There's no image on familysearch.org. It says the record can be accessed at www2.landesarchiv-bw.de but I don't know German and I haven't figured that site out yet.
You're in luck!
So when you search for Dorinbach in the FamilySearch catalog, you will get [this](https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=29657&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Germany%2C%20Baden%2C%20D%C3%B6rlinbach%22&subjectsOpen=777005-50,367056-50) as a result. In those results, there is a [church book](https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/224056?availability=Family%20History%20Library) which has records going back to the early 1800s, and a "Familienbuch" (Family Book) back to the 1600s. The family book is a fantastic resource because it will list/group people into their respective families, and list their children when they were born/died etc. Though, all of that depends on how well the records were kept. Unfortunately those records are locked and you can only view them at a Family History Center, or an affiliated library as I had mentioned in another comment.
Fortunately for you, in that catalog search there is a duplicated copy of the church book. A lot of the towns in Germany made duplicates of their church records as a way to back them up in case of a fire or something. Those records are available to see without having to go to a FHC or affiliated library. You can view those records [here.](https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/182033?availability=Family%20History%20Library)
[This](https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6H-KPQC?i=60&cat=182033) is Felix's birth record in the duplicated church book. It is on the top right page. I can't translate/transcribe the full record because I'm going to bed, but I'm fairly confident (like 95%) that the word next to Felix's name is "unehelich". Which would mean he was in fact an illegitimate child.
If you want the whole record transcribed, the kind folks here or over at /r/translator would love to help.
Also, if you have other records from that town, you'll also be able to find them in those links I sent. They often can provide more info and context than what the indexed records normally provide.
Hope this helps!
>lot of the towns in Germany made duplicates of their church records as a way to back them up in case of a fire or something.
This was not the main reason for the copies. The main reason was that the governement wanted control over these records. Wrestling the control over these records away from the church was part of the ongoing process that ended up in the seperation of church and state. The records were then stored at the local courts and used as reference. Which is why it is a good idea to check both copies if you are stuck - the court copies frequently have remarks related to inheritance matters that aren't in the original and vice versa.
EDIT: In the above case I think this is actually a civil birth record with the preacher/priest acting as registrar office clerk, this is a speciality thanks to Napoleon.
And yes, the word is unehelich.
\>Then... I found three other children born to a Karolina Haberstroh in Dorlinbach, no father listed, all from before her marriage. What is going on here?
She either had children with several different men. Remember, this is the time of the Napoleonic wars. Rape was not uncommon. Or a betrothed going off to war, never to return.
Or she was the mistress of a man she could not marry, either for social or religious reasons.
\>Did she have four children out of wedlock, and how shameful would that have been?
Not shameful if the father had enough money and or was part of the ruling elite. Officer in the French army would be enough. Or if the local preacher was the father it would have been in his own interest not to stir up too much trouble and calm down people, promising to "talk to the girl about her sins" to the ordinary folks.
> Remember, this is the time of the Napoleonic wars.
I hadn't thought about how that would affect the average person's life. Unless the person is listed as a soldier, I don't normally consider how military actions could shape their existence. Of course most of the people I've researched so far have been in the U.S. and more recent, so martial activities have been limited to the Civil War and overseas fighting.
Thank you for opening up that avenue of research!
Have you already seen this pedigree of Caroline's mother Lucia Wernet: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~kmparker/gen/Surname Reports/wrnt.htm?(the black part of the link to be written manually)
Watch this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY9P0QSxlnI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY9P0QSxlnI) and pay attention to the years 1790 to 1815. Pay special attention to the years 1806-1808, change the speed to slow if you have to.
Pretty much all of Germany turning that bright royal French blue shows you how Napoleon's troops overran the whole area that would be Germany in 1871 borders. From about 1806 to 1814 large parts of Germany were a gigantic battle field, with large armies marching and plundering everything edible or valueable in other ways. Lots of people were constantly on the move, looking for shelter and food, fleeing approaching armies of either side.
There were many displaced people still around in the 1820s, people who lost their homes in the wars and who were moving around, begging and stealing. It was a big problem. Occasionally you'll find a churchbook entry in the 1840s to 1860s about people where their place and date of birth are unknown, many of these were child soldiers (drummer boys) or children born to soldiers who died in battle or to people otherwise on the move.
This article is not too bad, showing just how much action was going on in Germany at the time.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_Campaign\_of\_1813](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Campaign_of_1813)
The tragic thing was that this was Germans fighting against Germans, especially people from the Southwest (Baden, Württemberg) and along the Rhine were forced by Napoleon to fight against Prussians and Saxons and Austrians. By 1813 many of them were mighty sick of Napoleon and only too happy to turn their back on him if they had a chance.
Interesting. I feel at this point that I likely will never know who Felix's father was. He could be French or German, or he could have been the man his mother eventually married. I think the only way to solve the mystery would be to go to Germany and luck into some kind of records, like denied marriage petitions or something.
Hiring a professional should be cheaper than a trip to Germany and is probably a more economic use of your money.
A document that might exist is a legal guardian file from the local court. Depending upon the laws at the time and the location, women were often considered less than men and children of unwed mothers often got a legal guardian. Sometimes when the father was known to the local authorities and the mother unfit or dead, the local court tried to get hold of the father for child support. Only a handful of such files survived, but you might get lucky. If such a file exists, it is probably stored at a local archive or something. Sadly I am not familiar with records from Baden-Württemberg, so I cannot help you further.
But I can recommend that you look for a facebook group specialising in genealogy for the area and ask for tips on where you might be able to find more records.
[https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/suche/](https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/suche/) would be a good place to start. Just entering "Haberstroh" as search term I get a lot of hits, mainly from the emigration files. Many people with this surname emigrated to the USA. There are also a bunch of files from court about people argueing with their neighbors. Ditto for the surname Rombach.
Alternatively, if you look at [https://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/web/46734](https://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/web/46734) you can see in the middle of the page the heading "Suche über die Beständestruktur", underneath is a list of all archives that in total form the state archive of BW.
Dörlinbach is part of Schuttertal
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuttertal](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuttertal)
and this is part of Ortenaukreis which in turn is part of the Regierungsbezirk Freiburg.
So I would start with the "Beständeübersicht" of the Staatsarchiv Freiburg.
Wow, thank you so much! I never thought to look up the town on Family Search. I tried Googling it to see what churches were in the town and when it didn't come up due to the redistricting, I was stymied. I'll have to try that for some other lines I'm stuck on.
I think I will definitely request some help transcribing that, as I don't have even the slightest knowledge of German.
Thank you so much for launching me foward in my search!
[This](https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V4BY-XBX) is the record, correct? If so you can also view an image at a Family History Center, or an affiliated library.
Yes, it is. I wasn't sure if it was also available on the German website, and I was just not understanding how to access it. However, I think Untouchable-Ninja found the image on Familysearch! Thanks!
Not quite - un+ehe+lich. "un" is the negative prefix, "Ehe" is marriage and "lich" indicates the word is an adjective. "Holy" would have a root word of "heil" with an adjective ending of "ig". "Unehelich" translates to "illegitimate".
I have a similar situation with my great grandmother. She had three children out of wedlock before her first marriage, no father listed. Then she married and had multiple children with him. He died. She then had my grandfather out of wedlock, no father listed. Married again with multiple children. I'm still trying to figure out who my great grandfather was.
She fascinates me a lot. Before her second marriage she was a single mother, taking care of ten children. I try to imagine myself in her situation, more than 100 years ago, being poor, a widow, having illegitimate children. I wonder how she survived. She must've been a strong woman.
Hey so Germany in this era is delightfully weird. There were laws about how early people could get married with pretty high ages. So it’s pretty common for people to find info on their ancestors for this area and time that shows they are ‘illegitimate’ offspring of a couple who had kids at the age of 20 and up and then finally ‘got married’ to each other at the age of 27 when it was finally legal. It doesn’t mean the relationship was shameful or they were sneaking out of the back window. It’ll also depend exactly where they lived because agermany at this time was a patchwork of independent countries with their own laws.
https://www.genealoger.com/german/ger_marriage.htm
I'm not sure how much of this is on-line (especially for free) but I've heard genealogist Warren Bittner speak a couple times on late 18th/early 19th century social issues, where he discusses the details about the regulations around marriage and social class. So it's likely worth a look to see if you can find any of his work for more background.
Thank you for tipping me off to Warren Bittner. I found this interesting document:
https://bcgcertification.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Bittner_Dec2012.pdf
Wow, that's so interesting! According to what I've found, Karolina was 31 when she got married, so I doubt it was an age issue, at least for part of the time. I wonder if the man she married was a soldier or a journeyman? I'll have to dig into him more. It sounds like out-of-wedlock births weren't that strange due to all the restrictions. Thanks for sharing this; I would never have known!
Edit: I did find one of her later "illegitimate" daughter's death certificate, which gave her last name as "Rombach," Karolina's husband's last name. I didn't know if it was an adoption situation or what, but learning about the marriage restrictions makes me lean toward thinking the daughter was actually his!
I realize that I'm replying to a 4yr old thread, however this is great information on Felix Haberstroh.
Felix left Dorlinbach around 1848 and settled in a rural community named Yankeetown, Indiana. This site's climate and topography was similar to the Dorlinbach region. Felix does appear in the 1850 census as a citizen of Anderson township, Warrick County Indiana.
His friend Anton Fischer followed him in the early 1850's and brought a few families from the Dorlinbach region with him. These families include Herr, Kaiser, Metzger, Spaetti, etc. They eventually founded a catholic church named St Ruperts in a town called Red Brush, Indiana. This church is still standing today.
Felix is partially responsible for hundreds of German descendants in Southern Indiana today.
Can you post the record? Most of the time if it was an illegitimate kid there will be a note somewhere saying "unehelich" which means illegitimate.
There's no image on familysearch.org. It says the record can be accessed at www2.landesarchiv-bw.de but I don't know German and I haven't figured that site out yet.
You're in luck! So when you search for Dorinbach in the FamilySearch catalog, you will get [this](https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=29657&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Germany%2C%20Baden%2C%20D%C3%B6rlinbach%22&subjectsOpen=777005-50,367056-50) as a result. In those results, there is a [church book](https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/224056?availability=Family%20History%20Library) which has records going back to the early 1800s, and a "Familienbuch" (Family Book) back to the 1600s. The family book is a fantastic resource because it will list/group people into their respective families, and list their children when they were born/died etc. Though, all of that depends on how well the records were kept. Unfortunately those records are locked and you can only view them at a Family History Center, or an affiliated library as I had mentioned in another comment. Fortunately for you, in that catalog search there is a duplicated copy of the church book. A lot of the towns in Germany made duplicates of their church records as a way to back them up in case of a fire or something. Those records are available to see without having to go to a FHC or affiliated library. You can view those records [here.](https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/182033?availability=Family%20History%20Library) [This](https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6H-KPQC?i=60&cat=182033) is Felix's birth record in the duplicated church book. It is on the top right page. I can't translate/transcribe the full record because I'm going to bed, but I'm fairly confident (like 95%) that the word next to Felix's name is "unehelich". Which would mean he was in fact an illegitimate child. If you want the whole record transcribed, the kind folks here or over at /r/translator would love to help. Also, if you have other records from that town, you'll also be able to find them in those links I sent. They often can provide more info and context than what the indexed records normally provide. Hope this helps!
>lot of the towns in Germany made duplicates of their church records as a way to back them up in case of a fire or something. This was not the main reason for the copies. The main reason was that the governement wanted control over these records. Wrestling the control over these records away from the church was part of the ongoing process that ended up in the seperation of church and state. The records were then stored at the local courts and used as reference. Which is why it is a good idea to check both copies if you are stuck - the court copies frequently have remarks related to inheritance matters that aren't in the original and vice versa. EDIT: In the above case I think this is actually a civil birth record with the preacher/priest acting as registrar office clerk, this is a speciality thanks to Napoleon. And yes, the word is unehelich. \>Then... I found three other children born to a Karolina Haberstroh in Dorlinbach, no father listed, all from before her marriage. What is going on here? She either had children with several different men. Remember, this is the time of the Napoleonic wars. Rape was not uncommon. Or a betrothed going off to war, never to return. Or she was the mistress of a man she could not marry, either for social or religious reasons. \>Did she have four children out of wedlock, and how shameful would that have been? Not shameful if the father had enough money and or was part of the ruling elite. Officer in the French army would be enough. Or if the local preacher was the father it would have been in his own interest not to stir up too much trouble and calm down people, promising to "talk to the girl about her sins" to the ordinary folks.
> Remember, this is the time of the Napoleonic wars. I hadn't thought about how that would affect the average person's life. Unless the person is listed as a soldier, I don't normally consider how military actions could shape their existence. Of course most of the people I've researched so far have been in the U.S. and more recent, so martial activities have been limited to the Civil War and overseas fighting. Thank you for opening up that avenue of research!
Have you already seen this pedigree of Caroline's mother Lucia Wernet: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~kmparker/gen/Surname Reports/wrnt.htm?(the black part of the link to be written manually)
No, I hadn't seen that. I hadn't looked into Lucia because I wasn't 100% sure what was going on with Karolina. Thank you for sharing this!
Watch this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY9P0QSxlnI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY9P0QSxlnI) and pay attention to the years 1790 to 1815. Pay special attention to the years 1806-1808, change the speed to slow if you have to. Pretty much all of Germany turning that bright royal French blue shows you how Napoleon's troops overran the whole area that would be Germany in 1871 borders. From about 1806 to 1814 large parts of Germany were a gigantic battle field, with large armies marching and plundering everything edible or valueable in other ways. Lots of people were constantly on the move, looking for shelter and food, fleeing approaching armies of either side. There were many displaced people still around in the 1820s, people who lost their homes in the wars and who were moving around, begging and stealing. It was a big problem. Occasionally you'll find a churchbook entry in the 1840s to 1860s about people where their place and date of birth are unknown, many of these were child soldiers (drummer boys) or children born to soldiers who died in battle or to people otherwise on the move.
Thank you for that; the whole video was very interesting.
This article is not too bad, showing just how much action was going on in Germany at the time. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_Campaign\_of\_1813](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Campaign_of_1813) The tragic thing was that this was Germans fighting against Germans, especially people from the Southwest (Baden, Württemberg) and along the Rhine were forced by Napoleon to fight against Prussians and Saxons and Austrians. By 1813 many of them were mighty sick of Napoleon and only too happy to turn their back on him if they had a chance.
Interesting. I feel at this point that I likely will never know who Felix's father was. He could be French or German, or he could have been the man his mother eventually married. I think the only way to solve the mystery would be to go to Germany and luck into some kind of records, like denied marriage petitions or something.
Hiring a professional should be cheaper than a trip to Germany and is probably a more economic use of your money. A document that might exist is a legal guardian file from the local court. Depending upon the laws at the time and the location, women were often considered less than men and children of unwed mothers often got a legal guardian. Sometimes when the father was known to the local authorities and the mother unfit or dead, the local court tried to get hold of the father for child support. Only a handful of such files survived, but you might get lucky. If such a file exists, it is probably stored at a local archive or something. Sadly I am not familiar with records from Baden-Württemberg, so I cannot help you further. But I can recommend that you look for a facebook group specialising in genealogy for the area and ask for tips on where you might be able to find more records. [https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/suche/](https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/suche/) would be a good place to start. Just entering "Haberstroh" as search term I get a lot of hits, mainly from the emigration files. Many people with this surname emigrated to the USA. There are also a bunch of files from court about people argueing with their neighbors. Ditto for the surname Rombach. Alternatively, if you look at [https://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/web/46734](https://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/web/46734) you can see in the middle of the page the heading "Suche über die Beständestruktur", underneath is a list of all archives that in total form the state archive of BW. Dörlinbach is part of Schuttertal [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuttertal](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuttertal) and this is part of Ortenaukreis which in turn is part of the Regierungsbezirk Freiburg. So I would start with the "Beständeübersicht" of the Staatsarchiv Freiburg.
Wow, thank you so much! I never thought to look up the town on Family Search. I tried Googling it to see what churches were in the town and when it didn't come up due to the redistricting, I was stymied. I'll have to try that for some other lines I'm stuck on. I think I will definitely request some help transcribing that, as I don't have even the slightest knowledge of German. Thank you so much for launching me foward in my search!
[This](https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V4BY-XBX) is the record, correct? If so you can also view an image at a Family History Center, or an affiliated library.
Yes, it is. I wasn't sure if it was also available on the German website, and I was just not understanding how to access it. However, I think Untouchable-Ninja found the image on Familysearch! Thanks!
Geez, literally meaning ‘unholy’. Rough times.
Not quite - un+ehe+lich. "un" is the negative prefix, "Ehe" is marriage and "lich" indicates the word is an adjective. "Holy" would have a root word of "heil" with an adjective ending of "ig". "Unehelich" translates to "illegitimate".
Literally meaning 'unmarried'. Unholy would be unheilig.
I have a similar situation with my great grandmother. She had three children out of wedlock before her first marriage, no father listed. Then she married and had multiple children with him. He died. She then had my grandfather out of wedlock, no father listed. Married again with multiple children. I'm still trying to figure out who my great grandfather was.
Wow, she had an unusual life!
She fascinates me a lot. Before her second marriage she was a single mother, taking care of ten children. I try to imagine myself in her situation, more than 100 years ago, being poor, a widow, having illegitimate children. I wonder how she survived. She must've been a strong woman.
Hey so Germany in this era is delightfully weird. There were laws about how early people could get married with pretty high ages. So it’s pretty common for people to find info on their ancestors for this area and time that shows they are ‘illegitimate’ offspring of a couple who had kids at the age of 20 and up and then finally ‘got married’ to each other at the age of 27 when it was finally legal. It doesn’t mean the relationship was shameful or they were sneaking out of the back window. It’ll also depend exactly where they lived because agermany at this time was a patchwork of independent countries with their own laws. https://www.genealoger.com/german/ger_marriage.htm
I'm not sure how much of this is on-line (especially for free) but I've heard genealogist Warren Bittner speak a couple times on late 18th/early 19th century social issues, where he discusses the details about the regulations around marriage and social class. So it's likely worth a look to see if you can find any of his work for more background.
Thank you for tipping me off to Warren Bittner. I found this interesting document: https://bcgcertification.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Bittner_Dec2012.pdf
Wow, that's so interesting! According to what I've found, Karolina was 31 when she got married, so I doubt it was an age issue, at least for part of the time. I wonder if the man she married was a soldier or a journeyman? I'll have to dig into him more. It sounds like out-of-wedlock births weren't that strange due to all the restrictions. Thanks for sharing this; I would never have known! Edit: I did find one of her later "illegitimate" daughter's death certificate, which gave her last name as "Rombach," Karolina's husband's last name. I didn't know if it was an adoption situation or what, but learning about the marriage restrictions makes me lean toward thinking the daughter was actually his!
I realize that I'm replying to a 4yr old thread, however this is great information on Felix Haberstroh. Felix left Dorlinbach around 1848 and settled in a rural community named Yankeetown, Indiana. This site's climate and topography was similar to the Dorlinbach region. Felix does appear in the 1850 census as a citizen of Anderson township, Warrick County Indiana. His friend Anton Fischer followed him in the early 1850's and brought a few families from the Dorlinbach region with him. These families include Herr, Kaiser, Metzger, Spaetti, etc. They eventually founded a catholic church named St Ruperts in a town called Red Brush, Indiana. This church is still standing today. Felix is partially responsible for hundreds of German descendants in Southern Indiana today.