A good result and bad result will look pretty similar visually. 2-3 degrees is all it takes. You cant tell 2° at impact unless a super slow mo camera. Ill post a picture that shows a face 3° open and for a drive of 240 yards its 38 yards off line. If you hit it 300 its probably closer to 48-50 yards offline. You can barely tell its open and its in the woods on majority of holes. (This is with a 0 degree path)
https://preview.redd.it/8fv9xxa8rr8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38baef9340bdd02418df5dc124ca54d2093e7f2e
This realization helped me alot in my game. Hit a bad drive and im thinking how poor of a swing it was in reality the difference between perfect and horrible is 3° which is half of the distance of one second hand tick on a clock.
In regards to the swing. Tweak your set up a bit your shoulder line is pointed left this will encourage a left path. The knees are a little over bent and the rear knee then doesnt lose alot of flex in backswing. Youre a little over the top of the plane which means left path. Left path you need a slightly open face to make the ball land on the target line. To get a more neutral path try and keep your back to the target in the intial part of the downswing. Right shoulder back, etc. itll stop that right shoulder from flying out, influencing a left path. Its a nice swing. Tweak the set up, slightly more neutral path should make it easier to square up more repeatedly.
Point very well made. The shittiest technique is able to produce great results from time to time. And that makes the technique shitty, it is unreliable. A bit like the analogy with the broken watch that shows the right time two times per day.
Exactly why we shouldn't be hitting driver unless we have a wide enough landing area. Doesn't matter how good we think we are, our left to right dispersion will always be much more than a higher lofted club. Personally I can hit my 4i over 200 yards and very straight. My game has changed a lot from leaving driver in the bag except for very wide par 4s and but I'm being honest most 5s because I always have to go for it on a par 5.
If I tee off with an iron on a par 5, why am I even playing golf lmao.
When I was young and playing golf a lot (worked at a club), I did pretty much the same. I hit irons well but could be off with woods.
I put the woods in "time out" and carried 1-S and a putter.
Data shmata, if you hit driver with little dispersion than it is a weapon for you and you should use it obviously, but the data is very clear that left right dispersion should be less on average with higher lofted clubs
its his hands are ahead of his club. leaves the club face open. he needs to work on his timing.
some people have more snap on their wrists at the moment of impact which can also work to eliminate the slice.
The left has a slightly more over the top move if you watch the hands and shoulders at the start of the down swing. There isn’t much margin for error in your swing. You walk a fine line between bombs and slices. This will give you more room for error.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7IDXJ5SW8Y/?igsh=MXBjZHNxZzJlcDdjdQ==
This will fuck up your swing for life don’t do it. This is a shallowing move that almost all amateurs will think is done with the shoulders instead of the hands/wrists. If you have an inside takeaway like this guy does and add this in it’s going to be hooks and chunks all day. Work on either taking it way outside which means there’s no way in hell you can come in over the top or keep taking it away inside and feel your arms drop into your right pocket on the down swing to get back on plane. Whichever works. It’s a temporary fix but will work on the course until you get your swing more on plane
ya. his timing is off. weight transfer is off and made up by swinging his arms to catch up.
when they dont catch up fast enough he slices.. if its faster its a pull. but to him it looks straight.
Had to look at this again and you're right. OtT move on right is less apparent but it's still there. The one on the left is extreme beyond correction by the hands.
On the take back, you opened your hands immediately on the slice. It stays open all the way through.
https://preview.redd.it/3ankn6qi0s8d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d177121cbbde61c1f724a92fc6d77ad37acc9fc
Look at the club head paused right here. On the slice, it’s already open. Your wrists are already broken over and you’re not even elevating the club yet. The wrists should break at the top of the swing. The movement of the hands also causes a more over-the-top downswing. It’s subtle, but it’s there.
https://preview.redd.it/935g2c168f9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1936b441d760651db01c3401ef6d840ec9d82939
Another picture to emphasize how quickly they become different swing paths.
Instead of trying to guess based on the framerate of whatever camera you used, go find someplace with a good launch monitor and get some data on face angle, path, F2P etc.
It's 2024, there's no need for guesswork :-)
I know of apartment complexes that have golf sim rooms as a perk. Go make a friend, book the room. Or go to a Golf Galaxy and bring your own driver. If you show up when it's not busy and say, "I want to see if the new stuff is better than my driver" you can hit your own for a few minutes.
That shit's free man!
Good advice, but only if the golfer is able to do something with the numbers. And lets face it, most do not. And thats even ignoring the fact that comparing two shots has next to no relevance at all... but I guess that also applies to this video here.
I mean, he can "do something" with aesthetic advice, but that something is just as likely to be exactly wrong for his actual results. Why guess?
If the golfer isn't able to do something with the numbers, what's the chances they'll do something useful with advice based on how the swing looks? Bad, I'd say.
I agree. I don't have enough experience but my assumption would be, that it is easier to at least attempt to change a movement when seeing it on screen. Rather than seeing some numbers. I mean, don't get me wrong, I see your point, the numbers will tell him, whether his path and attack angle are ok or not but he'd still have to find out, why that is.
I am actually shocked to see so many comments in here attempting to draw any conclusions from this video. To me, that points to a misunderstanding - And apparently one that is widely spread: that when the ball flight is good, that the technique must have been good. And only on bad shots there are some "flaws" to be seen. I mean, isn't it fundamental knowledge that even the worst technique can occasionally produce a good result?
I guess I'm saying, unless he has numbers telling him what the ball is doing, and what his path and AoA are doing, trying to change his swing wouldn't even have a clear goal. Without a measurement of "Here's what is happening that I want to improve," how could he possibly know if any changes are working or not, other than by some arbitrary visual standard?
This is it. People correctly saying club face but ignoring the cause. The slice swing was off tempo, possibly rushed or reaching for more power causing the head to arrive to the ball faster, thus slightly open. Other swing was on tempo, arms/body working on schedule.
not exactly the same swing . look at where the club path crosses your shoulder on both swings. also not dead straight looks like you are pulling left which makes sense given the club path. also looks like you are hitting different angles of attack. the first you are hitting on the upswing, the second you are hitting on the downswing.
also slice is always open club face in relation to swing path so no need to compare anything.
https://preview.redd.it/417k22tgpr8d1.jpeg?width=1619&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f3449154413b9cf8ebcf195a22fb045fca2c4a1
you basically got lucky on the straight-ish one
your body knows your swing and your hands compensate to try to get the face lined up. That time it did but you're probably very inconsistent so that "straight" one isn't a repeatable swing. It just happened to line up.
You're rotating faster on the slice swing and your hips have cleared so fast you haven't had time to square or release the clubface. On the straight shot your hips don't clear as fast, clubface has time to rotate and ball takes off differently. Impact position on straight shot looks much better - even to untrained eye, you can see closer to pro position at impact. Some can call this whatever they want, pull .. etc, but the fact is you can play with the swing on the right, and do well, especially if you can putt and chip. The swing on the left will get you nowhere.
Disagree. The shoulders start the down swing and a casting of the club in the slice swing. The hips were too slow. The hips/lower body should start the down swing.
Look at the video more closely.
Left shoulder at impact and just after impact - much higher, bound up and constricted. Chicken wing, open clubface.
You can see more of his back on slice swing at impact and just after.
On the straight swing his hips have paused slightly (just like you see in lower handicap golfers) allowed the hands and arms to catch up and release the club - commonly called closing the clubface.
Head has stayed down and back much more.
Arms are much better extended at impact.
Matt Kutchar, Victor Hovland, Scottie Scheffler and many others, swing 'over the top.' It means almost nothing if the club is delivered to the ball with the physics that make it do what the player wants.
First of all, if you're aiming where the ball on the right went, you need to work on alignment first.
Second, which may be a result of #1, the video on the left your initial move is rotating shoulders which brings the club over the top. Try to keep the shoulder closed a bit longer (easier if you feel like your target is right)
Finally, understanding the basic physics of why shots do what they do can help you self diagnose. I'm no expert but if I'm slicing the ball on the range, I can usually straighten it out to be playable before a round
At impactful look at your legs - straighter in left than in right, suggesting over extension in the former. You else see a better shifting of lower body and hips up and forward in the right as a result
Your take away is fairly inside, on the “slice” swing
Your “dead straight” swing is still inside but not as much.
Your hands should disappear behind the club head in the video(directly behind you).
The swing is over the top for sure. BUT to answer YOUR question the reason the left is a slice and the right is “straight” albeit dead pull is because the difference in swing length in the backswing. Look at the top of the backswing. Very minor but the left is shorter than the right. That gives the right side fractionally more time to square up the clubface which results in club face matching path roughly which equates to straight pull.
That answers your question but that is not the answer to fixing your problems. Hopefully that can help you start to notice the details and differences and be able to get you on a better path both figuratively and literally.
Good luck! Just don’t take the game too seriously cuz then it sucks and isn’t fun at all! Cheers!
Slow motion scroll through both. You get to the top at the same time, but are way faster on the way down when you hit the slice.
Tempo is a big part of any golf swing.
Your feet, shoulders, clubface, and hips are not all in agreement about where you're aiming. Overall, it looks like the "dead straight" shot was a pull.
Look at the club face at takeaway. Club head hip length, slice is way behind your hip. It’s an outside in, over the top swing due to improper mechanics all around.
Square up. Get a more neutral grip, think about your club face at impact being like a forehand tennis shot, your club should swing up and through the ball pushing it straight forward. Slow it down
Also, wtf you doing with that lead foot bro? Keep that bitch planted. Your connection to the ground is where you get your swing power from, not from your arms. Try to keep a towel tucked between your side and right elbow so you stop coming over the top.
You came over the top on the first (think more loading up with an axed to hit a tree), and you stayed behind the ball on the second and kept good balance through contact. Very subtle difference. I do the first sometimes when my head moves toward the target or dips slightly right before contact too
Ignoring the fact the "dead straight" shot went miles left. Wrist cupped at the top much more on the slice, and you never get it back prior to impact, so there is an open clubface
Funny thing is, your slice swing is more on plane than your straight swing. You were more over the top on your straight swing, but you most likely squared the club face up better
On your slice swing you're coming inside too quickly. From the position that gets you at the top, you'll see yourself coming over the top. It's a typical "fat man fade" habit (not saying you're fat just the kind of swing you'll see from someone who is)
It’s subtle but one thing I notice on the slice swing is your hands begin the downswing by coming back towards the front of your body. Less so in the other. That move right there is the definition of “over the top”
Your right shoulder is moving forward *much* faster toward the ball on the slice video as the club is approaching the ball.
This often happens during repetitious range ball beating while searching for more length.
Try keeping your right shoulder back as you come into impact, and rotate smoother not faster to attain length.
Disclaimer:
I'm not a golfing professional ;]
https://preview.redd.it/kcyecgw6it8d1.jpeg?width=1446&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b607410fdf08aa7be9ce55540932d3637a77aa3
Compare your club head positions from the 9th second.
Left was struck on the toe. Right was struck middle. Middle of the face generates less spin than a miss hit. Hence a slice on toe. Both club paths are out to in. Shot on the right most likely a gentle fade back to center.
Over the top, outside in, just different club face angle on impact. Outside in over the top produces slices with driver unless you square up the club face perfectly, very little room for error with that swing.
Looks like slight 'casting' at the top in transition to downswing. Don't try to hit with your right hand at the top, let your weight shift to your left side and your right elbow drop to your right side. Let the left hand lead the downswing through impact, the right hand releases just after you hit the ball.
Look at your tempo, on the takeaway you’re synced up but on the left you’re hitting the ball a solid fraction of a second earlier. Your hands look like they’re getting in front of your body
Besides what everyone else has stated I’m not sure what’s going on with your feet. Are you trying to over exaggerate your weight transfer? If so then ok. Your left foot coming off the ground is just so extreme otherwise.
If you weren’t practicing on weight transfer knock that off. You’re killing your swing, tempo, and accuracy by doing this. Check out the below but look up weight transfer to get even more ideas.
Also, Scheffler goes through a new pair of shoes every two weeks and he murders the ball off the tee. His front foot is fairly calm on his backswing. On follow through he’s pushing so hard off his back foot the front foot curls/turns into the grass. I always tell everyone calm feet are accurate feet.
https://youtu.be/g_OgxMZqimo?si=KoGaTZwk5858ZpIh
Your slice swing starts the downswing with the shoulders and causes you to lean towards the ball then away from it. While the straight one your downswing starts in your hips.
Another tip. You are standing way too far from the ball. You should have your arms straight down at address
When your takeaway reaches the edge of the mat, pause it. The straight is lined through the ball at the #4, the slice at #9. Inside takeaway will more likely end up with an over the top delivery.
‘Dead straight’ in this case is dead straight left. You matched the club face to the path and pulled the ball left. The slice had a more open face. Basically the difference is timing.
The shoulders start the downswing on the left so the casting motion creates an over the top swing and an out to in motion with an open club face at impact. The downswing on the right is slightly over the top but the hips start to release earlier helping the club face arrive more square at the ball. The back swing on the left is more upright as well. The objective is to be able to repeat the same motion consistently. Easier said than done.
The only big difference Between the two videos is that your club got to the ball a lot quicker on the slice video. That makes sense because you gave the club more time to square up instead of quickly yanking it down and through which left the face open.
I think that’s what’s going on technically, but in terms of what you should do, it would be correcting the over the top move so you have more room for error like the other guy said.
I see your shoulders being more open at impact on the left. Opening up too fast forcing you to rush the club to the ball by pulling around your body. This creates a more out to in swing path. On the left video, look at where the club is when it crosses the edge of the mat.
Your shoulders are quieter in the right video giving you time to get your hands through the ball. The path is still out to in, but if you look at where the club crosses the edge of the mat, it’s much closer to the target line than on the left.
One on the left looks a little early meaning your pulling your body into the follow through before your clubs there one on the right looks mint tempo is right
That didn’t go dead straight, you pulled it.
You swing way over the top, that can produce some “straight shots” but overall will hold you back on the course.
Going to be hard to be consistent with an over-the-top and steep swing. I'd recommend learning to get more of a swallow and on-plane swing. Getting swallow with change your life.
Watch Dr kwon rope swing and re-programming videos on YouTube. You’re a bigger dude, you could crush the ball just use your legs and trunk instead of arms
Slice swing - clubhead rolls inside the hands at P2 (hands about pocket height) which leads to a laid off position at the top which leads to the over the top move to be able to even hit the ball somewhat competently which causes a glancing blow across the ball with an open club face leading to the slice. I would be willing to be this is mostly the swing fault you commit most often.
“Dead straight” swing - the ball actually starts left and stays left so it’s straight but it’s a pull so not really straight to target. You actually keep your hands and clubhead together this time. At p2 they’re in line with your feet which is good. But then your over the top move causes you to pull it as your swing path is now out to in.
Ways to fix this - you need to ingrain hands in, clubhead out from takeaway to P2 first. Like really ingrain it, film yourself at home doing it over and over and over again. Then you need to fix your over the top pattern, there’s tons of shallowing content out there so I would find what works for you as a mental cue to do so.
Looks like You flip your wrist open a little bit on the left video. It’s barely noticeable. But upon take away- your first move is flipping the wrist vs video on the right, it looks like you have firmer wrists and a slightly more closed face during take away.
As everyone is saying, you are over the top so the only difference is you managed to rescue it with your hands.
PUT A GOLF GLOVE UNDER YOUR RIGHT ARMPIT. start with 3/4 swings, aim is to keep it trapped under the armpit until the balls gone.
That will force you to come from the inside. If you want a drill that will encourage not force you to do that send me a message.
Oh when you have mastered that and want extra distance but one under the left armpit too (or a wrap a towel across your chest and trap it under both pits)
Wow. Thank you all for the feedback. I have never been able to control my swing or make it consistent. My club speed has always been way too fast (112mph) and I try to slow it down to achieve the rhythm. I just found any exercises that work. Any ideas on exercises? (YouTube/Instagram links appreciated). I just want to be able to find my ball on the course. Losing 10 balls a round is unacceptable. Fun fact, I actually lost 4 balls in a simulator once. So that should give you and idea of where my game is.
Pretend like you have a cast on your left hand and wrist. Most slices are because your wrist and hand are not coming back to the same position. That’s why it looks like the same on the video.
Slice swing has an OTT move at the top of the backswing when you transition into the downswing. Some will say this is caused by an inside takeaway, but the takeaway on the dead straight swing is still slightly inside so to me is not the root cause.
Did you try to kill the slice drive? Sometimes trying to add that extra oomph causes the OTT move.
The biggest difference to my eye is the few frames with 12 seconds left. It’s hard to describe but even though your body position looks really close, if you watch your club they are in vastly different positions. When you slice it, the club is coming through a lot more rushed in comparison to the straight shot your arms and club are one straight line to impact at the ball. In the straight shot even tho your hands are pointed straight down at the ball your club is still at like a 45 degree position behind the ball.
Left shoulder was more pulled up to ear at impact on slice shot. Pulling left shoulder up will open clubface. Focus on keeping it down or pulling it back
https://preview.redd.it/q7n0m2lepy8d1.png?width=1010&format=png&auto=webp&s=e009ae750aad0209328571f82f48551a8983ad82
Here is where I found it most noticeable. The right elbow/forearm is in a completely opposite position on the right (pointing straight down, as you were taught, as opposed to near horizontal, on the left).
Both swings are over the top with an out to in swing path. Club face direction at impact causes start line. So the swing on the left the face was open at impact. On the swing on the right, the face was left of target, causing a pull. If it faded back to being straight, it was a pull-fade, because the face was open relative to the swing path
Notice the time you impact the ball is different? The “dead straight” you have a lot more lag or time before the club reaches the ball. That little extra time is helping you close the club face and get your hips turned more. The left one is a shorter swing and if you try doing this in slow motion, you’ll notice your face will be open every time.
Big difference actually. You have to look halfway down the downswing. You cast and loose your angle big time in the slice. You hold on and stay inside and wait to release it later in the dead straight one.
Applying effort from the top blows all the speed early and you slap at it. Waiting makes you drive it towards the target and releasing it at the ball and after to close it down and finish it off with acceleration.
Casting is like throwing a ball from behind you. Very un athletic.
You still are out side in and over the top. But you are still inside the ball on the straight one.
That’s the key. You can come outside in and still hit it good. You just can’t get outside the ball.
Example. If you take it back 10 deg inside and come 15 deg over the top? That’s horrible. If you take it back 10 deg inside and come over the top 5 deg, you will still be inside 5 deg. This is how you hit draws and fades correctly. You have to always be inside the ball.
If you want a good example. Find a from behind slow motion video of John Rham. He comes over the top slightly to hit a small fade, but the club stays inside the ball. That’s how you can come over the top and not slice it.
You were outside the ball from the casting with your hands. The straight one, your club was inside the ball.
It’s right when your club gets to about 9 o’clock on the slice swing. Go back and forth in the video from when the swings go from 10-9-8-7 o’clock and you’ll see the cast.
Theres your problem bud.
There is a pretty big difference in the two swings right at the transition to the down swing at about 13 seconds remaining in the video.
Also it looks like your “dead straight” shot is actually an over the top swing with a shut face that results in a straight shot that isn’t straight relative to the target line your body is on. This is hard to tell tho and depends on the camera angle
You just managed to get the clubhead square on the straight drive, but the reason you tend to slice is the start of your downswing. Notice how your back shoulder moves away from your body from the very beginning...that puts your swing on and outside-in swing path. Your back shoulder needs to move vertically down from the top as you allow gravity and momentum start the swing instead of torso rotation.
If you look carefully at the top of the swing, left side you make a slight reroute to a steeper downswing that isn't made on the right side video. Over the top/steep swings = slices.
https://imgur.com/a/N1G9Bis
one thing that might help a tad bit is working on your alignment, put some sticks down at your feet and see if you're lining up where you think you are. I don't think this is the big problem, but the reason it sticks out to me, is because you think that the shot on the right was dead straight. Which you probably thought it was when you were hitting the ball, but we can all clearly see, if you were attempting to line up with the direction of the mat, your ball shot off to the left hard.
Idk much about golf, but I don't own a little about biomechanics and physiology, in the left video, your hips are opening up a hair earlier than the "straight" video.
Club face is wide open on your slice at impact. Probably a result of below.
https://preview.redd.it/cvnf637w5s8d1.jpeg?width=820&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=780cc6e1570798662fe36743b13cd362837a5d55
This also set him up for an early extension on down swing. Hands are in the same place but club is way ahead in the slice where as the straight the club has proper lag and release
I think this is the realisation you needed to get out of analysing and back to feel. Stand over the ball and use all your time to visualise the ball flight and start/landing spot. Let your body sync it up. Golf is hard. Use the „magic“ in your brain to solve this hard puzzle, don‘t distract it from doing the work (by thinking about the swing). It‘s like throwing a piece of trash in the bin from a distance. The less you think about mechanics, the better you‘ll be. No training, no grinding, just throw.
A good result and bad result will look pretty similar visually. 2-3 degrees is all it takes. You cant tell 2° at impact unless a super slow mo camera. Ill post a picture that shows a face 3° open and for a drive of 240 yards its 38 yards off line. If you hit it 300 its probably closer to 48-50 yards offline. You can barely tell its open and its in the woods on majority of holes. (This is with a 0 degree path) https://preview.redd.it/8fv9xxa8rr8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38baef9340bdd02418df5dc124ca54d2093e7f2e This realization helped me alot in my game. Hit a bad drive and im thinking how poor of a swing it was in reality the difference between perfect and horrible is 3° which is half of the distance of one second hand tick on a clock. In regards to the swing. Tweak your set up a bit your shoulder line is pointed left this will encourage a left path. The knees are a little over bent and the rear knee then doesnt lose alot of flex in backswing. Youre a little over the top of the plane which means left path. Left path you need a slightly open face to make the ball land on the target line. To get a more neutral path try and keep your back to the target in the intial part of the downswing. Right shoulder back, etc. itll stop that right shoulder from flying out, influencing a left path. Its a nice swing. Tweak the set up, slightly more neutral path should make it easier to square up more repeatedly.
Point very well made. The shittiest technique is able to produce great results from time to time. And that makes the technique shitty, it is unreliable. A bit like the analogy with the broken watch that shows the right time two times per day.
You nailed it, it’s all about face to path
He’s casting big time. Face to path is next and is moot unless the casting is fixed. Why would you try to square up a castng release?
This makes me never want to play golf again.
Same…Its an impossible game
If you pause at impact, you can actually see his club is open in the slice and more closed in the straight shot.
Exactly why we shouldn't be hitting driver unless we have a wide enough landing area. Doesn't matter how good we think we are, our left to right dispersion will always be much more than a higher lofted club. Personally I can hit my 4i over 200 yards and very straight. My game has changed a lot from leaving driver in the bag except for very wide par 4s and but I'm being honest most 5s because I always have to go for it on a par 5. If I tee off with an iron on a par 5, why am I even playing golf lmao.
You havent seen me snap hook a 4 iron.
Or snap hook an 8 iron over 175 yards at the halfway house on a par 3. Worst chip back to the green.
When I was young and playing golf a lot (worked at a club), I did pretty much the same. I hit irons well but could be off with woods. I put the woods in "time out" and carried 1-S and a putter.
Took me far too long you meant one iron through sand wedge, lol I was thinking to myself, what is a 1-S, and how do I get one.....
Dude I can hook my gi 4 iron like 2 fairways over. Golf is a game very specific to each player
You should stop giving advice because all the data says this is completely wrong.
Data shmata, if you hit driver with little dispersion than it is a weapon for you and you should use it obviously, but the data is very clear that left right dispersion should be less on average with higher lofted clubs
Pause at impact. Slice club face is wide open.
yep. plus, the 'dead straight' is a 'dead straight pull'.
Yup. Over the top pull. So not dead straight.
Yup. Dead straight left
Yup. Straight left for dead
Yup. Dead left for straight
Dead. Yup for straight left.
I pooped my pants
Yep. Path is the same (out to in) so if the face is open to path it is a slice, the “dead straight” ball is a dead pull, with the face square to path.
This
Wow, no need to attack me like that! Maybe that's the way I was aiming.
Came here to say this.
Yes, but why?
Because he opened it and forgot to close it
its his hands are ahead of his club. leaves the club face open. he needs to work on his timing. some people have more snap on their wrists at the moment of impact which can also work to eliminate the slice.
The left has a slightly more over the top move if you watch the hands and shoulders at the start of the down swing. There isn’t much margin for error in your swing. You walk a fine line between bombs and slices. This will give you more room for error. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7IDXJ5SW8Y/?igsh=MXBjZHNxZzJlcDdjdQ==
This will fuck up your swing for life don’t do it. This is a shallowing move that almost all amateurs will think is done with the shoulders instead of the hands/wrists. If you have an inside takeaway like this guy does and add this in it’s going to be hooks and chunks all day. Work on either taking it way outside which means there’s no way in hell you can come in over the top or keep taking it away inside and feel your arms drop into your right pocket on the down swing to get back on plane. Whichever works. It’s a temporary fix but will work on the course until you get your swing more on plane
No argument but note that his second "straight" swing on the right he shallowed the shaft a bit more.
Crazy comment 😂
Both swings are over the top. But the club face was square to the path on the right. Face is open on the left.
What do you mean by over the top?
His club path is out to in.
The one on the right isn’t “dead straight” lol it’s a complete pull. Only difference is the club face, both swings are way over the top
ya. his timing is off. weight transfer is off and made up by swinging his arms to catch up. when they dont catch up fast enough he slices.. if its faster its a pull. but to him it looks straight.
Had to look at this again and you're right. OtT move on right is less apparent but it's still there. The one on the left is extreme beyond correction by the hands.
On the take back, you opened your hands immediately on the slice. It stays open all the way through. https://preview.redd.it/3ankn6qi0s8d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d177121cbbde61c1f724a92fc6d77ad37acc9fc Look at the club head paused right here. On the slice, it’s already open. Your wrists are already broken over and you’re not even elevating the club yet. The wrists should break at the top of the swing. The movement of the hands also causes a more over-the-top downswing. It’s subtle, but it’s there.
Scrolled too far to see the first comment on the takeaway. I noticed a difference instantly
https://preview.redd.it/935g2c168f9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1936b441d760651db01c3401ef6d840ec9d82939 Another picture to emphasize how quickly they become different swing paths.
Instead of trying to guess based on the framerate of whatever camera you used, go find someplace with a good launch monitor and get some data on face angle, path, F2P etc. It's 2024, there's no need for guesswork :-)
> go find someplace with a good launch monitor and get some data on face angle, path, F2P etc. And pay $150
$40 at my local dick's for 30 minutes, gives you all that info.
Cheaper to ask strangers for advice lol golf is expensive enough
Getting free advice on Reddit is expensive, when you factor in all the wrong answers.
I know of apartment complexes that have golf sim rooms as a perk. Go make a friend, book the room. Or go to a Golf Galaxy and bring your own driver. If you show up when it's not busy and say, "I want to see if the new stuff is better than my driver" you can hit your own for a few minutes. That shit's free man!
There are bars here in KC that have simulators as well.
Good advice, but only if the golfer is able to do something with the numbers. And lets face it, most do not. And thats even ignoring the fact that comparing two shots has next to no relevance at all... but I guess that also applies to this video here.
I mean, he can "do something" with aesthetic advice, but that something is just as likely to be exactly wrong for his actual results. Why guess? If the golfer isn't able to do something with the numbers, what's the chances they'll do something useful with advice based on how the swing looks? Bad, I'd say.
I agree. I don't have enough experience but my assumption would be, that it is easier to at least attempt to change a movement when seeing it on screen. Rather than seeing some numbers. I mean, don't get me wrong, I see your point, the numbers will tell him, whether his path and attack angle are ok or not but he'd still have to find out, why that is. I am actually shocked to see so many comments in here attempting to draw any conclusions from this video. To me, that points to a misunderstanding - And apparently one that is widely spread: that when the ball flight is good, that the technique must have been good. And only on bad shots there are some "flaws" to be seen. I mean, isn't it fundamental knowledge that even the worst technique can occasionally produce a good result?
I guess I'm saying, unless he has numbers telling him what the ball is doing, and what his path and AoA are doing, trying to change his swing wouldn't even have a clear goal. Without a measurement of "Here's what is happening that I want to improve," how could he possibly know if any changes are working or not, other than by some arbitrary visual standard?
Comes down to face angle, path, and also its relativity to each other and the target.
Right backswing was a hair longer which allowed the body to rotate more so the clubface was more closed at impact.
This is it. People correctly saying club face but ignoring the cause. The slice swing was off tempo, possibly rushed or reaching for more power causing the head to arrive to the ball faster, thus slightly open. Other swing was on tempo, arms/body working on schedule.
Exactly. The hips/lower body should start the down swing and be in sync with or slightly ahead of arms and shoulders.
not exactly the same swing . look at where the club path crosses your shoulder on both swings. also not dead straight looks like you are pulling left which makes sense given the club path. also looks like you are hitting different angles of attack. the first you are hitting on the upswing, the second you are hitting on the downswing. also slice is always open club face in relation to swing path so no need to compare anything. https://preview.redd.it/417k22tgpr8d1.jpeg?width=1619&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f3449154413b9cf8ebcf195a22fb045fca2c4a1
you basically got lucky on the straight-ish one your body knows your swing and your hands compensate to try to get the face lined up. That time it did but you're probably very inconsistent so that "straight" one isn't a repeatable swing. It just happened to line up.
Slice swing you were casting (among other things)
Dead straight lol
You're rotating faster on the slice swing and your hips have cleared so fast you haven't had time to square or release the clubface. On the straight shot your hips don't clear as fast, clubface has time to rotate and ball takes off differently. Impact position on straight shot looks much better - even to untrained eye, you can see closer to pro position at impact. Some can call this whatever they want, pull .. etc, but the fact is you can play with the swing on the right, and do well, especially if you can putt and chip. The swing on the left will get you nowhere.
Disagree. The shoulders start the down swing and a casting of the club in the slice swing. The hips were too slow. The hips/lower body should start the down swing.
Look at the video more closely. Left shoulder at impact and just after impact - much higher, bound up and constricted. Chicken wing, open clubface. You can see more of his back on slice swing at impact and just after. On the straight swing his hips have paused slightly (just like you see in lower handicap golfers) allowed the hands and arms to catch up and release the club - commonly called closing the clubface. Head has stayed down and back much more. Arms are much better extended at impact. Matt Kutchar, Victor Hovland, Scottie Scheffler and many others, swing 'over the top.' It means almost nothing if the club is delivered to the ball with the physics that make it do what the player wants.
That’s not what I see. Slice is from casting or over the top move. It’s that simple.
The slice swing and the dead pull are the same. Your hands and club face are just in a slightly different position at impact.
First of all, if you're aiming where the ball on the right went, you need to work on alignment first. Second, which may be a result of #1, the video on the left your initial move is rotating shoulders which brings the club over the top. Try to keep the shoulder closed a bit longer (easier if you feel like your target is right) Finally, understanding the basic physics of why shots do what they do can help you self diagnose. I'm no expert but if I'm slicing the ball on the range, I can usually straighten it out to be playable before a round
At impactful look at your legs - straighter in left than in right, suggesting over extension in the former. You else see a better shifting of lower body and hips up and forward in the right as a result
Looks like you come quite a bit more over the top on the slice.
Turn better top of swing dead straight.
Your take away is fairly inside, on the “slice” swing Your “dead straight” swing is still inside but not as much. Your hands should disappear behind the club head in the video(directly behind you).
You have more lag in swing on right. The club has more time to square out to the ball. It’s not ‘dead straight’ though
If you swing path looks the same and you get different results, it's your club face, there's no magic here.
Bad transition on the slice swing causing you to get out of synch
What’s funny is that the slice swing is a little better you just didn’t close the face
You pull up
Look at your hands in relation to your shoulder on your down swing. Your hand path goes over the top.
You’re over the top on both you just squared the face in second and hit a small pull. Get a lesson to swing more inside or you’ll slice forever.
your shoulders
The swing is over the top for sure. BUT to answer YOUR question the reason the left is a slice and the right is “straight” albeit dead pull is because the difference in swing length in the backswing. Look at the top of the backswing. Very minor but the left is shorter than the right. That gives the right side fractionally more time to square up the clubface which results in club face matching path roughly which equates to straight pull. That answers your question but that is not the answer to fixing your problems. Hopefully that can help you start to notice the details and differences and be able to get you on a better path both figuratively and literally. Good luck! Just don’t take the game too seriously cuz then it sucks and isn’t fun at all! Cheers!
Face angle.
Yes.
Slow motion scroll through both. You get to the top at the same time, but are way faster on the way down when you hit the slice. Tempo is a big part of any golf swing.
The sliced shot is very slightly out to in compared to the straight shot
Club face, that is the only thing I can pick up from this. I can see you turning it up at the top of your swing on the left.
Your feet, shoulders, clubface, and hips are not all in agreement about where you're aiming. Overall, it looks like the "dead straight" shot was a pull.
Look at the club face at takeaway. Club head hip length, slice is way behind your hip. It’s an outside in, over the top swing due to improper mechanics all around. Square up. Get a more neutral grip, think about your club face at impact being like a forehand tennis shot, your club should swing up and through the ball pushing it straight forward. Slow it down
Also, wtf you doing with that lead foot bro? Keep that bitch planted. Your connection to the ground is where you get your swing power from, not from your arms. Try to keep a towel tucked between your side and right elbow so you stop coming over the top.
You came way over top on slice shot
You hit it on the heel with the straight shot, but it still would have sliced if you hit the centre
I would guess to say that your consistency would go up with keeping that front foot down, less movement in those feet my man.
You came over the top on the first (think more loading up with an axed to hit a tree), and you stayed behind the ball on the second and kept good balance through contact. Very subtle difference. I do the first sometimes when my head moves toward the target or dips slightly right before contact too
Ignoring the fact the "dead straight" shot went miles left. Wrist cupped at the top much more on the slice, and you never get it back prior to impact, so there is an open clubface
Funny thing is, your slice swing is more on plane than your straight swing. You were more over the top on your straight swing, but you most likely squared the club face up better
On your slice swing you're coming inside too quickly. From the position that gets you at the top, you'll see yourself coming over the top. It's a typical "fat man fade" habit (not saying you're fat just the kind of swing you'll see from someone who is)
It’s subtle but one thing I notice on the slice swing is your hands begin the downswing by coming back towards the front of your body. Less so in the other. That move right there is the definition of “over the top”
Your right shoulder is moving forward *much* faster toward the ball on the slice video as the club is approaching the ball. This often happens during repetitious range ball beating while searching for more length. Try keeping your right shoulder back as you come into impact, and rotate smoother not faster to attain length. Disclaimer: I'm not a golfing professional ;]
Pause right before your downswing
https://preview.redd.it/kcyecgw6it8d1.jpeg?width=1446&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b607410fdf08aa7be9ce55540932d3637a77aa3 Compare your club head positions from the 9th second.
Watch your right shoulder from the moment you transfer to the downswing. You get way out of whack at that point.
Watch over top
In the backswing, at 0:04-0:05 look how the head of the club is way more inside when you slice.
I see a difference between my definition of “dead straight” and yours.
Just three degrees with a driver is enough to create huge dispersion 200+ yards down range . . .
Both are way over the top, you just matched the clubface better on the straight one
Left was struck on the toe. Right was struck middle. Middle of the face generates less spin than a miss hit. Hence a slice on toe. Both club paths are out to in. Shot on the right most likely a gentle fade back to center.
Coming overtop on the slice, staying more inside on the dead straight. Look at the gap between your elbow and body at impact. I have the same problem.
Over the top, outside in, just different club face angle on impact. Outside in over the top produces slices with driver unless you square up the club face perfectly, very little room for error with that swing.
For sure. Take away, top of swing and downswing are both different.
Looks like slight 'casting' at the top in transition to downswing. Don't try to hit with your right hand at the top, let your weight shift to your left side and your right elbow drop to your right side. Let the left hand lead the downswing through impact, the right hand releases just after you hit the ball.
Look at your tempo, on the takeaway you’re synced up but on the left you’re hitting the ball a solid fraction of a second earlier. Your hands look like they’re getting in front of your body
One you hit the ball and one you swung the club.
It's a game of millimeters my mans
Pause at 12 seconds. Look how far from your body your right elbow is on the "slice" compared to the "dead straight"
Besides what everyone else has stated I’m not sure what’s going on with your feet. Are you trying to over exaggerate your weight transfer? If so then ok. Your left foot coming off the ground is just so extreme otherwise. If you weren’t practicing on weight transfer knock that off. You’re killing your swing, tempo, and accuracy by doing this. Check out the below but look up weight transfer to get even more ideas. Also, Scheffler goes through a new pair of shoes every two weeks and he murders the ball off the tee. His front foot is fairly calm on his backswing. On follow through he’s pushing so hard off his back foot the front foot curls/turns into the grass. I always tell everyone calm feet are accurate feet. https://youtu.be/g_OgxMZqimo?si=KoGaTZwk5858ZpIh
OTP on left vid
Learn the laws of ball flight
Your slice swing starts the downswing with the shoulders and causes you to lean towards the ball then away from it. While the straight one your downswing starts in your hips. Another tip. You are standing way too far from the ball. You should have your arms straight down at address
When your takeaway reaches the edge of the mat, pause it. The straight is lined through the ball at the #4, the slice at #9. Inside takeaway will more likely end up with an over the top delivery.
Face wide open in the slice
‘Dead straight’ in this case is dead straight left. You matched the club face to the path and pulled the ball left. The slice had a more open face. Basically the difference is timing.
The club path was slightly different
The shoulders start the downswing on the left so the casting motion creates an over the top swing and an out to in motion with an open club face at impact. The downswing on the right is slightly over the top but the hips start to release earlier helping the club face arrive more square at the ball. The back swing on the left is more upright as well. The objective is to be able to repeat the same motion consistently. Easier said than done.
You’re right. They both suck.
The only big difference Between the two videos is that your club got to the ball a lot quicker on the slice video. That makes sense because you gave the club more time to square up instead of quickly yanking it down and through which left the face open. I think that’s what’s going on technically, but in terms of what you should do, it would be correcting the over the top move so you have more room for error like the other guy said.
Slice v Dead Pull. Similar/same club path - different face orientation at impact. Slice is open and pull is along path.
I see your shoulders being more open at impact on the left. Opening up too fast forcing you to rush the club to the ball by pulling around your body. This creates a more out to in swing path. On the left video, look at where the club is when it crosses the edge of the mat. Your shoulders are quieter in the right video giving you time to get your hands through the ball. The path is still out to in, but if you look at where the club crosses the edge of the mat, it’s much closer to the target line than on the left.
Dead straight looks like it’s off the toe. Google gear effect. I think it’s the toe more than any face or path difference between the two swings.
Club head looks slightly faster on the slice; slightly more controlled on the DS
One on the left looks a little early meaning your pulling your body into the follow through before your clubs there one on the right looks mint tempo is right
That didn’t go dead straight, you pulled it. You swing way over the top, that can produce some “straight shots” but overall will hold you back on the course.
Regardless, you’re over the top on both. The slice one is even more obvious.
Going to be hard to be consistent with an over-the-top and steep swing. I'd recommend learning to get more of a swallow and on-plane swing. Getting swallow with change your life.
Watch Dr kwon rope swing and re-programming videos on YouTube. You’re a bigger dude, you could crush the ball just use your legs and trunk instead of arms
You do some little shift at the top of the swing on the slice. It almost looks like over rotation or kicking your shoulders back an extra touch
Slice swing - clubhead rolls inside the hands at P2 (hands about pocket height) which leads to a laid off position at the top which leads to the over the top move to be able to even hit the ball somewhat competently which causes a glancing blow across the ball with an open club face leading to the slice. I would be willing to be this is mostly the swing fault you commit most often. “Dead straight” swing - the ball actually starts left and stays left so it’s straight but it’s a pull so not really straight to target. You actually keep your hands and clubhead together this time. At p2 they’re in line with your feet which is good. But then your over the top move causes you to pull it as your swing path is now out to in. Ways to fix this - you need to ingrain hands in, clubhead out from takeaway to P2 first. Like really ingrain it, film yourself at home doing it over and over and over again. Then you need to fix your over the top pattern, there’s tons of shallowing content out there so I would find what works for you as a mental cue to do so.
The left is coming over the top. The right you stay flat and straight to your target. Very common mistake, it’s one of my favorites to make
Looks like You flip your wrist open a little bit on the left video. It’s barely noticeable. But upon take away- your first move is flipping the wrist vs video on the right, it looks like you have firmer wrists and a slightly more closed face during take away.
Over the top, early extension on the left. Better position at the top on the right, along with a much better backswing.
As everyone is saying, you are over the top so the only difference is you managed to rescue it with your hands. PUT A GOLF GLOVE UNDER YOUR RIGHT ARMPIT. start with 3/4 swings, aim is to keep it trapped under the armpit until the balls gone. That will force you to come from the inside. If you want a drill that will encourage not force you to do that send me a message. Oh when you have mastered that and want extra distance but one under the left armpit too (or a wrap a towel across your chest and trap it under both pits)
Golf is hard.
Wow. Thank you all for the feedback. I have never been able to control my swing or make it consistent. My club speed has always been way too fast (112mph) and I try to slow it down to achieve the rhythm. I just found any exercises that work. Any ideas on exercises? (YouTube/Instagram links appreciated). I just want to be able to find my ball on the course. Losing 10 balls a round is unacceptable. Fun fact, I actually lost 4 balls in a simulator once. So that should give you and idea of where my game is.
Yes on the down swing for the slice you came in way over the top compared to the dead straight swing
Top of your swing on the slice you are going outside in. Club head swings out and around.
Watch the shoulders, the slice one is slightly more over the top, coming down at the ball steeper than the dead straight
Pretend like you have a cast on your left hand and wrist. Most slices are because your wrist and hand are not coming back to the same position. That’s why it looks like the same on the video.
If you stop the video before impact, left side the face looks the slightly more open, and right side looks square
Slice swing has an OTT move at the top of the backswing when you transition into the downswing. Some will say this is caused by an inside takeaway, but the takeaway on the dead straight swing is still slightly inside so to me is not the root cause. Did you try to kill the slice drive? Sometimes trying to add that extra oomph causes the OTT move.
The biggest difference to my eye is the few frames with 12 seconds left. It’s hard to describe but even though your body position looks really close, if you watch your club they are in vastly different positions. When you slice it, the club is coming through a lot more rushed in comparison to the straight shot your arms and club are one straight line to impact at the ball. In the straight shot even tho your hands are pointed straight down at the ball your club is still at like a 45 degree position behind the ball.
Left shoulder was more pulled up to ear at impact on slice shot. Pulling left shoulder up will open clubface. Focus on keeping it down or pulling it back
https://preview.redd.it/q7n0m2lepy8d1.png?width=1010&format=png&auto=webp&s=e009ae750aad0209328571f82f48551a8983ad82 Here is where I found it most noticeable. The right elbow/forearm is in a completely opposite position on the right (pointing straight down, as you were taught, as opposed to near horizontal, on the left).
Both swings are over the top with an out to in swing path. Club face direction at impact causes start line. So the swing on the left the face was open at impact. On the swing on the right, the face was left of target, causing a pull. If it faded back to being straight, it was a pull-fade, because the face was open relative to the swing path
it requires an incredibly amount of skill to pull these off consistently
Notice the time you impact the ball is different? The “dead straight” you have a lot more lag or time before the club reaches the ball. That little extra time is helping you close the club face and get your hips turned more. The left one is a shorter swing and if you try doing this in slow motion, you’ll notice your face will be open every time.
Left is more shallow in the back, very steep, and over the top. The right is more steep on the back and less steep/overtop on the downswing.
Yes, you came over the top way more on the slice
Big difference actually. You have to look halfway down the downswing. You cast and loose your angle big time in the slice. You hold on and stay inside and wait to release it later in the dead straight one. Applying effort from the top blows all the speed early and you slap at it. Waiting makes you drive it towards the target and releasing it at the ball and after to close it down and finish it off with acceleration. Casting is like throwing a ball from behind you. Very un athletic. You still are out side in and over the top. But you are still inside the ball on the straight one. That’s the key. You can come outside in and still hit it good. You just can’t get outside the ball. Example. If you take it back 10 deg inside and come 15 deg over the top? That’s horrible. If you take it back 10 deg inside and come over the top 5 deg, you will still be inside 5 deg. This is how you hit draws and fades correctly. You have to always be inside the ball. If you want a good example. Find a from behind slow motion video of John Rham. He comes over the top slightly to hit a small fade, but the club stays inside the ball. That’s how you can come over the top and not slice it. You were outside the ball from the casting with your hands. The straight one, your club was inside the ball. It’s right when your club gets to about 9 o’clock on the slice swing. Go back and forth in the video from when the swings go from 10-9-8-7 o’clock and you’ll see the cast. Theres your problem bud.
Looked like the face was open more at the top for the slice and at impact. I also saw a difference in your wrists at the top.
It looks like your hips spin out more in your transition on your slice swing. It’s very subtle, but it’ll change your swing path to more left.
There is a pretty big difference in the two swings right at the transition to the down swing at about 13 seconds remaining in the video. Also it looks like your “dead straight” shot is actually an over the top swing with a shut face that results in a straight shot that isn’t straight relative to the target line your body is on. This is hard to tell tho and depends on the camera angle
The club is laid off at the top of your backswing in the slice video. I'd just pick a shot pattern that you can recreate every time and go with it.
Ball don't lie lol
You just managed to get the clubhead square on the straight drive, but the reason you tend to slice is the start of your downswing. Notice how your back shoulder moves away from your body from the very beginning...that puts your swing on and outside-in swing path. Your back shoulder needs to move vertically down from the top as you allow gravity and momentum start the swing instead of torso rotation.
If you look carefully at the top of the swing, left side you make a slight reroute to a steeper downswing that isn't made on the right side video. Over the top/steep swings = slices. https://imgur.com/a/N1G9Bis
one thing that might help a tad bit is working on your alignment, put some sticks down at your feet and see if you're lining up where you think you are. I don't think this is the big problem, but the reason it sticks out to me, is because you think that the shot on the right was dead straight. Which you probably thought it was when you were hitting the ball, but we can all clearly see, if you were attempting to line up with the direction of the mat, your ball shot off to the left hard.
Idk much about golf, but I don't own a little about biomechanics and physiology, in the left video, your hips are opening up a hair earlier than the "straight" video.
Club face is wide open on your slice at impact. Probably a result of below. https://preview.redd.it/cvnf637w5s8d1.jpeg?width=820&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=780cc6e1570798662fe36743b13cd362837a5d55
This also set him up for an early extension on down swing. Hands are in the same place but club is way ahead in the slice where as the straight the club has proper lag and release
I think this is the realisation you needed to get out of analysing and back to feel. Stand over the ball and use all your time to visualise the ball flight and start/landing spot. Let your body sync it up. Golf is hard. Use the „magic“ in your brain to solve this hard puzzle, don‘t distract it from doing the work (by thinking about the swing). It‘s like throwing a piece of trash in the bin from a distance. The less you think about mechanics, the better you‘ll be. No training, no grinding, just throw.