I started with EMS for about 8 years until I decided to jump into fire. I enjoy the work but EMS is still my jam and luckily we have a transporting ambulance and rotate onto the engine and truck. Call volume isn’t crazy, and the burn out is a lot less, at least where I work. I’m pushing 40 now but I would never go back to EMS. Between the pay, benefits, not having to post move, and not working 12s, there’s just too much going for fire. I really enjoy working fire but it wasn’t my number 1 passion. I’m a great medic and it shows but I would never pick private EMS over fire. I think I would rather go to teaching and a side gig instead.
Private ems definitely has it flaws. Where I’m at it’s still private, but we have stations we are able to stay at we work a modified kelly shift and 48 hr shifts. Pay is great and is definitely hard to pass on and come across for private ems systems. Benefits are decent just like any private ems system. Longevity of a paramedic however some work nearly 30-40 years and still do it to keep their minds going
That’s good to hear, it’s probably my area that has its share of difficulties. It was tough for me working private and hearing all about contracts and feeling like an at will employee. But overall I think it really comes down to, can you see yourself working as a FF again and enjoy it. Do you have any departments in the area that you’ve looked at, and do any have any transporting busses?
I hear you on that. I still feel as an at will employee at times due to the circumstances of a contract. In fact another private ambulance may take over our current agency so it’s definitely not a good feeling. It’s hard to say, i enjoy the camaraderie and team feeling but also definitely enjoy to be working with only 1 other person at times. I’d have to completely relocate in order for an opportunity like that. I’m open to it, but not exactly wanting to do that in my current position and life circumstance
EMS would be more enjoyable if you cut all the BS calls out and nursing homes actually did their jobs. I truly believe if you cut the nonsense/BS out then call volumes for EMS would drop drastically. At that point, I would actually consider it as a standalone career. Running medics into the ground for constant nonsense is not sustainable, at least not for me.
Plus, the ridiculous amount of redundant paperwork EMS typically requires for each call makes the whole documentation/turn around process even more unenjoyable.
EMS definitely has strong potential, but in its current state is just not worth it unless you are in a very specific system that is well funded, has adequate staffing and constantly isn’t running their people into the ground over 24-48 hours.
Work alongside one regularly. It’s amazing how well a properly funded third service EMS can do in terms of recruitment and retention, it’s just a matter of doing it. They have people making a living, and careers, out of EMS by paying them properly and not running them into the ground.
The fact of the matter is, the EMS personnel shortage is a problem caused by EMS administrators and politicians alike.
If you have a passion towards healthcare don't stop on the bottom rung. EMS is fun for a short time but not a career. At the end of the day all medics do is manage ABCs.
If I were you I'd goto OCS for the military benefits. Knock out a few pre reqs and consider going nursing, PA, or even the MD route via the military. Be a difference maker and not just treat the ABCs of people already fucked up.
Not only will it be a more interesting life and story but you'll get the crazy military benefits, a lot more money in the long run, and be able to take your passion for medicine all the way.
And the biggest one is the job flexibility to live wherever you want in the country.
I love the fire department but it's tough being locked down.
Definitely love healthcare. I think it sparks my neurons a bit more than fire. I’ve lost my drive and became lost in what i want to do, but I think it’s time to take the giant leap of faith again. I’ve been definitely eyeing out OCS for that exact reason you mention. The benefits imo may be far superior than fire if everything pans out. That’s how I feel about it, I’m kind of a nomadic personality myself and I enjoy new experiences
I’ve bounced between FDs, private EMS, third service EMS, and overseas contracts for both fire and EMS. Ultimately, I like EMS a bit more. It has a less entrenched culture, it’s still a developing field, and I’ve been paid more on the EMS side than the FD side. It’s just a matter of finding the right fit.
The first FD I worked for was 100+ years old. They had their way of doing things, even if there were new ways to do it that were safer or evidence-based. Didn’t matter. From a broader perspective, the fire service has a lot of tradition. Which can be great, right? Dress uniforms get a funny boxy looking cap! But also, leather helmets are a thing? Why? They’re heavy as shit and offer less protection than those icky *European* ones. But, it’s tradition.
EMS is new. And yes, at a lot of for-profit private services, the culture can be abysmal. But get into a good third service with a good OMD, and boy can you have a super progressive patient-focused evidence-based service that takes care of its employees and welcomes change.
I came in for firefighting, but policy changes and a series of BS have pushed me into favoring the EMS side of things. I'm too the point where I can't be an effective FF and feeling I can help more people just going to a progressive EMS department. And to clarify- I love firefighting, but in my community I don't feel I can do it effectively or safely anymore, so I'm starting to favor EMS (which comes with a pay cut but better hours and work life)
Yes. I very much prefer EMS over fire.
I still like fire, but I like EMS *more*.
Where I live, single role EMS pays more than dual role fire. I would have to take a hefty pay cut to go back to a career in Fire.
Edit: clarity
Well, first, I wouldn’t and didn’t. I took a $100,000/yr pay cut to become a firefighter.
Pay isn’t everything. You have to enjoy what you’re doing or you will hate your life every day and take it out on those around you.
I worked single role EMS for several years.
Then started working part time at an FD for a year or so, on the buggy.
I didn’t care for fire stuff. I have no real draw or desire to work on an engine. Absolutely no desire to do truck stuff. **I** take care of patients. That’s what I’m good at. That’s what I enjoy.
I was going to go full time at the FD but I just couldn’t see myself not enjoying half of my job, the entire time.
So I turned down the job and applied to a flight job the next day.
That’s cool man. I wish I could revisit fire again to see if it’s totally worth my time and something I still have a passion for. But when I’m next to a fire truck or see fire things it just doesn’t excite me as much
I used to feel similarly, but the extreme abuse of the EMS system led me to change my tune eventually.
Became hard to stomach that 3am transport to the hospital due to abnormal lab values, a nightmare, or one of the many other calls that don’t even come close to qualifying for use of emergency services.
I'm really on the fence on this. My area gets very few real fires, 85% of our non-EMS fire calls are calls like fire alarms, odor of smoke or gas leak. It's a real PITA getting geared up for these calls all the time and then tracking through a hot building in summer all cause the cleaning crew stored up some dust and set off the detector.
But on the flip side, our medic can leave ar 3pm and not get back until 10pm running calls non-stop.
FF/EMT-B and an Officer in the reserves. What would be your reason for joining the reserves? There are some great benefits but being in Officer in the reserves has a high burnout rate. Could consider going 68W (combat medic) enlisted if you really enjoy the medical side of things or pick another medical focus that you might want to further your skills in (LPN for example). Enlisted has basically the same benefits as Officers, the pay is less but as an Officer you will be expected to do a lot of work for free outside of drills which is why so many Officers get burnt out. Most of the enlisted Soldiers in my unit all have degrees.
Another thing to consider is selecting a different MOS entirely so that you can gain another skill set, do something different during drill than what you do at your civilian job and then have some skills you can fall back on for a potential other career if you ever decide to leave the EMS field.
No matter what MOS you pick you should be eligible for credentialing assistance as well (both Officers and Enlisted get this but not enough people take advantage of it) which allows you to do a number of civilian trainings and certifications to earn skills in any area of expertise).
Also some states, the guard has some better benefits such as free in state tuition to schools if you are in the guard in that state. Just a thought if you wanted to go back to school.
It’s always been a calling to serve my country, i have a lineage of generation that have served in military. I definitely enjoy my current life and want to go reserves then OTC if anything. I also would like to go back to school to further education, pay off loans, and accumulate benefits. What positions lack burn out rates?
There’s 3 ways to get money for school - join the guard in a state that gives you in state tuition, utilize tuition assistance (you would have to research this - I am not familiar with how it works or how to qualify for it) or earn your GI Bill.
To get the full GI bill you need 36 months of active duty time. You can get 50% of the GI bill doing 90 days of active duty time. As far as my understanding your initial entry training does not count towards the GI bill. More info here: https://www.va.gov/education/benefit-rates/post-9-11-gi-bill-rates/
If you want your student loans paid off (Student Loan Repayment Plan or SLRP) you need to ensure it’s in your contract when you join or you won’t get it. Sometimes if you take 1 benefit you will not get the other. Example: I did ROTC in grad school - the Army paid for my tuition but would not give me SLRP to pay off my undergrad loans since they were already paying tuition for my future degree.
More info on Tuition Assistance here: https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Benefit-Library/Federal-Benefits/Tuition-Assistance-(TA)?serv=125
Best bet is to head over to the Army Reserve sub because there will be a lot more people with different experiences who can answer your questions re different jobs and different benefits. I can’t say which jobs won’t cause burnout but I know the higher in rank you go the more work you are expected to do on your own time.
I was a firefighter/paramedic for 12 years on a rescue (ambulance). I really enjoyed it but there was no promotional pathway at the time. I decided it was time to promote when people I orientated when they were new medics started getting promoted to Captain (requires 8 years in our department)
I also see being a paramedic as a stuck in a hard place role. There just aren’t many opportunities for growth. Do you prefer EMS? I’ve thought about the fire dpt but unfortunately there is no fire ems where Imm currently located
EMS would be cool if 90% of our medical calls didn't involve us acting as glorified babysitters. It's engaging when you're in situations where you actually get to use your skills (or at the very least, feel like you're making **some** kind of difference), rather than being a a stand-in therapist/social worker who also acts as a taxi service. I don't dislike it enough to take a pay cut, but if I were given the choice to be on an engine/truck over being on an ambulance, I'll take the heavy apparatus every single time.
I work in Rural EMS where at least 25% of our calls would be BS sometimes more. When people call, people mean it so the stress can be high but it allows me to practice what i signed up for. I’ve never really experienced a whole lot of heavy engine time but I could imagine it would be really fun and enjoyable
Was on the box for awhile. I hit 44 got hurt, force retired.
Go fire bro. Your body will thank you for it and your pension can be pretty nice.
Think about the LONG game.
When you load a pt in the box, you usually want help. Why? Because your back needs to be able to lift more pts for the next 15 years. LONG game.
When you see heroes on the cover of magazines do you see REAL medics and emts or models? I usually assume models because in my department we had NO TIME to hardly eat. Most of the cover spots were given to the fire guys because most of our calls were medicals. They had time to cook, clean, hands on training, toy drives and sleep during ot.
Fire my man HANDS DOWN!
We’re very fortunate where fire co-responds with ems. We can lift patients, but also have fires man power in addition. I definitely hear you about health and appearance. It’s hard with a high cortisol profession!
Hated the box. Never wanted to be on the box. I see it's value in first responder development. Did everything I could to make captain and not be on the box. Didn't even want captain. Made captain. Still shut my truck down and make me drive the box. Left the box and the truck for good.
I started with EMS for about 8 years until I decided to jump into fire. I enjoy the work but EMS is still my jam and luckily we have a transporting ambulance and rotate onto the engine and truck. Call volume isn’t crazy, and the burn out is a lot less, at least where I work. I’m pushing 40 now but I would never go back to EMS. Between the pay, benefits, not having to post move, and not working 12s, there’s just too much going for fire. I really enjoy working fire but it wasn’t my number 1 passion. I’m a great medic and it shows but I would never pick private EMS over fire. I think I would rather go to teaching and a side gig instead.
Private ems definitely has it flaws. Where I’m at it’s still private, but we have stations we are able to stay at we work a modified kelly shift and 48 hr shifts. Pay is great and is definitely hard to pass on and come across for private ems systems. Benefits are decent just like any private ems system. Longevity of a paramedic however some work nearly 30-40 years and still do it to keep their minds going
That’s good to hear, it’s probably my area that has its share of difficulties. It was tough for me working private and hearing all about contracts and feeling like an at will employee. But overall I think it really comes down to, can you see yourself working as a FF again and enjoy it. Do you have any departments in the area that you’ve looked at, and do any have any transporting busses?
I hear you on that. I still feel as an at will employee at times due to the circumstances of a contract. In fact another private ambulance may take over our current agency so it’s definitely not a good feeling. It’s hard to say, i enjoy the camaraderie and team feeling but also definitely enjoy to be working with only 1 other person at times. I’d have to completely relocate in order for an opportunity like that. I’m open to it, but not exactly wanting to do that in my current position and life circumstance
EMS would be more enjoyable if you cut all the BS calls out and nursing homes actually did their jobs. I truly believe if you cut the nonsense/BS out then call volumes for EMS would drop drastically. At that point, I would actually consider it as a standalone career. Running medics into the ground for constant nonsense is not sustainable, at least not for me. Plus, the ridiculous amount of redundant paperwork EMS typically requires for each call makes the whole documentation/turn around process even more unenjoyable. EMS definitely has strong potential, but in its current state is just not worth it unless you are in a very specific system that is well funded, has adequate staffing and constantly isn’t running their people into the ground over 24-48 hours.
With shortage for EMS providers it would be damn near hard to find system that fits your description you mentioned
Work alongside one regularly. It’s amazing how well a properly funded third service EMS can do in terms of recruitment and retention, it’s just a matter of doing it. They have people making a living, and careers, out of EMS by paying them properly and not running them into the ground. The fact of the matter is, the EMS personnel shortage is a problem caused by EMS administrators and politicians alike.
I rotate at my department. One day engine. One day EMS. I'll be a medic in about a year little bump in pay. 24/48 schedule.
That’s cool. Keep at it! Hard work pays off
I would take a 10k pay cut never to ride a medic again.
How about 11k+?
Yup
I left the FD to go full time EMS, not private/for-profit though.
What was your reason being?
Firefighting is fun but I’m much more passionate about healthcare
I also have that sort of passion after entering medic school it was definitely more enjoyable
If you have a passion towards healthcare don't stop on the bottom rung. EMS is fun for a short time but not a career. At the end of the day all medics do is manage ABCs. If I were you I'd goto OCS for the military benefits. Knock out a few pre reqs and consider going nursing, PA, or even the MD route via the military. Be a difference maker and not just treat the ABCs of people already fucked up. Not only will it be a more interesting life and story but you'll get the crazy military benefits, a lot more money in the long run, and be able to take your passion for medicine all the way. And the biggest one is the job flexibility to live wherever you want in the country. I love the fire department but it's tough being locked down.
Definitely love healthcare. I think it sparks my neurons a bit more than fire. I’ve lost my drive and became lost in what i want to do, but I think it’s time to take the giant leap of faith again. I’ve been definitely eyeing out OCS for that exact reason you mention. The benefits imo may be far superior than fire if everything pans out. That’s how I feel about it, I’m kind of a nomadic personality myself and I enjoy new experiences
I would take a 15k pay cut to never go on a low priority medical call again .
I’ve bounced between FDs, private EMS, third service EMS, and overseas contracts for both fire and EMS. Ultimately, I like EMS a bit more. It has a less entrenched culture, it’s still a developing field, and I’ve been paid more on the EMS side than the FD side. It’s just a matter of finding the right fit.
Could you elaborate on entrenched culture? I agree and i think my fit may be on ems
The first FD I worked for was 100+ years old. They had their way of doing things, even if there were new ways to do it that were safer or evidence-based. Didn’t matter. From a broader perspective, the fire service has a lot of tradition. Which can be great, right? Dress uniforms get a funny boxy looking cap! But also, leather helmets are a thing? Why? They’re heavy as shit and offer less protection than those icky *European* ones. But, it’s tradition. EMS is new. And yes, at a lot of for-profit private services, the culture can be abysmal. But get into a good third service with a good OMD, and boy can you have a super progressive patient-focused evidence-based service that takes care of its employees and welcomes change.
I came in for firefighting, but policy changes and a series of BS have pushed me into favoring the EMS side of things. I'm too the point where I can't be an effective FF and feeling I can help more people just going to a progressive EMS department. And to clarify- I love firefighting, but in my community I don't feel I can do it effectively or safely anymore, so I'm starting to favor EMS (which comes with a pay cut but better hours and work life)
Work life balance is so important. I can relate with EMS allows me to help people at a more stimulating and deeper level
That would be me - luckily I work for a municipal department that does ALS and transports so most of the job is EMS.
If you’re up for relocating it sounds like you’re looking for a 3rd service EMS department.
Whats a 3rd service EMS department?
A public agency like most fire/police departments.
Yes. I love the non bs ems calls more than all the fire.
Yes. I very much prefer EMS over fire. I still like fire, but I like EMS *more*. Where I live, single role EMS pays more than dual role fire. I would have to take a hefty pay cut to go back to a career in Fire. Edit: clarity
Wait, but you prefer EMS? Why would you take a pay cut if you like EMS more
Well, first, I wouldn’t and didn’t. I took a $100,000/yr pay cut to become a firefighter. Pay isn’t everything. You have to enjoy what you’re doing or you will hate your life every day and take it out on those around you.
Yeah i enjoyed fire during my younger stages of life and pursuing it. But I found ems to be very fun as well.
I started as a paramedic and took a paycut when I crossed over to firefighter/emt. Best decision of my life.
I worked single role EMS for several years. Then started working part time at an FD for a year or so, on the buggy. I didn’t care for fire stuff. I have no real draw or desire to work on an engine. Absolutely no desire to do truck stuff. **I** take care of patients. That’s what I’m good at. That’s what I enjoy. I was going to go full time at the FD but I just couldn’t see myself not enjoying half of my job, the entire time. So I turned down the job and applied to a flight job the next day.
That’s cool man. I wish I could revisit fire again to see if it’s totally worth my time and something I still have a passion for. But when I’m next to a fire truck or see fire things it just doesn’t excite me as much
I used to feel similarly, but the extreme abuse of the EMS system led me to change my tune eventually. Became hard to stomach that 3am transport to the hospital due to abnormal lab values, a nightmare, or one of the many other calls that don’t even come close to qualifying for use of emergency services.
I'm really on the fence on this. My area gets very few real fires, 85% of our non-EMS fire calls are calls like fire alarms, odor of smoke or gas leak. It's a real PITA getting geared up for these calls all the time and then tracking through a hot building in summer all cause the cleaning crew stored up some dust and set off the detector. But on the flip side, our medic can leave ar 3pm and not get back until 10pm running calls non-stop.
Interesting. Yeah not a whole lotta fires where I’m at either
FF/EMT-B and an Officer in the reserves. What would be your reason for joining the reserves? There are some great benefits but being in Officer in the reserves has a high burnout rate. Could consider going 68W (combat medic) enlisted if you really enjoy the medical side of things or pick another medical focus that you might want to further your skills in (LPN for example). Enlisted has basically the same benefits as Officers, the pay is less but as an Officer you will be expected to do a lot of work for free outside of drills which is why so many Officers get burnt out. Most of the enlisted Soldiers in my unit all have degrees. Another thing to consider is selecting a different MOS entirely so that you can gain another skill set, do something different during drill than what you do at your civilian job and then have some skills you can fall back on for a potential other career if you ever decide to leave the EMS field. No matter what MOS you pick you should be eligible for credentialing assistance as well (both Officers and Enlisted get this but not enough people take advantage of it) which allows you to do a number of civilian trainings and certifications to earn skills in any area of expertise). Also some states, the guard has some better benefits such as free in state tuition to schools if you are in the guard in that state. Just a thought if you wanted to go back to school.
It’s always been a calling to serve my country, i have a lineage of generation that have served in military. I definitely enjoy my current life and want to go reserves then OTC if anything. I also would like to go back to school to further education, pay off loans, and accumulate benefits. What positions lack burn out rates?
There’s 3 ways to get money for school - join the guard in a state that gives you in state tuition, utilize tuition assistance (you would have to research this - I am not familiar with how it works or how to qualify for it) or earn your GI Bill. To get the full GI bill you need 36 months of active duty time. You can get 50% of the GI bill doing 90 days of active duty time. As far as my understanding your initial entry training does not count towards the GI bill. More info here: https://www.va.gov/education/benefit-rates/post-9-11-gi-bill-rates/ If you want your student loans paid off (Student Loan Repayment Plan or SLRP) you need to ensure it’s in your contract when you join or you won’t get it. Sometimes if you take 1 benefit you will not get the other. Example: I did ROTC in grad school - the Army paid for my tuition but would not give me SLRP to pay off my undergrad loans since they were already paying tuition for my future degree. More info on Tuition Assistance here: https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Benefit-Library/Federal-Benefits/Tuition-Assistance-(TA)?serv=125 Best bet is to head over to the Army Reserve sub because there will be a lot more people with different experiences who can answer your questions re different jobs and different benefits. I can’t say which jobs won’t cause burnout but I know the higher in rank you go the more work you are expected to do on your own time.
I was a firefighter/paramedic for 12 years on a rescue (ambulance). I really enjoyed it but there was no promotional pathway at the time. I decided it was time to promote when people I orientated when they were new medics started getting promoted to Captain (requires 8 years in our department)
I also see being a paramedic as a stuck in a hard place role. There just aren’t many opportunities for growth. Do you prefer EMS? I’ve thought about the fire dpt but unfortunately there is no fire ems where Imm currently located
EMS would be cool if 90% of our medical calls didn't involve us acting as glorified babysitters. It's engaging when you're in situations where you actually get to use your skills (or at the very least, feel like you're making **some** kind of difference), rather than being a a stand-in therapist/social worker who also acts as a taxi service. I don't dislike it enough to take a pay cut, but if I were given the choice to be on an engine/truck over being on an ambulance, I'll take the heavy apparatus every single time.
I work in Rural EMS where at least 25% of our calls would be BS sometimes more. When people call, people mean it so the stress can be high but it allows me to practice what i signed up for. I’ve never really experienced a whole lot of heavy engine time but I could imagine it would be really fun and enjoyable
You guys see fires?
As you know its rare. 90% calls are medical related
Was on the box for awhile. I hit 44 got hurt, force retired. Go fire bro. Your body will thank you for it and your pension can be pretty nice. Think about the LONG game. When you load a pt in the box, you usually want help. Why? Because your back needs to be able to lift more pts for the next 15 years. LONG game. When you see heroes on the cover of magazines do you see REAL medics and emts or models? I usually assume models because in my department we had NO TIME to hardly eat. Most of the cover spots were given to the fire guys because most of our calls were medicals. They had time to cook, clean, hands on training, toy drives and sleep during ot. Fire my man HANDS DOWN!
We’re very fortunate where fire co-responds with ems. We can lift patients, but also have fires man power in addition. I definitely hear you about health and appearance. It’s hard with a high cortisol profession!
Hated the box. Never wanted to be on the box. I see it's value in first responder development. Did everything I could to make captain and not be on the box. Didn't even want captain. Made captain. Still shut my truck down and make me drive the box. Left the box and the truck for good.
Are you able to have a good work life balance? Do you enjoy being a firefighter in civilian? Why did you become an officer?
Sent you a PM
EMS is torture. I’d take a pay cut to do fire only.