In the original novels by Ian Fleming, James Bond started out carrying a Beretta 418 in .25 ACP. The gun was modified with filed-down sights, the grip panels removed, and a threaded barrel for a suppressor. I can't currently find the original creator of this replica.
Detachable silencer is to provide the option for quiet shots filing down the sights was a popular way to reduce draw snags for pocket carry and i have no idea why the grips would be removed maybe they are relatively bulky and its easer to conceal without them
The grips provide a very slight slimming down, and tape will help you keep a grip and disable the grip safety so you can shoot with a poor grip without catching your hands in the magazine's moving inside. He normally kept the gun heavily concealed under his clothes and the suppressor in his luggage for when it was needed (in From Russia With Love his attache case included a fake Palmolive shaving cream can that hid it) because it was only meant for emergencies. He used bigger guns when necessary.
.25 ACP is ballistically similar to .22 LR in a centerfire form, so a good suppressor would make it so quiet that most people in an urban setting wouldn't even notice.
Boothroyd who i believe was the person you're referring to, originally suggested that bond should use a revolver in 44MAG. eventually agreeing that a weapon of that size would be impractical for a spy. as Fleming wanted bond to use a modern autoloading handgun they eventually settled on the PPK. Though interestingly enough in live and let die roger moore's bond does use a 44MAG revolver, influenced by Boothroyds suggestion. Though they used the M29, rather than Boothroyds preference of the ruger
there was a segment in a documentary in the 60s, where they interviewed Boothroyd, which is how this information came to light.
One thing that gets forgotten was bond in the books only went on adventures once a year or so, and most of the time he would be behind a desk. which to me would make something in 44MAG even less practical as I feel bond wouldn't be getting much trigger time in at work due to budget concerns, which would make the easier to shoot PPK a much more attractive choice in my opinion
YouTube video of the section, with Boothroyds unimpressed opinion about soft holsters, the beretta, and his impractical suggestion of carrying a hand cannon which he quickly dismisses - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU
Boothroyd wiki article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey\_Boothroyd
It was probably the best option in the late 50s when it was suggested. Bond's job was espionage, and he carried bigger guns like a .45 or a sniper rifle when necessary. The PPK is well-made, accurate for its size and era, has ergonomic controls not unlike more modern guns, and uses ammo that's easily available almost everywhere.
Which movie did he use this in?
Edit.. I googled it snagged on his waist band in from Russia with love, don’t know if he was using it before this movie
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_418
He mainly uses it in the early novels. The first EON Dond film Doctor No has M immediately order Bond to give up the pistol and replace it with something more powerful. And Major Boothroyd from the armoury gives him the now legendary Walther PPK in 7.65mm instead.
The name of the major is a nod to the fact that in the novels, Bond replaces the Beretta with the Walther because one of the readers, a gun enthusiast by the name of Boothroyd had sent a letter to Ian Fleming explaining with a meager .25ACP would not be a good choice for someone like Bond who regularly gets into gunfights. Fleming and Boothroyd exchanged letters. Fleming didn't really know guns and simply chose the Beretta because that is what he was issued in the Naval Intelligence and Boothroyd wrote several letters about guns for reference in future novels.
Boothroyd eventually suggested the Walther PPK because it was stil concealable despite being chambered in the much more powerful 7.65mm/.32ACP (I can already hear modern gun nuts laugh but in the 1960s, caliber wars had not evolved to the current state and there were plenty of militaries and police forces that used .32ACP pistols) and a common gun in a very commonly used caliber, which made it a good choice for a spy who needs a concealable weapon that can not be easily traced to MI6 or any other intelligence agency and for which he can get ammo easily no matter what country he is in.
Edit: fixed a few mistakes.
Also, the scene in the novel has Boothroyd cover multiple guns that he tested and rejected for Bond instead of the PPK: the TT-33, the Nambu Type 14, and the Sauer 38H.
I want to know the context of why he felt the need to test Nambu Type 14.
So far my best quesses are either "Just thought it was a funny idea" and "you see, no enemy agency would think that a professional spy would arm himself with a Type 14, so they would instead think that you are some sort of madman who escaped from a loony bin."
Here's the direct quote:
*‘Well, Armourer, what do you recommend?’*
*Major Boothroyd put on the expert’s voice. ‘As a matter of fact, sir,’ he said modestly, ‘I’ve just been testing most of the small automatics. Five thousand rounds each at twenty-five yards. Of all of them, I’d choose the Walther PPK 7.65 mm. It only came fourth after the Japanese M-14, the Russian Tokarev and the Sauer M-38. But I like its light trigger pull and the extension spur of the magazine gives a grip that should suit 007. It’s a real stopping gun. Of course it’s about a .32 calibre as compared with the Beretta’s .25, but I wouldn’t recommend anything lighter. And you can get ammunition for the Walther anywhere in the world. That gives it an edge on the Japanese and the Russian guns.’*
Damn a Type 14 lasting 5,000 rounds would be a miracle.
Also the thought of the armorer going through tens of thousands of rounds of odd calibers just to pick a gun for Bond. You'd think he'd at least let Bond handle them to disqualify a few
I did a thread on Something Awful reading and analyzing the Fleming books. The TT-33 and Type 14 are way too big for his kind of regular work and don't use very common ammo, and the 38H is slightly larger than the PPK. Fleming gave Bond the 418 because he personally carried a .25 in WW2 in his naval intelligence job and wasn't a big gun enthusiast.
Based on the quote, it seems like it wasn't a test made specifically for Bond. He had just been testing all types of pistols and was therefore recommending the gun that he deemed the best gun in the test, even if it wasn't the most accurate one.
Good read, thanks !
Another edit , I think i remember the scene in the movie. It’s been a while since I watched it, but remember I think Bond getting a boxed ppk.
Here you go for those wondering .
https://youtu.be/tU98uP7pXA8
Actually, Bond doesn't use this in any of the films. The films start with Dr No, which was the novel where he gets the PPK and has to give up the Beretta.
From Russia with love was the novel where the injury happened and the novel was before Dr No story, but since the films did things in different order, the film of the novel From Russia with love has Bond use the PPK.
Another fun fact about Bond's guns. In the earlier novels, where he carried the 418, he also had what was written as a Colt Army Special he kept in the Bentley. When issued the PPK, he was issued a S&W .357 to replace the Colt.
It's unclear exactly what gun he had in his car, since in From A View to a Kill he describes applying a safety like a 1911. He gets a Smith & Wesson Airweight .38 in Dr. No to go with the PPK and he leaves the PPK in his luggage, losing the revolver when captured and never replacing it. It takes a few stories for him to even fire the PPK after getting it.
His normal backup gun was a Colt Police Positive with the barrel sawed down, hidden under his pillow when sleeping. In The Spy Who Loved Me, he gives it to Viv to back him up in the climactic gunfight.
The books didn't have much gadgetry in them. The villains actually used more elaborate stuff most of the time. Bond was normally on missions where his weapon was for emergency self-defense so he carried the smallest suppressed handgun he could hide in his clothes and removed the grip panels and sights to slim it down further.
A lot of the descriptions are left up to interpretation and/or deliberately vague. For instance: Fleming never mentions the model of the gun itself by name, merely the fact that it is a Beretta, and that it is .25 caliber. It is *of course* a 418, because that's the only available option at the time of writing, but other modifications made to the piece are a little more murky.
One such example is the grips: They're described as being "Skeleton" grips. Most people take this to mean that the panels are simply removed, but if you've ever fooled with this gun, you'll quickly realize that apart from the more obvious fouling issues, it's entirely possible to accidentally fire the gun if you accidentally get your fingers/an errant fold of shirt (or, say, some friction tape...) into the open grip area.
Thus: On my current (in progress) interpretive build of the Bond 418, I milled the factory grips as flat as is structurally possible (they are quite bulky, stock) and placed a viewing window in them, to meet the "skeleton" requirement and make it possible to view the remaining rounds in the magazine.
For sure. I actually pinned mine on the current build, but the tape is mentioned in the novels, I just find it kind of...icky. I'd certainly slap it on there for a photoshoot but I have no interest in shooting it that way.
First gun I ever shot, in the Arabian desert outside of Dhahran. Foreigners were not allowed to possess guns but we lived in an expat compound. I was about 8 or 9 when my dad took me out there and let me shoot it.
He sold it to a coworker when we left. The people in the community knew who had guns and when, during the 6 Day War, a lot of local Saudis broke into the compound and began destroying property and threatening to kill Americans.
The guy who bought the gun, a doctor, fired several rounds into the air as the angry mob approached and that stopped them.
It’s bark might be loader than it’s bite, but it worked.
My
It took a bit but I found the original video.
[https://youtu.be/g5BcvbSzCzI](https://youtu.be/g5BcvbSzCzI)
The suppressor was a dummy that he attached.
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I don't live in a free state but I've always wanted to build a modernized James Bond style handgun. Like a suppressed Sig p238 or Beretta Tomcat with a micro red dot or something along those lines.
He carries the .25 from Casino Royale through From Russia with Love. The snagged silencer is during the finale shootout with Rosa Klebb. Doctor No starts with him getting the PPK and a Smith and Wesson .38.
This is the gun Ian Fleming issued Bond in the original books. In Dr. No, on advice from firearms expert Geoffrey Boothroyd, he had Bond forced to switch to a .32 PPK.
In the original novels by Ian Fleming, James Bond started out carrying a Beretta 418 in .25 ACP. The gun was modified with filed-down sights, the grip panels removed, and a threaded barrel for a suppressor. I can't currently find the original creator of this replica.
I’m curious why those modifications would be made?
Detachable silencer is to provide the option for quiet shots filing down the sights was a popular way to reduce draw snags for pocket carry and i have no idea why the grips would be removed maybe they are relatively bulky and its easer to conceal without them
The grips provide a very slight slimming down, and tape will help you keep a grip and disable the grip safety so you can shoot with a poor grip without catching your hands in the magazine's moving inside. He normally kept the gun heavily concealed under his clothes and the suppressor in his luggage for when it was needed (in From Russia With Love his attache case included a fake Palmolive shaving cream can that hid it) because it was only meant for emergencies. He used bigger guns when necessary. .25 ACP is ballistically similar to .22 LR in a centerfire form, so a good suppressor would make it so quiet that most people in an urban setting wouldn't even notice.
[удалено]
Boothroyd who i believe was the person you're referring to, originally suggested that bond should use a revolver in 44MAG. eventually agreeing that a weapon of that size would be impractical for a spy. as Fleming wanted bond to use a modern autoloading handgun they eventually settled on the PPK. Though interestingly enough in live and let die roger moore's bond does use a 44MAG revolver, influenced by Boothroyds suggestion. Though they used the M29, rather than Boothroyds preference of the ruger there was a segment in a documentary in the 60s, where they interviewed Boothroyd, which is how this information came to light. One thing that gets forgotten was bond in the books only went on adventures once a year or so, and most of the time he would be behind a desk. which to me would make something in 44MAG even less practical as I feel bond wouldn't be getting much trigger time in at work due to budget concerns, which would make the easier to shoot PPK a much more attractive choice in my opinion YouTube video of the section, with Boothroyds unimpressed opinion about soft holsters, the beretta, and his impractical suggestion of carrying a hand cannon which he quickly dismisses - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU Boothroyd wiki article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey\_Boothroyd
That’s makes a lot of sense. I always thought the PPK was a dumb spy gun, even if it was tiny.
It was probably the best option in the late 50s when it was suggested. Bond's job was espionage, and he carried bigger guns like a .45 or a sniper rifle when necessary. The PPK is well-made, accurate for its size and era, has ergonomic controls not unlike more modern guns, and uses ammo that's easily available almost everywhere.
I guess that’s a good point. The 50’s was still inventing concealable weapons.
He initially chose the 418 because it's what the government issued him when he was a spook during WWII
[удалено]
It probably just won’t sound like a shot which is good enough
100db
"Nice and light... in a lady's handbag."
Which movie did he use this in? Edit.. I googled it snagged on his waist band in from Russia with love, don’t know if he was using it before this movie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_418
He mainly uses it in the early novels. The first EON Dond film Doctor No has M immediately order Bond to give up the pistol and replace it with something more powerful. And Major Boothroyd from the armoury gives him the now legendary Walther PPK in 7.65mm instead. The name of the major is a nod to the fact that in the novels, Bond replaces the Beretta with the Walther because one of the readers, a gun enthusiast by the name of Boothroyd had sent a letter to Ian Fleming explaining with a meager .25ACP would not be a good choice for someone like Bond who regularly gets into gunfights. Fleming and Boothroyd exchanged letters. Fleming didn't really know guns and simply chose the Beretta because that is what he was issued in the Naval Intelligence and Boothroyd wrote several letters about guns for reference in future novels. Boothroyd eventually suggested the Walther PPK because it was stil concealable despite being chambered in the much more powerful 7.65mm/.32ACP (I can already hear modern gun nuts laugh but in the 1960s, caliber wars had not evolved to the current state and there were plenty of militaries and police forces that used .32ACP pistols) and a common gun in a very commonly used caliber, which made it a good choice for a spy who needs a concealable weapon that can not be easily traced to MI6 or any other intelligence agency and for which he can get ammo easily no matter what country he is in. Edit: fixed a few mistakes.
Also, the scene in the novel has Boothroyd cover multiple guns that he tested and rejected for Bond instead of the PPK: the TT-33, the Nambu Type 14, and the Sauer 38H.
I want to know the context of why he felt the need to test Nambu Type 14. So far my best quesses are either "Just thought it was a funny idea" and "you see, no enemy agency would think that a professional spy would arm himself with a Type 14, so they would instead think that you are some sort of madman who escaped from a loony bin."
Here's the direct quote: *‘Well, Armourer, what do you recommend?’* *Major Boothroyd put on the expert’s voice. ‘As a matter of fact, sir,’ he said modestly, ‘I’ve just been testing most of the small automatics. Five thousand rounds each at twenty-five yards. Of all of them, I’d choose the Walther PPK 7.65 mm. It only came fourth after the Japanese M-14, the Russian Tokarev and the Sauer M-38. But I like its light trigger pull and the extension spur of the magazine gives a grip that should suit 007. It’s a real stopping gun. Of course it’s about a .32 calibre as compared with the Beretta’s .25, but I wouldn’t recommend anything lighter. And you can get ammunition for the Walther anywhere in the world. That gives it an edge on the Japanese and the Russian guns.’*
Damn a Type 14 lasting 5,000 rounds would be a miracle. Also the thought of the armorer going through tens of thousands of rounds of odd calibers just to pick a gun for Bond. You'd think he'd at least let Bond handle them to disqualify a few
I did a thread on Something Awful reading and analyzing the Fleming books. The TT-33 and Type 14 are way too big for his kind of regular work and don't use very common ammo, and the 38H is slightly larger than the PPK. Fleming gave Bond the 418 because he personally carried a .25 in WW2 in his naval intelligence job and wasn't a big gun enthusiast.
Based on the quote, it seems like it wasn't a test made specifically for Bond. He had just been testing all types of pistols and was therefore recommending the gun that he deemed the best gun in the test, even if it wasn't the most accurate one.
Good read, thanks ! Another edit , I think i remember the scene in the movie. It’s been a while since I watched it, but remember I think Bond getting a boxed ppk. Here you go for those wondering . https://youtu.be/tU98uP7pXA8
leave it to reddit to downvote an interesting and factual comment e: TIL something that a lot of bond fans know already
This comment is like the viggo broke his foot of bond trivia is why I'd say it got downvoted
I’d never heard it, apparently neither had a number of fans in these comments.
as someone who is a Beretta enthusiast but not Bond obsessed...I had no idea that was his sidearm before the iconic walther
Aye fair, my comment comes off way more arsehole-ish than i meant it too. I was just awake at the time
Great comment!!
Actually, Bond doesn't use this in any of the films. The films start with Dr No, which was the novel where he gets the PPK and has to give up the Beretta. From Russia with love was the novel where the injury happened and the novel was before Dr No story, but since the films did things in different order, the film of the novel From Russia with love has Bond use the PPK.
We are not talking about Movie Bond, sorry!
Read the previous comment, they asked about movie Bond.
Sorry
[Internet Movie Firearms Database - Beretta 418](https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Beretta_418)
Another fun fact about Bond's guns. In the earlier novels, where he carried the 418, he also had what was written as a Colt Army Special he kept in the Bentley. When issued the PPK, he was issued a S&W .357 to replace the Colt.
It's unclear exactly what gun he had in his car, since in From A View to a Kill he describes applying a safety like a 1911. He gets a Smith & Wesson Airweight .38 in Dr. No to go with the PPK and he leaves the PPK in his luggage, losing the revolver when captured and never replacing it. It takes a few stories for him to even fire the PPK after getting it. His normal backup gun was a Colt Police Positive with the barrel sawed down, hidden under his pillow when sleeping. In The Spy Who Loved Me, he gives it to Viv to back him up in the climactic gunfight.
I never understood this. Q could make all the fancy shit, but they took the grips off the pistol and replaced it with hockey tape? Seriously?
The books didn't have much gadgetry in them. The villains actually used more elaborate stuff most of the time. Bond was normally on missions where his weapon was for emergency self-defense so he carried the smallest suppressed handgun he could hide in his clothes and removed the grip panels and sights to slim it down further.
Definitely preferred to leave large openings for dirt and debris to enter for increased reliability.
its inside a suit pocket
Lint
Foiled again
Lint gets everywhere even in you're belly button.
Maybe that's why the Beretta jammed and he was in a hospital for six months.
In the book the suppressor gets caught on the holster. He keeps it in a soft chamois leather shoulder holster that doesn't print.
A lot of the descriptions are left up to interpretation and/or deliberately vague. For instance: Fleming never mentions the model of the gun itself by name, merely the fact that it is a Beretta, and that it is .25 caliber. It is *of course* a 418, because that's the only available option at the time of writing, but other modifications made to the piece are a little more murky. One such example is the grips: They're described as being "Skeleton" grips. Most people take this to mean that the panels are simply removed, but if you've ever fooled with this gun, you'll quickly realize that apart from the more obvious fouling issues, it's entirely possible to accidentally fire the gun if you accidentally get your fingers/an errant fold of shirt (or, say, some friction tape...) into the open grip area. Thus: On my current (in progress) interpretive build of the Bond 418, I milled the factory grips as flat as is structurally possible (they are quite bulky, stock) and placed a viewing window in them, to meet the "skeleton" requirement and make it possible to view the remaining rounds in the magazine.
I guess the Tape is there to fool the back safety.
For sure. I actually pinned mine on the current build, but the tape is mentioned in the novels, I just find it kind of...icky. I'd certainly slap it on there for a photoshoot but I have no interest in shooting it that way.
am I crazy or does XXXX use this in L4yer Cake? (Considering it stars Daniel Craig that would be one hell of a coincidence.)
Negative - that was a Chinese type 67
Aw man, that would've been cool
My dude really fucking was rocking no grips and goon tape what a sav
"That's a Smith & Wesson, and you've had your six"
Ole Unreliable lol. Edit: I remembered it jamming as well. I’ll take your word for it that it was the suppressor getting snagged.
First gun I ever shot, in the Arabian desert outside of Dhahran. Foreigners were not allowed to possess guns but we lived in an expat compound. I was about 8 or 9 when my dad took me out there and let me shoot it. He sold it to a coworker when we left. The people in the community knew who had guns and when, during the 6 Day War, a lot of local Saudis broke into the compound and began destroying property and threatening to kill Americans. The guy who bought the gun, a doctor, fired several rounds into the air as the angry mob approached and that stopped them. It’s bark might be loader than it’s bite, but it worked. My
I wonder what can this is - I recently bought a YHM Sidewinder to get this clean / vintage look.
What can is that?
It took a bit but I found the original video. [https://youtu.be/g5BcvbSzCzI](https://youtu.be/g5BcvbSzCzI) The suppressor was a dummy that he attached.
Nice, thanks. Ive been looking for a old school, simplistic can thats functional. Unfortunately the search continues!
I love the concealability for cloak and dagger work lol.
Recognized it immediately while scrolling, even though I only knew it from the books. Well done to whoever’s responsible!
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I don't live in a free state but I've always wanted to build a modernized James Bond style handgun. Like a suppressed Sig p238 or Beretta Tomcat with a micro red dot or something along those lines.
He carries the .25 from Casino Royale through From Russia with Love. The snagged silencer is during the finale shootout with Rosa Klebb. Doctor No starts with him getting the PPK and a Smith and Wesson .38.
Centennial Airweight .38 Sp, had to check the book.
It’s amazing what airweight relatively means. The new airweights are incredibly light, like a full-power .38 has a hell of a kick.
scene in Dr No when he cold bloodly kills some guy in a hotel room ? early Bond when closer to Ian Fleming's 007
32acp or .380?
.25
Really? Thought 007 only used 32 or 380
This is the gun Ian Fleming issued Bond in the original books. In Dr. No, on advice from firearms expert Geoffrey Boothroyd, he had Bond forced to switch to a .32 PPK.
Oh that's interesting! Never thought of the books! The few I read were really good