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Exactly. European liberals basically steam rolled conservatives and went almost all in on their policies. Only Poland and recently France seem interested in going against that grain.
The right wing government we have in Sweden has been one of the best in a long time. Considering the last two have been awful with their "open your hearts" politics.
What? It really hasn't. They even want to instate unwarranted person searches etc, and allowing police to just look at everyone's internet traffic.
It's totally unhinged.
No, they're trying to conserve national socialism. It's a rebranded nazi party. They have incidents of stuff like nazi salutes and nazi statements regularly, like at least monthly somebody has to leave the party because they expressed themselves too authentically to people outside their nazi circles.
Except for the fact that they don't keep their promises, use taxpayers money to fund a party propaganda machine and the healthcare system is on the verge of collapsing
It's ironic, but the US right-wing would likely be in a much healthier (read; less fashy, less extreme) if the US hadn't stamped out its own left-wing during the cold war.
It's because the US politicals is so warped by Christian conservative thinking that any political streaming that promotes secularity and social freedom has been demonized as "socialism", regardless of what it actually is.
You need to discern economic liberals (usually right wing) and moral/societal liberals (usually left wing). You can have both (I call them centre liberals), or neither (totalitarian).
The whole of europe is leaning right these days. The examples you mentioned France is correct, Polands been surging ahead showing an example of what right leaning government can achieve in europe for over a decade.
Your swimming in a deep and barren sea brother , in a 2013 study 2014 of Swedish citizens ( note that Sweden is the most liberal country on the continent), 40% answered in a survey that they thought by that it should be illegal for gay couples to adopt children.
Yeah a lot of these comments stink of “dummy who thinks Europe is all one big progressive paradise where even the right wing is on the left and chocolate is good for you”
Much of Europe is like Boston, economically liberal or even left leaning, but not nearly as socially liberal.
It's important to separate these two when talking about other countries' political landscapes.
"A Conservative is one who wants to conserve his money, a National Socialist is one who wants to conserve his race" (George Lincoln Rockwell)
I think we dont realize how much conservatives have reached, they wanted to conserve their money, they conserved their money, I would call this an absolute win for conservatives.
George clearly confused a kapitalist with a conservative. You can look at conservative parties across Europe many of them labelling themselves that and look at recent EU elections which define as conservative and surprise surprise aren’t majorly involved with wealth in comparison to the ruling parties.
Indeed, conservatism is a social policy definition, not economic. At its core, it is about retaining the values and beliefs that have been held time and time before, making changes legislative only after society itself has changed. It sees law not as a means to incite change but rather to prevent out groups from being able to disrupt or disagree with the status quo. In it’s own irony, it sacrifices individuality for solidarity, and creativity for unity; both fundamental concepts of freedom.
Never contribute solely to money what can also be contributed to genuine societal influence though. Conservatives genuinely do believe in their backwards worldview, and would force on all of us an unjust, bullshit hierarchy the moment they have power.
For the most part modern day consevatives want to conserve the freedoms that we have, as in freedom of speech, religion and so on. At least the voters.
You'll hear people get angry when someone dares to come close to that.
Politicians thou, they do what ever they get paid yo do by who ever is paying them at the moment. Same thing with any other politicians.
So as we've seen, doesn't really matter who's in power, same shit keeps on going.
Also, while immigration is generally a good thing, opening the floodgates is not. A lot of Europeans from what I can tell, sort of feel like 2nd class citizens in their native countries.
European nationalism is very different from the American understanding of nationalism and even then that varies by country - Irish nationalism for example is inherently left-wing and rooted in communist and socialist ideology, likewise being conservative in Europe is nothing akin to what Americans regard as conservative, be very mindful when trying to draw these parallels because they’re covering completely alien concepts to the average American
Reminds me of Canadian nationalism, which is also firmly left-wing/socialist-leaning.
USA has such a dominating culture in the western world, that Canadians (being closest in proximity) get worried about their culture/values being taken over by Americanisms. So Canada’s nationalist identity ends up being boiled down to "We are *not* America", and the left-wingers are more interested in conserving Canada's culture than the right-wingers are.
Yeah I know.
In Australia, half the reason they're bringing in so many migrants is to artificially inflate the demand of housing (while intentionally doing nothing to alleviate it).
All the influential politicians own dozens of properties, so they're just lining up their pockets while us commoners suffer.
Definitely more towards inflating their assets and profiteering from cheap labor than the other reasons. Naturalization is actually pretty damn hard minimum \~15 years of residence from visa, green card, to citizenship. You might not know this but immigrants esp from Asian countries that come to the US aus etc tend to be wealthier off individuals w very conservative values (anglophiles if u will). Them voting for more liberal and pro immigration candidate is really not a guarantee at all. There's a running joke that ppl immediately flip sides to conservatives when they get their green card/citizenship, and there's a reason why.
The nationalists in my country (canada) could certainly be considered economically left by American standards, but they're definitely not holistically left-wing (anti immigrant and traditionalist usually.)
In fact, in many liberal circles, we joke that anyone who proudly presents the Canadian flag on their cars and such are probably backwards people.
Everything but the immigrant-left thing is true; flying a Canadian flag off your car means something different these last few years, especially since the convoy
Actually Irish nationalism being different from our modern concept of nationalism is more a result of ‘nationalism’ in that context meaning Ireland’s right to sovereignty, whereas with most countries like Russia or Serbia it would mean national superiority since those countries haven’t had a struggle for independence for a while, so it’s not so much a European thing as it is a contextual thing.
I'm a Welsh "nationalist", not because I'm anti-immigration and racist, but because I believe England, and by extension Great Britain has a very lengthy history of oppressing Wales and shows no progress in treating us as equals, so I believe that independence is the route to go.
Same goes for European right-wing in general. They aren’t conservative in the way Americans are conservative. The right wing in europe is more of a racist bent and not so much about economy. I mean of the far right parties in Denmark - Dansk Folkeparti - has a socialistic economic model (compared to the US), but a very ultranationalist and christian conservative mindset about the global world. Then we have another one popular among gen z called Liberal Alliance, which is liberal in both values and economic outlook and not in the slightest conservative. They are still right-wing though.
Sadly as Trumpism has taken over the Republican party, it has gotten more anti-immigrant. But I'd say overall what you say is true. America is a country of immigrants (voluntary and otherwise!), and so generally speaking we aren't as caught up in ethnic identity as European countries.
Idk man I saw a bunch of Fascist bishops, political pundits, flagrantly pushing the Nazi talking points in Spain and Italy recently.
Idk how exactly that's different from American conservatives at this point.
Makes sense since Spain and Italy are both countries with a lengthy history of successful fascist military-governance in action; one was an Axis member allied with Nazi Germany during WW2 while the other was ‘neutral’ but still supported the Axis powers behind the scenes, yet at the same time the UK existed as a fully conservative state
This is exactly the difference, though. European nationalism is far more ethnic in character than in the U.S., where it’s hard to reconcile ethnic nationalism with the country’s identity as a nation of migrants.
That's the other side of the coin.
Racism is also distinctly different in Europe, as in the boundaries are not drawn along "race" primarily. It's also defined by ethnicity and primarily national identity.
Somewhat bizarre example: group of white guys with their black friend on the train, shit talking lazy immigrants from the neighbour country who steal their jobs.
This. In Czechia our communist party is incredibly nationalistic and anti-LGBT and pro-Russia.
Even our "far-right" party (led by half Japanese dude of all people) isn't that much "right" in actual policy.
In Slovakia their anti-progressive parties are left wing too.
That's because Irish nationalism is a national liberation movement against British colonialism. National liberation movements have always been left wing, just as black nationalism in the US has been left wing or how basque nationalism, catalan nationalism etc. Are left wing. Nationalism of the oppressed vs. Nationalism of the oppressor. Now, the actual nationalism of fully independent nation states instead of minority groups or countries that are resisting economic imperialism or neo-colonialism from other countries is inherently right-wing. This goes for Europe as well. Actually especially for Europe and the US.
You’re right this is alien. Where do you live? I need to come out to Europe, shit sounds lit af. I’ve been stuck in the US for to long playboy. Are you in Poland by any chance?
Lmfao it’s sort of wild that Muslim and Jewish peoples are going back and forth on antisemitism and Islamophobia and this dude is just like, “But what about *both* of them?!”
Because that's how anti-semitism works. You take whatever social problem you don't like, find some jews involved, and blame the jews for it. It's always worked this way.
European conservatism is dead. It started in the 80s and it’s died in the 2020s. Populism has taken over. It’s entirely true.
Our politics has become massively Americanised.
Looking at European history, do you honestly believe populism and ethnic nationalism are American imports?
Seriously, I know criticizing the U.S. and blaming all your problems on its influence is a pastime of some Europeans, but this particular take is plainly wrong.
Well it’s not really just that.
The whole culture war is entirely an American import into our politics not seen since after the Second World War. It is simple a statement of fact to say it has started in the US as American focus groups have been funding focus groups throughout Europe on issues that didn’t exist 10 years ago here. Ethnic nationalism only scratches the surface of the new wave of populism.
Seriously, are these Europeans really pretending that populism and ethnic nationalism are American imports? Take some fucking responsibility for your own countries. This one ain't on America. Heck, ethnic nationalism is way worse in Europe than the US.
First exposure to a demagogic political leader for many was Trump. So yes they see it as an 'Merica thing and not what actually causes demagogues to be able to rise to power in the first place. Black and white issues are what human brains crave, not shades of grey.
Did Berlusconi really go unnoticed? I would say we Italians have the unglorious achievement of getting the first massively successful populist politician of the current century, and even then he caused a ripple effect in Italian politics, with populism being the core tenet of Beppe Grillo's M5S, and then Salvini's Lega after he took over. All of them having, as a common factor, no defined ideology (Berlusconi did like to dunk on communists and the Lega started as a separatist movement, however), and making unrealistic promises that sounded miraculous to the electorate and had the effect of pushing them to power. I am not glad in the slightest that we have this massive bog of a political class now, but I don't think it's in historical accuracy's best interests to forget that populism probably had its start here.
In other news, I don't think it hurts to remember that Berlusconi was a great friend of Putin's, Salvini received funding from Putin's party and wore a pro-Putin t-shirt that got him dunked on by a Polish politician when he visited Poland, and the M5S are very vocal about Ukraine surrendering while also having a rather sketchy story of Russian soldiers officially providing Covid aid were almost allowed to access sensitive information while they were in power.
I agree but I've noticed that who's kinda younger than me (2007-2009) are generally more right wing leaning and I've also heard a lot of people noticing this
Honestly same with liberals. Lots of communists are opposed to opening borders. Lots of communists very much so value nationalism as without nationalism it’s easy for a communist state to crumble. Lots of conservatives really benefit from immigration with paying lower wages less workers rights etc. I think immigration has its pros and cons but just because standard American communists believe in open borders doesn’t mean that’s a core belief.
I feel like the age of 2007-2009 (17-15) are a bit undeveloped in political thought due to lack of any real world experience and will eventually normalize.
I don’t believe these people prefer every policy of the right wing, but the European left has refused to face the issue of immigration and that’s pushed people to single policy vote for parties that will.
Yeah that is completely true, and it can create a dangerous atmosphere at times, where the political definitions of these parties become twisted in some way when in reality the issue of immigration should be a simple matter of agreeing upon no matter your political alignment and even immigrants who have settled in Europe and contribute to society and assimilated into the culture will even tell you that.
Teens being extremists is nothing new, Communists, Nazis, Monarchists and so on are vastly over represented among those who can't even vote yet, it's been the case back in my day as well. I think it's due to people just hating the establishment and everything associated with it at that age, it's the age range where one thinks everyone else has it all wrong.
It's nothing new for (mainly male) teenagers to develop their countries' brand of right leaning tendency before many are exposed to a broader spectrum of ideas through higher education.
Yes and no there is a rise in nationalism in Europe however it makes sense I’m currently a American living In Germany and have been here since before the afghan pull out and when that happened Arabs FLOODED this place and most of Europe and are now trying to instill their own values and force their ideology on the culture. Rape rates rose as well as violent crime in general. As Americans we don’t feel like we get to say “you don’t belong here” because we are a nation of immigrants. But imagine how you’d feel if your actual ancestral home was somewhat under siege by another culture who quite literally and frankly hates you and what you stand for.
I cant believe this comment is gaining a relatively high amount of upvotes? I appeal to everybody to use a little bit of critical thinking - do you think somebody saying German "ancestral lands" are "under siege" by "arabs flooding the country" is an actor you should believe?
Then again, this comment is a perfect example of what European right-wingers/conservatives/nationalists act like right now. Populism above everything. :D
Germany has around half a million refugees in the country. As of 2021, Germany had around 1.5 million people from Arab countries - which encompasses *22 countries*. There is no flooding happening, Germany has also ALWAYS BEEN A DIVERSE/IMMIGRANT NATION. Germany, for most of its history, was never one country, it was many different kingdoms with many different subjects. Even when Germany came closer to being a country, the subjects were incredibly mixed (aside from local German populations with their own cultures, there were many Jews, minority groups from neighboring countries, and inhabitants from neighboring countries). Post-WW2, Germany became a nation for immigrants in search for work too. Germany is an immigrant nation and always has been.
You act as if every immigrant or a group of muslim immigrants in of themselves is trying to instill foreign values into the country they now live in. Why? Why do you say that? Do you say that based on one protest in Hamburg that was heavily reprimanded and condemned by Muslims and non-Muslims alike? Do you say that based on the individuals that have committed terrorist acts in the name of Islam? I hope you say the same about right-wingers then, because there have been several instances of VERY deadly terrorist attacks against minorities in the past couple of years.
There's the attack in Hanau, when a man went to hotspots for immigrants and shot a bunch of them while the police displayed an amazing amount of failure. There's the terrorist that shot Walter Lübcke in his own garden for saying immigrants are welcome in Germany and Islam is a part of it. There's the man that shot up a community of Jehovah's witnesses after the police failed to identify or stop him countless times. There's the guy that tried to break into a synagogue in Halle, couldnt, and then went into a Turkish restaurant to shoot people. Or, if you wanna go further back in time, the ORGANIZED MURDERS of innocent Turkish men by the NSU that were presented as "Döner murders" by German media outlets.
The issue isnt right-wing opinions, and the issue isnt Islam. The issue are religious extremists, unchecked extremists and populists like you.
Non-white people existing is all over Europe?
If the response of Europeans to seeing a brown person working at their local pastry shop is to vote for Nazis, maybe euros are just shit people after all?
The hell in Germany do you live that you say they "flooded" the place after the Afghanistan pull out. I'm German and haven't seen a major difference at all since then. The majority of Muslims I talk to are decent human beings, haven't ever felt "under siege". Such bullshit.
How does US rightwing/Classical Liberal conservative politics differ from German/European politics “conservatives”. I’m trying to understand as a US citizen because so many parallels are drawn but I don’t think they are comparable? I’ve been asking but I cannot actually get a straight answer beyond, one is right wing and the other is further right wing.
Like US conservatives seem to be very anti central gov and more about letting states do their own thing. And parties act differently it seems at the state vs federal level.
They are not comparable.
Broadly:
European conservatives care much less about free unregulated markets / small government.
Most have some form of social market policy with regulations, some social safety, etc.
That also goes for social and environmental issues.
Ideologically, most European conservatives are also not classical liberals, and put much less importance on individual liberty and freedom.
In place of that, you basically get a degree of nationalism, emphasis of cultural identity, etc. So less globalism, more orientation towards the good old times, more "looking after your own people" (and only them!).
Pushed to the extreme:
In the US: you get slave owners or raging capitalists / libertarians (in the American sense), who want to do whatever they want. Or more Modern: the John Birch Society.
In Europe: you get authoritarian nationalism (facism).
If anybody's wondering what the John Birch society was, it was invented by a man who was concerned Eisenhower and Nixon were communist sympathisers, it would be hilarious if they weren't so well funded.
They we're prominent enough in the 20th century that both Bob Dylan ("Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues") and Pete Seeger ("The Jack Ash Society") released songs criticizing them.
AfD (Germany's right wing party) is more right-wing than the Republicans/GOP. AfD wants a net zero number of immigrants each year while Trump supports giving green cards to college graduates. Also AfD is a lot more friendly to Russia and China.
We have similar things going on here, but it's more to do with Mexico kind of. Also, guess which states are on the border and have some of the most laxed gun laws? Texas.
I think though generally as a white American who’s traveled over a lot of Latin America. Latinos are a lot more similar to Americans than Arab people are to Europe. And before you come at me think religiously, think of how women are usually treated, marriages. It’s a bit easier to fit into American culture.
So we're going straight to the most radical centrist horseshoe theory without even contributing any context of our own? Give me a break.
There are plenty of valid criticisms of left-wing ideology and, more specifically, people who call themselves leftists. Plenty to do with implementation, accelerationism and the question of after the revolution, among other details you can better distinguish by actually having real human conversations. But it is NOT the same as what about right-wing ideology and its adherents deserves criticism.
Even if you are equating the impact of far left and far right misdeeds (an irrationally moderate take), the actual motivations and means of attainment are very distinct. You don't have to agree with either political extreme, but maybe do some basic research instead of trying to suggest that left wingers are somehow also nazis.
If someone truly subscribes to the authoritarian right wing ideology that believes society should be based on racial hierarchies and some races are inherently superior to others, then a tiny group like jews becoming super successful in powerful institutions means they are inherently the master race. They're just smarter than everyone else and "won" the game that these far right people insist on making everyone play. Thats not ideology, thats JEALOUSY
So logically, far right people should have no problem with jews being at the top. But they hate them, why? Because white supremacy isn't about believing in a consistent ideological framework, its just a bunch of mediocre, unremarkable people in a majority group who feel invisible and boring and who's only true motive is hating on others to feel better about their basic bitch selves.
They hate "superior" races, they hate "inferior" races, they spend all their time HATING on everyone and every thing instead of spending their time developing real self esteem where you don't have to do that to feel good about yourself in the first place.
Seriously, who invents this bizarre game of racial hierarchies, insists everyone has to play, come in SECOND place, shits on everyone who came in 3rd and 4th and 5th, AND ALSO whines that they deserve first place but wah wah wah ThE JeWs cHeAteD? Bitch please. Take your silver medal and get a fuckin hobby ya clown
i’m guessing it’s this small populations goal to turn everyone trans and erase the white race too?
if you want a group to hate, hate the rich in general, detached from identities that pit you against other people who are truly no different in any meaningful way than you are
you know there’s an overwhelming amount of old white men in power in general, not just jewish ones, right?
Even when I was an anti immigrant right winger I never got onboard of the whole "the rich are jews" thing. Lizards maybe, but why jews?
Now I'm mores convinced that the only thing uniting "the rich" is that they have a lot of money, and that it is a far (faaar) bigger group than what can fit in one restaurant.
yeah, some old asshole who won the game of capitalism isnt going to be more nefarious because his ancestors were born in a specific land or other. people just like having a scapegoat to protect their hate on to
they try and use information like this as a reason for why it’s justified to mistreat people who have nothing to do with those numbers. it’s like how racists like to bring up the black crime rate and then for some dumb reason try to explain that being prone to crime is a genetic thing. there’s zero effort put into analyzing the economic and social reasons for why crime exists in over policed, impoverished zones with poor job opportunities and education system, and instead go “see? this whole civil rights thing was a bad idea”
First time dipping my toes into this subreddit. I thought maybe itd be interesting but instead I found a guy parroting nazi talking points and somebody else saying the Jews control everything. Maybe the kids arent alright
right? Why are all the nazis up? What the fuck happened to this sub? I really wish we could verify gen-z 1995-2013 Just so I can know who is an invader or whether or not my peers are becoming nazis.
I mean... Pretty much, yeah. We don't really have young "boring" conservatism, we have progressives and nationalists, and the odd radical Libertarian (Which is much more focussed on ancap than whatever American libertarians are smoking). There are some older generations which are conservative, but very rarely the youth, presumably because they're not seeing a state of life they particularly want to conserve and just disagree on how to change it.
as a russian: every young person I know is either not into politics at all, a communist, a fascist or some combination thereof
I have not seen a young liberal since navalny's wave died in \~2018 and even then it was a weird amalgamation of people from all over the spectrum supporting Navalny out of spite basically
The alt right pipeline with the "feminist gets owned compilation" Like videos on YouTube is real and i almost fell into it, many of the people that are the same age as me and started pandemic as young Teens trying to find and identity fell into that.
I can assure you almost every male between the ages of 12 and 16 has fallen into it.
There is almost no way to evade it, the algorithms push it so hard, specially around 2016.
The only thing that happens is either people are smart enough to escape it, or they stay in the hole and get worse and worse
Real ones know that conservatism is dead because it’s reactive. Can’t win if you only place defense. It would be in everyone’s best interest if liberals chilled the fuck out a bit.
Yes. Conservative parties in most European countries are only really conservative in terms of economics and either don't try/haven't done anything effective to deal with the problem of immigration. Naturally people who promise stronger action on that, regardless of their other policies, will become more popular at Conservative expense. In France for example where the right-wing RN party is looking like it will become the next government, I'm sure most of their voters are probably doing so mostly because of their immigration policies.
"**Nationalism**, [ideology](https://www.britannica.com/topic/ideology-society) based on the [premise](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/premise) that the individual’s loyalty and devotion to the [nation-state](https://www.britannica.com/topic/nation-state) surpass other individual or group interests." Doesn't sound too bad tbh.
It’s not, people just hear it and think it’s scary, it’s literally just taking care of your own. It’s like me caring the most about my actual home than other peoples homes lol
I don't doubt it... The social movement has been to put people into categories and boxes and then celebrate those differences instead of encouraging togetherness. Of course people are going to end up with all the toxic traits from that. It's a real shame
Except for Italy, which is paradoxically pro america in every shape and form, yet conservative in the most canonical sense, nationalist and right-leaning (now officially neo-fascist, grazie Giorgia).
Yes, I don’t want to bring women down to the role of a dishwasher, I just don’t want to have my throat slit or my mother raped by Pakistani or African immigrant who’s more likely to do it than native. I just want a safe country for people of my race.
Nothing will fuel nationalism or even ethnic nationalism like importing in thousands of violent barbarians who would rather set up autonomous cultural zones with your country than assimilate into your culture. The European left has no one to blame but themselves.
Kind of true for Ireland. For years we have had centrist parties ruling the roost. Left wing parties have become more prominent in recent years and are the favourite for zoomers.
As for the far right. There are a growing number of far right parties in Ireland. They're very unpopular but their popularity is growing very slowly. I wouldn't call them "conservative" "identitarian" "nationalist or anything like that, they are through and through fascist and they are dangerous. Thankfully they got beat badly in recent elections but it's very concerning that they exist.
Ireland was lucky to avoid the European far right frenzy but it is here just quiet...
For starters, I think it’s important to say this:
Fuck Keith Woods
He’s an [ethnopluralist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnopluralism) and a white nationalist who is sympathetic to, and praises the [Third Position](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position). The ideology he mentions in this tweet, [Identitarianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identitarian_movement), has behind it the most popular far-right movement in Europe at the moment, and one that has both historic and modern ties to fascist politics. He deserves no support.
Moving on, yes and no. It largely depends on which part of Europe you are in, and how easily influenced you are. It is true that most zoomers in Europe are generally center-left on a cultural and sometimes economic level, and they may occasionally go further than that and be more left-wing or even far-left.
However, some zoomers have become conservative, and hell, even extremely far-right in recent years. This is mostly due to online influence, the failures of center-right, center, center-left or left-wing parties in power, and probably the biggest culprit by far, widely exaggerated or fearmongering stories about minority groups.
Even with this slight rise in conservatism among European zoomers, most on the continent have beliefs that far outweigh those of the right.
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Is any real difference between white nationalist and conservatives? I always thought it was just a branding change to make conservatism seem cool to the youths.
Conservative means keep old politics, liberal/progressive means new politics. Left wing can be autocratic and extremist just like right wing can. Socialist politics tends to land in the middle to the left political spectrum. US/ some American politics is very right wing and our left wing parties are comparable to some conservative parties in Europe. But our right wing is very nationalist and conservative. Also very militant. Really spooky shit going on here.
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I mean it makes sense, what have European conservatives conserved exactly?
Exactly. European liberals basically steam rolled conservatives and went almost all in on their policies. Only Poland and recently France seem interested in going against that grain.
Poland voted in liberal government just a few months ago after 8 yr rule of right wingers
Yeah I keep seeing all of Europe is going right yet no one mentions this detail 😊
The right wing government we have in Sweden has been one of the best in a long time. Considering the last two have been awful with their "open your hearts" politics.
What? It really hasn't. They even want to instate unwarranted person searches etc, and allowing police to just look at everyone's internet traffic. It's totally unhinged.
That sounds like a nightmare
Jesus, are your conservatives trying to "conserve" communism? Because that's what that sounds like.
No, they're trying to conserve national socialism. It's a rebranded nazi party. They have incidents of stuff like nazi salutes and nazi statements regularly, like at least monthly somebody has to leave the party because they expressed themselves too authentically to people outside their nazi circles.
Except for the fact that they don't keep their promises, use taxpayers money to fund a party propaganda machine and the healthcare system is on the verge of collapsing
Liberals and conservatives are not opposites though? Usually conservatives are actually liberal
They dont have an actual left in the US so they dont understand that kind of subtility
As a liberal conservative from the US, you're correct
It's ironic, but the US right-wing would likely be in a much healthier (read; less fashy, less extreme) if the US hadn't stamped out its own left-wing during the cold war.
More like in America, liberal is a term referring to left wing politics, rather than classical liberalism, which u/Sirlzhak seems to be referring to.
It's because the US politicals is so warped by Christian conservative thinking that any political streaming that promotes secularity and social freedom has been demonized as "socialism", regardless of what it actually is.
You need to discern economic liberals (usually right wing) and moral/societal liberals (usually left wing). You can have both (I call them centre liberals), or neither (totalitarian).
And Italy, no?
Hungary, Lithuania, Germany, France, Italy???? Educate yourself before you go spreading misinformation smh
You mean France and Italy?
Uhmmmm France, Poland, Hungary, Italy……. Shall I continue even England had huge right wing gains
Maybe a Muslim invasion makes the citizens rethink?
This is not an accurate take at all. You are definitely American
You say that like it’s a bad thing and even an American totally apathetic to Europe still notices obvious trends. Smoothbrain
I am saying you are wrong because you are wrong. Factually. Objectively
Lol “factually”
The whole of europe is leaning right these days. The examples you mentioned France is correct, Polands been surging ahead showing an example of what right leaning government can achieve in europe for over a decade.
Most European conservatives wouldn't look out of place in the Democratic Party's progressive wing, it's an entirely different political scene.
Your swimming in a deep and barren sea brother , in a 2013 study 2014 of Swedish citizens ( note that Sweden is the most liberal country on the continent), 40% answered in a survey that they thought by that it should be illegal for gay couples to adopt children.
Yeah a lot of these comments stink of “dummy who thinks Europe is all one big progressive paradise where even the right wing is on the left and chocolate is good for you”
Much of Europe is like Boston, economically liberal or even left leaning, but not nearly as socially liberal. It's important to separate these two when talking about other countries' political landscapes.
As a person who votes for letting refugees in. I do believe refugees are ruining my country.
Why would you do that?
I severely doubt that
"A Conservative is one who wants to conserve his money, a National Socialist is one who wants to conserve his race" (George Lincoln Rockwell) I think we dont realize how much conservatives have reached, they wanted to conserve their money, they conserved their money, I would call this an absolute win for conservatives.
George clearly confused a kapitalist with a conservative. You can look at conservative parties across Europe many of them labelling themselves that and look at recent EU elections which define as conservative and surprise surprise aren’t majorly involved with wealth in comparison to the ruling parties.
Indeed, conservatism is a social policy definition, not economic. At its core, it is about retaining the values and beliefs that have been held time and time before, making changes legislative only after society itself has changed. It sees law not as a means to incite change but rather to prevent out groups from being able to disrupt or disagree with the status quo. In it’s own irony, it sacrifices individuality for solidarity, and creativity for unity; both fundamental concepts of freedom.
Quite literally: sustaining the social harmony.
Never contribute solely to money what can also be contributed to genuine societal influence though. Conservatives genuinely do believe in their backwards worldview, and would force on all of us an unjust, bullshit hierarchy the moment they have power.
Truly.
George Lincoln Rockwell? The man who created the American Nazi Party?
Look at the UK which had 14 years of right wing Tories. Fine example.
Or Germany after 16 years, conservatives love to mire down all systems, leading us straight into a buerocratic mess and stagnation
I don't know why this is a question for the Europeans. That's exactly the same here in America
That is my favorite question to ask people when they describe themselves as conservative, “what are you conserving?”
For the most part modern day consevatives want to conserve the freedoms that we have, as in freedom of speech, religion and so on. At least the voters. You'll hear people get angry when someone dares to come close to that. Politicians thou, they do what ever they get paid yo do by who ever is paying them at the moment. Same thing with any other politicians. So as we've seen, doesn't really matter who's in power, same shit keeps on going.
Also, while immigration is generally a good thing, opening the floodgates is not. A lot of Europeans from what I can tell, sort of feel like 2nd class citizens in their native countries.
European nationalism is very different from the American understanding of nationalism and even then that varies by country - Irish nationalism for example is inherently left-wing and rooted in communist and socialist ideology, likewise being conservative in Europe is nothing akin to what Americans regard as conservative, be very mindful when trying to draw these parallels because they’re covering completely alien concepts to the average American
Reminds me of Canadian nationalism, which is also firmly left-wing/socialist-leaning. USA has such a dominating culture in the western world, that Canadians (being closest in proximity) get worried about their culture/values being taken over by Americanisms. So Canada’s nationalist identity ends up being boiled down to "We are *not* America", and the left-wingers are more interested in conserving Canada's culture than the right-wingers are.
They need to be moreso worried about them becoming Indianisms...
Lol yeah, we're facing the same issue here in Australia. And UK. Anglo-Commonwealth governments are obsessed with having Indian migrants come in.
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Yeah I know. In Australia, half the reason they're bringing in so many migrants is to artificially inflate the demand of housing (while intentionally doing nothing to alleviate it). All the influential politicians own dozens of properties, so they're just lining up their pockets while us commoners suffer.
damn, Australia and Canada really are just like one in the same but with slightly different accents and much different weather huh? lol
And kangaroos vs bison. Or emus vs moose?
Definitely more towards inflating their assets and profiteering from cheap labor than the other reasons. Naturalization is actually pretty damn hard minimum \~15 years of residence from visa, green card, to citizenship. You might not know this but immigrants esp from Asian countries that come to the US aus etc tend to be wealthier off individuals w very conservative values (anglophiles if u will). Them voting for more liberal and pro immigration candidate is really not a guarantee at all. There's a running joke that ppl immediately flip sides to conservatives when they get their green card/citizenship, and there's a reason why.
The nationalists in my country (canada) could certainly be considered economically left by American standards, but they're definitely not holistically left-wing (anti immigrant and traditionalist usually.) In fact, in many liberal circles, we joke that anyone who proudly presents the Canadian flag on their cars and such are probably backwards people.
No being leftist doesnt mean supporting unregulated immigration
Being anti-immigrant isn’t the same as not supporting unregulated immigration.
Everything but the immigrant-left thing is true; flying a Canadian flag off your car means something different these last few years, especially since the convoy
Too late for that, Canada is already America-Lite
always has been
Most of canadas culture IS just american culture.
and then you have the quebecois nationalists, who just add a whole new level of confusion
Actually Irish nationalism being different from our modern concept of nationalism is more a result of ‘nationalism’ in that context meaning Ireland’s right to sovereignty, whereas with most countries like Russia or Serbia it would mean national superiority since those countries haven’t had a struggle for independence for a while, so it’s not so much a European thing as it is a contextual thing.
>*and even then that varies by country*
I'm a Welsh "nationalist", not because I'm anti-immigration and racist, but because I believe England, and by extension Great Britain has a very lengthy history of oppressing Wales and shows no progress in treating us as equals, so I believe that independence is the route to go.
Maybe when King Arthur will rise from the grave, one day…
Same goes for European right-wing in general. They aren’t conservative in the way Americans are conservative. The right wing in europe is more of a racist bent and not so much about economy. I mean of the far right parties in Denmark - Dansk Folkeparti - has a socialistic economic model (compared to the US), but a very ultranationalist and christian conservative mindset about the global world. Then we have another one popular among gen z called Liberal Alliance, which is liberal in both values and economic outlook and not in the slightest conservative. They are still right-wing though.
Have they always been this way or has it become this way over the last decade or so there?
Yet Liberal Alliance is supportive of the monarchy which isnt a liberal opinion but a conservative one.
Sadly as Trumpism has taken over the Republican party, it has gotten more anti-immigrant. But I'd say overall what you say is true. America is a country of immigrants (voluntary and otherwise!), and so generally speaking we aren't as caught up in ethnic identity as European countries.
This specific video was shot in England so it’s fair to say our brand of Conservatism pathetically copies the US like a sad younger sibling.
Idk man I saw a bunch of Fascist bishops, political pundits, flagrantly pushing the Nazi talking points in Spain and Italy recently. Idk how exactly that's different from American conservatives at this point.
Makes sense since Spain and Italy are both countries with a lengthy history of successful fascist military-governance in action; one was an Axis member allied with Nazi Germany during WW2 while the other was ‘neutral’ but still supported the Axis powers behind the scenes, yet at the same time the UK existed as a fully conservative state
This is exactly the difference, though. European nationalism is far more ethnic in character than in the U.S., where it’s hard to reconcile ethnic nationalism with the country’s identity as a nation of migrants.
That's the other side of the coin. Racism is also distinctly different in Europe, as in the boundaries are not drawn along "race" primarily. It's also defined by ethnicity and primarily national identity. Somewhat bizarre example: group of white guys with their black friend on the train, shit talking lazy immigrants from the neighbour country who steal their jobs.
This. In Czechia our communist party is incredibly nationalistic and anti-LGBT and pro-Russia. Even our "far-right" party (led by half Japanese dude of all people) isn't that much "right" in actual policy. In Slovakia their anti-progressive parties are left wing too.
That's because Irish nationalism is a national liberation movement against British colonialism. National liberation movements have always been left wing, just as black nationalism in the US has been left wing or how basque nationalism, catalan nationalism etc. Are left wing. Nationalism of the oppressed vs. Nationalism of the oppressor. Now, the actual nationalism of fully independent nation states instead of minority groups or countries that are resisting economic imperialism or neo-colonialism from other countries is inherently right-wing. This goes for Europe as well. Actually especially for Europe and the US.
You’re right this is alien. Where do you live? I need to come out to Europe, shit sounds lit af. I’ve been stuck in the US for to long playboy. Are you in Poland by any chance?
It should be noted that Keith Woods is a far-right loon that believes Jews are dumping Muslims into EU.
Lmfao it’s sort of wild that Muslim and Jewish peoples are going back and forth on antisemitism and Islamophobia and this dude is just like, “But what about *both* of them?!”
If you're both antisemitic and Islamophobic, it cancels each other out, which means you're neither! Genius! Bravo Vince!
I wonder why he would say this then.
Because that's how anti-semitism works. You take whatever social problem you don't like, find some jews involved, and blame the jews for it. It's always worked this way.
European conservatism is dead. It started in the 80s and it’s died in the 2020s. Populism has taken over. It’s entirely true. Our politics has become massively Americanised.
Just like a grand part of our cultures. The entire world gets Americanised
As part of it, Americanized\*
Looking at European history, do you honestly believe populism and ethnic nationalism are American imports? Seriously, I know criticizing the U.S. and blaming all your problems on its influence is a pastime of some Europeans, but this particular take is plainly wrong.
Well it’s not really just that. The whole culture war is entirely an American import into our politics not seen since after the Second World War. It is simple a statement of fact to say it has started in the US as American focus groups have been funding focus groups throughout Europe on issues that didn’t exist 10 years ago here. Ethnic nationalism only scratches the surface of the new wave of populism.
Man, what a way to throw the Balkans completely out of the window.
Seriously, are these Europeans really pretending that populism and ethnic nationalism are American imports? Take some fucking responsibility for your own countries. This one ain't on America. Heck, ethnic nationalism is way worse in Europe than the US.
Yeah, the “America bad” shit is just embarrassingly cringe.
First exposure to a demagogic political leader for many was Trump. So yes they see it as an 'Merica thing and not what actually causes demagogues to be able to rise to power in the first place. Black and white issues are what human brains crave, not shades of grey.
First? There are still millions in Europe who were alive when Hitler was.
Did Berlusconi really go unnoticed? I would say we Italians have the unglorious achievement of getting the first massively successful populist politician of the current century, and even then he caused a ripple effect in Italian politics, with populism being the core tenet of Beppe Grillo's M5S, and then Salvini's Lega after he took over. All of them having, as a common factor, no defined ideology (Berlusconi did like to dunk on communists and the Lega started as a separatist movement, however), and making unrealistic promises that sounded miraculous to the electorate and had the effect of pushing them to power. I am not glad in the slightest that we have this massive bog of a political class now, but I don't think it's in historical accuracy's best interests to forget that populism probably had its start here. In other news, I don't think it hurts to remember that Berlusconi was a great friend of Putin's, Salvini received funding from Putin's party and wore a pro-Putin t-shirt that got him dunked on by a Polish politician when he visited Poland, and the M5S are very vocal about Ukraine surrendering while also having a rather sketchy story of Russian soldiers officially providing Covid aid were almost allowed to access sensitive information while they were in power.
Populism is not an idelogy is a way of making a political movement so telling conservatism die because of populism is nonsense
I agree but I've noticed that who's kinda younger than me (2007-2009) are generally more right wing leaning and I've also heard a lot of people noticing this
Hasn't it gone extreme in both right and left directions? A lot of young people also support communism and open borders.
I think it's probably like this
It’s probably worth clarifying that those are two different things. Republicans in the US tend to conflate them.
Honestly same with liberals. Lots of communists are opposed to opening borders. Lots of communists very much so value nationalism as without nationalism it’s easy for a communist state to crumble. Lots of conservatives really benefit from immigration with paying lower wages less workers rights etc. I think immigration has its pros and cons but just because standard American communists believe in open borders doesn’t mean that’s a core belief.
I feel like the age of 2007-2009 (17-15) are a bit undeveloped in political thought due to lack of any real world experience and will eventually normalize.
“Will eventually normalise” you can tell that to the adults who voted for most right wing leaning parties in the EU elections recently.
I don’t believe these people prefer every policy of the right wing, but the European left has refused to face the issue of immigration and that’s pushed people to single policy vote for parties that will.
Yeah that is completely true, and it can create a dangerous atmosphere at times, where the political definitions of these parties become twisted in some way when in reality the issue of immigration should be a simple matter of agreeing upon no matter your political alignment and even immigrants who have settled in Europe and contribute to society and assimilated into the culture will even tell you that.
I've been this way for 8 years now and I don't see myself changing. The system we are under is profoundly abnormal and is in need of "normalization."
I mean 2007-2009 is still very young and really has no idea abt politics
Teens being extremists is nothing new, Communists, Nazis, Monarchists and so on are vastly over represented among those who can't even vote yet, it's been the case back in my day as well. I think it's due to people just hating the establishment and everything associated with it at that age, it's the age range where one thinks everyone else has it all wrong.
It's nothing new for (mainly male) teenagers to develop their countries' brand of right leaning tendency before many are exposed to a broader spectrum of ideas through higher education.
Where i live, people are more from the left (But with what happening it makes a lot of sense)
In America the young are more left wing but men especially are right wing
Yes and no there is a rise in nationalism in Europe however it makes sense I’m currently a American living In Germany and have been here since before the afghan pull out and when that happened Arabs FLOODED this place and most of Europe and are now trying to instill their own values and force their ideology on the culture. Rape rates rose as well as violent crime in general. As Americans we don’t feel like we get to say “you don’t belong here” because we are a nation of immigrants. But imagine how you’d feel if your actual ancestral home was somewhat under siege by another culture who quite literally and frankly hates you and what you stand for.
I cant believe this comment is gaining a relatively high amount of upvotes? I appeal to everybody to use a little bit of critical thinking - do you think somebody saying German "ancestral lands" are "under siege" by "arabs flooding the country" is an actor you should believe? Then again, this comment is a perfect example of what European right-wingers/conservatives/nationalists act like right now. Populism above everything. :D Germany has around half a million refugees in the country. As of 2021, Germany had around 1.5 million people from Arab countries - which encompasses *22 countries*. There is no flooding happening, Germany has also ALWAYS BEEN A DIVERSE/IMMIGRANT NATION. Germany, for most of its history, was never one country, it was many different kingdoms with many different subjects. Even when Germany came closer to being a country, the subjects were incredibly mixed (aside from local German populations with their own cultures, there were many Jews, minority groups from neighboring countries, and inhabitants from neighboring countries). Post-WW2, Germany became a nation for immigrants in search for work too. Germany is an immigrant nation and always has been. You act as if every immigrant or a group of muslim immigrants in of themselves is trying to instill foreign values into the country they now live in. Why? Why do you say that? Do you say that based on one protest in Hamburg that was heavily reprimanded and condemned by Muslims and non-Muslims alike? Do you say that based on the individuals that have committed terrorist acts in the name of Islam? I hope you say the same about right-wingers then, because there have been several instances of VERY deadly terrorist attacks against minorities in the past couple of years. There's the attack in Hanau, when a man went to hotspots for immigrants and shot a bunch of them while the police displayed an amazing amount of failure. There's the terrorist that shot Walter Lübcke in his own garden for saying immigrants are welcome in Germany and Islam is a part of it. There's the man that shot up a community of Jehovah's witnesses after the police failed to identify or stop him countless times. There's the guy that tried to break into a synagogue in Halle, couldnt, and then went into a Turkish restaurant to shoot people. Or, if you wanna go further back in time, the ORGANIZED MURDERS of innocent Turkish men by the NSU that were presented as "Döner murders" by German media outlets. The issue isnt right-wing opinions, and the issue isnt Islam. The issue are religious extremists, unchecked extremists and populists like you.
"Germany is an immigrant nation, always as been" hahah just shut up. You have no clue what you're talking about.
I’m not even German, and is it not their ancestral land? And they 100% are if you think they aren’t your daft. It’s all over Europe.
Non-white people existing is all over Europe? If the response of Europeans to seeing a brown person working at their local pastry shop is to vote for Nazis, maybe euros are just shit people after all?
The hell in Germany do you live that you say they "flooded" the place after the Afghanistan pull out. I'm German and haven't seen a major difference at all since then. The majority of Muslims I talk to are decent human beings, haven't ever felt "under siege". Such bullshit.
lol the american again thinking its all about america. irl arabs flooded the place way before afghanistan
How does US rightwing/Classical Liberal conservative politics differ from German/European politics “conservatives”. I’m trying to understand as a US citizen because so many parallels are drawn but I don’t think they are comparable? I’ve been asking but I cannot actually get a straight answer beyond, one is right wing and the other is further right wing. Like US conservatives seem to be very anti central gov and more about letting states do their own thing. And parties act differently it seems at the state vs federal level.
They are not comparable. Broadly: European conservatives care much less about free unregulated markets / small government. Most have some form of social market policy with regulations, some social safety, etc. That also goes for social and environmental issues. Ideologically, most European conservatives are also not classical liberals, and put much less importance on individual liberty and freedom. In place of that, you basically get a degree of nationalism, emphasis of cultural identity, etc. So less globalism, more orientation towards the good old times, more "looking after your own people" (and only them!). Pushed to the extreme: In the US: you get slave owners or raging capitalists / libertarians (in the American sense), who want to do whatever they want. Or more Modern: the John Birch Society. In Europe: you get authoritarian nationalism (facism).
If anybody's wondering what the John Birch society was, it was invented by a man who was concerned Eisenhower and Nixon were communist sympathisers, it would be hilarious if they weren't so well funded. They we're prominent enough in the 20th century that both Bob Dylan ("Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues") and Pete Seeger ("The Jack Ash Society") released songs criticizing them.
AfD (Germany's right wing party) is more right-wing than the Republicans/GOP. AfD wants a net zero number of immigrants each year while Trump supports giving green cards to college graduates. Also AfD is a lot more friendly to Russia and China.
We have similar things going on here, but it's more to do with Mexico kind of. Also, guess which states are on the border and have some of the most laxed gun laws? Texas.
I think though generally as a white American who’s traveled over a lot of Latin America. Latinos are a lot more similar to Americans than Arab people are to Europe. And before you come at me think religiously, think of how women are usually treated, marriages. It’s a bit easier to fit into American culture.
Lay off the racist crap
if you meat a right wing zoomer hes most likely a nazi who thinks jews control everything
Same if you meet a left wing zoomer.
How so?
Because he could make the claim
So we're going straight to the most radical centrist horseshoe theory without even contributing any context of our own? Give me a break. There are plenty of valid criticisms of left-wing ideology and, more specifically, people who call themselves leftists. Plenty to do with implementation, accelerationism and the question of after the revolution, among other details you can better distinguish by actually having real human conversations. But it is NOT the same as what about right-wing ideology and its adherents deserves criticism. Even if you are equating the impact of far left and far right misdeeds (an irrationally moderate take), the actual motivations and means of attainment are very distinct. You don't have to agree with either political extreme, but maybe do some basic research instead of trying to suggest that left wingers are somehow also nazis.
Yeah, I mistakenly alluded to horseshoe theory as well, it's more that they're both often fanatical which is where the similarities are
They're 16. We'd be lucky if they know what any of these political terms even mean. Nevermind I checked it out for a second. They're dumb.
just not true tho
In what reality do you live?
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If someone truly subscribes to the authoritarian right wing ideology that believes society should be based on racial hierarchies and some races are inherently superior to others, then a tiny group like jews becoming super successful in powerful institutions means they are inherently the master race. They're just smarter than everyone else and "won" the game that these far right people insist on making everyone play. Thats not ideology, thats JEALOUSY So logically, far right people should have no problem with jews being at the top. But they hate them, why? Because white supremacy isn't about believing in a consistent ideological framework, its just a bunch of mediocre, unremarkable people in a majority group who feel invisible and boring and who's only true motive is hating on others to feel better about their basic bitch selves. They hate "superior" races, they hate "inferior" races, they spend all their time HATING on everyone and every thing instead of spending their time developing real self esteem where you don't have to do that to feel good about yourself in the first place. Seriously, who invents this bizarre game of racial hierarchies, insists everyone has to play, come in SECOND place, shits on everyone who came in 3rd and 4th and 5th, AND ALSO whines that they deserve first place but wah wah wah ThE JeWs cHeAteD? Bitch please. Take your silver medal and get a fuckin hobby ya clown
i’m guessing it’s this small populations goal to turn everyone trans and erase the white race too? if you want a group to hate, hate the rich in general, detached from identities that pit you against other people who are truly no different in any meaningful way than you are you know there’s an overwhelming amount of old white men in power in general, not just jewish ones, right?
Even when I was an anti immigrant right winger I never got onboard of the whole "the rich are jews" thing. Lizards maybe, but why jews? Now I'm mores convinced that the only thing uniting "the rich" is that they have a lot of money, and that it is a far (faaar) bigger group than what can fit in one restaurant.
yeah, some old asshole who won the game of capitalism isnt going to be more nefarious because his ancestors were born in a specific land or other. people just like having a scapegoat to protect their hate on to they try and use information like this as a reason for why it’s justified to mistreat people who have nothing to do with those numbers. it’s like how racists like to bring up the black crime rate and then for some dumb reason try to explain that being prone to crime is a genetic thing. there’s zero effort put into analyzing the economic and social reasons for why crime exists in over policed, impoverished zones with poor job opportunities and education system, and instead go “see? this whole civil rights thing was a bad idea”
https://preview.redd.it/3g1u86r1dd9d1.jpeg?width=408&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=928e9a758f88bbfd3eeb15235822dcb593aeec10
First time dipping my toes into this subreddit. I thought maybe itd be interesting but instead I found a guy parroting nazi talking points and somebody else saying the Jews control everything. Maybe the kids arent alright
right? Why are all the nazis up? What the fuck happened to this sub? I really wish we could verify gen-z 1995-2013 Just so I can know who is an invader or whether or not my peers are becoming nazis.
There is as much coordination between these powerful jews as there are between the black athletes that hold key NBA positions.
"Everyone who I don't agree with is a Nazi"
I mean... Pretty much, yeah. We don't really have young "boring" conservatism, we have progressives and nationalists, and the odd radical Libertarian (Which is much more focussed on ancap than whatever American libertarians are smoking). There are some older generations which are conservative, but very rarely the youth, presumably because they're not seeing a state of life they particularly want to conserve and just disagree on how to change it.
as a russian: every young person I know is either not into politics at all, a communist, a fascist or some combination thereof I have not seen a young liberal since navalny's wave died in \~2018 and even then it was a weird amalgamation of people from all over the spectrum supporting Navalny out of spite basically
Are young people in favor of the president you currently have or no? Or do they not really care to much?
stop generalizing, please.
Yes. Very true, also highly influenced in places with much migration with second and sometimes even third generations of migrants.
The alt right pipeline with the "feminist gets owned compilation" Like videos on YouTube is real and i almost fell into it, many of the people that are the same age as me and started pandemic as young Teens trying to find and identity fell into that.
I can assure you almost every male between the ages of 12 and 16 has fallen into it. There is almost no way to evade it, the algorithms push it so hard, specially around 2016. The only thing that happens is either people are smart enough to escape it, or they stay in the hole and get worse and worse
He’s gonna have a hard time convincing his fellow white nationalists he’s one of the good ones.
It's that guy a literal strasserist?
He’s just a neo-Nazi.
Technically, a Strasserite is just a left-wing Nazi
Can't say I'm surprised when there is so much media going "ahh, minorities are invading the country"
Real ones know that conservatism is dead because it’s reactive. Can’t win if you only place defense. It would be in everyone’s best interest if liberals chilled the fuck out a bit.
https://preview.redd.it/tphrhp89ph9d1.jpeg?width=989&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be1882fd6250ba8c4ab5b62febc72a5ad848eb50
based flyer, and true.
Yeah, this sounds about right
Yes. Conservative parties in most European countries are only really conservative in terms of economics and either don't try/haven't done anything effective to deal with the problem of immigration. Naturally people who promise stronger action on that, regardless of their other policies, will become more popular at Conservative expense. In France for example where the right-wing RN party is looking like it will become the next government, I'm sure most of their voters are probably doing so mostly because of their immigration policies.
It is at least in france , the young are in majority left wing but for the rest far rigth is dominant
"**Nationalism**, [ideology](https://www.britannica.com/topic/ideology-society) based on the [premise](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/premise) that the individual’s loyalty and devotion to the [nation-state](https://www.britannica.com/topic/nation-state) surpass other individual or group interests." Doesn't sound too bad tbh.
It’s not, people just hear it and think it’s scary, it’s literally just taking care of your own. It’s like me caring the most about my actual home than other peoples homes lol
Exactly.
When you see your culture being destroyed, you can’t blame them
True just sée thé result of the RN in France
I'm liberal but there is no decent liberal party where I live, so I identify more with nationalism.
Agree. But also keep in mind that age is a huge factor in political views (meaning what zoomers in ten yrs may have completely political views)
From what I understand European conservatives aren’t like the gop they kinda suck
I don't doubt it... The social movement has been to put people into categories and boxes and then celebrate those differences instead of encouraging togetherness. Of course people are going to end up with all the toxic traits from that. It's a real shame
Except for Italy, which is paradoxically pro america in every shape and form, yet conservative in the most canonical sense, nationalist and right-leaning (now officially neo-fascist, grazie Giorgia).
Europeans are tired of immigrants so make sense
Yes, I don’t want to bring women down to the role of a dishwasher, I just don’t want to have my throat slit or my mother raped by Pakistani or African immigrant who’s more likely to do it than native. I just want a safe country for people of my race.
Seems true everywhere. The liberals are kind of conserving the status quo and the right wants to go back in time now
Nothing will fuel nationalism or even ethnic nationalism like importing in thousands of violent barbarians who would rather set up autonomous cultural zones with your country than assimilate into your culture. The European left has no one to blame but themselves.
I think so
Anyone here have a clip of the vid in the tweet?
\*Sighs\* Alright, time to paint the tanks Green again.
I hope so
I don't let them divide me to some left right up down circle square triangle san andreas ps2 cheatcodes, I vote for me, fuck the government idiots
Kind of true for Ireland. For years we have had centrist parties ruling the roost. Left wing parties have become more prominent in recent years and are the favourite for zoomers. As for the far right. There are a growing number of far right parties in Ireland. They're very unpopular but their popularity is growing very slowly. I wouldn't call them "conservative" "identitarian" "nationalist or anything like that, they are through and through fascist and they are dangerous. Thankfully they got beat badly in recent elections but it's very concerning that they exist. Ireland was lucky to avoid the European far right frenzy but it is here just quiet...
I'm from Bulgaria and conservatives here are basically Communists and no zoomer is going to label themselves as communist here, left or right wing
Not European, but just compare Charles de Gaulle with Marine Le Pen. Old-school Catholic conservative vs. far-right nationalist.
For starters, I think it’s important to say this: Fuck Keith Woods He’s an [ethnopluralist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnopluralism) and a white nationalist who is sympathetic to, and praises the [Third Position](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position). The ideology he mentions in this tweet, [Identitarianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identitarian_movement), has behind it the most popular far-right movement in Europe at the moment, and one that has both historic and modern ties to fascist politics. He deserves no support. Moving on, yes and no. It largely depends on which part of Europe you are in, and how easily influenced you are. It is true that most zoomers in Europe are generally center-left on a cultural and sometimes economic level, and they may occasionally go further than that and be more left-wing or even far-left. However, some zoomers have become conservative, and hell, even extremely far-right in recent years. This is mostly due to online influence, the failures of center-right, center, center-left or left-wing parties in power, and probably the biggest culprit by far, widely exaggerated or fearmongering stories about minority groups. Even with this slight rise in conservatism among European zoomers, most on the continent have beliefs that far outweigh those of the right.
You've said fuck keith woods because he's an ethnopluralist without saying why thats a bad thing
The real take here is left wing internationalists are trying to brand left wing nationalists as right wing
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Yeah
Is any real difference between white nationalist and conservatives? I always thought it was just a branding change to make conservatism seem cool to the youths.
Just take a look at r/2westerneurope4u
What's a nationalist?
Look at the latest euro-elections and the result for the 16-24 year olds ... German results were mind boggling
Haa already happened.
nah
Conservative means keep old politics, liberal/progressive means new politics. Left wing can be autocratic and extremist just like right wing can. Socialist politics tends to land in the middle to the left political spectrum. US/ some American politics is very right wing and our left wing parties are comparable to some conservative parties in Europe. But our right wing is very nationalist and conservative. Also very militant. Really spooky shit going on here.