Apollo is a funny claim bc my man has a LOT of SA myths.
Like the entire play of **Ion** by Euripides is about how a mortal woman and her demigod son’s lives are completely ruined and turned upside down because she was raped and abused by Apollo when she was to be wed. And so she had to leave her son on a mountain so she won’t be known to have coupled with anyone else. Apollo, who couldn’t be assed to do it himself, tasks Hermes with retrieving the baby and having him be raised as a priest to himself (the ego is crazy).
The mother and son one day reunite and the son remarks on how, even tho the gods CAN rape people and fuck w mortal lives, they shouldn’t.
You’re only gonna find gods who haven’t had SA myths if they lack the popularity to have enough stories.
All of the male Olympians have myths about SAing somebody.
> Pausanias, Description of Greece 7. 22. 8 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.) :
"Ares mated with Triteia the daughter of [the Sea-God] Triton, this maiden was priestess to Athena, and that Melanippos, the son of Ares and Triteia, founded the city [Triteia, Akhaia] when he grew up, naming it after his mother . . . The people here are accustomed to sacrifice both to Ares and to Triteia."
Ehhh this is explicitly about Ares, saying that he had a kid with a sworn maiden, priestess of Athena. Not many ways that could have ended w/o coercion or with consent.
I do agree that Ares was better on this stuff (it was the Greeks’ way of emasculating Ares to belittle the Spartans— not making him seem “strong enough” to take mortals as any other god wound) but for us that just makes him generally a cool guy and a good dad
Were priestess of Athena during the Bronze Age virgin for life? I think only servants of the roman god Vesta were eternal virgins. If servants of Athena swore for eternal virginity, could you provide the source?
Vestal Virgins **were not eternal virgins**. They were only sworn to virginity for 30 years
I did find that Athena’s high priestess *had* to be a married woman, which is interesting. Mythologically I know a lot of her priestesses were described as virgins/maidens. I suppose it could vary, I apologize then
The only priestess of her that was a virgin was Cassandra (that i know) but she was trojan, not "greek", so she followed another culture.
Or there could be virgin priestess, but they did not need to be. If they want be was fine, but if not it was fine too. Some cities needed they to be married like you said.
And no, Medusa was not her priestess. Even if we follows Ovid here, she is never called a priestess by him. Is only said that Neptune took her when she was in Minerva temple. She could easily be just a passerby or or someone praying there. She is neither called virgin by him or nothing of the sort.
Thanks about the Vesta correction.
?? “The main 12” is all Olympians
They are the 12 Olympians
“Olympian” doesn’t just mean “all gods that live on Olympus” because that would describe all gods except the chthonics.
Chthonic means “of the earth.” It describes things that live in the underworld or on Gaia/earth.
Most protogenoi live with Nyx in the underworld/ with Tartarus.
All titans that sided against Zeus live in Tartarus.
Eos, Selene, and Helios all live on Olympus. They are not Olympian gods.
1. Cthonic specifically refers to gods with relation to the underworld such as Hermes (a psychopomp), Poseidon (protohades), gods of war, and more. It is a modern invention and not an antiquated concept.
2. Tartarus is not one place, but the name given to multiple locations and entities in various antique literatures. The protogenoi and titanes do not live in Tartarus in every version.
3. The titanes that sided against Zeus were considered to be freed. Cronus was awarded king of Elysium.
3. Selene and Helios typically live in their respective palaces upon their domains, with Helios residing in the East. No titanes live on Olympus.
To further trash your claim from earlier, nearly every minor god resides outside Olympus. Most deified mortals, unnamed gods that animated various biomes and concepts, and gods that began as personifications did not live on Olympus.
1. Chthon literally means earth. It was used as an alternate name for Gaia very often. Erichthonius is named after being born from the earth (Gaia).
2. Sure okay. Most still lived in the underworld. Tartarus was usually just as far below Hades as Hades was below Earth. Then beneath that you have Chaos, which encompassed basically everything as a sort of personification of nothingness.
3. ????? “Was considered” girl huh? What niche ass source are you reading and extrapolating to all of greek mythology?
4. I admit to mixing up the sun palace thing, that’s my bad
5. Yes those gods which live upon the earth or embody aspects of the earth. AKA chthonics.
My main point was just that gods like Ganymede, Psyche, and Eros are not Olympians.
Chthonic is a modernized category that refers specifically to gods of death as mentioned. It has never referred to simply earthly gods. Gods with no direct relation to death are not typically chthonic, even if they reside on the Earth. Oceanic and Ouranic gods typically do not reside on the Earth, in Olympus, or in the underworld. For example, Aeolus lives in Aeolia. Daimones typically don't reside anywhere. According to Pindar and Aeschylus, our main poets for titanic myths, the titanes were freed by Zeus after the war, but none of them are ever said to live on Olympus and only a couple are Chthonic. This means only a minority of gods, ~60, are ever said to reside upon Olympus.
https://www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/olympian-gods.html
Greek mythology/early society is basically based on “Authority”
You can’t punch upwards or sideways, but anyone lower than you and you can do whatever you want to them.
Eos and Ares had a relationship which pissed Aphrodite off, so she cursed Eos with unsatiable lust. With her heightened sexual desires, Eos had many partners and unfortunately, some of them she kidnapped and probably weren't willing partners...
That would erase a couple of sexual assaults attempted by the male Gods too, because in some of those myths they were under the influence of either Eros or Aphrodite's control (both Apollo and Dionysus committed some sexual assaults after Eros shot them with his arrows for example).
Nop, because Aphrodite is responsible for ALL ACTS of love or lust. Like, you literaly cannot fall in love (or have lust) without the will of Aphrodite.
She did not "allowed" you to feel love. She DECIDED who you should fall in love with.
Her powers are no different from the concept of a love potion. In the modern day the ideia of a love potion is bizarre, because it take always the free will, even if it is not gruesome. The same thing here.
So you either blames Aphrodite for everything, or blames the offender. Eos commited the deeds, she is the offender. If you excuse Eos, them you should excuse Zeus, because he was also under Aphrodite power in every sexual assault he commited (according to the Homeric Hymm to Aphrodite).
A love potion in most fiction forces people to act on it, the way cupid or Aphrodite are supposed to make you fall in love doesnt force you to act on it. Its suppsed to be like normal love, where you love them but you can spend years not together and pining for them or move on and fall for someone else.
That is still different than CURSING someone to have uncontrollable lust.
Zues and the other gods didnt just do stuff cos she made them, they also did stuff they didnt have to act on and fucked with mortals out of boredom.
Read the Hymm to Aphrodite. Is made clear there that Aphrodite is responsible for every act of love and lust.
You are not getting my point. Look at this way. Lets say person 1 fall in love with person 2, and this person 2 marries with person 1. Aphrodite has blessed them with love and marriage.
Lets says now that person 1 have lust for person 2, and commits sexual assault against person 2. Aphrodite has cursed one of them. You see my point?
But at the same time, no one was excused for their acts, still Aphrodite was behind every act of love or lust. Just like there is no storm without the will of Zeus, and there is no agriculture without the will of Demeter, there is no love or lust without the will of Aphrodite.
Almost every God has at least one SA myth. To shorten, here are the most notable myths I could find.
Hermes and Apemosyne, “Althaimenes grandson of Minos] left Krete with his sister Apemosyne and went to a certain place on Rhodes . . . Not long after that he became the murderer of his sister. For Hermes developed a passion for Apemosyne; proving unable to catch her as she ran from him (she was swifter of foot than Hermes!), he strewed some newly stripped hides along the road, on which she slipped as she was returning from the spring. He then raped her. When she disclosed to her brother what had happened, Althaimenes took her story about the god to be an excuse, and killed her with a kick of his foot."
https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/HermesLoves.html#Apemosyne
Dionysus and Aura
“The husband brought no gift; on the ground that hapless girl heavy with wine, unmoving, was wedded to Dionysos; Hypnos (Sleep) embraced the body of Aura with overshadowing winds, and he was marshal of the wedding for Bakkhos, for he also had experience of love, he is yokefellow of Selene (the Moon), he is companion of the Erotes (Loves) in nightly caresses. So the wedding was like a dream; for the capering dances, the hill skipt and leapt of itself, the Hamadryas half-visible shook her agemate fir--only maiden Ekho did not join in the mountain dance, but shamefast hid herself unapproachable under the foundations of the rock, that she might not behold the wedding of womanmad Dionysos.”
https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/DionysosLoves.html#Aura
And if Aura is discounted due to him being under Eros’ influence, to my knowledge Dionysus was not under his influence when he raped Nicaea.
“He [Dionysos] remembered the bed of the Astakid Nymphe [Nikaia, of Lake Astakos] long before, how he had wooed the lovely Nymphe with a cunning potion and made sleep his guide to intoxicated bridals."
https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/DionysosLoves.html#Nikaia
Apollo and Dryope, according to Antonioni’s Liberalis’ account.
“On one occasion, Dryope was seen by Apollo. In order to win her favours the god turned himself into a tortoise, of which the girls made a pet. The nymphs played with the animal and when Dryope had the tortoise on her lap, Apollo turned into a snake. The nymphs then got scared and abandoned her, and Apollo raped her.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryope_(daughter_of_Dryops)#:~:text=The%20nymphs%20played%20with%20the,married%20Andraemon%2C%20son%20of%20Oxylus.
Ares also *technically* has a rape myth, if you’re counting his Roman equivalent Mars, who raped Rhea Silvia (I include this as I’ve seen people bring it up on discussions as to whether he ever actually raped anyone).
There are more myths, but if I compiled a list of every SA myth, the comment would be too long for Reddit.
Also with Ares, there are myths where the consent is *dubious* at best,
"Phylonome, the daughter of Nyktimos and Arkadia, was wont to hunt with Artemis; but Ares, in the guise of a shepherd, got her with child.”
By modern standards, having sex with her in disguise is a form of rape via deception.
https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/AresLoves.html#Phylonome
I agree with rape by deception being something that the Greek gods did, even if it probably wasn't considered a crime then (or even until recently).
However, I do wonder if all sex in a different form is rape.
For example, Zeus taking the form of Alcmene's husband is definitely rape.
So, if Ares took on the form of Phylonome's shepherd boyfriend, definitely rape.
If Phylonome vowed never to have sex with Ares and he took on the form to trick her, again, definitely rape.
But if he just took on the form of a random shepherd boy and seduced Phylonome is that rape?
None of that changes you point that this one has dubious consent, it's just a point I wonder about.
That’s why I say it’s dubious. None of the texts I can find mentioning Phylonome state whether she was an enthusiastic participant, or if Ares just raped her in the form of a shepherd,
I mean, it's rare any text says if the female was an enthusiastic participant.
And with cultural lenses and having to go through translators it's even harder.
I mean, most of the marriages we see in the myths are probably forced marriages and include a lot of rape.
There’s also Triteia, sea nymph and maiden/virgin priestess to Athena. It doesn’t explicitly say he forced himself on her but— as a priestess of Athena, she had sworn an oath of virginity. So like, he must have.
Artemis was angry with Aura once because Aura implied that Artemis was impure. Artemis's response? Ask Nemesis to "punish" Aura, and when Nemesis suggested making Dionysus rape her, Artemis was fully on board.
specifically relating to SA, artemis turned callisto into a bear because she got raped and impregnated by zeus and in (i think ovid's) roman mythology medusa was raped by poseidon in athena's temple and athena turned her into a gorgon but thats just a difference in telling as most accept medusa was born a gorgon.
Isn't Medusa being SAed a translator's opinion rather than what Ovid might have wanted? Since Ovid doesn't really clear whether it was rape or some consenting act?
I imagine it was probably some creative liberty from a translator, however it makes sense within mythology given that Poseidon wasnt a guy big on consent so i can also see it being something he did write in himself.
Yes but that goes with Athena aswell, generally she's known to defend rape victims, and even Ovid is explicit about it, since in his story of Coroneis he shows Athena defending her from Poseidon so then it becomes hard to say she won't defend Medusa is she was being forced.
Which is understandable why Ovid cannot say if Medusa was consenting or not because he wasn't really focusing on her, he was writing the story of Perseus from his own knowing and lens, and during Perseus' story Medusa was mentioned in like a couple of lines.
Unlike Ovid giving his version of Arachne where it's like many paragraphs.
i assumed it was more telling of poseidon's character then athena's. from athena's perspective they had sex in her temple, and from medusa's she was raped.
If my memory isn't wrong Artemis in Ovid Metamorphosis turns an unsuspecting hunter into a deer, to be mauled by his dogs, just for stumbling upon her on bath time.
Don't think I would consider Medusa a part of that since thod-thod thinks Medusa counts as such, while I don't think Ovid really wanted it to be SA or if he was clear whether it's SA or not. Also I don't think even if Minerva had punished a SAed victim that means she's okay with SA.
Regardless, what's up with Aethra and Athena? would that be an SA? Neither that one is explicit as far as I can understand.
That depends what version of the story you go with. The original greek myth originally didn't contain that, but the roman poet Ovid added in that part of the story later.
If it’s in popular culture around the myth, then I count it as part of the myth. The stories developed over millennia, there’s no point looking for the “purest” version of them
It's not even in myth, if some translator wants to make it some SA thing that's not "popular culture around the myth" We don't know if Medusa was SAed in Ovid's as he doesn't make it explicit, we are left to wonder about it, while Ovid in his other works portrays Athena as a defender of victims not blamer.
Only Daphne. Every act of love and lust is under the command of Eros and Aphrodite. You cannot have love or lust if Aphrodite dont want (and Eros too sometimes).
He specifically did this to punish Apollo because he knew Apollo didn't want it. In fact, he didn't merely inspire lust in Apollo, he compelled Apollo to pursue Daphne. Apollo describes himself as unfree, and he very briefly understands who compels him to act the way he does.
> In shooting have I stedfast hand, but surer hand had hee
> That made this wound within my heart that heretofore was free.
*From Golding's Translation of the Metamorphoses*
(Edited for source)
Every act of love and lust comes from Aphrodite and Eros. Eros could made Apollo fall in love with Daphne, and them he could made Daphne fall in love with Apollo. What you think of this situation?
Every person and god CANNOT fall in love or have lust for someone without Aphrodite/Eros will. Every person Apollo loved (and they loved back) was because of Eros and Aphrodite too, you see my point? The good and bad of love and lust, all comes from these two, this still never excused the participants (in this case, Apollo).
I think it's a little more complicated than that. There are differences in the purposes of story between times when people feel attraction and Eros isn't a character with a full will and personality and times when Eros **is** granted a full will and personality in the story. In this story, he is specifically said to do this out of malice because he knew Apollo would hate it.
The framing of the story is extremely different than most stories involving characters experiencing lust or love, so I think the story needs to be interpreted differently.
The Greeks did not think of sexual assault as we do, neither did they think of consent or female personhood in modern terms. This had widespread ramifications in their myths.
Gods fathered children on mortals, and people claimed descent from such children as a great honor. Gods could not marry mortals, so such conceptions were out-of-wedlock, and woman had no right to consent to out-of-wedlock intercourse in the first place.
This means every single major deity from whom people would like to claim association has some myth that could feasibly be construed as sexual assault. This includes Ares, who raped Rhea Silvia as Mars and fathered the entire nation of Rome.
As far as I’m aware, Ares never sexually assaulted anyone, and, in fact, *hated* rapists. He unleashed un-holy Hell on a guy that raped one of his daughters.
Every goddess with exception of Calypso, Eos and Selene.
Of course some goddess were involved with this subjetc, but were not the offender itself. Only Calypso, Eos and Selene forced men, but the other goddess never forced.
It may be difficult to observe and understand, rather than project modern western sensibilities on ancient stories and internalize percieved injury, but we should try nonetheless.
I wanted to say Hades as the only one, but then I remembered that there are some versions where he SAs Persephone along with force feeding her pomegranate. I know less than others here, so there might be one god who doesn't have any myths where he has forced himself onto an unwilling mortal, or goddess/god. But I wouldn't count on it.
In the best of readings, absolutely any wrongdoing is put on Zeus.
Hades sometimes feeds/tricks her regarding the seeds, but even that is more a mythological explanation besides marriage for her staying in the underworld.
Also apparently the Greeks used the same poses/stuff for “rape” and “kidnap” so several stories become however you want to read it.
At best, Hades-Persephone is just an arranged marriage.
I'm not sure, I probably just heard it somewhere and thought of it as true. I don't actively read into myths a lot as I probably should. My bad for accidentally spreading misinfo. But as I said others in the comments know far more than I do. I just read things periodically and forget.
I mean not that it matters, any of the new retellings in the modern versions of him. He is basically everyone’s favorite morally gray Booktok boyfriend. They kinda gloss over the actual myth. The author of Touch of Darkness said, those myths were just fanfics of the time and you can tell by her writings.
Yes, but you can still like Greek mythology for its other themes and messages without *liking* rape. Greek myths are a product of their time, and many events are regarded completely differently in modern times than they were thousands of years ago. It's okay to accept that and to be unhappy with *parts* of the stories.
Rapists are the only people who like rape. Everybody else hates it. I truly hope you just misworded your sentence because it gives off horrible vibes.
Apollo is a funny claim bc my man has a LOT of SA myths. Like the entire play of **Ion** by Euripides is about how a mortal woman and her demigod son’s lives are completely ruined and turned upside down because she was raped and abused by Apollo when she was to be wed. And so she had to leave her son on a mountain so she won’t be known to have coupled with anyone else. Apollo, who couldn’t be assed to do it himself, tasks Hermes with retrieving the baby and having him be raised as a priest to himself (the ego is crazy). The mother and son one day reunite and the son remarks on how, even tho the gods CAN rape people and fuck w mortal lives, they shouldn’t. You’re only gonna find gods who haven’t had SA myths if they lack the popularity to have enough stories. All of the male Olympians have myths about SAing somebody.
Except Ares unless you think he's the same as Mars who did SA someone
> Pausanias, Description of Greece 7. 22. 8 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.) : "Ares mated with Triteia the daughter of [the Sea-God] Triton, this maiden was priestess to Athena, and that Melanippos, the son of Ares and Triteia, founded the city [Triteia, Akhaia] when he grew up, naming it after his mother . . . The people here are accustomed to sacrifice both to Ares and to Triteia." Ehhh this is explicitly about Ares, saying that he had a kid with a sworn maiden, priestess of Athena. Not many ways that could have ended w/o coercion or with consent. I do agree that Ares was better on this stuff (it was the Greeks’ way of emasculating Ares to belittle the Spartans— not making him seem “strong enough” to take mortals as any other god wound) but for us that just makes him generally a cool guy and a good dad
Were priestess of Athena during the Bronze Age virgin for life? I think only servants of the roman god Vesta were eternal virgins. If servants of Athena swore for eternal virginity, could you provide the source?
Vestal Virgins **were not eternal virgins**. They were only sworn to virginity for 30 years I did find that Athena’s high priestess *had* to be a married woman, which is interesting. Mythologically I know a lot of her priestesses were described as virgins/maidens. I suppose it could vary, I apologize then
The only priestess of her that was a virgin was Cassandra (that i know) but she was trojan, not "greek", so she followed another culture. Or there could be virgin priestess, but they did not need to be. If they want be was fine, but if not it was fine too. Some cities needed they to be married like you said. And no, Medusa was not her priestess. Even if we follows Ovid here, she is never called a priestess by him. Is only said that Neptune took her when she was in Minerva temple. She could easily be just a passerby or or someone praying there. She is neither called virgin by him or nothing of the sort. Thanks about the Vesta correction.
Correction: The male olympians within the main 12 have SA stories, but not all of the male olympians outside the main 12 like asklepios.
?? “The main 12” is all Olympians They are the 12 Olympians “Olympian” doesn’t just mean “all gods that live on Olympus” because that would describe all gods except the chthonics.
Titans, most protogenoi, and most daimones do not live on Olympus. Only Olympians do. Secondly, most main Olympians are cthonic.
Chthonic means “of the earth.” It describes things that live in the underworld or on Gaia/earth. Most protogenoi live with Nyx in the underworld/ with Tartarus. All titans that sided against Zeus live in Tartarus. Eos, Selene, and Helios all live on Olympus. They are not Olympian gods.
1. Cthonic specifically refers to gods with relation to the underworld such as Hermes (a psychopomp), Poseidon (protohades), gods of war, and more. It is a modern invention and not an antiquated concept. 2. Tartarus is not one place, but the name given to multiple locations and entities in various antique literatures. The protogenoi and titanes do not live in Tartarus in every version. 3. The titanes that sided against Zeus were considered to be freed. Cronus was awarded king of Elysium. 3. Selene and Helios typically live in their respective palaces upon their domains, with Helios residing in the East. No titanes live on Olympus. To further trash your claim from earlier, nearly every minor god resides outside Olympus. Most deified mortals, unnamed gods that animated various biomes and concepts, and gods that began as personifications did not live on Olympus.
1. Chthon literally means earth. It was used as an alternate name for Gaia very often. Erichthonius is named after being born from the earth (Gaia). 2. Sure okay. Most still lived in the underworld. Tartarus was usually just as far below Hades as Hades was below Earth. Then beneath that you have Chaos, which encompassed basically everything as a sort of personification of nothingness. 3. ????? “Was considered” girl huh? What niche ass source are you reading and extrapolating to all of greek mythology? 4. I admit to mixing up the sun palace thing, that’s my bad 5. Yes those gods which live upon the earth or embody aspects of the earth. AKA chthonics. My main point was just that gods like Ganymede, Psyche, and Eros are not Olympians.
Chthonic is a modernized category that refers specifically to gods of death as mentioned. It has never referred to simply earthly gods. Gods with no direct relation to death are not typically chthonic, even if they reside on the Earth. Oceanic and Ouranic gods typically do not reside on the Earth, in Olympus, or in the underworld. For example, Aeolus lives in Aeolia. Daimones typically don't reside anywhere. According to Pindar and Aeschylus, our main poets for titanic myths, the titanes were freed by Zeus after the war, but none of them are ever said to live on Olympus and only a couple are Chthonic. This means only a minority of gods, ~60, are ever said to reside upon Olympus. https://www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/olympian-gods.html
Aeolia is in the ocean. It’s just an island in the water lol, though I guess we can differentiate between Thalassa and Gaia
Aeolia is a flying island, and again, the fucking ocean isn't chthonic. 😭
Hestia and Prometheus
there’s a myth where a god tried to sa hestia but he got punished for it
which is shocking considering the rest of the gods track records
i guess everyone just loves hestia
cause Hestia is bestia
Hestia called dibs on donkeys after that
As they should! My lady held four (4) of her siblings up out of Kronos's stomach acid, leaving her to take on all that pain herself
Greek mythology/early society is basically based on “Authority” You can’t punch upwards or sideways, but anyone lower than you and you can do whatever you want to them.
Also she's one of the Virgin Goddesses so that makes her even more Off Limits.
Hestia the unproblematic queen
Goddesses aren’t immune from this, either. Selene put Endymion into a deep, unending slumber so she could have sex with him.
Also Aphrodite and Eos
Aphrodite is a no-brainer, but What Eos did?
Eos and Ares had a relationship which pissed Aphrodite off, so she cursed Eos with unsatiable lust. With her heightened sexual desires, Eos had many partners and unfortunately, some of them she kidnapped and probably weren't willing partners...
But since Eos was cursed, she didnt really consent either and its not really her fault.
That would erase a couple of sexual assaults attempted by the male Gods too, because in some of those myths they were under the influence of either Eros or Aphrodite's control (both Apollo and Dionysus committed some sexual assaults after Eros shot them with his arrows for example).
Nop, because Aphrodite is responsible for ALL ACTS of love or lust. Like, you literaly cannot fall in love (or have lust) without the will of Aphrodite.
Yeah but Aphrodite allowing you to feel love and CURSING someone to have insatiable lust is different.
She did not "allowed" you to feel love. She DECIDED who you should fall in love with. Her powers are no different from the concept of a love potion. In the modern day the ideia of a love potion is bizarre, because it take always the free will, even if it is not gruesome. The same thing here. So you either blames Aphrodite for everything, or blames the offender. Eos commited the deeds, she is the offender. If you excuse Eos, them you should excuse Zeus, because he was also under Aphrodite power in every sexual assault he commited (according to the Homeric Hymm to Aphrodite).
A love potion in most fiction forces people to act on it, the way cupid or Aphrodite are supposed to make you fall in love doesnt force you to act on it. Its suppsed to be like normal love, where you love them but you can spend years not together and pining for them or move on and fall for someone else. That is still different than CURSING someone to have uncontrollable lust. Zues and the other gods didnt just do stuff cos she made them, they also did stuff they didnt have to act on and fucked with mortals out of boredom.
Read the Hymm to Aphrodite. Is made clear there that Aphrodite is responsible for every act of love and lust. You are not getting my point. Look at this way. Lets say person 1 fall in love with person 2, and this person 2 marries with person 1. Aphrodite has blessed them with love and marriage. Lets says now that person 1 have lust for person 2, and commits sexual assault against person 2. Aphrodite has cursed one of them. You see my point? But at the same time, no one was excused for their acts, still Aphrodite was behind every act of love or lust. Just like there is no storm without the will of Zeus, and there is no agriculture without the will of Demeter, there is no love or lust without the will of Aphrodite.
Eos acts very similar to Aphrodite.
There's a theory that Eos and Aphrodite could have been originally the same goddess that later split evolved over time as different goddesses
Unlikely since Aphrodite has a lot from Astarte the syrian goddess, while Eos is a old indo european deity from very ancient times.
How to make r/sailormoon subscribers feel uncomfortable.
And don’t forget Circe and Calypso.
Wasn’t Selene just gazing upon his beautiful face for eternity ?
No, they had like 50 kids
40 kids if I remember correctly
Almost every God has at least one SA myth. To shorten, here are the most notable myths I could find. Hermes and Apemosyne, “Althaimenes grandson of Minos] left Krete with his sister Apemosyne and went to a certain place on Rhodes . . . Not long after that he became the murderer of his sister. For Hermes developed a passion for Apemosyne; proving unable to catch her as she ran from him (she was swifter of foot than Hermes!), he strewed some newly stripped hides along the road, on which she slipped as she was returning from the spring. He then raped her. When she disclosed to her brother what had happened, Althaimenes took her story about the god to be an excuse, and killed her with a kick of his foot." https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/HermesLoves.html#Apemosyne Dionysus and Aura “The husband brought no gift; on the ground that hapless girl heavy with wine, unmoving, was wedded to Dionysos; Hypnos (Sleep) embraced the body of Aura with overshadowing winds, and he was marshal of the wedding for Bakkhos, for he also had experience of love, he is yokefellow of Selene (the Moon), he is companion of the Erotes (Loves) in nightly caresses. So the wedding was like a dream; for the capering dances, the hill skipt and leapt of itself, the Hamadryas half-visible shook her agemate fir--only maiden Ekho did not join in the mountain dance, but shamefast hid herself unapproachable under the foundations of the rock, that she might not behold the wedding of womanmad Dionysos.” https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/DionysosLoves.html#Aura And if Aura is discounted due to him being under Eros’ influence, to my knowledge Dionysus was not under his influence when he raped Nicaea. “He [Dionysos] remembered the bed of the Astakid Nymphe [Nikaia, of Lake Astakos] long before, how he had wooed the lovely Nymphe with a cunning potion and made sleep his guide to intoxicated bridals." https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/DionysosLoves.html#Nikaia Apollo and Dryope, according to Antonioni’s Liberalis’ account. “On one occasion, Dryope was seen by Apollo. In order to win her favours the god turned himself into a tortoise, of which the girls made a pet. The nymphs played with the animal and when Dryope had the tortoise on her lap, Apollo turned into a snake. The nymphs then got scared and abandoned her, and Apollo raped her.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryope_(daughter_of_Dryops)#:~:text=The%20nymphs%20played%20with%20the,married%20Andraemon%2C%20son%20of%20Oxylus. Ares also *technically* has a rape myth, if you’re counting his Roman equivalent Mars, who raped Rhea Silvia (I include this as I’ve seen people bring it up on discussions as to whether he ever actually raped anyone). There are more myths, but if I compiled a list of every SA myth, the comment would be too long for Reddit.
Hermes tried to rape Hekate too. She roared so terrifyingly that scared him, and the goddess got the epithet "Brimo" (terrifying)
Also with Ares, there are myths where the consent is *dubious* at best, "Phylonome, the daughter of Nyktimos and Arkadia, was wont to hunt with Artemis; but Ares, in the guise of a shepherd, got her with child.” By modern standards, having sex with her in disguise is a form of rape via deception. https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/AresLoves.html#Phylonome
I agree with rape by deception being something that the Greek gods did, even if it probably wasn't considered a crime then (or even until recently). However, I do wonder if all sex in a different form is rape. For example, Zeus taking the form of Alcmene's husband is definitely rape. So, if Ares took on the form of Phylonome's shepherd boyfriend, definitely rape. If Phylonome vowed never to have sex with Ares and he took on the form to trick her, again, definitely rape. But if he just took on the form of a random shepherd boy and seduced Phylonome is that rape? None of that changes you point that this one has dubious consent, it's just a point I wonder about.
That’s why I say it’s dubious. None of the texts I can find mentioning Phylonome state whether she was an enthusiastic participant, or if Ares just raped her in the form of a shepherd,
I mean, it's rare any text says if the female was an enthusiastic participant. And with cultural lenses and having to go through translators it's even harder. I mean, most of the marriages we see in the myths are probably forced marriages and include a lot of rape.
There’s also Triteia, sea nymph and maiden/virgin priestess to Athena. It doesn’t explicitly say he forced himself on her but— as a priestess of Athena, she had sworn an oath of virginity. So like, he must have.
Priestess of Athena really swore for eternal virginity? The is a source for that?
People break vows.
I find it hard to believe a priestess of Athena would consort with her divine opposite without any coercion
Sure. But it's not impossible. I'm not saying it was consensual, I'm saying it's not complete proof it wasn't.
Fair enough
Why are Greek myths so brutal ☠️😭
Kinda ironic that ares is the greek god with the best rep considering the values of greeks at the time
Hestia...? Other than that I'm not sure
Minor Gods have no myths where they sexually assault anyone, but that might be because they're so minor there are few story of them to begin with!
Yeah. Some exist in a list of children and that's it.
Hestia and Athena and artemis
Artemis was angry with Aura once because Aura implied that Artemis was impure. Artemis's response? Ask Nemesis to "punish" Aura, and when Nemesis suggested making Dionysus rape her, Artemis was fully on board.
Artemis and Athena are not doing SA but they still did bad shit.
That wasn't the question, though.
What does that have to do with the OP question?
specifically relating to SA, artemis turned callisto into a bear because she got raped and impregnated by zeus and in (i think ovid's) roman mythology medusa was raped by poseidon in athena's temple and athena turned her into a gorgon but thats just a difference in telling as most accept medusa was born a gorgon.
Isn't Medusa being SAed a translator's opinion rather than what Ovid might have wanted? Since Ovid doesn't really clear whether it was rape or some consenting act?
I imagine it was probably some creative liberty from a translator, however it makes sense within mythology given that Poseidon wasnt a guy big on consent so i can also see it being something he did write in himself.
Yes but that goes with Athena aswell, generally she's known to defend rape victims, and even Ovid is explicit about it, since in his story of Coroneis he shows Athena defending her from Poseidon so then it becomes hard to say she won't defend Medusa is she was being forced. Which is understandable why Ovid cannot say if Medusa was consenting or not because he wasn't really focusing on her, he was writing the story of Perseus from his own knowing and lens, and during Perseus' story Medusa was mentioned in like a couple of lines. Unlike Ovid giving his version of Arachne where it's like many paragraphs.
i assumed it was more telling of poseidon's character then athena's. from athena's perspective they had sex in her temple, and from medusa's she was raped.
>i assumed it was more telling of poseidon's character then athena's. which story?
medusa being raped and turned into a gorgon involved both poseidon and athena
If my memory isn't wrong Artemis in Ovid Metamorphosis turns an unsuspecting hunter into a deer, to be mauled by his dogs, just for stumbling upon her on bath time.
I'll go out on a limb and say any of the virgin goddesses. Possibly some of the non-virgin goddeses, but I'm not going to support that claim.
Artemis and Athena have been on board with others’ SA
That's a fair call.
Don't think I would consider Medusa a part of that since thod-thod thinks Medusa counts as such, while I don't think Ovid really wanted it to be SA or if he was clear whether it's SA or not. Also I don't think even if Minerva had punished a SAed victim that means she's okay with SA. Regardless, what's up with Aethra and Athena? would that be an SA? Neither that one is explicit as far as I can understand.
Who said Medusa?
No one is safe, Ares killed his daughter’s, the virgins have all been nearly victimized.
What daughter did Ares killed? He killed the rapist of his daughter Alcipe, not her.
I know, that’s what I’m saying by ‘he killed his daughter’s.’
Bealive it or don't.Ares.
War god. Antagonistic piece of shit. Owner of violence. THE ONLY GOD WITH A BALANCED LIBIDO Greeks really knew how to “nuh huh” your expectations
Athena?
Unless you count victim-blaming Medusa I guess
That depends what version of the story you go with. The original greek myth originally didn't contain that, but the roman poet Ovid added in that part of the story later.
If it’s in popular culture around the myth, then I count it as part of the myth. The stories developed over millennia, there’s no point looking for the “purest” version of them
It's not even in myth, if some translator wants to make it some SA thing that's not "popular culture around the myth" We don't know if Medusa was SAed in Ovid's as he doesn't make it explicit, we are left to wonder about it, while Ovid in his other works portrays Athena as a defender of victims not blamer.
Is it if the god is the SAer or is it if the god is the victim?
Eros might be one, but I can’t swear by it.
He forced Apollo to rape Daphne, thereby violating both Apollo's and Daphne's consent.
Only Daphne. Every act of love and lust is under the command of Eros and Aphrodite. You cannot have love or lust if Aphrodite dont want (and Eros too sometimes).
He specifically did this to punish Apollo because he knew Apollo didn't want it. In fact, he didn't merely inspire lust in Apollo, he compelled Apollo to pursue Daphne. Apollo describes himself as unfree, and he very briefly understands who compels him to act the way he does. > In shooting have I stedfast hand, but surer hand had hee > That made this wound within my heart that heretofore was free. *From Golding's Translation of the Metamorphoses* (Edited for source)
Every act of love and lust comes from Aphrodite and Eros. Eros could made Apollo fall in love with Daphne, and them he could made Daphne fall in love with Apollo. What you think of this situation? Every person and god CANNOT fall in love or have lust for someone without Aphrodite/Eros will. Every person Apollo loved (and they loved back) was because of Eros and Aphrodite too, you see my point? The good and bad of love and lust, all comes from these two, this still never excused the participants (in this case, Apollo).
I think it's a little more complicated than that. There are differences in the purposes of story between times when people feel attraction and Eros isn't a character with a full will and personality and times when Eros **is** granted a full will and personality in the story. In this story, he is specifically said to do this out of malice because he knew Apollo would hate it. The framing of the story is extremely different than most stories involving characters experiencing lust or love, so I think the story needs to be interpreted differently.
Pretty sure Ares never took advantage of anyone, despite the actions of his *Blood of Zeus* counterpart
Thanatos is a good boy
I was just thinking Thanatos I never read anything problematic about him. Watch I am wrong, but he think he was pretty chill.
The Greeks did not think of sexual assault as we do, neither did they think of consent or female personhood in modern terms. This had widespread ramifications in their myths. Gods fathered children on mortals, and people claimed descent from such children as a great honor. Gods could not marry mortals, so such conceptions were out-of-wedlock, and woman had no right to consent to out-of-wedlock intercourse in the first place. This means every single major deity from whom people would like to claim association has some myth that could feasibly be construed as sexual assault. This includes Ares, who raped Rhea Silvia as Mars and fathered the entire nation of Rome.
Hecate/gaia/nyx to my knowledge
As far as I’m aware, Ares never sexually assaulted anyone, and, in fact, *hated* rapists. He unleashed un-holy Hell on a guy that raped one of his daughters.
Every goddess with exception of Calypso, Eos and Selene. Of course some goddess were involved with this subjetc, but were not the offender itself. Only Calypso, Eos and Selene forced men, but the other goddess never forced.
I don't think Asclepius has one, but i can be corrected. He's mostly just the medic and the snake guy.
It may be difficult to observe and understand, rather than project modern western sensibilities on ancient stories and internalize percieved injury, but we should try nonetheless.
I'm sure I'm going to get roasted, but here goes. Hades. I know he kidnapped Persephone, but did he actually SA her?
I don't think Eros has...?
Hestia never SA'd anybody cuz she's pure and innocent but I feel she's almost *been* SA'd on MANY occasions
I wanted to say Hades as the only one, but then I remembered that there are some versions where he SAs Persephone along with force feeding her pomegranate. I know less than others here, so there might be one god who doesn't have any myths where he has forced himself onto an unwilling mortal, or goddess/god. But I wouldn't count on it.
Are there versions where he doesn't?
Can you tell me a version where he doesn't rape Persephone? Because I can't find any
In the best of readings, absolutely any wrongdoing is put on Zeus. Hades sometimes feeds/tricks her regarding the seeds, but even that is more a mythological explanation besides marriage for her staying in the underworld. Also apparently the Greeks used the same poses/stuff for “rape” and “kidnap” so several stories become however you want to read it. At best, Hades-Persephone is just an arranged marriage.
I'm not sure, I probably just heard it somewhere and thought of it as true. I don't actively read into myths a lot as I probably should. My bad for accidentally spreading misinfo. But as I said others in the comments know far more than I do. I just read things periodically and forget.
It's okay misinformation and misconception happens all the time in this sub, heck even I get the myths wrong
That's why we ask for sources and report unsourced claims.
I mean not that it matters, any of the new retellings in the modern versions of him. He is basically everyone’s favorite morally gray Booktok boyfriend. They kinda gloss over the actual myth. The author of Touch of Darkness said, those myths were just fanfics of the time and you can tell by her writings.
Most, if not all women
Selene calypso probably eos circe if you consider odysseus having to sleep with her to get her to turn his men back to people SA
If you don’t like rape then Greek Mythology is just not for you.
Do *you* like rape? Or did you just word your sentence horribly?
No but that’s a lot of what there is in.
Yes, but you can still like Greek mythology for its other themes and messages without *liking* rape. Greek myths are a product of their time, and many events are regarded completely differently in modern times than they were thousands of years ago. It's okay to accept that and to be unhappy with *parts* of the stories. Rapists are the only people who like rape. Everybody else hates it. I truly hope you just misworded your sentence because it gives off horrible vibes.
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Notice how almost no one could give you a concise answer because there’s almost nothing there.