OP, I sometimes have these moments too. I'm almost 30 and I don't have enough patience for those "pick me girls with high pitched voice" that are between 16-22. But then I remember I had my Not Like Other Girls phase for a long time when I was much younger. I tell myself that it's just a phase for those girls and they're just trying to explore themselves and their lives.
True and I do feel much sympathy for them because saying you're "not like other girls" all it really means is that those women don't like being looked at the way that men look at women in general.
No one likes being looked at like that.
All they're really saying is that they want to be viewed as an individual rather than an object or any of the other nasty things that are said about women.
It’s human to have these moments as women living under patriarchy since we’re conditioned to see other women as competition, and it’s easier to be upset with the way they behave than it is to unlearn all the harmful and misogynistic messaging.
However, it’s important to remember that nothing breeds a “not like other girls” or “pick me” mentality like isolation from other women. Meeting these girls with kindness and solidarity in male-dominated gaming spaces will go a lot further to help them reflect and deconstruct than meeting them with antagonism and frustration, which will most likely reaffirm their worldview.
Ahh.. yes and no.. lots of "not like other girls" definitely are sexist against other girls/women.
Thats kind of the point. They buy in to the rhetoric and really think theyre different because it gets them attention.
*source:reformed "not like other girls" woman, who now has many women friends and coaches girls teams and encourages collaboration vs putting down other girls.
Same, here. I love this comment. It’s remembering how we did the same thing because that’s the insidious ways of the patriarchy. It helps me to remember that they’ll likely experience the same things that we went through that made us change for the better and become more supportive of women (and ourselves).
Oh! I should’ve also added: you are completely valid in your feelings though, in my opinion. It’s really hard when you know it’s a behaviour that oppresses women and helps men. So, I think it would be odd if you didn’t feel the frustration
I have this kind of voice. I tried to change it to be less feminine and more gamer bro but it's just not me. I'm pretty good at gaming and have zero interest in attracting anyone other than my boyfriend. I think judging people based on their voice may be some internalized misogyny and it's awesome that you're recognizing that. Everyone has things they make judgements off of but recognizing them and deciding whether it's valid or not is very important.
yo same. i have the highest pitch babiest voice :-( even worse when i put on my polite business voice. it's not like i want to sound like this lol. i agree, it's internalized misogyny and assuming everyone who sounds like that is a "pick me" is so cruel. pick me is based off behavior, not sound of voice.
My best friend from high school has a naturally high pitched voice and people gave her hell throughout her life to "undo" her voice :/
She stopped watching Anime after getting bullied that people thought she started to sound like that because of "too much Anime."
I do not even like Anime or support it, but that's insane to me.
I never thought twice about her voice, as it sounds like a normal person's voice to me, but whenever we play with other people they often ask me "is that her real voice?"
I hate that she has to go through this BS for speaking in her natural voice.
I hate the term “pick me” used in this context. “Pick me” is supposed to mean women who embody a “pick me [over her]” mindset.
If she’s not actively putting down other women, she’s just flirting. I’d start by introspection on this: why does it bother you that it works?
As a SoCal girl I am triggered lol. I just sound like that, man. If I had a penny for everytime I was called a flirt, just because of the way I sound, I’d at least have a dollar. The Valley Girl in me is here to stay, much to the dismay of OP, lol.
I accept that OP is annoyed by the idea of women who are doing it unnaturally and intentionally, not the people who just actually talk like that.
But even if we only talk about the women who are faking that voice: who cares! She’s flirting. Everyone flirts.
I mean, my opinion? Yes, you do have internal issues to sort out. Maybe they legit sound like that? But even if it is performative, why would that annoy you?
It isn't affecting you, yet it's compelling you to have specific judgments of these women. That certainly seems like some sort of unresolved internal stuff.
I think you're right. And it does make me sad genuinely, I don't want to be judgy, I wanna support woman.
I'll need to work on this, thank you.
And like I said in the post, the reason I felt annoyed was because it doesn't affect me really in the moment but I feel that "pick me girls" really put a bad look on woman as a whole and it really affects the way that men see us and the way they *think* we should behave.
But you're right, I'll work on this problem with myself. I appreciate you sharing your opinion on a kind way.
I apologize for being bitter 😅 that's very ugly of me. I'll work on this
You're fine. Hell, you acknowledged you may be in the wrong and were seeking advice. That's like... most of the battle lol.
Just bear in mind, the prevailing patriarchy has spared no expense to position all forms of media to encourage women to turn on one another. It's deeply, deeply ingrained and has been taught to women for decades.
Just keep questioning and reflecting. For example, "why should it matter if this impacts how men look at women?" If that's the root of your frustration, realize it's still pandering to the patriarchy with the expectation that women's behavior needs to garnish men's approval, but men can act however they please.
Challenge these thoughts and feelings. Women can also act however they please, and do not need to answer to - nor meet the expectations of - any man, should they not have a fuck to give over it.
And most of all, be kind with yourself and recognize like I said, you're already taking the hardest step in challenging yourself. You will shatter through these constraints, I know it. Much love. ❤
Wow, thank you so much. I really needed to hear all of that.
And that point you made about how I shouldn't care if it affects how men see us, that really got to me. I feel like what you just said alone really helped me view it differently and helped me lift a huge weight with realization.
Also thank you so much for your kind words and reminding me to be kind to myself because I was starting to feel like a total shitbag, because I don't ever want to be the kind of woman that brings other women down like this.
My frustrations came from feelings of injustices from men and I was turning that back on other women regardless of my intentions.
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to kindly help a stranger in their personal issues, this helped a lot and I'm grateful to you for your kind words.
Well, I teared up. I'm so glad I could help at all. Sometimes that feels so difficult to accomplish on the internet! We ladies really do need to stick together and I try to do what I can in that regard. So this back and forth really made my day.
Yeah I think something to remember is all women don't have to think and act alike. You may think how the people you're describing act looks bad for all women, but we don't need to be judged on the actions of other women. It shouldn't matter what anyone else does because we're all unique individuals living our own lives. And we certainly don't need to judge each other. Totally fine to not necessarily want to be besties, but I don't get why it would spark anything more than mild annoyance.
All that said, asking this question was the right way to go about this and you have nothing to feel bad about. Your reaction was the misogynistic part you've been taught by society, but you questioning that was who you are. Working on yourself and questioning what's behind your reactions are never bad ❤️ so don't beat yourself up about it
I'm so sorry to hear that 🖤 I'm sorry for contributing to the toxicity.
I would never hate you for your voice at all.
To be clear I was not referencing women with naturally petite voices, I've had many woman friends like this. Still though I'm sorry for this...
That's not what I intended
No offence but they way you talk about this sound kind of “not like the other girls” in and of it’s self. Like women have enough issues without making assumptions about wether someone is being performative in their femininity or putting each other down for being too feminine or non feminine enough.
Like maybe these people are playing it up so they won’t get harassed as much. It could be a protective thing because of how toxic these types of games can be to women.
People tell me I talk like a valley girl but thats just how I talk. One of my friends has a super high pitched voice that both men AND women in our competitive games mock and make fun of in vc, but that’s just how she speaks as well and we both can’t change that.
I agree with you and no flame to OP at all, but I also think OP has some internal issues. I don’t think it should be bothering her that much, especially outside of gaming as she mentioned. Also someone is a pick me if they put other women down or make fun of other women, which I’ve found more women with “non high pitched” voices seem to do based on my own personal experience weirdly enough. I may talk like a valley girl and my friend may have a high pitched voice, but we never shit talk women in our games and only defend women
Enablers affect everyone. A woman acting like that and enabling patriarchal stereotypes DOES affect her, and me, and you. Guys see women like that and they set their opinions in stone and are harder to educate since they will say “yes but these girls-“
In my opinion? That was a valid response to those pick me girls and OP isn’t mysoginistic at all. Being annoyed at mysoginy isn’t mysoginistic.
women with high pitched voices or those who speak like "valley girls" are not enabling misogynists and it's wild to imply that these women, who are more likely to be victims of misogyny than anything resembling enablers, are somehow enabling misogynist men by existing.
eta: changed some wording for clarity
It’s misogynistic to blame women for a problem created by men. I empathize with your perspective after reading your comments, but women are not the source of the issue and that’s why it’s misguided to focus on your issues with their behavior rather than the overarching issue of a society that hates women. What’s inspired them to pander to men? Why do they feel they need to put on affectations, to “water the roots” of the problem, as you put it? They’ve been taught that their worth is measured by their ability to appeal to men, by their sexiness or cuteness, by their external presentation.
I really do understand where you’re coming from, I used to feel similarly at the beginning of my journey with feminist studies. But I encourage you to focus your energy on the actual problem and meet women you’d call “pick mes” with empathy, as I can guarantee it’s more likely to get them to reflect anyway. It was a hard but valuable lesson for me that **you cannot tell other women how to cope under patriarchy.**
I think what you are overlooking is that the men that would be swayed by this behavior are ALREADY misogynists and have a terrible opinion of women. They're going to be so regardless if any one woman is or isn't acting flirtatious or whatever. A woman shouldn't have to feel she is bearing the burden of the entirety of men's opinions just because she feels like being flirty. Maybe she's felt like shit and just wants to feel some attention. That's her prerogative.
So the point is you can't concern yourself that a behavior is eroding men's opinions of women when they're already going to have those opinions no matter how we act. But really more to the point, we should get past caring what they think, or operating under the intent to "earn" men having a higher opinion of women. The fight should be that we don't require their approval, and really trying to tear down women for not acting in accordance with earning the menfolk's respect is ironically the same problematic circumstances of patriarchal influence.
1) Opinions can change, but it’s hard to change someone’s opinion when they have “proof” that their opinions are right. It’s one thing to tell a mysoginistic guy (who is like that cause he was raised like that and wasnt educated, but can learn) something and him not having any arguments, it’s another to say “women aren’t always submissive or girly” and them saying “well every woman I’ve played with was like that, you’re one girl against the dozens I’ve met that went against what I believed and saw so far”
And yes, I agree that our individual behavior isn’t an excuse for those opinions. I never said this behavior is the cause. But it does make things harder and contributes to the problem. Those girls aren’t the root of the problem, but they’re watering the roots.
2) I fully agree that we shouldn’t give a fuck about what men think about us. But yet, here you are enabling this pickme mentality, of girls forcing themselves to sound more feminine and act more feminine for male attention. You can’t say that yet enable those girls. The type of girls that raise their voices 3 octave higher and act all cute around guys, but when its just her and other girls she speaks like a normal person and doesn’t force herself saying “uwu” every 2 minutes.
So we shouldn’t care what men think, but we are okay of women who force themselves into acting stereotypically feminine for male attention?
I feel like a lot of assumptions are being made here, which correlates to the entire thing this thread started with - internalized bias.
What proof can we point to that these behaviors "make things harder" for women to earn respect they shouldn't be concerned with earning?
What proof do we have that any number of these women don't just sound this way naturally, or that that's just their regular personality? We say they must be forcing it, which is an unfair bias.
Why are we making women who feel like acting cute out to be automatically enemies of other women?
Why do we need to position this that women are forcing themselves to act this way when they're CHOOSING to because they want to
And again, why are we deluding ourselves that misogynistic men will not simply lie and/or invent "evidence" to support their hatred of women in perpetuity? Why isn't the focus "we need to remedy how men judge us" and instead always has to be "we need to ostracize women that don't fit into the mould to meekly gain respect of shitty men"?
Other women are not the enemy. We really need to place the crosshairs on the right target. Or aren't we the REAL "pick me" girls if we're ready to throw any woman under the bus that doesn't act the way we feel is correct to attempt to guide men's sensibilities?
On the flip side, what it sounds like is that you want all women to behave the way YOU think they should behave.
It's really hypocritical that a lot of the feminism movement is about enabling women to feel free being how THEY THEMSELVES want to be, yet a lot of the same people advocating for this get mad at other women for not acting in the specific way they personally think a woman should be behaving.
It's toxic all the same.
You know what world I want to live in? One where any man or woman can, as long as they're not hurting anybody else, can be happy and accepted being themselves without being judged.
What do I care if another a woman is *happy* choosing to be a tradwife? It's not my jam but good for her! You do you girl! On the flip side, what do I care if a guy *wants* a tradwife and they're happy together? I wouldn't date a guy like that, but great for them if they find someone with shared life goals!
^ Take that idea but apply it to all other similar situations, including this discussion about how someone chooses to act and sound.
The goal is not to slap a new set of criteria for what it means to be an acceptable person, it's to create a world free of judgment where everyone is accepted even if someone else's choices and lifestyle are not your cup of tea.
If I see a woman who wants to be a tradwife get a husband who wants to be the sole provider and let her do that, I'd be happy for them both because they've found happiness and are living true to themselves - not judge her and get upset that she's "ruining it for women because now men will think we all want to be like that, how dare she".
Just let other people be happy and focus on your own happiness. If we all did that the world would be a much more accepting and better place to be for everybody.
Just so you know, I don’t think “tradwife” is a simple synonym for “housewife” — I’ve exclusively seen it used to refer to women who are both living that role *and* enforcing it on others and perpetuating antifeminism, and there’s definitely something we should all take issue with, no matter how happy it makes them personally.
My bad then if that's actually part of what being a tradwife is. As far as I knew and from all the ones I've seen calling themselves tradwives online it seems like it's simply taking joy in and being proud of taking on the traditional housewife role (especially in a time when their choice is often frowned upon by many). I've never seen them push their views on others and the ones I've seen are very clear that this is their own personal choice and basically just give tips on house cleaning, decorating, preparing food, etc. If they're enforcing their lifestyle on other people then I agree it's not ok.
Random, but 30 Rock has an episode about this EXACT issue that has stuck with me. I can't remember if this sub allows youtube links? I'll post a link to the clip I'm thinking of in the comments unless mods ask me to take it down. I can relate to feeling judgemental of/ annoyed by that type of behavior and I remember watching this episode years ago and feeling surprisingly challenged by it.
A "pick-me girl" is not a girl who is seductive in a masculine environment and, honestly, I think the term is being misused. Being flirty and sexy is OK and there's nothing wrong with wanting to feel desired.
A pick-me girl is a girl that throws other women under the bus just to get male attention. The kind of girl who loves bragging about she is OK with objectified characters, who claims feminism is not necessary and who says exactly what men want to hear to reinforce their position. And the kind of girl who kick other women out of a space because they want to be "the only girl in the group".
Personally, I think you have internalized misogyny and maybe you're a bit jealous of other girls getting attention. There's space for you all, for you and the girls who behave "sexy" or you perceive as "girly". At least you acknowledge there's a problem and you're willing to work on it and that's a huge step.
Edit: adding something else.
Yeahhhhhh the pick me bit is really the only part I raised my eyebrow at.
I'm nearly 30 and have been told I speak like a valley girl with a high-pitched voice. I am very happy to not be picked lol. I didn't choose my voice or what words and pacing comes naturally to me.
I got these beautiful new headphones/mic that I honestly haven't even used, specifically bc of perceptions like this. I expect it from most men, but it sucks to get it from women too.
Use those headphones and mic if they make you happy.
Girly girls exist. Women with high-pitched voices exist. Ultra feminine women exist. And they deserve respect. Feminism was never about banishing "cuteness" or "feminine traits". And I know women with high-pitched voices are usually mocked. Hell, men with high-pitched voices are mocked as well because they're not "masculine enough".
Also, there's nothing wrong with being flirty if the other part consents and participates as well. I think rejection is created by the misconception of that there's only space for one woman. And it's not. You can have a flirty girl on your team, and still there will be a place for you. Being flirty is not "creating an standard on men's expectations on women". It feels like us women have the constant responsability to be an ideal of how it genre must be regarded. We must be perfect at games so they don't think women suck at games. We must be intelligent so they think women are not inferior. And now we must not be flirty so they don't think the rest of the women are like us?
Ugh, that last bit rings so true. I actually enjoy FPS games like COD until I start thinking about how average I am at them. Like, not even bad, just not great, and that's not good enough.
Thanks for the uplift <3
It's fine to be annoyed with something, not everyone is going to like everyone's actions/behaviors/quirks and voices. However, like you said, the explanation of why it bothers you seems to have hints of internalized misogyny. Generally, when being annoyed with something, there isn't always a reason or explanation, it's usually surface-level and just something that irks you. But when the explanation is quite detailed and you are able to trace those feelings back to deep-rooted thoughts like "men falling for that type of attention and losing your faith in men", it does seem like it comes from a place of internalized misogyny, but that's normal, our society is patriarchal so it's hard not to have any internalized misogyny.
In my own experience, I feel like the older I've been getting, the more out-of-touch I'm becoming with younger generation gamers (like 15-22 year olds now). I think the better word to describe my feelings when I hear things like that or excessive flirting/bait (especially those people who try to do it to get viral on TikTok) is "cringe". I find it very hard to even listen to and I'm usually trying to ignore them because it's so cringey.
Girl, I know exactly what you’re trying to say - it’s just hard to verbalize the specific vibe you’re talking about. There’s a difference when women have high voices, are flirty, or even just wanting attention.
I personally talk all the time in COD, make crazy sounds bc it just comes out of me faster than I can mute, and men have definitely thought I was flirting. I’m just having a good time and not restraining myself.
But the ones you’re talking about are the women putting on a performance for men in such a way that they’re like dehumanizing themselves, almost, for male attention. It’s super cringe and is def a young person thing to do. You can tell when it’s fake and when someone is just genuinely like that.
Anyway, if you play HC control, DM me :)
100% agree, comments here about misogyny are talking about just a girl flirting but there’s definitely that distinct vibe that i’ve noticed us girls can pick up on but it seems most guys can’t distinguish between that fake pick me vibe and normal flirting, and i find that frustrating and i think that’s what OP is trying to get at
I disagree with a lot of the comments actually. I don't think it's internalized misogyny, I think it's frustration with the way some women perpetuate certain roles and child like characteristics for sexual attention or praise.
That is annoying especially when you're a feminist who has done any research into why "liberal feminism" often hurts us more than helps us. (I don't use liberal in a annoying conservative way I am a leftist and a lot of mainstream feminism narratives have been flipped and now are actually very harmful ie: girlbossing, over sexualization etc)
However if she is just speaking and not flirting with any guys back or engaging with anyone in that way then I think it *could* be maybe a bit misogynistic. But I play COD every day and I totally understand what you mean and I think it goes far deeper than just assuming you have internalized misogyny because a women has a femme voice, putting on a child like whiney anime girl voice and trying to get male attention on mic is annoying and it perpetuates stereotypes and harmful gender roles that I want to dismantle/ abolish.
If anything I think I feel bad for those girls like I want to help them out of that😭
Well I mean I am going off my exp as a woman who plays COD and pvp game's frequently and it's usually a girl trying to get men to give her money or buy her of. I hear it atleast once a week. In those cases I know they're faking it and feeding into those gross stereotypes to lure gross men in to give them money. That's why i said if they weren't flirting or doing weird stuff then it could be misogynistic but im using my own experience as reference
She did mention men flirting back, idk to me this just resonated and made me think ab the women i occasionally hear on mic. Although OPs post was detailed and went beyond just hearing a woman speak in a femme voice and being mad, there were genuine feelings and reasons behind it and I think why those feelings arise could be because of the hyper sexualization in liberal feminism that is pushed so often now-a-days. But again I deff see a gray area here, really depends on the interactions OP was hearing and in my experience they are often women in search of attention from men when I hear that whiney child voice
She didn’t say that they all had male responses, she said when she hears that voice at all, she’s annoyed. Then she said that sometimes the voice will get men responding to it and then she said that she thinks “really, this voice works on y’all?” Further having negative thoughts to these woman.
You're really just saying the same thing as OP but with embellishment, and it does come down to internalised misogyny. Some girls just have a valley girl accent. Some girls have cute voices. And some girls purposefully do a cute voice, but it isn't always for the attention of men. It annoys me when I hear it, but I'm a woman, so when another woman is doing it to me, it's because she's just being a cutie. Also, so what if they are doing it for the attention of random men on cod, unless they say something or do something offensive or rude does it really matter if they change their voice?
Well 1.) yes it's generally annoying itself
and also im not annoyed at all by extremely femme or valley girl accents. im talking about that whiney uwu girl voice that i have never heard someone naturally have. it's not a crime to be annoyed by something and it doesn't necessarily have to be linked to internalized misogyny. if anything i feel that annoyance is linked to my frustration and painful experiences with misogyny.
2.) "so what if they are doing the voice for attention from males?" well i mean im not stopping anyone but in my opinion and from a feminist lense, as i stated in my previous comment; behavior like this encourages and upholds pedophilic, and misogynistic stereotypes that i don't believe serve us any meaningful purpose. i hold this view because i am a radical feminist (no i am not a terf trans women are included in feminism). There is nothing wrong with doing something for a males attention that is not harmful or dangerous to you. Putting on a child's voice and whining on mic while promoting your sex work is dangerous to the woman and also once again encourages things i don't believe in. I know the whole "support sex workers" thing and i get why it's so popular now because of the absolute atrocity that is the history of how sex workers are treated in society. However I think it's been spun into this things where sex work is somehow "empowering" and feeding into the male gaze and over sexualized standards (upheld primarily by the patriarchy) and now women are just participating in SW for money even though they might have other options that are much safer for them. Im not speaking about SW's that have tragically been forced into that position.
Sorry to go into this tirade ab sex work/ my feminism but im tired of explaining this lol. Look if you believe OP is misogynistic then that's okay and that is ur personal view but I tend to just have a larger scope outlook when looking at these kinds of things.
I love women, I love all women even women who do that whiney child voice on mic 🤣lmao i just strive to see better for us I respect ur opinion on it but I can't explain this any further than i have atp
Feminism means you believe in equal rights for women and men (and all genders for that matter). Why would a woman flirting in a video game make her less of a feminist? If you believe in equal rights you cannot flirt? I don’t even flirt in video games because I only play with friends but I don’t hear someone flirting and just assume she believes women deserve less rights.
dude what is going on with this thread i've created my god.
that's disingenuous you can read, i never said women who flirt are not feminists i never even said women who utilize harmful, misogynistic characteristics and voices aren't feminists. I can't decide if someone is a feminist or not, these types of girls are victims of misogyny at its finest if anything.
i don't believe their intentions to be misogynistic, at least i would hope not im sure their intentions are just to earn money, but it doesn't erase the fact that *in my opinion and based on MY views on feminism* the ways in which they are going about that goal are harmful to feminism. That doesn't mean that these girls aren't feminists, and the over generalization on ur end to insinuate that im saying FLIRTING is misogynistic like WHAAT. guys pls be so fr right now this can't be that controversial 😭😭 flirting is fine idc what you do in ur free time it's ur life
edit: and ALSO just gonna spring this in that every woman does things that are harmful to feminism/ gender abolition every day that doesn't mean ur not a feminist. Your beliefs of feminism are your own, and we are ALL guilty of this. Do you wear makeup, shave, have you enabled a shitty ex bf/ man in ur life? exactly like im not a saint i just stated my opinion was different than the majority here
I did read your original comment. I didn’t read your responses to others. You said “if she’s just speaking and not flirting back with any guys” so that seemed pointed directly towards flirtation being a problem.
My bestie has a very sing song cute voice, she’s 28, and that’s just her voice. She’s also one of the kindest most polite and outgoing friendly people you could meet. She gets shit on by other women in games all the time because they mistake her being friendly as “trying to hard”, she gets shit on for “being an uwu girl”, always. By. Women. The dudes think she’s great (she’s happily married with 3 kids and does NOT flirt), because she’s nice, she likes to joke around, she’s there to game. But women? Hate her. It’s a them problem. Some people are just people you won’t like and get along with, so move along. Turning it into a gender issue, is all coming from you.
One of my closest lady friends who I play games with also has a voice like this. She is also a kind, sensible woman and I respect the hell out of her. I honestly didn’t know this voice “issue” was a thing and this thread/becoming aware of this is genuinely upsetting for me to read. I’d be horrified if she was judged or treated differently because of how she sounds. Honestly, it makes me glad that we stick with private party chat and never hot mic (we do it to avoid misogynistic comments from men, but I’m more than happy for us to stay away from anyone’s judgements).
I think this is more nuanced than internalized misogyny or not. Is it really the voices or how they’re acting? The voice could be annoying but if it’s coupled with shitty behavior on their part that’s different
my issue is this: they’re usually coming across very child-like when they do this voice. and it can come, often, with sexual undertones. i think it’s icky that men are attracted to it & equally icky that women would play into it.
that’s my issue with it.
I had to scroll for this. Thank you. You can find things annoying and it doesn't inherently make someone misogynistic.
People are annoyed by other people all the time by millions of things.
Yeah, and we can’t always control what we get annoyed by. Me, I have misphonia or whatever it’s called. So stuff like water being poured is like nails on a chalkboard.
Sorry, but this is willful blindness at best. OP didn't just say they found voices annoying because of the way the sound is, they did it because they think it's a bad representation of women or that those girls are "faking it for attention" which is literally misogyny 101
I could make an argument out of anything, but that would be pretty annoying. Lol.
Edit: I wasn’t being passive aggressive at all. I’m just saying I don’t want to argue. You assuming the worst of me has convinced me I made the right decision.
I'm often annoyed at certain voices, so just that alone? Nah. (I disagree with people who say being annoyed by something is always misogyny)
Your explaination kinda leads there though...
I'm also confused as of why is everyone jumping into "yes it is mysoginistic" there's a lot of annoying people online that happen to be women, just because you cringe at them it doesn't mean it's mysoginistic lol
This "girls girl" thing it's being pushed way too much. Sometimes those girls will get in my team on an FPS and they won't fucking shut up about random stuff and when it's time to make calls about the game itself they don't say shit. But again, there's also guys that do that and it annoys me just as much, unless OP it's strictly annoyed at girls I don't think it's misogyny.
I get this. I have a deep voice and it does bother me. I’ve had a few games where some women will mimic what I say and it sits with me so much longer than any random insult from a guy. Just feels like a weird betrayal but I know it might be attributed to internalized misogyny. It’s a battle for me both ways.
People in the comments need to take a second and analyze the post properly before jumping to conclusions.
There’s a difference between a pickme and a girl who simply has a more feminine voice. OP tried to explain the best she could that the later wasn’t the case, as those girls would go out of their ways to behave like that.
And we know they do it for the guys because they only act like that around guys, and when they talk to you they talk normaly. They often ignore you or say very little and focus on the guys, and you can see they dont treat you the same as the guys because its all an act for men. You can simply FEEL when a girl is a pickme and does a high pitch voice and forces giggles. She’s not shaming people who are high pitched, but rather women who force themselves to act like children to get male attention.
This is the case OP is talking about.
Women who act like that JUST for men. Who become stereotypically whiny and “feminine” just for men. Who are normal and talk normaly but the second a man is around their voice goes up 3 octaves.
And in that case, no OP, it’s not internalized mysoginy. Being annoyed at mysoginy (since upholding mysoginistic stereotypes intentionally to get male attention is indeed mysoginistic) doesn’t make you mysoginistic. It’s a normal response, I also get annoyed at women who center their lives around men and go out of their way to act dumb, silly, and childlike just to get male attention.
Edit: reading OP’s comments and she seems emotionally intelligent and supportive. This kind if person isn’t the type to judge a girl simply for being feminine and having a high pitched voice. I’m more than sure that OP knows and feels the difference between that and a pickme, again, given the emotional intelligence and maturity.
I’m more than sure that this is a complaint about girls who are all like “u-uwu congrats you did amazing, you’re so good at the game, i’m just a silly girl i can’t play as good” with men and then with you they mostly ignore you (or don’t keep the same energy overall, which means they force themselves to act like that for male validation). And not girls who are simply high pitched and speak like “yeey congrats team you did great! I liked your play there OP!”
This may be a record for the amount of times misogyny has been spelled wrong in varied forms in one Reddit comment lol
Aside from that, you’re doing a lot of work here in the comments that OP didn’t say or make clear at all in her post. She didn’t say anything about them switching their voices when men arrive in the lobby, etc.
Just a thought… I watch VladNCL (funny, straight, Russian guy with a deep voice who enjoys cross dressing in order to shock misogynistic little shits online) and he adopts an uwu anime like voice to help sell his female persona. It made me wonder if some trans women might adopt an exaggerated feminine voice in order to pass, and if they might behave a certain way in COD if they’re going through a phase of seeking male validation. I’m cis and had my male validation phase as a teenager, so I get it
Can't stand that type, in every single setting, and in games especially. They do make other lady gamers look bad, and it's one of the main things I can't stand them.
Yeah, I don’t look down on other women for how they choose to cope with the society we have. Just speaking in a high-pitched voice isn’t being a pick-me.
Women have it hard enough without other women policing the tone of their voices.. If literally all it takes is to have a certain type of feminine voice while chatting in lobby to annoy you, then yes you have internalized misogyny. That sounds a lot like the men who get annoyed when we just exist in a game and half the time they wouldn’t even know if it wasn’t for our voices…
Holy shit lol I have a girl in my clan before who would moan whenever she gets killed (which was a lot) and she says that she’s just like that and it’s just a mannerism like ???? And the boys like it so she just keeps going and i cant say shit abt it lol
That's the worst lmao, my partner and I were in this gaming group with a girl like that (my partner and I weren't even rlly close yet at this point) and this girl in our group would dramatically moan every time she sneezed and same as you, the men liked it but all the other women in the group absolutely knew what she was doing and she didn't do it when the men weren't there.
I'm glad you understood what kind of girl I was talking about and not the women with naturally high-pitched or feminine voices 😂 a lot of ppl think that's what I meant even though I specified that I wasn't talking about them 😅😂
Finding a certain person's voice annoying alone is not misogynistic, but it sounds like you're judging these women based on nothing except the way they speak, and *that's* what's annoying you so..
There's nothing "pick me" about speaking in a flirty way or a certain voice. Pick me girls are girls who put other women down to gain male approval and attention. They're "not like other girls" girls. Not girls who flirt in a high voice.
I actually have a close friend who has a pretty high voice. She's in her 30s and constantly gets accused of faking her own voice when it's just the way she speaks. Try not to be so quick to judge strangers who you know nothing about.
You're getting annoyed by the sound of women's voices, just like misogynistic guys do, so yes it is internalized misogyny. You have no idea if that's their real voice or not, I encounter women being bullied for the sound of their voice all the time online by sexist guys. It doesn't affect you in any way.
> You have no idea if that's their real voice or not
exactly! my best friend has a voice like that and it's because she's tiny and she gets this shit constantly despite the fact that she has zero interest in men. she gets shitty treatment over it doubly so because she's an asian woman and for some reason, people think women just speaking in their natural voice is a problem.
unless some random stranger has stated outright they're just faking a voice, who are you to assume this?
I'm a transfem and I went from getting bullied for sounding too girly at school (before I was out) to getting bullied for sounding like a "masculine woman" to getting bullied for sounding too "girly" and people really will look me straight in the face and tell me its not misogyny lmao
I don't think you have internalized misogyny. Women who force themselves to have overly highly pitched voices in male dominated games usually are fishing for attention from men. I think fishing for attention in general from both sexes is pathetic as hell. I agree with you that it's pick-me behavior. I understand that you're irritated that men are falling for it, but I see it differently. I don't think they are actually falling for it. They are fully aware what these women are doing, they like it so they choose to flirt. They basically want to be wanted. There's no trickery. Also you said that it affects how men see us, well, I think daily consumption of porn that men engage in are making much more of a difference in seeing women as dumb pick-mes than these interactions. So I think you should ignore it next time.
I don't really think so. I personally hate those fake voices, because I don't like that women seem to think they have to act like children to be appealing to men. That on-top of the fact they think they need to be appealing to men in the first place.
And nowadays it's bothered me even more honestly. After all these loli vtubers it just feels like thinly veiled infantilism. Which, obviously is gross to me if anyone is attracted to childlike behaviour. I just cannot stand women that undersell themselves for approval. It's so frustrating to see happen because you know they're actual adults with more to them than that.
> they think they need to be appealing to men in the first place
Women are allowed to want to appeal to men! It’s compatible with feminism and even independence to want to feel desired.
I agree with you that we have an infantilism problem but it’s upsetting that the annoyance is directed toward the woman instead of the man who’s literally attracted to emulations of children.
It’s analogous to shaming women who dress provocatively, even the ones who enjoy the male attention it brings. Who cares!
In OP’s post she mentions more frustration at the woman, the woman’s energy, the woman’s motivations, etc. before ever expressing annoyance at the men.
Women can want to, yeah I never wanna claim they can't. I meant emphasis on "need" to. It's normal to want to be appealing, I am not at all trying to say it isn't.
I understand, yeah. I personally am more annoyed by men who like women who act like kids, rather than being mad at the woman. But it's hard to not dislike it when a women undersells herself like that.
That's a fair point, OPs post was about the women being the part she had a problem with. Maybe she hasn't thought about it deeply, and didn't realise women only act like that because men like childlike attributes.
I’m a female gamer and if I ever see another women ‘pushing’ their gender in gaming, it pisses me off.
I have ‘miss’ in my name and that’s about it tbh.
I do think it’s because they appear to be of the pick me variety, but tbh, that is on me because I am heavily assuming their intentions based off of a payer profile and I realise how not okay that is.
What I’m trying to say here is, I understand how irrational and also rational this may feel and I have no other solution other than to focus on my own gameplay rather than what anyone else is doing.
I think it’s important to ask yourself if you’d judge a man as harshly as you’re judging the women you run into. Do you get annoyed and judgy if a man has a forced deep voice? Or if you do is it to the same level as you feel towards other women? If you don’t then it’s more than likely coming from a misogynistic place deep down. Even if you don’t I do think you should still try to remind yourself people doing things you find cringy aren’t actually hurting you so you should try to treat them as normal as possible.
Regardless I think the fact your questioning your own thoughts and reasons behind them is great and shows you have room for growth.
I love that you're trying to interrogate your feelings OP - on the sillier side, if you haven't watched it all yet there is a specific 30 Rock episode you should watch 😂
I think I understand where you're coming from, BUT, I think you should work on why exactly it annoys you and what you want out of that. Even if they are being obnoxious and flirting, what is it you think you'd want done about that? Do you want to confront them? Do you want to talk to them?
Personally, I have a "high" pitched, feminine voice. I'm also pretty tall, and if someone meets me on the phone or through voice chat and THEN meets me, they ***always*** go "Wow you are way taller than I thought" - because I sound, I guess, stereotypically petite. I've also ALWAYS been accused of "flirting" when I am just being friggin friendly. It's just how I am, I'm a social butterfly and always have been. I'm not putting on a voice, or doing anything intentionally, I'm just existing and chatting. So I want you to consider trying to hold off on the annoyance and question if it's truly aimed at men or if they're just being themselves, before you jump to judging them or thinking of them as a "pick me" or anything like that. Trust me, I do not want to be "picked" but have been accused as such just from my personality.
I feel like the concept of "it affects how x sees us" is a really common mindset that's only ever held by minorities/oppressed groups
Ez examples being things like queer men hating on those who are "too fem", trans people who speak out against neopronouns
We're trained to turn on each other and told we'll "only" be respected if we perform to the utmost standard, in a way, calling out the "pick me"s comes from a place of wanting to get picked, just in a different way
But ultimately we're individuals; some women just sound like that and even though you're *sure* they're faking it, you will be wrong sometimes. And for those who are faking it it doesn't matter, they are flirting and want to be seen (as women) as though they are flirting. You don't want men to see women as a whole as flirtatious, because you personally don't want to be seen as flirtatious. But for those women, they do want to be seen as such, and for them that assumption may not be a bad thing.
I think any time an oppressed person feels annoyance at their group for being a "bad example" it's always because they're afraid of the oppressors and their reaction, but ultimately it's out of our control whether we're treated as a monolith and sometimes the best thing you can do is be yourself and be unique. Because then SLOWLY men might realise that women aren't just {women} but actually a number of groups including {flirty women who sound flirty} {women who are not being flirty} and the elusive {woman who sounds flirty but is not actually flirting}
Also you're not a bad person for this, I think everybody experiences it, I'm non binary and for ages felt annoyed at super complex gender identities because I felt "I barely get accepted for mine and now it's going to be taken less seriously because I'm sharing an umbrella with a bigger target for transphobia". And sometimes it's true, men get flirted with in a cod lobby and assume that's the norm from there; during the gay marriage debate the "unsavoury" trans people got thrown under the bus by the conservatives of what comes "next". But ultimately we can't just make ourselves as small as possible to avoid being noticed
We all have internalized misogyny because we live within a sexiest system. And it pops up at weird times. I try to remind myself that, at the end of the day, even if a woman is doing something I disagree with/that bothers me, at least she has the freedom to make that choice, you know.
It is not misogyny to dislike women, it is misogyny to dislike them for being women. If what bothers you is specific behavior rather than gender, I feel like you are good.
Im just going to comment that e everyone has internalized misoginy. 99% at least.
If you think " oh no not me, Im impervious to this!" Then chances are even higher that you have internalized misoginy.
Internalized misoginy is not a yes/no situation. Where you are either a raging misoginist or a perfect pure crystal of feminism.
Everyone can come across a specific situation where their misoginy triggers, and OP realized that. Good for her. Sometimes it's just a matter of never questioning yourself about something because it didnt come up before.
I do the opposite. I belch loud af and try to act as manly as possible so I don’t give off those vibes lol. I am also just a Uber tomboy who has no issue saying I need to poop and that the squad should play a round with out me. I surprisingly met my bf like that on a video game and he didn’t get grossed out. He treated me like an equal and a team mate and later down road like a year later we started dating. He was my best friend before he is my partner so I just felt like an equal team mate and not like I was different just bc I have a vagina.
I guess what I’m getting at is that when women are one way with the girls and then act girly/flirty and make their voice higher in front of guys, it further separates men and women gamers. Like don’t you want to be treated as an equal? Most of us sure do! I feel when women do that, they further separate themselves from the rest of the gaming community, and males see them as some mythical waifu being instead of an equal. Imo, these girls further perpetuate the stereotypes of “girl gamers” and not just being the average “gamer.” That’s low key why I feel we are treated different, and if a girl is just vibing on a game, (deeper voice or not), there is the stigma that we just sit in the house with miniskirts and cat ear headsets, looking for a carry and the next discord mod to buy them a 45 dollar bundle of a pink anime skin.
I am a girl who likes to game. This is a subreddit devoted to that. I seriously don’t even get why you said that. I didn’t know that being a tomboy is being a pick me dude if that’s what you’re getting at. This really bummed me out bro. Just thought I was relating to people here…
What does your comment even mean? Why are they not allowed to be tomboy and loud and this and that? Is that cause it's outside of the 'norm' for most women? Is OP only allowed to be feminine and girly, to be okay? Honey, you got some internalized misogyny on your hands. You really thought though, huh.
??? The problem isnt being a tomboy, the problem is basically blaming feminine women for "creating barriers" and distancing themselves from men in the gaming community by just being themselves
You completely missed the point. Specifically acting a certain way to impress men is my issue. If you already girly and you act like yourself, hell yeah!! If you are the stereotypical tomboy and you act as such I feel like that’s great too! I’m just saying what OP said which I whole heartedly agree with and just elaborating on my opinion it as well.
Hell I’m wearing a dress and I full face now! But am I still gonna talk in my deep ass vaper’s voice on open mic bc I’m not trying to cater to a random guy who prolly already thinks if we lose a game it’s because I’m a girl.
On the other end of the spectrum, if a guy is bullying you for your high pitched natural voice, you should tell him to fuck off since you are being yourself!! We are not all the same, we have our own personalities just like guys who game do! But the term “gamer boy” doesn’t exist because they aren’t stereotyped the same way we are. (Think how men are just called “streamers” not “male streamers” but a girl who streams is called a “female streamer.”) We shouldn’t be put in a bubble because we are women! Hell, if anything the girls who purposefully perpetuate the stereotypes are sort of misogynistic and make it harder for the rest of women who have high pitched feminine voices who just want to play a damn game without giving a flying fck about seeming cute in front of guys.
That’s what I’m trying to get at. Sorry if I’m bad at explaining but I have had very unpleasant experiences with guy randos bc they assume I’m gaming with my duo (my boyfriend) for a carry and not because I enjoy the game like everyone else on the team! Those are the stereotypes I hate, so when one is purposely using an uwu voice and acting cutesy to cater to men’s fantasies of “gamer girls” or to make yourself more desirable as a team mate, it is just an ick for me. Just like what OP said…
**The reason it bothers me when men start flirting or whatever is because internally I'm just like "Really? This kinda stuff still works on y'all?" It's more just me loosing faith men and how they do not evolve to see through the pick me energy lol**
yep. sounds like misogny to me. bitter because you didnt get the attention from those men, since you arent "like the other high pitched fake girls"
Idk why people are being harsh, I mean, you're doing the first step of fighting internalized misogyny by stopping and addressing your internal bias.
To answer your question, I'd say it's internalized misogyny. I think it's totally fair to critique the disproportionate sexualization that female gamers get. I mean it's also fine to hate certain voices (I've had both men and women annoy me with the amount of excess vocal fry in their voice) But it should be done without putting down female gamers who are meeting that standard, especially if you don't know if that's just how they sound, or if they are even aware of it.
Having our voices go higher at work or around strangers is a natural defense mechanism a lot of us (myself included) don't even notice we do unless we pay attention. Idk you perosnally, of course, but it might be worth observing next time you're at work or talking to strangers if your voice changes from how you naturally talk around ppl you know well.
Sometimes, when I'm nervous, I come off as flirty (twirling my hair, having a high-pitched laugh) when I have 0 romantic interest or attraction to the person I'm talking to.
Unless these girls are actively throwing you or other women under the bus to impress these men, they aren't being a "pick me."
To me it reads like just generally disappointment in people. Have you reached a new life stage? I find that as I’ve got older some younger behaviours bother me more. I have to remind myself that I was probably like that at their age.
I personally not only get higher with my pitch unintentionally whenever I get emotional, but it also annoys me that I do it 😹 I don’t think it’s internalized misogyny to find a sound annoying, but I do think it’s a good opportunity to breathe through the discomfort and learn from it.
Your adversion could be due to some kind of past trauma in general (for example, my son whining sometimes bothers me a LOT more than it should. This could be because I was told whining is bad as a kid and might have got punished for it, even through it’s perfectly age appropriate), but honestly it could be totally unintentional on their ends!
You’re not obligated to play with anybody that you don’t want to, of course :) Some people DO do that kind of thing intentionally and purposefully, so it really depends on the woman’s character as a whole honestly!
On top of that, women are constantly fucking pressured so hard to always be desirable that some of us put up that persona almost for straight up safety purposes!! It can feel to some like the only way to be accepted by others and what not. It’s actually a good reason for US as women to be very authentic in spaces like video games- it can help break the stigma of how women are “supposed” to be! ♡︎
Idk I think people who say its internalized misogyny are is a bit too much...
We all know that there is a women who just play games to be special or to flirt. It happens it's not like we've never seen them, and they usually adopt that voice.
OP didn't say 'when I hear a high pitched voice' only she also said when they 'adopt pick me behavior'. I dont think it's misogynistic it's just something that bothers you and you have the right to be bothered without being called misogynistic. Pick me girls usually make men act like weirdos all over again and that affects you, these are acceptable feelings don't feel bad because you are bothered you're not a saint and neither is any of us not all women are perfect and victims some of us really fake the high pitched voice and 'help me plz im bad at the game haha' to get the attention it's not like we've never seen it
And I'm fairly sure I'm not misogynistic if anything I'm actually trying to not hate men because it's something that's I've been feeling for a while and I dont want it
There could also be a feeling of general resentment that women “need” to do these things to get attention from men. Like men need us to be as performatively feminine as possible before we’re even seen as women. Perfect hair, nails, & makeup (“natural” makeup only, even though it still takes two hours); baby voice; hourglass shape; etc.
I don’t blame anyone for doing those things and I think half the time they do it more for themselves than for men (it’s fun to be feminine!), but I understand feeling frustrated that there’s this high bar that we feel pressured to meet. It takes an incredible amount of time, money, and work to have that look, and not all of us are cut out for it or interested. Sometimes with men it feels like meeting that bar is a requirement, and that if we don’t, we’re not worthy of their affection. (Luckily, all my partners have loved my low-effort-femininity.)
I believe in you and your intentions, OP!
Also OP: reminder that a lot of the girls in the comments have internalized mysoginy themselves and feel attacked by this post and get mad. Not because you’re wrong, you properly explained your point and I immediatly understood the type of girl you were refering to. They either agree with it or are a pickme themselves.
Not everything revolves around them. You just have a high pitched voice? Ok, this isn’t about you, yet you complain and make OP feel bad when she clearly wasn’t talking about you. Feels a lot to me like “but not all men! I don’t do that”. This isn’t about high pitched voice women, this isn’t about women who act cute because that is simply who they are (all valid, yall are wonderful and shouldnt feel bad about being yourselves) This is AGAIN about women who force themselves into being something they’re not for male validation. Which yes, it’s annoying as it contributes to our problems by feeding into the stereotypes.
I wouldn’t take the opinion of some of those women seriously, not without some good arguments (which there have been none so far that I’ve read). Just look at how many of them missed the point of women FORCING themselves into MYSOGINISTIC STEREOTYPES (whiny feminine voice, acting like a kid) for MALE VALIDATION.
Go on with the downvotes I guess, I don’t care about the opinions of girls with “cute golden retriever gamer boyfriends” who say homophobic slurs every 2 minutes on discord with their buddies.
Your other comment made good points, I don't know why you then made this one to generalise & put down women who disagree with you, it shouldn't be that deep, people are going to have a variety of opinions that may differ from yours on any discussion, that's just life
> They either agree with it or are a pickme themselves.
>I don’t care about the opinions of girls with “cute golden retriever gamer boyfriends” who say homophobic slurs every 2 minutes on discord with their buddies.
Yikes. Do you hear yourself? "Conform with my opinion or you are the problem." This isn't how we win anything hun.
Not that it should matter in this context, but I'll say I am a 37 year old happily single trans woman. I'm alt AF, have a side shave, and my voice barely clears typical feminine range. I not only disagree with your opinions, I think your needless incendiary ultimatums that mandate conformity to your opinions are significantly more problematic than any woman choosing to act cutesy.
And keep in mind, I sit the closest to the guillotine of women's rights.
Most definitely internalized misogyny.
There’s no reason to assume things about a woman you don’t know anything about, if you’re assuming negative things based on xyz it’s probably misogyny.
No, I get it. It’s annoying as hell and I can’t stand girls or guys forcing fake voices because it’s always so obvious (guys going to the opposite end and trying to force a “groggy” voice).
I don't know what it's worth, but women trying to be sexy in voice chat just irk me. It feels manipulative, and I *hate* being manipulated.
Not to mention, like you said, it sets a bad example.
Sounds like you might. I don’t see what the problem is with how anyone chooses to interact with others online unless it’s abusive/bullying. If they want to be cutesy cringe or whatever that’s up to them, it doesn’t really affect you. I make liberal use of my mute button when something bothers me, maybe do the same?
maybe it's the southern in me, but i always get annoyed when anyone does **intentional** "dumb"/"anime" sounding voices. maybe it's also that i'm """"""""old"""""""" and jaded, but i understand how you feel. i don't necessarily hate these women, but i do cringe. i only begin to hate them when they purposefully start sending hate my way, which is very "pick me" behavior. now the people who just naturally sound like that, it's different. i have a naturally higher pitched voice, often i'm called a child online but it's not something i can help. i feel like it's always easy to spot the person doing such voices intentionally, and all i try to think about is the fact that; maybe not tomorrow, maybe not even next year, but one day that person will lay awake in bed at 3 am cringing at themselves. for most gamer girls, this whole anime voice thing is just a phase that they'll grow out of. just push through the games with people that annoy you and go next. block them if they start hating on you, or just mute them if it annoys you that much.
My voice is naturally high-pitched so I am slightly triggered lol. I’m just trying to game lol, I can’t help that my voice sounds the way it does.
I exclusively only play games with friends now which limits me from meeting new people but shields me from toxicity from weirdo guys. I broke my rule a few months ago and we decided to join a public lobby. I was happy to hear 2 girls in the lobby and I said something to the friends I joined with. The second they heard my voice, one girl said “sorry the girls that play this game are annoying” and immediately kicked me. She told my friends she kicked me because a girl in a game before had a voice she didn’t like and she just didn’t want to play with other women. So now I’m back to gaming with only friends lol.
I think you're conflating any attention seeking behavior with being a pick me, when being a pick-me as other people have described involves throwing other women under the bus to gain that attention or status. So I think to some degree your annoyance with women who speak like that just in lobbies (to be flirty/get attention or whatever) is internalized misogyny, and to blame misogynistic views on women is also internalized misogyny.
You're faulting the wrong people, it would be akin to saying because X race has people that behave in X way, that's why racists have a bad view of them! well no, because the racists were racist and they were gonna be racist anyways regardless and that's an example of internalized racism.
But I do think that what you're describing with the weird dramatic childlike high pitched anime voices (v-tubers or otherwise who are basically pedo-baiting) are exploitative and nasty to get views and money
I don't get annoyed because most of the time it's a response to having to tiptoe around people, especially men, our whole lives. If women don't put on the "kindergarten teacher" voice, we're seen as mean, rude, unhappy, sad, a slew of other things. I'm sure some women do it to sound sexy, but whatevs. And some women just have high voices. Nothing wrong with that, women shouldn't have to hide their femininity or their voices in order to be taken seriously. And some women just like to talk like that. Basically, Idc how they wanna present themselves, or whether they have a high voice, a valley girl voice, or anything like that. I'm annoyed at men who go on and get emotional over women being in the game though
Seems like you have a victim blaming thing going on. Sounds like you get annoyed. The game lobby gets full of flirting and all that other stuff that isn't about the game. Maybe you think it's perpetuating a stereotype of gamer girls, but I can only assume. In the end, what's more annoying a woman who has a cute voice getting attention or the men who just open their mouth and think the woman's there for them to make a move at?
I have a higher voice with a hint of valley girl (california born and raised), I hate when guys start trying to get my attention or flirt. But I would hope a fellow woman wouldn't be annoyed at me for existence and more at the men who feel entitled to it.
After OPs edit: I get it, but at the same time I do voices for fun all the time, it's my whole youtube channel. So I would say just don't let it get to you, they're doing a voice and having fun. It doesn't effect your life outside of a game, which in 20 minutes you'll be in a new lobby. I don't think it's mysgonistic to be annoyed by someone preforming for male attention, but I also think at that point you're letting something so mundane get on your nerves that energy is better spent elsewhere.
Also why the down votes for giving input when OP asked for some? 😥
I sort of feel like I’d have to hear it to know, but if it’s deliberate (and it sounds like it is) then I bet I’d feel the same way as you, and kind of have the same question as you 😬
IMO, it is internalized misogyny. For myself, my whole life my mother told me how manly and gross I sound, and so when I’m on the phone (or in this case VC in games) with people I don’t know well/am not comfortable with yet, I tend to mask my voice with a more feminine voice, unintentionally, out of anxiousness. Due to this, I’ve been bullied by other women while playing games. I feel like they were the “pick me”s who had another woman encroaching into their territory when they’re just “one of the guys” and “not like other girls” 😑
I'm not the sexy but the "cute" type. To the point that guys called my sneezing or hiccups so cute. One time, the hiccup really hurt, and this one guy would just naww\~ the whole time till i muted me.
At least for me, it's not intentional. I'm also the girl who gots asked a lot if she is a young boy, because even now in my 30 i sound very young. To a point that i don't talked much and when, i would always try to sound ... huskyer(?).
But trough therapy and just life, i stopped with this and just enjoy gaming. And yeah, i'm the girl who likes to make overexerted naws\~, and nuuuu\~ and such stuff. I also often just say words i read to me, or when i see a cat i say meow.
But i'm really not doing this to bring attention to me, often times when people ask what i said i often don't remember what i even said xD.
I also have this only online, as i'm super shy offline and my talking is better, but i like to stay in the background \^\^''. It's easier for me, to be my real self when i'm online behind a pc, if this makes sense to you.
So pls, don't hate me\~
But i absolutly understand why you find this kind of behaviour annoying. It's just really not to grab attention of the guys.
Well, at least not any guy. I did this for my exfriend sometimes, because i knew i would get his attention this way xD.
I'll tell you what, as a woman who plays a lot of cod and has encountered plenty of other women playing cod. I've never had this thought before.
This is definitely some shenanigans on your part.
Men/boys constantly behave badly in online video games but that isn't seen to reflect on them as a whole. I'd maybe think about that when worrying about whether these people annoying you are making women 'look bad' or not. People can exist as they are, annoying or not, not everyone has the same intentions and these encounters will not stop.
Your edit to your post doesn't absolve you because I know for a fact that you're not correctly judging every single woman's voice, every single time. You have a complex and you think you know what voice is "real" and what voice is "fake" but you are simply judging women in a negative way and picking at them just like you accuse guys of doing. This is why I say girls can be SOME of the most toxic people I've run into while gaming because they think something about another girl instantly and judge her harsher than the dudes in the party and then completely shut her out or shut off the idea of even giving her a chance...it's like they're actually looking for a reason to hate on or shit on the other girl.I literally have to jump through hoops just to get some girls to believe that I'm not a threat to them or I'm not some idea that they have made up in their head about girl gamers and its really frustrating when all I want to do is get to know them and have fun in this game.
I mean it's one thing to talk about not liking what certain girls talk about because the topics they talk about are designed for male attention and pandering to dudes, but it's something else to just pick on how they naturally talk and then assume simply because of how they sound that you know their whole life story and exactly the type of girl they are so now you're going to change how you treat and view them in a gaming setting in a negative way....this is literally the same thing some toxic men do.
Yeah they're annoying as hell. I play OW and whenever i see a mercy main with a stereotypical feminine name and she joins vc and you hear a fake cutesy voice. I report them for throwing lmao
Yes. You absolutely have internalized misogyny. It's none of your business what other people do or how they choose to navigate a patriarchal world. Pick me's do not reflect badly on you and it's shitty of you to think otherwise. (there are other reasons to be critical of pickme's but usually not simple non-political existence) Not to mention that despite your insistence they're specifically putting this voice on. What if they're not? A lot of women subconsciously raise their pitch when they're around someone they find attractive. At the end of the day you're judgement here is wildly bias prone and that's not great either.
I am someone who has a pretty high pitched voice - funnily enough, I thought I had a man voice, based on how I heard it in my head, until I heard my voice on a voicemail many many years ago and was like Omg is that me?!?!
I’m curious how you’re able to tell for certainty who is and isn’t faking a high pitched voice?
I will be honest, whenever I meet someone in-game and dare to use comms around them, regardless of gender, I would be glad if they don't insult me or act weird around me. That is the only thing that I get concerned about
That being said, I might have seen similar behavior to the one you mentioned, and I just... don't care. I would only be glad to not be a part of it.
Those women who do this stuff are their own persons, and their actions only represent them. If someone can't comprehend that simple fact, and judges me based on someone else's actions, it really is not on me, it is on them.
Now, this behavior is not only exclusive to women. I hear men in-game deepen their voices to the point where they sound out of breath when they hear a woman presence. I think it is just... some humans... being...some humans?
OP, I'm going to veer off course from most of the comments here and share a video of a comedy sketch that literally changed my life when I first saw it years ago when I was a kid. It's from the Canadian comedy troupe, The Kids in the Hall, and it's called "Lonely Sarcastic Guy": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziH9St7ajuw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziH9St7ajuw)
The TL;DW is that this guy seems like a real asshole, but it turns out his unrelenting sarcasm is due to a speech impediment that just makes him sound like that.
Honest to God, I think of that sketch multiple times a year, whenever I encounter someone who has an off-putting tone of voice (whiny, arrogant, weirdly aggressive, etc.) -- I basically mentally strip away their tone of voice and focus only on the actual words they're saying, and if their actual words aren't themselves off-putting, I figure they're like Sarcastic Guy and aren't intentionally meaning to sound like that.
Like, in your case, all you know about these girls/women is what they say and how they sound over com. They could have any reason at all for sounding the way they do, but you don't know them well enough to identify that reason -- maybe it's legit how they talk 24/7, maybe it's a deliberate fake voice to flirt, maybe it's a defense mechanism they can't control...whatever. If what they're saying wouldn't be annoying if they spoke in a different tone of voice, personally I would give them the benefit of the doubt and refrain from speculating about their motive for sounding like that and chalk it up to them being like Sarcastic Guy.
I deal with this too. I would never say anything to someone to hurt their feelings, I simply just play the game and go on my way to the next teammates.
I think for me it’s just a different wavelength kind of thing. We don’t click and I’m okay with that. I just find high pitched voices performative, or like the person isn’t relaxed in some way. I usually just mute them if they become to much. Not everyone’s gonna like me for little things too. It’s just human.
When I get nervous my pitch goes up. I am nervous gaming online so that is something to consider. I am not trying to flirt with anyone, I just want to game.
Nah, I'm the same way, my voice gets higher when I'm stressed in games too.
Like I said in the post, I'm not talking about high pitched or feminine voices.
There's a clear difference between that and when it's forced to sound all anime-like and "uwu I am so bad at this game guys plz help me 🥺" & moaning into the mic but they turn that off when the men aren't around.
Flirting is fine, I don't care abt that but I just find that type to be excessive and annoying to hear.
Don't get me wrong, I never say anything about it, I just personally find it annoying and cringe is all. Never say anything to make them feel bad about it or anything tho, I never even acknowledge it out loud.
I knew a girl in a group I was in for a while who would dramatically moan like an anime girl every time she sneezed but she didn't do that when it was just us girls.
She was cool and chill to hang w but just only when the men weren't in the chat.
Again, we never said anything to her about it though.
Ah alright, yeah I agree with you about the weird sound effects some people do. It's not just women for me it could be anybody. Moaning sounds, people eating their mic, screaming going on, people blasting their music through the mic. I mute all these people as soon as the game will let me.
Ugh same, cannot stand chewing in the mic and honestly even more annoying when they blast music.
I think the playing music thing is extremely rude and inconsiderate, like we probably don't want to hear or don't like their music for 1 and secondly we would like to hear ourselves talk to each other over their obnoxious music lmao
It's very overstimulating for me to try to understand what someone else is saying while some bad music is playing at the same volume as their voice 😭😂😂
maybe I'm just prude, but I find intentionally sexual voices/remarks/sounds (like the "sexy-whiny" voice & moans OP mentioned) in-game to be a bit rude, regardless of who the offender is. If it's an open lobby, couldn't there be minors present? even if it's all adults playing, isn't the main reason everyone is there to play the game?
as for getting annoyed at the men who start to flirt with people in these instances - I think it can be annoying when people respond positively to another person objectifying themselves! and the voice you're talking about sounds like self-objectification to me 🤷♀️
we all have at least a little internalized misogyny to work through, at any rate
A pick me girl is someone who puts other girls down to get male attention imo. Also Ive been told I have a high pitched voice, and have gotten shit all my life about it online. Irl usually just some light fun teasing, but on Vc people are rude af. Just some food for thought next time you come across someone with a high pitched voice.
Edit: didn’t see your edit on your post, my bad.
I think that I upset older women like this when I was younger around 15-21, to be honest, because back then I liked the attention from men. I also have that high-pitched squealy kind of voice. It's embarrassing when I look back, and a lot of these girls you're talking about are probably going to be embarrassed later on too, even though they're just exploring a subjective aspect of their identity expression.
Nowadays, I am 30 and in order to avoid harassment, I hide my gender. In chats, I basically talk like a dude, finding any reason to not join voice calls. I had a lot more fun back then, but now I would kill to have a community of women in the game I play!
Similar to you, I have issues with a lot of the women I meet in games, but not for the same reason. I am wary of women in online games who will ignore other women and express extreme toxicity towards other women gamers, which I find a lot more common in my gaming communities. To me, this signifies certain self-hating behaviors and possibly a desire to receive most of the male attention.
OP, I sometimes have these moments too. I'm almost 30 and I don't have enough patience for those "pick me girls with high pitched voice" that are between 16-22. But then I remember I had my Not Like Other Girls phase for a long time when I was much younger. I tell myself that it's just a phase for those girls and they're just trying to explore themselves and their lives.
True and I do feel much sympathy for them because saying you're "not like other girls" all it really means is that those women don't like being looked at the way that men look at women in general. No one likes being looked at like that. All they're really saying is that they want to be viewed as an individual rather than an object or any of the other nasty things that are said about women.
It’s human to have these moments as women living under patriarchy since we’re conditioned to see other women as competition, and it’s easier to be upset with the way they behave than it is to unlearn all the harmful and misogynistic messaging. However, it’s important to remember that nothing breeds a “not like other girls” or “pick me” mentality like isolation from other women. Meeting these girls with kindness and solidarity in male-dominated gaming spaces will go a lot further to help them reflect and deconstruct than meeting them with antagonism and frustration, which will most likely reaffirm their worldview.
Ahh.. yes and no.. lots of "not like other girls" definitely are sexist against other girls/women. Thats kind of the point. They buy in to the rhetoric and really think theyre different because it gets them attention. *source:reformed "not like other girls" woman, who now has many women friends and coaches girls teams and encourages collaboration vs putting down other girls.
[удалено]
I still make my voice softer on online games because my actual voice sounds like a 13 year old boy haha
Same here! Learning to mask is a journey man
Same, here. I love this comment. It’s remembering how we did the same thing because that’s the insidious ways of the patriarchy. It helps me to remember that they’ll likely experience the same things that we went through that made us change for the better and become more supportive of women (and ourselves).
Oh! I should’ve also added: you are completely valid in your feelings though, in my opinion. It’s really hard when you know it’s a behaviour that oppresses women and helps men. So, I think it would be odd if you didn’t feel the frustration
I have this kind of voice. I tried to change it to be less feminine and more gamer bro but it's just not me. I'm pretty good at gaming and have zero interest in attracting anyone other than my boyfriend. I think judging people based on their voice may be some internalized misogyny and it's awesome that you're recognizing that. Everyone has things they make judgements off of but recognizing them and deciding whether it's valid or not is very important.
yo same. i have the highest pitch babiest voice :-( even worse when i put on my polite business voice. it's not like i want to sound like this lol. i agree, it's internalized misogyny and assuming everyone who sounds like that is a "pick me" is so cruel. pick me is based off behavior, not sound of voice.
My best friend from high school has a naturally high pitched voice and people gave her hell throughout her life to "undo" her voice :/ She stopped watching Anime after getting bullied that people thought she started to sound like that because of "too much Anime." I do not even like Anime or support it, but that's insane to me. I never thought twice about her voice, as it sounds like a normal person's voice to me, but whenever we play with other people they often ask me "is that her real voice?" I hate that she has to go through this BS for speaking in her natural voice.
I’ll game with you
Whatchu play?? I play Rocket League and OW2 for multiplayer :)
I play cod , I’ve never played rocket league
Aw darn I've never really played COD.
Do you play Fortnite ?
Unfortunately not
I hate the term “pick me” used in this context. “Pick me” is supposed to mean women who embody a “pick me [over her]” mindset. If she’s not actively putting down other women, she’s just flirting. I’d start by introspection on this: why does it bother you that it works?
As a SoCal girl I am triggered lol. I just sound like that, man. If I had a penny for everytime I was called a flirt, just because of the way I sound, I’d at least have a dollar. The Valley Girl in me is here to stay, much to the dismay of OP, lol.
I accept that OP is annoyed by the idea of women who are doing it unnaturally and intentionally, not the people who just actually talk like that. But even if we only talk about the women who are faking that voice: who cares! She’s flirting. Everyone flirts.
Hey, Gwen Stefani has that kind of voice and it works for her!
Gwen is the queen, this is so reassuring lol.
Yeah, she's pretty kickass - You should feel reassured!💜
I mean, my opinion? Yes, you do have internal issues to sort out. Maybe they legit sound like that? But even if it is performative, why would that annoy you? It isn't affecting you, yet it's compelling you to have specific judgments of these women. That certainly seems like some sort of unresolved internal stuff.
I think you're right. And it does make me sad genuinely, I don't want to be judgy, I wanna support woman. I'll need to work on this, thank you. And like I said in the post, the reason I felt annoyed was because it doesn't affect me really in the moment but I feel that "pick me girls" really put a bad look on woman as a whole and it really affects the way that men see us and the way they *think* we should behave. But you're right, I'll work on this problem with myself. I appreciate you sharing your opinion on a kind way. I apologize for being bitter 😅 that's very ugly of me. I'll work on this
You're fine. Hell, you acknowledged you may be in the wrong and were seeking advice. That's like... most of the battle lol. Just bear in mind, the prevailing patriarchy has spared no expense to position all forms of media to encourage women to turn on one another. It's deeply, deeply ingrained and has been taught to women for decades. Just keep questioning and reflecting. For example, "why should it matter if this impacts how men look at women?" If that's the root of your frustration, realize it's still pandering to the patriarchy with the expectation that women's behavior needs to garnish men's approval, but men can act however they please. Challenge these thoughts and feelings. Women can also act however they please, and do not need to answer to - nor meet the expectations of - any man, should they not have a fuck to give over it. And most of all, be kind with yourself and recognize like I said, you're already taking the hardest step in challenging yourself. You will shatter through these constraints, I know it. Much love. ❤
Wow, thank you so much. I really needed to hear all of that. And that point you made about how I shouldn't care if it affects how men see us, that really got to me. I feel like what you just said alone really helped me view it differently and helped me lift a huge weight with realization. Also thank you so much for your kind words and reminding me to be kind to myself because I was starting to feel like a total shitbag, because I don't ever want to be the kind of woman that brings other women down like this. My frustrations came from feelings of injustices from men and I was turning that back on other women regardless of my intentions. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to kindly help a stranger in their personal issues, this helped a lot and I'm grateful to you for your kind words.
Well, I teared up. I'm so glad I could help at all. Sometimes that feels so difficult to accomplish on the internet! We ladies really do need to stick together and I try to do what I can in that regard. So this back and forth really made my day.
I couldn't love this reply more. Every word you wrote just knocked it clean out of the park. PREACH it girl yes!!
Yeah I think something to remember is all women don't have to think and act alike. You may think how the people you're describing act looks bad for all women, but we don't need to be judged on the actions of other women. It shouldn't matter what anyone else does because we're all unique individuals living our own lives. And we certainly don't need to judge each other. Totally fine to not necessarily want to be besties, but I don't get why it would spark anything more than mild annoyance. All that said, asking this question was the right way to go about this and you have nothing to feel bad about. Your reaction was the misogynistic part you've been taught by society, but you questioning that was who you are. Working on yourself and questioning what's behind your reactions are never bad ❤️ so don't beat yourself up about it
[удалено]
I'm so sorry to hear that 🖤 I'm sorry for contributing to the toxicity. I would never hate you for your voice at all. To be clear I was not referencing women with naturally petite voices, I've had many woman friends like this. Still though I'm sorry for this... That's not what I intended
No offence but they way you talk about this sound kind of “not like the other girls” in and of it’s self. Like women have enough issues without making assumptions about wether someone is being performative in their femininity or putting each other down for being too feminine or non feminine enough. Like maybe these people are playing it up so they won’t get harassed as much. It could be a protective thing because of how toxic these types of games can be to women.
People tell me I talk like a valley girl but thats just how I talk. One of my friends has a super high pitched voice that both men AND women in our competitive games mock and make fun of in vc, but that’s just how she speaks as well and we both can’t change that. I agree with you and no flame to OP at all, but I also think OP has some internal issues. I don’t think it should be bothering her that much, especially outside of gaming as she mentioned. Also someone is a pick me if they put other women down or make fun of other women, which I’ve found more women with “non high pitched” voices seem to do based on my own personal experience weirdly enough. I may talk like a valley girl and my friend may have a high pitched voice, but we never shit talk women in our games and only defend women
Idk, I feel like most of the time you can tell when it's forced or not, I doubt op means all high pitched voices
Enablers affect everyone. A woman acting like that and enabling patriarchal stereotypes DOES affect her, and me, and you. Guys see women like that and they set their opinions in stone and are harder to educate since they will say “yes but these girls-“ In my opinion? That was a valid response to those pick me girls and OP isn’t mysoginistic at all. Being annoyed at mysoginy isn’t mysoginistic.
women with high pitched voices or those who speak like "valley girls" are not enabling misogynists and it's wild to imply that these women, who are more likely to be victims of misogyny than anything resembling enablers, are somehow enabling misogynist men by existing. eta: changed some wording for clarity
Youre overlooking the fact that a voice type doesnt make someone a pick me.
It’s misogynistic to blame women for a problem created by men. I empathize with your perspective after reading your comments, but women are not the source of the issue and that’s why it’s misguided to focus on your issues with their behavior rather than the overarching issue of a society that hates women. What’s inspired them to pander to men? Why do they feel they need to put on affectations, to “water the roots” of the problem, as you put it? They’ve been taught that their worth is measured by their ability to appeal to men, by their sexiness or cuteness, by their external presentation. I really do understand where you’re coming from, I used to feel similarly at the beginning of my journey with feminist studies. But I encourage you to focus your energy on the actual problem and meet women you’d call “pick mes” with empathy, as I can guarantee it’s more likely to get them to reflect anyway. It was a hard but valuable lesson for me that **you cannot tell other women how to cope under patriarchy.**
those men hate women already, even if there didn't exist any pick me, girls, they would still act this way and makeup pick-me-girls
I think what you are overlooking is that the men that would be swayed by this behavior are ALREADY misogynists and have a terrible opinion of women. They're going to be so regardless if any one woman is or isn't acting flirtatious or whatever. A woman shouldn't have to feel she is bearing the burden of the entirety of men's opinions just because she feels like being flirty. Maybe she's felt like shit and just wants to feel some attention. That's her prerogative. So the point is you can't concern yourself that a behavior is eroding men's opinions of women when they're already going to have those opinions no matter how we act. But really more to the point, we should get past caring what they think, or operating under the intent to "earn" men having a higher opinion of women. The fight should be that we don't require their approval, and really trying to tear down women for not acting in accordance with earning the menfolk's respect is ironically the same problematic circumstances of patriarchal influence.
1) Opinions can change, but it’s hard to change someone’s opinion when they have “proof” that their opinions are right. It’s one thing to tell a mysoginistic guy (who is like that cause he was raised like that and wasnt educated, but can learn) something and him not having any arguments, it’s another to say “women aren’t always submissive or girly” and them saying “well every woman I’ve played with was like that, you’re one girl against the dozens I’ve met that went against what I believed and saw so far” And yes, I agree that our individual behavior isn’t an excuse for those opinions. I never said this behavior is the cause. But it does make things harder and contributes to the problem. Those girls aren’t the root of the problem, but they’re watering the roots. 2) I fully agree that we shouldn’t give a fuck about what men think about us. But yet, here you are enabling this pickme mentality, of girls forcing themselves to sound more feminine and act more feminine for male attention. You can’t say that yet enable those girls. The type of girls that raise their voices 3 octave higher and act all cute around guys, but when its just her and other girls she speaks like a normal person and doesn’t force herself saying “uwu” every 2 minutes. So we shouldn’t care what men think, but we are okay of women who force themselves into acting stereotypically feminine for male attention?
I feel like a lot of assumptions are being made here, which correlates to the entire thing this thread started with - internalized bias. What proof can we point to that these behaviors "make things harder" for women to earn respect they shouldn't be concerned with earning? What proof do we have that any number of these women don't just sound this way naturally, or that that's just their regular personality? We say they must be forcing it, which is an unfair bias. Why are we making women who feel like acting cute out to be automatically enemies of other women? Why do we need to position this that women are forcing themselves to act this way when they're CHOOSING to because they want to And again, why are we deluding ourselves that misogynistic men will not simply lie and/or invent "evidence" to support their hatred of women in perpetuity? Why isn't the focus "we need to remedy how men judge us" and instead always has to be "we need to ostracize women that don't fit into the mould to meekly gain respect of shitty men"? Other women are not the enemy. We really need to place the crosshairs on the right target. Or aren't we the REAL "pick me" girls if we're ready to throw any woman under the bus that doesn't act the way we feel is correct to attempt to guide men's sensibilities?
On the flip side, what it sounds like is that you want all women to behave the way YOU think they should behave. It's really hypocritical that a lot of the feminism movement is about enabling women to feel free being how THEY THEMSELVES want to be, yet a lot of the same people advocating for this get mad at other women for not acting in the specific way they personally think a woman should be behaving. It's toxic all the same. You know what world I want to live in? One where any man or woman can, as long as they're not hurting anybody else, can be happy and accepted being themselves without being judged. What do I care if another a woman is *happy* choosing to be a tradwife? It's not my jam but good for her! You do you girl! On the flip side, what do I care if a guy *wants* a tradwife and they're happy together? I wouldn't date a guy like that, but great for them if they find someone with shared life goals! ^ Take that idea but apply it to all other similar situations, including this discussion about how someone chooses to act and sound. The goal is not to slap a new set of criteria for what it means to be an acceptable person, it's to create a world free of judgment where everyone is accepted even if someone else's choices and lifestyle are not your cup of tea. If I see a woman who wants to be a tradwife get a husband who wants to be the sole provider and let her do that, I'd be happy for them both because they've found happiness and are living true to themselves - not judge her and get upset that she's "ruining it for women because now men will think we all want to be like that, how dare she". Just let other people be happy and focus on your own happiness. If we all did that the world would be a much more accepting and better place to be for everybody.
Just so you know, I don’t think “tradwife” is a simple synonym for “housewife” — I’ve exclusively seen it used to refer to women who are both living that role *and* enforcing it on others and perpetuating antifeminism, and there’s definitely something we should all take issue with, no matter how happy it makes them personally.
My bad then if that's actually part of what being a tradwife is. As far as I knew and from all the ones I've seen calling themselves tradwives online it seems like it's simply taking joy in and being proud of taking on the traditional housewife role (especially in a time when their choice is often frowned upon by many). I've never seen them push their views on others and the ones I've seen are very clear that this is their own personal choice and basically just give tips on house cleaning, decorating, preparing food, etc. If they're enforcing their lifestyle on other people then I agree it's not ok.
What did those women do that was misogynist?
Random, but 30 Rock has an episode about this EXACT issue that has stuck with me. I can't remember if this sub allows youtube links? I'll post a link to the clip I'm thinking of in the comments unless mods ask me to take it down. I can relate to feeling judgemental of/ annoyed by that type of behavior and I remember watching this episode years ago and feeling surprisingly challenged by it.
I love that episode! I didn’t click the link but I 100% know what episode you mean.
https://youtu.be/rUFTUG_XeUc?si=Pn1lGeeEn7bdn8kM
A "pick-me girl" is not a girl who is seductive in a masculine environment and, honestly, I think the term is being misused. Being flirty and sexy is OK and there's nothing wrong with wanting to feel desired. A pick-me girl is a girl that throws other women under the bus just to get male attention. The kind of girl who loves bragging about she is OK with objectified characters, who claims feminism is not necessary and who says exactly what men want to hear to reinforce their position. And the kind of girl who kick other women out of a space because they want to be "the only girl in the group". Personally, I think you have internalized misogyny and maybe you're a bit jealous of other girls getting attention. There's space for you all, for you and the girls who behave "sexy" or you perceive as "girly". At least you acknowledge there's a problem and you're willing to work on it and that's a huge step. Edit: adding something else.
Yeahhhhhh the pick me bit is really the only part I raised my eyebrow at. I'm nearly 30 and have been told I speak like a valley girl with a high-pitched voice. I am very happy to not be picked lol. I didn't choose my voice or what words and pacing comes naturally to me. I got these beautiful new headphones/mic that I honestly haven't even used, specifically bc of perceptions like this. I expect it from most men, but it sucks to get it from women too.
Use those headphones and mic if they make you happy. Girly girls exist. Women with high-pitched voices exist. Ultra feminine women exist. And they deserve respect. Feminism was never about banishing "cuteness" or "feminine traits". And I know women with high-pitched voices are usually mocked. Hell, men with high-pitched voices are mocked as well because they're not "masculine enough". Also, there's nothing wrong with being flirty if the other part consents and participates as well. I think rejection is created by the misconception of that there's only space for one woman. And it's not. You can have a flirty girl on your team, and still there will be a place for you. Being flirty is not "creating an standard on men's expectations on women". It feels like us women have the constant responsability to be an ideal of how it genre must be regarded. We must be perfect at games so they don't think women suck at games. We must be intelligent so they think women are not inferior. And now we must not be flirty so they don't think the rest of the women are like us?
Ugh, that last bit rings so true. I actually enjoy FPS games like COD until I start thinking about how average I am at them. Like, not even bad, just not great, and that's not good enough. Thanks for the uplift <3
We are here to support each other❤️
It's fine to be annoyed with something, not everyone is going to like everyone's actions/behaviors/quirks and voices. However, like you said, the explanation of why it bothers you seems to have hints of internalized misogyny. Generally, when being annoyed with something, there isn't always a reason or explanation, it's usually surface-level and just something that irks you. But when the explanation is quite detailed and you are able to trace those feelings back to deep-rooted thoughts like "men falling for that type of attention and losing your faith in men", it does seem like it comes from a place of internalized misogyny, but that's normal, our society is patriarchal so it's hard not to have any internalized misogyny. In my own experience, I feel like the older I've been getting, the more out-of-touch I'm becoming with younger generation gamers (like 15-22 year olds now). I think the better word to describe my feelings when I hear things like that or excessive flirting/bait (especially those people who try to do it to get viral on TikTok) is "cringe". I find it very hard to even listen to and I'm usually trying to ignore them because it's so cringey.
Girl, I know exactly what you’re trying to say - it’s just hard to verbalize the specific vibe you’re talking about. There’s a difference when women have high voices, are flirty, or even just wanting attention. I personally talk all the time in COD, make crazy sounds bc it just comes out of me faster than I can mute, and men have definitely thought I was flirting. I’m just having a good time and not restraining myself. But the ones you’re talking about are the women putting on a performance for men in such a way that they’re like dehumanizing themselves, almost, for male attention. It’s super cringe and is def a young person thing to do. You can tell when it’s fake and when someone is just genuinely like that. Anyway, if you play HC control, DM me :)
100% agree, comments here about misogyny are talking about just a girl flirting but there’s definitely that distinct vibe that i’ve noticed us girls can pick up on but it seems most guys can’t distinguish between that fake pick me vibe and normal flirting, and i find that frustrating and i think that’s what OP is trying to get at
Agreed and that’s a pick me.
I disagree with a lot of the comments actually. I don't think it's internalized misogyny, I think it's frustration with the way some women perpetuate certain roles and child like characteristics for sexual attention or praise. That is annoying especially when you're a feminist who has done any research into why "liberal feminism" often hurts us more than helps us. (I don't use liberal in a annoying conservative way I am a leftist and a lot of mainstream feminism narratives have been flipped and now are actually very harmful ie: girlbossing, over sexualization etc) However if she is just speaking and not flirting with any guys back or engaging with anyone in that way then I think it *could* be maybe a bit misogynistic. But I play COD every day and I totally understand what you mean and I think it goes far deeper than just assuming you have internalized misogyny because a women has a femme voice, putting on a child like whiney anime girl voice and trying to get male attention on mic is annoying and it perpetuates stereotypes and harmful gender roles that I want to dismantle/ abolish. If anything I think I feel bad for those girls like I want to help them out of that😭
How is it not when she says it annoys her because she thinks they are faking it for male attention?
Well I mean I am going off my exp as a woman who plays COD and pvp game's frequently and it's usually a girl trying to get men to give her money or buy her of. I hear it atleast once a week. In those cases I know they're faking it and feeding into those gross stereotypes to lure gross men in to give them money. That's why i said if they weren't flirting or doing weird stuff then it could be misogynistic but im using my own experience as reference
But this is her thinking, she didn’t say there’s been any actions, just her opinion as soon as she hears. That’s misogyny
She did mention men flirting back, idk to me this just resonated and made me think ab the women i occasionally hear on mic. Although OPs post was detailed and went beyond just hearing a woman speak in a femme voice and being mad, there were genuine feelings and reasons behind it and I think why those feelings arise could be because of the hyper sexualization in liberal feminism that is pushed so often now-a-days. But again I deff see a gray area here, really depends on the interactions OP was hearing and in my experience they are often women in search of attention from men when I hear that whiney child voice
She didn’t say that they all had male responses, she said when she hears that voice at all, she’s annoyed. Then she said that sometimes the voice will get men responding to it and then she said that she thinks “really, this voice works on y’all?” Further having negative thoughts to these woman.
You're really just saying the same thing as OP but with embellishment, and it does come down to internalised misogyny. Some girls just have a valley girl accent. Some girls have cute voices. And some girls purposefully do a cute voice, but it isn't always for the attention of men. It annoys me when I hear it, but I'm a woman, so when another woman is doing it to me, it's because she's just being a cutie. Also, so what if they are doing it for the attention of random men on cod, unless they say something or do something offensive or rude does it really matter if they change their voice?
Well 1.) yes it's generally annoying itself and also im not annoyed at all by extremely femme or valley girl accents. im talking about that whiney uwu girl voice that i have never heard someone naturally have. it's not a crime to be annoyed by something and it doesn't necessarily have to be linked to internalized misogyny. if anything i feel that annoyance is linked to my frustration and painful experiences with misogyny. 2.) "so what if they are doing the voice for attention from males?" well i mean im not stopping anyone but in my opinion and from a feminist lense, as i stated in my previous comment; behavior like this encourages and upholds pedophilic, and misogynistic stereotypes that i don't believe serve us any meaningful purpose. i hold this view because i am a radical feminist (no i am not a terf trans women are included in feminism). There is nothing wrong with doing something for a males attention that is not harmful or dangerous to you. Putting on a child's voice and whining on mic while promoting your sex work is dangerous to the woman and also once again encourages things i don't believe in. I know the whole "support sex workers" thing and i get why it's so popular now because of the absolute atrocity that is the history of how sex workers are treated in society. However I think it's been spun into this things where sex work is somehow "empowering" and feeding into the male gaze and over sexualized standards (upheld primarily by the patriarchy) and now women are just participating in SW for money even though they might have other options that are much safer for them. Im not speaking about SW's that have tragically been forced into that position. Sorry to go into this tirade ab sex work/ my feminism but im tired of explaining this lol. Look if you believe OP is misogynistic then that's okay and that is ur personal view but I tend to just have a larger scope outlook when looking at these kinds of things. I love women, I love all women even women who do that whiney child voice on mic 🤣lmao i just strive to see better for us I respect ur opinion on it but I can't explain this any further than i have atp
agreed! so often this type of behavior comes with a sexual undertone and it just gives me the ick
Feminism means you believe in equal rights for women and men (and all genders for that matter). Why would a woman flirting in a video game make her less of a feminist? If you believe in equal rights you cannot flirt? I don’t even flirt in video games because I only play with friends but I don’t hear someone flirting and just assume she believes women deserve less rights.
dude what is going on with this thread i've created my god. that's disingenuous you can read, i never said women who flirt are not feminists i never even said women who utilize harmful, misogynistic characteristics and voices aren't feminists. I can't decide if someone is a feminist or not, these types of girls are victims of misogyny at its finest if anything. i don't believe their intentions to be misogynistic, at least i would hope not im sure their intentions are just to earn money, but it doesn't erase the fact that *in my opinion and based on MY views on feminism* the ways in which they are going about that goal are harmful to feminism. That doesn't mean that these girls aren't feminists, and the over generalization on ur end to insinuate that im saying FLIRTING is misogynistic like WHAAT. guys pls be so fr right now this can't be that controversial 😭😭 flirting is fine idc what you do in ur free time it's ur life edit: and ALSO just gonna spring this in that every woman does things that are harmful to feminism/ gender abolition every day that doesn't mean ur not a feminist. Your beliefs of feminism are your own, and we are ALL guilty of this. Do you wear makeup, shave, have you enabled a shitty ex bf/ man in ur life? exactly like im not a saint i just stated my opinion was different than the majority here
I did read your original comment. I didn’t read your responses to others. You said “if she’s just speaking and not flirting back with any guys” so that seemed pointed directly towards flirtation being a problem.
i see the confusion but that was absolutely not my point i do not believe women flirting with men is non-feminist especially in the general sense.
My bestie has a very sing song cute voice, she’s 28, and that’s just her voice. She’s also one of the kindest most polite and outgoing friendly people you could meet. She gets shit on by other women in games all the time because they mistake her being friendly as “trying to hard”, she gets shit on for “being an uwu girl”, always. By. Women. The dudes think she’s great (she’s happily married with 3 kids and does NOT flirt), because she’s nice, she likes to joke around, she’s there to game. But women? Hate her. It’s a them problem. Some people are just people you won’t like and get along with, so move along. Turning it into a gender issue, is all coming from you.
One of my closest lady friends who I play games with also has a voice like this. She is also a kind, sensible woman and I respect the hell out of her. I honestly didn’t know this voice “issue” was a thing and this thread/becoming aware of this is genuinely upsetting for me to read. I’d be horrified if she was judged or treated differently because of how she sounds. Honestly, it makes me glad that we stick with private party chat and never hot mic (we do it to avoid misogynistic comments from men, but I’m more than happy for us to stay away from anyone’s judgements).
I think this is more nuanced than internalized misogyny or not. Is it really the voices or how they’re acting? The voice could be annoying but if it’s coupled with shitty behavior on their part that’s different
my issue is this: they’re usually coming across very child-like when they do this voice. and it can come, often, with sexual undertones. i think it’s icky that men are attracted to it & equally icky that women would play into it. that’s my issue with it.
It’s not internalized misogyny to find certain noises annoying.
I had to scroll for this. Thank you. You can find things annoying and it doesn't inherently make someone misogynistic. People are annoyed by other people all the time by millions of things.
Yeah, and we can’t always control what we get annoyed by. Me, I have misphonia or whatever it’s called. So stuff like water being poured is like nails on a chalkboard.
Sorry, but this is willful blindness at best. OP didn't just say they found voices annoying because of the way the sound is, they did it because they think it's a bad representation of women or that those girls are "faking it for attention" which is literally misogyny 101
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 🕺🏼 Edit: only online is saying “Let’s not fight about this” considered offensive, lmao.
[удалено]
If you say so.
[удалено]
I could make an argument out of anything, but that would be pretty annoying. Lol. Edit: I wasn’t being passive aggressive at all. I’m just saying I don’t want to argue. You assuming the worst of me has convinced me I made the right decision.
I'm often annoyed at certain voices, so just that alone? Nah. (I disagree with people who say being annoyed by something is always misogyny) Your explaination kinda leads there though...
I'm also confused as of why is everyone jumping into "yes it is mysoginistic" there's a lot of annoying people online that happen to be women, just because you cringe at them it doesn't mean it's mysoginistic lol This "girls girl" thing it's being pushed way too much. Sometimes those girls will get in my team on an FPS and they won't fucking shut up about random stuff and when it's time to make calls about the game itself they don't say shit. But again, there's also guys that do that and it annoys me just as much, unless OP it's strictly annoyed at girls I don't think it's misogyny.
I get this. I have a deep voice and it does bother me. I’ve had a few games where some women will mimic what I say and it sits with me so much longer than any random insult from a guy. Just feels like a weird betrayal but I know it might be attributed to internalized misogyny. It’s a battle for me both ways.
lol being annoyed is not being misogynistic. I get annoyed at men’s voices and women’s. You don’t have to like everyone.
People in the comments need to take a second and analyze the post properly before jumping to conclusions. There’s a difference between a pickme and a girl who simply has a more feminine voice. OP tried to explain the best she could that the later wasn’t the case, as those girls would go out of their ways to behave like that. And we know they do it for the guys because they only act like that around guys, and when they talk to you they talk normaly. They often ignore you or say very little and focus on the guys, and you can see they dont treat you the same as the guys because its all an act for men. You can simply FEEL when a girl is a pickme and does a high pitch voice and forces giggles. She’s not shaming people who are high pitched, but rather women who force themselves to act like children to get male attention. This is the case OP is talking about. Women who act like that JUST for men. Who become stereotypically whiny and “feminine” just for men. Who are normal and talk normaly but the second a man is around their voice goes up 3 octaves. And in that case, no OP, it’s not internalized mysoginy. Being annoyed at mysoginy (since upholding mysoginistic stereotypes intentionally to get male attention is indeed mysoginistic) doesn’t make you mysoginistic. It’s a normal response, I also get annoyed at women who center their lives around men and go out of their way to act dumb, silly, and childlike just to get male attention. Edit: reading OP’s comments and she seems emotionally intelligent and supportive. This kind if person isn’t the type to judge a girl simply for being feminine and having a high pitched voice. I’m more than sure that OP knows and feels the difference between that and a pickme, again, given the emotional intelligence and maturity. I’m more than sure that this is a complaint about girls who are all like “u-uwu congrats you did amazing, you’re so good at the game, i’m just a silly girl i can’t play as good” with men and then with you they mostly ignore you (or don’t keep the same energy overall, which means they force themselves to act like that for male validation). And not girls who are simply high pitched and speak like “yeey congrats team you did great! I liked your play there OP!”
This may be a record for the amount of times misogyny has been spelled wrong in varied forms in one Reddit comment lol Aside from that, you’re doing a lot of work here in the comments that OP didn’t say or make clear at all in her post. She didn’t say anything about them switching their voices when men arrive in the lobby, etc.
Just a thought… I watch VladNCL (funny, straight, Russian guy with a deep voice who enjoys cross dressing in order to shock misogynistic little shits online) and he adopts an uwu anime like voice to help sell his female persona. It made me wonder if some trans women might adopt an exaggerated feminine voice in order to pass, and if they might behave a certain way in COD if they’re going through a phase of seeking male validation. I’m cis and had my male validation phase as a teenager, so I get it
Can't stand that type, in every single setting, and in games especially. They do make other lady gamers look bad, and it's one of the main things I can't stand them.
Yeah, I don’t look down on other women for how they choose to cope with the society we have. Just speaking in a high-pitched voice isn’t being a pick-me. Women have it hard enough without other women policing the tone of their voices.. If literally all it takes is to have a certain type of feminine voice while chatting in lobby to annoy you, then yes you have internalized misogyny. That sounds a lot like the men who get annoyed when we just exist in a game and half the time they wouldn’t even know if it wasn’t for our voices…
Holy shit lol I have a girl in my clan before who would moan whenever she gets killed (which was a lot) and she says that she’s just like that and it’s just a mannerism like ???? And the boys like it so she just keeps going and i cant say shit abt it lol
That's the worst lmao, my partner and I were in this gaming group with a girl like that (my partner and I weren't even rlly close yet at this point) and this girl in our group would dramatically moan every time she sneezed and same as you, the men liked it but all the other women in the group absolutely knew what she was doing and she didn't do it when the men weren't there. I'm glad you understood what kind of girl I was talking about and not the women with naturally high-pitched or feminine voices 😂 a lot of ppl think that's what I meant even though I specified that I wasn't talking about them 😅😂
Finding a certain person's voice annoying alone is not misogynistic, but it sounds like you're judging these women based on nothing except the way they speak, and *that's* what's annoying you so.. There's nothing "pick me" about speaking in a flirty way or a certain voice. Pick me girls are girls who put other women down to gain male approval and attention. They're "not like other girls" girls. Not girls who flirt in a high voice. I actually have a close friend who has a pretty high voice. She's in her 30s and constantly gets accused of faking her own voice when it's just the way she speaks. Try not to be so quick to judge strangers who you know nothing about.
You're getting annoyed by the sound of women's voices, just like misogynistic guys do, so yes it is internalized misogyny. You have no idea if that's their real voice or not, I encounter women being bullied for the sound of their voice all the time online by sexist guys. It doesn't affect you in any way.
> You have no idea if that's their real voice or not exactly! my best friend has a voice like that and it's because she's tiny and she gets this shit constantly despite the fact that she has zero interest in men. she gets shitty treatment over it doubly so because she's an asian woman and for some reason, people think women just speaking in their natural voice is a problem. unless some random stranger has stated outright they're just faking a voice, who are you to assume this?
I'm a transfem and I went from getting bullied for sounding too girly at school (before I was out) to getting bullied for sounding like a "masculine woman" to getting bullied for sounding too "girly" and people really will look me straight in the face and tell me its not misogyny lmao
some people have no control over how they sound
I don't think you have internalized misogyny. Women who force themselves to have overly highly pitched voices in male dominated games usually are fishing for attention from men. I think fishing for attention in general from both sexes is pathetic as hell. I agree with you that it's pick-me behavior. I understand that you're irritated that men are falling for it, but I see it differently. I don't think they are actually falling for it. They are fully aware what these women are doing, they like it so they choose to flirt. They basically want to be wanted. There's no trickery. Also you said that it affects how men see us, well, I think daily consumption of porn that men engage in are making much more of a difference in seeing women as dumb pick-mes than these interactions. So I think you should ignore it next time.
I don't really think so. I personally hate those fake voices, because I don't like that women seem to think they have to act like children to be appealing to men. That on-top of the fact they think they need to be appealing to men in the first place. And nowadays it's bothered me even more honestly. After all these loli vtubers it just feels like thinly veiled infantilism. Which, obviously is gross to me if anyone is attracted to childlike behaviour. I just cannot stand women that undersell themselves for approval. It's so frustrating to see happen because you know they're actual adults with more to them than that.
> they think they need to be appealing to men in the first place Women are allowed to want to appeal to men! It’s compatible with feminism and even independence to want to feel desired. I agree with you that we have an infantilism problem but it’s upsetting that the annoyance is directed toward the woman instead of the man who’s literally attracted to emulations of children. It’s analogous to shaming women who dress provocatively, even the ones who enjoy the male attention it brings. Who cares! In OP’s post she mentions more frustration at the woman, the woman’s energy, the woman’s motivations, etc. before ever expressing annoyance at the men.
Women can want to, yeah I never wanna claim they can't. I meant emphasis on "need" to. It's normal to want to be appealing, I am not at all trying to say it isn't. I understand, yeah. I personally am more annoyed by men who like women who act like kids, rather than being mad at the woman. But it's hard to not dislike it when a women undersells herself like that. That's a fair point, OPs post was about the women being the part she had a problem with. Maybe she hasn't thought about it deeply, and didn't realise women only act like that because men like childlike attributes.
I’m a female gamer and if I ever see another women ‘pushing’ their gender in gaming, it pisses me off. I have ‘miss’ in my name and that’s about it tbh. I do think it’s because they appear to be of the pick me variety, but tbh, that is on me because I am heavily assuming their intentions based off of a payer profile and I realise how not okay that is. What I’m trying to say here is, I understand how irrational and also rational this may feel and I have no other solution other than to focus on my own gameplay rather than what anyone else is doing.
I think it’s important to ask yourself if you’d judge a man as harshly as you’re judging the women you run into. Do you get annoyed and judgy if a man has a forced deep voice? Or if you do is it to the same level as you feel towards other women? If you don’t then it’s more than likely coming from a misogynistic place deep down. Even if you don’t I do think you should still try to remind yourself people doing things you find cringy aren’t actually hurting you so you should try to treat them as normal as possible. Regardless I think the fact your questioning your own thoughts and reasons behind them is great and shows you have room for growth.
I love that you're trying to interrogate your feelings OP - on the sillier side, if you haven't watched it all yet there is a specific 30 Rock episode you should watch 😂
I think I understand where you're coming from, BUT, I think you should work on why exactly it annoys you and what you want out of that. Even if they are being obnoxious and flirting, what is it you think you'd want done about that? Do you want to confront them? Do you want to talk to them? Personally, I have a "high" pitched, feminine voice. I'm also pretty tall, and if someone meets me on the phone or through voice chat and THEN meets me, they ***always*** go "Wow you are way taller than I thought" - because I sound, I guess, stereotypically petite. I've also ALWAYS been accused of "flirting" when I am just being friggin friendly. It's just how I am, I'm a social butterfly and always have been. I'm not putting on a voice, or doing anything intentionally, I'm just existing and chatting. So I want you to consider trying to hold off on the annoyance and question if it's truly aimed at men or if they're just being themselves, before you jump to judging them or thinking of them as a "pick me" or anything like that. Trust me, I do not want to be "picked" but have been accused as such just from my personality.
I feel like the concept of "it affects how x sees us" is a really common mindset that's only ever held by minorities/oppressed groups Ez examples being things like queer men hating on those who are "too fem", trans people who speak out against neopronouns We're trained to turn on each other and told we'll "only" be respected if we perform to the utmost standard, in a way, calling out the "pick me"s comes from a place of wanting to get picked, just in a different way But ultimately we're individuals; some women just sound like that and even though you're *sure* they're faking it, you will be wrong sometimes. And for those who are faking it it doesn't matter, they are flirting and want to be seen (as women) as though they are flirting. You don't want men to see women as a whole as flirtatious, because you personally don't want to be seen as flirtatious. But for those women, they do want to be seen as such, and for them that assumption may not be a bad thing. I think any time an oppressed person feels annoyance at their group for being a "bad example" it's always because they're afraid of the oppressors and their reaction, but ultimately it's out of our control whether we're treated as a monolith and sometimes the best thing you can do is be yourself and be unique. Because then SLOWLY men might realise that women aren't just {women} but actually a number of groups including {flirty women who sound flirty} {women who are not being flirty} and the elusive {woman who sounds flirty but is not actually flirting} Also you're not a bad person for this, I think everybody experiences it, I'm non binary and for ages felt annoyed at super complex gender identities because I felt "I barely get accepted for mine and now it's going to be taken less seriously because I'm sharing an umbrella with a bigger target for transphobia". And sometimes it's true, men get flirted with in a cod lobby and assume that's the norm from there; during the gay marriage debate the "unsavoury" trans people got thrown under the bus by the conservatives of what comes "next". But ultimately we can't just make ourselves as small as possible to avoid being noticed
We all have internalized misogyny because we live within a sexiest system. And it pops up at weird times. I try to remind myself that, at the end of the day, even if a woman is doing something I disagree with/that bothers me, at least she has the freedom to make that choice, you know.
Sometimes things are just annoying... No need to think that hard about it. Lol
It is not misogyny to dislike women, it is misogyny to dislike them for being women. If what bothers you is specific behavior rather than gender, I feel like you are good.
[удалено]
I read this in Yoda's voice.
Unfortunate 😌😅 but I appreciate your feedback
Im just going to comment that e everyone has internalized misoginy. 99% at least. If you think " oh no not me, Im impervious to this!" Then chances are even higher that you have internalized misoginy. Internalized misoginy is not a yes/no situation. Where you are either a raging misoginist or a perfect pure crystal of feminism. Everyone can come across a specific situation where their misoginy triggers, and OP realized that. Good for her. Sometimes it's just a matter of never questioning yourself about something because it didnt come up before.
I do the opposite. I belch loud af and try to act as manly as possible so I don’t give off those vibes lol. I am also just a Uber tomboy who has no issue saying I need to poop and that the squad should play a round with out me. I surprisingly met my bf like that on a video game and he didn’t get grossed out. He treated me like an equal and a team mate and later down road like a year later we started dating. He was my best friend before he is my partner so I just felt like an equal team mate and not like I was different just bc I have a vagina. I guess what I’m getting at is that when women are one way with the girls and then act girly/flirty and make their voice higher in front of guys, it further separates men and women gamers. Like don’t you want to be treated as an equal? Most of us sure do! I feel when women do that, they further separate themselves from the rest of the gaming community, and males see them as some mythical waifu being instead of an equal. Imo, these girls further perpetuate the stereotypes of “girl gamers” and not just being the average “gamer.” That’s low key why I feel we are treated different, and if a girl is just vibing on a game, (deeper voice or not), there is the stigma that we just sit in the house with miniskirts and cat ear headsets, looking for a carry and the next discord mod to buy them a 45 dollar bundle of a pink anime skin.
omg you are NOT like the other girls, that's for sure!
I literally didn’t say that at all… are you for real dude..
I am a girl who likes to game. This is a subreddit devoted to that. I seriously don’t even get why you said that. I didn’t know that being a tomboy is being a pick me dude if that’s what you’re getting at. This really bummed me out bro. Just thought I was relating to people here…
What does your comment even mean? Why are they not allowed to be tomboy and loud and this and that? Is that cause it's outside of the 'norm' for most women? Is OP only allowed to be feminine and girly, to be okay? Honey, you got some internalized misogyny on your hands. You really thought though, huh.
??? The problem isnt being a tomboy, the problem is basically blaming feminine women for "creating barriers" and distancing themselves from men in the gaming community by just being themselves
You completely missed the point. Specifically acting a certain way to impress men is my issue. If you already girly and you act like yourself, hell yeah!! If you are the stereotypical tomboy and you act as such I feel like that’s great too! I’m just saying what OP said which I whole heartedly agree with and just elaborating on my opinion it as well. Hell I’m wearing a dress and I full face now! But am I still gonna talk in my deep ass vaper’s voice on open mic bc I’m not trying to cater to a random guy who prolly already thinks if we lose a game it’s because I’m a girl. On the other end of the spectrum, if a guy is bullying you for your high pitched natural voice, you should tell him to fuck off since you are being yourself!! We are not all the same, we have our own personalities just like guys who game do! But the term “gamer boy” doesn’t exist because they aren’t stereotyped the same way we are. (Think how men are just called “streamers” not “male streamers” but a girl who streams is called a “female streamer.”) We shouldn’t be put in a bubble because we are women! Hell, if anything the girls who purposefully perpetuate the stereotypes are sort of misogynistic and make it harder for the rest of women who have high pitched feminine voices who just want to play a damn game without giving a flying fck about seeming cute in front of guys. That’s what I’m trying to get at. Sorry if I’m bad at explaining but I have had very unpleasant experiences with guy randos bc they assume I’m gaming with my duo (my boyfriend) for a carry and not because I enjoy the game like everyone else on the team! Those are the stereotypes I hate, so when one is purposely using an uwu voice and acting cutesy to cater to men’s fantasies of “gamer girls” or to make yourself more desirable as a team mate, it is just an ick for me. Just like what OP said…
The problem is that women as a whole get judged for one woman’s actions.
**The reason it bothers me when men start flirting or whatever is because internally I'm just like "Really? This kinda stuff still works on y'all?" It's more just me loosing faith men and how they do not evolve to see through the pick me energy lol** yep. sounds like misogny to me. bitter because you didnt get the attention from those men, since you arent "like the other high pitched fake girls"
Trust me lmao I do not want those men's attention 😂 I'm mostly not even attracted to men, I am attracted to women.
Idk why people are being harsh, I mean, you're doing the first step of fighting internalized misogyny by stopping and addressing your internal bias. To answer your question, I'd say it's internalized misogyny. I think it's totally fair to critique the disproportionate sexualization that female gamers get. I mean it's also fine to hate certain voices (I've had both men and women annoy me with the amount of excess vocal fry in their voice) But it should be done without putting down female gamers who are meeting that standard, especially if you don't know if that's just how they sound, or if they are even aware of it. Having our voices go higher at work or around strangers is a natural defense mechanism a lot of us (myself included) don't even notice we do unless we pay attention. Idk you perosnally, of course, but it might be worth observing next time you're at work or talking to strangers if your voice changes from how you naturally talk around ppl you know well. Sometimes, when I'm nervous, I come off as flirty (twirling my hair, having a high-pitched laugh) when I have 0 romantic interest or attraction to the person I'm talking to. Unless these girls are actively throwing you or other women under the bus to impress these men, they aren't being a "pick me."
To me it reads like just generally disappointment in people. Have you reached a new life stage? I find that as I’ve got older some younger behaviours bother me more. I have to remind myself that I was probably like that at their age.
I personally not only get higher with my pitch unintentionally whenever I get emotional, but it also annoys me that I do it 😹 I don’t think it’s internalized misogyny to find a sound annoying, but I do think it’s a good opportunity to breathe through the discomfort and learn from it. Your adversion could be due to some kind of past trauma in general (for example, my son whining sometimes bothers me a LOT more than it should. This could be because I was told whining is bad as a kid and might have got punished for it, even through it’s perfectly age appropriate), but honestly it could be totally unintentional on their ends! You’re not obligated to play with anybody that you don’t want to, of course :) Some people DO do that kind of thing intentionally and purposefully, so it really depends on the woman’s character as a whole honestly! On top of that, women are constantly fucking pressured so hard to always be desirable that some of us put up that persona almost for straight up safety purposes!! It can feel to some like the only way to be accepted by others and what not. It’s actually a good reason for US as women to be very authentic in spaces like video games- it can help break the stigma of how women are “supposed” to be! ♡︎
Idk I think people who say its internalized misogyny are is a bit too much... We all know that there is a women who just play games to be special or to flirt. It happens it's not like we've never seen them, and they usually adopt that voice. OP didn't say 'when I hear a high pitched voice' only she also said when they 'adopt pick me behavior'. I dont think it's misogynistic it's just something that bothers you and you have the right to be bothered without being called misogynistic. Pick me girls usually make men act like weirdos all over again and that affects you, these are acceptable feelings don't feel bad because you are bothered you're not a saint and neither is any of us not all women are perfect and victims some of us really fake the high pitched voice and 'help me plz im bad at the game haha' to get the attention it's not like we've never seen it And I'm fairly sure I'm not misogynistic if anything I'm actually trying to not hate men because it's something that's I've been feeling for a while and I dont want it
There could also be a feeling of general resentment that women “need” to do these things to get attention from men. Like men need us to be as performatively feminine as possible before we’re even seen as women. Perfect hair, nails, & makeup (“natural” makeup only, even though it still takes two hours); baby voice; hourglass shape; etc. I don’t blame anyone for doing those things and I think half the time they do it more for themselves than for men (it’s fun to be feminine!), but I understand feeling frustrated that there’s this high bar that we feel pressured to meet. It takes an incredible amount of time, money, and work to have that look, and not all of us are cut out for it or interested. Sometimes with men it feels like meeting that bar is a requirement, and that if we don’t, we’re not worthy of their affection. (Luckily, all my partners have loved my low-effort-femininity.) I believe in you and your intentions, OP!
[удалено]
Also OP: reminder that a lot of the girls in the comments have internalized mysoginy themselves and feel attacked by this post and get mad. Not because you’re wrong, you properly explained your point and I immediatly understood the type of girl you were refering to. They either agree with it or are a pickme themselves. Not everything revolves around them. You just have a high pitched voice? Ok, this isn’t about you, yet you complain and make OP feel bad when she clearly wasn’t talking about you. Feels a lot to me like “but not all men! I don’t do that”. This isn’t about high pitched voice women, this isn’t about women who act cute because that is simply who they are (all valid, yall are wonderful and shouldnt feel bad about being yourselves) This is AGAIN about women who force themselves into being something they’re not for male validation. Which yes, it’s annoying as it contributes to our problems by feeding into the stereotypes. I wouldn’t take the opinion of some of those women seriously, not without some good arguments (which there have been none so far that I’ve read). Just look at how many of them missed the point of women FORCING themselves into MYSOGINISTIC STEREOTYPES (whiny feminine voice, acting like a kid) for MALE VALIDATION. Go on with the downvotes I guess, I don’t care about the opinions of girls with “cute golden retriever gamer boyfriends” who say homophobic slurs every 2 minutes on discord with their buddies.
Your other comment made good points, I don't know why you then made this one to generalise & put down women who disagree with you, it shouldn't be that deep, people are going to have a variety of opinions that may differ from yours on any discussion, that's just life
> They either agree with it or are a pickme themselves. >I don’t care about the opinions of girls with “cute golden retriever gamer boyfriends” who say homophobic slurs every 2 minutes on discord with their buddies. Yikes. Do you hear yourself? "Conform with my opinion or you are the problem." This isn't how we win anything hun. Not that it should matter in this context, but I'll say I am a 37 year old happily single trans woman. I'm alt AF, have a side shave, and my voice barely clears typical feminine range. I not only disagree with your opinions, I think your needless incendiary ultimatums that mandate conformity to your opinions are significantly more problematic than any woman choosing to act cutesy. And keep in mind, I sit the closest to the guillotine of women's rights.
Most definitely internalized misogyny. There’s no reason to assume things about a woman you don’t know anything about, if you’re assuming negative things based on xyz it’s probably misogyny.
No, I get it. It’s annoying as hell and I can’t stand girls or guys forcing fake voices because it’s always so obvious (guys going to the opposite end and trying to force a “groggy” voice).
I don't know what it's worth, but women trying to be sexy in voice chat just irk me. It feels manipulative, and I *hate* being manipulated. Not to mention, like you said, it sets a bad example.
Sounds like you might. I don’t see what the problem is with how anyone chooses to interact with others online unless it’s abusive/bullying. If they want to be cutesy cringe or whatever that’s up to them, it doesn’t really affect you. I make liberal use of my mute button when something bothers me, maybe do the same?
maybe it's the southern in me, but i always get annoyed when anyone does **intentional** "dumb"/"anime" sounding voices. maybe it's also that i'm """"""""old"""""""" and jaded, but i understand how you feel. i don't necessarily hate these women, but i do cringe. i only begin to hate them when they purposefully start sending hate my way, which is very "pick me" behavior. now the people who just naturally sound like that, it's different. i have a naturally higher pitched voice, often i'm called a child online but it's not something i can help. i feel like it's always easy to spot the person doing such voices intentionally, and all i try to think about is the fact that; maybe not tomorrow, maybe not even next year, but one day that person will lay awake in bed at 3 am cringing at themselves. for most gamer girls, this whole anime voice thing is just a phase that they'll grow out of. just push through the games with people that annoy you and go next. block them if they start hating on you, or just mute them if it annoys you that much.
My voice is naturally high-pitched so I am slightly triggered lol. I’m just trying to game lol, I can’t help that my voice sounds the way it does. I exclusively only play games with friends now which limits me from meeting new people but shields me from toxicity from weirdo guys. I broke my rule a few months ago and we decided to join a public lobby. I was happy to hear 2 girls in the lobby and I said something to the friends I joined with. The second they heard my voice, one girl said “sorry the girls that play this game are annoying” and immediately kicked me. She told my friends she kicked me because a girl in a game before had a voice she didn’t like and she just didn’t want to play with other women. So now I’m back to gaming with only friends lol.
I think you're conflating any attention seeking behavior with being a pick me, when being a pick-me as other people have described involves throwing other women under the bus to gain that attention or status. So I think to some degree your annoyance with women who speak like that just in lobbies (to be flirty/get attention or whatever) is internalized misogyny, and to blame misogynistic views on women is also internalized misogyny. You're faulting the wrong people, it would be akin to saying because X race has people that behave in X way, that's why racists have a bad view of them! well no, because the racists were racist and they were gonna be racist anyways regardless and that's an example of internalized racism. But I do think that what you're describing with the weird dramatic childlike high pitched anime voices (v-tubers or otherwise who are basically pedo-baiting) are exploitative and nasty to get views and money
I don't get annoyed because most of the time it's a response to having to tiptoe around people, especially men, our whole lives. If women don't put on the "kindergarten teacher" voice, we're seen as mean, rude, unhappy, sad, a slew of other things. I'm sure some women do it to sound sexy, but whatevs. And some women just have high voices. Nothing wrong with that, women shouldn't have to hide their femininity or their voices in order to be taken seriously. And some women just like to talk like that. Basically, Idc how they wanna present themselves, or whether they have a high voice, a valley girl voice, or anything like that. I'm annoyed at men who go on and get emotional over women being in the game though
Maybe it's just me but I like it when women do whatever the fuck they want.
Losing, not loosing. And yeah, you sound pretty jealous and insecure.
Seems like you have a victim blaming thing going on. Sounds like you get annoyed. The game lobby gets full of flirting and all that other stuff that isn't about the game. Maybe you think it's perpetuating a stereotype of gamer girls, but I can only assume. In the end, what's more annoying a woman who has a cute voice getting attention or the men who just open their mouth and think the woman's there for them to make a move at? I have a higher voice with a hint of valley girl (california born and raised), I hate when guys start trying to get my attention or flirt. But I would hope a fellow woman wouldn't be annoyed at me for existence and more at the men who feel entitled to it. After OPs edit: I get it, but at the same time I do voices for fun all the time, it's my whole youtube channel. So I would say just don't let it get to you, they're doing a voice and having fun. It doesn't effect your life outside of a game, which in 20 minutes you'll be in a new lobby. I don't think it's mysgonistic to be annoyed by someone preforming for male attention, but I also think at that point you're letting something so mundane get on your nerves that energy is better spent elsewhere. Also why the down votes for giving input when OP asked for some? 😥
I sort of feel like I’d have to hear it to know, but if it’s deliberate (and it sounds like it is) then I bet I’d feel the same way as you, and kind of have the same question as you 😬
IMO, it is internalized misogyny. For myself, my whole life my mother told me how manly and gross I sound, and so when I’m on the phone (or in this case VC in games) with people I don’t know well/am not comfortable with yet, I tend to mask my voice with a more feminine voice, unintentionally, out of anxiousness. Due to this, I’ve been bullied by other women while playing games. I feel like they were the “pick me”s who had another woman encroaching into their territory when they’re just “one of the guys” and “not like other girls” 😑
yeah this is hard-core internalized misogyny
I'm not the sexy but the "cute" type. To the point that guys called my sneezing or hiccups so cute. One time, the hiccup really hurt, and this one guy would just naww\~ the whole time till i muted me. At least for me, it's not intentional. I'm also the girl who gots asked a lot if she is a young boy, because even now in my 30 i sound very young. To a point that i don't talked much and when, i would always try to sound ... huskyer(?). But trough therapy and just life, i stopped with this and just enjoy gaming. And yeah, i'm the girl who likes to make overexerted naws\~, and nuuuu\~ and such stuff. I also often just say words i read to me, or when i see a cat i say meow. But i'm really not doing this to bring attention to me, often times when people ask what i said i often don't remember what i even said xD. I also have this only online, as i'm super shy offline and my talking is better, but i like to stay in the background \^\^''. It's easier for me, to be my real self when i'm online behind a pc, if this makes sense to you. So pls, don't hate me\~ But i absolutly understand why you find this kind of behaviour annoying. It's just really not to grab attention of the guys. Well, at least not any guy. I did this for my exfriend sometimes, because i knew i would get his attention this way xD.
I'll tell you what, as a woman who plays a lot of cod and has encountered plenty of other women playing cod. I've never had this thought before. This is definitely some shenanigans on your part.
Men/boys constantly behave badly in online video games but that isn't seen to reflect on them as a whole. I'd maybe think about that when worrying about whether these people annoying you are making women 'look bad' or not. People can exist as they are, annoying or not, not everyone has the same intentions and these encounters will not stop.
Your edit to your post doesn't absolve you because I know for a fact that you're not correctly judging every single woman's voice, every single time. You have a complex and you think you know what voice is "real" and what voice is "fake" but you are simply judging women in a negative way and picking at them just like you accuse guys of doing. This is why I say girls can be SOME of the most toxic people I've run into while gaming because they think something about another girl instantly and judge her harsher than the dudes in the party and then completely shut her out or shut off the idea of even giving her a chance...it's like they're actually looking for a reason to hate on or shit on the other girl.I literally have to jump through hoops just to get some girls to believe that I'm not a threat to them or I'm not some idea that they have made up in their head about girl gamers and its really frustrating when all I want to do is get to know them and have fun in this game. I mean it's one thing to talk about not liking what certain girls talk about because the topics they talk about are designed for male attention and pandering to dudes, but it's something else to just pick on how they naturally talk and then assume simply because of how they sound that you know their whole life story and exactly the type of girl they are so now you're going to change how you treat and view them in a gaming setting in a negative way....this is literally the same thing some toxic men do.
Yeah they're annoying as hell. I play OW and whenever i see a mercy main with a stereotypical feminine name and she joins vc and you hear a fake cutesy voice. I report them for throwing lmao
Yes, to answer your question, this is internalized misogyny.
Why have you internalized misogyny? =/
Yes. You absolutely have internalized misogyny. It's none of your business what other people do or how they choose to navigate a patriarchal world. Pick me's do not reflect badly on you and it's shitty of you to think otherwise. (there are other reasons to be critical of pickme's but usually not simple non-political existence) Not to mention that despite your insistence they're specifically putting this voice on. What if they're not? A lot of women subconsciously raise their pitch when they're around someone they find attractive. At the end of the day you're judgement here is wildly bias prone and that's not great either.
I am someone who has a pretty high pitched voice - funnily enough, I thought I had a man voice, based on how I heard it in my head, until I heard my voice on a voicemail many many years ago and was like Omg is that me?!?! I’m curious how you’re able to tell for certainty who is and isn’t faking a high pitched voice?
I will be honest, whenever I meet someone in-game and dare to use comms around them, regardless of gender, I would be glad if they don't insult me or act weird around me. That is the only thing that I get concerned about That being said, I might have seen similar behavior to the one you mentioned, and I just... don't care. I would only be glad to not be a part of it. Those women who do this stuff are their own persons, and their actions only represent them. If someone can't comprehend that simple fact, and judges me based on someone else's actions, it really is not on me, it is on them. Now, this behavior is not only exclusive to women. I hear men in-game deepen their voices to the point where they sound out of breath when they hear a woman presence. I think it is just... some humans... being...some humans?
OP, I'm going to veer off course from most of the comments here and share a video of a comedy sketch that literally changed my life when I first saw it years ago when I was a kid. It's from the Canadian comedy troupe, The Kids in the Hall, and it's called "Lonely Sarcastic Guy": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziH9St7ajuw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziH9St7ajuw) The TL;DW is that this guy seems like a real asshole, but it turns out his unrelenting sarcasm is due to a speech impediment that just makes him sound like that. Honest to God, I think of that sketch multiple times a year, whenever I encounter someone who has an off-putting tone of voice (whiny, arrogant, weirdly aggressive, etc.) -- I basically mentally strip away their tone of voice and focus only on the actual words they're saying, and if their actual words aren't themselves off-putting, I figure they're like Sarcastic Guy and aren't intentionally meaning to sound like that. Like, in your case, all you know about these girls/women is what they say and how they sound over com. They could have any reason at all for sounding the way they do, but you don't know them well enough to identify that reason -- maybe it's legit how they talk 24/7, maybe it's a deliberate fake voice to flirt, maybe it's a defense mechanism they can't control...whatever. If what they're saying wouldn't be annoying if they spoke in a different tone of voice, personally I would give them the benefit of the doubt and refrain from speculating about their motive for sounding like that and chalk it up to them being like Sarcastic Guy.
I deal with this too. I would never say anything to someone to hurt their feelings, I simply just play the game and go on my way to the next teammates. I think for me it’s just a different wavelength kind of thing. We don’t click and I’m okay with that. I just find high pitched voices performative, or like the person isn’t relaxed in some way. I usually just mute them if they become to much. Not everyone’s gonna like me for little things too. It’s just human.
When I get nervous my pitch goes up. I am nervous gaming online so that is something to consider. I am not trying to flirt with anyone, I just want to game.
Nah, I'm the same way, my voice gets higher when I'm stressed in games too. Like I said in the post, I'm not talking about high pitched or feminine voices. There's a clear difference between that and when it's forced to sound all anime-like and "uwu I am so bad at this game guys plz help me 🥺" & moaning into the mic but they turn that off when the men aren't around. Flirting is fine, I don't care abt that but I just find that type to be excessive and annoying to hear. Don't get me wrong, I never say anything about it, I just personally find it annoying and cringe is all. Never say anything to make them feel bad about it or anything tho, I never even acknowledge it out loud. I knew a girl in a group I was in for a while who would dramatically moan like an anime girl every time she sneezed but she didn't do that when it was just us girls. She was cool and chill to hang w but just only when the men weren't in the chat. Again, we never said anything to her about it though.
Ah alright, yeah I agree with you about the weird sound effects some people do. It's not just women for me it could be anybody. Moaning sounds, people eating their mic, screaming going on, people blasting their music through the mic. I mute all these people as soon as the game will let me.
Ugh same, cannot stand chewing in the mic and honestly even more annoying when they blast music. I think the playing music thing is extremely rude and inconsiderate, like we probably don't want to hear or don't like their music for 1 and secondly we would like to hear ourselves talk to each other over their obnoxious music lmao It's very overstimulating for me to try to understand what someone else is saying while some bad music is playing at the same volume as their voice 😭😂😂
maybe I'm just prude, but I find intentionally sexual voices/remarks/sounds (like the "sexy-whiny" voice & moans OP mentioned) in-game to be a bit rude, regardless of who the offender is. If it's an open lobby, couldn't there be minors present? even if it's all adults playing, isn't the main reason everyone is there to play the game? as for getting annoyed at the men who start to flirt with people in these instances - I think it can be annoying when people respond positively to another person objectifying themselves! and the voice you're talking about sounds like self-objectification to me 🤷♀️ we all have at least a little internalized misogyny to work through, at any rate
A pick me girl is someone who puts other girls down to get male attention imo. Also Ive been told I have a high pitched voice, and have gotten shit all my life about it online. Irl usually just some light fun teasing, but on Vc people are rude af. Just some food for thought next time you come across someone with a high pitched voice. Edit: didn’t see your edit on your post, my bad.
I think that I upset older women like this when I was younger around 15-21, to be honest, because back then I liked the attention from men. I also have that high-pitched squealy kind of voice. It's embarrassing when I look back, and a lot of these girls you're talking about are probably going to be embarrassed later on too, even though they're just exploring a subjective aspect of their identity expression. Nowadays, I am 30 and in order to avoid harassment, I hide my gender. In chats, I basically talk like a dude, finding any reason to not join voice calls. I had a lot more fun back then, but now I would kill to have a community of women in the game I play! Similar to you, I have issues with a lot of the women I meet in games, but not for the same reason. I am wary of women in online games who will ignore other women and express extreme toxicity towards other women gamers, which I find a lot more common in my gaming communities. To me, this signifies certain self-hating behaviors and possibly a desire to receive most of the male attention.