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I swear the amount of dumbfucks here who are all like "There's going to be a draft, and you're going to get drafted even if you have one arm and don't know the ABC's" is astonishing.
For the US to resort to this, there would likely have to be an invasion of the US homeland. There are multiple reasons why this would be something nearly impossible for an enemy to pull off, let alone pull off successfully...
Missiles and long range bombs from like a handful of places is the only way the US can get hit really.
It costs an insane amount to field your troops that far away without a base to supply/operate out of.
The primary threat would be SLBMs practically speaking, long range bombs requires Tu95s to somehow not be one of the most easily detected aircraft in Russian service, and Tu22s wouldn't be able to realistically pierce NORAD either. The only way this works is if Russia were to poke holes in NORAD which would require the destruction of the American pacific fleet and a land invasion of Alaska and Canada.
True. They also don't use SEAD/DEAD as a doctorine, but more as a capability, so would be super vulnerable if they somehow even made it through.
What about China though? Legit asking cause I know nothing about Chinese strategic bombers (if they even have them?)
Russia does have SEAD, but their missiles are remarkably outdated and generally still utilize analog technology.
Also, china only has one strategic bomber and it's the H6, which is a literal tupapev 16. It's a joke.
You can correct me if I’m wrong (I’m one of those people OP is talking about) but my understanding of SEAD is that American is one of the only militaries to actually practice it in a significant way.
Oh yeah, I just meant they don't so much carry out dedicated SEAD missions as much as chuck some antirad missiles on a mixed loadout before they slap the plane on the ass and send it on it's way.
And just after a quick squiz at the wiki, it looks like the H6 is mostly setup for a naval ASuW role. Only real threat they can pose against a peer country are some cruise missiles. It's also got a slightly abysmal combat range... It do be a bit of a joke.
Finally someone who has a rough idea of what a Russian attack on North America would look like.
The only thing you are missing is that long range hypersonic and/or glide vehicles could make it much easier for Russia to launch stand off strikes from outside NATOs range.
Three issues though.
1. Russia’s “hypersonic” missiles are really just super fast air launched cruise missiles. They aren’t reeeally hypersonic which means
2. They are susceptible to modern air defenses.
3. In addition, Russian manufacturing of these missiles isn’t particularly great.
It costs an insane amount FOR US! We have the most powerful military, the most capable navy and the biggest war chest of any country. We can project power like it’s our business, because it kind of is. That’s what we absolutely do the best.
Now, imagine a country like russia or China trying the same thing. It’s not just the cost, it’s the fact that they don’t have the manpower, and the toys to invade America effectively
A ground invasion of this continent is impractical at best, suicidal at worst. Too much varying terrain, temperature extremes. It would also be nearly impossible to get ground support to said invading army. We’re pretty safe, and fools who think we’re going to get invaded need to quit watching Red Dawn
It is also important to point out those who keep watching red dawn though. A sizable portion of US Citizens would love nothing more than a chance to take on some invaders. Add more weapons than anywhere else on earth. And then add the fact that every military veteran received guerilla warfare practice/training with 20 years in the desert….. leans more towards suicidal. And no I’m not saying that the guerillas would be Rambo but fighting off a massive insurgency while fighting the worlds largest and well funded military in human history would be impossible, save nuclear Armageddon.
Where things are now, I expect TMIC will initiate the first nuclear strike. Then because if TMIC, we’ll get nuked second.
That was the point behind Hillary’s we’ll ’review our nuclear policy’ line.
Bet y’ur wondering what TMIC is.
The Madmen In Charge.
As a continuation, with the advancements in military technology, ground warfare on a massive scale to require a draft would be infinitely less effective.
We see this in the Russian/Ukraine war, where Russia, struggling to equip its larger force with modern equipment, has led to a somewhat one-sided war.
Somewhat one sided???
Ukraine is not doing nearly as good as we may think. We’re being fed a shit ton of propaganda and the American public is too delusional to realize it.
No, just to clarify what Russia did is illegal and a crime. But they don’t seem to be losing like our media outlets keep telling us they are
Well it's more that they are still there, Russia prior to the invasion was thought to be a near peer to the US. Ukraine was expected to fall in days or a few weeks at most and here we are years later and they are still fighting. And have not even taken all the land of the oblast that they've annexed.
Russia has lost the war they lost it in the first week, nobody is going to buy their equipment and they will no longer have the stocks to sell and they have had to beg Iran and North Korea for weapons to fight their war. They've been exposed as a fraud.
Unfortunately lots of people are going to die before the lesson is well and truly hammered home.
>Russia prior to the invasion was thought to be a near peer to the US
Definitely not. Maybe some of their modern equipment was thought to be near peer to the US, but in terms of numbers and logistics its not close at all. Like you could compare the Su-57 to the F-22 (realistically the F-22 is still way ahead), but Russia only has only like a dozen, not enough to make a difference, while the US has 187 F-22s.
Oh it’s even a dozen. They barely have 10 that are actually cleared for combat, and they were barely producing 1-2/year *before* the war started, so it’s likely decreased if it hasn’t had to stop entirely due to shortages.
Russia's war right now is already lost. They can prolong it for a very long time by doing what they do best in wars, throwing bodies at it until the other side runs out of ammo.
I literally never understand these comments lmfao the "media outlets" *barely* touch on the Ukraine war, and I've never once seen any unrealistic declaration of winning or losing. Anyone who's actually been following the war (and not exclusively vatnik Telegram) knows Ukraine did in fact have the upper hand for most of 2022 into 2023. The situation only really reversed when US aid dried up.
Right? The way public perception skews now, by the time they instituted a draft you'd already be fighting for your life. It's basically the last option.
And the russian army is a conscript army even outside of wartime circumstances. You either do your time or you spend the time you’d be spending in the army in prison.
The US is a volunteer army, everyone there actually signed up.
Russia isn't the United States, a
Ukraine is a perfect example of that.
Russia tried to copy Stormin Norman's homework for Iraq and fucked it up so badly they're in active force on force combat 2 years later due to unrealistic intelligence assessments and wonton corruption.
We are not Russia.
Yes, if you actually look at the battleplans for Ukriane they literally attempted desert storm with a helicopter focused attack force coming off the heels of precision cruise missile strikes in order to rapidly seize the closest international air port to the capital to force capitulation. Literally Stormin Norman's Iraq special.
Failed miserably because the Russian 'precision' cruise missiles failed. In the most important case the one intended for the national guard battalion protecting the airfield that would establish the air bridge missed by 500 feet, waking everyone up and alerting them to the war 3 minutes before it was declared, these men would establish the defensive element at Gostomel air port and fought off the Russian 311th and 46th VDV until the elite Ukrianian 5th Rapid Response Division special operations unit and a anti aircraft team could arive and aggravate Russian assault on the gostomel airstrip. This in turn bought 6 or so hours for the Ukrianian artillery brigade south of Gostomel to begin shelling the airfield with 152mm artillery which in turn is why this war has gone on for two years.
They lost the entire war before it even started because they huffed their own farts and thought they could out America the US.
[TLDR Stormin Norman my beloved RIP Pookie Bear](https://youtu.be/gpfyjkuIqw4?si=N7w0Osuno726Jfbp)
The US employs an entirely different theory of warfare from Russia and China. The US (and UK, Germany, etc) use Maneuver Warfare Theory that emphasizes small unit and individual efficiency over mass. Russia uses Firepower Theory aka Attrition Theory that relies on mass.
My nephew worked with recruiters for over a year to get enlisted, because he had to be 12 months clear of ADHD meds. Even in my day, folks got dropped from MEPS screening because of spinal and feet issues.
No, we'll never see another Vietnam draft.
you are correct. The Vietnam war and associated draft ended in the mid-70's. Do you think the U.S. government is going to care about ADHD is we are on the brink of losing a major conflict?
They already don’t, not really anyway. Once you pass basic you can get back on ADHD meds, you just have to be clear for the year leading up to when you leave for training.
For real. The amount of cope is unreal. If the USA needs soldiers for any reason they will get them. Fuck the voting cycle, war is much more impactful to governance than a 2 year voting cycle
I think we both know the post OP is talking about. It's worth going back and taking a look at it critically to see how people manipulate each other online.
It was meant to inflame. The title was something like, "What are your thoughts on joining the military or going to war?" First of all, two different things. I know a lot of people who have a positive view of joining the military, and few who have a positive view of going to war.
But second, look at the screenshot that OP used. It was from a far-right Twitter troll that pushed the whole "DEI mayor" attack on the black mayor of Baltimore after a ship crashed into the Key Bridge. The image itself, featuring a cartoon of a pride parade, was meant to suggest that the military was woke, or was now un-woke, or something? Whatever it was, the screenshot was totally gratuitous unless the point was to start an online argument over gays or queers or "wokeism" or whatnot.
Basically, the post felt like an effort to lob a bomb into the subreddit and get people to fight about gays or the military or U.S. foreign policy in an unproductive way. It's important to be mindful of people who want to get others inflamed and divided.
>"There's going to be a draft, and you're going to get drafted even if you have one arm and don't know the ABC's"
I don't think this country is going to be able to politically or institutionally handle a draft. An awful lot would need to change before it was no longer national suicide. That said, the argument that 77% of the population is unfit to serve is inaccurate because it's based on the selection standards of a volunteer military. The reason that 77% of the population can't get in is because a peacetime military force has the opportunity to be more selective. We sent just about anybody we could to Vietnam during the last draft, and if things got bad enough that we needed to re-institute the draft, a lot of the stuff we disqualified back in the 70s won't fly anymore. Moreover, we're a much more mechanized and specialized military than we were back then.
An awful lot of military folks drank too much of the kool aid and got convinced of their own superiority to the civilian population. In a situation where we're reverting back to conscript bodies on ground, shit's already so fucked up that we've already tossed out all that elitism the last 50 years of propaganda have baked into the head of every brokedick 19 year old jarhead that thinks they are special because they can fold sheets while being screamed at. Conscript armies are built different, so anything anybody experienced while serving from my era or today is irrelevant. The idea we're going back to that any time soon though, is as OP said though, silly.
Specially that bottom sheet it like doesn’t have corners the fuck you suppose to fold into?!?! Mine always turns into a 400 thread count ball of Egyptian cotton
I like to imagine what it would be like if some of these people lived during the cold war, where we were a computer glitch away from ww3 but like actually. The yearly ww3 scare nowadays is so played out. I cant wait until next month when theres something "oh no india still doesnt like pakistan, DAE ww3????" Or "xi jingping said the word taiwan in his sleep does this mean nuclear war???" Like lads its not happening
Probably because we are at peak tensions **since the cold war**. I'm not worried about it but to say there isn't any concern and that it won't happen is not true.
Same was true during the Cold War, doesn't mean there weren't multiple incidents where we came incredibly close to nuclear war. I can think of 2 different situations, maybe 3, where protocol demanded a nuclear launch but it didn't happen because random soldiers, not politicians or even generals, said no.
Also, Nixon ordered a nuclear strike on North Korea while drunk once, and Kissinger had to tell the generals to hold fire, which isn't particularly relevant but is funny.
Maybe, but every major war in history has had an entirely different political landscape to the previous one. So I don't think we should be so keen to write off war as impossible. I'm not saying it's probable, just not impossible.
The thing is, it's just as ridiculous to pretend WW3 can't happen, as it is to always think it's right around the corner. Bad shit can and has happened. We've been so so stupid close to global thermonuclear war on more than one occasion.
Even aside from nuclear war, every nation that ever fell was full of at least some people who were sure there was no way anything that terrible would happen to them. People in fascist dictatorships thought things were ok enough to stick around until the point when it suddenly wasn't.
Being a doomer is not a good idea, but neither is burying your head in the sand.
Until i have a logical reason to think ww3 is a possibility I'm not going to lose sleep about it. Bad shit does and will happen, but there is zero reason to think it will be ww3. There are no winners in ww3, no reason for anybody to want that. At no point in history has it been known that if you go to war, at very best you get a pyrrhic victory where youre slightly less nuked tham the other guy. Nukes are scary, but when it comes to war between superpowers theyre the greatest tool of peace that we have ever developed. They ensure no winners, and world leaders are well aware of that fact. And if for some reason xi or putin wakes up tommorow and decides to start the end of the human race just for funsies, the fuck am i gonna do about it?
I think people greatly underestimate the military power of the US… so many people say that we would get rolled by others, that is so far from the truth…
This can not be overstated. Anyone we are even kinda at odds with...their military technology, information systems, maintenance programs for readiness, surveillance, can not even come close to ours.
Now our allies and friends....yeah, they are close to our capabilities but not nearly on the same scale as ours.
Seriously… so many of my peers at my school would talk about how we would not “stand a chance” against China or Russia.. followed by me butting in or lecturing them about how America is the top world power and is #1 for a reason lol
If all you have is newspapers, TV watching the news....I think it's hard to understand how hinky the other countries run their military defense and how much they spend. Saddam, Osama Bid Laden, Putin do a lot of saber rattling and your arm chair research might not be that good.
When you are serving your country and actually see the other countries doing their thing because it impacts you doing your thing effectively...or you serve alongside other country's military members....the realities become clearer.
All depends on the situation. All things being equal, yes America would wipe their asses with Russia or China. The problem with this is that a conventional war with Russia or China is much more likely to be waged on or close to their territory. Logistically supporting the US military becomes much more of a challenge in those conditions, especially for a potentially long, large-scale conflict.
Edit: Additionally, while we have the technological edge right now, China has the manufacturing edge, and could more easily be transformed to a war economy than the US. Even Russia is outproducing us on artillery shells right now.
Iirc The US military aims to be able to fight two peer nations at once on separate fronts, pretty much whenever they might have to. It would pretty much take most of the world's military powers uniting against us to pose an actual existential threat, and even then, we still have *plenty* of nukes to make it everyone's problem. Unless that happens there just isn't going to be a draft lmfao
As an enlisted it really blows my mind how very little people actually know about the service. Of course it’s not romanticized like the movies make it seem, but hell it’s not that bad. Everyone’s go to argument seems to be “I’m not taking part in imperialist blah blah fart noise” or “it doesn’t matter what job you do, you’ll get pulled to the front and die” like, hell nah. They don’t want your slow ass at the front. They want trained fighters on the front. If it’s really THAT bad they would 100% draft new people and train them in a combat MOS rather than pullin the paperwork boy who only shoots once a year out to the trenches.
People do not realize how good an infantry squad that has been together for a year is. They do not want some guy from the JAG office getting in the way
It’s insane how little the people on this sub seem to understand this. Infantrymen aren’t McNamaras morons, they’re usually really good at their job. They wouldn’t just grab random people to do infantry because they don’t want idiots in combat.
I'd put any test score I've ever taken up against someone that wants to think infantry is just a bunch of morons with no options 😂
28 on my ACT and a 99 on the ASVAB and went to college for a couple years before I decided that shit was boring me and signed up for a 6 year 03xx contract.
Clearly this means infantry platoons are filled with dumb rock eaters. Though I prefer crayons.
Also all the people in technical jobs. Someone still has to fix the comms, equipment, and feed people. What the U.S. military succeeds at and what makes us so good is our logistics. We are able to provide beans, bullets, and band-aids anywhere the infantry are.
My kid was in IT. He barely made it into the service (vision problems; he was given a waiver...but he did well on the ASVAB and had some college courses in computing) and no way were they going to allow him anywhere near the front; he was in Air Force and wasn't allowed to be airborne. He spent 6 years doing whatever it was he did with IT and now has a contractor job doing the same thing for 4x the money.
agree with you partly, but as a borderline GenX/Millennial OIF vet who stumbled here from the front page;
>“it doesn’t matter what job you do, you’ll get pulled to the front and die” like, hell nah. They don’t want your slow ass at the front. They want trained fighters on the front. If it’s really THAT bad they would 100% draft new people and train them in a combat MOS rather than pullin the paperwork boy who only shoots once a year out to the trenches
I remember the early days of Iraq, like '03-'05 when things were such a clusterfuck that intel guys were pulling convoy security, or they were pulling whatever warm bodies they could from cooks to mechanics into urban combat ops. Thats why the Army created the CAB; so non-infantry could be recognized for combat operations, since they weren't eligible for the CIB.
Now, by mid-'06 they mostly had all this straightened out; and hopefully there were some good lessons learned and mistakes that won't be repeated; but there are inherent risk with any MOS in a combat zone, especially in asymmetric warfare.
What's funny is, if you read the actual selective service act you see just how outdated and contradictory it is. Which just further my belief that we won't see it in action any time soon.
USMC combat vet here. Don't join the USMC during peacetime. All your sacrifices will mean nothing.
Only join the USMC during war time. Join the other branches all the time. The benefits are nice, the pay is nice,
I think the reason the military is having trouble filling its recruiting quotas is because the millennial parents of Gen Z kids have told them not to do it. We all know not to trust the government, as far as the military is concerned. I hope, anyway.
That, and the last 20 years of war, was a pretty demoralizing conflict. It wasn't a "justified" or "heroes" war and a lot of vets coming back were honest about how messed up it was, and the journalism was more revealing as well.
Yep. We're finding out more and more about how the government does these coups around the world just to destabilize a region. Sell more missiles and cluster bombs. Spend a few us troop lives.
Tbh i would have like to join the military issue is I don’t see the point in the wars we fight we go and just leave
We don’t help the country become a democracy that values freedom
We go destroy and dip
Like im not dying in a pointless war
Rule of thumb: war is a VERY small part of the job.
Most of it (when it isn't menial office labor) is actually humanitarian work and peacekeeping in countries who ask you to go there. See Korea, Japan, and literally everything the US Military does in Africa.
Who was it that was on the front giving out aid in the earthquakes in Turkey? The US military.
See why countries ask for the Army Corps of Engineers to build bridges and roads for them.
Most soldiers do not go to Iraq or Syria. Most are in countries that want you there because it makes them safer.
This isn’t exactly accurate. Iraq is 100% more of a democracy now then it was under saddam. Afghanistan was being turned into a democracy but it was corrupt and couldn’t survive w out US intervention so we left.
I still think the wars weren’t worth it but what you’re complaining about never happened. We didn’t stay there for decades dropping bombs all day
You are probably better off financially being an accountant somewhere with low cost of living, like working for Eli Lilly in Indianapolis or something.
I was not equipped to enter the real world, being in the military is like training wheels in a lot of ways, it's building me up for when I reenter the regular world, I'd highly recommend it
It's not only medical checks, 56% of adults aged 18-25 are obese. Statistically speaking, over 50% of these comments complaining about a draft are far too fat to serve anyway.
Edit: In response to your last point about draftees not being good: Look no further than looking up what happened during The Falkland War, and the Iran-Iraq War in the 80's. The Argentines, Iraqis and Iranians all used conscripted soldiers and it was a clusterfuck each time. Granted they still used professional soldiers as well, but those are the most modern examples I can think of. Aside from Russia right now.
>56% of adults aged 18-25 are obese.
Amazing that this blatantly false claim got so many upvotes. Don't make stuff up. Check your facts.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
Nowhere near that many young people are obese.
The link you gave doesn’t deny his claim at all.
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786516](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786516)
This one shows that obesity trends have greatly increased to 32% for from 2017-2018. And that was almost 8 years ago. It’s probably way worse now and obesity doesn’t even include people at the upper echelons of overweight who still wouldn’t even pass military physical test
If the situation came up where the draft was needed, the government would put you on a forced diet and keep you on boot camp until you are fit enough. They already do that now for people who are too fat to join.
I just retired from the Army after doing 30 years. Among many roles I worked heavily in military accessions. There is no draft planned. And it is true that most men who are draft age are either too fat or too mentally ill by current standards.
But if there **was** a draft, the military would loosen and waive many standards. The military would do a couple of things:
1. Create a massive fat camp system all around the country. They already started this at FT Jackson about 2 years ago for volunteers. It would just go nationwide at multiple garrisons in every state.
2. Expand the “McNamara’s Morons” style academic program at FT Jackson to go nationwide. This will get “borderline intelligent” draftees over the ASVAB to qualify for military service.
3. Most of the “soft” mood disorder BH stuff would get immediately waived. History of anxiety, depression, ADHD et cetera.
4. Overall loosening and waiving of a lot of conditions that are demonstrably stable.
Trust me, the Army will find a way to bring you in if there was a national emergency.
You put into words exactly what I was thinking. If there’s a draft, literally look at our history of drafting. So many things get waived. You’ll see “military articles” about how most Americans aren’t fit to serve, but in the case of a draft, a ton of it goes out the window. Good on you for spitting only facts dude.
I thought this was about to be some military impersonation bs or people thinking they’re hot shit just because they have a military ID cause someone in their family is/was active duty.
Instead I learned something new, thanks OP 👍
the same rumors were going around after 9/11 / during Iraq. we didn’t do conscription during that protracted shitshow. what would need to happen to get us to reinstate conscription is a terrifying thought but extremely unlikely.
In the modern era, if we get to a point to where we need a draft, it’ll be because we NEED a draft. Like something so fucked up is happening that our livelihood and security is legitimately at risk. In that case I’d think 99% of Americans would be very on board
Agreed. A lot of people think of draft and think of how it worked back in the Vietnam war, but America's attitude has changed dramatically since then. There were such massive, widespread protests to it back then, and traumatizing an entire generation created such a shockwave through American culture. And unlike many of America's past atrocities, the vast majority of the population in the present day and age can acknowledge how horrible it was. I genuinely think we learned our lesson on that one. I have a hard time believing our government could justify/get away with bringing back the draft unless there was active conflict on US soil.
And honestly, that's how I think it should be. If our country is *directly* under attack, we kind of have an obligation to protect our communities. It's a shitty situation for sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.
Military here
Draft won’t ever happen unless it’s WWII scale or larger. In such a case, it is fair to assume there would be a general popular will for war - like there was in the world wars. US operations rely heavily on precision and advanced equipment, unlike others such as Russia who just drown their enemies in blood.
If a draft came however, I’m sure many of the medical requirements would be waived. A very large amount of medical disqualification happens because the militaries standards are mental health a straight out of 1990 and there isn’t much will or impetus to update it in a quick fashion.
If such a large war broke out that a draft was required many of the sum arbitrary and capricious requirements would probably be waived. It’s just that now, even with the recruiting shortage, the US can afford to be choosy.
That's true. There are some paperwork waivers for ADHD, mild autism, etc. And many things are case by case basis. I'm a USMC Reserves Corporal.
I see enough of the "im not gonna go fight and die for someone else's pocket-filling" rhetoric on the internet, and while it's true, it's very redundant. Some people have few to no other choices in life, while some are looking for experience. And there are many people who join who don't see combat or even a deployment out of the US.
Just stay humble and use your best judgment. I may not agree with everything in the military but for most things I deal with it
And people often forget that the “pocket filling” is for their own lifestyle as well. Imagine if we were cut off from global oil markets, or if trade via sea were disrupted indefinitely, or we couldn’t get chips from Taiwan. Honestly, Gen Z should want to fight for Taiwan because it’s where all of our more advanced gadgets come from (at least in part).
>Stop talking about the military id you don't know anything
I could say the exact same given what you wrote.
Draft: first place they will draft is prisons that house veterans. After that, the rest of the prison population. Then if they still need bodies, they will give 0 fucks about whether or not people are qualified mentally or physically. For Vietnam they allowed non-fit people to volunteer. They had to attend a specific course prior to help them be physically fit.
>War, Politics, and War Crimes: Also if any president actually enacted the military draft in this modern day and age it would be end end of their political career.
Fun fact, the president DOES NOT have the authority to initiate a draft. It requires a literal 2/3 vote in both the house and Senate for a draft to be initiated. The president would have no say in the matter.
>Also the military institution/generals hates the idea of a draft; due to the fact, no suprise that draftees aren't any good
Some of the best soldiers in both WW2 and Vietnam were draftees. Idk who told you that generals hate draftees, they aren't ideal but there are gems sometimes. There are plenty of garbage people in the military now that are beyond below optimal.
>Lastly some of you all think that if gen z goes to war there will be alot war crimes, the military literally has systems in place to prevent such
Hahahahahaha, oh wait you are serious? Hundreds of war crimes happened in Iraq and Afghanistan
- source: person that likely out ranks OP
I'd just like to say I'm not denying or justifying war crimes. Nothing in my post insinuates that, I deadass said "the military has systems in place to prevent that" Do war crimes happen, yes. Should they be punished yes. What's crazy is you all really putting words in my mouth and making assumptions, really out here showing why people can't talk and have discussions nowadays.
My bipolar disorder, heart condition, and leg deformity showing up to save my ass from the draft:
https://preview.redd.it/mdv5h5svlixc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d868fd0236078d98d33f1d151c115cae23189d81
>Lastly some of you all think that if gen z goes to war there will be alot war crimes, the military literally has systems in place to prevent such
Yeah that's the part I don't agree with at all. You're naive af if you think that. The US millitary has committed massive amounts of war crimes in literally every conflict they've ever been involved in. Why do you think it would be different this time? Those "systems in place" are just for PR. Like, you need to literally have ignored everything the US military has ever done to think those systems work.
As active duty, it’s really really annoying. 95% of people running their mouth have absolutely 0 clue what they are saying. I’ve seen shit, I’ve done shit. Some good, some bad. I’m also still totally fucking sane and a loving father and husband. I’m a normal fucking dude
One thing that pisses me off is when people bash us for joining and claim that we are supporting wars. That we should simply refuse to fight.
I would say the majority of us joined because we needed a way out of our current situations.
Draftees historically have not been necessarily worse than enlisted, especially considering they are often more educated/affluent and therefore you don't get the same distribution as some people who joined out of desperation for money.
But I agree that the situation would probably have to get very fucked for them to institute a draft again.
I have an active genetic illness that requires constant bloodwork. Somehow with changing how I eat they haven’t nagged me about not getting my levels checked. Assholes should have made it standing monthly orders and not what they’re currently doing. I have hereditary hemochromatosis it basically means my body wants to fuck around and find out how strong the magnets are in an mri
Either way the constant bloodwork and the military diet would not be good for my levels. Their diet would have me needing treatment every month, and the only reason why I’m eligible to donate blood is because of the disorder because I pass out almost every single time (or that they really loosen the requirements for O- donors)
>Also hate to break it to you but 77% of americans between age 18-24 are unqualified to serve, and it’s literally not that hard to get disqualified from service. Military recruiters are large impart struggling cus of the new medical checks that are disqualifying potential recruits left and right.
Seconding this. I know a guy who wanted so badly to serve in the military but got denied for a freaking shellfish allergy.
Yeah, I'm going to be honest, as much as I despise the military system and the predatory tactics they use to get people, and overall ethics of it, I don't see a draft happening anywhere in the near or distant future. Many people wouldn't qualify like you said, even if they included women in the draft. Also, it is a stupid decision knowing what happened, there's a reason I have an uncle in Canada
But I got downvoted by r/Genz users for saying while the military has bad history, having a absurd ideology that says “military bad, death to America, anyone who disagree go to gulag” was a iddy bitty extremist.
Surely r/Genz is the true arbitrate of geopolitics and military politics.
The older you get the more you realise most people are uneducated to argue about what they’re spewing. If you’re into fitness seriously you’ll hear just about the dumbest things from non gym goers and beginners that refuse to learn. The same is said for anything that requires people to actively be in it and constantly learn from which is why a lot of posts about the military or anything political are usually just that, air.
Just ignorance in an echo chamber.
Yeah it’s definitely easy to be unfit to serve. I’m a perfectly fit 19 year old with no issues at all, and was disqualified because I had a surgery whenever I was younger to remove excess tendons that we’re giving me issues. I literally have no left over side effects from that though and was 100% in. Still disqualified and was told there was no waver for that kind of thing. So yeah it’s really easy to be disqualified.
To add onto this
Most people don’t know anything about what the US military does, it’s purpose, and everything that it entails.
There’s plenty of people that outrank me that don’t know what the hell is going on beyond Fox News.
I wish people would only say stuff when they see blatant criminal behavior. I can guarantee that anyone who says we overspend on our military has no clue why it all hashes out the way it does.
I just wanted to go to college man, not get lectured by my peers on US Imperialism and war crimes. I'm sorry I was poor as shit and saw an opportunity to turn it around lol. I turn wrenches on jets all day, it's not like I'm out here eating babies or something. Yet.
I find it interesting that if you think the war situation is drastic enough for a draft, military requirements wouldn't drop. This is pretty standard knowledge that they would lower the standards
>Also hate to break it to you but 77% of americans between age 18-24 are unqualified to serve, and its literally not that hard to get disqualified from service.
Oh don't worry, a good long world war will edge those qualifications to be looser and looser. By the end WWII the Germans were putting children, old men, and just about anyone with a pulse into military service. ...Pretty sure they Weekend At Bernie's a few guys even, just corpses on machine guns, propped up with sticks.
Oh stop for shits sake.
Nobody is getting drafted in the US.
Honestly if the US went to war currently, for real, full on assault, it would be first global connection.
Kill the satellite global connection. That would wipe out entire cultures worldwide.
It would create internal war within any society.
Future is no longer war and nukes.
Shut down Americas connectivity?
Worse than nukes.
Any society would collapse.
I’m a military historian, I come from a long line of military officers from the USCG, USAF, and USMC. Anyway, I’m fairly confident that if the need were truly great enough, we could initiate a draft and get the soldiers we needed into shape. Getting people in shape is not rocket science and our military academies know how to do it. Most likely, we would send out-of-shape citizens to a conditioning camp and get their physicality up to boot camp conditions, then ship them off for formal military training.
Also, the age old trick for a super power like the US is to simply conscript foreign legions into the military. It has worked several times in the past, but it has to go hand-in-hand with strong diplomacy. For example, Napoleon was exceptional at recruiting like-minded foreigners to fight under his banner under the pretense that supreme victory would allow them to overthrow their monarch and establish a sovereign republic. The Romans often used Roman citizenship as a way to incentivize would-be enemies to instead fight for them. We certainly know that many non-Americans want US citizenship, much in the same way that 19th century European migrants did when they volunteered to fight in the Civil War and the Mexican-American War. It would be a fast way for people to prove their loyalty to the US and separate those who truly want to be an American from the migrants who just want to milk America without contributing to America.
Medical and potentially even age requirements would be waived if the situation was dire enough. But yes, there's no realistic scenario where that happens. The US would have to completely bungle an invasion past any reasonable possibility that you might as well throw the threat of alien invasion in.
You aren’t gonna get drafted the army doesn’t want a bunch of Redditors anyway besides you still have to get through active and reserves before a draft
Exactly and the chances of them being qualified are pretty low now that we started using Genesis
Heart murmur age 2? Needs a waiver
Self harm- completely no
Mental health- No
Only 1% of Americans are in the military and a smaller amount of that are Gen Z, so yeah it’s no surprise that most people don’t know much about the military at all. Source: am military
4 years active Marines, 6 years Army National Guard, and current Navy officer. It’s comical reading this sub from time to time when kids talk about the military and policy.
But there was a draft for the Vietnam war when American territory wasn’t in any danger of invasion. If the draft would not be realistically reinstated, if calling for a draft would be political suicide, then why are all of the attempts to disband men needing to register for selective services rejected? Why are American men still to this day punished if they don’t register for selective service?
I agree. If a draft ever happens, it will be one of the worst war situations AND it would lead towards women fighting/being drafted as well. (It's basically the last step in the emancipation of the woman, and it's not entirely unthinkable that it would happen if it were a Western country that was invaded/attacked.)
This is pretty common with this generation. Building a strong biased view of something without a lick of research or nuance of any kind. Using only heresay and social media posts to base their views and then post them on here like gospel.
Its really unfortunate because the military can be an extremely useful and helpful tool for young people to jumpstart a career and develop their skills for as little as a 4/6 year contract. Not to mention health benefits, college benefits, and VA benefits after their service.
Not everyone is a combat soldier, not everyone sees war, not everyone develops PTSD or is in a situation to do so. ALOT of jobs are pretty much civilian jobs but in uniform. Civil Engineering, Veterinarian, Vehicle Maintenance, Air Traffic Control, Human Resources, etc.
Learn about what you are talking about before talking about it.
Yea anytime I see redditors post about the military I roll my eyes. I never served but considered many times and simple google searches would make them realize the shit they’re saying is extremely regarded.
If you live in Western Europe, Canada or the United States who have a near 0 cause for concern. Our enemies are far weaker and busy fighting their own wars.
Apparently you don’t understand how drafts work during “total war”. If your people’s existence is at stake you better believe your ass is going to a military branch lol there are different classifications to “not qualified”. If you can’t qualify to be a gunfighter or something in combat arms that doesn’t mean you won’t sit behind a desk pushing papers, issuing uniforms, cleaning gear, driving truck, etc. and if you are that messed up as a human being you’ll be supporting the war effort somehow and or be affected by it. War with Russia and the east isn’t like what we’ve read in the books and seen on the movies/history documentaries. It would be total all out global nuclear and conventional warfare like we have never seen on planet earth. Let’s hope it never happens. 🤷🏻♂️
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I swear the amount of dumbfucks here who are all like "There's going to be a draft, and you're going to get drafted even if you have one arm and don't know the ABC's" is astonishing.
Have you seen what they do in shitty Russia? They're sending practically every young man to the ol' meat grinder.
For the US to resort to this, there would likely have to be an invasion of the US homeland. There are multiple reasons why this would be something nearly impossible for an enemy to pull off, let alone pull off successfully...
We’ll get nuked first
Missiles and long range bombs from like a handful of places is the only way the US can get hit really. It costs an insane amount to field your troops that far away without a base to supply/operate out of.
I would wager no major power has the logistics for that either.
I’d bet my life savings on it >!which granted is basically nothing!<
You are on 🤝
There are certainly enough nukes in the possession of Russia and China to ruin the US, but Mutually Assured Destruction is a hell of a deterrent.
The primary threat would be SLBMs practically speaking, long range bombs requires Tu95s to somehow not be one of the most easily detected aircraft in Russian service, and Tu22s wouldn't be able to realistically pierce NORAD either. The only way this works is if Russia were to poke holes in NORAD which would require the destruction of the American pacific fleet and a land invasion of Alaska and Canada.
True. They also don't use SEAD/DEAD as a doctorine, but more as a capability, so would be super vulnerable if they somehow even made it through. What about China though? Legit asking cause I know nothing about Chinese strategic bombers (if they even have them?)
Russia does have SEAD, but their missiles are remarkably outdated and generally still utilize analog technology. Also, china only has one strategic bomber and it's the H6, which is a literal tupapev 16. It's a joke.
You can correct me if I’m wrong (I’m one of those people OP is talking about) but my understanding of SEAD is that American is one of the only militaries to actually practice it in a significant way.
Oh yeah, I just meant they don't so much carry out dedicated SEAD missions as much as chuck some antirad missiles on a mixed loadout before they slap the plane on the ass and send it on it's way. And just after a quick squiz at the wiki, it looks like the H6 is mostly setup for a naval ASuW role. Only real threat they can pose against a peer country are some cruise missiles. It's also got a slightly abysmal combat range... It do be a bit of a joke.
Finally someone who has a rough idea of what a Russian attack on North America would look like. The only thing you are missing is that long range hypersonic and/or glide vehicles could make it much easier for Russia to launch stand off strikes from outside NATOs range. Three issues though. 1. Russia’s “hypersonic” missiles are really just super fast air launched cruise missiles. They aren’t reeeally hypersonic which means 2. They are susceptible to modern air defenses. 3. In addition, Russian manufacturing of these missiles isn’t particularly great.
It costs an insane amount FOR US! We have the most powerful military, the most capable navy and the biggest war chest of any country. We can project power like it’s our business, because it kind of is. That’s what we absolutely do the best. Now, imagine a country like russia or China trying the same thing. It’s not just the cost, it’s the fact that they don’t have the manpower, and the toys to invade America effectively
A ground invasion of this continent is impractical at best, suicidal at worst. Too much varying terrain, temperature extremes. It would also be nearly impossible to get ground support to said invading army. We’re pretty safe, and fools who think we’re going to get invaded need to quit watching Red Dawn
It is also important to point out those who keep watching red dawn though. A sizable portion of US Citizens would love nothing more than a chance to take on some invaders. Add more weapons than anywhere else on earth. And then add the fact that every military veteran received guerilla warfare practice/training with 20 years in the desert….. leans more towards suicidal. And no I’m not saying that the guerillas would be Rambo but fighting off a massive insurgency while fighting the worlds largest and well funded military in human history would be impossible, save nuclear Armageddon.
Unless it was Canada. Shifty lil 🍁s
Where things are now, I expect TMIC will initiate the first nuclear strike. Then because if TMIC, we’ll get nuked second. That was the point behind Hillary’s we’ll ’review our nuclear policy’ line. Bet y’ur wondering what TMIC is. The Madmen In Charge.
But before that the entire power grid would be taken down
As a continuation, with the advancements in military technology, ground warfare on a massive scale to require a draft would be infinitely less effective. We see this in the Russian/Ukraine war, where Russia, struggling to equip its larger force with modern equipment, has led to a somewhat one-sided war.
Somewhat one sided??? Ukraine is not doing nearly as good as we may think. We’re being fed a shit ton of propaganda and the American public is too delusional to realize it. No, just to clarify what Russia did is illegal and a crime. But they don’t seem to be losing like our media outlets keep telling us they are
Well it's more that they are still there, Russia prior to the invasion was thought to be a near peer to the US. Ukraine was expected to fall in days or a few weeks at most and here we are years later and they are still fighting. And have not even taken all the land of the oblast that they've annexed. Russia has lost the war they lost it in the first week, nobody is going to buy their equipment and they will no longer have the stocks to sell and they have had to beg Iran and North Korea for weapons to fight their war. They've been exposed as a fraud. Unfortunately lots of people are going to die before the lesson is well and truly hammered home.
While all that is true Russia and Putin are still powerful enough to cause a tremendous amount of carnage.
The only victory Putin could hope to achieve is pyrrhic at best.
>Russia prior to the invasion was thought to be a near peer to the US Definitely not. Maybe some of their modern equipment was thought to be near peer to the US, but in terms of numbers and logistics its not close at all. Like you could compare the Su-57 to the F-22 (realistically the F-22 is still way ahead), but Russia only has only like a dozen, not enough to make a difference, while the US has 187 F-22s.
Oh it’s even a dozen. They barely have 10 that are actually cleared for combat, and they were barely producing 1-2/year *before* the war started, so it’s likely decreased if it hasn’t had to stop entirely due to shortages.
Russia's war right now is already lost. They can prolong it for a very long time by doing what they do best in wars, throwing bodies at it until the other side runs out of ammo.
I literally never understand these comments lmfao the "media outlets" *barely* touch on the Ukraine war, and I've never once seen any unrealistic declaration of winning or losing. Anyone who's actually been following the war (and not exclusively vatnik Telegram) knows Ukraine did in fact have the upper hand for most of 2022 into 2023. The situation only really reversed when US aid dried up.
They're not losing, but they're certainly not winning. They're stuck in stalemate for the next few years.
Right? The way public perception skews now, by the time they instituted a draft you'd already be fighting for your life. It's basically the last option.
Have to be a fucking extraterrestrial invasion for a draft to come up.
We’re not in Russia though
And the russian army is a conscript army even outside of wartime circumstances. You either do your time or you spend the time you’d be spending in the army in prison. The US is a volunteer army, everyone there actually signed up.
What does Russia have to do with what happens here? Are you stupid? Don't answer that question 😂
Russia isn't the United States, a Ukraine is a perfect example of that. Russia tried to copy Stormin Norman's homework for Iraq and fucked it up so badly they're in active force on force combat 2 years later due to unrealistic intelligence assessments and wonton corruption. We are not Russia.
So I’m not super knowledgeable on tactics and whatnot but is that what happened tactically? They attempted US strategy/methods? Genuinely curious.
Yes, if you actually look at the battleplans for Ukriane they literally attempted desert storm with a helicopter focused attack force coming off the heels of precision cruise missile strikes in order to rapidly seize the closest international air port to the capital to force capitulation. Literally Stormin Norman's Iraq special. Failed miserably because the Russian 'precision' cruise missiles failed. In the most important case the one intended for the national guard battalion protecting the airfield that would establish the air bridge missed by 500 feet, waking everyone up and alerting them to the war 3 minutes before it was declared, these men would establish the defensive element at Gostomel air port and fought off the Russian 311th and 46th VDV until the elite Ukrianian 5th Rapid Response Division special operations unit and a anti aircraft team could arive and aggravate Russian assault on the gostomel airstrip. This in turn bought 6 or so hours for the Ukrianian artillery brigade south of Gostomel to begin shelling the airfield with 152mm artillery which in turn is why this war has gone on for two years. They lost the entire war before it even started because they huffed their own farts and thought they could out America the US. [TLDR Stormin Norman my beloved RIP Pookie Bear](https://youtu.be/gpfyjkuIqw4?si=N7w0Osuno726Jfbp)
But that’s the thing, it’s Russia and they also do have a fair bit more regular guys that actually want to be in the military.
They use conscripts during peacetime. Russia doesn’t have a luxury of volunteers.
The US employs an entirely different theory of warfare from Russia and China. The US (and UK, Germany, etc) use Maneuver Warfare Theory that emphasizes small unit and individual efficiency over mass. Russia uses Firepower Theory aka Attrition Theory that relies on mass.
This is basically their theory for everything... looking at number of worker casualties to build st. Petersburg
You really comparing us military to russian military? Lol
As a historian I can tell you that's just Russia's trademark move.
My nephew worked with recruiters for over a year to get enlisted, because he had to be 12 months clear of ADHD meds. Even in my day, folks got dropped from MEPS screening because of spinal and feet issues. No, we'll never see another Vietnam draft.
you are correct. The Vietnam war and associated draft ended in the mid-70's. Do you think the U.S. government is going to care about ADHD is we are on the brink of losing a major conflict?
They already don’t, not really anyway. Once you pass basic you can get back on ADHD meds, you just have to be clear for the year leading up to when you leave for training.
For real. The amount of cope is unreal. If the USA needs soldiers for any reason they will get them. Fuck the voting cycle, war is much more impactful to governance than a 2 year voting cycle
I think we both know the post OP is talking about. It's worth going back and taking a look at it critically to see how people manipulate each other online. It was meant to inflame. The title was something like, "What are your thoughts on joining the military or going to war?" First of all, two different things. I know a lot of people who have a positive view of joining the military, and few who have a positive view of going to war. But second, look at the screenshot that OP used. It was from a far-right Twitter troll that pushed the whole "DEI mayor" attack on the black mayor of Baltimore after a ship crashed into the Key Bridge. The image itself, featuring a cartoon of a pride parade, was meant to suggest that the military was woke, or was now un-woke, or something? Whatever it was, the screenshot was totally gratuitous unless the point was to start an online argument over gays or queers or "wokeism" or whatnot. Basically, the post felt like an effort to lob a bomb into the subreddit and get people to fight about gays or the military or U.S. foreign policy in an unproductive way. It's important to be mindful of people who want to get others inflamed and divided.
Literally what it was. During election season too it wouldn't shock me if it was a foreign aggravation post.
This is the only correct answer.
Not understanding that draft rules are different than current rules is also stupid. It's like the blind leading the blind in this sub Soccer: dav
>"There's going to be a draft, and you're going to get drafted even if you have one arm and don't know the ABC's" I don't think this country is going to be able to politically or institutionally handle a draft. An awful lot would need to change before it was no longer national suicide. That said, the argument that 77% of the population is unfit to serve is inaccurate because it's based on the selection standards of a volunteer military. The reason that 77% of the population can't get in is because a peacetime military force has the opportunity to be more selective. We sent just about anybody we could to Vietnam during the last draft, and if things got bad enough that we needed to re-institute the draft, a lot of the stuff we disqualified back in the 70s won't fly anymore. Moreover, we're a much more mechanized and specialized military than we were back then. An awful lot of military folks drank too much of the kool aid and got convinced of their own superiority to the civilian population. In a situation where we're reverting back to conscript bodies on ground, shit's already so fucked up that we've already tossed out all that elitism the last 50 years of propaganda have baked into the head of every brokedick 19 year old jarhead that thinks they are special because they can fold sheets while being screamed at. Conscript armies are built different, so anything anybody experienced while serving from my era or today is irrelevant. The idea we're going back to that any time soon though, is as OP said though, silly.
Hey, folding sheets I hard.
Specially that bottom sheet it like doesn’t have corners the fuck you suppose to fold into?!?! Mine always turns into a 400 thread count ball of Egyptian cotton
I’m amazed by the mind who thinks there is going to be now when there wasn’t one after September 11th or for the Iraq War
Most of it is probably propaganda to get people to vote out the incumbent by winning the younger vote
Bro we literally have to fight like it’s the 1960s again bro 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️‼️‼️‼️‼️
Yup. Each branch disqualified me in 2015 because of a PEANUT ALLERGY. Blessing in disguise for real though lol
I like to imagine what it would be like if some of these people lived during the cold war, where we were a computer glitch away from ww3 but like actually. The yearly ww3 scare nowadays is so played out. I cant wait until next month when theres something "oh no india still doesnt like pakistan, DAE ww3????" Or "xi jingping said the word taiwan in his sleep does this mean nuclear war???" Like lads its not happening
Probably because we are at peak tensions **since the cold war**. I'm not worried about it but to say there isn't any concern and that it won't happen is not true.
A war between superpowers has no winners and world leaders know this. Even putin isnt deranged enough to not be aware of that fact.
Same was true during the Cold War, doesn't mean there weren't multiple incidents where we came incredibly close to nuclear war. I can think of 2 different situations, maybe 3, where protocol demanded a nuclear launch but it didn't happen because random soldiers, not politicians or even generals, said no. Also, Nixon ordered a nuclear strike on North Korea while drunk once, and Kissinger had to tell the generals to hold fire, which isn't particularly relevant but is funny.
And the political landscape is entirely different today than it was during the cold war.
Maybe, but every major war in history has had an entirely different political landscape to the previous one. So I don't think we should be so keen to write off war as impossible. I'm not saying it's probable, just not impossible.
It's not impossible for me to spontaneously drop dead in the next hour but I dont sit here and worry about that fact.
you still alive?
They got them! Noooo!!!
but the leaders are the same, they’re all old as fuck 😭
The thing is, it's just as ridiculous to pretend WW3 can't happen, as it is to always think it's right around the corner. Bad shit can and has happened. We've been so so stupid close to global thermonuclear war on more than one occasion. Even aside from nuclear war, every nation that ever fell was full of at least some people who were sure there was no way anything that terrible would happen to them. People in fascist dictatorships thought things were ok enough to stick around until the point when it suddenly wasn't. Being a doomer is not a good idea, but neither is burying your head in the sand.
Until i have a logical reason to think ww3 is a possibility I'm not going to lose sleep about it. Bad shit does and will happen, but there is zero reason to think it will be ww3. There are no winners in ww3, no reason for anybody to want that. At no point in history has it been known that if you go to war, at very best you get a pyrrhic victory where youre slightly less nuked tham the other guy. Nukes are scary, but when it comes to war between superpowers theyre the greatest tool of peace that we have ever developed. They ensure no winners, and world leaders are well aware of that fact. And if for some reason xi or putin wakes up tommorow and decides to start the end of the human race just for funsies, the fuck am i gonna do about it?
💀 at the xi jingping comment.
Bear in mind, not all armies are as modern, well disciplined or have as high standards as the US military.
I think people greatly underestimate the military power of the US… so many people say that we would get rolled by others, that is so far from the truth…
This can not be overstated. Anyone we are even kinda at odds with...their military technology, information systems, maintenance programs for readiness, surveillance, can not even come close to ours. Now our allies and friends....yeah, they are close to our capabilities but not nearly on the same scale as ours.
Seriously… so many of my peers at my school would talk about how we would not “stand a chance” against China or Russia.. followed by me butting in or lecturing them about how America is the top world power and is #1 for a reason lol
If all you have is newspapers, TV watching the news....I think it's hard to understand how hinky the other countries run their military defense and how much they spend. Saddam, Osama Bid Laden, Putin do a lot of saber rattling and your arm chair research might not be that good. When you are serving your country and actually see the other countries doing their thing because it impacts you doing your thing effectively...or you serve alongside other country's military members....the realities become clearer.
All depends on the situation. All things being equal, yes America would wipe their asses with Russia or China. The problem with this is that a conventional war with Russia or China is much more likely to be waged on or close to their territory. Logistically supporting the US military becomes much more of a challenge in those conditions, especially for a potentially long, large-scale conflict. Edit: Additionally, while we have the technological edge right now, China has the manufacturing edge, and could more easily be transformed to a war economy than the US. Even Russia is outproducing us on artillery shells right now.
Iirc The US military aims to be able to fight two peer nations at once on separate fronts, pretty much whenever they might have to. It would pretty much take most of the world's military powers uniting against us to pose an actual existential threat, and even then, we still have *plenty* of nukes to make it everyone's problem. Unless that happens there just isn't going to be a draft lmfao
Yes, the military is trying to be battle ready on 2 war fronts at all times, just in case we ever need to be exactly that.
Not to mention we have more foreign military bases than every other country combined..
I hate feeding the American superiority complex, but in terms of military you guys are wayyyy ahead.
Case in point: russia lmfao
As an enlisted it really blows my mind how very little people actually know about the service. Of course it’s not romanticized like the movies make it seem, but hell it’s not that bad. Everyone’s go to argument seems to be “I’m not taking part in imperialist blah blah fart noise” or “it doesn’t matter what job you do, you’ll get pulled to the front and die” like, hell nah. They don’t want your slow ass at the front. They want trained fighters on the front. If it’s really THAT bad they would 100% draft new people and train them in a combat MOS rather than pullin the paperwork boy who only shoots once a year out to the trenches.
People do not realize how good an infantry squad that has been together for a year is. They do not want some guy from the JAG office getting in the way
It's actually amazing what battle drill 1A looks like with a shit hot infantry squad
It’s insane how little the people on this sub seem to understand this. Infantrymen aren’t McNamaras morons, they’re usually really good at their job. They wouldn’t just grab random people to do infantry because they don’t want idiots in combat.
I'd put any test score I've ever taken up against someone that wants to think infantry is just a bunch of morons with no options 😂 28 on my ACT and a 99 on the ASVAB and went to college for a couple years before I decided that shit was boring me and signed up for a 6 year 03xx contract. Clearly this means infantry platoons are filled with dumb rock eaters. Though I prefer crayons.
Be careful, the marines don't like it when you steal from their stash.
Good thing I was in the Marines then lol.
I thought you were in some other branch, my mistake. Mixed you up with someone else.
Surprise surprise, you actually have to have some common sense to fight a war.
>They wouldn’t just grab random people to do infantry because they don’t want idiots in combat. 2003-2006 CENTCOM would beg to differ
That's why I made the post to provide a little reality check.
Also all the people in technical jobs. Someone still has to fix the comms, equipment, and feed people. What the U.S. military succeeds at and what makes us so good is our logistics. We are able to provide beans, bullets, and band-aids anywhere the infantry are.
Wars now a days are won with logistics, not bullets
My kid was in IT. He barely made it into the service (vision problems; he was given a waiver...but he did well on the ASVAB and had some college courses in computing) and no way were they going to allow him anywhere near the front; he was in Air Force and wasn't allowed to be airborne. He spent 6 years doing whatever it was he did with IT and now has a contractor job doing the same thing for 4x the money.
agree with you partly, but as a borderline GenX/Millennial OIF vet who stumbled here from the front page; >“it doesn’t matter what job you do, you’ll get pulled to the front and die” like, hell nah. They don’t want your slow ass at the front. They want trained fighters on the front. If it’s really THAT bad they would 100% draft new people and train them in a combat MOS rather than pullin the paperwork boy who only shoots once a year out to the trenches I remember the early days of Iraq, like '03-'05 when things were such a clusterfuck that intel guys were pulling convoy security, or they were pulling whatever warm bodies they could from cooks to mechanics into urban combat ops. Thats why the Army created the CAB; so non-infantry could be recognized for combat operations, since they weren't eligible for the CIB. Now, by mid-'06 they mostly had all this straightened out; and hopefully there were some good lessons learned and mistakes that won't be repeated; but there are inherent risk with any MOS in a combat zone, especially in asymmetric warfare.
People glorifying war is immensely cringe, people victimizing themselves because of a policy that hasn’t happened in 50 years is equally as cringe
What's funny is, if you read the actual selective service act you see just how outdated and contradictory it is. Which just further my belief that we won't see it in action any time soon.
USMC combat vet here. Don't join the USMC during peacetime. All your sacrifices will mean nothing. Only join the USMC during war time. Join the other branches all the time. The benefits are nice, the pay is nice,
USMC peacetime infantry "vet" here. Listen to this guy. ^
Accurate, I start punching the air every time I see an Air Force "dorm" tour (the dont even call it barracks).
lmao my wife's air force dorm is exclusively referred to as a "manor"
Too late 💀
Army better anyway 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅
I’m about to graduate and I’m probably joining the Army, maybe Navy
You should go navy or Air Force. Army was… ehhh imo.
Pro tip: you can't get drafted if you already joined 😎
Big brain move
I think the reason the military is having trouble filling its recruiting quotas is because the millennial parents of Gen Z kids have told them not to do it. We all know not to trust the government, as far as the military is concerned. I hope, anyway.
That, and the last 20 years of war, was a pretty demoralizing conflict. It wasn't a "justified" or "heroes" war and a lot of vets coming back were honest about how messed up it was, and the journalism was more revealing as well.
Yep. We're finding out more and more about how the government does these coups around the world just to destabilize a region. Sell more missiles and cluster bombs. Spend a few us troop lives.
Tbh i would have like to join the military issue is I don’t see the point in the wars we fight we go and just leave We don’t help the country become a democracy that values freedom We go destroy and dip Like im not dying in a pointless war
Rule of thumb: war is a VERY small part of the job. Most of it (when it isn't menial office labor) is actually humanitarian work and peacekeeping in countries who ask you to go there. See Korea, Japan, and literally everything the US Military does in Africa. Who was it that was on the front giving out aid in the earthquakes in Turkey? The US military. See why countries ask for the Army Corps of Engineers to build bridges and roads for them. Most soldiers do not go to Iraq or Syria. Most are in countries that want you there because it makes them safer.
This isn’t exactly accurate. Iraq is 100% more of a democracy now then it was under saddam. Afghanistan was being turned into a democracy but it was corrupt and couldn’t survive w out US intervention so we left. I still think the wars weren’t worth it but what you’re complaining about never happened. We didn’t stay there for decades dropping bombs all day
Exactly. It's just so frustrating to see how uneducated Gen Z is on the wars they're complaining about.
Join in a non deployable job, like an accountant or something. No rent, no bills, 3 meals a day.
You are probably better off financially being an accountant somewhere with low cost of living, like working for Eli Lilly in Indianapolis or something.
I was not equipped to enter the real world, being in the military is like training wheels in a lot of ways, it's building me up for when I reenter the regular world, I'd highly recommend it
Pointless war is the point, imo. "They" are keeping their friends rich with endless wars. They are not to be trusted with our lives or our kids.
History shows US corporations have supplied *both* sides of WWI and WWII
I think it's mostly gen x who are parents to gen z.
It's not only medical checks, 56% of adults aged 18-25 are obese. Statistically speaking, over 50% of these comments complaining about a draft are far too fat to serve anyway. Edit: In response to your last point about draftees not being good: Look no further than looking up what happened during The Falkland War, and the Iran-Iraq War in the 80's. The Argentines, Iraqis and Iranians all used conscripted soldiers and it was a clusterfuck each time. Granted they still used professional soldiers as well, but those are the most modern examples I can think of. Aside from Russia right now.
>56% of adults aged 18-25 are obese. Amazing that this blatantly false claim got so many upvotes. Don't make stuff up. Check your facts. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm Nowhere near that many young people are obese.
The link you gave doesn’t deny his claim at all. jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786516](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786516) This one shows that obesity trends have greatly increased to 32% for from 2017-2018. And that was almost 8 years ago. It’s probably way worse now and obesity doesn’t even include people at the upper echelons of overweight who still wouldn’t even pass military physical test
If the situation came up where the draft was needed, the government would put you on a forced diet and keep you on boot camp until you are fit enough. They already do that now for people who are too fat to join.
I mean, people would just riot and get arrested. Also, many people have other health issues too besides being obese that this wouldn't fix.
brosef idk where ur getting ur statistics but obesity isn't that prevalent among young adults
I just retired from the Army after doing 30 years. Among many roles I worked heavily in military accessions. There is no draft planned. And it is true that most men who are draft age are either too fat or too mentally ill by current standards. But if there **was** a draft, the military would loosen and waive many standards. The military would do a couple of things: 1. Create a massive fat camp system all around the country. They already started this at FT Jackson about 2 years ago for volunteers. It would just go nationwide at multiple garrisons in every state. 2. Expand the “McNamara’s Morons” style academic program at FT Jackson to go nationwide. This will get “borderline intelligent” draftees over the ASVAB to qualify for military service. 3. Most of the “soft” mood disorder BH stuff would get immediately waived. History of anxiety, depression, ADHD et cetera. 4. Overall loosening and waiving of a lot of conditions that are demonstrably stable. Trust me, the Army will find a way to bring you in if there was a national emergency.
You put into words exactly what I was thinking. If there’s a draft, literally look at our history of drafting. So many things get waived. You’ll see “military articles” about how most Americans aren’t fit to serve, but in the case of a draft, a ton of it goes out the window. Good on you for spitting only facts dude.
I thought this was about to be some military impersonation bs or people thinking they’re hot shit just because they have a military ID cause someone in their family is/was active duty. Instead I learned something new, thanks OP 👍
Nah there's whole subs already dedicated too that.
> stop talking about the military! Only mentions the draft
My bad, ment to put draft after military. Thanks for the correction.
I think the message is still true. If you don't know shit about how militaries work don't talk about it like you're an expert.
the same rumors were going around after 9/11 / during Iraq. we didn’t do conscription during that protracted shitshow. what would need to happen to get us to reinstate conscription is a terrifying thought but extremely unlikely.
I turned 18 a month before 9/11. I was convinced I was gonna get drafted. It never happened.
In the modern era, if we get to a point to where we need a draft, it’ll be because we NEED a draft. Like something so fucked up is happening that our livelihood and security is legitimately at risk. In that case I’d think 99% of Americans would be very on board
Agreed. A lot of people think of draft and think of how it worked back in the Vietnam war, but America's attitude has changed dramatically since then. There were such massive, widespread protests to it back then, and traumatizing an entire generation created such a shockwave through American culture. And unlike many of America's past atrocities, the vast majority of the population in the present day and age can acknowledge how horrible it was. I genuinely think we learned our lesson on that one. I have a hard time believing our government could justify/get away with bringing back the draft unless there was active conflict on US soil. And honestly, that's how I think it should be. If our country is *directly* under attack, we kind of have an obligation to protect our communities. It's a shitty situation for sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.
Military here Draft won’t ever happen unless it’s WWII scale or larger. In such a case, it is fair to assume there would be a general popular will for war - like there was in the world wars. US operations rely heavily on precision and advanced equipment, unlike others such as Russia who just drown their enemies in blood. If a draft came however, I’m sure many of the medical requirements would be waived. A very large amount of medical disqualification happens because the militaries standards are mental health a straight out of 1990 and there isn’t much will or impetus to update it in a quick fashion. If such a large war broke out that a draft was required many of the sum arbitrary and capricious requirements would probably be waived. It’s just that now, even with the recruiting shortage, the US can afford to be choosy.
That's true. There are some paperwork waivers for ADHD, mild autism, etc. And many things are case by case basis. I'm a USMC Reserves Corporal. I see enough of the "im not gonna go fight and die for someone else's pocket-filling" rhetoric on the internet, and while it's true, it's very redundant. Some people have few to no other choices in life, while some are looking for experience. And there are many people who join who don't see combat or even a deployment out of the US. Just stay humble and use your best judgment. I may not agree with everything in the military but for most things I deal with it
Exactly. I just needed out of the situation I was in so I made a mutual trade. Marines give me stability and I give them a recruit
And people often forget that the “pocket filling” is for their own lifestyle as well. Imagine if we were cut off from global oil markets, or if trade via sea were disrupted indefinitely, or we couldn’t get chips from Taiwan. Honestly, Gen Z should want to fight for Taiwan because it’s where all of our more advanced gadgets come from (at least in part).
Best take on how to operate in the military. Thanks for being a good dude.
If there was a need for a draft and only 23% of people 18/24 qualified, they’d just change the qualifications to broaden the population.
>Stop talking about the military id you don't know anything I could say the exact same given what you wrote. Draft: first place they will draft is prisons that house veterans. After that, the rest of the prison population. Then if they still need bodies, they will give 0 fucks about whether or not people are qualified mentally or physically. For Vietnam they allowed non-fit people to volunteer. They had to attend a specific course prior to help them be physically fit. >War, Politics, and War Crimes: Also if any president actually enacted the military draft in this modern day and age it would be end end of their political career. Fun fact, the president DOES NOT have the authority to initiate a draft. It requires a literal 2/3 vote in both the house and Senate for a draft to be initiated. The president would have no say in the matter. >Also the military institution/generals hates the idea of a draft; due to the fact, no suprise that draftees aren't any good Some of the best soldiers in both WW2 and Vietnam were draftees. Idk who told you that generals hate draftees, they aren't ideal but there are gems sometimes. There are plenty of garbage people in the military now that are beyond below optimal. >Lastly some of you all think that if gen z goes to war there will be alot war crimes, the military literally has systems in place to prevent such Hahahahahaha, oh wait you are serious? Hundreds of war crimes happened in Iraq and Afghanistan - source: person that likely out ranks OP
There will always be way crimes, regardless of generation or rules/legislation. Had no one read a history book?
I'd just like to say I'm not denying or justifying war crimes. Nothing in my post insinuates that, I deadass said "the military has systems in place to prevent that" Do war crimes happen, yes. Should they be punished yes. What's crazy is you all really putting words in my mouth and making assumptions, really out here showing why people can't talk and have discussions nowadays.
Reading that post and comments was so corny. Bunch of men and women who know nothing ranting about the military 🤣
My bipolar disorder, heart condition, and leg deformity showing up to save my ass from the draft: https://preview.redd.it/mdv5h5svlixc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d868fd0236078d98d33f1d151c115cae23189d81
https://preview.redd.it/kctvi0tvbjxc1.jpeg?width=238&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8348e17eb136ab267052eb93152034a8bcc78fb6
>Lastly some of you all think that if gen z goes to war there will be alot war crimes, the military literally has systems in place to prevent such Yeah that's the part I don't agree with at all. You're naive af if you think that. The US millitary has committed massive amounts of war crimes in literally every conflict they've ever been involved in. Why do you think it would be different this time? Those "systems in place" are just for PR. Like, you need to literally have ignored everything the US military has ever done to think those systems work.
Imagine not thinking serving your country is a good thing
Depends on your country
Depends on your reasoning, how you served in my opinion.
As active duty, it’s really really annoying. 95% of people running their mouth have absolutely 0 clue what they are saying. I’ve seen shit, I’ve done shit. Some good, some bad. I’m also still totally fucking sane and a loving father and husband. I’m a normal fucking dude
One thing that pisses me off is when people bash us for joining and claim that we are supporting wars. That we should simply refuse to fight. I would say the majority of us joined because we needed a way out of our current situations.
Free College and a steady paycheck is worth ALOT these days
I find it hilarious you guys are worried about a draft yet at the same time are pushing for more war funds to Ukraine.
Draftees historically have not been necessarily worse than enlisted, especially considering they are often more educated/affluent and therefore you don't get the same distribution as some people who joined out of desperation for money. But I agree that the situation would probably have to get very fucked for them to institute a draft again.
I have an active genetic illness that requires constant bloodwork. Somehow with changing how I eat they haven’t nagged me about not getting my levels checked. Assholes should have made it standing monthly orders and not what they’re currently doing. I have hereditary hemochromatosis it basically means my body wants to fuck around and find out how strong the magnets are in an mri Either way the constant bloodwork and the military diet would not be good for my levels. Their diet would have me needing treatment every month, and the only reason why I’m eligible to donate blood is because of the disorder because I pass out almost every single time (or that they really loosen the requirements for O- donors)
>Also hate to break it to you but 77% of americans between age 18-24 are unqualified to serve, and it’s literally not that hard to get disqualified from service. Military recruiters are large impart struggling cus of the new medical checks that are disqualifying potential recruits left and right. Seconding this. I know a guy who wanted so badly to serve in the military but got denied for a freaking shellfish allergy.
Yeah, I'm going to be honest, as much as I despise the military system and the predatory tactics they use to get people, and overall ethics of it, I don't see a draft happening anywhere in the near or distant future. Many people wouldn't qualify like you said, even if they included women in the draft. Also, it is a stupid decision knowing what happened, there's a reason I have an uncle in Canada
Most people here probably couldn't pass the asvab. Or at least that's the statistic I was told when they hired me.
But I got downvoted by r/Genz users for saying while the military has bad history, having a absurd ideology that says “military bad, death to America, anyone who disagree go to gulag” was a iddy bitty extremist. Surely r/Genz is the true arbitrate of geopolitics and military politics.
The older you get the more you realise most people are uneducated to argue about what they’re spewing. If you’re into fitness seriously you’ll hear just about the dumbest things from non gym goers and beginners that refuse to learn. The same is said for anything that requires people to actively be in it and constantly learn from which is why a lot of posts about the military or anything political are usually just that, air. Just ignorance in an echo chamber.
Yeah it’s definitely easy to be unfit to serve. I’m a perfectly fit 19 year old with no issues at all, and was disqualified because I had a surgery whenever I was younger to remove excess tendons that we’re giving me issues. I literally have no left over side effects from that though and was 100% in. Still disqualified and was told there was no waver for that kind of thing. So yeah it’s really easy to be disqualified.
To add onto this Most people don’t know anything about what the US military does, it’s purpose, and everything that it entails. There’s plenty of people that outrank me that don’t know what the hell is going on beyond Fox News. I wish people would only say stuff when they see blatant criminal behavior. I can guarantee that anyone who says we overspend on our military has no clue why it all hashes out the way it does.
I just wanted to go to college man, not get lectured by my peers on US Imperialism and war crimes. I'm sorry I was poor as shit and saw an opportunity to turn it around lol. I turn wrenches on jets all day, it's not like I'm out here eating babies or something. Yet.
We’re all mentally ill. Ain’t no way 1/2 of y’all going anywhere
I find it interesting that if you think the war situation is drastic enough for a draft, military requirements wouldn't drop. This is pretty standard knowledge that they would lower the standards
They're falling for libertarian/communist propaganda about WWIII being imminent
>Also hate to break it to you but 77% of americans between age 18-24 are unqualified to serve, and its literally not that hard to get disqualified from service. Oh don't worry, a good long world war will edge those qualifications to be looser and looser. By the end WWII the Germans were putting children, old men, and just about anyone with a pulse into military service. ...Pretty sure they Weekend At Bernie's a few guys even, just corpses on machine guns, propped up with sticks.
Thank you for your service
OP: I'm way too fat and uneducated to get drafted if we're facing an existential threat! US military: You're perfect for the front lines!
Oh stop for shits sake. Nobody is getting drafted in the US. Honestly if the US went to war currently, for real, full on assault, it would be first global connection. Kill the satellite global connection. That would wipe out entire cultures worldwide. It would create internal war within any society. Future is no longer war and nukes. Shut down Americas connectivity? Worse than nukes. Any society would collapse.
I’m a military historian, I come from a long line of military officers from the USCG, USAF, and USMC. Anyway, I’m fairly confident that if the need were truly great enough, we could initiate a draft and get the soldiers we needed into shape. Getting people in shape is not rocket science and our military academies know how to do it. Most likely, we would send out-of-shape citizens to a conditioning camp and get their physicality up to boot camp conditions, then ship them off for formal military training. Also, the age old trick for a super power like the US is to simply conscript foreign legions into the military. It has worked several times in the past, but it has to go hand-in-hand with strong diplomacy. For example, Napoleon was exceptional at recruiting like-minded foreigners to fight under his banner under the pretense that supreme victory would allow them to overthrow their monarch and establish a sovereign republic. The Romans often used Roman citizenship as a way to incentivize would-be enemies to instead fight for them. We certainly know that many non-Americans want US citizenship, much in the same way that 19th century European migrants did when they volunteered to fight in the Civil War and the Mexican-American War. It would be a fast way for people to prove their loyalty to the US and separate those who truly want to be an American from the migrants who just want to milk America without contributing to America.
Medical and potentially even age requirements would be waived if the situation was dire enough. But yes, there's no realistic scenario where that happens. The US would have to completely bungle an invasion past any reasonable possibility that you might as well throw the threat of alien invasion in.
Not even gonna read this post, the title is enough. Facts.
You aren’t gonna get drafted the army doesn’t want a bunch of Redditors anyway besides you still have to get through active and reserves before a draft
Exactly and the chances of them being qualified are pretty low now that we started using Genesis Heart murmur age 2? Needs a waiver Self harm- completely no Mental health- No
400 pounds is a negatory I barely got in with just adhd
Marine here- fully agree with you it’s annoying especially since it is so obvious they did not research any bit of it or they would know better
Only 1% of Americans are in the military and a smaller amount of that are Gen Z, so yeah it’s no surprise that most people don’t know much about the military at all. Source: am military
4 years active Marines, 6 years Army National Guard, and current Navy officer. It’s comical reading this sub from time to time when kids talk about the military and policy.
But there was a draft for the Vietnam war when American territory wasn’t in any danger of invasion. If the draft would not be realistically reinstated, if calling for a draft would be political suicide, then why are all of the attempts to disband men needing to register for selective services rejected? Why are American men still to this day punished if they don’t register for selective service?
I agree. If a draft ever happens, it will be one of the worst war situations AND it would lead towards women fighting/being drafted as well. (It's basically the last step in the emancipation of the woman, and it's not entirely unthinkable that it would happen if it were a Western country that was invaded/attacked.)
Fact. If your IQ is low enough they will not draft you. So safe to say, Gen Z is safe.
This is pretty common with this generation. Building a strong biased view of something without a lick of research or nuance of any kind. Using only heresay and social media posts to base their views and then post them on here like gospel. Its really unfortunate because the military can be an extremely useful and helpful tool for young people to jumpstart a career and develop their skills for as little as a 4/6 year contract. Not to mention health benefits, college benefits, and VA benefits after their service. Not everyone is a combat soldier, not everyone sees war, not everyone develops PTSD or is in a situation to do so. ALOT of jobs are pretty much civilian jobs but in uniform. Civil Engineering, Veterinarian, Vehicle Maintenance, Air Traffic Control, Human Resources, etc. Learn about what you are talking about before talking about it.
Yea anytime I see redditors post about the military I roll my eyes. I never served but considered many times and simple google searches would make them realize the shit they’re saying is extremely regarded.
Some of the Marines I served with who *volunteered* were malcontent useless miserable fucks. Working with draftees would be actual torture.
Having been in for 11 years this Aug and seeing just the general population. I genuinely do not want any of you to join…
If you live in Western Europe, Canada or the United States who have a near 0 cause for concern. Our enemies are far weaker and busy fighting their own wars.
Apparently you don’t understand how drafts work during “total war”. If your people’s existence is at stake you better believe your ass is going to a military branch lol there are different classifications to “not qualified”. If you can’t qualify to be a gunfighter or something in combat arms that doesn’t mean you won’t sit behind a desk pushing papers, issuing uniforms, cleaning gear, driving truck, etc. and if you are that messed up as a human being you’ll be supporting the war effort somehow and or be affected by it. War with Russia and the east isn’t like what we’ve read in the books and seen on the movies/history documentaries. It would be total all out global nuclear and conventional warfare like we have never seen on planet earth. Let’s hope it never happens. 🤷🏻♂️
As a millenial year who experienced 9/11 at 17..there is never going to be a draft.
We didn’t need a draft. Plenty were more than willing to fulfill bodies necessary to invade.