
Charged =/= convicted. He will do zero time and it will likely be pleaded down or tossed out entirely. No way the son of a sitting president does a single day in jail.
As they shouldn't for this type of 'crime'. This is such a shitty example of the law being upheld, was Hunter doing coke and shit? Yeah, probably. Can they 1000% without a shadow of a doubt prove that? No, not at all. Trump himself was literally snorting adderalls for debates. Should he be allowed to own a gun?
I think this was around when he was in rehab for come addiction. That meshed with a gun purchase around the same time is what they're likely going after.
So, Noel Caslers saying Trump used Adderall is all the evidence you need to form your opinion? Are there photos, videos, or audio recordings of Trump snorting Adderall?
I feel like this is going to end up in court being like the Lord of War interrogation scene.
“Soon there's going to be a knock on that door and you will be called outside. In the hall there will be a man who out-ranks you. First he'll compliment you on the fine job you've done - on you making the world a safer place. That you're to receive a commendation or a promotion. And then he's going to tell you that I am to be released. You're going to protest. You'll probably threaten to resign. But in the end, I *will* be released.”
Well, we dont have a justice system, we have a legal system. As there is hardly any justice and your wealth determines which laws pertain to you. Hell, have enough money and they'll write just about any law you want.
I’d rather not have the feds start prosecuting people for lying on that form. They rarely do unless the gun was used in another crime. Hunter Biden had the gun for all of 11 days.
If it were any one of us regular folk with no criminal history, we’d get a slap on the wrist if that. Hopefully it’s just a case of the DOJ wanting to prove that the POTUS / family isn’t above the law, but they really had to ignore their own norms to bring these indictments.
If they hadn't tried to get immunity for anything even remotely referenced in the document and the judge hadn't caught it, the sweetheart deal would be done.
Because the Judge sussed out that they didn't agree to the terms. The defense thought the deal was one thing and the prosecution thought it was another.
She was right to shoot it down, but not because it was too lenient (or not) -- but because they weren't on the same page.
Agreed that it's totally relevant.
Hunter isn't an elected official, sure but his daddy used his presidential powers to throw his son's gun crimes under a rug while making the lives of peaceful gun owners around the nation hell and making us out to be the problem.
It's never been about Hunter but how his dad abused his position of power to protect him and his legal mistakes while actively demonizing the rest of the responsible gun owners in the US for simply existing.
But who knows, maybe he'll be an unintentional champion of gun rights for us?
That's true for /r/politics as he's not a politician and they have oddly specific rules, but I really don't see how someone could make that argument here.
They do that here and on gun politics. I don't know if it's actually people who feel that way or bots because someone's status as an elected official only really matters if the topic is only meant to be about politicians.
because just the same. we'll talk about Kyle Rittenhouse and he's never been elected to anything either. I feel like it's their way of trying to make a clever talking point to hide that it's a tu quoque fallacy.
because without fail. if you even engage them at all they will eventually bring up Trump, first. and there's nothing. I hate more than an argument that we shouldn't care about something for some nebulous reason. We are allowed to care about whatever the flying fuck we care about no matter how big or small it is. We are not required to give anything an equal amount of attention as everything else.
and what's really funny is that a lot of them will say that they don't care, but you can quickly see through their post history that many of them have never posted in these subs before. so for some reason the fact that they don't care about hunter Biden is so important that they randomly travel to a sub and post on a thread about him. the person in which they do not care about.
Yeah. I don’t really care about Hunter Biden or what he does. The republican obsession with him has always been strange to me, but this is definitely relevant here.
Well, part of it is the Steisand Effect. Had they not tried to hide the laptop so hard, it wouldve likely been forgotten. They didnt try to hide the Tara Reade accusation and it became forgotten.
Nobody on the left gives a shit what Hunter Biden does or where he ends up.
Lock him the fuck up, imo, and I voted for his dad and probably will again (unless Haley gets the nod, then I might vote Republican).
And if his dad DOES get him off or get him a lighter sentence, then thats bullshit but it's unfortunately par for the course for politics across the board. But dont come in here saying that we on the left think he should get a pass for this.
They don't give a shit and don't care but will cry about gun shit like a bunch of hypocrite assholes. Their irony is not lost on me at all lmao. If the shoe was on the other foot they'd be freaking the fuck out about this and reeing to the sky and maybe not you but your camp is trying to give this shitbag a pass and downplaying it.
So yes, with the amount of downplaying or "who cares" from the same people who scream "the children!" I will absolutely come in here and call it how I see it even if it annoys you. Maybe tell your companions to have some consistency for once and stop being little simps for career shitbags.
It will ultimately go nowhere because of the New Orleans Court basically disqualifying the drug use questions on the 4473. This was likely either a politically motivated move calculated to absolve the current administration of taint from Hunter Biden's crimes or it was a strategic move to get the Biden team on the defensive before actual indictments with teeth come down.
As far asnI understand how that works, it only applies in their specific district, but I could be mistaken in how I interpreted the explanation of the ruling that I read.
I believe that you are correct; however, courts can use any jurisdictions case law as precedent and for guidance, iirc. I know that federal courts have used state case law precedents to determine issues and outcomes. I would think that federal case law would have some weight. Biden's defense team would be malpracticing not to cite it, all things being equal.
In my wildest dreams, this case will go down in history as the one that severely curtails not only the government's ability to decide who can buy what guns from whom, but also the one that gets cited to bring down the DEA's ridiculous drug scheduling scheme, because the government has no constitutional authority to decide what an adult puts in their own body.
Arguably, the DEA is the far more malevolent and harmful government agency. They wield ridiculous power, moreso than the ATF, are double the size of the ATF in both manpower and budget. The war on drugs has done more to drive the increase in violent crime than anything else.
If you want to do something about violent offenses committed with guns, stop allowing the DEA to enforce ridiculously unconstitutional laws and treat local law enforcement like fucking posse's and putting huge segments of the population in prison for the crime of getting high.
He will get convicted, with a light sentence at a country club jail. Then be pardoned very quietly by the next leftist in office if not his so called father when he leaves office.
And did nothing about the $20 mil in bribes…..surprise!!!! Oh and he’s suing the guys that released his laptop contents not including the kiddy porn. The same laptop they said was Russian disinformation. This entire thing is one big ass clown show.
And this is how the 4473 is found to be unconstitutional. I’m loving this. It’s a win/win. Biden squirms and we get rid of the 4473 when this is struck down.
One can wish.
Reality:
1. They find him guilty and fine him $500
2. There is at least one Biden supporter on the jury, and he' s either found not guilty or there is a hung jury. Remember, facts don't matter to D's, only feelings.
For me, it's out and about in town and at work and I will overhear people talking about it like it's not that big of a deal. Then you have online where it's just word salads and what aboutisms dancing around the fact that we have a two tiered justice system that absolutely won't see this shitheel get what he deserves because his dad will bail him out. The same dad who's administration is shutting down FFLs over literally typos "for gun safety" then soften up the court to give Coke Malone a better deal.
It's a fucking joke.
As a gun to sting liberal, I'd love to see more of this. You break the law, you get charged, no matter who you are or who you know. It's also interesting that it's gun related charges. Should make for some interesting bipartisan conversations.
I have to wonder how often this charge is actually used against anyone. It is against the law to be a drug user and buy a firearm. But they aren’t exactly giving drug test when you buy a gun either. I do think it is sad that Biden is so harsh on guns. Yet, he won’t have any problems defending his son for breaking the laws he put in place.
Good, rich criminals should be prosecuted like anyone else. Also, he should be prosecuted for me having to see his naked ass in all the pics from that hotel room. What a fucking tool...
They’ll have to prove in court that he was using drugs at the time he purchased and possessed it. That’s a bit tricky to do after the fact. These charges are typically pressed when someone is actively caught with both
We could actually see a pro-gun US v Biden case, lol. His lawyers already said they would argue the prohibited person statute was unconstitutional under Bruen if he was charged.
Awkward day for antigunners. Currently watching CNN argue that he should not have been charged because the 5th Circuit ruled this law unconstitutional, completely ignoring that the Biden DOJ is the one enforcing this law and asking the Supreme Court to overturn the 5th Circuit ruling. They are also trying to downplay it by saying it was just a revolver.
>it was just a revolver POV I’m being arrested for mounting a ~~stolen~~ permanently borrowed GAU-8 on a Honda civic to clear traffic on my morning commute and tell the officer “it’s basically just a revolver”
That bitch do be revolving
A lot.
What's it shoot? Money, it shoots money!
Dolla Dolla Bills go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
You use "permanently borrowed" as a joke, but if you are under 18 in Canada, that is how you *legally acquire firearms*. You cannot be gifted them. That's a crime. Edit: Per the GRC[RCMP] website: >Does not allow: acquiring firearms, even as a gift. >Does allow: *borrowing* non-restricted firearms
Did you know that if you turn the GAU8 around on your car and fire it backwards you can accelerate up to 200mph in about 30 seconds? Provided the frame doesn't rip apart
Haulin ass and burnin brass!! Edited**
I believe it retains the casings.
Noted, Ty!
> Provided the frame doesn't rip apart More like provided your car can physically fit enough ammo to continuously fire that beast for 30 seconds.
That's the trick. There's a cost benefit ratio that heavily favors mo dakka
Well the car only gets lighter as you expend the stored ammo... it'll balance out eventually right?
challenge accepted!
Gentleman, I have an idea...
Even at Biden fuel prices, I feel like that is gonna be way more in ammo costs than you would save. Could a Honda Civic carry both the gun and 30 seconds of ammunition?
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Well I was talking about a car, but yes people aren't kidding when they say the A10 Warthog is just 2 bigass engines strapped to a bigass gun. It can only fire in bursts because it will otherwise stall the aircraft.
"Officer, it's no different from a washing machine. One spins to make stains disappear, the other spins to make traffic disappear. Really not that complicated."
Well problem is my washing machine spins half a turn clockwise and then half a turn counter clockwise. If you can make yours do that you're free to go.
Tactically acquired
Does it revolve? **YES**.
Geo metro
https://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/21/jetpack_speeding.png
Strategically Transported the Equipment to an Alternate Location.
> it was just a revolver. Dirty Harry and Charles Bronson look on with amusement.
Eugene Tackleberry.
Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time.
Some of my favorite "I need stupid comedy" movies are the Police Academy movies, and Tackleberry loves his massive revolvers.
Nice piece...I was referring to your sidearm.
"Drop that stereo before I blow your GD nuts off asshole!"
Only if Mrs Feldman is driving the car
My mom gave it to me.
Like any of those assholes care about hypocrisy.
It's just as awkward for progunners having to stand by their principles and support Hunter Biden's gun rights just like any other citizen.
Hunter Biden should be able to drop cash on the counter and walk out with a machine gun.
> Awkward day for antigunners Awkward day for his dad, arguably one of the biggest antigunners My only question is going to be if Joe goes full nuclear and gives out a pre-emptive pardon to not only protect his son and his antigun agenda, but also try to keep any chance of Hunter turning on him for a plea deal
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Nixon
You can pardon before the conviction. There is a real question about if accepting the pardon is also admitting guilt that has never, to my knowledge, been tested. To be fair the pre-emptive pardon has never been tested by courts either, but since it would be Joe's pardon and his DoJ I doubt that would start now either.
Not an awkward day at all. Hunter Biden broke the law. He should be charged, found guilty, and given a fair punishment that matches other people who have been found guilty of the same crime. Donald Trump Jr should also be charged, but I don't think the left is as crazy fanatic as going after him for gun crimes as the right is for going after Hunter Biden over his gun crimes.. At least Donald Trump Jr.'s guide was charged... https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/05/21/utah-hunting-guide-faces/ And if it was ever discovered that Donald Trump Jr. or Donald Trump ever used an illegal narcotic while owning firearms, I hope all the same people who are adamant that Hunter faces justice also is adamant that the Trumps also face justice.
Hypocrites
That's probably why they charged him with lying rather than (or on top of?) being a prohibited person. Martha Stewart approach. This is why he was a dumbass for revealing his hand ahead of time.
I think the entire background check process can be challenged under Bruen. It is all unconstitutional. Plus, your 5th Amendment right says you don't need to be a witness against yourself, which the 4473 self-reporting definitely is. I hope it all gets torn down. Let's hope money-bags-Biden has the keesh to fight this and challenge the law.
Seems more politically viable to just cop a guilty plea and have dad pardon him on the way out. I think he'll take one for the team in exchange for "considerations."
I think pleading guilty to a felony is going to fuck up Biden's influence peddling businesses. I'd fight the law if I were him. He has the SCOTUS on his side here.
Does his on-paper identity even have much use anymore? He's drowning in child support accusation/debt and either way has a record of felony charges. His own identity is burned for any face-man position.
He is out of that business. First off, he lied about how much access he had to his dad, so he didnt help anyone do anything. And now he is being watched so closely its not worth the risk to try again. If he is offered no jail time and a stop to all this nonsense he might take the deal. He was ready to take that deal before it got mucked up.
>I think he'll take one for the team in exchange for "considerations." Oh you sweet summer-child... have you never encountered a narcissist before? If there is a reasonable and easy way to solve any problem, they will pretty much insist on doing the opposite.
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Frankly, I think a lot of existing case law is ripe to be overturned given Bruen.
If the world is rational, I would agree with you. But you have to consider that in this particular instance we are observing a very unusual legal alchemy. It's like in physics, "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" In this case, what happens when an unstoppable corruption encounters an immovable beaurocracy? This is gonna be like Elon's April launch of the Starship. The only guarantee is excitement!
What happens if you answer yes and they hand it over anyway as a mistake or something? People overlook things and BG checks sometimes overrun their time. You can't be charged?
They can absolutely still charge you for felon in possession of a firearm or whatever type of prohibited person you are but you can't be charged for making a false official statement on the form.
Does it mean they have to ignore what you wrote? I mean if what you were compelled by the government to write led you to the circumstances of being apprehended that's fruit of poisonous tree no? In practice they will just parallel construct to fuck you.
Tbh this is getting real into the weeds I honestly don't know enough to answer what your asking. I'm aware of your question but idk.
We're living in weird times.
What is the penalty for blatantly lying on a form 4473?
Maximum penalty is ten years, but obviously Hunter probably wouldn't get that if convicted.
Obviously not, wouldn’t be surprised if DOJ ends up dropping charges for some super specific reason
> for some super specific reason "My daddy called, he's the president"
If the unitary executive is good for the goose it's as well for the gander
History repeating? https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/doj-drops-charges-against-michael-flynn-barr https://www.npr.org/2020/02/16/806525297/1-100-former-doj-employees-call-on-barr-to-resign-after-intervening-in-stone-cas
He'll get time served, which was nothing. He will also still be able to travel internationally
It looks like he'd probably get somewhere between 0-21 months based on my reading of the sentencing guidelines.
FPSRussia got 60 days in and 2 years probation
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badge nutty many cake quicksand sink forgetful important follow outgoing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Shit I would lmao. Fuck it I’m 80 years old at that point, fuck everybody else I’m helping out my boy one last time.
Exactly what I was thinking. I'm sure he's going to run for reelection, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if he announced he wasn't running again, or if he won, he'd serve the first year of his 2nd term and then resign. And of course would pardon his son on the way out the door.
For a regular citizen? Death by firing squad. For the child of the current oligarch in power? Lawyer fees and a book deal worth 50 million dollars.
I hate whenever politicians are just allowed to do that. It seriously should have been stopped when Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon for Watergate. Anyone who is, or is directly connected to the presidency should be exempt from any pardons, commutation, or "miraculous backing down of the DOJ". Hit them with the full force of the law they claim to support and help build.
Watergate is basically nothing now.
And honestly it's ours and our ancestors faults for letting it get that way. It should have been taken way more seriously, since now both sides of the aisle use how lax it was and the chance of getting sway with the crimes because we just ***allowed*** the president to pardon an ex-president for something he should have absolutely been given hell for. The highest office of our government does not need corruption, and we continue to allow it by saying things like this. If we want freedom and integrity in our nation, we need to hold every office in every branch of every single tier to the exact same standard. Allowing even one bit of corruption get swept under the rug because the next guy to hold the office was the previous guy's locker buddy muddies the water and allows any and all forms of governmental tyranny to be completely and totally acceptable in the eyes of those who want to get away with it.
Rules for thee... the whole thing is becoming a joke.
His only penalty will be a pardon
And Lujan just broke that case, she straight up said that NICS is unconstitutional.
A federal judge enjoined her ‘public health order’ b/4 it was to go into effect tomorrow. Checks and balances fucking works.
Honestly, the Lt governor should have matched into the Governor office with the head of the state police and a few sheriff's and arrested her for treason
You can't just mention everyones favorite psyop with out linking the video.
I think it's the CNN clip. I actually started laughing when she said it.
Are you talking about the Judge or [Lujan](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/us-army-e-girl-lunchbaglujan)?
The soon to be prosecuted former governor. And if anyone had a spine she'd already be under a jail.
Psyop queen would never do us like that
$500 fine and no jail time. My prediction. lol
As much as id love to see the whole 4473 system shot down over this. Yeah i dont see him facing a real tangible punishment. Probabaly a 20 or 30 thousand dollar fine, some community service, but thats pocket change and a free art gala for him soooo.
This is the wrong case to challenge the 4473. It should be challenged clean, w/o the political shit.
Eh, the exposure this will get in the press with people googling about what a 4473 infraction is, and that will lead them to stories about people being treated at least as bad as a drug dealer because of typos. That's good press. The ridiculousness of losing a constitutional right over plant possession is also good press.
$500? More like $5 and they’ll sweep it under the rug.
You're forgetting the book deal.
The biggest shame is the context...he bought a gun while a prohibited person. After a big fight with his GF (his brother's widow he was banging since his wife threw him out for strippers and blow) over whether or not he was 'cuddling' inappropriately with his underage niece, she took his gun from his truck and threw it away in a public trash receptacle at a shopping center. After telling him what she did, he called his fixer at the secret service, and after they couldn't find it in the trash, and probably fearing it being found and used in a crime or a kid accidentally shooting someone, went to the FFL and demanded to see their records. He told them they didn't have the authority, and after a couple hours the ATF showed up and did the same. Taking the records the FFL was smart enough to copy. I am concerned by alphabet agencies being his private cleaning crew than his federal crime of lying on a 4473. After all, as more states make weed legal, but make you provide ID that is recorded, how long until they cross reference the list and spot check 4473s to make everyone that bought some gummies in Vegas a prohibited person.
If you don’t think they’re already cross-referencing those lists, you’re crazy. I’d go so far as to say that if someone in your household purchased legal weed with a scanned driver’s license, they know about it. Having firearms or NFA items registered to your address and someone living there being in possession of marijuana is a recipe for legal disaster.
Crazy that you can have a prescription for weed (from the state), and the same state will allow a firearm purchase knowing that they just helped break a federal law. Not to mention the racketeering aspect of manufacturing and selling the weed in the first place, especially while using digital transactions which require banks. The hypocrisy is just silly. Reschedule, decriminalize, and reform the 4473 so we can move on with the times.
But then how else would we selectively destroy the lives of common folk who are simply trying to live their lives, get through the day to day grind, and exercise their Constitutional rights? /s
I hope they can use this to strike down theis bullshit. I'm on a grand jury who indicted an old lady on this because she didn't realize her 20 year old DWI counted. She won the gun in a raffle and didn't even want it but was told she had to pick it up because of a different state law.
What state is this in? In my state you can’t buy a handgun for 3 years after a DWI, but that’s about it, not that even that makes sense.
Some state have felony DUI. Usually takes at least 3 of them to get there though.
Yeah, I was just looking up our DUI laws and it gets complicated. :/
Iirc its your 3rd if within 10 years of your 2nd one(thats also 10 years within your first), at least thats how I remember it was in CA when I got my dui. After 10 years of clean driving it kinda "resets" and your punishment is as if it was your first time. If they are within that period they stack up and punishment gets worse and worse. I had an old guy in my program who was on his 8th dui since the 70s and never spent any real hard time in jail. This is ofc assuming there wasnt an accident or something serious happen, just a basic pull over and arrest.
Why did y'all indict her? Was intent not considered?
A grand jury will indict a ham sandwich, its a completely broken process
IIRC only need a majority, unlikely a guilty verdict. So he may not have voted to indict. Grand jury basically is formality, and also a way for prosecutor to discretely drop a case (think police shooting) while appeasing the public by intentionally botching it and then saying "we tried."
They are pretty much a formality at this point and the defense has very little power in one, but, I understand why the constitution calls for them. In theory, a grand jury protects citizens from the government weaponizing charges. The bare minimum to indict is pretty damn low but I’m glad it exists.
The constitution called for them because the general public could bring charges back then, which is arguably necessary property of a democratic republic as excluding the public means prosecutors can indefinitely protect tyrants and favored villians.
This. I didn't vote to indict but you only need 12 out of 23 to vote yes. Ironically my cousin was murdered by police who tased him 12 times *after* he was hogtied hands and feet and the cops didn't get indicted because official cause of death was "excited delirium" which is a made up term by taser companies and not medically accepted
Grand jury is only looking at the possibility a crime was committed. Not an actual verdict. Intent doesn’t really mean anything to a grand jury - you’re basically saying “well, it’s possible a crime was committed here, now I leave it to a jury to decide”
I would like our legal system to enforce all the gun laws that are on the books to stress test the system. I think it would be very illuminating for people who's knee jerk response to gun violence is to pass more gun laws.
He's going to be charged, convicted, and **Pardoned.** You and I would would only get 2 out of 3...
Not a chance in a million that Joe touches this case with a 10' pole.
His good son is dead, you think he wants to visit the other one in prison. It'll be his controversial pardon on his way out after his second term.
Democrats are pushing really hard for Biden to not run again. So Hunter better hope he has a pretty speedy trial. It would be hilarious if he didn't get convicted till right after daddy leaves office.
FPSRussia got 60 days for the same thing, realistically we're not looking at huge penalties here
Maybe on the last day of his second term. But, TBH: it sounded like you were saying on the day he was sentenced. Sorry if I misunderstood.
In a free land, where rights are respected, you would have a right to put whatever you want into your body and also own a gun.
I don't give a flying shit about Hunter. If he committed a crime, he should be held accountable. Justice should be meted out equally and fairly. It shouldn't matter if you're rich, poor, famous, tangentially important, or if it's an election year.
This is such a pussy crime though. Like, how many people have taken Adderall or some shit once in their life or maybe made a mistake, DUI some other bullshit. Now they can't EVER own a gun? That is literally what this says and yeah, its against the 2nd amendment. This is a bullshit political stunt and thats all.
My understanding is that it is an active user of drugs, not that you have ever used drugs. So if you are going to use drugs at some point in your life, just don't buy guns requiring a 4473 during the same timeframe.
Ok so he is DEFINITELY getting off then lol.
Adderall you can use, just get a prescription
All gun laws are infringements. That aside, you’re right. This is an amazing chance for this to be targeted.
I dont disagree with that at all. However, if you or I lied on an ATF form, we’d be seeing consequences. It absolutely is political theater though. The GOP is intent on making Biden pay for Trump’s consequences. Meanwhile, they could be working on ways to roll back some of the dumb anti 2a laws that are out there.
Ok agreed 100%, bring that same energy to the trump indictments.
Charged =/= convicted. He will do zero time and it will likely be pleaded down or tossed out entirely. No way the son of a sitting president does a single day in jail.
As they shouldn't for this type of 'crime'. This is such a shitty example of the law being upheld, was Hunter doing coke and shit? Yeah, probably. Can they 1000% without a shadow of a doubt prove that? No, not at all. Trump himself was literally snorting adderalls for debates. Should he be allowed to own a gun?
I think this was around when he was in rehab for come addiction. That meshed with a gun purchase around the same time is what they're likely going after.
So, Noel Caslers saying Trump used Adderall is all the evidence you need to form your opinion? Are there photos, videos, or audio recordings of Trump snorting Adderall?
I feel like this is going to end up in court being like the Lord of War interrogation scene. “Soon there's going to be a knock on that door and you will be called outside. In the hall there will be a man who out-ranks you. First he'll compliment you on the fine job you've done - on you making the world a safer place. That you're to receive a commendation or a promotion. And then he's going to tell you that I am to be released. You're going to protest. You'll probably threaten to resign. But in the end, I *will* be released.”
Which is it? Laws and rules for everyone. Or money and lawyers adjust the law to suit you personally.
Well, we dont have a justice system, we have a legal system. As there is hardly any justice and your wealth determines which laws pertain to you. Hell, have enough money and they'll write just about any law you want.
Every single anti-gun activist in America, in unison: “Who cares, what’s the big deal?!?!”
I’d rather not have the feds start prosecuting people for lying on that form. They rarely do unless the gun was used in another crime. Hunter Biden had the gun for all of 11 days. If it were any one of us regular folk with no criminal history, we’d get a slap on the wrist if that. Hopefully it’s just a case of the DOJ wanting to prove that the POTUS / family isn’t above the law, but they really had to ignore their own norms to bring these indictments.
Whole concept of prohibited persons is unconstitutional, this would be a pretty funny way of it being struck down!
I hope he takes this to the Supreme Court and. Gets the unconstitutional prohibited person list pruned.
Sweetheart plea deal coming soon.
I think they already tried that and a judge struck it down
Different judge incoming... lol
If they hadn't tried to get immunity for anything even remotely referenced in the document and the judge hadn't caught it, the sweetheart deal would be done.
They'll find another judge that's good with a sweetheart deal, while they work on the details of the previous judge's upcoming fatal car "accident".
Because the Judge sussed out that they didn't agree to the terms. The defense thought the deal was one thing and the prosecution thought it was another. She was right to shoot it down, but not because it was too lenient (or not) -- but because they weren't on the same page.
Nah, gotta look "fair". He'll be tried and convicted. Difference between him and us is, he'll get a Pardon.
>BuT hEs NoT aN eLeCtEd OfFiCiAl Theyll come here to say. He's being charged with gun crimes, so its relevant to the goddamn sub.
Agreed that it's totally relevant. Hunter isn't an elected official, sure but his daddy used his presidential powers to throw his son's gun crimes under a rug while making the lives of peaceful gun owners around the nation hell and making us out to be the problem. It's never been about Hunter but how his dad abused his position of power to protect him and his legal mistakes while actively demonizing the rest of the responsible gun owners in the US for simply existing. But who knows, maybe he'll be an unintentional champion of gun rights for us?
That's true for /r/politics as he's not a politician and they have oddly specific rules, but I really don't see how someone could make that argument here.
They do that here and on gun politics. I don't know if it's actually people who feel that way or bots because someone's status as an elected official only really matters if the topic is only meant to be about politicians. because just the same. we'll talk about Kyle Rittenhouse and he's never been elected to anything either. I feel like it's their way of trying to make a clever talking point to hide that it's a tu quoque fallacy. because without fail. if you even engage them at all they will eventually bring up Trump, first. and there's nothing. I hate more than an argument that we shouldn't care about something for some nebulous reason. We are allowed to care about whatever the flying fuck we care about no matter how big or small it is. We are not required to give anything an equal amount of attention as everything else. and what's really funny is that a lot of them will say that they don't care, but you can quickly see through their post history that many of them have never posted in these subs before. so for some reason the fact that they don't care about hunter Biden is so important that they randomly travel to a sub and post on a thread about him. the person in which they do not care about.
Yeah. I don’t really care about Hunter Biden or what he does. The republican obsession with him has always been strange to me, but this is definitely relevant here.
Well, part of it is the Steisand Effect. Had they not tried to hide the laptop so hard, it wouldve likely been forgotten. They didnt try to hide the Tara Reade accusation and it became forgotten.
I think him and Jarod Kushner should be cellies. That’d be a cool comic book, yipped out Hunter and straight man Jarod.
Nobody on the left gives a shit what Hunter Biden does or where he ends up. Lock him the fuck up, imo, and I voted for his dad and probably will again (unless Haley gets the nod, then I might vote Republican). And if his dad DOES get him off or get him a lighter sentence, then thats bullshit but it's unfortunately par for the course for politics across the board. But dont come in here saying that we on the left think he should get a pass for this.
> and I voted for his dad and probably will again yikes
They don't give a shit and don't care but will cry about gun shit like a bunch of hypocrite assholes. Their irony is not lost on me at all lmao. If the shoe was on the other foot they'd be freaking the fuck out about this and reeing to the sky and maybe not you but your camp is trying to give this shitbag a pass and downplaying it. So yes, with the amount of downplaying or "who cares" from the same people who scream "the children!" I will absolutely come in here and call it how I see it even if it annoys you. Maybe tell your companions to have some consistency for once and stop being little simps for career shitbags.
Never said "people on the left" bud. Get that chip off your shoulder.
It will ultimately go nowhere because of the New Orleans Court basically disqualifying the drug use questions on the 4473. This was likely either a politically motivated move calculated to absolve the current administration of taint from Hunter Biden's crimes or it was a strategic move to get the Biden team on the defensive before actual indictments with teeth come down.
As far asnI understand how that works, it only applies in their specific district, but I could be mistaken in how I interpreted the explanation of the ruling that I read.
I believe that you are correct; however, courts can use any jurisdictions case law as precedent and for guidance, iirc. I know that federal courts have used state case law precedents to determine issues and outcomes. I would think that federal case law would have some weight. Biden's defense team would be malpracticing not to cite it, all things being equal.
Is Biden's ATF going to apply his zero tolerance policy to the FFL that sold his spawn a gun?
new judge reads the last name: "Nothing to see here."
In my wildest dreams, this case will go down in history as the one that severely curtails not only the government's ability to decide who can buy what guns from whom, but also the one that gets cited to bring down the DEA's ridiculous drug scheduling scheme, because the government has no constitutional authority to decide what an adult puts in their own body. Arguably, the DEA is the far more malevolent and harmful government agency. They wield ridiculous power, moreso than the ATF, are double the size of the ATF in both manpower and budget. The war on drugs has done more to drive the increase in violent crime than anything else. If you want to do something about violent offenses committed with guns, stop allowing the DEA to enforce ridiculously unconstitutional laws and treat local law enforcement like fucking posse's and putting huge segments of the population in prison for the crime of getting high.
Finally a rational, coherent comment
Total fine with political elite's family discount: $5
I guess it’s a start.
He will get convicted, with a light sentence at a country club jail. Then be pardoned very quietly by the next leftist in office if not his so called father when he leaves office.
I bet he’s not sitting in jail over the weekend waiting for a bond hearing like the rest of us would be.
And did nothing about the $20 mil in bribes…..surprise!!!! Oh and he’s suing the guys that released his laptop contents not including the kiddy porn. The same laptop they said was Russian disinformation. This entire thing is one big ass clown show.
And this is how the 4473 is found to be unconstitutional. I’m loving this. It’s a win/win. Biden squirms and we get rid of the 4473 when this is struck down.
One can wish. Reality: 1. They find him guilty and fine him $500 2. There is at least one Biden supporter on the jury, and he' s either found not guilty or there is a hung jury. Remember, facts don't matter to D's, only feelings.
Based
Can someone please ask Hunter Biden to apply for a CCW in California.
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I'm already seeing it happen and the downplaying is hilarious. They're useful idiots and simps of the highest and worst degree.
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For me, it's out and about in town and at work and I will overhear people talking about it like it's not that big of a deal. Then you have online where it's just word salads and what aboutisms dancing around the fact that we have a two tiered justice system that absolutely won't see this shitheel get what he deserves because his dad will bail him out. The same dad who's administration is shutting down FFLs over literally typos "for gun safety" then soften up the court to give Coke Malone a better deal. It's a fucking joke.
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As a gun to sting liberal, I'd love to see more of this. You break the law, you get charged, no matter who you are or who you know. It's also interesting that it's gun related charges. Should make for some interesting bipartisan conversations.
It's the senile old man's son. Nothing will happen to him is my prediction. Even if "convicted," he'll get a slap on the wrist.
Big Guy will pardon, then get 10% of Hunter's net worth.
Can I name my kid SkyDiver?
If that floats your boat...
Cool story bro, wake me up when something actually happens to him (spoiler nothing will)
*Colt Cobra 38SPL* A Gentleman of exquisite taste if I may say myself. Colt fan boys going to be bussin fr fr.
Don’t look at the big guy focus on this
Rules for thee and not for me!!
I have to wonder how often this charge is actually used against anyone. It is against the law to be a drug user and buy a firearm. But they aren’t exactly giving drug test when you buy a gun either. I do think it is sad that Biden is so harsh on guns. Yet, he won’t have any problems defending his son for breaking the laws he put in place.
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Well since the DOJ is clearly politically motivated, per the recent Trump cases, when are we protesting this clearly politically motivated indictment?
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About time.
The sounds of goal posts being moved is deafening.
Good, rich criminals should be prosecuted like anyone else. Also, he should be prosecuted for me having to see his naked ass in all the pics from that hotel room. What a fucking tool...
Don Jr next!
Nice, lol.
Personally, I think a background check to exercise a right is bullshit.
ok cool. Anyways...
They’ll have to prove in court that he was using drugs at the time he purchased and possessed it. That’s a bit tricky to do after the fact. These charges are typically pressed when someone is actively caught with both