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Who is the most similar player to RVP or Rudd Van Nistle Roy out there?
It seems like most strikers are Aubayang types these days. Paccey and miss alot of easy chances.
There’s like a dozen of these Squawka posts showing Odegaard at the top of all these various passing metrics, and all it has done has solidified how much I want to sign Bruno Guimaraes because he is on those lists almost every time. Imagine if we went for him that January…
what's crazy to me is odegaard is top of all these stats in all of europe and people want to play him in another position. will the overall gains from the swap really be greater that what he's producing now? while giving unfavorable angles to him
I'm not sure how willing you are to engage here (I have had bad experiences on this topic) but the big caveat in those Odegaard stats is that they are ALSO a product of him simply being the most involved player in our attack - the end product is not commensurate with his involvement. One goal then of moving Odegaard is that he can also be our conductor whilst still having better angles to be more direct; the other is that a more dynamic partner for Saka will explode the output on the right. You are right btw about the unfavorable angles in possession.
If you are interested:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/17ysugv/the_case_for_moving_odegaard_to_left_central/
thanks, this was a great read. might be a long response, it was really fun to think through it (yeah it got really long)
agree with the problem that odegaard doesn't have the range to switch play well - but him going to the left doesn't solve that. instead it just adds a hole on the right. the pros and cons don't weigh up imo - for the benefit of better switches of play, better crosses we lose the triangle on the right, one that's already producing a great attack. imo instead of switching him out another link player like odegaard there solves the problem more effectively
look at odegaard's production on the right, there's been a bunch of stats posted last few weeks. and if you just watch you can see his effectiveness. it's fine if he's not the best at switches, it's even fine that he's not the best crosser - not all players are the best at everything- cause he's doing so much more good that stems from him being on his favorable right side
i see the value in fabio playing on the right - he should too there's more than enough minutes. and there's pros and cons to odegaard vs fabio in that spot - but still not enough of a reason to push odegaard to the left imo. specially with reports of how vieira is training - clearly not good enough to do it at this point
same thing with smith rowe. there's value, he can overlap, vieira can too to a lesser degree. that frees up saka to move inside too. it'll work and it can be great - but that's not enough of a reason to change imo. every other aspect of the game till we reach a point where an overlap or a cross is possible, clearly esr and vieira aren't up to the level of odegaard. if we're being honest, far from it. the minutes they've played don't lie. a solution in my mind would be to get odegaard to overlap (which he has been doing slightly more often?) rather than remove a key cog for this one advantage. cause there isn't an issue of scoring goals - we scored 91. can't forget that - what we have is working really well. it's always a question of the gains - i'm not convinced it's a net positive especially if you factor in everything till the final third + pressing
i like the runner passer dynamic you're talking about, where saka is the passer not the runner. (thought to be a top goal scoring winger you just have to be a runner too - robben, salah, ronaldo, even younger messi. the opposite, when you aren't down to run as much you move in the middle and lose goal threat - neymar, older di maria, older ronaldo had to move to cf)
odegaard naturally does take up space that saka would like. it's inconvenient, but i haven't seen it be a massive problem in all honesty. in theory it sounds bad, but on the pitch has it really been all that bad? imo it's over exaggerated. but with the right player maybe there's scope for even more. not convinced we have that player yet
the dynamics in theory remind me of barcelona. messi on the right wing, has the gravity of messi and space to cut inside and play. alves overlapping + xavi as an option but not really taking up the space messi wants. on the left, a runner on the wing with support from iniesta to do what iniesta does
nice shout on havertz ending up playing as a cf consistently, i didn't think so at all at the time
the cons you mentioned for odegaard being on the left are too pronounced imo, i think he's not really going to improve his angle bias to a serious degree. there's not a huge amount you can do when you're so one footed at this point. you'd rather just get even better with your strong foot than waste time doing trying to learn something so unnatural to you. xhaka a great example of this - his bias to his left and the angles that come with it simply exist. silva, bernardo, even messi all examples of this. the solution is not to make them work on it, but to play them where they thrive. that's the main point against moving him to the left imo. the angle bias will simply exist, he'll be half the player he is now
replying cause it wasn't posting fully
--
the transitional, vertical through balls are great, but how often does that happen? how often will he have a chance to do that? and why not let him roam there to do it like he does now. for those such few moments, you nerf the advantages in his own game too hard
you wrote the angle bias + receiving on the left stuff perfectly. it's too big a con imo. imagine odegaard receiving in the left half space. too risky to turn toward the centre on his right, he's likely going to lose it + what does he even do after, the next action is on his right. so it's a pass to martinelli - if he can't beat his man it goes back to odegaard. then? back to martinelli or to zinchenko, who might pass it back to odegaard. then? he can't cut inside on his right so what's he going to do? back to martinelli. a new triangle of sadness
his shots and shooting positions will get way worse too imo. he'll have less space to run into if he's starting from the left. his momentum will be coming in for a right footed shot, or he can angle himself to his left for a first time shot, or take a backward touch with and to his left - not ideal. and cut backs from the right will be on his right foot, which he's not even going to use. so his goal threat becomes 0 basically. even the drilled shots exist only because he's running in from the right - the amount will drop to almost nothing if he's moving from the left towards the centre, and even then they'd favor a right footer
end of the day the only big problem is odegaard taking spaces saka likes - pushing him deeper solves everything and it's already happening. white can overlap, saka can cut in, odegaard can dictate and still crash the box. need a really, really good reason to change that
they say in chess always take toward the centre. think the same applies to winger and midfielder dynamics. we've moved from wingers running down the touchline to cutting inside - towards the centre. it just opens up their field of view, so much more area to affect the game. same thing with odegaard, you stunt him too much by giving him limited space and limited options
thanks for sharing your piece, would love to read more, love the detail and the thought you put into it
I want to start by saying that I agree with your primary objection, which is that ESR and Vieira are simply not good enough for us to move Odegaard to LCM. That to me has always seemed this idea's main weakness, and one of my main criticisms of some of these football analysts is that they sometimes become so enamored of player profiles or specific tactical attributes that more pragmatic/practical concerns such as player quality or injury history fall to the wayside.
Moving on to the discussion of Odegaard's long term future at RCM, with Saka as the winger, and regardless of who the alternative RCM might be. The first thing I have to say about the trio (including White) is that despite the insistence by many that they are already performing well and have great chemistry, hence no need to change anything, they are only doing so because each is a great player in his own right. A more conventional/attacking RB overlapping there would obviously be better for our attack than White, despite how well White has done.
The first thing about Odegaard is that he is not an elite chance creator, and most of those stats posted have more to do with him being the most involved player in our attack. When you delve deep down into them to gauge true creativity in stats like big chances created, or expected assisted goals, he is weak relative to how dominant our attack have been and his influence. (You may want to argue that it's logical his creativity is down due to him being more involved in our buildup and being the controller in midfield; amazingly though, his creativity this season is far better than last season when we had Partey, Zinchenko, and to a lesser extent Xhaka, in charge of those duties.) The point here is that any jump in Odegaard's creativity has come from his being unleashed from the Saka-Ode-White triangle to play a deeper role while also having the freedom to float around.
> you wrote the angle bias + receiving on the left stuff perfectly. it's too big a con imo. imagine odegaard receiving in the left half space. too risky to turn toward the centre on his right, he's likely going to lose it **+ what does he even do after, the next action is on his right. so it's a pass to martinelli - if he can't beat his man it goes back to odegaard. then? back to martinelli or to zinchenko, who might pass it back to odegaard. then? he can't cut inside on his right so what's he going to do? back to martinelli. a new triangle of sadness**
> **his shots and shooting positions will get way worse too imo. he'll have less space to run into if he's starting from the left. his momentum will be coming in for a right footed shot, or he can angle himself to his left for a first time shot, or take a backward touch with and to his left - not ideal.** and cut backs from the right will be on his right foot, which he's not even going to use. so his goal threat becomes 0 basically. even the drilled shots exist only because he's running in from the right - the amount will drop to almost nothing if he's moving from the left towards the centre, and even then they'd favor a right footer
Neither should be an issue here as they both are a function of his current position i.e. Odegaard needs to cut inside on his left because he is predominantly a final 3rd player. One of the main aims of playing him on the left is so that his main role becomes a deeper one, where he already has access to most of the pitch ahead of him. We have seen many midfield controllers play on the side of their stronger foot, and be just as effective. His shooting will also be generally better. I don't know if you've noticed but unlike Saka, Odegaard is not really good at cutting inside and taking those curled shots to the far post. The combination of power and precision required means he usually skies it or hits it straight at the keeper. He won't need that if taking shots from the left half space as what will be required of him is to be more or less directly facing the goal rather than an at an angle, making those drilled shots easier. (He only gets the drilled shots from the right because he is running onto them and receiving from cutbacks, and taking them in central areas first time. From the left half space, he can execute those shots even while in possession.) Both Xhaka and Partey were quite adept at shooting from the half spaces of their stronger foot last season while directly facing the goal. KDB has also been milking those right half space shots for a while now.
On the whole, I've been moved closer to your position. Whether at LCM or RCM, Odegaard, like all elite footballers, will have to keep improving. And as there is simply no suitable alternative at the moment for the RCM position, moving Odegaard to the left is still a long term dream. One of the advantages of having a right footer like ESR to underlap Saka is for those first time cutbacks which Odegaard usually takes an extra touch or two to shift to his left - against Everton, for Tomiyasu's equalizer, he hit the ball first time to the edge of the box with his right foot. At the beginning of the season, you would have been crucified here for suggesting that Odegaard play deeper; look how incredible that turned out, and even after Partey returned, Odegaard was still dropping deep with Rice a bit higher. I am thankful that Mikel and the players are constantly upping their game, and I know that whatever Mikel decides, it has to be for the best.
even deeper, he's still facing the problem of angles. the ball will be on his left, to the left side. so he's limited in where he can pass. the natural pass will be out to the wing, which isn't ideal. it can work though, we saw xhaka do it to a good degree. i'm yet to be convinced on *why* though. for example if we sign bruno g or rice has to play as an 8. you'd much rather have them on the left side - they can pass through the middle with much more frequency. at the core that's what we want
imo our game is to take a lot of good shots - most of odegaards goal's have been cut backs or coming in from the right, when he has a good amount of space. not sure if he'll get a regular amount of shots like that through the left. when he's on the left, he just has the option of a hard, laces shot low and to the right corner. where only a great shot goes in. coming from the right, he can hit it to either corner and it allows his scope to take touches (even if he's not great at the curled shot, which he def isn't, that option exists in the mind of the keeper. i read a quote recently saying football is a game of deception, which feels apt). it's a better fit for a left footer, the same reason wingers play on the opposite sides - they have more options and a bigger target
even when odegaard and esr play together esr plays on the left. if we were a more direct team we'd probably switch them out - but we want to keep the ball and pass it through. for that, the best passers have to be in these positions
agreed, odegaard is not an assist/ final ball/ killer in the final third type player. but that doesn't mean he's not creative. he leads europe in thru balls, in chances created too i think. or he's up there. he's more of a facilitator. facilitator of a great attack, which again comes from being on the right imo
haha i probably would have said ur crazy to the idea of odegaard playing deeper long term tbf. but now it looks like it's the way forward, at least for the current squad. imo my ideal situation for odegaard is to completely float around, specially if we do get a bruno g type player/ rice for the left. basically give him free reign to go as he pleases across the entire vertical right. he knows the system so well he'll float within where he should be
nice ideas man, enjoyed this. do you have an ideal midfielder we could sign this window?
I will respond more fully later on but I just want to note that I did not write the piece. The author HBM_afc is also on twitter, and if you click their profile on the article, you can see that they have also written on Havertz as a striker and on inverted fullbacks.
Once again though, I really appreciate your response, and it has given me plenty to think about.
Spurs fans love to talk about Partey and how horrible Arsenal is for continuining to employ him while they got a guy that advocates the genocide of palestians.
That shit backup winger that used to play for fulham
Bullshit. What a fantastically moronic take.
Firstly, to distill what clubs are down to such a binary "if you support X = BAD" is just so foolish.
Secondly, what Israel are doing is justified. Starting a war then losing it doesn't make you a victim.
Thirdly and lastly - nothing concrete has ever been said for Partey and knowing Mikel, I refuse to believe he'd have someone heinous around. I just cannot imagine it. Why bring him up? If you just want to shit on Spurs, then just do that.
Euros and Copa gonna slow down the transfer window, so gonna keep it calma for now. Either we get a signing or two done before the competition starts or it becomes a silly season just a month and a half left for the season begin.
Sesko plays like he's angry and looks exciting, but a lot of those goals and highlight worthy moments seem to come positions that I'm not sure he'd be able to replicate often in our system. Some of them are pure "Bundesliga tax" moments that I just don't rate at all.
More specifically, the way many teams set up against us. He reminds me of Watkins in the way he's a straight line demon that cuts in and shoots.
We don't really score *that* many goals like Kai's first against Chelsea at home. But it would be nice to get someone in the front line that can actually carry and run straight at the defense when we win the ball up high
I think it will. GJ ain't the guy for this. Havertz has other responsibilities but he's better in these situations. Sesko though? That guy plays like he's got one thing in mind, and it's to barrel into the box. Does look exciting
Look at the highlights reel of most available strikers and you'll see they get way more space than anyone gets for us, it's just something we have to accept.
As long as he's not too expensive he's young enough that hopefully he can be coached to deal with the low block we tend to face, or the mid block that seems to be a killer and if he doesn't then we can probabl get most our money back sending him to somewhere where that's not such an issue.
Can we just appreciate how last year we were worried Saliba would have chronic back issues then he goes on to play every single minute in the PL this season. He’s the love child of a Rolls Royce and a Toyota.
Could we go after Lautaro?
I’m not one to jump at every player that becomes available- Lautaro is on the short list of top forwards in Europe and from what I’ve read, he’s very willing to press.
Kadioglu can play as a winger / LB / RB and can dribble well (something we lack). Hato because Kiwior and/or Zina might be leaving and Arteta rates him.
Sorry I am not buying this Sesko hype. He has not done enough to warrant this level of talk in this sub. He has potential and could go on to be a great signing but he has hardly done anything at a high level yet.
At the price allegedly being quoted he's more than worth a go and since he won't be first choice it won't kill us if he doesn't make it.
This isn't a Gyokeres situation where half our budget could go on someone you;d have to imagine wouldn't turn up for anything less than starting.
I still think he's good but comments here like "can you imagine someone like Sesko signing for us three years ago?!" are a bit untethered from reality imo... he's a good prospect not the second coming of R9.
Liverpool fans did the same with Darwin, now they all hate him so much they are turning to creationism.
> he's a good prospect not the second coming of R9
The issue is that we wouldn't get prospects *or* world class players unless they were at our buddies Real Madrid.
Darwin was £85m, he cost more than Mane and Salah put together, it's fair that they had high hopes for him!
He’s 21, so I think we can cut him a *bit* of a break he doesn’t hit the ground running immediately, but he does have some pressure on him for the price tag.
I'd seen £45m, which in current striker terms is unfortunately (for the accountants) pretty low so should be ok.
If it's higher then yeah, he's going to have the Havertz/Ramsdale/White out crowd on his back.
There's always people who get carried away but Sesko is very clearly a floor raiser who could become a ceiling raiser. I think most people know that, otherwise the price would be mindblowing to them.
Martinelli, Trossard, Havertz, Sesko, Saka and Jesus is a fun group of forwards. Do we think that’ll be it or will we sign another to replace Reiss in the event he leaves?
Luckily for us Chelsea and United don’t have their ducks in line to sort out a deal before the Euros as he wants.
He’s a good player right now but his ceiling is very high. It’s a nice addition for sure.
It's really making me confused if we're going to need a DM or LCM this summer window. Looking at the second half of the season, the way we had Rice as an 8 with Partey/Jorginho at 6, really elevated our team. So im thinking a 6 is the right one.
The "Rice 6 or 8" debate is really an issue of whether we can get a volume passer in midfield to partner him with. It's why Jorginho and Partey made him look so much more effective for us.
Rice isn't that kind of profile, and I think our particular style of play would make him less effective if all he does is sit back. We just look so much more fluid when he's further ahead of the play. Not to mention the counterpressing goes up a notch.
I'm really hyped by Timber. He's a proper athlete, too. Love players who can get about the pitch, won't shirk from duels, but are also technically sound.
We'd need another highly technical midfield athlete. And we'd lose the final-ball playing ability of Ode which is, as you've seen with all the posts we've been making, heads and shoulders above everyone else right now.
Volume passers are what they call water carriers. They don't get a lot of assists, but they set the tempo and might get a lot of the pre-assists with a line breaking pass that forces the defense to have to change shape.
Behold…Bruno G.
He went from a CM during 22/23 to a more deeper defensive or DM role in 23/24 season. This just means he can be deployed in both the 8 and 6 roles depending on any issues with Rice/Jorginho as the 6.
https://preview.redd.it/pgowrz9win3d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccae3a1b1ed9f38e3d701854dab8dbac24b902a6
Rice isn't the ideal 8. We looked good because he's good, but he's not a final third player and our LHS suffered partly because he has no capacity to allow our left side to drift in in the same way that Xhaka did.
Let Rice be the 6 he is and let's get an 8.
Depends on what your rank more. OOP defensive solidity or better attacking fluidity.
Rice roaming role as an 8 plus where he is able to engage in the press OOP is really really key for our stability and eliminating threat. Personally I like that more
We probably looked better with Rice as an 8 and Jorgi/Partey at 6 because we didn’t have an actual 8 for Rice to play with as a 6.
Havertz in midfield just doesn’t work, hope Mikel doesn’t try it again. And the Sesko links tell me that he won’t, so it’ll probably be an 8 we’re after.
Imagine us being in for a guy like Sesko 4-5 years ago. He wouldn’t even give us a look, and other fans would laugh at us for even suggesting he was a possibility.
Arteta brought us back from the dead.
We signed Pepe 5 years ago. It didn't work out and he never lived up to the expectations but he was a much bigger signing, at the time, than Sesko would be.
The following year we signed Partey, again hasn't exactly worked as we hoped, but that was a massive signing. Just [look at the reaction](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/hr50h1/exclusive_thomas_partey_set_to_snub_arsenal_by/) when other fans thought he turned us down in 2020.
You're massively underestimating how big this club is and how many players want to play for Arsenal even in our down years.
He’s very highly regarded amongst the elite clubs. Chelsea and United have been looking at him for 3-4 year, and Football manager, ran by extremely highly regarded scouts, have him rated very highly.
I just don’t think he would’ve given us a real chance 3-4 years ago. Maybe he wouldn’t laugh us off, but he wouldn’t choose us.
Also, we just signed Rice last year over City and Bayern. Absolutely no chance he would’ve came here pre Arteta.
Personally, I think the team has moved past him. His ability to play the inverted role added a whole new dimension when he first came in, but now teams have worked him out and his serious lack of defensive ability is often targeted by opposition. In addition to that, there's been no word of extending his contract (iirc he has only 2 years remaining) and he's probably 3rd or 4th choice LB at this point, it makes sense to move him on this window.
He has to go.
It’s not even that I think he’s a horrible player or anything, but his fingerprints were all over our downfalls each of the last two seasons.
We have to get that stink off the club.
Version as in ridiculously young player who's ready to play for the first team, could have also said Yamal or Cubarsi. Never made any direct comparisons on play style, but not unlike you to immediately argue a point.
What is the point if he can still run in elections and can still be President?
Also, US Presidents have set up torture sites, staged coups, ordered human experiments, invaded entire countries, ethnically cleansed indegenous peoples, owned slaves, enabled genocides. That the first Presidential conviction ever is over hush money to cover a sex scandal is... very telling.
Gives them the opportunity to start every sentence with 'convicted felon Donald Trump' which they think will influence the electorate.
I doubt it makes much difference, it's the tip of the iceberg with what Presidents have done as you say. It's not going to change anybody already voting for him at least.
Guys hilarious, he twerks for every player that’s linked to us reliable or not. Could be an 11 year old nobody heard of and he’ll tweet “he’s a ✨special ✨ talent”
[I have so much faith in this guy. ](https://x.com/rwtactico2/status/1796204795629347016?t=Eap5SAls08gDHmOVH0XMHg&s=19) This is why we don't need no Gray
No ones paying 100 mill for him and it seems like theyll need to sell. Imo city and arsenal will make the same offer and leave it upto bruno g to pick.
Sesko seems like a no brainer. Pretty cheap considering costs in today’s market. Proven goal scorer although granted not in the Prem (Different animal). But I think more importantly he shows raw talent that arteta can mold to fit our style.
That said, any other talents you want us to be linked with that make sense?
Sesko looks like a projekt rather then profilic striker. He is a risk. In january everyone and their mama was saying We need a better striker, a Toney or Osimhen like player.
Against Fulham, west ham, Aston villa, porto and bayern We struggled. I am not sure Sesko is the type of player that would make a difference. We are betting on Arteta improving him and fixing his finishing issues.
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Miguel Gutierrez as our LB option is the move can play the inverted LB role plus his release clause is 35 million only issue if he wants to go back to Real Madrid
I’ve said it before. Arteta’s time in England shines through with these links to giants. He wants a team of Orcs, but he wants them with tech.
I’m all in.
A welcome change from the early Emirates era of Arsenal signing 5 foot tall technicians who would get their ankles crunched by Pulis's and Allardyce's teams.
It kind of makes sense. There may be games where it’s very hard to break down a defense or hard to create chances, but there will always be set piece opportunities. Having just about a whole team of fairly tall players can make a nice difference over the course of a season in terms of attacking and defending set pieces
Oft repeated on AVPod but arteta Respects all aspects of the game equally. The best set piece, defensive and attacking team in the league. Seems like as long as I've been alive we haven't been able to say that about even some of the best arse teams.
Best workrate, tallest and the most guys who would shag your wife if you left her alone with them. Alright we can't measure those but think it can be argued.
https://preview.redd.it/xl4mafpwbm3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6dc36d50b07bf2abf302207b4cc289593dafa95
Edit: OC just in case you were wondering 💪
Not sure that's the right video, surely?
First pass isnt really a pass and goes only to Saka's left and then it goes into space and Saka takes it on his left...
I'm sure it's a usable phrase but not applicable in thar video.
Thank you for showing me how stupid some people are.
Shit like that ruins the phrase. Absolute idiot. If he tries to stick that on sakas left foot the defender gets back into the play and either fouls saka or tackles ball.
*If* he's for sale, it's possible that he's done nothing wrong, just not quite done enough and specifically enough to keep him ahead of other options on the market.
That wouldn't necessarily be wholly his fault, either, unless our development process for him has been note perfect, and he just hasn't kept up.
What's interesting to me is who isn't on Gary Jacob's list, and the fact that he has us more focussed on younger targets, e.g. Sesko.
It seems like our reporters are aligned on the notion that there's going to be a fair bit of churn in the younger, less-used members of the squad-- which, as you point out, won't likely cost us much over all. We might lose a little on the ones we sell, but it won't be too bad. We've already seen this to a degree with Sambi and Nuno.
Personally, I think Kiwior has done enough to at least warrant a longer look, but maybe he hasn't been as consistent in training as we'd hoped.
Selling a player doesn't mean they did anything wrong or are bad. There was noise in the winter that he wanted to play more, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was interest.
Too many changes in one summer considering we still have a midfielder, striker, possibly winger + Raya and possibly back up keeper on the agenda.
We won't sign more than one defender this window.
I feel like we ideally wanna move on from both, but Zinchenko is a much easier sale so the expectations are that he'll go.
Jesus on the other hand needs surgery and his wages will always be a stumbling block, so we probably don't think it's realistic. But if we somehow get reasonable offers, I doubt we'll refuse it.
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Who is the most similar player to RVP or Rudd Van Nistle Roy out there? It seems like most strikers are Aubayang types these days. Paccey and miss alot of easy chances.
random thought but yall remember that one woman who always screams at the back of our post in the highbury era when we about to concede?
There’s like a dozen of these Squawka posts showing Odegaard at the top of all these various passing metrics, and all it has done has solidified how much I want to sign Bruno Guimaraes because he is on those lists almost every time. Imagine if we went for him that January…
what's crazy to me is odegaard is top of all these stats in all of europe and people want to play him in another position. will the overall gains from the swap really be greater that what he's producing now? while giving unfavorable angles to him
I'm not sure how willing you are to engage here (I have had bad experiences on this topic) but the big caveat in those Odegaard stats is that they are ALSO a product of him simply being the most involved player in our attack - the end product is not commensurate with his involvement. One goal then of moving Odegaard is that he can also be our conductor whilst still having better angles to be more direct; the other is that a more dynamic partner for Saka will explode the output on the right. You are right btw about the unfavorable angles in possession. If you are interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/17ysugv/the_case_for_moving_odegaard_to_left_central/
thanks, this was a great read. might be a long response, it was really fun to think through it (yeah it got really long) agree with the problem that odegaard doesn't have the range to switch play well - but him going to the left doesn't solve that. instead it just adds a hole on the right. the pros and cons don't weigh up imo - for the benefit of better switches of play, better crosses we lose the triangle on the right, one that's already producing a great attack. imo instead of switching him out another link player like odegaard there solves the problem more effectively look at odegaard's production on the right, there's been a bunch of stats posted last few weeks. and if you just watch you can see his effectiveness. it's fine if he's not the best at switches, it's even fine that he's not the best crosser - not all players are the best at everything- cause he's doing so much more good that stems from him being on his favorable right side i see the value in fabio playing on the right - he should too there's more than enough minutes. and there's pros and cons to odegaard vs fabio in that spot - but still not enough of a reason to push odegaard to the left imo. specially with reports of how vieira is training - clearly not good enough to do it at this point same thing with smith rowe. there's value, he can overlap, vieira can too to a lesser degree. that frees up saka to move inside too. it'll work and it can be great - but that's not enough of a reason to change imo. every other aspect of the game till we reach a point where an overlap or a cross is possible, clearly esr and vieira aren't up to the level of odegaard. if we're being honest, far from it. the minutes they've played don't lie. a solution in my mind would be to get odegaard to overlap (which he has been doing slightly more often?) rather than remove a key cog for this one advantage. cause there isn't an issue of scoring goals - we scored 91. can't forget that - what we have is working really well. it's always a question of the gains - i'm not convinced it's a net positive especially if you factor in everything till the final third + pressing i like the runner passer dynamic you're talking about, where saka is the passer not the runner. (thought to be a top goal scoring winger you just have to be a runner too - robben, salah, ronaldo, even younger messi. the opposite, when you aren't down to run as much you move in the middle and lose goal threat - neymar, older di maria, older ronaldo had to move to cf) odegaard naturally does take up space that saka would like. it's inconvenient, but i haven't seen it be a massive problem in all honesty. in theory it sounds bad, but on the pitch has it really been all that bad? imo it's over exaggerated. but with the right player maybe there's scope for even more. not convinced we have that player yet the dynamics in theory remind me of barcelona. messi on the right wing, has the gravity of messi and space to cut inside and play. alves overlapping + xavi as an option but not really taking up the space messi wants. on the left, a runner on the wing with support from iniesta to do what iniesta does nice shout on havertz ending up playing as a cf consistently, i didn't think so at all at the time the cons you mentioned for odegaard being on the left are too pronounced imo, i think he's not really going to improve his angle bias to a serious degree. there's not a huge amount you can do when you're so one footed at this point. you'd rather just get even better with your strong foot than waste time doing trying to learn something so unnatural to you. xhaka a great example of this - his bias to his left and the angles that come with it simply exist. silva, bernardo, even messi all examples of this. the solution is not to make them work on it, but to play them where they thrive. that's the main point against moving him to the left imo. the angle bias will simply exist, he'll be half the player he is now
replying cause it wasn't posting fully -- the transitional, vertical through balls are great, but how often does that happen? how often will he have a chance to do that? and why not let him roam there to do it like he does now. for those such few moments, you nerf the advantages in his own game too hard you wrote the angle bias + receiving on the left stuff perfectly. it's too big a con imo. imagine odegaard receiving in the left half space. too risky to turn toward the centre on his right, he's likely going to lose it + what does he even do after, the next action is on his right. so it's a pass to martinelli - if he can't beat his man it goes back to odegaard. then? back to martinelli or to zinchenko, who might pass it back to odegaard. then? he can't cut inside on his right so what's he going to do? back to martinelli. a new triangle of sadness his shots and shooting positions will get way worse too imo. he'll have less space to run into if he's starting from the left. his momentum will be coming in for a right footed shot, or he can angle himself to his left for a first time shot, or take a backward touch with and to his left - not ideal. and cut backs from the right will be on his right foot, which he's not even going to use. so his goal threat becomes 0 basically. even the drilled shots exist only because he's running in from the right - the amount will drop to almost nothing if he's moving from the left towards the centre, and even then they'd favor a right footer end of the day the only big problem is odegaard taking spaces saka likes - pushing him deeper solves everything and it's already happening. white can overlap, saka can cut in, odegaard can dictate and still crash the box. need a really, really good reason to change that they say in chess always take toward the centre. think the same applies to winger and midfielder dynamics. we've moved from wingers running down the touchline to cutting inside - towards the centre. it just opens up their field of view, so much more area to affect the game. same thing with odegaard, you stunt him too much by giving him limited space and limited options thanks for sharing your piece, would love to read more, love the detail and the thought you put into it
I want to start by saying that I agree with your primary objection, which is that ESR and Vieira are simply not good enough for us to move Odegaard to LCM. That to me has always seemed this idea's main weakness, and one of my main criticisms of some of these football analysts is that they sometimes become so enamored of player profiles or specific tactical attributes that more pragmatic/practical concerns such as player quality or injury history fall to the wayside. Moving on to the discussion of Odegaard's long term future at RCM, with Saka as the winger, and regardless of who the alternative RCM might be. The first thing I have to say about the trio (including White) is that despite the insistence by many that they are already performing well and have great chemistry, hence no need to change anything, they are only doing so because each is a great player in his own right. A more conventional/attacking RB overlapping there would obviously be better for our attack than White, despite how well White has done. The first thing about Odegaard is that he is not an elite chance creator, and most of those stats posted have more to do with him being the most involved player in our attack. When you delve deep down into them to gauge true creativity in stats like big chances created, or expected assisted goals, he is weak relative to how dominant our attack have been and his influence. (You may want to argue that it's logical his creativity is down due to him being more involved in our buildup and being the controller in midfield; amazingly though, his creativity this season is far better than last season when we had Partey, Zinchenko, and to a lesser extent Xhaka, in charge of those duties.) The point here is that any jump in Odegaard's creativity has come from his being unleashed from the Saka-Ode-White triangle to play a deeper role while also having the freedom to float around. > you wrote the angle bias + receiving on the left stuff perfectly. it's too big a con imo. imagine odegaard receiving in the left half space. too risky to turn toward the centre on his right, he's likely going to lose it **+ what does he even do after, the next action is on his right. so it's a pass to martinelli - if he can't beat his man it goes back to odegaard. then? back to martinelli or to zinchenko, who might pass it back to odegaard. then? he can't cut inside on his right so what's he going to do? back to martinelli. a new triangle of sadness** > **his shots and shooting positions will get way worse too imo. he'll have less space to run into if he's starting from the left. his momentum will be coming in for a right footed shot, or he can angle himself to his left for a first time shot, or take a backward touch with and to his left - not ideal.** and cut backs from the right will be on his right foot, which he's not even going to use. so his goal threat becomes 0 basically. even the drilled shots exist only because he's running in from the right - the amount will drop to almost nothing if he's moving from the left towards the centre, and even then they'd favor a right footer Neither should be an issue here as they both are a function of his current position i.e. Odegaard needs to cut inside on his left because he is predominantly a final 3rd player. One of the main aims of playing him on the left is so that his main role becomes a deeper one, where he already has access to most of the pitch ahead of him. We have seen many midfield controllers play on the side of their stronger foot, and be just as effective. His shooting will also be generally better. I don't know if you've noticed but unlike Saka, Odegaard is not really good at cutting inside and taking those curled shots to the far post. The combination of power and precision required means he usually skies it or hits it straight at the keeper. He won't need that if taking shots from the left half space as what will be required of him is to be more or less directly facing the goal rather than an at an angle, making those drilled shots easier. (He only gets the drilled shots from the right because he is running onto them and receiving from cutbacks, and taking them in central areas first time. From the left half space, he can execute those shots even while in possession.) Both Xhaka and Partey were quite adept at shooting from the half spaces of their stronger foot last season while directly facing the goal. KDB has also been milking those right half space shots for a while now. On the whole, I've been moved closer to your position. Whether at LCM or RCM, Odegaard, like all elite footballers, will have to keep improving. And as there is simply no suitable alternative at the moment for the RCM position, moving Odegaard to the left is still a long term dream. One of the advantages of having a right footer like ESR to underlap Saka is for those first time cutbacks which Odegaard usually takes an extra touch or two to shift to his left - against Everton, for Tomiyasu's equalizer, he hit the ball first time to the edge of the box with his right foot. At the beginning of the season, you would have been crucified here for suggesting that Odegaard play deeper; look how incredible that turned out, and even after Partey returned, Odegaard was still dropping deep with Rice a bit higher. I am thankful that Mikel and the players are constantly upping their game, and I know that whatever Mikel decides, it has to be for the best.
even deeper, he's still facing the problem of angles. the ball will be on his left, to the left side. so he's limited in where he can pass. the natural pass will be out to the wing, which isn't ideal. it can work though, we saw xhaka do it to a good degree. i'm yet to be convinced on *why* though. for example if we sign bruno g or rice has to play as an 8. you'd much rather have them on the left side - they can pass through the middle with much more frequency. at the core that's what we want imo our game is to take a lot of good shots - most of odegaards goal's have been cut backs or coming in from the right, when he has a good amount of space. not sure if he'll get a regular amount of shots like that through the left. when he's on the left, he just has the option of a hard, laces shot low and to the right corner. where only a great shot goes in. coming from the right, he can hit it to either corner and it allows his scope to take touches (even if he's not great at the curled shot, which he def isn't, that option exists in the mind of the keeper. i read a quote recently saying football is a game of deception, which feels apt). it's a better fit for a left footer, the same reason wingers play on the opposite sides - they have more options and a bigger target even when odegaard and esr play together esr plays on the left. if we were a more direct team we'd probably switch them out - but we want to keep the ball and pass it through. for that, the best passers have to be in these positions agreed, odegaard is not an assist/ final ball/ killer in the final third type player. but that doesn't mean he's not creative. he leads europe in thru balls, in chances created too i think. or he's up there. he's more of a facilitator. facilitator of a great attack, which again comes from being on the right imo haha i probably would have said ur crazy to the idea of odegaard playing deeper long term tbf. but now it looks like it's the way forward, at least for the current squad. imo my ideal situation for odegaard is to completely float around, specially if we do get a bruno g type player/ rice for the left. basically give him free reign to go as he pleases across the entire vertical right. he knows the system so well he'll float within where he should be nice ideas man, enjoyed this. do you have an ideal midfielder we could sign this window?
I will respond more fully later on but I just want to note that I did not write the piece. The author HBM_afc is also on twitter, and if you click their profile on the article, you can see that they have also written on Havertz as a striker and on inverted fullbacks. Once again though, I really appreciate your response, and it has given me plenty to think about.
ah okay! cool
Bit concerned about how much of a cunt he is but what a baller
If Edu & Arteta think he’s the guy I’ll back them
Yep. They’ve earned that trust
Spurs fans love to talk about Partey and how horrible Arsenal is for continuining to employ him while they got a guy that advocates the genocide of palestians. That shit backup winger that used to play for fulham
Bullshit. What a fantastically moronic take. Firstly, to distill what clubs are down to such a binary "if you support X = BAD" is just so foolish. Secondly, what Israel are doing is justified. Starting a war then losing it doesn't make you a victim. Thirdly and lastly - nothing concrete has ever been said for Partey and knowing Mikel, I refuse to believe he'd have someone heinous around. I just cannot imagine it. Why bring him up? If you just want to shit on Spurs, then just do that.
We still employ #35 😬
Plz explain
Yeah I didn’t like him since that photo he posted, he’s a fucking bitch as well crying at every opportunity he’s a ballsless creature
What pic? Im out of the loop
Euros and Copa gonna slow down the transfer window, so gonna keep it calma for now. Either we get a signing or two done before the competition starts or it becomes a silly season just a month and a half left for the season begin.
forgive me father for I have sinned by watching a *Benjamin Sesko Goals, Highlights, Assists* this early
He is tall af and knows how to kick a football. Bring him here ASAP
You're lagging behind brother, GIA has already started surveilling each and every moment of his.
ive already loaded up my old fm saves and signed super wonderkid sesko asap
That's okay my child. Say three Our Teta's and a Hail Thierry and we'll say no more about it.
Sin more
Sesko plays like he's angry and looks exciting, but a lot of those goals and highlight worthy moments seem to come positions that I'm not sure he'd be able to replicate often in our system. Some of them are pure "Bundesliga tax" moments that I just don't rate at all. More specifically, the way many teams set up against us. He reminds me of Watkins in the way he's a straight line demon that cuts in and shoots. We don't really score *that* many goals like Kai's first against Chelsea at home. But it would be nice to get someone in the front line that can actually carry and run straight at the defense when we win the ball up high
Fair point, although I do wonder whether it might not help us create those kind of situations when we have a player like Sesko.
I think it will. GJ ain't the guy for this. Havertz has other responsibilities but he's better in these situations. Sesko though? That guy plays like he's got one thing in mind, and it's to barrel into the box. Does look exciting
Hes fast, powerful runner, opens angles well and has a laser of a shot. I dont see why he wouldnt do well here tbh
Look at the highlights reel of most available strikers and you'll see they get way more space than anyone gets for us, it's just something we have to accept.
Yeah I suppose that will basically always be the case. Not overly worried about Bundesliga tax, but just a little. Saka would put up 40 g/a over there
As long as he's not too expensive he's young enough that hopefully he can be coached to deal with the low block we tend to face, or the mid block that seems to be a killer and if he doesn't then we can probabl get most our money back sending him to somewhere where that's not such an issue.
2013 Theo Walcott, that’s all I’m going to say. If you know, you know.
🕊
I think we can go unbeaten next season.
Anulo Mufa. Inshallah.
thats my wild bet too!
Can we just appreciate how last year we were worried Saliba would have chronic back issues then he goes on to play every single minute in the PL this season. He’s the love child of a Rolls Royce and a Toyota.
Could we go after Lautaro? I’m not one to jump at every player that becomes available- Lautaro is on the short list of top forwards in Europe and from what I’ve read, he’s very willing to press.
Ship sailed on him in 2022 I think. After that disasterclass CL final I'm gonna pass on him
Been there, the man is an arse and his wife/agent may actually be worse
Please no Rashford
I love Sesko's celebration, it's so simple but the way he leaps and punches the air just looks cool. I will endorse the signing based on that alone
My ideal signings list for the window - Archie Gray, Doue, Hato, Sesko, Kadioglu, and a good backup GK
You watch a Sesko comp between this comment and your last? 🤣
I just said he doesn't deserve the hype he gets.People here talking like he's R9. He's still a good signing though.
Haven’t really seen that much hype tbh, most don’t even think he would displace Havertz for now. Just excited about the prospect.
Why Hato AND Kadioglu?
Kadioglu can play as a winger / LB / RB and can dribble well (something we lack). Hato because Kiwior and/or Zina might be leaving and Arteta rates him.
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1. Alexis (Won both Copa while here) 6. The rest of that trash
Wait why tf is alexis sanchez on this LOL
Sorry I am not buying this Sesko hype. He has not done enough to warrant this level of talk in this sub. He has potential and could go on to be a great signing but he has hardly done anything at a high level yet.
At the price allegedly being quoted he's more than worth a go and since he won't be first choice it won't kill us if he doesn't make it. This isn't a Gyokeres situation where half our budget could go on someone you;d have to imagine wouldn't turn up for anything less than starting.
I still think he's good but comments here like "can you imagine someone like Sesko signing for us three years ago?!" are a bit untethered from reality imo... he's a good prospect not the second coming of R9. Liverpool fans did the same with Darwin, now they all hate him so much they are turning to creationism.
> he's a good prospect not the second coming of R9 The issue is that we wouldn't get prospects *or* world class players unless they were at our buddies Real Madrid. Darwin was £85m, he cost more than Mane and Salah put together, it's fair that they had high hopes for him!
He’s 21, so I think we can cut him a *bit* of a break he doesn’t hit the ground running immediately, but he does have some pressure on him for the price tag.
I'd seen £45m, which in current striker terms is unfortunately (for the accountants) pretty low so should be ok. If it's higher then yeah, he's going to have the Havertz/Ramsdale/White out crowd on his back.
There's always people who get carried away but Sesko is very clearly a floor raiser who could become a ceiling raiser. I think most people know that, otherwise the price would be mindblowing to them.
Martinelli, Trossard, Havertz, Sesko, Saka and Jesus is a fun group of forwards. Do we think that’ll be it or will we sign another to replace Reiss in the event he leaves?
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Luckily for us Chelsea and United don’t have their ducks in line to sort out a deal before the Euros as he wants. He’s a good player right now but his ceiling is very high. It’s a nice addition for sure.
It's really making me confused if we're going to need a DM or LCM this summer window. Looking at the second half of the season, the way we had Rice as an 8 with Partey/Jorginho at 6, really elevated our team. So im thinking a 6 is the right one.
The "Rice 6 or 8" debate is really an issue of whether we can get a volume passer in midfield to partner him with. It's why Jorginho and Partey made him look so much more effective for us. Rice isn't that kind of profile, and I think our particular style of play would make him less effective if all he does is sit back. We just look so much more fluid when he's further ahead of the play. Not to mention the counterpressing goes up a notch.
That’s what Zinchenko was for and I predict would be Timber’s role. Arteta isn’t gonna move from 2 advanced 8s.
I'm really hyped by Timber. He's a proper athlete, too. Love players who can get about the pitch, won't shirk from duels, but are also technically sound.
Odegaard can be, has been, that volume passer but Arteta is doubtful about his defensive capabilities in a deeper role.
We'd need another highly technical midfield athlete. And we'd lose the final-ball playing ability of Ode which is, as you've seen with all the posts we've been making, heads and shoulders above everyone else right now. Volume passers are what they call water carriers. They don't get a lot of assists, but they set the tempo and might get a lot of the pre-assists with a line breaking pass that forces the defense to have to change shape.
Behold…Bruno G. He went from a CM during 22/23 to a more deeper defensive or DM role in 23/24 season. This just means he can be deployed in both the 8 and 6 roles depending on any issues with Rice/Jorginho as the 6. https://preview.redd.it/pgowrz9win3d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccae3a1b1ed9f38e3d701854dab8dbac24b902a6
Behold...the ultimate Rodri killer
Rice isn't the ideal 8. We looked good because he's good, but he's not a final third player and our LHS suffered partly because he has no capacity to allow our left side to drift in in the same way that Xhaka did. Let Rice be the 6 he is and let's get an 8.
Depends on what your rank more. OOP defensive solidity or better attacking fluidity. Rice roaming role as an 8 plus where he is able to engage in the press OOP is really really key for our stability and eliminating threat. Personally I like that more
We probably looked better with Rice as an 8 and Jorgi/Partey at 6 because we didn’t have an actual 8 for Rice to play with as a 6. Havertz in midfield just doesn’t work, hope Mikel doesn’t try it again. And the Sesko links tell me that he won’t, so it’ll probably be an 8 we’re after.
And we'll be even better with Rice as the 6 and a proper 8.
Imagine us being in for a guy like Sesko 4-5 years ago. He wouldn’t even give us a look, and other fans would laugh at us for even suggesting he was a possibility. Arteta brought us back from the dead.
We signed Pepe 5 years ago. It didn't work out and he never lived up to the expectations but he was a much bigger signing, at the time, than Sesko would be. The following year we signed Partey, again hasn't exactly worked as we hoped, but that was a massive signing. Just [look at the reaction](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/hr50h1/exclusive_thomas_partey_set_to_snub_arsenal_by/) when other fans thought he turned us down in 2020. You're massively underestimating how big this club is and how many players want to play for Arsenal even in our down years.
Hehe love the Partey post throwback
Brother idk who you think he is but he is not quite that yet lol
He’s very highly regarded amongst the elite clubs. Chelsea and United have been looking at him for 3-4 year, and Football manager, ran by extremely highly regarded scouts, have him rated very highly. I just don’t think he would’ve given us a real chance 3-4 years ago. Maybe he wouldn’t laugh us off, but he wouldn’t choose us. Also, we just signed Rice last year over City and Bayern. Absolutely no chance he would’ve came here pre Arteta.
I mean 5 years ago we signed literally one of the best teenage prospects in the world
Hopefully getting rid of zinchenko?? That guy stinks
Agrees
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Use him for raising money, yes
False. We cannot carry players who cannot win one v one contests. I also dont trust him in possession, gives the ball away far too often.
Personally, I think the team has moved past him. His ability to play the inverted role added a whole new dimension when he first came in, but now teams have worked him out and his serious lack of defensive ability is often targeted by opposition. In addition to that, there's been no word of extending his contract (iirc he has only 2 years remaining) and he's probably 3rd or 4th choice LB at this point, it makes sense to move him on this window.
He has to go. It’s not even that I think he’s a horrible player or anything, but his fingerprints were all over our downfalls each of the last two seasons. We have to get that stink off the club.
I agree. He’s not elevating the team in anyway, the amount of times he gave the ball away this season was infuriating.
Let’s hope Shakhtar haven’t pissed the Mudryk millions up the wall
those might have been allocated for the drone fund unfortunately
>:^(
If Chelsea get that £38m RC fee for Lukaku…
Then the amount of money he's cost various teams gets even more hilarious
Nwaneri is going to be a star.
I wonder if he’s the reason the club isn’t going after Saka cover as strongly as they might otherwise
He's literally our version of Zaire-Emery. Needs to start all cup games and be trusted as a sub in certain PL games.
Nothing alike except they dribble.
Version as in ridiculously young player who's ready to play for the first team, could have also said Yamal or Cubarsi. Never made any direct comparisons on play style, but not unlike you to immediately argue a point.
Damn so was the “literally” just for presentation lol
Yes, it was meant to emphasize the age, not to insinuate that he's literally a copy of Zaire-Emery. Hope that helps.
Dumb phrasing
Trump guilty, Man City next inshallah
Best news all day tbh
What is the point if he can still run in elections and can still be President? Also, US Presidents have set up torture sites, staged coups, ordered human experiments, invaded entire countries, ethnically cleansed indegenous peoples, owned slaves, enabled genocides. That the first Presidential conviction ever is over hush money to cover a sex scandal is... very telling.
Gives them the opportunity to start every sentence with 'convicted felon Donald Trump' which they think will influence the electorate. I doubt it makes much difference, it's the tip of the iceberg with what Presidents have done as you say. It's not going to change anybody already voting for him at least.
You think these peoples actually have morals or standards with their political parties? It’s all about bias and tribalism.
MURICA
MURICA indeed
My day got soooo much better XD
Chelsea are going to sign Sesko
Where did you see this?? All reports say they want Osimhein
https://preview.redd.it/ywuh5dfu9n3d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=070c250130e497c82c8bb80c300eda3618295f36
this hits so hard 😭 that 20 dollar cheeseburger and fries is crazy
https://x.com/EduardoHagn/status/1796279952800931926 We need this guy suspended for transfer windows
Guys hilarious, he twerks for every player that’s linked to us reliable or not. Could be an 11 year old nobody heard of and he’ll tweet “he’s a ✨special ✨ talent”
Had him blocked for years. Guy adds no value.
I can’t wait until we perfect modern football by winning the league without scoring any goals from open play or conceding any shots on target
114 points, 38 goal difference, 38 scored, 0 conceded. 1-0 to the Arsenal
City have just won the league and they want to sign rodrygo, bruno g and they have already sign savinho
People are sleeping on the Savio signing
Rodrygo isn’t leaving Madrid and if he does it’ll be for 140 million plus
they'll get him for 95 mil and make up the difference in underhanded payments
116 incoming
Getting Fofana from Monaco then playing a lineup with a spine of Salibriel, Rice/Fofana then Havertz is absolute bullyball shit. Activate it.
[I have so much faith in this guy. ](https://x.com/rwtactico2/status/1796204795629347016?t=Eap5SAls08gDHmOVH0XMHg&s=19) This is why we don't need no Gray
Answer me
How do you verbalise your username
It's not to be verbalised. Only read...
At least we'll know Guimares' future by late-June, if he's not signed by the Copa America, his clause expires and Newcastle start asking for 200m.
No one can pay 100mil in June as ffp resets in july
No ones paying 100 mill for him and it seems like theyll need to sell. Imo city and arsenal will make the same offer and leave it upto bruno g to pick.
Sesko seems like a no brainer. Pretty cheap considering costs in today’s market. Proven goal scorer although granted not in the Prem (Different animal). But I think more importantly he shows raw talent that arteta can mold to fit our style. That said, any other talents you want us to be linked with that make sense?
Sesko looks like a projekt rather then profilic striker. He is a risk. In january everyone and their mama was saying We need a better striker, a Toney or Osimhen like player. Against Fulham, west ham, Aston villa, porto and bayern We struggled. I am not sure Sesko is the type of player that would make a difference. We are betting on Arteta improving him and fixing his finishing issues.
people who were saying Toney were lowkey stupid
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Miguel Gutierrez as our LB option is the move can play the inverted LB role plus his release clause is 35 million only issue if he wants to go back to Real Madrid
If we get sesko imo we will need an overlapping type fullback based off the fact that we also want a midfielder.
Gosh he’s my dream signing. He or Theo Hernandez will really elevate our left side.
I’ve said it before. Arteta’s time in England shines through with these links to giants. He wants a team of Orcs, but he wants them with tech. I’m all in.
A welcome change from the early Emirates era of Arsenal signing 5 foot tall technicians who would get their ankles crunched by Pulis's and Allardyce's teams.
It kind of makes sense. There may be games where it’s very hard to break down a defense or hard to create chances, but there will always be set piece opportunities. Having just about a whole team of fairly tall players can make a nice difference over the course of a season in terms of attacking and defending set pieces
I've said before but he's more Moyes than Pep imo
Oft repeated on AVPod but arteta Respects all aspects of the game equally. The best set piece, defensive and attacking team in the league. Seems like as long as I've been alive we haven't been able to say that about even some of the best arse teams. Best workrate, tallest and the most guys who would shag your wife if you left her alone with them. Alright we can't measure those but think it can be argued.
Just saw Nwaneri’s goal and penalty. Trying to temper expectations while simultaneously mixing the Kool-Aid. That boy good.
https://preview.redd.it/xl4mafpwbm3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6dc36d50b07bf2abf302207b4cc289593dafa95 Edit: OC just in case you were wondering 💪
Idc enough to scout another defender..when they arrive I'll see if I like them or not.
[“technical empathy”](https://x.com/mishimaesque/status/1795975511690088781?s=46) What more does Odegaard have to do smh
Not sure that's the right video, surely? First pass isnt really a pass and goes only to Saka's left and then it goes into space and Saka takes it on his left... I'm sure it's a usable phrase but not applicable in thar video. Thank you for showing me how stupid some people are.
So many nonewthing copycats. One is enough.
Shit like that ruins the phrase. Absolute idiot. If he tries to stick that on sakas left foot the defender gets back into the play and either fouls saka or tackles ball.
Sesko can be useful for Set Piece FC. Him and Gabriel can get a few extra goals with an extra target man to worry about
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It seems that way but if we plan to keep this high field tilt and force set pieces strategy then think we will continue to be up there
Maybe it’s the health effects
Wait how is Kiwior for sale? What's he done wrong?
*If* he's for sale, it's possible that he's done nothing wrong, just not quite done enough and specifically enough to keep him ahead of other options on the market. That wouldn't necessarily be wholly his fault, either, unless our development process for him has been note perfect, and he just hasn't kept up. What's interesting to me is who isn't on Gary Jacob's list, and the fact that he has us more focussed on younger targets, e.g. Sesko.
Touche. Younger players are cheaper so that figures to a degree.
It seems like our reporters are aligned on the notion that there's going to be a fair bit of churn in the younger, less-used members of the squad-- which, as you point out, won't likely cost us much over all. We might lose a little on the ones we sell, but it won't be too bad. We've already seen this to a degree with Sambi and Nuno. Personally, I think Kiwior has done enough to at least warrant a longer look, but maybe he hasn't been as consistent in training as we'd hoped.
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Yeah no way
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No one heard of Tomi either lol. You sign footballers, not names.
Selling a player doesn't mean they did anything wrong or are bad. There was noise in the winter that he wanted to play more, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was interest.
Nothing he’s just someone who’s sellable if they feel like it would benefit us if we get Hato probably
I don’t really understand why this sub still has the idea we might get Hato
Because we have been linked with him a lot
Yes, but he signed a new contract so it’s very unlikely now
No chance we sell both Zinchenko and Kiwior.
Even if we have the opportunity to bring in a better LB/LCB and right-footed center back?
Too many changes in one summer considering we still have a midfielder, striker, possibly winger + Raya and possibly back up keeper on the agenda. We won't sign more than one defender this window.
Only Timber and the midfielder might have a guaranteed starting spot so it doesn't matter that much about the numbers.
The quote was "kiwior, zinchenko five other players that are obviously leaving are possibly on the list" Whole lot of nothing if you ask me.
Ah. Yeah the title/quote was manipulated a lot then
Who says he is
You really need to stop taking random shit spewed from questionable sources as gospel
I don't think he'll be sold.
Theres quite a bit of interest in him from Italy
If England are to lose this on pens, it’s bitterly unlucky. The much better team for the majority of the game but just haven’t taken our chances.
Intresting that the buzz around Osihem and Toney has died down. What a difference a couple of months make.
Is Morata a good comparison to Sesko? They seem to have a similar build.
God no
Morata is more of a link up striker. Not great at finishing, average physicality and isn't exactly pacy. Sesko is a bit of the opposite I'd say.
Nah prime Morata was a peak athlete but he finishing never improved. Flattered to deceive his whole career.
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I feel like we ideally wanna move on from both, but Zinchenko is a much easier sale so the expectations are that he'll go. Jesus on the other hand needs surgery and his wages will always be a stumbling block, so we probably don't think it's realistic. But if we somehow get reasonable offers, I doubt we'll refuse it.
We dont want another partey situation
what do you mean?
I bet Mikel goes through severe withdrawal symptoms if the club fails to satisfy his fullback addiction