Go for an IS38! I did and it's great. I ran without an intercooler for quite a while as well since I did the swap during the fall and didn't get an intercooler until the middle of the summer after. I certainly felt the heat soak on 35 degree autocross days before I upgraded.
As another IS38 GTI owner, gotta agree with you that it's great.
Prior to the CS, I used to have a regular mk7 GTI with a tuned IS20 setup, and the rev-happiness of the IS38 is far more rewarding to me. IS20 midrange is great but it was kind of underwhelming in how it just fell off up top. Being encouraged to rev the car out to get the most out of the IS38 makes it so much more enjoyable.
Excuse my arrogance, are engine internals the same on all EA888? I.e. will engine internals handle an is38 just as well as an is20, given the appropriate airflow and cooling?
Yes it can handle the IS38. Can handle bigger turbos too.
It's the torque that's the weak spot for these motors (both the R/S3 and GTI/A3) 888.3 TSI's will be capped at 450tq by tuners unless you build the motor. But horsepower limit is much higher. Can do high 500's with ease. 600 is where it's recommended you start looking into building it. (As well as the trans like clutch packs if DSG).
IS38 is a baby turbo. It's not going to get anywhere near the limits for the motor.
The DTR?
DTR6054 is an OK option. Setup how APR has it (stock DP) makes it kind of laggy though. But you can add an aftermarket DP and get a custom tune for it and make it nice and responsive.
It has a little bit better headroom than the IS38. Easy 400whp on pump gas. IS38 needs full E85 for that. With a ceiling of mid to high 400's max effort. IS38 won't go much past 400-410. It's a turbo that sits between the IS38 and IS20 hybrid turbos. Much like the Garrett 2260S.
But it is one of the best cost to performance options on the market. $1500 for the 6054 and tune for 400whp. Lag aside, that's an **amazing** value.
I will note, if you are going to run an aftermarket DP and get a custom tune. Skip the DTR and just get a Vortex Std. The Vortex Std has much better headroom leaving the door open for more power should you want it.
Engine internals don’t differ enough to make a difference. The is38 is barely a larger turbo than the is20, but I think it shifts the power band just enough to be perfect for this platform. It’s a good balance of cost, performance, and reliability.
It's mostly in the cylinder head like you hinted at. Only bottom end differences in the high-output version I can recall are slightly different pistons (lower compression ratio) and some higher flow piston oil squirters.
I do wonder if the IS38 bolted onto a regular GTI engine would actually be a little less stressful for the same peak boost pressures. The IS38 rolls its torque on more gradually than the IS20, and so isn't thumping the drivetrain with a whole lot of torque all at once like a tuned IS20 setup does.
Only problem is that the OEM IS38 isn't great for high-power builds. It tends to snap its shaft if you're running a really hot tune (say, stage 2 and on E85). If this is a concern, you can get what's known as an IS38+, which has an upgraded bearing assembly.
A used is20 is literally 100 bucks. I can change out a turbo in 3 hours, I would NOT be selling a car because of that reason.
If you find a good euro shop, it'd be around 600-700 bucks to replace the turbo.
Lol. A "good" euro shop just charged me 1200 fucking dollars for carbon cleaning. Not including the bullshit 125 dollar diagnostic appointment to prove to them I need fucking carbon cleaning.
Yeah my local euro shop charges $200 per oil change. The one time I went they tried to quote me for over $1500 in additional service for supposedly leaking oil. When I brought up that the oil level when I brought it in was exactly what it was when I changed it myself 5k miles ago, they told me it was so small I wouldn't notice. Then what's the need for $1500 of labor to fix it????
Not the shop's fault you got ripped off, always good to ask around local forums for what is a reasonable labor rate and reviews.
My local euro is $130 an hour and that's North Jersey, he's reasonable. Knowledgeable and has good reviews.
I recommend using golfmk7.com and asking locals for good recommendations.
Take it from me, who blew my engine racing in Germany, amongst a slew of other small issues I’ve had to deal with over the years of having my MK7….
ANY repair less than 3k is better than a 4 year + new car payment
$2,800 is enough to get a EQT Vortex XL, Downpipe, Intercooler, and a tune! Time to smack v8s with your new found 400WHP!
Or if we wish to be boring... [https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-vw-is20-turbocharger-ihi-06k145874m](https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-vw-is20-turbocharger-ihi-06k145874m)
There are plenty guides on how to do this swap yourself. Hardest part is just knowing it will take 5+ hours if you don't know wtf you are doing. But if you have tools and know how to use them, you'll be closer to the 3 hour mark. Oh adapting/calibrating the wastegate might be an issue if you dont have OBD11/Cobb Accessport/Vagcom/Carly(?) and that one damn oil or coolant line that wont detach from the turbo might make you crazy for 10 minutes or so!
If you're a hands off kinda guy, buy the is20, and ask your local VW facebook group for a local indy shop. If you want to save even more money, the job is easy enough that the one 'vw enthusiast with the kitted out garage that loves wrenching on VWs' might do it for a few hundred and some beers!
It’s posts like this that make me start to worry. I’m a 2016, I’m stage two, and I have 120,000 miles. I’m wondering when the shoe is going to drop for me.
2017 SE here that’s been stage 1 since new car break in.
198,000 miles on mine and not a day in the shop.
When something does go wrong, I’ll fix it. The car has been so damn reliable and still purrs like a kitten.
Just fyi my turbo failed on my 2017 gti and VW ended up replacing it under warranty. Stage 1 tune and all. Depends on what happened to your turbo but might be worth looking into.
i got a used is20 from a 7.5 gti after grenading on the highway for me (car is stage 1 downpipr and tune making 325 crank), turbo was maybe a year old at the time and it is still running strong (i sold the car but know the owner)
Much cheaper to get a new turbo than buy a new car. Get creative - another quote or find rebuilt and DIY, etc.
Selling it would be taking a big hit, obviously, bc bad turbo.
I’m in the Chicagoland area and the lowest quote I found was the dealerships $2800. I called the popular (non-dealership) shops, multiple dealerships, and smaller, not-well known shops.
$2800 is the going cost here for parts and labor on a full turbo replacement.
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Sounds like a good time to upgrade to a bigger turbo.
This is the way.
This is the way.
Are the Golf R turbos plug and play? I’m considering upgrading as well but not sure what steps to go
Basically. You’ll need a tune and a DP. Intercooler highly recommend.
Thanks! I’ll do some more research, i’m close to 80k this is becoming a possibility!
It’s really silly to put an is20 back in, especially if you are paying for labor.
Go for an IS38! I did and it's great. I ran without an intercooler for quite a while as well since I did the swap during the fall and didn't get an intercooler until the middle of the summer after. I certainly felt the heat soak on 35 degree autocross days before I upgraded.
As another IS38 GTI owner, gotta agree with you that it's great. Prior to the CS, I used to have a regular mk7 GTI with a tuned IS20 setup, and the rev-happiness of the IS38 is far more rewarding to me. IS20 midrange is great but it was kind of underwhelming in how it just fell off up top. Being encouraged to rev the car out to get the most out of the IS38 makes it so much more enjoyable.
Well-said. Also swapped recently and this is a great explanation of how it feels.
Excuse my arrogance, are engine internals the same on all EA888? I.e. will engine internals handle an is38 just as well as an is20, given the appropriate airflow and cooling?
Yes it can handle the IS38. Can handle bigger turbos too. It's the torque that's the weak spot for these motors (both the R/S3 and GTI/A3) 888.3 TSI's will be capped at 450tq by tuners unless you build the motor. But horsepower limit is much higher. Can do high 500's with ease. 600 is where it's recommended you start looking into building it. (As well as the trans like clutch packs if DSG). IS38 is a baby turbo. It's not going to get anywhere near the limits for the motor.
Peylix what do you think of the apr turbo vs is38?
The DTR? DTR6054 is an OK option. Setup how APR has it (stock DP) makes it kind of laggy though. But you can add an aftermarket DP and get a custom tune for it and make it nice and responsive. It has a little bit better headroom than the IS38. Easy 400whp on pump gas. IS38 needs full E85 for that. With a ceiling of mid to high 400's max effort. IS38 won't go much past 400-410. It's a turbo that sits between the IS38 and IS20 hybrid turbos. Much like the Garrett 2260S. But it is one of the best cost to performance options on the market. $1500 for the 6054 and tune for 400whp. Lag aside, that's an **amazing** value. I will note, if you are going to run an aftermarket DP and get a custom tune. Skip the DTR and just get a Vortex Std. The Vortex Std has much better headroom leaving the door open for more power should you want it.
Engine internals don’t differ enough to make a difference. The is38 is barely a larger turbo than the is20, but I think it shifts the power band just enough to be perfect for this platform. It’s a good balance of cost, performance, and reliability.
R has a couple small differences, can’t recall. Magnesium filled valves or something like that?
It's mostly in the cylinder head like you hinted at. Only bottom end differences in the high-output version I can recall are slightly different pistons (lower compression ratio) and some higher flow piston oil squirters. I do wonder if the IS38 bolted onto a regular GTI engine would actually be a little less stressful for the same peak boost pressures. The IS38 rolls its torque on more gradually than the IS20, and so isn't thumping the drivetrain with a whole lot of torque all at once like a tuned IS20 setup does. Only problem is that the OEM IS38 isn't great for high-power builds. It tends to snap its shaft if you're running a really hot tune (say, stage 2 and on E85). If this is a concern, you can get what's known as an IS38+, which has an upgraded bearing assembly.
A used is20 is literally 100 bucks. I can change out a turbo in 3 hours, I would NOT be selling a car because of that reason. If you find a good euro shop, it'd be around 600-700 bucks to replace the turbo.
Yeah this, OP how good are you with tools? It's not super difficult
Lol. A "good" euro shop just charged me 1200 fucking dollars for carbon cleaning. Not including the bullshit 125 dollar diagnostic appointment to prove to them I need fucking carbon cleaning.
[удалено]
Exactly.
It's supposedly one of the best. I live an hour from two of the most notable shops on the east coast
Yeah my local euro shop charges $200 per oil change. The one time I went they tried to quote me for over $1500 in additional service for supposedly leaking oil. When I brought up that the oil level when I brought it in was exactly what it was when I changed it myself 5k miles ago, they told me it was so small I wouldn't notice. Then what's the need for $1500 of labor to fix it????
Not the shop's fault you got ripped off, always good to ask around local forums for what is a reasonable labor rate and reviews. My local euro is $130 an hour and that's North Jersey, he's reasonable. Knowledgeable and has good reviews. I recommend using golfmk7.com and asking locals for good recommendations.
What’s the name of the shop ?
Gut werkz garage in Bayonne nj
$100 bucks? Man, I was saving mine thinking I could maybe get a bit more than that back. Lmao I'm just gonna put it on the wife's 350z I guess. Ahaha
You can find used is38s for about 300
FCP IS38 time.
Take it from me, who blew my engine racing in Germany, amongst a slew of other small issues I’ve had to deal with over the years of having my MK7…. ANY repair less than 3k is better than a 4 year + new car payment
$2,800 is enough to get a EQT Vortex XL, Downpipe, Intercooler, and a tune! Time to smack v8s with your new found 400WHP! Or if we wish to be boring... [https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-vw-is20-turbocharger-ihi-06k145874m](https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-vw-is20-turbocharger-ihi-06k145874m) There are plenty guides on how to do this swap yourself. Hardest part is just knowing it will take 5+ hours if you don't know wtf you are doing. But if you have tools and know how to use them, you'll be closer to the 3 hour mark. Oh adapting/calibrating the wastegate might be an issue if you dont have OBD11/Cobb Accessport/Vagcom/Carly(?) and that one damn oil or coolant line that wont detach from the turbo might make you crazy for 10 minutes or so! If you're a hands off kinda guy, buy the is20, and ask your local VW facebook group for a local indy shop. If you want to save even more money, the job is easy enough that the one 'vw enthusiast with the kitted out garage that loves wrenching on VWs' might do it for a few hundred and some beers!
When ever my is20 shits the bed I’m planning on a 38
If your within traveling distance to NE Indiana, I has a used IS20 I’d give you. 70k miles no shaft play. Wastegate actuator already installed.
Gotta be crazy to pay $3000 for an IS20. You can even get a proper big turbo kit for that money
APR DTR is $1500 with software (before install)
It’s posts like this that make me start to worry. I’m a 2016, I’m stage two, and I have 120,000 miles. I’m wondering when the shoe is going to drop for me.
It could happen at any time or you could be good for another 100k….. Start saving up so you have some cushion if it does happen.
2017 SE here that’s been stage 1 since new car break in. 198,000 miles on mine and not a day in the shop. When something does go wrong, I’ll fix it. The car has been so damn reliable and still purrs like a kitten.
Now this is what I like to hear! 2016 Stage 1 at 99k
I mean, turbos don't last forever.
More boost means more stress on the turbo. The good news is it doesn't actually cost that much to replace an IS20 unless you pay the dealer.
I have 220k on my is20 so don’t be too worried. It’s been beaten on too
Just fyi my turbo failed on my 2017 gti and VW ended up replacing it under warranty. Stage 1 tune and all. Depends on what happened to your turbo but might be worth looking into.
Same here, look up PZEV warranty.
How many miles?
About 70-80k
Came here to say the same thing
i got a used is20 from a 7.5 gti after grenading on the highway for me (car is stage 1 downpipr and tune making 325 crank), turbo was maybe a year old at the time and it is still running strong (i sold the car but know the owner)
Much cheaper to get a new turbo than buy a new car. Get creative - another quote or find rebuilt and DIY, etc. Selling it would be taking a big hit, obviously, bc bad turbo.
It’s not 2800 for a fuckin turbo lol cmon man how you own a GTI and don’t know basic prices
Dude probably got it diagnosed and quoted at the dealer.
I’m in the Chicagoland area and the lowest quote I found was the dealerships $2800. I called the popular (non-dealership) shops, multiple dealerships, and smaller, not-well known shops. $2800 is the going cost here for parts and labor on a full turbo replacement.
New turbo is 1k, install about 600-800, DP, intercooler and tune.. 2k or more.
If you're seeking advice or asking for help, please make sure you included the basic information of what year and/or generation is being discussed. User flair with this information is also acceptable. Failure to include the basic information may result in your post being removed. Mileage, modifications, trim level, diagnostic trouble codes, and your general location (US, Canada, EU, UK, etc.) can also be very helpful. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GolfGTI) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well I can tell you nobody is going to buy a car with a blown turbo for a whole lot. Get it fixed.
Perfect excuse to up to stage 2, get a downpipe and intercooler, and put a bigger turbo in
I would buy the Garrett GT2260S for 1500 on Ecs, one of the best turbos and u can go for 400 hp without going full load
Lmao get a used is38, I found one for $650 Canadian dollars with 40k on it.
I call that an opportunity to upgrade
Sounds to me like a good time for the IS38. I’ll go cry in my stock turbo mk6 though.