I've been to a few of the other restaurants on this list, and were they in New York, they'd range from exceptional places I'd be clamoring to visit again to others to which I'd never want to return. All of that is to say that a lot of the restaurants outside of New York, London, Paris, and Tokyo on these sorts of lists are graded on a heavy curve for the sake of provocation and geographic diversity.
Same here, have been to a fair # of these, but it's sort of sad that NYC only has one, but can't say I'm totally surprised. Atomix was amazing, def deserves the mention.
I’ve been to a few, most recently Le Du. I can easily name 20 places in NYC that I would sooner go back to, most of which are less expensive than Le Du was. Lists in general are nonsense, but this one is just comical.
It's an interesting question why that is. Why is NYC doing so poorly on this list compared to so many of these other cities? It's not for lack of the people who can afford to eat at these places...
because rent has become so expensive it's more difficult for new chef to try their skills here and make it, the new restaurants in recent decade are mostly by restaurant groups and/or famed chefs that already has a few restaurants under their belt like daniel and jean georges.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. Rent, combined with super high labor costs compared to other population centers around the world, definitely contribute to the difficulty for restaurant businesses in NYC to take greater risk or try different things while still being able to offer meals at prices reasonable enough (not to mention tips) for customers to want to try. People can blame COVID or whatever but the truth is that (speaking as a high income resident of the city), I simply save my “nice meals” or fine dining budget mostly for when I’m traveling, the offerings in the city simply are no longer competitive globally both quality and cost wise, and it’s approaching the point where eating fine dining or high end sushi in the city is almost equal to the cost of flying to Europe AND eating 3 Michelin meals there. We all love NYC food scene but at the highest end, it really falls short globally and we don’t need to circle jerk ourselves to feel like we win in every category.
I think they're getting downvoted because it's equally plausible that there are other NYC places good enough to be on the list that are excluded for other reasons, and this is just speculation which encourages confirmation bias. Personally, I've had a number of Michelin star meals in a few countries in Europe (which are more represented on this list) and I did not find them better (nor were they cheaper) than the ones I've had here.
\*\*I appreciate the challenges that the NYC ( i.e. Manhattan, Williamsburg and some parts of Queens) landscape is facing, but there are dozens of layers and nuanced realities that lead to this, so what once was groundbreaking and amazing has become a moneyed playground.. its no longer a dining city. I believe that a purge is coming, I am bracing for it. I honestly hope not.
So far I have found some of the most honest, delicious, classic, contemporary, exciting dining to be in Westchester and Upstate NY.. again, we shall see. Currently the once hot and "hip" areas of NYC bore me to tears and I, for one, will not gift them my time or money.
That is true but has nothing to do with this list. Half the list is restaurants in extremely expensive cities - Hong Kong, London, Paris, Stockholm and Tokyo are peppering the list. Not to mention the top-50 is almost entirely composed of ultra-expensive ultra-luxury tasting menu restaurants, the frequency, quality and success of which has little to do with whether rent is affordable.
If the list had other American cities featured, I might buy your logic (eg chefs are migrating to lower cost areas rather than New York). But I think it’s pretty unfair to say there’s only one top-50-worthy cuisine in the most populous developed country in the world. I think there’s a pretty clear anti-American bias in the list
it has to do with the way they do the rankings. I don’t remember the exact process off the top of my head but i believe there is no weighting for geographic density or things like that, so places with a lot of really good restaurants like NY and even Tokyo might be underrepresented on a list like this. Voters also would have less consensus due to more spots in NYC versus other cities with fewer options will have more overlap on the voter lists
I don't know, I do think the food scene in NYC has lost some magic post pandemic. There's no MUST TRY multi star restaurant today like there was ten years ago. Who wants to go to 11 Madison Park or Per Se or Masa now? We have a lot of very fine bistros and a good selection of strong ethnic restaurants but where is the spot that folks around the world want to travel to try once, like an Alchemist or a Pujol or a Frantzen. BTW Atomix is the only American restaurant on the list. There are FOUR in Bangkok alone.
Part of the secret to appearing on this list is having an active tourism board in the background luring journalists and influencers to the city the the purpose of having them dine. They want to drive gastrotourism to their locales, so they fly voters out with the hope that they will vote for the restaurants and bring more visitors. NYC is not as committed to this as a place like Copenhagen is.
I think part of it is the population of people that can afford those places. In the US and NYC in particular, most of the people with the expendable income to drop 500pp on dinner are older and more conservative. They don't want something trendy and challenging and new, they want name-brand, white-tablecloth places like Daniel and Per Se and Le Bernardin.
In Europe, places like Disfratur and Alchemist can thrive because there are more open-minded millenials with cash to drop on a meal like that.
Obviously there are places on that list like Bogota and Bankok that have even worse income disparity, but that almost proves my point further. Rent and labor are so cheap there that it's easier to take the risk and open a high-end place that hopes to attract the rich tourists that are looking for an adventure.
I used to assign this list a great deal of significance. But now, I think that as a guide for where to eat, it’s almost worthless. My reasons are pretty similar to the ones Pete Wells recently laid out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/dining/what-makes-a-50-best-restaurant.html
Broad generalization. TBH while the rankings are a bit random I've almost always had excellent meals at many on here. The three CDMX spots are all fantastic for example.
Pujol to me was not pretentious at all. It was fancy (but nowhere near as fancy as starred restaurants in France or Sweden for example), but still warm and welcoming. I liked Quintonil even better. Maybe you are not into fine dining establishments which is fine, it's not for everyone, a certain amount of theater is expected, an artistic approach to food, sometimes those things work sometimes they don't but it's cool to see what they try. Look I love hole-in-the-walls as well, but I want all the experiences.
Seem like you came in with unrealistic expectations and honestly sounding snobby. We went less than 6 months ago and thought the space was well designed. We specifically loved the Scandinavian minimalist style. The restroom, while not Texas size, was beautiful.
You have to understand that this is Manhattan. Rent is EXPENSIVE. Space is hard to come by.
I've been to a few of the other restaurants on this list, and were they in New York, they'd range from exceptional places I'd be clamoring to visit again to others to which I'd never want to return. All of that is to say that a lot of the restaurants outside of New York, London, Paris, and Tokyo on these sorts of lists are graded on a heavy curve for the sake of provocation and geographic diversity.
Same here, have been to a fair # of these, but it's sort of sad that NYC only has one, but can't say I'm totally surprised. Atomix was amazing, def deserves the mention.
I’ve been to a few, most recently Le Du. I can easily name 20 places in NYC that I would sooner go back to, most of which are less expensive than Le Du was. Lists in general are nonsense, but this one is just comical.
I never understood how A Casa do Porco keeps getting on this list. It's good but there's probably half a dozen better places in São Paulo to eat at.
It's an interesting question why that is. Why is NYC doing so poorly on this list compared to so many of these other cities? It's not for lack of the people who can afford to eat at these places...
because rent has become so expensive it's more difficult for new chef to try their skills here and make it, the new restaurants in recent decade are mostly by restaurant groups and/or famed chefs that already has a few restaurants under their belt like daniel and jean georges.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. Rent, combined with super high labor costs compared to other population centers around the world, definitely contribute to the difficulty for restaurant businesses in NYC to take greater risk or try different things while still being able to offer meals at prices reasonable enough (not to mention tips) for customers to want to try. People can blame COVID or whatever but the truth is that (speaking as a high income resident of the city), I simply save my “nice meals” or fine dining budget mostly for when I’m traveling, the offerings in the city simply are no longer competitive globally both quality and cost wise, and it’s approaching the point where eating fine dining or high end sushi in the city is almost equal to the cost of flying to Europe AND eating 3 Michelin meals there. We all love NYC food scene but at the highest end, it really falls short globally and we don’t need to circle jerk ourselves to feel like we win in every category.
I think they're getting downvoted because it's equally plausible that there are other NYC places good enough to be on the list that are excluded for other reasons, and this is just speculation which encourages confirmation bias. Personally, I've had a number of Michelin star meals in a few countries in Europe (which are more represented on this list) and I did not find them better (nor were they cheaper) than the ones I've had here.
\*\*I appreciate the challenges that the NYC ( i.e. Manhattan, Williamsburg and some parts of Queens) landscape is facing, but there are dozens of layers and nuanced realities that lead to this, so what once was groundbreaking and amazing has become a moneyed playground.. its no longer a dining city. I believe that a purge is coming, I am bracing for it. I honestly hope not. So far I have found some of the most honest, delicious, classic, contemporary, exciting dining to be in Westchester and Upstate NY.. again, we shall see. Currently the once hot and "hip" areas of NYC bore me to tears and I, for one, will not gift them my time or money.
That is true but has nothing to do with this list. Half the list is restaurants in extremely expensive cities - Hong Kong, London, Paris, Stockholm and Tokyo are peppering the list. Not to mention the top-50 is almost entirely composed of ultra-expensive ultra-luxury tasting menu restaurants, the frequency, quality and success of which has little to do with whether rent is affordable. If the list had other American cities featured, I might buy your logic (eg chefs are migrating to lower cost areas rather than New York). But I think it’s pretty unfair to say there’s only one top-50-worthy cuisine in the most populous developed country in the world. I think there’s a pretty clear anti-American bias in the list
it has to do with the way they do the rankings. I don’t remember the exact process off the top of my head but i believe there is no weighting for geographic density or things like that, so places with a lot of really good restaurants like NY and even Tokyo might be underrepresented on a list like this. Voters also would have less consensus due to more spots in NYC versus other cities with fewer options will have more overlap on the voter lists
I don't know, I do think the food scene in NYC has lost some magic post pandemic. There's no MUST TRY multi star restaurant today like there was ten years ago. Who wants to go to 11 Madison Park or Per Se or Masa now? We have a lot of very fine bistros and a good selection of strong ethnic restaurants but where is the spot that folks around the world want to travel to try once, like an Alchemist or a Pujol or a Frantzen. BTW Atomix is the only American restaurant on the list. There are FOUR in Bangkok alone.
I’ve been to one of the ones in Bangkok, it was good but outclassed by many NYC spots.
Part of the secret to appearing on this list is having an active tourism board in the background luring journalists and influencers to the city the the purpose of having them dine. They want to drive gastrotourism to their locales, so they fly voters out with the hope that they will vote for the restaurants and bring more visitors. NYC is not as committed to this as a place like Copenhagen is.
Because great chefs and even great bartenders seem to be very poorly paid here and they quit very quickly.
I think part of it is the population of people that can afford those places. In the US and NYC in particular, most of the people with the expendable income to drop 500pp on dinner are older and more conservative. They don't want something trendy and challenging and new, they want name-brand, white-tablecloth places like Daniel and Per Se and Le Bernardin. In Europe, places like Disfratur and Alchemist can thrive because there are more open-minded millenials with cash to drop on a meal like that. Obviously there are places on that list like Bogota and Bankok that have even worse income disparity, but that almost proves my point further. Rent and labor are so cheap there that it's easier to take the risk and open a high-end place that hopes to attract the rich tourists that are looking for an adventure.
Rosetta does not belong on there.
I would agree. There are 100 spots equal or better in nyc.
It’s so bad, vibe for sure, like a Tao group restaurant but not a dining/foodie experience
I used to assign this list a great deal of significance. But now, I think that as a guide for where to eat, it’s almost worthless. My reasons are pretty similar to the ones Pete Wells recently laid out. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/dining/what-makes-a-50-best-restaurant.html
> Forget asking whether these establishments are the best in the world. The bigger question is: Are they restaurants? I love Pete Wells
Nobelhart & Schmutzig is the real deal. Highly recommend if you’re in Berlin.
Seconded, N&S is excellent. Tim Raue does not deserve to be on the list, was uninteresting and mediocre.
Restaurants on this list are always pretentious twoddle.
Broad generalization. TBH while the rankings are a bit random I've almost always had excellent meals at many on here. The three CDMX spots are all fantastic for example.
Pujol wasn't pretentious? Are you crazy ?
Pujol to me was not pretentious at all. It was fancy (but nowhere near as fancy as starred restaurants in France or Sweden for example), but still warm and welcoming. I liked Quintonil even better. Maybe you are not into fine dining establishments which is fine, it's not for everyone, a certain amount of theater is expected, an artistic approach to food, sometimes those things work sometimes they don't but it's cool to see what they try. Look I love hole-in-the-walls as well, but I want all the experiences.
The sommelier wearing a kimono told me all I needed to know.
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Definitely one of those cases where the review says more about the writer than the restaurant. Lol
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Ok, weirdo
Seem like you came in with unrealistic expectations and honestly sounding snobby. We went less than 6 months ago and thought the space was well designed. We specifically loved the Scandinavian minimalist style. The restroom, while not Texas size, was beautiful. You have to understand that this is Manhattan. Rent is EXPENSIVE. Space is hard to come by.