So for me, it’s the fact that the GK are all psychers which gives them that extra “cool” factor. AFAIK they are the only chapter where every member is a psycher, they are super-secretive (which has been admittedly mishandled somewhat in certain parts of the lore), and they are also the only chapter with terminator armor available for every member. Also, I like how they are sent into no-win situations against the worst enemies of humanity, and they still come out victorious through sacrifice, tenacity, and using the Warp against its own denizens.
Aside from that, the Deathwatch having the moniker of “kill all xeno” regardless of circumstance or benefit just never resonated with me. I get that it’s part of the grim dark that makes up 40K, but just not my personal cup of tea.
The fact that there's only 1000 members, that their grand master appears from the warp when he's most needed, and that they are sent on primarily suicide missions or even help other factions fight back the tides of chaos even though few will return are what make them my favorite
Sacrifice, movement and positioning are what wins the game with the grey Bois. We don't table opponents, we leave them wondering if they can keep up with the points.
The fact that there's only 1000 members, that their grand master appears from the warp when he's most needed, and that they are sent on primarily suicide missions or even help other factions fight back the tides of chaos even though few will return are what make them my favorite
Sacrifice, movement and positioning are what wins the game with the grey Bois. We don't table opponents, we leave them wondering if they can keep up with the points.
Finally, someone else on this sub who gets it! Their premise is a little insane and I absolutely love it. Also they're Terminator armor is just cooler looking than normal terminator armor. I also love that they have a mech there's explicitly meant to punch greater demons in the face, I love that they are allowed to use xenotech and even potentially abominable intelligence and psionic vehicles, I love that they just have a basement full of trapped demons that they keep suppressed at all times just cuz, I love that to become a great night you must pass 666 trials that have a .01% survival rate. I love that on the tabletop one unit of gray nights together counts as a single psycher and that they have insanely high survival rates. I love that the whole philosophy of deploying them is shit, this world is completely overrun by chaos, better send a third dude
Well the Grey Knights will also kill entire planets, loyal guard regiments if they even see demons. Just to keep Chaos a secret from the greater Imperium. Literally started a war with the Space Wolves over the massacre of civilians and Astra Militarum.
Deathwatch are just regular marines with a couple of fancy weapons. Grey knights are magic sword wielding, magic-fire casting paladins in cool armour.
When I first started with 40k, I couldn't decide on an army for a long time. Then the 3rd edition GK terminator box was released and the decision was made for me instantly.
If you prefer the modern military special forces aesthetics, go for marines. If your prefer the fantasy knight holy warrior, go for GK.
You sir make a compelling argument. I just heavily dislike the space mutts so, while I did get the deathwing assault box, I think I might pick up some Grey Knights.
Play style.
Grey Knights are a high mobility army. In my opinion, correct movement is the most important and challenging part of 40k. So I find them challenging and rewarding to play.
Lore wise, both Deathwatch and Grey Knights are awesome.
The grey knights’ lore blunders were years ago iirc, the deathwatch’s is very recent. By which I mean directly aiding chaos just to fuck over the ynnari. Don’t get me wrong I won’t be shedding tears for the eldar, but that’s just so stupid on so many levels.
I wanna kill daemons, not aliens.
Cooler helmets.
Used to be a more elite-feeling army back before you had to rely on Dreadknights to scratch the paint on something above T6 quite as much; 10 Paladins + Apothecary + Draigo being a third of an army and probably the actual correct starting point in several previous editions made them a great way to buy a 2k pt army for cheap.
I had a mostly Grey Knight army in 3rd ed when it was just Termies and Inquisitors. It'd never have been allowed in a tournament. But it was fun to wreck my friends Chaos armies all over our dining tables.
The power fantasy of being a space wizard who hunts demons appeals to me a lot more than "space marines but somehow even more xenophobic." Deathwatch wasn't even a choice on the table for me.
I have grown to adore how Grey Knights play, too, and the models look awesome, even if they are dated
I just live the idea if the Grey Knights pretty much being Men in Black except with daemons instead of aliens. An entire faction who are both on constant special operations, wear power armour and have magical powers? Sign me the hell up
Aesthetic and lore choice
In your case, the choice lies between shining magic space paladins that hunts daemons
Or the avengers of xenocide
The blackstar is cool and all, but i'm not really a marvel guy
I like the grey knights more than the deathwatch simply for the fact that the Knights are, well, Knights. Psychic Space Paladins hellbent on destroying demons? Dope as hell.
In terms of lore, it's the whole cream of the crop psykers whose existence will be kept secret by any means necessary aspect. The men in black of the imperium, as it were.
Mechanically, death watch strike me as "Space Marine +" whereas GK are actually mechanically distinct from SM.
I love the fact that Grey Knights are all Psykers and are so elite and secretive that most people don’t know their existence. I also like DnD’s Paladins and GK reminds me of the pally
Cool unit structures. Better standard weapons than regular space marines. Teleportarium shenanigans. They can borrow other factions rules.
You can put in specific models to a unit that will grant extra bonuses, like adding a terminator or aggressor or even bikers to a unit of regular marine.
The regular marine units can get decked out with the best gear. Storm sheilds being one of the most famous. Expensive but cool.
And it was one of the only space marine units that could put almost any units in a teleportarium and drop them in turn 2 for really insane combos.
I used to run 2 squads of 5 eradicators and 5 heavy intercessors in the teleportarium. Drop them in turn 2 with a chaplain and biker captain with a relic that granted a 5++ to everything in 6".
So you ended up with 20 melta shots and a bunch of heavy bolter fire with crazy rerolls and buffs that would basically delete anything it wanted to, wherever it wanted to. And after that it would be hard to remove t5 3 would models that had a 5++. Was busted. But because so few people play deathwatch or invest the mo ey that's needed they will always be obscure.
I think psykers are dope, and Grey Knights aren’t absolutely crazy xenophobes. Not a huge fan of some of the weird blood ritual stuff they wrote up a few editions ago, but heard that was retconed
I believe it was. I myself am not a fan of the “leave no witnesses murder them all” thing they had going on which i think has gone away with the Imperium Nihilus stuff
Because deathwatch are just space marines, sure they are the special forces of space marines, but they are still just that.
Grey knights are the peak level of a space marine and then some more. All psykers, all trained to a degree that no other chapters can compare, all made to be as anti daemon as possible.
They wear and use different armour and weapons that no other space marines have and have a duty not even custodes could probably do.
When they show up it means something really bad is about to happen because they only ever get deployed when a planet is on the edge of turning into a daemon world.
Plus they look pretty badass
They have different appeals. Grey Knights are holy warriors who fight Daemons and rally against the darkness. Deathwatch are the Rainbow Six of Space Marines.
GK are usable on the Tabletop, DW not so much right now.
Alternatively both are really cool, but DW always seemed more like a fun Kill Team, or Combat Patrol, than a full scale force.
The Brotherhood has a kind of Knightly feel and aesthetic, where the DW has a very Special Ops, small unit feel. Both really cool, both really different.
Hi, why aren’t DW doing so well now?
I remember a batrep last year with GK v DW and the DW were dropping super shooty units next to GKs. The GK could only run and play secondaries as they lack the firepower to stem the DW units.
It appeared to me they were like GK dropping in everywhere, but had some meaningful shooting.
Wondering why that playstyle isnt doing well atm.
Thanks
As I've stipulated I'm a GK player, and made my choice, so not as in the know on Deathwatch, but the Two most recent state of game meta analysis I've seen has GK at a win rate of 56 and 54% respectively, and the DW at 43-44%.
I don't think it's necessarily intrinsic flaws per se, as much as costing, and the fact DW, suffers from the same issues we did earlier in the data slate, with not enough anti-tank for the current toughness meta, but without the recent buffs our NDK, GMDK, and hammer profiles got, and without as much reliable repositioning as our teleport shunting allows for.
Both units are near the bottom in Kill Team ATM, as compendium armies, who are almost universally lost to the power creep of the Bespoke teams. I'd really like to see them get their own upgraded boxes.
Grey Knights are a much more elite, focused, and aesthetically cohesive army. When I started again after a 15 year hiatus I did a coin flip to decide if I wanted to play Imperial Guard or GK. Deathwatch weren't even on the radar, much less than Space Marines or Custodes.
Yeah, I figured 😉. I’m curious to see if it will go down the party line. I think there is a specific draw to each, partly due to the secret vs public nature of their organization.
Because teleporting space wizard paladins with exploding machine guns and soul blades that hunt daemons and have a strict no witnesses policy is way fucking cooler than an elite penance legion that hates other species?
Deathwatch, Purge the Xenos Filth
Grey knights, Purge the Daemon Filth
Adeptus Sororitas, Purge the Heretic
Main 3 factions of the Inquisition pretty much
For me its the fact that grey knights are a chapter, whether undermanned or over idk, but deathwatch has always been a killteam kjnd of org not a army themselves. So they are attached as task forces either doing spec ops stuff or attached to inquisition comandeerwd forces as opposed to full armies of just deathwatch.
In my mind that plays like an agents of imperium allies kind of rule.
At the start I should mention that I know barely any Death Watch lore. So this is all my very bias opinion.
Because to me, Death Watch looks too much like every other space marine legion. And by design they aren't that much different either. They are just Astartes who are damn good at killing xenos. Now you could make the argument that Grey Knights are only Astartes who are damn good at killing deamons but there are other things. 'Big E's last gift', 'founded by the tube-neck guy', '#wetotallydon'texist'. Now, to be fair, I'm sure that Death Watch also has some extreamly cool side to them (after all who in Warhammer doesn't). But I just don't find: 'The xeno killer ammunition 2000' and 'our big house full of bugs' that special.
Now, I'd just like to emphasize that I don't want to shit on Death Watch. Their design is still pretty cool but I just don't like them. I could sh*t talk every WH40k faction and then praise them for twice as long. But there are just some that I like better then others.
If you’re a fan of Inquisitor Eisenhorn you can join me by fielding his Mini (with a squad of Inquisitorial Henchmen) shoulder-to-shoulder alongside Grey Knights!
Given that the Inquisition and the Grey K’s Chapter were effectively formed simultaneously from a hand-picked pool of 12 people in the dying days of The Horus Heresy, it makes super cool thematic sense to pop those two factions side by side.
(Plus Eisenhorn is one of the few Inquisitors who can actually serve a purpose in-game imo…the ability to completely deny an enemy unit from shooting is epic)
Personally I would always go GK over Deathwatch but I understand your dilemma as both are awesome.
Imagine chairing a pre-battle strategy meeting with both of ‘em though…
Me: “We should capitalise on the terrain advantages and take the high ground, setting up a firebase and maximising our chance to flank from the East. Also, our Astropaths just received comms from a contingent of Aeldari already engaged with the Daemon threat planet-side. They are suggesting a temporary alliance against these overwhelming odds. It may be unconventional but I believe we should consider this offer. We are outnumbered ten thousand to one.”
Grey Knight Commander: [Eyes closed, meditating and focusing his mind, gives an almost imperceptible nod]
“I seek only the annihilation of the Daemon threat. All else is irrelevant and my Brothers have survived odds more dire even than these.”
Deathwatch Commander: [Arrives to the meeting covered in blood, and slams a severed Farseer’s head on the table] - “MY SCOUTS HAVE ELIMINATED THE XENOS THREAT. SORRY I’M LATE.”
DW being mixed is the coolest factor considering otherwise these marines are heavily indoctrinated towards their primarch. For that reason i feel DW is undeniably an imperium faction with the best fighting capabilities
Oh easy. They're just SO much cooler. Has a deathwatch marine ever PERSONALLY defeated a demon primarch? Grey Knights Supreme Grandmaster Kaldor Draigo fought Demon Primarch Mortarion ONE ON ONE and found his "true name" (daemons weakness) and using his immense psychic powers combined with that was able to not just defeat and banish him back to the warp, but also CUT MORTARIONS HEART OUT OF HIS CHEST, CARVED THE NAME OF THE PREVIOUS GRANDMASTER WHO MORTARION HAD KILLED INTO THE HEART AND STUFFED IT BACK IN HIS CHEST BEFORE BANISHING HIM!!!
That sums up how cool the grey knights are with a nice bow on top lol. Other characters like Grandmaster Voldus fought with Calgar amd Guilliman after his resurrection. Castellan Crowe has so much mental fortitude and toughness that he is the ONLY person in the entire imperium trusted with the demonic black blade of Antwyr (remember even Fulgrim fell to a demon blades corruption) and the blade HATES him for it lol. Crowe's model looks amazing too.
Not enough for you? The legend of the silver knight states that an unnamed "silver knight" (clearly a grey knight from the descriptions of the text) sought out to defeat Slaanesh. He went BY HIMSELF into Slaanesh's palace and overcame every single layer of the palace and its seduction even making it to Slaaneshs court only falling once Slaanesh HIMSELF got up and attacked him! Not a single grey knight has ever fell to chaos otherwise.
They are ALL made not from just a Primarchs geneseed/DNA but from the EMPEROR HIMSELFS OWN DNA as well! Thus they are all very powerful Psykers with heavy anti-warp protections. Their original first Grandmaster was implanted with a shard of the soul of FRICKING MAGNUS THE RED!!
Just so much cooler. And they have all the same ties to the inquisition that the Deathwatch have. Plus they have quite a bit larger number of chapter specific models compared to Deathwatch.
It’s weird I was just having this conversation with a friend, and asked why Deathwatch even exists. I get that they are kinda like the Inquisitions way of pulling from the various SM chapters, but there is no way that they are as effective as the GKs and I’m not really sure why anyone would pick them over the GKs or any other SM faction.
Because I have Spehs Muhreenz (Blood Ravens!) and I have zero intention of buying more Spehs Muhreen models that fill a similar niche. GK lore wise and mechanic wise, are so different and the play styles are really to my liking
Because... Ahem. RIP AND TEAR UNTIL IT IS DONE! but Warhammer 40k and knights. I would love to see a comic or something of doom guy appearing and the grey knights see him, kneel and say "Our primarch has finally returned to us!" Doom guy sees their weapons and armor and just nods.
I dislike the deathwatch. I think someone built this army when they looked at the spare space marine models they had lying around. There are only 5 total kits (6 if you include the combat patrol that has 0 unique models). I think the whole Xeno hatred thing can be justified in the lore for certain characters, but it just feels goofy to me. The imperium will work with Xenos and the need for a specialist unit seems over the top, but I guess the inquisition loves power.
Now Grey Knights. Badass Space Marines that have the emperor's gene seed. Draigo is a bit of a Mary Sue in what he can do, but a lot of his lore could be explained if he was carrying Magnus' Noble shard like the first supreme grand master was. They are also in charge of the Terminus Decree, in Malcador's tomb on Titan. Only the Supreme Grand Master even knows it's there. The army itself is all Pyskers, and while the movement tricks are nice on the tabletop, I am hoping for a detachment to make them feel like the psykers there were in 9th edition once more. I think my favorite character of theirs is Hyperion, the Blade Breaker. Dude blew out half his brain to destroy Angron's sword on Armageddon.
If you really are dead set on going Deathwatch or Grey Knights, wait until the release of Agents of the Imperium codex to see what is in it. Rumor is one or both of Grey Knights/Deathwatch are going to be a part of that and given the support in the rules
I like the terminator amour and psykers. I don’t like the kill all xenos attitude the deathwatch have I think it’s way more interesting when the grey knights use daemons for their own missions
I remember the Daemonhunters codex coming out in 3rd and it really captured my imagination then, and they're still my favourite! I've looked at Deathwatch, they're a cool concept but never really captured my imagination.
Secret super powerful incorruptible psychers zealot deamon hunters is all I needed to hear. Reading the novels only confirmed my love for them, and I even love the models (specially Crowe, but I like even the baby carriers). Also chaos and daemons seem a more interesting/pernitious enemy to me than hordes of xenos, and that made the GKs more interesting to me than the DW.
I just think they look cooler I guess. Paired with the whole psyker thing + emperor geneseed. Lorewise they’re pretty cool (not saying the deathwatch aren’t by any means)
Have you read “The Emporers Gift”? Very good GK novel and there is an AWESOME connection to eisenhorn i didnt realize until after reading the Ravenor series
Who said I liked either lol, grey knights are genocidal maniacs and Death watch are boring, I think I'll stick to my xenophobic war criminal black templars lol 🤣☠️
They literally have the Emperor’s Gene-seed and literally give custodes pause
And if i remember a female inquisitor thought such a waste that she could not experience their thunder hammers after see one get out of the shower.
I love the aesthetic of the deathwatch but I prefer the grey knights due to them feeling like more of a fleshed out faction as opposed to a sub-faction.
Because they look special. Death Watch are just basic bitch Space Marines with a fancy shoulder pad… I modded my Death Watch to look really different but even with 3D printed flood lights (void marines) they don’t look as good as my Grey Knights and even my Sisters of Battle…
So for me, it’s the fact that the GK are all psychers which gives them that extra “cool” factor. AFAIK they are the only chapter where every member is a psycher, they are super-secretive (which has been admittedly mishandled somewhat in certain parts of the lore), and they are also the only chapter with terminator armor available for every member. Also, I like how they are sent into no-win situations against the worst enemies of humanity, and they still come out victorious through sacrifice, tenacity, and using the Warp against its own denizens. Aside from that, the Deathwatch having the moniker of “kill all xeno” regardless of circumstance or benefit just never resonated with me. I get that it’s part of the grim dark that makes up 40K, but just not my personal cup of tea.
The fact that there's only 1000 members, that their grand master appears from the warp when he's most needed, and that they are sent on primarily suicide missions or even help other factions fight back the tides of chaos even though few will return are what make them my favorite Sacrifice, movement and positioning are what wins the game with the grey Bois. We don't table opponents, we leave them wondering if they can keep up with the points.
FAITH IS OUR SHIELD! 🛡️
WE ARE THE HAMMER!
CHAOS CANNOT STAND AGAINST US!!!! 🔥 🦅
Blood for the blood God! Wait... I meant .... For the emperor?
Get outta here you filthy heretic 🤣 disturbed my warp meditation I was looking for the garden of Nurgle…
Yes Commissar...it's this one right here...yes sir...double heresy...afraid so...
The fact that there's only 1000 members, that their grand master appears from the warp when he's most needed, and that they are sent on primarily suicide missions or even help other factions fight back the tides of chaos even though few will return are what make them my favorite Sacrifice, movement and positioning are what wins the game with the grey Bois. We don't table opponents, we leave them wondering if they can keep up with the points.
I don't think there is only 1000. They do not follow the codex a started and exact numbers have never been given (to my knowledge)
Finally, someone else on this sub who gets it! Their premise is a little insane and I absolutely love it. Also they're Terminator armor is just cooler looking than normal terminator armor. I also love that they have a mech there's explicitly meant to punch greater demons in the face, I love that they are allowed to use xenotech and even potentially abominable intelligence and psionic vehicles, I love that they just have a basement full of trapped demons that they keep suppressed at all times just cuz, I love that to become a great night you must pass 666 trials that have a .01% survival rate. I love that on the tabletop one unit of gray nights together counts as a single psycher and that they have insanely high survival rates. I love that the whole philosophy of deploying them is shit, this world is completely overrun by chaos, better send a third dude
Well the Thousand Sons also all held a psychic gift to some degree. However some were less and some more gifted.
Were never a chapter tho.
Deathwatch are xenophobic nut jobs. GK just out here saving the galaxy from the nightmares of chaos.
have u seen the xenos tho
Tau Eldar and Necrons can be reasoned with. Chaos cannot
Tf you mean necrons can be reasoned with. Literally fucking the exterminators of all life
Necrons allied with the Blood Angels against the Tyranids and let them live afterwards. That's pretty reasonable for 40k.
That's one necron dynasty, tho. But yeah, that's a fair point
Completely different necrons dynasty; Trazyn helped Cawl with the Blackstone pylons.
Trazyn
Trazyn on Cadia
Doubtful. *Maybe* some of the Eldar.
At least the Drukhari are reasonable, I mean...yeah they'll turn you into an end table, but like...it'll be a sweet end table.
Pretty selective range of xenos there. I'd argue chaos is more reasonable than Tyranids.
I could see that
Exactly I’m with based watch simply because I hate the over power poorly written space marines who can somehow beat a demon primarch
And if your favorite part of Men in Black were the neralizer memory eraser thingies, I know exactly the faction for you!
Well the Grey Knights will also kill entire planets, loyal guard regiments if they even see demons. Just to keep Chaos a secret from the greater Imperium. Literally started a war with the Space Wolves over the massacre of civilians and Astra Militarum.
Deathwatch are just regular marines with a couple of fancy weapons. Grey knights are magic sword wielding, magic-fire casting paladins in cool armour. When I first started with 40k, I couldn't decide on an army for a long time. Then the 3rd edition GK terminator box was released and the decision was made for me instantly. If you prefer the modern military special forces aesthetics, go for marines. If your prefer the fantasy knight holy warrior, go for GK.
You sir make a compelling argument. I just heavily dislike the space mutts so, while I did get the deathwing assault box, I think I might pick up some Grey Knights.
Play style. Grey Knights are a high mobility army. In my opinion, correct movement is the most important and challenging part of 40k. So I find them challenging and rewarding to play. Lore wise, both Deathwatch and Grey Knights are awesome.
They are and I’m really stuck down the middle
The grey knights’ lore blunders were years ago iirc, the deathwatch’s is very recent. By which I mean directly aiding chaos just to fuck over the ynnari. Don’t get me wrong I won’t be shedding tears for the eldar, but that’s just so stupid on so many levels.
I wanna kill daemons, not aliens. Cooler helmets. Used to be a more elite-feeling army back before you had to rely on Dreadknights to scratch the paint on something above T6 quite as much; 10 Paladins + Apothecary + Draigo being a third of an army and probably the actual correct starting point in several previous editions made them a great way to buy a 2k pt army for cheap.
I had a mostly Grey Knight army in 3rd ed when it was just Termies and Inquisitors. It'd never have been allowed in a tournament. But it was fun to wreck my friends Chaos armies all over our dining tables.
The power fantasy of being a space wizard who hunts demons appeals to me a lot more than "space marines but somehow even more xenophobic." Deathwatch wasn't even a choice on the table for me. I have grown to adore how Grey Knights play, too, and the models look awesome, even if they are dated
I just live the idea if the Grey Knights pretty much being Men in Black except with daemons instead of aliens. An entire faction who are both on constant special operations, wear power armour and have magical powers? Sign me the hell up
Hate Daemons, simple as :p
Aesthetic and lore choice In your case, the choice lies between shining magic space paladins that hunts daemons Or the avengers of xenocide The blackstar is cool and all, but i'm not really a marvel guy
Space Wizard Faction created by The Sigilite. Also the playstyle of elite Infantry jumping around.
Do love me some Malcador
I like the grey knights more than the deathwatch simply for the fact that the Knights are, well, Knights. Psychic Space Paladins hellbent on destroying demons? Dope as hell.
In terms of lore, it's the whole cream of the crop psykers whose existence will be kept secret by any means necessary aspect. The men in black of the imperium, as it were. Mechanically, death watch strike me as "Space Marine +" whereas GK are actually mechanically distinct from SM.
We have cooler terminator armor. Also: Army of space wizards
I know the GK don’t always go out in full Terminator plate but I loved the visual of these elite warriors teleporting into combat in full tank armor.
I described them as “Demon hunting Jedi in tank armor” to my brother who doesn’t know 40K Why would I not want to play that?
I love the fact that Grey Knights are all Psykers and are so elite and secretive that most people don’t know their existence. I also like DnD’s Paladins and GK reminds me of the pally
I don’t, I love both.
Is this a lore or tabletop discussion?
Most definitely both, I’m a very big lore nerd however
I don’t even really know what the Deathwatch do on the table?
Cool unit structures. Better standard weapons than regular space marines. Teleportarium shenanigans. They can borrow other factions rules. You can put in specific models to a unit that will grant extra bonuses, like adding a terminator or aggressor or even bikers to a unit of regular marine. The regular marine units can get decked out with the best gear. Storm sheilds being one of the most famous. Expensive but cool. And it was one of the only space marine units that could put almost any units in a teleportarium and drop them in turn 2 for really insane combos. I used to run 2 squads of 5 eradicators and 5 heavy intercessors in the teleportarium. Drop them in turn 2 with a chaplain and biker captain with a relic that granted a 5++ to everything in 6". So you ended up with 20 melta shots and a bunch of heavy bolter fire with crazy rerolls and buffs that would basically delete anything it wanted to, wherever it wanted to. And after that it would be hard to remove t5 3 would models that had a 5++. Was busted. But because so few people play deathwatch or invest the mo ey that's needed they will always be obscure.
I’d rather play KOTOR than Aliens: Dark Descent
I think psykers are dope, and Grey Knights aren’t absolutely crazy xenophobes. Not a huge fan of some of the weird blood ritual stuff they wrote up a few editions ago, but heard that was retconed
I believe it was. I myself am not a fan of the “leave no witnesses murder them all” thing they had going on which i think has gone away with the Imperium Nihilus stuff
Because grey knights are incorruptible and fight the biggest threat
I love the Deathwatch because they are focused on putting to gather the best team for the job, no matter what chapter
Ooh a comment supportive of DW on this subreddit. First one of the two posts, appreciate it.
Their Comic Book is also really good. Shows the different Characters they have and still manage to achieve their goals
Color scheme
Because deathwatch are just space marines, sure they are the special forces of space marines, but they are still just that. Grey knights are the peak level of a space marine and then some more. All psykers, all trained to a degree that no other chapters can compare, all made to be as anti daemon as possible. They wear and use different armour and weapons that no other space marines have and have a duty not even custodes could probably do. When they show up it means something really bad is about to happen because they only ever get deployed when a planet is on the edge of turning into a daemon world. Plus they look pretty badass
Based watch
They have different appeals. Grey Knights are holy warriors who fight Daemons and rally against the darkness. Deathwatch are the Rainbow Six of Space Marines.
GK are usable on the Tabletop, DW not so much right now. Alternatively both are really cool, but DW always seemed more like a fun Kill Team, or Combat Patrol, than a full scale force. The Brotherhood has a kind of Knightly feel and aesthetic, where the DW has a very Special Ops, small unit feel. Both really cool, both really different.
Hi, why aren’t DW doing so well now? I remember a batrep last year with GK v DW and the DW were dropping super shooty units next to GKs. The GK could only run and play secondaries as they lack the firepower to stem the DW units. It appeared to me they were like GK dropping in everywhere, but had some meaningful shooting. Wondering why that playstyle isnt doing well atm. Thanks
As I've stipulated I'm a GK player, and made my choice, so not as in the know on Deathwatch, but the Two most recent state of game meta analysis I've seen has GK at a win rate of 56 and 54% respectively, and the DW at 43-44%. I don't think it's necessarily intrinsic flaws per se, as much as costing, and the fact DW, suffers from the same issues we did earlier in the data slate, with not enough anti-tank for the current toughness meta, but without the recent buffs our NDK, GMDK, and hammer profiles got, and without as much reliable repositioning as our teleport shunting allows for. Both units are near the bottom in Kill Team ATM, as compendium armies, who are almost universally lost to the power creep of the Bespoke teams. I'd really like to see them get their own upgraded boxes.
Grey Knights are a much more elite, focused, and aesthetically cohesive army. When I started again after a 15 year hiatus I did a coin flip to decide if I wanted to play Imperial Guard or GK. Deathwatch weren't even on the radar, much less than Space Marines or Custodes.
Given that this is a Grey Knights subreddit….. I’m curious to see the answers 🤔
That’s why I posted it in the deathwatch subreddit too. Getting great answers already.
Yeah, I figured 😉. I’m curious to see if it will go down the party line. I think there is a specific draw to each, partly due to the secret vs public nature of their organization.
Personally I’m a Grey Knights guy, because it’s hard to be more metal than this lot.
I really enjoyed the Psyshic phase...
I started in 7th edition and the grey knights were significantly less complex to pilot as an army.
Cuz we used to be psychic bullet boys not just speedboys
Because teleporting space wizard paladins with exploding machine guns and soul blades that hunt daemons and have a strict no witnesses policy is way fucking cooler than an elite penance legion that hates other species?
Helmet cooler.
Deathwatch, Purge the Xenos Filth Grey knights, Purge the Daemon Filth Adeptus Sororitas, Purge the Heretic Main 3 factions of the Inquisition pretty much
Appearance. Deathwatch are just another Marines, who look pretty repetitive. Also Lorewise GK is an army full of psykers.
For me its the fact that grey knights are a chapter, whether undermanned or over idk, but deathwatch has always been a killteam kjnd of org not a army themselves. So they are attached as task forces either doing spec ops stuff or attached to inquisition comandeerwd forces as opposed to full armies of just deathwatch. In my mind that plays like an agents of imperium allies kind of rule.
At the start I should mention that I know barely any Death Watch lore. So this is all my very bias opinion. Because to me, Death Watch looks too much like every other space marine legion. And by design they aren't that much different either. They are just Astartes who are damn good at killing xenos. Now you could make the argument that Grey Knights are only Astartes who are damn good at killing deamons but there are other things. 'Big E's last gift', 'founded by the tube-neck guy', '#wetotallydon'texist'. Now, to be fair, I'm sure that Death Watch also has some extreamly cool side to them (after all who in Warhammer doesn't). But I just don't find: 'The xeno killer ammunition 2000' and 'our big house full of bugs' that special. Now, I'd just like to emphasize that I don't want to shit on Death Watch. Their design is still pretty cool but I just don't like them. I could sh*t talk every WH40k faction and then praise them for twice as long. But there are just some that I like better then others.
In lore, the Grey Knights have the presence of a choir in the warp. If Daemons are nearby, they start to go insane.
I play both. I choose grey knights over deathwatch because it was the only combat patrol that I thought looked cool at the LGS.
If you’re a fan of Inquisitor Eisenhorn you can join me by fielding his Mini (with a squad of Inquisitorial Henchmen) shoulder-to-shoulder alongside Grey Knights! Given that the Inquisition and the Grey K’s Chapter were effectively formed simultaneously from a hand-picked pool of 12 people in the dying days of The Horus Heresy, it makes super cool thematic sense to pop those two factions side by side. (Plus Eisenhorn is one of the few Inquisitors who can actually serve a purpose in-game imo…the ability to completely deny an enemy unit from shooting is epic) Personally I would always go GK over Deathwatch but I understand your dilemma as both are awesome. Imagine chairing a pre-battle strategy meeting with both of ‘em though… Me: “We should capitalise on the terrain advantages and take the high ground, setting up a firebase and maximising our chance to flank from the East. Also, our Astropaths just received comms from a contingent of Aeldari already engaged with the Daemon threat planet-side. They are suggesting a temporary alliance against these overwhelming odds. It may be unconventional but I believe we should consider this offer. We are outnumbered ten thousand to one.” Grey Knight Commander: [Eyes closed, meditating and focusing his mind, gives an almost imperceptible nod] “I seek only the annihilation of the Daemon threat. All else is irrelevant and my Brothers have survived odds more dire even than these.” Deathwatch Commander: [Arrives to the meeting covered in blood, and slams a severed Farseer’s head on the table] - “MY SCOUTS HAVE ELIMINATED THE XENOS THREAT. SORRY I’M LATE.”
Best comment, I also have coteaz so he would most definitely fit the grey knights.
Coteaz would look awesome in a GK army! I love that model.
DW being mixed is the coolest factor considering otherwise these marines are heavily indoctrinated towards their primarch. For that reason i feel DW is undeniably an imperium faction with the best fighting capabilities
Oh easy. They're just SO much cooler. Has a deathwatch marine ever PERSONALLY defeated a demon primarch? Grey Knights Supreme Grandmaster Kaldor Draigo fought Demon Primarch Mortarion ONE ON ONE and found his "true name" (daemons weakness) and using his immense psychic powers combined with that was able to not just defeat and banish him back to the warp, but also CUT MORTARIONS HEART OUT OF HIS CHEST, CARVED THE NAME OF THE PREVIOUS GRANDMASTER WHO MORTARION HAD KILLED INTO THE HEART AND STUFFED IT BACK IN HIS CHEST BEFORE BANISHING HIM!!! That sums up how cool the grey knights are with a nice bow on top lol. Other characters like Grandmaster Voldus fought with Calgar amd Guilliman after his resurrection. Castellan Crowe has so much mental fortitude and toughness that he is the ONLY person in the entire imperium trusted with the demonic black blade of Antwyr (remember even Fulgrim fell to a demon blades corruption) and the blade HATES him for it lol. Crowe's model looks amazing too. Not enough for you? The legend of the silver knight states that an unnamed "silver knight" (clearly a grey knight from the descriptions of the text) sought out to defeat Slaanesh. He went BY HIMSELF into Slaanesh's palace and overcame every single layer of the palace and its seduction even making it to Slaaneshs court only falling once Slaanesh HIMSELF got up and attacked him! Not a single grey knight has ever fell to chaos otherwise. They are ALL made not from just a Primarchs geneseed/DNA but from the EMPEROR HIMSELFS OWN DNA as well! Thus they are all very powerful Psykers with heavy anti-warp protections. Their original first Grandmaster was implanted with a shard of the soul of FRICKING MAGNUS THE RED!! Just so much cooler. And they have all the same ties to the inquisition that the Deathwatch have. Plus they have quite a bit larger number of chapter specific models compared to Deathwatch.
Damn you, this is a good comment
It’s weird I was just having this conversation with a friend, and asked why Deathwatch even exists. I get that they are kinda like the Inquisitions way of pulling from the various SM chapters, but there is no way that they are as effective as the GKs and I’m not really sure why anyone would pick them over the GKs or any other SM faction.
They have a lot of customizability and use units made up of Space Marines from every chapter. They can be pretty cool to be honest.
More customization options than any other SM faction? Genuinely don’t know, haven’t really looked at how you make a Deathwatch table top army
Yes, FAR more
The GK get more models and rules support than the Deathwatch. Also I like the playstyle of the GK over the DW
Psykers.
Crowe
Look and lore and playstyle!
I like the drip. Funny enough, I play both and Deathwatch was my first completed army in 7th ed.
Because GKs are fuckin cool. Better lore imo, cooler aesthetic, imo, and uhhh oh yeah KALDOR FUCKIN DRAIGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Because I have Spehs Muhreenz (Blood Ravens!) and I have zero intention of buying more Spehs Muhreen models that fill a similar niche. GK lore wise and mechanic wise, are so different and the play styles are really to my liking
GK do not stink.
Wizard
Demon Hunting Warpy Physic Space Wizards
Because... Ahem. RIP AND TEAR UNTIL IT IS DONE! but Warhammer 40k and knights. I would love to see a comic or something of doom guy appearing and the grey knights see him, kneel and say "Our primarch has finally returned to us!" Doom guy sees their weapons and armor and just nods.
Incorruptible Space Marines, you're gonna say no to that??
I dislike the deathwatch. I think someone built this army when they looked at the spare space marine models they had lying around. There are only 5 total kits (6 if you include the combat patrol that has 0 unique models). I think the whole Xeno hatred thing can be justified in the lore for certain characters, but it just feels goofy to me. The imperium will work with Xenos and the need for a specialist unit seems over the top, but I guess the inquisition loves power. Now Grey Knights. Badass Space Marines that have the emperor's gene seed. Draigo is a bit of a Mary Sue in what he can do, but a lot of his lore could be explained if he was carrying Magnus' Noble shard like the first supreme grand master was. They are also in charge of the Terminus Decree, in Malcador's tomb on Titan. Only the Supreme Grand Master even knows it's there. The army itself is all Pyskers, and while the movement tricks are nice on the tabletop, I am hoping for a detachment to make them feel like the psykers there were in 9th edition once more. I think my favorite character of theirs is Hyperion, the Blade Breaker. Dude blew out half his brain to destroy Angron's sword on Armageddon. If you really are dead set on going Deathwatch or Grey Knights, wait until the release of Agents of the Imperium codex to see what is in it. Rumor is one or both of Grey Knights/Deathwatch are going to be a part of that and given the support in the rules
One of us has to be the first to fall to chaos ;)
In Clone Wars terms: Grey Knights are Jedi. Deathwatch are ARC troopers.
And the ARC are far cooler than any Jedi
Yeah…Arc Troopers are kinda my favorite.
*Laughs in Fenrysian*
I like the armor and gear better and killing deamons is more appealing.
I like the terminator amour and psykers. I don’t like the kill all xenos attitude the deathwatch have I think it’s way more interesting when the grey knights use daemons for their own missions
I remember the Daemonhunters codex coming out in 3rd and it really captured my imagination then, and they're still my favourite! I've looked at Deathwatch, they're a cool concept but never really captured my imagination.
I think they're both the best, so I run both!
Secret super powerful incorruptible psychers zealot deamon hunters is all I needed to hear. Reading the novels only confirmed my love for them, and I even love the models (specially Crowe, but I like even the baby carriers). Also chaos and daemons seem a more interesting/pernitious enemy to me than hordes of xenos, and that made the GKs more interesting to me than the DW.
Aesthetic
I like how GK has one specific enemy, whereas the deathwatch is ALL xenos. Being a hyper specific, hyper specialist branch appeals to me more.
I like to win
I just think they look cooler I guess. Paired with the whole psyker thing + emperor geneseed. Lorewise they’re pretty cool (not saying the deathwatch aren’t by any means)
Have you read “The Emporers Gift”? Very good GK novel and there is an AWESOME connection to eisenhorn i didnt realize until after reading the Ravenor series
We use death watch for our bank accounts we don't need it for our tables
Who said I liked either lol, grey knights are genocidal maniacs and Death watch are boring, I think I'll stick to my xenophobic war criminal black templars lol 🤣☠️
I dont
They literally have the Emperor’s Gene-seed and literally give custodes pause And if i remember a female inquisitor thought such a waste that she could not experience their thunder hammers after see one get out of the shower.
Because they are Grey Knights. 💪
Vote for the errant knights, because space wizards are lame, but outcast covert ops are cool
I love the aesthetic of the deathwatch but I prefer the grey knights due to them feeling like more of a fleshed out faction as opposed to a sub-faction.
They look cooler. That's mainly it.
Because they look special. Death Watch are just basic bitch Space Marines with a fancy shoulder pad… I modded my Death Watch to look really different but even with 3D printed flood lights (void marines) they don’t look as good as my Grey Knights and even my Sisters of Battle…