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Is this from some kind of mirror universe? Never would I have expected an article, where the author wishes spider-man was marxist, to be published on a site like this.
EDIT: Well, at least the Sam Riami spider-man hated landlords
/ujI think I remember TheGamer being pretty left leaning when it came to opinion pieces, but maybe I’m thinking of something else.
/rj What kind of world do we live in where the one and only Gamer is pandering to the woke mob??
Bro the cops in every superhero universe fucking suck at their job
If the cops in marvel were good cops there’s be literally no reason for the superheroes to exist.
Picture the scene; spider man swings around the corner and slams into the ground at the scene of the crime. Thankfully, the police already caught the guy, so spider man can just fuck right off.
*THE END.*
/rj Just look at this picture. It's so absolutely purely apolitical. No politics in sight anywhere. Just like the Punisher. Nothing political to see there. Like... AT ALL.
I think the bigger issue is that in the game Spider-Man is completely ok with helping to set up a monitoring system that tracks crimes all across New York. It’s for cops and funded by Oscorp, so you just know it’s being used to spy on innocent civilians.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with discussing things like this, it’s not like I’m saying people shouldn’t play the game or it’s bad because of that. Purely from an in universe perspective Oscorp is a corrupt company, it’s not “nitpicking” to theorize the real reason a corp like that would want to fund a city wide tracking system.
Shame on me for wanting to think deeper about the games I play and not just shutting my brain off I guess.
To a degree, yes you're right, but things that aren't intentionally put in the spotlight can still be subject to analysis of "huh you know that's kind of messed up/thought provoking/etc" Elder Scrolls is full of that, and it's valuable and fun discussion.
But in this case my point is pointless anyways because the towers are actually in the spotlight. Jameson and I think some other characters + the social media app IN THE GAME ITSELF have spoken commentary on "hey isn't this kind of fucked up? And a little bit more messed up that spiderman, a person without government oversight, is using them?" There is more to it than "woah cool minimap"
O B J E C T I V E L Y
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The issue with fictional stories about “good cops” is that it maintains and perpetuates a narrative that has real world consequences. These kinds of fictional stories do shape how we view real life scenarios and situations, and the massive deluge of cop shows and whatnot all create positive associations with cops and the criminal justice system that is not only unwarranted, but actually props up a harmful system.
Fair points all around, truly. That being said, I feel like the cops in this game mainly just stand around in the street impotently firing their guns at nothing, waiting for Spider-Man to bust skulls. Idk how many positive associations are coming from that.
Name one superhero who commonly works with cops where there aren’t multiple major storylines where the cops are corrupt. For Spider-Manin this very game his cop partner becomes a vigilante who kills criminals, and in the comics his old cop partner was working for the kingpin.
Batman has Batman year one where it is made explicitly clear that cops suck.
Batman exists in a hell city where it's basically a war zone and pretty much everyone but Gordon and his squad are depicted as absolutely terrible and corrupt mobsters.
If you go read pulp fiction and other old crime genres, you will find that quite often the hardboiled detective or whoever actually works against the police, where the police are at best portrayed as incompetant and at worst corrupt/actively aiding the criminals. The massive mainstream cop worship narrative is a very new, and politically charged, narrative decision.
If it were a russian tv show glorifying the military or cops or whatever I feel like you’d call it out as propaganda, but I guess since its the usa its okay to worship the military and police?
Well, yeah...if the police are competent good guys in a detective story, the detective wouldn't have anything to do... I'm not pro-copaganda, and going around demanding all cops are portrayed as heroes. I'm just saying that portraying a non-problematic police force to work alongside Spider-Man hurts nobody.
I think the issue there is: Cops are actual people actively making society worse.
Spider-man is a fictional superhero that no one could ever be no matter how much they want to. And you'll never actually meat him. But you CAN meet cops, and it's a little frustrating that almost all media involving police portrays them in a light that is at worst neutral and regularly some kind of paragons of justice and morals. But they aren't. And maybe we'd like to see people stop pretending they are? Maybe it'd be nice if this game that is marketed with one of the most popular heroes ever doesn't spend it's time praising police after... I mean, do you want me to start picking incidents, or can we just agree it's a lot?
> Spider-man is a fictional superhero that no one could ever be no matter how much they want to.
Watch me, I will get bitten by spiders to prove you wrong !!!
Update : I'm in the hospital
Superhero stories can deal with real life stuff, but a lot of it is escapism. It provides role models. Portraying police as good, friendly, non-violent hometown heroes isn't bad, IMO. It's neutral. It doesn't tackle the issues but it doesn't make them worse.
The real copaganda is giving murderous, edgy assholes like Frank Castle, the Punisher, so much time in the spotlight as the protagonist, or sympathetic anti-hero/villain instead of a straight up villain who gets defeated in the end. That's actually harmful bullshit right there. Some over-competent white guy going around killing criminals and getting away with it...doesn't matter how many comic book panels where you have him say "I like Captain America <3 and i'm a big meanie" if he still does this shit and has his own Netlfix shows.
Asshole cops IRL don't go around with little images of Miles Morales' wholesome cop dad on their assault rifles.
This isn't something you can " go neutral " on. Spending a game beating up dudes who have drugs and praising cops and calling yourself " Spider-cop " are all things that actively glorify police and the current War on Drugs. They didn't HAVE to add any of that into the game. It'd still be an amazing game without any of that. But they added it, and because it's there it's something that can be critiqued.
And I don't think it's exactly fair to compare this situation to Frank Castle. Beyond the fact that he's an anti-hero, having him literally tell cops to quit worshiping him is about as good as you can get. It isn't even subtle. If you're going to critique him for having a panel that literally makes the position clear, you can't ignore the way Spider-man is praising cops.
There isn't anything wrong, in my opinion with the Punisher. He is NOT a hero, he is the lesser of many evils. And that doesn't make him good, and he doesn't pretend to BE good. Anti-heroes are not the issue here. The cultural issue is that police offices would rather identify with a homicidal maniac than a hero who actually lives to defend the laws they swear to uphold. If it wasn't him, it'd be Judged Dredd. If it wasn't Dredd, it'd be Deadpool, or Deathstroke, or any number of other anti-heroes. It'd be Boba Fett. They would find SOME character that represents their desire to cause harm to " bad guys " and graph onto them.
So what makes Spider-man an issue here? He isn't influencing cops, he's influencing CIVILIANS. He is actively telling civilians: " It's ok guys! Cops are your friends! They're the good guys! They're all right. I am kinda like a cop you know. And you trust me! So you should trust them too. \*insert heart emoji\* ". And some kids will grow up with that, or teens, or even young adults and put themselves in dangerous situations because " the police are safe. They'll help me ". But they don't. They'll find out it was propaganda and a lie when they get hurt. Or their friends get hurt. Or their dog gets shot. Or their neighbor gets raided and killed for waking up in terror to a " no knock warrant ". Or any number of things. That's why we're worried about Spider-man making cops seem ok. It puts innocent people in danger, because it teaches them subconsciously that cops are safe.
Okay, nevermind. I thought you would at least agree with the obvious fact that the Punisher is extremely problematic. Considering that you have no evidence of your claims about Spider-Man, and the Punisher Skull is currently being co-opted by the far right.
I read the whole thing. There's just no point. You're wildly anti-cop, to the point where you think portraying them as neutral is getting people killed. As if there aren't a million or more interactions with cops every day that you don't hear about where things go perfectly fine. There have been tragedies that need to be resolved but you're over here....I don't even know what your end goal is. You want everyone to distrust and ignore the police because they're all murderous criminals. If I'm going to talk to you about this anymore, I'm going to have to talk to you about that, and I have no interest in doing so because there's no way of changing your mind about that.
Edit: And when I tried to level with you, you totally dismissed my criticism of the Punisher. Which is frankly ridiculous.
Please enlighten me as to how portraying cops as good and friendly is “neutral.” Like the other guy said, depictions like that - fictional or otherwise - only reinforce the false narratives surrounding police officers and our criminal justice systems at large that have hindered political progress in the U.S.A for decades.
People are saying this because he works with the police chief and does a grizzled detective impression while calling himself spidercop like 3 times in the game despite the fact that most of the time the cops are actively against him helping saying things like “we have it under control” and “we didn’t need your help”
It's the sable guys that say stuff like "we didn't need your help". The police officers thank him instead.
Playing the game now, so it's fresh in my memory.
I have no dog in this whole fight, I think it's silly to care about super hero fiction like it actually changes real life.
I agree, but sometimes when you stop street crimes the police will say something along the lines of “we didn’t need your help” happens a lot more near the start of the game
one thing that was pointed out to me that i havent been able to ignore since is that superheroes arent changing things for the better, their entire purpose is to uphold the status quo. usually the villain is somebody who has been wronged by society and is trying to change it, challenging the status quo. the superheroes job is to basically put an end to that threat to society. its like if a cop breaks up a protest, they just want to stop people from trying to change things. obviously thats over simplified and these movies have more to em, but thats generally the formula they all follow. they always make it so the villain does irredeemable things and is actually a shitty person, so whatever cause theyre fighting for becomes synonymous with evil. its honestly why black panther works as well as it does. the villain is sympathetic and by the end our hero realizes that upholding the status quo isnt enough and he also needs to take action, he just makes sure that he doesnt do it the same way the villain did.
I think there’s been a change over time in terms of who superheroes fought against, though. While it’s not like there are many villainous cops in superhero media, original Superman comics tended to pit him against corrupt landlords and such, before it changed (I reckon in the 50’s and 60’s) to him fighting back robbers and the like. Originally, he was fighting against corrupt systems that oppressed the vulnerable and maintained the status quo - and I think, to an extent, that’s what Superman often does in modern comics when he’s written well. His most iconic villain, for instance, is Lex Luthor, a corrupt business tycoon/politician who often oppresses others through means that are immoral, but not illegal.
I know that’s all Superman stuff and not Spider-Man, because that’s mostly what I know, but I think it’s important to note that superheroes fighting for and against the status quo varies depending on individual writers, as well as the time period in which it’s written.
That's why I liked season 1 of Arrow: Oliver Queen literally just goes around murdering rich people in cold blood. Shame they dropped it and it just became the usual.
At worst the cops don't necessarily trust Spider-man, save Yuri Lowenthal and Miles's dad. But in general the boys in blue are presented as the good guys.
Which is funny because the game has a faction in the latter half that do all the bad shit cops and are meant to be a commentary on police and military abuse against civilians.
Not really. In the latter half of the game you fight armored military fascists who abuse their authority and detain protesting civilians. Not a very subtle message. >!And in the DLC, the captain who we thought was a "good" cop basically goes off the deep end and starts murdering criminals so make of that what you will.!<
EDIT: forgot to add that Spidey literally beats up dirty cops in the very first mission.
Ok, but the NYPD is in the game, and are depicted as a good organization which is not accurate to reality. I’m glad Spidey beats up the aggressive military fascist organization. That’s the bare minimum.
Spider-Man never claims the system we have is bad, only that individual cops are the problem. But that’s how superhero media is.
I don't really see the game as being explicitly pro cop or anti cop. The cops in the game (other than Yuri or Jefferson Davis) are mostly just props who are there in the background.
And while I agree that most superhero media (maybe besides Daredevil) don't really adress political stuff, the in-game explanation for Spider-Man not claiming the system is broken is because he needs a way for the villains he takes down to be locked up and the only way he can think of is the police.
Yeah, stories still gotta happen so there has to be a functioning "bad guys go here and cant get out" system in-universe, or else Spidey would have to kill them all to end the movie. Not a great look when he has a villain whose whole thing is buying medicine for his sick daughter.
If we had actual accurate NYPD in game, Kingpin would be literally invincible and unarrestable and Venom would get let out due to mishandling of evidence, not a fun way to sell toys.
Superman uses the Phantom Zone for that same story reason, but that's more because like, you can't just put General Zod or Darkseid in Genpop at Riker's.
One of the earlier arcs is about Kingpin getting caught on video murdering someone in cold blood and he just travels abroad for a few months while his expensive lawyer team handles it and then he's back like nothing happened. Yeah, I'd say that's accurate lol
Well I mean I don't think it'd be hard to write a Spiderman story where he has to real with a realistic police force, I think it fits very well in with the general idea behind Spiderman.
They've definitely done it, the ultimate universe has a lot of it, like Miles realizing cops are nice to him when the mask is on, its just not as good at selling toys. It can be fun for Spiderman stories but they usually give bad cop stories to the Punisher or Daredevil because they're not the ones on every kids backpack.
Yeah, that’s fair. I understand the need for a reliable way to lock up the actual supervillains. I’m just frustrated that a lot of people who play these games miss/don’t care about/ don’t want critical analysis of games at all, especially when it tackles issues that many people deal with in reality
I appreciate your perspective
>!In the DLC Spidey also teams up and kinda fawns over the fascist PMC leader in taking down her team who went "rogue" which very much plays into the idea its not the system (here being fascist militia police state) thats in the wrong, its rogue evildoers coincidentally in said system!<
I found Spider-Man 's portrayal of cops to be so passive and boring that I don't see it to be that harmful. Like others have said, the latter half turns Manhattan into a private military state, and the word fascist is used fairly liberally to describe them (in combat quips). There are a few cops that are your friends, but the story barely felt like it was about cops or pro cop to me. SM also says stuff like 'Cops aren't a fan of mine but that doesn't mean I want them to die'.
The surveillance state thing, I just chalk up to "We have to assume Spider Man is basically benevolent because this is a modern Marvel product".
I would definitely like to see a source on that.
But the MCU as a whole seems rather anti establishment. Captain America starts as a symbol of America and refuses to see the farce any longer.
Tony realized what he’s doing is killing people oversees and stops making weapons for the military.
I haven’t seen the Hulk in a long time because I don’t like it, but I remember the bad guys being the military.
IM2 shows how the military is willing to get any technology it wants to kill people, although it’s admittedly not as anti military as the rest.
The government council is willing to nuke a city in Avengers
Thor is the only Phase 1 movie that isn’t anti military iirc, and that’s just phase 1.
Yeah Captain Marvel was pretty much the only pro military MCU project I can remember. Maybe Guardians? The first Captain America movie definitely, but definitely not Captain America as a whole character.
Did the air force even really factor into Captain Marvel outside of the beginning? The deal the military offers only requires that you don't make them look bad, which is iffy, but most movies aren't aiming to criticize the military to begin with.
Nah, most of the Marvel movies are anti military, or at least don’t shine a positive light on the military. Captain Marvel was the only movie with an earth military that wasn’t villainized or antagonized in general
The issue is that it still upholds the logic of a millitary. There are big evil forces around us that we need to violently defend against in the name of good. It's answer too it is way worse than any millitary organisation. Instead of combinig the forces of different citicens in a collective struggle Marvel portrays powerfull individualls, standing above democracy and mankind as a whole as the only way to solve issues
How would you do an action story with a central protagonist that isn't about a powerful individual solving problems? Spartacus is about a guy bypassing democracy, and obviously no one here is going to say his cause wasn't just. The same applies to Spider-man taking it upon himself to stop a mad scientist from creating a miniature sun in hell's kitchen. Most superhero actions are justifiable in the context of their world.
Thats called storytelling in general.
Would the Witcher series be military propaganda? There are big evil sources around
you that you need to defend violently for the greater good. It’s a powerful individual standing above democracy and man, elf, whatever kind to solve issues
Is the Percy Jackson series military propaganda? Again, violent forces of good against problematic ally threatening evil.
Is chess military propaganda? Of course it is, go look at r/anarchychess
Is religion propaganda? David killed Goliath using violence to vanquish evil and allow good to prosper.
None of these are military logic, yet they match your definition to near perfection, because it’s not military propaganda, it’s human storytelling. Special good guy beats the bad guy, often using skillful methods that involve violence
You are comparing appels and pears and therebye completly depoliticicing Marvel. Aside from Percy Jackson maybe (I read one book years ago and therefore can't really make a statement on it) with human storytelling we are talking about outstanding human beings.
Achilles may be a greater hero then any of his man but he is still part of a human conflict and part of a active political strugle.
Marvel heros on the other side are not outstanding from a crowd, they are above the ground. They stand above every Politik strugle, human beings are just faceless background objects and things to safe. Marvels core ideologie is that powerfull individualls are objective forces for good that are the only way to safe humanity from inpending doom.
Please give some concrete examples of wtf you’re talking about. Are you really gonna pretend Marvel superheroes are not also part of their fictional society? Did you miss the numerous arcs over the decades that question the ethics of using and abusing power as superheroes can? In what universe have any of these characters been presented as “objective forces for good” as opposed to complex people who have power unexpectedly thrust into their hands?
The only “core ideology” of Marvel stories is that those who are granted power - by circumstance or otherwise - are responsible for the consequences of their actions and inaction. That’s it, Uncle Ben 101. Anything else is an extrapolation. “Might makes right” has not been a feature of Marvel stories for a long time, if ever.
Tbh you don’t sound like someone who’s actually familiar with these stories, and is instead badly paraphrasing a much more intelligent analysis on early superheroes being similar to fascist strongmen archetypes or something.
I don't blame comics for being centrists, but it's really what they are. They criticize the status quo but doesn't actually challenge it. There are the good military boys and the bad military boys, we are just supposed to remove the bad parts but keep the structure as is. They won't recognize sometimes the system must be remade from scratch.
One funny instance that almost slipped the cracks is Cp. America and the winter soldier. They presented all the reasons to make Cp. America leave the government for good. The USA government experimented on the first black super soldier, he pushed Walker over the edge, they screwed sams over an white super soldier. They treated refugees so badly they turned terrorists. And the solution to all this was sams giving a pep talk to the senators. It was comically bad
It’s not “funded by the us military”, Marvel’s funded consumers. They’ve been given resources from the military for certain films when they’re pro military enough and they’ve historically sold and exported comics to US troops but they don’t subsist off military payment
My favourite part in playing Miles morales was after stopping a crime and the police were everywhere, the victim was like “I guess I’ll call a cab to take me home.” I knew then that this was a very realistic depiction of new york police
/uj Y’all debating the ethics of beating up criminals and Spider-Man cooperating with the authorities like this isn’t a T-rated game about a boy who got bitten by a spider and fights a guy named Mr. Negative while making bad puns
I love how they hate cops so much that even me asking a question about it gets downvoted 💀💀😛
Like bruhhhh. Cops exist, and they are always going too. Spider-Man live in New York, and there are lots of cops in New York, and where does Spider-Man hang out at? Crime scenes like supervillain fights and where to cops go? Where the crime is lolll. Do people just not want cops in the game? I mean mister negative kills a bunch of cops, so they don’t act like they are immune or anything.
Worse than you might think. Cruising NYC and just like, being spiderman feels weird. At some point I beat the fuck out of some drug dealers and spiderman just goes "man I fucking LOVE badly hurting drug dealers". He repeatedly calls himself spidercop while being made aware of (and violently stopping) every crime in a ten mile radius, regardless of severity. In the latter half of the game ya start to feel like a superhero, but for a bit I just felt like I was brutalizing desperate and poor people
This is so blatantly exaggerated. You make it sound like Spider-Man is some sort of unironic take on Peacemaker. This game is not a psychotic fascistic power fantasy.
First off, you mention Spider-Man is always violently stopping crimes of any kind. The side-activity crimes you're almost always stopping are over-the-top comic book fare. He's not stopping people from shoplifting or people behind on their rent. He's stopping people from dangerously speeding through busy city streets, armed hostage situations, crimes like that. It's not like a criminal is going through Dog Day Afternoon and then ends with Spider-Man stopping them. These are people doing shit to serve their super-villain bosses. And even then, Spider-Man never kills these people. That immediately makes him better than any cop.
And when does Spider-Man ever say he likes beating up drug dealers? When are drug dealers even mentioned?
As far as that Spider-Cop stuff goes. That's primarily a joke to annoy his cop friend where there's already a working established relationship as there is with a lot of Spider-Man stories. Even Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse ends with Miles Morales working well with the cops.
Playing this game doesn't mean "Oh yeah I love cops" in the same way consuming Batman or Iron Man media doesn't exactly mean you like billionaires. You can suspend your disbelief as the game isn't about "oh man aren't cops great."
I am so, so tired of you people... etc etc, you all know it by now.
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He does the spider cop routine 3-4 times throughout the entire game and only does it when he fixes the broke. Police towers, the fuck are you talking about
There’s a very fun way to play the game and it’s when you get the phone call for a narcotics report, you just completely ignore it. Swing by and do nothing. I love being a spider man that just completely ignores certain crimes.
But they clearly did learn with miles morales because suddenly stopping drug crimes isn’t one of the random street crimes.
You miss exactly one type of crime per district.
Which isn't really even enough to have to start worrying about the crime tokens, you can get everything you want upgraded anyway.
That's not "so much content", you lose more by ignoring the science minigames.
Geez... Yeah thats pretty bad. Especially considering how marvels inspo for spiderman was the lack of police presence and so he invented a character to reprsent that workint class need for safety. Idk sounds wack
It not anywhere near this bad. Didn’t effect the game at all. Didn’t even notice it. Almost all the time you are fighting super villians, mafia members and escaped alien prisoners from rykers
Game dropped at a time of rampant and often discussed police brutality and murder, especially in areas like New York. Brutalizing petty criminals before they'd even hurt anyone (as spiderman expresses sadistic glee in doing so and also calls himself spidercop) took me out of the fun a few times
It dropped in 2018 it’s a remaster not a remake their not going to make many changes, so far the only change I’ve noticed aside from enhanced graphics is the pride flags
But I just don't see how stopping drug dealers is wrong? Spider-Man doesn't cripple them for life, and drug dealers are bad people. They ruin people's lives with addiction. If Spidey beats up the drug users that's a whole other thing but I don't think he's ever done that lmao.
I guess it's a suspension of disbelief thing. Like it takes place in a universe where drug dealers are unambiguously bad, cops unambiguously good, and a severe beating followed by a two story fall doesn't kill you
I have a real issue with how absolutely bloodthirsty this iteration of Spiderman is. A lot of the attacks look pretty lethal, and kicking people off buildings is really easy and common. He sentences people to a vicious life threatening beating for buying and selling drugs, and makes funny quips about how much joy he's taking in it. I mean all the dialogue is really cringey too, so I guess I'm just playing it for the web swinging now.
I’ve always found the constant praise of cops by Spider Man in this game somewhat uncomfortable tbh. One, cops suck and two, it hurts his character imo. It kinda took away from his underdog angle. I know he’s experienced now and such, but him working with the cops takes away his image, at least in my eyes. I think it would’ve been more “Spider Man-ey” to have him keep fighting for the city while almost everyone in it is against him. Honestly, the writing in the game was ehh overall. It had some good moments but they were lightly sprinkled in between action set pieces which were fun, but not very emotionally engaging. I wish we got more character moments like when Peter teaches Miles to punch, or where he gets evicted. The human sections were wasted potential too. The sections with Miles and/or Peter at the homeless shelter would’ve benefited from having more gameplay, (talking to people, helping the homeless) and being more frequent or longer. I know it’s a AAA game but it would just be nice to have more interaction with the characters and city. That’s one advantage games have over other media, and that potential was underutilized here. I would’ve cared way more if I had more of a presence in the world and to the characters is all I’m saying. Sorry for the rant. It was hella off topic but wanted to share my opinion somewhere. Please don’t kill me
It isn’t related. Neoliberalism is an economic theory (one which I disagree with). A better word the author could have used would have been centrist or something.
While neoliberalism is an economic theory, there are social theories that comes along with neoliberalism I think. To have a neoliberal worldview, you must also necessarily accept a state which protects property rights for example, so cops have to be the good guys in some sense. Didn't think too hard on that example, but you get what I mean right?
Okay, "social democracies" also believe in and protect private property, ontop of enjoying high trust in the police as helpful and "good". Calling places like Sweden or Finland neo-liberal just based on those aspects doesnt sound right either.
Whatever one thinks of cops can hardly be tied to economic theory seeing how corrupt police can be no matter the economic or social setting of a country. Not saying American cops are good, just pointing out the economic argument just doesnt work in my opinion.
I didn't think too hard on the example, I wanted to just describe that some economic theories have some social implication which comes with it. I agree with some hours of sleep that the article is sort of using neoliberal to mean "stuff I hate" but in general, most mainstream capitalist ideology does require the police to enforce private property rights. I don't think it's incorrect to say neoliberalism, as a form of capitalism, requires cops to be accepted by society despite how rotten of an institution they are.
They could just say liberal in that case. Private property isn’t specifically a neoliberal thing.
My (somewhat pedantic) issue is that people use “neoliberal” to just mean “bad liberal.” I think the more specific definition of neoliberalism as the type of laissez-faire economics adopted post-Reagan is useful to distinguish.
I’m no back the blue motherfucker, but isn’t calling Spider-Man PS4 copganda a little harsh? Spider-Man isn’t out here committing hate crimes or trying to bust people for selling weed, and even when his detective pal Yuri goes full dark side and Spider-Man vows to stop her in the dlc. The whole Spider-Cop thing is a dumb joke which is kinda Spider-Man’s whole thing ya know? I wouldn’t even say Spider-Man is on friendly terms with the NYPD other than Yuri and Jefferson more so neutral. For Copganda Spider-Man isn’t really doing its job effectively when in the first hour it shows corrupt swat members on Fisk’s payroll try to kill Spider-Man.
You can bust people for selling drugs, and he kinda just beats the daylights out of them instead of waiting for evidence. I think they saw it was weird because I don't think it happens as Miles.
But you didn't say it barely happened a couple times, you were insinuating that it should never happen in a video game, or that it'd be ridiculous for Batman to do so.
Edit: OK, I see most of your posts are fanposts of this game. Its fine if you love it, its pretty fun for me too. Was just having a deeper discussion and didn't mean to insult your thing you like, were not going to see eye to eye so im gonna stop here.
I never insinuated it should never happen, just that it’s a bit silly to get bothered when a game about fighting people ignores logic for you to fight people.
But you’re right on that second part, I’ve been getting too caught up in Reddit arguing over a game that I don’t care for enough to justify, I need a break from this app.
The drug they are selling in the Spider-Man game isn't just weed dude, its like experimental government black tar heroin, it's not like Spidey is beating the shit out of a single dad who is trying to provide for his family by dealing drugs, you realize that right? Also Spidey doesn't cripple these dudes in lore, He holds back like 99% of his strength and just fights to incapacitate and web up, you guys are acting like Spidey is breaking every bone in their body and permanently paralyzing them when he isn't.
Source: Been reading Spidey comics and watching/playing Spidey themed entertainment since I could read
.
Lmao Spider-man is not subject to the legal system. He doesn't have to uphold literal US law. His entire existence is illegal. The things he decides to do are fully based in his own morality, not the law.
The worst part of the game is the section where a bunch of criminals escape and ... don't go anywhere. You'd think they would get as far away as possible, but they just sorta hang out in the city.
The very concept of superheroes is inherently fascist, if you want to look at it in this light.
If you can suspend disbelief for a class of ubermensch who dictate morality via violence, you can make room for some cops that don't entirely suck.
y'all gotta fuckingg chill so hard with this shit. It's fiction. It's a dude with spider powers. Shut the fuck up about "this is copaganda", the concept of cops is just a concept that works well for stories. If you hate cops in real life, aigh, sure, but this is not real life. Chill.
Edit: if your first thought at any positive cop portrayal is "this is propaganda" and not "this is a storytelling device" you gotta get off twitter a bit, real talk. Obviously there's pieces of media with copaganda but this is decidedly not one of them.
it's insane that you make this argument tbh. propaganda works. the us government allows marvel to use their resources and in return they require the movie to portray cops and military personnel in a positive light.
The Pentagon needing to approve Marvel scripts does have absolutely nothing to do with the game being discussed, yes. At least I think so. I guess it could be true but I'd need to see proof for my mind to change on that. The issue with the movies is that they use a lot of military vehicles and military stuff in general, so they end up needing approval (and it seems not even all movies need that approval, James Gunn has said he never had to go through that and he's done like 3 big superhero movies at this point) which is an issue you should not have with the Spiderman game being discussed.
Even then - Cops being portrayed positively has been a thing in comics since forever (also negatively tho). Has the military always been behind that? Did billionaires fund the Batman brand as a way to humanize rich people?
And even in the case of the Spiderman PS4 game, >!there are really only 2 major cop characters - both portrayed positively. However, one dies and the other one becomes a murderous vigilante. If this is what the military is paying for, I'd say they ain't getting their money's worth.!<
edit: watch people reply to my first comment but completely ignore this one. Which is a shame, because I actually do want to engage in this discussion.
Neo-Liberal
Definition: Anyone who has any views I don’t agree with but is clearly not a republican.
Alternative- the word I scream at my friends when they won’t eat at chipotle and that makes me feel bad about my own lack of restraint
>unprecedented wealth generation
[Look at all that wealth being generated](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/US_Wealth_Inequality_-_v2.png)
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Is this from some kind of mirror universe? Never would I have expected an article, where the author wishes spider-man was marxist, to be published on a site like this. EDIT: Well, at least the Sam Riami spider-man hated landlords
/ujI think I remember TheGamer being pretty left leaning when it came to opinion pieces, but maybe I’m thinking of something else. /rj What kind of world do we live in where the one and only Gamer is pandering to the woke mob??
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We’ll see who gets pictures of Spider-Man.
Sam raimi Spiderman has a mug with jung Mao on it. Could be fake tho.
Oh? Havent you heard: Marxism is the new mainstream culture and anyone who questions it, even hypothetically, must immediately be jailed by force!
Bro the cops in every superhero universe fucking suck at their job If the cops in marvel were good cops there’s be literally no reason for the superheroes to exist. Picture the scene; spider man swings around the corner and slams into the ground at the scene of the crime. Thankfully, the police already caught the guy, so spider man can just fuck right off. *THE END.*
I would love this. Turn up at the scene and the Lizard has 36 bullet wounds to the back, he ain't breaking out of the Raft no more.
I’d kinda feel bad as Connors tends to not want to be the Lizard, now Carnage on the other hand…
/rj Just look at this picture. It's so absolutely purely apolitical. No politics in sight anywhere. Just like the Punisher. Nothing political to see there. Like... AT ALL.
I think the bigger issue is that in the game Spider-Man is completely ok with helping to set up a monitoring system that tracks crimes all across New York. It’s for cops and funded by Oscorp, so you just know it’s being used to spy on innocent civilians.
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with discussing things like this, it’s not like I’m saying people shouldn’t play the game or it’s bad because of that. Purely from an in universe perspective Oscorp is a corrupt company, it’s not “nitpicking” to theorize the real reason a corp like that would want to fund a city wide tracking system. Shame on me for wanting to think deeper about the games I play and not just shutting my brain off I guess.
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Spider-Man actively says he can access almost any signal in the city from the towers when you get fix the tower that shows you the first backpack
To a degree, yes you're right, but things that aren't intentionally put in the spotlight can still be subject to analysis of "huh you know that's kind of messed up/thought provoking/etc" Elder Scrolls is full of that, and it's valuable and fun discussion. But in this case my point is pointless anyways because the towers are actually in the spotlight. Jameson and I think some other characters + the social media app IN THE GAME ITSELF have spoken commentary on "hey isn't this kind of fucked up? And a little bit more messed up that spiderman, a person without government oversight, is using them?" There is more to it than "woah cool minimap"
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If I can suspend my disbelief for superheroes, I can suspend it for cops being good people. It isn't hard.
The issue with fictional stories about “good cops” is that it maintains and perpetuates a narrative that has real world consequences. These kinds of fictional stories do shape how we view real life scenarios and situations, and the massive deluge of cop shows and whatnot all create positive associations with cops and the criminal justice system that is not only unwarranted, but actually props up a harmful system.
Fair points all around, truly. That being said, I feel like the cops in this game mainly just stand around in the street impotently firing their guns at nothing, waiting for Spider-Man to bust skulls. Idk how many positive associations are coming from that.
Name one superhero who commonly works with cops where there aren’t multiple major storylines where the cops are corrupt. For Spider-Manin this very game his cop partner becomes a vigilante who kills criminals, and in the comics his old cop partner was working for the kingpin. Batman has Batman year one where it is made explicitly clear that cops suck.
Batman exists in a hell city where it's basically a war zone and pretty much everyone but Gordon and his squad are depicted as absolutely terrible and corrupt mobsters.
And stories about "Good vigilantes" don't? Well, of course they don't, because you're like, making it up, lol.
If you go read pulp fiction and other old crime genres, you will find that quite often the hardboiled detective or whoever actually works against the police, where the police are at best portrayed as incompetant and at worst corrupt/actively aiding the criminals. The massive mainstream cop worship narrative is a very new, and politically charged, narrative decision. If it were a russian tv show glorifying the military or cops or whatever I feel like you’d call it out as propaganda, but I guess since its the usa its okay to worship the military and police?
Well, yeah...if the police are competent good guys in a detective story, the detective wouldn't have anything to do... I'm not pro-copaganda, and going around demanding all cops are portrayed as heroes. I'm just saying that portraying a non-problematic police force to work alongside Spider-Man hurts nobody.
Nowadays the detective IS the police, who become the competant good guys
I think the issue there is: Cops are actual people actively making society worse. Spider-man is a fictional superhero that no one could ever be no matter how much they want to. And you'll never actually meat him. But you CAN meet cops, and it's a little frustrating that almost all media involving police portrays them in a light that is at worst neutral and regularly some kind of paragons of justice and morals. But they aren't. And maybe we'd like to see people stop pretending they are? Maybe it'd be nice if this game that is marketed with one of the most popular heroes ever doesn't spend it's time praising police after... I mean, do you want me to start picking incidents, or can we just agree it's a lot?
> Spider-man is a fictional superhero that no one could ever be no matter how much they want to. Watch me, I will get bitten by spiders to prove you wrong !!! Update : I'm in the hospital
Superhero stories can deal with real life stuff, but a lot of it is escapism. It provides role models. Portraying police as good, friendly, non-violent hometown heroes isn't bad, IMO. It's neutral. It doesn't tackle the issues but it doesn't make them worse. The real copaganda is giving murderous, edgy assholes like Frank Castle, the Punisher, so much time in the spotlight as the protagonist, or sympathetic anti-hero/villain instead of a straight up villain who gets defeated in the end. That's actually harmful bullshit right there. Some over-competent white guy going around killing criminals and getting away with it...doesn't matter how many comic book panels where you have him say "I like Captain America <3 and i'm a big meanie" if he still does this shit and has his own Netlfix shows. Asshole cops IRL don't go around with little images of Miles Morales' wholesome cop dad on their assault rifles.
This isn't something you can " go neutral " on. Spending a game beating up dudes who have drugs and praising cops and calling yourself " Spider-cop " are all things that actively glorify police and the current War on Drugs. They didn't HAVE to add any of that into the game. It'd still be an amazing game without any of that. But they added it, and because it's there it's something that can be critiqued. And I don't think it's exactly fair to compare this situation to Frank Castle. Beyond the fact that he's an anti-hero, having him literally tell cops to quit worshiping him is about as good as you can get. It isn't even subtle. If you're going to critique him for having a panel that literally makes the position clear, you can't ignore the way Spider-man is praising cops. There isn't anything wrong, in my opinion with the Punisher. He is NOT a hero, he is the lesser of many evils. And that doesn't make him good, and he doesn't pretend to BE good. Anti-heroes are not the issue here. The cultural issue is that police offices would rather identify with a homicidal maniac than a hero who actually lives to defend the laws they swear to uphold. If it wasn't him, it'd be Judged Dredd. If it wasn't Dredd, it'd be Deadpool, or Deathstroke, or any number of other anti-heroes. It'd be Boba Fett. They would find SOME character that represents their desire to cause harm to " bad guys " and graph onto them. So what makes Spider-man an issue here? He isn't influencing cops, he's influencing CIVILIANS. He is actively telling civilians: " It's ok guys! Cops are your friends! They're the good guys! They're all right. I am kinda like a cop you know. And you trust me! So you should trust them too. \*insert heart emoji\* ". And some kids will grow up with that, or teens, or even young adults and put themselves in dangerous situations because " the police are safe. They'll help me ". But they don't. They'll find out it was propaganda and a lie when they get hurt. Or their friends get hurt. Or their dog gets shot. Or their neighbor gets raided and killed for waking up in terror to a " no knock warrant ". Or any number of things. That's why we're worried about Spider-man making cops seem ok. It puts innocent people in danger, because it teaches them subconsciously that cops are safe.
Okay, nevermind. I thought you would at least agree with the obvious fact that the Punisher is extremely problematic. Considering that you have no evidence of your claims about Spider-Man, and the Punisher Skull is currently being co-opted by the far right.
So you read basically none of that. That's cool, sorry I put in so much effort.
I read the whole thing. There's just no point. You're wildly anti-cop, to the point where you think portraying them as neutral is getting people killed. As if there aren't a million or more interactions with cops every day that you don't hear about where things go perfectly fine. There have been tragedies that need to be resolved but you're over here....I don't even know what your end goal is. You want everyone to distrust and ignore the police because they're all murderous criminals. If I'm going to talk to you about this anymore, I'm going to have to talk to you about that, and I have no interest in doing so because there's no way of changing your mind about that. Edit: And when I tried to level with you, you totally dismissed my criticism of the Punisher. Which is frankly ridiculous.
Please enlighten me as to how portraying cops as good and friendly is “neutral.” Like the other guy said, depictions like that - fictional or otherwise - only reinforce the false narratives surrounding police officers and our criminal justice systems at large that have hindered political progress in the U.S.A for decades.
All these downvoted comments… lmao Btw how is Spider-Man Copaganda? Isn’t he somewhat of a vigilante?
People are saying this because he works with the police chief and does a grizzled detective impression while calling himself spidercop like 3 times in the game despite the fact that most of the time the cops are actively against him helping saying things like “we have it under control” and “we didn’t need your help”
It's the sable guys that say stuff like "we didn't need your help". The police officers thank him instead. Playing the game now, so it's fresh in my memory. I have no dog in this whole fight, I think it's silly to care about super hero fiction like it actually changes real life.
I agree, but sometimes when you stop street crimes the police will say something along the lines of “we didn’t need your help” happens a lot more near the start of the game
Hmm guess they stop being mean later on
Wait does the game really support cops? That seems really shortsighted on the devs part.
Spiderman is just a flamboyant cop. Of course it's pro cop
Spider-Man is best when cops don’t like him
Spider man is best when he's fighting giant robots and not acting as New Yorks super narc
Most, if not all mainstream superhero properties are copaganda, they are obsessed with law and order and have no issue with excessive force.
one thing that was pointed out to me that i havent been able to ignore since is that superheroes arent changing things for the better, their entire purpose is to uphold the status quo. usually the villain is somebody who has been wronged by society and is trying to change it, challenging the status quo. the superheroes job is to basically put an end to that threat to society. its like if a cop breaks up a protest, they just want to stop people from trying to change things. obviously thats over simplified and these movies have more to em, but thats generally the formula they all follow. they always make it so the villain does irredeemable things and is actually a shitty person, so whatever cause theyre fighting for becomes synonymous with evil. its honestly why black panther works as well as it does. the villain is sympathetic and by the end our hero realizes that upholding the status quo isnt enough and he also needs to take action, he just makes sure that he doesnt do it the same way the villain did.
I think there’s been a change over time in terms of who superheroes fought against, though. While it’s not like there are many villainous cops in superhero media, original Superman comics tended to pit him against corrupt landlords and such, before it changed (I reckon in the 50’s and 60’s) to him fighting back robbers and the like. Originally, he was fighting against corrupt systems that oppressed the vulnerable and maintained the status quo - and I think, to an extent, that’s what Superman often does in modern comics when he’s written well. His most iconic villain, for instance, is Lex Luthor, a corrupt business tycoon/politician who often oppresses others through means that are immoral, but not illegal. I know that’s all Superman stuff and not Spider-Man, because that’s mostly what I know, but I think it’s important to note that superheroes fighting for and against the status quo varies depending on individual writers, as well as the time period in which it’s written.
That's why I liked season 1 of Arrow: Oliver Queen literally just goes around murdering rich people in cold blood. Shame they dropped it and it just became the usual.
"You seriously think I'm a cop? A cop in a skintight red-and-blue suit?" – *TASM1*
The game’s version of the Ubisoft tower mechanic is helping the NYPD set up a draconian mass surveillance system lol
Wtf?????? Lol now I know to never play this shit
At worst the cops don't necessarily trust Spider-man, save Yuri Lowenthal and Miles's dad. But in general the boys in blue are presented as the good guys. Which is funny because the game has a faction in the latter half that do all the bad shit cops and are meant to be a commentary on police and military abuse against civilians.
Yuri Lowenthal is the actor for Spider-Man in the games. You're thinking of Yuri Watanabe.
Voiced by Tara Platt, Yuri Lowenthal's wife.
Not really. In the latter half of the game you fight armored military fascists who abuse their authority and detain protesting civilians. Not a very subtle message. >!And in the DLC, the captain who we thought was a "good" cop basically goes off the deep end and starts murdering criminals so make of that what you will.!< EDIT: forgot to add that Spidey literally beats up dirty cops in the very first mission.
Isn’t Sable’s group a private military group though? They aren’t the police
I never said they were police lol. Just said that the Sable agents are basically an allegory for police brutality
Ok, but the NYPD is in the game, and are depicted as a good organization which is not accurate to reality. I’m glad Spidey beats up the aggressive military fascist organization. That’s the bare minimum. Spider-Man never claims the system we have is bad, only that individual cops are the problem. But that’s how superhero media is.
I don't really see the game as being explicitly pro cop or anti cop. The cops in the game (other than Yuri or Jefferson Davis) are mostly just props who are there in the background. And while I agree that most superhero media (maybe besides Daredevil) don't really adress political stuff, the in-game explanation for Spider-Man not claiming the system is broken is because he needs a way for the villains he takes down to be locked up and the only way he can think of is the police.
Yeah, stories still gotta happen so there has to be a functioning "bad guys go here and cant get out" system in-universe, or else Spidey would have to kill them all to end the movie. Not a great look when he has a villain whose whole thing is buying medicine for his sick daughter. If we had actual accurate NYPD in game, Kingpin would be literally invincible and unarrestable and Venom would get let out due to mishandling of evidence, not a fun way to sell toys.
Mishandling of evidence is what got us carnage, so.... maybe it is a fun way to sell toyS
The CW Flash started out by locking up his villains in a secret supercollider prison with no due process. But he also worked closely with cops.
Superman uses the Phantom Zone for that same story reason, but that's more because like, you can't just put General Zod or Darkseid in Genpop at Riker's.
Regarding your point about the Kingpin, I think that literally happens in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics, not too sure though
One of the earlier arcs is about Kingpin getting caught on video murdering someone in cold blood and he just travels abroad for a few months while his expensive lawyer team handles it and then he's back like nothing happened. Yeah, I'd say that's accurate lol
Well I mean I don't think it'd be hard to write a Spiderman story where he has to real with a realistic police force, I think it fits very well in with the general idea behind Spiderman.
They've definitely done it, the ultimate universe has a lot of it, like Miles realizing cops are nice to him when the mask is on, its just not as good at selling toys. It can be fun for Spiderman stories but they usually give bad cop stories to the Punisher or Daredevil because they're not the ones on every kids backpack.
Yeah, that’s fair. I understand the need for a reliable way to lock up the actual supervillains. I’m just frustrated that a lot of people who play these games miss/don’t care about/ don’t want critical analysis of games at all, especially when it tackles issues that many people deal with in reality I appreciate your perspective
>in reality here's the mistake you made: spiderman for the ps4 not reality
>!In the DLC Spidey also teams up and kinda fawns over the fascist PMC leader in taking down her team who went "rogue" which very much plays into the idea its not the system (here being fascist militia police state) thats in the wrong, its rogue evildoers coincidentally in said system!<
They gave the cops exaggerated swagger.
I found Spider-Man 's portrayal of cops to be so passive and boring that I don't see it to be that harmful. Like others have said, the latter half turns Manhattan into a private military state, and the word fascist is used fairly liberally to describe them (in combat quips). There are a few cops that are your friends, but the story barely felt like it was about cops or pro cop to me. SM also says stuff like 'Cops aren't a fan of mine but that doesn't mean I want them to die'. The surveillance state thing, I just chalk up to "We have to assume Spider Man is basically benevolent because this is a modern Marvel product".
It's a superhero game. Superheroes are a inherently antidemocratic concept, Marvel escpecially is the definition of neoliberal propaganda
Uj/ Calling Marvel 'neoliberal propaganda' is a stretch.
not really, it’s literally funded by the us military
I would definitely like to see a source on that. But the MCU as a whole seems rather anti establishment. Captain America starts as a symbol of America and refuses to see the farce any longer. Tony realized what he’s doing is killing people oversees and stops making weapons for the military. I haven’t seen the Hulk in a long time because I don’t like it, but I remember the bad guys being the military. IM2 shows how the military is willing to get any technology it wants to kill people, although it’s admittedly not as anti military as the rest. The government council is willing to nuke a city in Avengers Thor is the only Phase 1 movie that isn’t anti military iirc, and that’s just phase 1.
Idk if it was funded by the military, but captain marvel straight up had an air force ad that played before it in theaters.
Yeah Captain Marvel was pretty much the only pro military MCU project I can remember. Maybe Guardians? The first Captain America movie definitely, but definitely not Captain America as a whole character.
Did the air force even really factor into Captain Marvel outside of the beginning? The deal the military offers only requires that you don't make them look bad, which is iffy, but most movies aren't aiming to criticize the military to begin with.
Nah, most of the Marvel movies are anti military, or at least don’t shine a positive light on the military. Captain Marvel was the only movie with an earth military that wasn’t villainized or antagonized in general
The issue is that it still upholds the logic of a millitary. There are big evil forces around us that we need to violently defend against in the name of good. It's answer too it is way worse than any millitary organisation. Instead of combinig the forces of different citicens in a collective struggle Marvel portrays powerfull individualls, standing above democracy and mankind as a whole as the only way to solve issues
How would you do an action story with a central protagonist that isn't about a powerful individual solving problems? Spartacus is about a guy bypassing democracy, and obviously no one here is going to say his cause wasn't just. The same applies to Spider-man taking it upon himself to stop a mad scientist from creating a miniature sun in hell's kitchen. Most superhero actions are justifiable in the context of their world.
Thats called storytelling in general. Would the Witcher series be military propaganda? There are big evil sources around you that you need to defend violently for the greater good. It’s a powerful individual standing above democracy and man, elf, whatever kind to solve issues Is the Percy Jackson series military propaganda? Again, violent forces of good against problematic ally threatening evil. Is chess military propaganda? Of course it is, go look at r/anarchychess Is religion propaganda? David killed Goliath using violence to vanquish evil and allow good to prosper. None of these are military logic, yet they match your definition to near perfection, because it’s not military propaganda, it’s human storytelling. Special good guy beats the bad guy, often using skillful methods that involve violence
You are comparing appels and pears and therebye completly depoliticicing Marvel. Aside from Percy Jackson maybe (I read one book years ago and therefore can't really make a statement on it) with human storytelling we are talking about outstanding human beings. Achilles may be a greater hero then any of his man but he is still part of a human conflict and part of a active political strugle. Marvel heros on the other side are not outstanding from a crowd, they are above the ground. They stand above every Politik strugle, human beings are just faceless background objects and things to safe. Marvels core ideologie is that powerfull individualls are objective forces for good that are the only way to safe humanity from inpending doom.
Please give some concrete examples of wtf you’re talking about. Are you really gonna pretend Marvel superheroes are not also part of their fictional society? Did you miss the numerous arcs over the decades that question the ethics of using and abusing power as superheroes can? In what universe have any of these characters been presented as “objective forces for good” as opposed to complex people who have power unexpectedly thrust into their hands? The only “core ideology” of Marvel stories is that those who are granted power - by circumstance or otherwise - are responsible for the consequences of their actions and inaction. That’s it, Uncle Ben 101. Anything else is an extrapolation. “Might makes right” has not been a feature of Marvel stories for a long time, if ever. Tbh you don’t sound like someone who’s actually familiar with these stories, and is instead badly paraphrasing a much more intelligent analysis on early superheroes being similar to fascist strongmen archetypes or something.
I don't blame comics for being centrists, but it's really what they are. They criticize the status quo but doesn't actually challenge it. There are the good military boys and the bad military boys, we are just supposed to remove the bad parts but keep the structure as is. They won't recognize sometimes the system must be remade from scratch. One funny instance that almost slipped the cracks is Cp. America and the winter soldier. They presented all the reasons to make Cp. America leave the government for good. The USA government experimented on the first black super soldier, he pushed Walker over the edge, they screwed sams over an white super soldier. They treated refugees so badly they turned terrorists. And the solution to all this was sams giving a pep talk to the senators. It was comically bad
It’s not “funded by the us military”, Marvel’s funded consumers. They’ve been given resources from the military for certain films when they’re pro military enough and they’ve historically sold and exported comics to US troops but they don’t subsist off military payment
Yeah folks are legit circlejerking hard rn
My favourite part in playing Miles morales was after stopping a crime and the police were everywhere, the victim was like “I guess I’ll call a cab to take me home.” I knew then that this was a very realistic depiction of new york police
/uj Y’all debating the ethics of beating up criminals and Spider-Man cooperating with the authorities like this isn’t a T-rated game about a boy who got bitten by a spider and fights a guy named Mr. Negative while making bad puns
Tbh this actually made it much harder for me to enjoy Spiderman
I have yet to play it... How bad is it?
It's a great game especially if you already like Spider-Man. Yeah theres a bit of copaganda but I don't think it ruins the story or anything
What is cop Ganda? Like pro cop or anti cop
Propaganda in favor of cops
How was it propaganda? They kinda just existed, and they didn’t even like Spider-Man at one point right? I don’t know
He assisted them in making a mass-surveillance state
It’s that silver sable? And isn’t it to detect crime? It’s Spider-Man lol. Spider-Man doesn’t need to be that deep anyway
Hey man, don't bring logic into this, we have our own propaganda to push, ok?
I love how they hate cops so much that even me asking a question about it gets downvoted 💀💀😛 Like bruhhhh. Cops exist, and they are always going too. Spider-Man live in New York, and there are lots of cops in New York, and where does Spider-Man hang out at? Crime scenes like supervillain fights and where to cops go? Where the crime is lolll. Do people just not want cops in the game? I mean mister negative kills a bunch of cops, so they don’t act like they are immune or anything.
Worse than you might think. Cruising NYC and just like, being spiderman feels weird. At some point I beat the fuck out of some drug dealers and spiderman just goes "man I fucking LOVE badly hurting drug dealers". He repeatedly calls himself spidercop while being made aware of (and violently stopping) every crime in a ten mile radius, regardless of severity. In the latter half of the game ya start to feel like a superhero, but for a bit I just felt like I was brutalizing desperate and poor people
This is such an insane over exaggeration and for what.
How do you ever enjoy anything if you have to exaggerate this hard to justify hating things.
This is so blatantly exaggerated. You make it sound like Spider-Man is some sort of unironic take on Peacemaker. This game is not a psychotic fascistic power fantasy. First off, you mention Spider-Man is always violently stopping crimes of any kind. The side-activity crimes you're almost always stopping are over-the-top comic book fare. He's not stopping people from shoplifting or people behind on their rent. He's stopping people from dangerously speeding through busy city streets, armed hostage situations, crimes like that. It's not like a criminal is going through Dog Day Afternoon and then ends with Spider-Man stopping them. These are people doing shit to serve their super-villain bosses. And even then, Spider-Man never kills these people. That immediately makes him better than any cop. And when does Spider-Man ever say he likes beating up drug dealers? When are drug dealers even mentioned? As far as that Spider-Cop stuff goes. That's primarily a joke to annoy his cop friend where there's already a working established relationship as there is with a lot of Spider-Man stories. Even Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse ends with Miles Morales working well with the cops. Playing this game doesn't mean "Oh yeah I love cops" in the same way consuming Batman or Iron Man media doesn't exactly mean you like billionaires. You can suspend your disbelief as the game isn't about "oh man aren't cops great."
You are not immune to propaganda and it shows in your comment.
Yeah ok, sign me up for the Blues Lives Matter brigade because I played Spider-Man and am not totally trashing the cops in that game. Get a grip.
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He does the spider cop routine 3-4 times throughout the entire game and only does it when he fixes the broke. Police towers, the fuck are you talking about
We played the same game bud
There’s a very fun way to play the game and it’s when you get the phone call for a narcotics report, you just completely ignore it. Swing by and do nothing. I love being a spider man that just completely ignores certain crimes. But they clearly did learn with miles morales because suddenly stopping drug crimes isn’t one of the random street crimes.
Ya miss so much content that way, but yeah for sure. I ended up doin that on my 2nd playthrough
You miss exactly one type of crime per district. Which isn't really even enough to have to start worrying about the crime tokens, you can get everything you want upgraded anyway. That's not "so much content", you lose more by ignoring the science minigames.
You might have a point there, wouldn't know because fuck the science minigames
Geez... Yeah thats pretty bad. Especially considering how marvels inspo for spiderman was the lack of police presence and so he invented a character to reprsent that workint class need for safety. Idk sounds wack
It not anywhere near this bad. Didn’t effect the game at all. Didn’t even notice it. Almost all the time you are fighting super villians, mafia members and escaped alien prisoners from rykers
It is exactly this bad
What's wrong with beating up drug dealers?
Game dropped at a time of rampant and often discussed police brutality and murder, especially in areas like New York. Brutalizing petty criminals before they'd even hurt anyone (as spiderman expresses sadistic glee in doing so and also calls himself spidercop) took me out of the fun a few times
It dropped in 2018 it’s a remaster not a remake their not going to make many changes, so far the only change I’ve noticed aside from enhanced graphics is the pride flags
What changed about the pride flags?
But I just don't see how stopping drug dealers is wrong? Spider-Man doesn't cripple them for life, and drug dealers are bad people. They ruin people's lives with addiction. If Spidey beats up the drug users that's a whole other thing but I don't think he's ever done that lmao.
I guess it's a suspension of disbelief thing. Like it takes place in a universe where drug dealers are unambiguously bad, cops unambiguously good, and a severe beating followed by a two story fall doesn't kill you
Really? They aren’t that vital to the story or the gameplay. Most of the time they’re just stood there shooting at nothing.
I have a real issue with how absolutely bloodthirsty this iteration of Spiderman is. A lot of the attacks look pretty lethal, and kicking people off buildings is really easy and common. He sentences people to a vicious life threatening beating for buying and selling drugs, and makes funny quips about how much joy he's taking in it. I mean all the dialogue is really cringey too, so I guess I'm just playing it for the web swinging now.
Spider-Man PS4 is my pick for the game of the generation, *and* I also loathe how much it loves the NYPD. Both things can exist!
Uj/ but really, this again???
I’ve always found the constant praise of cops by Spider Man in this game somewhat uncomfortable tbh. One, cops suck and two, it hurts his character imo. It kinda took away from his underdog angle. I know he’s experienced now and such, but him working with the cops takes away his image, at least in my eyes. I think it would’ve been more “Spider Man-ey” to have him keep fighting for the city while almost everyone in it is against him. Honestly, the writing in the game was ehh overall. It had some good moments but they were lightly sprinkled in between action set pieces which were fun, but not very emotionally engaging. I wish we got more character moments like when Peter teaches Miles to punch, or where he gets evicted. The human sections were wasted potential too. The sections with Miles and/or Peter at the homeless shelter would’ve benefited from having more gameplay, (talking to people, helping the homeless) and being more frequent or longer. I know it’s a AAA game but it would just be nice to have more interaction with the characters and city. That’s one advantage games have over other media, and that potential was underutilized here. I would’ve cared way more if I had more of a presence in the world and to the characters is all I’m saying. Sorry for the rant. It was hella off topic but wanted to share my opinion somewhere. Please don’t kill me
lol neoliberal means "anything i don't like." /s
I like how your post history was exactly as expected based on this comment
He's not wrong though. "Neoliberal" is as much of a misused buzzword in leftist circles as "woke" or "SJW" are in rightist circles.
Ok mate, I'll bite. What about propaganda aimed at portraying police as admirable and good citizens is antithetical to neoliberalism?
It isn’t related. Neoliberalism is an economic theory (one which I disagree with). A better word the author could have used would have been centrist or something.
While neoliberalism is an economic theory, there are social theories that comes along with neoliberalism I think. To have a neoliberal worldview, you must also necessarily accept a state which protects property rights for example, so cops have to be the good guys in some sense. Didn't think too hard on that example, but you get what I mean right?
Okay, "social democracies" also believe in and protect private property, ontop of enjoying high trust in the police as helpful and "good". Calling places like Sweden or Finland neo-liberal just based on those aspects doesnt sound right either. Whatever one thinks of cops can hardly be tied to economic theory seeing how corrupt police can be no matter the economic or social setting of a country. Not saying American cops are good, just pointing out the economic argument just doesnt work in my opinion.
I didn't think too hard on the example, I wanted to just describe that some economic theories have some social implication which comes with it. I agree with some hours of sleep that the article is sort of using neoliberal to mean "stuff I hate" but in general, most mainstream capitalist ideology does require the police to enforce private property rights. I don't think it's incorrect to say neoliberalism, as a form of capitalism, requires cops to be accepted by society despite how rotten of an institution they are.
They could just say liberal in that case. Private property isn’t specifically a neoliberal thing. My (somewhat pedantic) issue is that people use “neoliberal” to just mean “bad liberal.” I think the more specific definition of neoliberalism as the type of laissez-faire economics adopted post-Reagan is useful to distinguish.
It works because we live in a neoliberal moment currently, but I agree.
You have clearly never lived in a place which has been liberated by NATO.
One day you will see the light of anarcho-natoism, my brother. <3
I’m no back the blue motherfucker, but isn’t calling Spider-Man PS4 copganda a little harsh? Spider-Man isn’t out here committing hate crimes or trying to bust people for selling weed, and even when his detective pal Yuri goes full dark side and Spider-Man vows to stop her in the dlc. The whole Spider-Cop thing is a dumb joke which is kinda Spider-Man’s whole thing ya know? I wouldn’t even say Spider-Man is on friendly terms with the NYPD other than Yuri and Jefferson more so neutral. For Copganda Spider-Man isn’t really doing its job effectively when in the first hour it shows corrupt swat members on Fisk’s payroll try to kill Spider-Man.
You can bust people for selling drugs, and he kinda just beats the daylights out of them instead of waiting for evidence. I think they saw it was weird because I don't think it happens as Miles.
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But.. He does that, hes a detective. You gather evidence in the Arkham games. You have to enter detective mode and gather clues and put them in files.
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But you didn't say it barely happened a couple times, you were insinuating that it should never happen in a video game, or that it'd be ridiculous for Batman to do so. Edit: OK, I see most of your posts are fanposts of this game. Its fine if you love it, its pretty fun for me too. Was just having a deeper discussion and didn't mean to insult your thing you like, were not going to see eye to eye so im gonna stop here.
I never insinuated it should never happen, just that it’s a bit silly to get bothered when a game about fighting people ignores logic for you to fight people. But you’re right on that second part, I’ve been getting too caught up in Reddit arguing over a game that I don’t care for enough to justify, I need a break from this app.
You are defending literal fascist propaganda. Stop.
The drug they are selling in the Spider-Man game isn't just weed dude, its like experimental government black tar heroin, it's not like Spidey is beating the shit out of a single dad who is trying to provide for his family by dealing drugs, you realize that right? Also Spidey doesn't cripple these dudes in lore, He holds back like 99% of his strength and just fights to incapacitate and web up, you guys are acting like Spidey is breaking every bone in their body and permanently paralyzing them when he isn't. Source: Been reading Spidey comics and watching/playing Spidey themed entertainment since I could read .
Selling drugs is a crime, Spider-Man is a crimefighter
I'm not saying its good to sell drugs, the guy I replied to said Spiderman doesn't bust people for drugs
Oh my bad
Lmao Spider-man is not subject to the legal system. He doesn't have to uphold literal US law. His entire existence is illegal. The things he decides to do are fully based in his own morality, not the law.
It is a lil uncomfortable how it's just Peter sucking cop dick a good percent of the time
“Neoliberalism is when I disagree with something”
Sounds like Spider-cop needs to watch his back
The worst part of the game is the section where a bunch of criminals escape and ... don't go anywhere. You'd think they would get as far away as possible, but they just sorta hang out in the city.
A few could've left and the one's that didn't are the one's you fight.
Bro getting mad over spider cop 💀
i hated this game because it's unrealistic depiction of police departments
It's a fucking superhero video game. It's a fictitious world. Does it really matter that much to you?
sir, this is a wendy's
The very concept of superheroes is inherently fascist, if you want to look at it in this light. If you can suspend disbelief for a class of ubermensch who dictate morality via violence, you can make room for some cops that don't entirely suck.
Copaganda is when cops do good things?
y'all gotta fuckingg chill so hard with this shit. It's fiction. It's a dude with spider powers. Shut the fuck up about "this is copaganda", the concept of cops is just a concept that works well for stories. If you hate cops in real life, aigh, sure, but this is not real life. Chill. Edit: if your first thought at any positive cop portrayal is "this is propaganda" and not "this is a storytelling device" you gotta get off twitter a bit, real talk. Obviously there's pieces of media with copaganda but this is decidedly not one of them.
it's insane that you make this argument tbh. propaganda works. the us government allows marvel to use their resources and in return they require the movie to portray cops and military personnel in a positive light.
>the movie Marvel's Spiderman for the PS4 is my favorite movie fr
oh yeah wow ur right my bad i forgot propaganda was only for movies silly me
The Pentagon needing to approve Marvel scripts does have absolutely nothing to do with the game being discussed, yes. At least I think so. I guess it could be true but I'd need to see proof for my mind to change on that. The issue with the movies is that they use a lot of military vehicles and military stuff in general, so they end up needing approval (and it seems not even all movies need that approval, James Gunn has said he never had to go through that and he's done like 3 big superhero movies at this point) which is an issue you should not have with the Spiderman game being discussed. Even then - Cops being portrayed positively has been a thing in comics since forever (also negatively tho). Has the military always been behind that? Did billionaires fund the Batman brand as a way to humanize rich people? And even in the case of the Spiderman PS4 game, >!there are really only 2 major cop characters - both portrayed positively. However, one dies and the other one becomes a murderous vigilante. If this is what the military is paying for, I'd say they ain't getting their money's worth.!< edit: watch people reply to my first comment but completely ignore this one. Which is a shame, because I actually do want to engage in this discussion.
>propaganda doesn’t exist in fiction What the fuck?
That's a really cool quote of something that I never said ever.
rj/ what have cops done wrong? uj/ Marvel films have become increasingly neoliberal for awhile and that is what makes The Boys blunt satire so good.
You can play as literal anarchist Spider-Punk on the flip side, but you had to have to pre-ordered, so I don't even want to get into that
you can unlock the suit in-game lol
Oh that's rad, thank you. Sorry, new to it since I don't have a PS
Very based. ACAB Ruffled some feathers haha
Neo-Liberal Definition: Anyone who has any views I don’t agree with but is clearly not a republican. Alternative- the word I scream at my friends when they won’t eat at chipotle and that makes me feel bad about my own lack of restraint
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>unprecedented wealth generation [Look at all that wealth being generated](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/US_Wealth_Inequality_-_v2.png)
This is about as dumb as hitting mad a Garrus for being pro police.