I don't understand racing well enough to properly assign fault. However, I do know enough to understand that it's fun to see competitive racing again.
I wonder who is to blame for Max's bad pit stop? This would have never happened if his lead didn't evaporate out of the pits.
Under FIA rules you are not allowed to change direction whilst under breaking, obv you can corner but cannot change your line.
Max was already around the corner and just had to maintain line and power out but as he was scared Lando would get him on the drive out of the corner he changed lines to block him resulting in an impact.
Lando could do nothing to get out of the way and had Max followed the rule the crash wouldn’t have happened
I believe with 20 laps or whatever it was mclaren would have closed the gap to have a few laps to attack.
I watched the onboard and I believe Max is at fault. He parks it in the middle to defend and you see him check left mirror approaching 50 meter marker and at the 50 meter marker he slightly turns the wheel to the left to close off the outside. The movement is very subtle. If
You watch Lando’s onboard you see the outside gap start closing since max angled to the outside from the middle.
You can’t move under braking to try and block another driver. That’s why they gave Max the penalty.
It was also a second defensive maneuver. Not sure the exact regulation but if I recall correctly you can only make one defensive maneuver. Max had already made his move to the middle to block the inside. Then he opened the wheel to close the outside at 50 marker.
Especially when he ran off the track to block! He needs to be taken down a notch. A fine and 5 place penalty for the next race might draw his attention to reality. Think of the cost to McLaren. He is not a required winner of all F1.
Rules and penalties should not be applied based off how they effect one team more than the other. Max moved over during braking and caused a collision. 10s is the appropriate penalty for this offense.
One rear wheel nut had to be retried a couple of times. Something like a 4 second stationary time ate up the gap from Norris, put them within a second apart..
The bad pit stop looked like a wheel gun fault on the rear left. Most likely not a cross thread or a broken gun because they get the nut off and back on but maybe the wheel gun operator didn’t hold the trigger long enough or it was on tighter than usual.
Add to the fact Lando was a few seconds behind and came in right after made it so they couldn’t release max as soon as they finished. Made a 4 sec stop into a 6.5 second stop.
I just hate that Max gets so aggressive whenever someone threatens his position. They either back out or he takes them, and often himself, out of the race.
I came to the realization the other day that I can’t say I dislike Max’s aggression then say Senna is my favorite driver. They have similar kill or be killed tendencies.
This is what frustrates me is people act like verstappen is the only one like this. This is a professional sport with so much on the line. Both drivers made mistakes, Max worse than Lando.
Um Lewis Hamilton leaving the apex to hit a passing verstappen? The one he went to the hospital for.
I think your taking my points wrong, you think max did this deliberately but I think this isn’t on purpose this is someone trying hard as they can, not to lose and sadly resulted in awful racing.
You want intentional wrecks go to a race sim or an amateur race. If max wanted to wreck him he could have easily done it without loosing spot. with a 10 second penalty he would have still been in first with 12 seconds from 3rd.
Max was awful this race but he isn’t someone trying to take people out.
It's already been well established that Max moved under breaking on each overtake attempt. It's clear to see in a lot of the in-depth analysis (youtube e.t.c). The rule against this was implemented a few years back because Max did it pretty much at every opportunity. There were multiple occasions where Lando wasn't even given a car width on the outside, which again is a clear rule. There is a reason Max was slapped with a penalty. He broke multiple rules to stay ahead, as simple as that.
I'm sure a lot of the hate is pure fanboyism, but the reason I personally dislike Verstappen is because he would likely still win most of the time, even if he drove clean. Anyone who says the best driver on the grid isn't Verstappen is kidding themselves, but he loses a lot of respect for pulling this shit the second he's under pressure.
Let’s be honestly there’s 2 reason why we have a lot of rules:
- Safety
- Unfair competition
As long as both cars stand to lose by touching I don’t see much of an unfair advantage, and it wasn’t really a dangerous corner either.
And we watch it primarily for the action on the track, not the results
And he was complaining "Why is he dive-bombing left and right? That's not how you overtake" when does it a lot
I think Lando was right in being that aggressive in the overtakes. It's the only way to make sure Max gives you the space and even then you run into trouble. It's like trying to race Magnussen
Sorry but you didn’t see Norris dive bombing on max a few times?
That’s the way great drivers drive, aggressive and willing to go as far as possible to win. If you lack that mentality you will go nowhere in racing.
There’s nothing wrong with a lunge.
It’s part of racing and something you learn and practice early in in karting.
Otherwise you just sit there following.
There’s a lot of timing involved and the further back you come from the harder that is.
Normally If you fully commit and even arrive early there is no accident as the driver being passed can turn under you.
If you arrive late after turn in that’s when accidents happen.
Norris was appropriately penalised for track limits when he arrived early and too fast.
Max was a bit over the top as the passing driver commits to that braking zone and if the car in front moves in that zone - doesn’t have to be much - then you’re almost guaranteed contact as all the grip available to the passer is being used to brake.
The rule isn’t moving in the braking zone its moving under braking. If max moved but wasn’t braking he did nothing wrong.
Lando pushed max off track a few times too
That’s all hard racing.
The collision was on Max and he got a penalty for it.
You’ll have accidents galore if the front driver does that as you can just slightly roll off the brake and use the now available grip to shift off line 30cm while the passer is threshold braking and whammo.
Yeah sure.
You have a finite amount of grip for turning, accelerating, and decelerating.
A lunge pass you will aim at a corridor and dedicate all your grip to deceleration.
You need to arrive alongside the car you’re passing before they turn.
The trust you put in each other is that they won’t start moving until the turn in point.
If they move during the braking part of the process it will come as a massive shock as the corridor you are aiming for suddenly narrows and you don’t have the grip to move as all your grip is dedicated to braking.
You could be sneaky in front and threshold brake roll off brake slightly and shift the car then get back on the brake again.
So technically you haven’t moved under braking.
That’s why it’s the braking zone and not really the moving under braking that’s the issue.
Try and steer your road car while you threshold brake - you won’t be able to move - at best you’ll lock a tire.
From this angle you see Max squeezing too much leading to the contact plus he messes his line (prolly not as intentionally, already puncture maybe).
Do not see a problem with the first instance, it's called racing, you try to overtake and I try to cover.
He had a much more significant move under braking prior to the incident. He also should have had to give up the position since he left the track and gained and advantage.
He tried to get to the inside many times in the laps prior. Max was defending well. Also if they're already braking there is no backing out since the car is already at its limit
The old Max returns. This doesn't even show the illegal double moves he did prior to running into Norris. The 10 second penalty is total BS. He should have been black flagged.
Max’s entire career built on this arcade game driving bs. Yet again, pushes the competitor off the road and deliberately blocks their return effort. Should have been his car that was ruined as a result instead of Norris. I can’t wait until he either learns actual race craft or retires.
It was his MO until Newey built Red Bull a rocket and let Max cruise uninterrupted at the front for the last two years. Now there is - finally! - some real competition, we see the return of Max The Amazing Crashstappen and I am here for it.
Does the ten second penalty indicate that the FIA have learned something In the interim and will apply the rules regardless of how much income Verstappen generates for the sport? Time will tell.
However it pans out, it was nice to see some action at the front after two years of parades. Rivalry? Bring it on. That is what makes any sport more interesting.
Verstappen is a dick. He's had the superior car for at least 3 years, and now the others have caught up with him, particularly Lando, he behaving like a spoilt child. He needs receive suitable sanctions for his behaviour.
Great to see close racing in F1 and not the same winner every race (Max, Lewis, Sebastian, Michael etc.). Max in this scenario moved left under breaking, cutting Norris off the road. I'm hoping the next race has close racing but doesn't end so badly.
Ahh the good old max. Can’t beat the competition so pushes them off track. He’s been lucky his cars so fast the last few seasons. This is just a repeat of the dirty moves he did to Hamilton back in 2021.
Max is such a hardcore bully when he races
i dont know enough to know when it becomes dirty but man its a different type of race when youre racing for 1st place.
I mean. It’s close but this is a max issue to me pretty clearly, he will not move for anyone and unless you crash into him you won’t overtake. Same with Lewis in 21.. he’s just too stubborn. Like a young Lewis tbh lol
I respect hard racing. But Max moving in the braking zone has been an issue since he got into F1. The other drivers should stop being afraid to pass him, its like they fear him when it comes to hard racing battles
Every driver does this. I’ve witnessed many races where drivers complain about another driver moving in the braking zone. There’s an art to riding the line enough to avoid a penalty. This particular instance, I think Max just thought Lando would be slightly father to the left but misjudged it.
That may be so. But he has a reputation for not leaving space for another driver (2021 season...) Guess thats why he is a world champion. More hard racing for the rest of the season please
Anyone defending that move is a knucklehead I was going to say something worse but I'm going to police myself you can clearly see that verstappen swerved multiple times and intentionally ran Norris off the track. That was after he had already swung wide to cut him off and he ran off the track himself so if that's not overly aggressive then they may as well change the sport to bumper cars. Those same crybabies were in tears when him and Lewis got into it and verstappen was the aggressive driver and expected Lewis to back out and let him pass. Lewis never swerved like verstappen did in that video but they're hypocrites and can't see the truth right in front of their faces. Those same people were angry and crying saying that Lewis's car was way faster than the rest but when verstappen's car was faster mums the word. We see you and know exactly the type of people you are.
Drivers are allowed to squeeze each other off track on corner exit. On corner entry, the outside driver is entitled to a car’s width. So the incident is definitely on Verstappen. Though many are making this out to be more than it is. I don’t think Verstappen did anything egregious here. I’ve seen examples of this corner approach from other defenses and Verstappen’s maneuver was pretty typical. I think he just expected Norris to use more of the kerb on the approach, but misjudged it and worst case scenario happened.
So you're telling me that if you were Norris you would finish the race and go high five verstappen and tell him nice move and not be angry that he ran you wide then swerved at least two times to push you off the track. To know how egregious those moves were just listen to the spectators who saw it firsthand unfolding right in front of them look at the video 100 times until you get the picture because obviously your judgment is blurred by your bias.
I’m just expressing how I see it. Not everyone is so concerned with defending one driver over another. No need to be so paranoid over bias. Take the argument as is rather than attempting to paint me as unreasonable for a simple disagreement. If I was as biased as you accuse, I’d probably be seeing this as much more black and white, and making it personal, as you seem to be.
I think it was a mistake on Verstappen’s part and I can see how it was made. It wasn’t as belligerent as you frame it. As I said before, other drivers defended similarly in that corner but Verstappen likely misjudged Norris’ position. I think Norris was also pretty aggressive in his attempts to overtake Verstappen, but I understand why he was so aggressive. I’ve watched the incident from multiple angles. I’ve also listened to a fair amount of analysis on the matter and it seems to agree with that description. Whether one driver likes it or not isn’t really indicative of what reflects reality.
Obviously you don't watch f1 or you would know that what we're all seeing is Verstappen's signature move because he's done it with so many other drivers and is why him and Lewis Hamilton got into a few wrecks and tried to blame Hamilton at the time everyone was in denial but hopefully they will figure it out. Before you start giving out your free opinions maybe you should watch other races with Verstappen and see how many other times he's done the same shyt like in that video so it's not an accident or mistake but when he wants to pass they had better get out of his way or he would do what he did to Lewis and crash both of them out of the race hence the name Crashtappen and as far as my paranoia I guess that you're a doctor and quick to jump to conclusions and if anyone is caught up in their feelings mister pot calling the kettle black. Enjoy your day.
Again, you’re taking this way too personally. I don’t have to be a doctor to see how emotionally invested you are with this
I’ll admit I’m a bit of a new fan. Started watching in 2020 but I’ve gone back to watch quite a bit of the past two decades of formula 1. I’m well aware of Verstappen’s *reputation* as a crash instigator. I emphasize “reputation” because many drivers are painted a certain way by viewers without it really being justified. He certainly is aggressive and definitely forces other drivers to back out but I don’t think he does anything that other drivers on the grid have not or are not willing to do aswell. At best the reputation appeals to Verstappen in his first couple of seasons. Hamilton had a bit of reputation as a crash artist in the first half of his career aswell but his time with Merc has caused that to dissipate. Similarly Vettel has had some high profile incidents where he pushed over the line. But history has been kind to them because it was years ago.
I’ll reiterate the point, the way Verstappen defended the corner is no way unique to him. We have clips of other drivers doing the exact same thing in the exact same corner. If anything, my newness to the sport gives weight to that argument. Despite being a fan for only four years, I’ve seen numerous instances just like this. That’s why I don’t think Verstappen did anything egregious. It was a simple misjudgment with the worst possible outcome. This is not a unique sentiment. You can find this conclusion from multiple analysis sources.
You can see Verstappen messed up the corner before. He slowed right down and let Norris go for a pass. Then he just drove Norris off the road.
He cheats he's done it before, he'll do it again unless properly sanctioned.
If Lando was Hamilton, Lando would be getting the blame for this. Max is a consistent dirty driver, always has been always will be. Was only a matter of time before he started to show his true colours again once he has someone threatening his ego.
Im fuming when smbd closes me like this in iRacing ruining my race cuz they slow ass can only agro defend by straight cuting… just take your fastest line bro and disturb opponents ok, but to fully throw away your line and slow down just to take me out of track is unfair
I'm still waiting for the track limits penalty for this one: he drove another driver off the track with multiple dinks to the left, failed to stay on the track himself, and then kept the position. The very definition of leaving the track for an advantage.
On the face of it Max letting go of the steering wheel instead of continuing to follow his line around the corner was a blatant foul. Should’ve been penalised
Max cleaned him out. There are no two ways about it. Verstappen wasn’t going to stop until there was contact. It’s up there on the list of all-time chump moves.
This comment section is just an echo chamber of hate towards Verstappen. The reality is that Norris refused to go a little bit more to the left: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1ds8i2m/verstappen_squeezing_norris_2024_v_sainz/
This was on Norris.
Vettel was hailed for pushing Hamilton wide in the braking zone: https://youtu.be/JNmfS9PSeYg?si=DYxWEB_lxYwsb-fe&t=272
But the narrative is 'Verstappen bad'.
The difference between these examples is that one ended with contact and two puncture. It’s fine for a driver to squeeze another, but it’s at their own risk because the outside driver is entitled to a car’s width. If the outside driver decides to use that space, then it’s firmly on the inside driver for causing a collision if they take the risk.
Thank you! Finally a bit of sense. [The overhead view that was kindly posted shows it really well.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1dst2rw/overhead_view_of_the_verstappennorris_incident/) Verstappen had obviously picked his line before Norris was anywhere near alongside him - he did the standard defensive tactic of covering the inside and setting the car up to go back towards the racing line to get a good exit. Norris was trying to run it around the outside and made an error in not using all the space available to him - space that you rightly point out other drivers have used. It was rear wheel to rear wheel contact, an area neither driver would have been able to see well. They just slightly misjudged the gap, this was basically a racing incident.
Well, neither of those other incidents ended with contact. This one did, and it was Max's fault. Lando had his car positioned and was entitled to stick to his line, max drove into him.
So you’re saying Verstappen should have sticked to his line and crash with Sainz? Enlighten me, how is that a better outcome?
Yet another one blinded by Verstappen hate.
I don't hate verstappen, I actually quite like him. I didn't say he should have crashed with sainz. This crash was maxs fault, lando was entitled to his space, max drove into him. It's pretty simple.
But that is not what happened. Lando has time to anticipate, but doesn't in frustration. He's just letting it happen to make a point. It's just very poor racecraft from him.
Where do you expect LN to go? His tyres were already in the white line. Once again, MV just expects people to just get out of his way. His antics should have been shot down back in 2021. Instead he had the rules broken in a way that unlawfully gave him the WDC. The FIA gave him his sense of entitlement, sooner or later he’s going to realise that he is not untouchable.
Why? He’s on the white line, and he rightfully expects MV to leave a cars width space between him and the white line. LN was not obliged to move over any further. That’s why this is 100% on MV.
It's poor racecraft from max to change his line under braking to drive into lando when he knew he was there. Could lando have taken evasive action? Yes. Does that change that the blame lies entirely with max? No.
It takes two to tango, especially if you come from that far behind. Nobody would have called out Verstappen if Norris moved slightly over to the left, just like nobody called out Sainz in the example above. He either misjudged the distance between himself and Max or simply was frustrated with the situation. He had more then enough room to get along Verstappen, he even went more to the left on most of his laps when Verstappen wasn't there.
Nothing wrong with Verstappen's defending in that particular situation. A few laps before he was over the line and should have gotten a black and white warning flag, which is procedure.
It's funny how for example Lance Stroll gets (rightfully) roasted for not anticipating his opponents, but because it is Max Verstappen defending, people go on the bash train of the defender. If Stroll would have been in the situation of Norris, everyone's opinion would change rather quickly. It was just a clumsy move of Norris not anticipating/willing to anticipate Verstappen opening the very tight corner.
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Norris didn't move left, he didn't have to, verstappen turned into him. Trying to place the blame on Lando here is delusional. There's no point arguing with you further, it's clear you're deluded on this incident.
Last time I checked you were not my mouthpiece to be able to point your 10,000 fingers at me but I'm sure that you've heard the saying about pointing fingers accusing me of paranoia and taking stuff too personally but what you call personal I call speaking with passion and knowledge from watching the sport for years and yes other drivers do pretty much the same but not with the regularity of Verstappen and that's whether he's trying to pass or being passed. We can keep this back and forth or just let it go because I was just saying the way that you were defending him as if it was accidental as a professional driver he knows better. I was a professional driver I drove 18 wheelers and owned my own truck and trailer and I had total control of my truck at all times even driving in the snow or ice in the mountains in Colorado California Arizona and New Mexico you name it because I've driven in every state in the US so when you drive professionally you should have control of your vehicle at all times don't make excuses for him because he's going to keep on doing it how many more crashes you need to see him in before you say enough. Just saying
I don't understand racing well enough to properly assign fault. However, I do know enough to understand that it's fun to see competitive racing again. I wonder who is to blame for Max's bad pit stop? This would have never happened if his lead didn't evaporate out of the pits.
Under FIA rules you are not allowed to change direction whilst under breaking, obv you can corner but cannot change your line. Max was already around the corner and just had to maintain line and power out but as he was scared Lando would get him on the drive out of the corner he changed lines to block him resulting in an impact. Lando could do nothing to get out of the way and had Max followed the rule the crash wouldn’t have happened
Thank you
I believe with 20 laps or whatever it was mclaren would have closed the gap to have a few laps to attack. I watched the onboard and I believe Max is at fault. He parks it in the middle to defend and you see him check left mirror approaching 50 meter marker and at the 50 meter marker he slightly turns the wheel to the left to close off the outside. The movement is very subtle. If You watch Lando’s onboard you see the outside gap start closing since max angled to the outside from the middle.
Max was in the lead, that doesn't make it ok to close the door like that?
You can’t move under braking to try and block another driver. That’s why they gave Max the penalty. It was also a second defensive maneuver. Not sure the exact regulation but if I recall correctly you can only make one defensive maneuver. Max had already made his move to the middle to block the inside. Then he opened the wheel to close the outside at 50 marker.
Not when a car is currently occupying the space.
Not under braking and not when the car is already in the space
Absolutely not. You have to leave space, and also, he defends outside the white lines. Absolutely terrible move (judging from my couch)
Especially when he ran off the track to block! He needs to be taken down a notch. A fine and 5 place penalty for the next race might draw his attention to reality. Think of the cost to McLaren. He is not a required winner of all F1.
Rules and penalties should not be applied based off how they effect one team more than the other. Max moved over during braking and caused a collision. 10s is the appropriate penalty for this offense.
Norris was in second and had a penalty coming because he couldn't keep it on track.
Is this a circle jerk sub? Close the door? He went 2 full car widths outside track limits
Finally someone that gets it
Nah
One rear wheel nut had to be retried a couple of times. Something like a 4 second stationary time ate up the gap from Norris, put them within a second apart..
I don't think anyone is to 'blame', shit happens.
That’s, as they say, racing. Being a dick and intentionally hitting someone isn’t.
The bad pit stop looked like a wheel gun fault on the rear left. Most likely not a cross thread or a broken gun because they get the nut off and back on but maybe the wheel gun operator didn’t hold the trigger long enough or it was on tighter than usual. Add to the fact Lando was a few seconds behind and came in right after made it so they couldn’t release max as soon as they finished. Made a 4 sec stop into a 6.5 second stop.
It’s so nice to see someone giving Max trouble instead of Max winning the race by 30 seconds.
I just hate that Max gets so aggressive whenever someone threatens his position. They either back out or he takes them, and often himself, out of the race.
>They either back out or he takes them, and often himself, out of the race. Reminds me of Schumacher and Senna..
I came to the realization the other day that I can’t say I dislike Max’s aggression then say Senna is my favorite driver. They have similar kill or be killed tendencies.
That wasn't great, nostalgia hits but during the time it was a bit awful
This is what frustrates me is people act like verstappen is the only one like this. This is a professional sport with so much on the line. Both drivers made mistakes, Max worse than Lando.
Who else is this bad? Does anyone else run cars off the road after theirs is damaged? Does anyone else drive on Lewis’ head at monza?
Schumacher v Hill 1994 for running a car off the road after damage
Schumacher was probably worse lol
And equally as maligned.
Um the entire alpine crew? Maybe kick? Um lance stroll is pretty sub par. I have seen a few other people then verstappen wreck so?
Don’t recall any of them deliberately crashing after they’d taken damage just to eliminate someone. Care to provide a counter example?
Um Lewis Hamilton leaving the apex to hit a passing verstappen? The one he went to the hospital for. I think your taking my points wrong, you think max did this deliberately but I think this isn’t on purpose this is someone trying hard as they can, not to lose and sadly resulted in awful racing. You want intentional wrecks go to a race sim or an amateur race. If max wanted to wreck him he could have easily done it without loosing spot. with a 10 second penalty he would have still been in first with 12 seconds from 3rd. Max was awful this race but he isn’t someone trying to take people out.
It's already been well established that Max moved under breaking on each overtake attempt. It's clear to see in a lot of the in-depth analysis (youtube e.t.c). The rule against this was implemented a few years back because Max did it pretty much at every opportunity. There were multiple occasions where Lando wasn't even given a car width on the outside, which again is a clear rule. There is a reason Max was slapped with a penalty. He broke multiple rules to stay ahead, as simple as that. I'm sure a lot of the hate is pure fanboyism, but the reason I personally dislike Verstappen is because he would likely still win most of the time, even if he drove clean. Anyone who says the best driver on the grid isn't Verstappen is kidding themselves, but he loses a lot of respect for pulling this shit the second he's under pressure.
Lewis Hamilton repeating the same move max pulled in the sprint the day before you mean? Wonder where Lewis learned that trick…
Got it, hate verstappen love Ferrari
Why do you hate someone fighting for his place? That’s racing
:( Freakin hate when racers race. I like watching cars go past other cars
Let’s be honestly there’s 2 reason why we have a lot of rules: - Safety - Unfair competition As long as both cars stand to lose by touching I don’t see much of an unfair advantage, and it wasn’t really a dangerous corner either. And we watch it primarily for the action on the track, not the results
Based
And he was complaining "Why is he dive-bombing left and right? That's not how you overtake" when does it a lot I think Lando was right in being that aggressive in the overtakes. It's the only way to make sure Max gives you the space and even then you run into trouble. It's like trying to race Magnussen
Sorry but you didn’t see Norris dive bombing on max a few times? That’s the way great drivers drive, aggressive and willing to go as far as possible to win. If you lack that mentality you will go nowhere in racing.
There’s nothing wrong with a lunge. It’s part of racing and something you learn and practice early in in karting. Otherwise you just sit there following. There’s a lot of timing involved and the further back you come from the harder that is. Normally If you fully commit and even arrive early there is no accident as the driver being passed can turn under you. If you arrive late after turn in that’s when accidents happen. Norris was appropriately penalised for track limits when he arrived early and too fast.
I don’t see anything wrong with it either, but the previous poster was talking about max being aggressive, well they both were and that’s hard racing
Max was a bit over the top as the passing driver commits to that braking zone and if the car in front moves in that zone - doesn’t have to be much - then you’re almost guaranteed contact as all the grip available to the passer is being used to brake.
The rule isn’t moving in the braking zone its moving under braking. If max moved but wasn’t braking he did nothing wrong. Lando pushed max off track a few times too That’s all hard racing. The collision was on Max and he got a penalty for it.
You’ll have accidents galore if the front driver does that as you can just slightly roll off the brake and use the now available grip to shift off line 30cm while the passer is threshold braking and whammo.
Can you please explain this a little bit better? Not sure what you're getting at here.
Yeah sure. You have a finite amount of grip for turning, accelerating, and decelerating. A lunge pass you will aim at a corridor and dedicate all your grip to deceleration. You need to arrive alongside the car you’re passing before they turn. The trust you put in each other is that they won’t start moving until the turn in point. If they move during the braking part of the process it will come as a massive shock as the corridor you are aiming for suddenly narrows and you don’t have the grip to move as all your grip is dedicated to braking. You could be sneaky in front and threshold brake roll off brake slightly and shift the car then get back on the brake again. So technically you haven’t moved under braking. That’s why it’s the braking zone and not really the moving under braking that’s the issue. Try and steer your road car while you threshold brake - you won’t be able to move - at best you’ll lock a tire.
Max keeps moving under braking. Sky have spelt it out with the relevant slo-mos and driver cams https://youtu.be/T_CcHcgIoTY?si=q-S2FobhvPiTy70R
The FIA has all telemetry information you can’t see if he was braking yet when he moved
Because he's not great at wheel to wheel combat.
Wow. That was more flagrant than I originally thought.
Maybe he's just warming up for the encore at Copse corner next weekend
I hadn’t felt this hype over an incident since George crashed out in Singapore last year
Its nice to see a new team fighting Max. Giving Feels like the 2021 season with LH
Annoying floating copyright in the middle of the frame of a video he doesn’t own the copyright to…
Yet again stewards inconsistent af. Clearly can see max letting the steering wheel open and hitting Lando off the track
From this angle you see Max squeezing too much leading to the contact plus he messes his line (prolly not as intentionally, already puncture maybe). Do not see a problem with the first instance, it's called racing, you try to overtake and I try to cover.
you mean when he didn’t have a right rear tire?
Honestly the stupidity on reddit is more than normal today. No one seems to get this
Clear as day.
He got a 10 second how much m9ore do u want
He had a much more significant move under braking prior to the incident. He also should have had to give up the position since he left the track and gained and advantage.
He got 10 seconds while Lando DNF’d
The penalty didn’t even cost him one place.
We had to keep our points lead he would have done us the same way
Public execution
Surely tar and feathering would be sufficient?
How about Blood Eagle? Fits nice.
Max has an oversteery car, he turns the wheel at a minimum. How can he stay on track after Nando punctures his tire? -Max fan
F1 finally not being mid
Max can drive. But he also dirty.
Get rid of your stupid watermark.
If Lando backs off and takes inside line, gets the lead with DRS as Max likely locks up and goes deep into the turn.
He tried to get to the inside many times in the laps prior. Max was defending well. Also if they're already braking there is no backing out since the car is already at its limit
Finally we have a proper F1 interesting race. Where anything can happen.
verstappen is Dutch for sore loser
Max is an absolute sore loser
What a prick Max was there. WTF
I’d probably beat them both
The old Max returns. This doesn't even show the illegal double moves he did prior to running into Norris. The 10 second penalty is total BS. He should have been black flagged.
Maxhole.
Max is the whiniest little bitch in F1. But if he’s under threat throws the whole car in.
Max’s entire career built on this arcade game driving bs. Yet again, pushes the competitor off the road and deliberately blocks their return effort. Should have been his car that was ruined as a result instead of Norris. I can’t wait until he either learns actual race craft or retires.
It was his MO until Newey built Red Bull a rocket and let Max cruise uninterrupted at the front for the last two years. Now there is - finally! - some real competition, we see the return of Max The Amazing Crashstappen and I am here for it. Does the ten second penalty indicate that the FIA have learned something In the interim and will apply the rules regardless of how much income Verstappen generates for the sport? Time will tell. However it pans out, it was nice to see some action at the front after two years of parades. Rivalry? Bring it on. That is what makes any sport more interesting.
Verstappen is a dick. He's had the superior car for at least 3 years, and now the others have caught up with him, particularly Lando, he behaving like a spoilt child. He needs receive suitable sanctions for his behaviour.
Intense....
Great to see close racing in F1 and not the same winner every race (Max, Lewis, Sebastian, Michael etc.). Max in this scenario moved left under breaking, cutting Norris off the road. I'm hoping the next race has close racing but doesn't end so badly.
Ahh the good old max. Can’t beat the competition so pushes them off track. He’s been lucky his cars so fast the last few seasons. This is just a repeat of the dirty moves he did to Hamilton back in 2021.
Max is such a hardcore bully when he races i dont know enough to know when it becomes dirty but man its a different type of race when youre racing for 1st place.
More Max's fault than Lando but, Lando's fault too.
I can't believe your name ripped off Max's tire/tyre.
I can't wait to take my car to the track! 🚗💨 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB-sMsQroLg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB-sMsQroLg)
this is me - five minutes late trying to get to work. just need to pass the guy in front of me to get there on time.
I mean. It’s close but this is a max issue to me pretty clearly, he will not move for anyone and unless you crash into him you won’t overtake. Same with Lewis in 21.. he’s just too stubborn. Like a young Lewis tbh lol
Max is a petulant man-child.
I can’t stand Verstappen he’s such a child. When we grow up. His fame is going to his head so much that he has become a bully.
I respect hard racing. But Max moving in the braking zone has been an issue since he got into F1. The other drivers should stop being afraid to pass him, its like they fear him when it comes to hard racing battles
Every driver does this. I’ve witnessed many races where drivers complain about another driver moving in the braking zone. There’s an art to riding the line enough to avoid a penalty. This particular instance, I think Max just thought Lando would be slightly father to the left but misjudged it.
That may be so. But he has a reputation for not leaving space for another driver (2021 season...) Guess thats why he is a world champion. More hard racing for the rest of the season please
Anyone defending that move is a knucklehead I was going to say something worse but I'm going to police myself you can clearly see that verstappen swerved multiple times and intentionally ran Norris off the track. That was after he had already swung wide to cut him off and he ran off the track himself so if that's not overly aggressive then they may as well change the sport to bumper cars. Those same crybabies were in tears when him and Lewis got into it and verstappen was the aggressive driver and expected Lewis to back out and let him pass. Lewis never swerved like verstappen did in that video but they're hypocrites and can't see the truth right in front of their faces. Those same people were angry and crying saying that Lewis's car was way faster than the rest but when verstappen's car was faster mums the word. We see you and know exactly the type of people you are.
Drivers are allowed to squeeze each other off track on corner exit. On corner entry, the outside driver is entitled to a car’s width. So the incident is definitely on Verstappen. Though many are making this out to be more than it is. I don’t think Verstappen did anything egregious here. I’ve seen examples of this corner approach from other defenses and Verstappen’s maneuver was pretty typical. I think he just expected Norris to use more of the kerb on the approach, but misjudged it and worst case scenario happened.
So you're telling me that if you were Norris you would finish the race and go high five verstappen and tell him nice move and not be angry that he ran you wide then swerved at least two times to push you off the track. To know how egregious those moves were just listen to the spectators who saw it firsthand unfolding right in front of them look at the video 100 times until you get the picture because obviously your judgment is blurred by your bias.
I’m just expressing how I see it. Not everyone is so concerned with defending one driver over another. No need to be so paranoid over bias. Take the argument as is rather than attempting to paint me as unreasonable for a simple disagreement. If I was as biased as you accuse, I’d probably be seeing this as much more black and white, and making it personal, as you seem to be. I think it was a mistake on Verstappen’s part and I can see how it was made. It wasn’t as belligerent as you frame it. As I said before, other drivers defended similarly in that corner but Verstappen likely misjudged Norris’ position. I think Norris was also pretty aggressive in his attempts to overtake Verstappen, but I understand why he was so aggressive. I’ve watched the incident from multiple angles. I’ve also listened to a fair amount of analysis on the matter and it seems to agree with that description. Whether one driver likes it or not isn’t really indicative of what reflects reality.
Obviously you don't watch f1 or you would know that what we're all seeing is Verstappen's signature move because he's done it with so many other drivers and is why him and Lewis Hamilton got into a few wrecks and tried to blame Hamilton at the time everyone was in denial but hopefully they will figure it out. Before you start giving out your free opinions maybe you should watch other races with Verstappen and see how many other times he's done the same shyt like in that video so it's not an accident or mistake but when he wants to pass they had better get out of his way or he would do what he did to Lewis and crash both of them out of the race hence the name Crashtappen and as far as my paranoia I guess that you're a doctor and quick to jump to conclusions and if anyone is caught up in their feelings mister pot calling the kettle black. Enjoy your day.
Again, you’re taking this way too personally. I don’t have to be a doctor to see how emotionally invested you are with this I’ll admit I’m a bit of a new fan. Started watching in 2020 but I’ve gone back to watch quite a bit of the past two decades of formula 1. I’m well aware of Verstappen’s *reputation* as a crash instigator. I emphasize “reputation” because many drivers are painted a certain way by viewers without it really being justified. He certainly is aggressive and definitely forces other drivers to back out but I don’t think he does anything that other drivers on the grid have not or are not willing to do aswell. At best the reputation appeals to Verstappen in his first couple of seasons. Hamilton had a bit of reputation as a crash artist in the first half of his career aswell but his time with Merc has caused that to dissipate. Similarly Vettel has had some high profile incidents where he pushed over the line. But history has been kind to them because it was years ago. I’ll reiterate the point, the way Verstappen defended the corner is no way unique to him. We have clips of other drivers doing the exact same thing in the exact same corner. If anything, my newness to the sport gives weight to that argument. Despite being a fan for only four years, I’ve seen numerous instances just like this. That’s why I don’t think Verstappen did anything egregious. It was a simple misjudgment with the worst possible outcome. This is not a unique sentiment. You can find this conclusion from multiple analysis sources.
Verstappen the cheat, nothing new.
You can see Verstappen messed up the corner before. He slowed right down and let Norris go for a pass. Then he just drove Norris off the road. He cheats he's done it before, he'll do it again unless properly sanctioned.
If Lando was Hamilton, Lando would be getting the blame for this. Max is a consistent dirty driver, always has been always will be. Was only a matter of time before he started to show his true colours again once he has someone threatening his ego.
Im fuming when smbd closes me like this in iRacing ruining my race cuz they slow ass can only agro defend by straight cuting… just take your fastest line bro and disturb opponents ok, but to fully throw away your line and slow down just to take me out of track is unfair
Exciting duel between the two of them
I'm still waiting for the track limits penalty for this one: he drove another driver off the track with multiple dinks to the left, failed to stay on the track himself, and then kept the position. The very definition of leaving the track for an advantage.
It was a great race, I was there and it’s good to see drivers go to the limit.
yawn this is boring compared to Motogp.
On the face of it Max letting go of the steering wheel instead of continuing to follow his line around the corner was a blatant foul. Should’ve been penalised
His tire was punctured. You can see the car sliding after the initial contact.
F1 fans have become a legion of sissies. This is exactly what happened at this turn here.
Max cleaned him out. There are no two ways about it. Verstappen wasn’t going to stop until there was contact. It’s up there on the list of all-time chump moves.
This comment section is just an echo chamber of hate towards Verstappen. The reality is that Norris refused to go a little bit more to the left: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1ds8i2m/verstappen_squeezing_norris_2024_v_sainz/ This was on Norris. Vettel was hailed for pushing Hamilton wide in the braking zone: https://youtu.be/JNmfS9PSeYg?si=DYxWEB_lxYwsb-fe&t=272 But the narrative is 'Verstappen bad'.
LN was already at the white line, MV has no right push him any further. This was 100% on MV.
The difference between these examples is that one ended with contact and two puncture. It’s fine for a driver to squeeze another, but it’s at their own risk because the outside driver is entitled to a car’s width. If the outside driver decides to use that space, then it’s firmly on the inside driver for causing a collision if they take the risk.
Thank you! Finally a bit of sense. [The overhead view that was kindly posted shows it really well.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1dst2rw/overhead_view_of_the_verstappennorris_incident/) Verstappen had obviously picked his line before Norris was anywhere near alongside him - he did the standard defensive tactic of covering the inside and setting the car up to go back towards the racing line to get a good exit. Norris was trying to run it around the outside and made an error in not using all the space available to him - space that you rightly point out other drivers have used. It was rear wheel to rear wheel contact, an area neither driver would have been able to see well. They just slightly misjudged the gap, this was basically a racing incident.
Well, neither of those other incidents ended with contact. This one did, and it was Max's fault. Lando had his car positioned and was entitled to stick to his line, max drove into him.
So you’re saying Verstappen should have sticked to his line and crash with Sainz? Enlighten me, how is that a better outcome? Yet another one blinded by Verstappen hate.
I don't hate verstappen, I actually quite like him. I didn't say he should have crashed with sainz. This crash was maxs fault, lando was entitled to his space, max drove into him. It's pretty simple.
But that is not what happened. Lando has time to anticipate, but doesn't in frustration. He's just letting it happen to make a point. It's just very poor racecraft from him.
LN was entitled to stay where he was, he was at the white line.
lol, I can also make up my own 'rules'. Just blind hatred, once again.
Where do you expect LN to go? His tyres were already in the white line. Once again, MV just expects people to just get out of his way. His antics should have been shot down back in 2021. Instead he had the rules broken in a way that unlawfully gave him the WDC. The FIA gave him his sense of entitlement, sooner or later he’s going to realise that he is not untouchable.
> Where do you expect LN to go? Slightly to the left. /micdrop.
Why? He’s on the white line, and he rightfully expects MV to leave a cars width space between him and the white line. LN was not obliged to move over any further. That’s why this is 100% on MV.
Or back out like everyone else
It's poor racecraft from max to change his line under braking to drive into lando when he knew he was there. Could lando have taken evasive action? Yes. Does that change that the blame lies entirely with max? No.
It takes two to tango, especially if you come from that far behind. Nobody would have called out Verstappen if Norris moved slightly over to the left, just like nobody called out Sainz in the example above. He either misjudged the distance between himself and Max or simply was frustrated with the situation. He had more then enough room to get along Verstappen, he even went more to the left on most of his laps when Verstappen wasn't there. Nothing wrong with Verstappen's defending in that particular situation. A few laps before he was over the line and should have gotten a black and white warning flag, which is procedure. It's funny how for example Lance Stroll gets (rightfully) roasted for not anticipating his opponents, but because it is Max Verstappen defending, people go on the bash train of the defender. If Stroll would have been in the situation of Norris, everyone's opinion would change rather quickly. It was just a clumsy move of Norris not anticipating/willing to anticipate Verstappen opening the very tight corner.
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Norris didn't move left, he didn't have to, verstappen turned into him. Trying to place the blame on Lando here is delusional. There's no point arguing with you further, it's clear you're deluded on this incident.
Something something mirror.
This has to be the worst and most blatant form of bad driving we’ve seen in years (apart of Stroll of course)
Dangerous and moronic, spoilt little brat max Crashtappen
I had my wife watch this. The first thing she said was, “Why did Max hit him?”
Your wife is. hired. Have her report to the stewards office at Silverstone. No one will mess with a lady steward decision.
F1 Sucks
ok that was illegal driving, but that mclaren must be made of paper if that contact DNF'd it.
Schumacher-esque. Very much so. A shame, as that was also unattractive and unsporting in its day.
Max is a sore loser, he had lost that race but he was protected by the bent stewards..again!
EXACTLY
This is the official first RACE of this season.
Fun duel
Only one thing Verstappen is the formula 1 god
Last time I checked you were not my mouthpiece to be able to point your 10,000 fingers at me but I'm sure that you've heard the saying about pointing fingers accusing me of paranoia and taking stuff too personally but what you call personal I call speaking with passion and knowledge from watching the sport for years and yes other drivers do pretty much the same but not with the regularity of Verstappen and that's whether he's trying to pass or being passed. We can keep this back and forth or just let it go because I was just saying the way that you were defending him as if it was accidental as a professional driver he knows better. I was a professional driver I drove 18 wheelers and owned my own truck and trailer and I had total control of my truck at all times even driving in the snow or ice in the mountains in Colorado California Arizona and New Mexico you name it because I've driven in every state in the US so when you drive professionally you should have control of your vehicle at all times don't make excuses for him because he's going to keep on doing it how many more crashes you need to see him in before you say enough. Just saying