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It just occurred to me that there's no way we sign Sesko. Similar to how we're heavily linked with a player every transfer window, only to "miss out" and then get someone else who eventually fits the team better, I say we miss out on Sesko and land a Gyokeres or someone else instead
That's no longer the case.
This only happens when we target the best available profile and hope for the best. This window, it's Bruno Guimaraes. No way we get him, but you've got to put your application in for the best available players in the position you need.
Sesko isn't the best available striker/forward.
Pure logic only takes you so far in situations where most variables are unknowns. He's not presenting a thesis for his maths doctorate, he's pointing out a pretty consistent trend in Arteta/Edu's transfer outcomes. Pattern recognition is valuable.
Kinda wonder where Khephren Thuram might be on the move to this summer considering some of the reports he could go for a bargain with just a year left on his deal.
Ramsdale has always had problems at his near post. That along with his inability to focus and tendency to want to engage with the crowd is the reason he has fallen out of favour. I remember the Brentford game, he makes the sensational blunder for it to be 1-1; Havertz scores late to make it 2-1, then Ramsdale sticks his tongue out to the Brentford crowd. What annoyed me, is he was at fault for letting Brentford get back into the game, the outfield players corrected his error, and you would think he would want to remain focused for the last 5 minus+ injury time, but instead his first thought was to try and wind up the Brentford away section.
Raya just doesnt play these silly games and Raya's head is always in the game. Raya's effect on the backline has elevated the team. Arteta was so right to replace Ramsdale. Ramsdale is a keeper whose goal needs to be peppered so he is always 'in the game'. However, playing for dominant teams that dont concede many chances, means that he 'zones out' from boredom and is prone to errors.
Ramsdale isnt a top keeper. Raya is
That debate ended 6 months ago.
We all know Ramsdale isn't good enough. I think Ramsdale can go to Serie A even for a team like Roma/Lazio etc and get his mojo back, instead of going to a mid-table team here.
Think Serie A will suit him a bit more.
Just seen cbs deleted their saka graphic and replaced it with one of kane and Palmer lol. Crazy backlash from the fans, rightly so. BBC changed theirs to foden and Gordon.
Don't expect the s*n or the torygraph to change theirs tho.
This agenda is getting scary man, he didn’t even start
https://preview.redd.it/ij79q4ull85d1.jpeg?width=392&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d78e8df6d28fa6ac526ee082c11d479ba1829f27
As an American I can't tell if this issue is a result of cherry picking the papers with Sakas image or if it's real. Looks like it's really an overrepresrntation of Saka out there? In a game he didn't even start? That's fucked up.
Some guy earlier tried to gaslight me, claiming Saka is treated the way he is because he plays for Arsenal (and not United), not because he's black. Six hours later, the kid who played less than 30 minutes as a sub is the poster boy for the loss. You can't make this up. 😂
Edit: to the people downvoting, you are part of the problem.
Telegraph, sun, BBC, cbs, all made him the poster boy of defeat.
This comes a few days after Bellingham gets ridiculed like he's a twat for his speech after winning the ucl.
Something stinks man, rashford and sterling had to go through this criticism in the past too. Meanwhile foden and kane can drop all the stinkers they want and they're immune to criticism
Honestly the sooner England lose and come out of the competition the better for me, so our lads can come home and prepare for the new season.
And I say this as an England fan.
I'm fuming at this.
Was it CBS that had this picture of Saka on Instagram?
I saw all the comments calling it racist and trying to put the loss on Saka when he barely played.
I don’t see it anymore.
Thought mainoo had a pretty poor game. Not the best positionally and didn't make much happen on the ball, would rather a quick passer in these games to feed the attackers.
Yeah I was quite dissapotinted as I was looking forward to seeing him next to rice. I always knew he had a lot to work on defensively but I was hoping that next to someone like rice we could balance that out. And I would love to see him here
My only caveat would be that arteta actually knows how to setup a midfield whereas Southgate doesn't have a fucking clue. He seemed to want mainoo holding last night and rice pressing high, but as mentioned mainoo doesn't have the defensive awareness atm to play a single pivot (reminds me a bit of sambi in this sense). Also had Foden wondering around doing fuck all which didn't help
In this game I recon you flip mainoo and rice's roles and that midfield looks loads better, along with sticking Foden out on the left out of the way
They played double pivot-style sharing of attack and defense but another major factor is mainoo kept drifting into the same positions that foden and palmer were trying to play in.
It was just a bit awkward having three between the lines and not many runs in behind.
Only seen him play one gamenin the europa and he looked half decent.
I dont know how well hw would translate to the prem though.
Tomiyasu is a rare win from that leauge. Darmian was much more proven than Ruggeri is and he didnt do much at United.
Great shout on fifa tho.
Poor ole Ramsdale can't catch a break. And, i still cant understand how england, pop 57 million can lose to Iceland, pop. 380,000. Every male over 16 must get to try out for their team.
CBS using Saka’s face for the loss is nasty nasty work
https://preview.redd.it/jsrrwid8185d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc3d07b232716b1ac84ac412e0a85fde44cc8e03
The agenda against him is so bizarre.
Rashford and Sancho both missed pens in the last final, but as soon as it happened, it was like those pens never happened and England lost the shootout 5-4 off the back of Saka’s miss.
People love to mock us for suggesting this is the case, but there really is a strong anti Arsenal sentiment online, maybe even stronger than United.
We had a whole week of media and online harassment for Ben White because he decided to not play for England. It’s mad.
Saka was basically treated like a make-a-wish kid after the miss. It was an overwhelmingly net positive reaction from supporters in England to the point of being quite condescending.
Hate for English clubs is proportionate to popularity, and as such Arsenal are 3rd after United and Liverpool.
There's a lot of paranoid bullshit on here about Arsenal.
But it's also true that the club isn't particularly well liked by the establishment, be that the northern clubs that dominate the game, or the relative lack of former Arsenal players and managers in the media, or London being fragmented by having so many clubs.
Historically Arsenal isn't a popular club, though no less so than other London clubs.
It’s a mix of things imo.
Firstly, and the most important factor is that we’re just one of the most hated clubs in the country.
Secondly, the chronically online children responsible for the majority of this have grown up with us being a “banter” side, and as we’ve returned to the level we belong in the last 3 seasons, the amount they can banter is severely limited compared to before so the banter is just forced on literally anything we do.
Third, we are probably the most active fanbase online and unfortunately any kind of attention makes money online so it’s easy money for these people and these ridiculous narratives then go and are now spiralling into mainstream media due to the gutter level of punditry we generally have on big networks.
Lastly, as Saka is our golden child he becomes an easy trigger and gets the bulk of the abuse. There’s also another reason with Saka which is easy to figure out when you consider the people who don’t get this level of abuse.
There’s almost two batches of people, 1 who know all of this and just use Saka to make money/attention, and then the casual crowd who get their ball knowledge from internet memes and then genuinely believe and push these agendas.
This sub, and big Arsenal fans online in general, seem obsessed with Foden in a way I don’t get. Is it a rebuttal to the Saka hate, that we have to bring one down to lift up one of our own?
Fodens good but he's shit for england. I've a better feeling about palmer these last two games...has more to his game and better vision. Foden is capable of much more but he never reaches his heights internationally.
*sigh* Fine I’ll bite, and dumb it down for you a bit; one of the most technically gifted players England have, elite at literally everything you’d need in a midfielder in those advanced positions (vision, dribbling, tight spaces ball control, passing) and can slot in seamlessly in multiple positions upfront.
But someone who has made his mind up because “muhhhh PR!!!!!” won’t be convinced otherwise so idc.
Oh and the team that just finished above us’ second best player 👍🏻
The term “elite” is used to describe someone in the 90th percentile of everything they do compared to other players in same positions. You mentioned vision, dribbling, tight spaces ball control, and passing. Let’s break it down, shall we?
2023/24 season -
Vision: Stats to look for - xA (expected assists), big chances created, and conversion rate; Foden xA was 5.59 compared to Saka’s xA of 8.84, 10 big chances created to Saka’s 15, and 22.92% conversion rate to Saka’s 27.66% 👍🏼
Dribbling: Stats to look for - Duels contested and take ons completed; Foden’s dual contested was 8.6 vs 12.8 for Saka, and 1.5 take ons completed vs 1.6 for Saka 👍🏼
Tight spaces ball control and Passing: Foden pass completion % was 89% compared to Saka’s 82% (keep in mind Foden starts games centrally as well where he is far more effective) 👍🏼
These are hardly elite numbers, especially considering Foden trails Saka in almost every metric for a player in their positions. See the great thing with eye test merchants is that eye test is subjective while stats are objective. And I’m not just using Saka to bash on Foden. I’m using Saka because he’s not in top 3 of our players of the season. Btw team accolades are hardly an argument for making one player better than the other; by that logic Scott Carson would be the goat of GKs. And as for Foden’s influence at Man City, he’s comfortably behind Rodri, Haaland, and KDB (accounting for minutes).
The fact is that Foden is way overrated for what he brings to a team, and one look at the post-match thread from tonight’s game will make you realize that it’s not just Arsenal fans who share that sentiment.
Sorry it got a bit lengthy and I tried my best to dumb it down for you but here’s a graphic just in case you needed further dumbing down. 👍🏼
https://preview.redd.it/hc60bjxb985d1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ac89a930a7d23f20100eb10c00ea4d2cd15cd04
Foden scored some bangers in a crucial games. That's about it, really. That's enough to get everyone on the hype train.
My strongest memory of him this season was getting yanked after an anonymous showing when we went to Manchester. He was completely pocketed by White.
He is an above average footballer for both club and country; good enough to make the squad but not good enough to impact on his own. His only decent trait is finishing; he’s just had the liberty of playing alongside some of the best creators in KDB, Bilva, etc. He had less goal involvements against the big 6 this past season than Saka, Palmer, and Gordon while trailing them in npxGI per 90. He’s done nothing noteworthy for England since breaking into the national team, and he’s two years older than Saka.
https://preview.redd.it/m5cao0gnx75d1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4b073c35384622fa7a61a3278f4541f37cf28ce
Based on the post match threads the only reputation I’m seeing is that of Foden (6.6 on sofascore; lowest of any player on the pitch tonight) ghosting in an England shirt. It seems Rice had an ok game (7.7 on sofascore; highest among England) compared to rest of the team.
Zubimendi links starting to be rekindled a bit by Spanish media and Fabrizio.
I really hope he’s open to coming. I don’t think there’s better value to be had in the midfield than Zubimendi at his 60M release clause.
He will take a season or two to settle here.
People expecting him to adjust to the physicality within a season's time will be left underwhelmed.
Giving our timeline, Idk if it's the best bet.
https://preview.redd.it/mo9iz4jcq75d1.png?width=589&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef6a4fd61b2a632ebf25a5f0e964ac34979dba13
Nazi Germany levels of propaganda bro
imagine how good saka and odegaard must be if they just had that season playing with such garbage progression (i don't think that's really Rice's strength but its not like it precludes other players from performing)
19 goals from 10 xG isn't a gift from the system. Lot of it just was individual brilliance which ironically you think would translate to the national team.
I rarely find anyone consistently elite in Southgate's system. Offensively, it's just not fluid enough and Foden does look lost.
This is just the Golden Generation 2.0 but we look better because the quality of players in competing teams is worse other than France.
Trent is a far superior player who has experience playing with Saka for England, I would take him or Reece James if he was fit at RB over White every day of the week.
Isn't England's problem defense and White's primary advantage over Trent, being a stronger defender? I don't watch England or TAA, so I'm genuinely asking.
The defense is good enough, they can’t create anything a half decent team, especially one that sits back despite the surplus of attacking talent in almost every position. Also just shit football
Chucking a cross every time you can isn't creation. I wish people could read beyond surface-level stats.
There's intelligent play making and then there's that.
Trent is capable of the former but rarely.
He isn't an upgrade on White because the defence is weak and tournaments are won with a base of defence more often than not.
White is more than capable of assisting the attack and if I'm not wrong had top 3 G/A for a full back this season in the Prem?
Are you actually trying to make the argument that Trent isn’t capable of anything but spamming crosses, in favor of Ben fucking White. Trent is arguably the most talented player in the entire squad. The defense is perfectly fine with a more defensive LB to balance Trent (such as Gomez, or Branthwaite who could have played that wide CB/ LB role very well) and the best defensive shield itw in Rice.
White has become overrated fast, he’s a stripper 1v1. We saw him twerking for Garnacho 3 weeks ago ffs
Glad to help! I looked through the results for each season on wikipedia lol. Their results tables are easy to separate home and away and it's colour coded too, so no results in red means for the home column means no losses, and no results in blue in the away column means no losses as well
I'm jumping on the Wilson Odobert hype before he blows up. 19 yr old tidy attacker who can play all positions behind the striker and PL experienced. Could easily replace Nelsons spot in the squad.
Foden is such a great player who for the first time in his career carried a team last season. But for England he has always been totally underwhelming, is he a system player?
Oh, I love xG overperformers. However, to describe them as the ones carrying the team, especially when they're not the striker, and Foden in particular whose narrative is that of the heir to KDB? The point is, I would not say Odegaard carried our team last season because of his goals, or that Trossard did it this season.
To me carrying has the connotation of influence, being able to do it for the full 90 mins, game after game, and Rodri and Bernardo Silva fit that definition much better.
> To me carrying has the connotation of influence, being able to do it for the full 90 mins, game after game, and Rodri and Bernardo Silva fit that definition much better.
The whole definition of a carry job is to affect the results of your team more than it would've been otherwise. And nothing does that more than scoring goals.
City isn't just 1 player but there's a good argument to be made that Foden was the player that got City over the line offensively.
19 goals in 10 xG is the definition of a carry job because Foden affected their results positively when they possibly were struggling to get a result.
Sure, he's not a Hazard but gimme a break with that definition. Had Saka done that for us, we'd be the PL winners right now and calling that a carry job.
Southgate handicapped himself with his squad selection. What’s the point of calling up so many no 10s when you play a double pivot?
Minimal transitional threat in this squad, and little penetration in the wide areas.
Generational Phillip Walter Foden showing up for England again
Gary Neville sabotages Man U with his influence and the same for England. All this talk of Foden has to have the team built around him only for him to be anonymous every time
Missing out on Sesko will be a blessing in disguise if it means Havertz gets a full season at 9. Winger and midfielder is what we need, none of this Havertz at LCM garbage.
It will be a disaster let alone blessing in disguise if we don't get a striker. Havertz has had a good half season where he played striker which may well continue into next season but it would be naive to go into the season with Jesus or Trossard as our second choice striker. Sesko is a must, if not him then another striker
>would be naive to go into the season with Jesus or Trossard as our second choice striker
Nah, this is too far lol. Jesus is unreal if he stays fit, and Trossard is more than capable.
I know Foden is better than Palmer but the two of them clearly benefit from the system their clubs play. Palmer obviously isn't anywhere near world class but the fact Foden apparently is sums up how little that label means anymore.
He's a support player and needs more decisive players around him to take responsibility. It's mental that he got player of the season btw.
EDIT: Rice has done more playmaking than him tonight, which isn't his job
Ramsdale has only played one game in the past few months, and yes, he made a mistake. But why is everyone overreacting as if he's a bad keeper? He was excellent for us for two years, and no one on this subreddit was saying we needed a new keeper when Raya joined.
Also it wasn't a terrible mistake. I have seen world class keepers make worse mistakes.
> ...why is everyone overreacting as if he's a bad keeper?
I'm really not seeing anyone do that, let alone 'everyone'. Maybe I missed it.
Raya is clear, that's all.
> ...no one on this subreddit was saying we needed a new keeper when Raya joined.
I said on the day Ramsdale signed that I was concerned he would only be as much of an improvement on Leno as Leno was on Cech before him: that is, an improvement, but not enough, and ultimately leaving us wanting.
I know this because some absolute weapon tried to drag that comment up later, not long ago, as 'receipts' of my alleged 'rAmSdAlE hAtE'. This was especially funny because I had been, at the time, wearing a 'Leno: The Professional' flair, so I clearly thought comparing him to Leno was at least a little flattering. It was even funnier because I had gone on to give Ramsdale a great deal of credit for the improvement he made in his early time with Inaki and Arteta.
But, ultimately, he did not continue improving, nor improve enough overall, to put him clear of Raya, and back we went, as I expected we would.
It was an obvious place for improvement the season before last.
> Also it wasn't a terrible mistake. I have seen world class keepers make worse mistakes.
Of course. Ederson, Alisson, and even Neuer make mistakes: we saw an horrific one from Neuer in the CL this year.
The problem is that Ramsdale doesn't offer enough in compensation for his mistakes, let alone for his limitations.
its a mistake he makes regularly, so not really a random one off mistake, thats just who he is as a keeper, he gives up goals at the near post very often. Also was not excellent for 2 years
I think he just pissed a lot of fans off with his performances in the 22/23 run-in, and then his podcast appearances were also subsequently embarrassing. How can you be a serious outfit when your goalkeeper is admitting he struggles focusing in games?
It's not solely his fault that we lost the title in 22/23. it was because of mistakes made by everyone. Saka missed the penalty against West Ham, and we were terrible against City, Brighton, and Nottingham Forest.
The Southampton game was a draw due to his error, but he also secured us a draw against Liverpool.
I like Raya and believe he's the better goalkeeper, but I don't understand the hate towards Ramsdale.
isnt people always talking about mental health and its importance? Like, i wanted Ramsdale out since early in the preseason and i was livid that we couldnt sell him once we got Raya but lets not start to just downplay like he never do anything for the club
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It just occurred to me that there's no way we sign Sesko. Similar to how we're heavily linked with a player every transfer window, only to "miss out" and then get someone else who eventually fits the team better, I say we miss out on Sesko and land a Gyokeres or someone else instead
That's no longer the case. This only happens when we target the best available profile and hope for the best. This window, it's Bruno Guimaraes. No way we get him, but you've got to put your application in for the best available players in the position you need. Sesko isn't the best available striker/forward.
Here you go https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1800443297443570011?t=GQQaXtGkWmYr-c7UE3pBHg&s=19
I hear you. We'll see I guess. Silly season is in full swing
An opinion based on zero logic.
There's your logic https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1800443297443570011?t=GQQaXtGkWmYr-c7UE3pBHg&s=19 This is not my first rodeo
Pure logic only takes you so far in situations where most variables are unknowns. He's not presenting a thesis for his maths doctorate, he's pointing out a pretty consistent trend in Arteta/Edu's transfer outcomes. Pattern recognition is valuable.
Thank you. And we were right at the end of the day
Welcome to the jungle
A year from now we will be celebrating our pl 3 peat.
Even if they strip City’s titles they won’t give them to us
Didn't they give Juve's to Inter? Or idk. Can't remember how that was recorded stats wise
everything about this city shit is unprecedented u never know
Why are you harshing my mellow on a Friday evening my dude?
Kinda wonder where Khephren Thuram might be on the move to this summer considering some of the reports he could go for a bargain with just a year left on his deal.
Last rumor I read was Inter considering him. Interesting how there's not much noise surrounding him.
Minteh is apparently available due to Newcastle’s FFP problems, should be all over that with our “Red Cartel” powers
Ramsdale has always had problems at his near post. That along with his inability to focus and tendency to want to engage with the crowd is the reason he has fallen out of favour. I remember the Brentford game, he makes the sensational blunder for it to be 1-1; Havertz scores late to make it 2-1, then Ramsdale sticks his tongue out to the Brentford crowd. What annoyed me, is he was at fault for letting Brentford get back into the game, the outfield players corrected his error, and you would think he would want to remain focused for the last 5 minus+ injury time, but instead his first thought was to try and wind up the Brentford away section. Raya just doesnt play these silly games and Raya's head is always in the game. Raya's effect on the backline has elevated the team. Arteta was so right to replace Ramsdale. Ramsdale is a keeper whose goal needs to be peppered so he is always 'in the game'. However, playing for dominant teams that dont concede many chances, means that he 'zones out' from boredom and is prone to errors. Ramsdale isnt a top keeper. Raya is
That debate ended 6 months ago. We all know Ramsdale isn't good enough. I think Ramsdale can go to Serie A even for a team like Roma/Lazio etc and get his mojo back, instead of going to a mid-table team here. Think Serie A will suit him a bit more.
Yes, he's also a terrible second GK. He need to play games to keep his wit, we can all see how rusty he is in those Brentford games
Just seen cbs deleted their saka graphic and replaced it with one of kane and Palmer lol. Crazy backlash from the fans, rightly so. BBC changed theirs to foden and Gordon. Don't expect the s*n or the torygraph to change theirs tho.
Yeah we are not getting more than 15m for Ramsdale - man is hot garbage
JFC have some goddamn respect, he's not in good form but he's far from being "hot garbage"
This agenda is getting scary man, he didn’t even start https://preview.redd.it/ij79q4ull85d1.jpeg?width=392&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d78e8df6d28fa6ac526ee082c11d479ba1829f27
As an American I can't tell if this issue is a result of cherry picking the papers with Sakas image or if it's real. Looks like it's really an overrepresrntation of Saka out there? In a game he didn't even start? That's fucked up.
Some guy earlier tried to gaslight me, claiming Saka is treated the way he is because he plays for Arsenal (and not United), not because he's black. Six hours later, the kid who played less than 30 minutes as a sub is the poster boy for the loss. You can't make this up. 😂 Edit: to the people downvoting, you are part of the problem.
https://preview.redd.it/2a2llwo6w85d1.png?width=1159&format=png&auto=webp&s=0602d8426a5c3919b540a57c7a3cd103e8eee243
Telegraph, sun, BBC, cbs, all made him the poster boy of defeat. This comes a few days after Bellingham gets ridiculed like he's a twat for his speech after winning the ucl. Something stinks man, rashford and sterling had to go through this criticism in the past too. Meanwhile foden and kane can drop all the stinkers they want and they're immune to criticism
Honestly the sooner England lose and come out of the competition the better for me, so our lads can come home and prepare for the new season. And I say this as an England fan. I'm fuming at this.
Was it CBS that had this picture of Saka on Instagram? I saw all the comments calling it racist and trying to put the loss on Saka when he barely played. I don’t see it anymore.
Thought mainoo had a pretty poor game. Not the best positionally and didn't make much happen on the ball, would rather a quick passer in these games to feed the attackers.
Yeah I was quite dissapotinted as I was looking forward to seeing him next to rice. I always knew he had a lot to work on defensively but I was hoping that next to someone like rice we could balance that out. And I would love to see him here My only caveat would be that arteta actually knows how to setup a midfield whereas Southgate doesn't have a fucking clue. He seemed to want mainoo holding last night and rice pressing high, but as mentioned mainoo doesn't have the defensive awareness atm to play a single pivot (reminds me a bit of sambi in this sense). Also had Foden wondering around doing fuck all which didn't help In this game I recon you flip mainoo and rice's roles and that midfield looks loads better, along with sticking Foden out on the left out of the way
They played double pivot-style sharing of attack and defense but another major factor is mainoo kept drifting into the same positions that foden and palmer were trying to play in. It was just a bit awkward having three between the lines and not many runs in behind.
I think Ruggeri at Atalanta is the player most similar to what Arteta wants at LB. More of a midfielder but with decent size and defensive ability.
Only seen him play one gamenin the europa and he looked half decent. I dont know how well hw would translate to the prem though. Tomiyasu is a rare win from that leauge. Darmian was much more proven than Ruggeri is and he didnt do much at United. Great shout on fifa tho.
Poor ole Ramsdale can't catch a break. And, i still cant understand how england, pop 57 million can lose to Iceland, pop. 380,000. Every male over 16 must get to try out for their team.
Graelish would never
CBS using Saka’s face for the loss is nasty nasty work https://preview.redd.it/jsrrwid8185d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc3d07b232716b1ac84ac412e0a85fde44cc8e03
Yeah, I saw this when it was posted and now it’s gone.
I fear what will happen when we exit the tournament. They tried their best to drag him down and they will again.
The agenda against him is so bizarre. Rashford and Sancho both missed pens in the last final, but as soon as it happened, it was like those pens never happened and England lost the shootout 5-4 off the back of Saka’s miss. People love to mock us for suggesting this is the case, but there really is a strong anti Arsenal sentiment online, maybe even stronger than United. We had a whole week of media and online harassment for Ben White because he decided to not play for England. It’s mad.
Saka was basically treated like a make-a-wish kid after the miss. It was an overwhelmingly net positive reaction from supporters in England to the point of being quite condescending. Hate for English clubs is proportionate to popularity, and as such Arsenal are 3rd after United and Liverpool.
There's a lot of paranoid bullshit on here about Arsenal. But it's also true that the club isn't particularly well liked by the establishment, be that the northern clubs that dominate the game, or the relative lack of former Arsenal players and managers in the media, or London being fragmented by having so many clubs. Historically Arsenal isn't a popular club, though no less so than other London clubs.
It’s a mix of things imo. Firstly, and the most important factor is that we’re just one of the most hated clubs in the country. Secondly, the chronically online children responsible for the majority of this have grown up with us being a “banter” side, and as we’ve returned to the level we belong in the last 3 seasons, the amount they can banter is severely limited compared to before so the banter is just forced on literally anything we do. Third, we are probably the most active fanbase online and unfortunately any kind of attention makes money online so it’s easy money for these people and these ridiculous narratives then go and are now spiralling into mainstream media due to the gutter level of punditry we generally have on big networks. Lastly, as Saka is our golden child he becomes an easy trigger and gets the bulk of the abuse. There’s also another reason with Saka which is easy to figure out when you consider the people who don’t get this level of abuse. There’s almost two batches of people, 1 who know all of this and just use Saka to make money/attention, and then the casual crowd who get their ball knowledge from internet memes and then genuinely believe and push these agendas.
Who's they?
https://preview.redd.it/37casbe3f85d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dbc21144a4c3182f936812a653a40bbfda428ba
Anything to deflect from the real failures tonight.
Same thing on BBC
Kane's hair transplant looks so obvious lol
England has to do well enough that Utd hire him at thy end of the tournament. Getting a bit worried now.
This sub, and big Arsenal fans online in general, seem obsessed with Foden in a way I don’t get. Is it a rebuttal to the Saka hate, that we have to bring one down to lift up one of our own?
Fodens good but he's shit for england. I've a better feeling about palmer these last two games...has more to his game and better vision. Foden is capable of much more but he never reaches his heights internationally.
It's partly the Saka thing, and partly complete derangement to anything related to City
i just hate him because he looks like a character from trainspotting or a mike leigh movie. Also has a awful haircut
Yeah that haircut. Seriously, WTF? It’s not like you can’t afford more than a plastic bowl and a pair of scissors.
I actually like that he looks like a goon from a british crime procedural shows; I've seen him in Happy Valley stabbing a police officer
That’s fine, but let’s not lie about his abilities as a player. He’s fucking quality
What are his abilities?
Watch him, you’ll understand. If you don’t then I’m sorry this sport isn’t for you 👍🏻
That’s all I wanted to hear, thanks.
*sigh* Fine I’ll bite, and dumb it down for you a bit; one of the most technically gifted players England have, elite at literally everything you’d need in a midfielder in those advanced positions (vision, dribbling, tight spaces ball control, passing) and can slot in seamlessly in multiple positions upfront. But someone who has made his mind up because “muhhhh PR!!!!!” won’t be convinced otherwise so idc. Oh and the team that just finished above us’ second best player 👍🏻
The term “elite” is used to describe someone in the 90th percentile of everything they do compared to other players in same positions. You mentioned vision, dribbling, tight spaces ball control, and passing. Let’s break it down, shall we? 2023/24 season - Vision: Stats to look for - xA (expected assists), big chances created, and conversion rate; Foden xA was 5.59 compared to Saka’s xA of 8.84, 10 big chances created to Saka’s 15, and 22.92% conversion rate to Saka’s 27.66% 👍🏼 Dribbling: Stats to look for - Duels contested and take ons completed; Foden’s dual contested was 8.6 vs 12.8 for Saka, and 1.5 take ons completed vs 1.6 for Saka 👍🏼 Tight spaces ball control and Passing: Foden pass completion % was 89% compared to Saka’s 82% (keep in mind Foden starts games centrally as well where he is far more effective) 👍🏼 These are hardly elite numbers, especially considering Foden trails Saka in almost every metric for a player in their positions. See the great thing with eye test merchants is that eye test is subjective while stats are objective. And I’m not just using Saka to bash on Foden. I’m using Saka because he’s not in top 3 of our players of the season. Btw team accolades are hardly an argument for making one player better than the other; by that logic Scott Carson would be the goat of GKs. And as for Foden’s influence at Man City, he’s comfortably behind Rodri, Haaland, and KDB (accounting for minutes). The fact is that Foden is way overrated for what he brings to a team, and one look at the post-match thread from tonight’s game will make you realize that it’s not just Arsenal fans who share that sentiment. Sorry it got a bit lengthy and I tried my best to dumb it down for you but here’s a graphic just in case you needed further dumbing down. 👍🏼 https://preview.redd.it/hc60bjxb985d1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ac89a930a7d23f20100eb10c00ea4d2cd15cd04
Foden scored some bangers in a crucial games. That's about it, really. That's enough to get everyone on the hype train. My strongest memory of him this season was getting yanked after an anonymous showing when we went to Manchester. He was completely pocketed by White.
how was Saka today?
You reckon Saka has ever even twirl nite s. Twirl bites.
Are you having a stroke?
I didn’t mean to post that
😂 ok, I upvoted but would still like an explanation lmao.
A couple of people on the sub have already said this, but I think 3-2-4-1 is the way forward for England
I sincerely hope Southgate keeps starting Foden so the whole world gets to know just how overrated that PR merchant really is.
He’s good, but not as good as people think he is and he’s also not good at things that people think he’s good at.
He is an above average footballer for both club and country; good enough to make the squad but not good enough to impact on his own. His only decent trait is finishing; he’s just had the liberty of playing alongside some of the best creators in KDB, Bilva, etc. He had less goal involvements against the big 6 this past season than Saka, Palmer, and Gordon while trailing them in npxGI per 90. He’s done nothing noteworthy for England since breaking into the national team, and he’s two years older than Saka. https://preview.redd.it/m5cao0gnx75d1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4b073c35384622fa7a61a3278f4541f37cf28ce
England defence is so shaky Southgate may have to change the midfield set up and at the pace they're going Rice might end up at CB.
Foden never showing up for England, same old 🥱 In other news, anyone else but Saka at RW and the team simply doesn’t function, what a player we have
I don't know how Rice got the reputation that he can't progress and is purely a workhorse midfielder. Technically he's really good
please show me one example of someone saying that
Based on the post match threads the only reputation I’m seeing is that of Foden (6.6 on sofascore; lowest of any player on the pitch tonight) ghosting in an England shirt. It seems Rice had an ok game (7.7 on sofascore; highest among England) compared to rest of the team.
i didn’t see the game but don’t use things like sofascore it’s garbage for that
I think that's a gross misrepresentation of what people believe about his progression and the type of player he is.
Zubimendi links starting to be rekindled a bit by Spanish media and Fabrizio. I really hope he’s open to coming. I don’t think there’s better value to be had in the midfield than Zubimendi at his 60M release clause.
He will take a season or two to settle here. People expecting him to adjust to the physicality within a season's time will be left underwhelmed. Giving our timeline, Idk if it's the best bet.
Link?
https://www.teamtalk.com/arsenal/fabrizio-romano-talks-up-chances-brilliant-e60m-midfielder-deal-arteta-rules-out-everton-raid
Missing someone England?
In the pre-match press conference for Mexico x Brazil tomorrow, Martinelli just confirmed he will start.
Rice best player on the pitch and goals for Havertz and Trossard, we are eating already in this international break.
https://preview.redd.it/mo9iz4jcq75d1.png?width=589&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef6a4fd61b2a632ebf25a5f0e964ac34979dba13 Nazi Germany levels of propaganda bro
not a real account lmao
that’s a football twitter troll account, iirc it’s the same person who runs InvertTheWing
Taking sxne serious. Ultimate troll there is.
imagine how good saka and odegaard must be if they just had that season playing with such garbage progression (i don't think that's really Rice's strength but its not like it precludes other players from performing)
Anyone who thinks this didn't watch the game and is basing it purely off agendas
Doesn’t help that Arsenal fans act like Rice can’t progress the ball either and isn’t able to play 6 for us.
Are Man United really just trying to decide between ETH and Southgate?
I love both choices for them to be quite honest. Can't go wrong really.
Hopefully
we can only pray
If so, it's a tremendous gift.
Foden is a system player lucky he has Pep as his manager put Gio Reyna on this England squad and he’s cooking
19 goals from 10 xG isn't a gift from the system. Lot of it just was individual brilliance which ironically you think would translate to the national team. I rarely find anyone consistently elite in Southgate's system. Offensively, it's just not fluid enough and Foden does look lost. This is just the Golden Generation 2.0 but we look better because the quality of players in competing teams is worse other than France.
Gio Reyna una
Performs for a worse national team with an even worse manager
 Foden when opposing teams treat him like an important player instead of an afterthought
Pickford, Walker, Guehi, Stones, Shaw (if fit)/Trippier, Rice, Gallagher, Saka, Bellingham/Foden, Palmer/Foden, Kane
In 140 mins against Bosnia & Herzegovina and Iceland, Cole Palmer really showed why Saka should be benched for him.
Back to back England POTY placements and I still gotta hear about how the mouth breather should start over him. I can't man
Clear this England team needs more Ben White. Crazy there's a plug and play right hand side there ready to go, and they fucked it.
Yeah considering chemistry is so hard to come by with international sides it could have been massive.
Talking about White when Trent is right there lol
I'd play Trent next to Rice.
Trent is much better with the game in front of him at fullback. Wharton next to Rice for ball progression.
He needs the game in front of him but he also needs to be more central, and Southgate doesn't invert.
Does Trent play with Saka 3 times a week?
Trent is a far superior player who has experience playing with Saka for England, I would take him or Reece James if he was fit at RB over White every day of the week.
Isn't England's problem defense and White's primary advantage over Trent, being a stronger defender? I don't watch England or TAA, so I'm genuinely asking.
The defense is good enough, they can’t create anything a half decent team, especially one that sits back despite the surplus of attacking talent in almost every position. Also just shit football
Nothing about this England set up plays to Trents strengths. White would be much better than Trent as this team is currently set up.
Trent came on and created 3 chances in 25 minutes lmao
Chucking a cross every time you can isn't creation. I wish people could read beyond surface-level stats. There's intelligent play making and then there's that. Trent is capable of the former but rarely. He isn't an upgrade on White because the defence is weak and tournaments are won with a base of defence more often than not. White is more than capable of assisting the attack and if I'm not wrong had top 3 G/A for a full back this season in the Prem?
Are you actually trying to make the argument that Trent isn’t capable of anything but spamming crosses, in favor of Ben fucking White. Trent is arguably the most talented player in the entire squad. The defense is perfectly fine with a more defensive LB to balance Trent (such as Gomez, or Branthwaite who could have played that wide CB/ LB role very well) and the best defensive shield itw in Rice. White has become overrated fast, he’s a stripper 1v1. We saw him twerking for Garnacho 3 weeks ago ffs
And the score....?
Not his fault the team can’t finish, White can barely create 3 chances in 90 minutes
White also wouldn't lose possession 14 times in 25 minutes
🤷🏾♂️That’s what happens when you can actually create, rather than spam the same predictable, tired overlap then first time cross
International football is a fucking snore. Hopefully we go out early so rice and saka can get some rest
Anyone know how many (& which) seasons we went undefeated at home? And / Or How to find these kind of stats easily?
In the Premier League era, we've had 3 seasons unbeaten at home: 1998-99 2003-04 2007-08
Thanks, I appreciate that. Did you just know this from memory or was there somewhere you found that info?
Glad to help! I looked through the results for each season on wikipedia lol. Their results tables are easy to separate home and away and it's colour coded too, so no results in red means for the home column means no losses, and no results in blue in the away column means no losses as well
I'm jumping on the Wilson Odobert hype before he blows up. 19 yr old tidy attacker who can play all positions behind the striker and PL experienced. Could easily replace Nelsons spot in the squad.
I've changed my mind, Trent has to start at the Euros. Maybe play Walker against the likes of France, but not in the group
Foden is such a great player who for the first time in his career carried a team last season. But for England he has always been totally underwhelming, is he a system player?
If by carrying a team, you mean massively overperforming his xG while being an underwhelming playmaker, then yes.
Surely massively overperforming xG is a prime example of carrying you're team? Winning games for you're team that they don't necessarily deserve
Oh, I love xG overperformers. However, to describe them as the ones carrying the team, especially when they're not the striker, and Foden in particular whose narrative is that of the heir to KDB? The point is, I would not say Odegaard carried our team last season because of his goals, or that Trossard did it this season. To me carrying has the connotation of influence, being able to do it for the full 90 mins, game after game, and Rodri and Bernardo Silva fit that definition much better.
> To me carrying has the connotation of influence, being able to do it for the full 90 mins, game after game, and Rodri and Bernardo Silva fit that definition much better. The whole definition of a carry job is to affect the results of your team more than it would've been otherwise. And nothing does that more than scoring goals. City isn't just 1 player but there's a good argument to be made that Foden was the player that got City over the line offensively. 19 goals in 10 xG is the definition of a carry job because Foden affected their results positively when they possibly were struggling to get a result. Sure, he's not a Hazard but gimme a break with that definition. Had Saka done that for us, we'd be the PL winners right now and calling that a carry job.
Yeah I hear that too. Rodri was City's best and most important player for me
Very few attacking players look great in this Southgate side tbh. He's successfully stifled ALL of them
My Gordon, Palmer and Foden slander campaign got new juice
Foden PR hive is coming for ya 👊
Italy have Spalletti, Germany have Nagelsmann. We’re going into the euros with Southgate. The FA are a laughable institution
The manager of England's prior experience was relegating Boro
And getting the job after crashing the England U21s out of the group at the Euros
What a joke 😂
Shout out to the England fan wearing the Ødegaard shirt 🫡
Southgate handicapped himself with his squad selection. What’s the point of calling up so many no 10s when you play a double pivot? Minimal transitional threat in this squad, and little penetration in the wide areas.
Not watching, but England being the bookmaker’s favourite to win the Euros with that defence is funny.
Not sure anyone cares rn but saw adidas' website is having a sale, authentic nuclear zebra shirt was only $65 including shipping
Palmer when he has to play against a team that is defending and not giving him acres of space...
Foden was worse tbh. Palmer at least should have had an assist. I'd honestly consider Palmer at the 10 and bench foden.
Not watching, how many nutmegs has he done?
People who wanted Toney for this team should get a trial
Generational Phillip Walter Foden showing up for England again Gary Neville sabotages Man U with his influence and the same for England. All this talk of Foden has to have the team built around him only for him to be anonymous every time
Dec wearing the armband. Can’t remember the last time we had an England captain on the pitch. Sol Campbell?
Sol Campbell Keown Seamen
My king
Arrest Southgate if Trent doesn’t start in the euros
He’d rather start the corpse of Walker or an out of form Trippier instead. Clown
Missing out on Sesko will be a blessing in disguise if it means Havertz gets a full season at 9. Winger and midfielder is what we need, none of this Havertz at LCM garbage.
No, it wouldnt be
We cannot go through this again bruh. Let’s just sign a striker
It will be a disaster let alone blessing in disguise if we don't get a striker. Havertz has had a good half season where he played striker which may well continue into next season but it would be naive to go into the season with Jesus or Trossard as our second choice striker. Sesko is a must, if not him then another striker
>would be naive to go into the season with Jesus or Trossard as our second choice striker Nah, this is too far lol. Jesus is unreal if he stays fit, and Trossard is more than capable.
Feel bad for celebrating a Germany goal but lfg Kai
The fuck are these crosses.
Rice putting in a shift. Everyone else looks like a “lights on but no one home” type situation
I know Foden is better than Palmer but the two of them clearly benefit from the system their clubs play. Palmer obviously isn't anywhere near world class but the fact Foden apparently is sums up how little that label means anymore.
What Foden is actually capable of is so different to how he’s perceived.
He's a support player and needs more decisive players around him to take responsibility. It's mental that he got player of the season btw. EDIT: Rice has done more playmaking than him tonight, which isn't his job
“Red Cartel” when City and Chelsea have won 11 of the last 15 league titles
Kane playing CDM is a difficult watch. He's the most complete striker in the world and yet he's on the halfway line pinging diagonals
Someone has to progress the ball to the runners. Wharton, TAA, or one of them should be on the pitch.
He always drops deep, that’s his game. the problem is that there’s no one to get on the end of it apart from Gordon
He always drops deep?
Maybe now people will realise that International football is different to club football. Saka is so important for England
Arsenal fans and the challenge of not shit on a dropped player (100% impossible, they lost at the first second)
Life without Bukayo. Grim
A Saka screamer in the second half will send me to the moon.
no saka no party
Where can I watch the england game in the US?
Ramsdale has only played one game in the past few months, and yes, he made a mistake. But why is everyone overreacting as if he's a bad keeper? He was excellent for us for two years, and no one on this subreddit was saying we needed a new keeper when Raya joined. Also it wasn't a terrible mistake. I have seen world class keepers make worse mistakes.
> ...why is everyone overreacting as if he's a bad keeper? I'm really not seeing anyone do that, let alone 'everyone'. Maybe I missed it. Raya is clear, that's all. > ...no one on this subreddit was saying we needed a new keeper when Raya joined. I said on the day Ramsdale signed that I was concerned he would only be as much of an improvement on Leno as Leno was on Cech before him: that is, an improvement, but not enough, and ultimately leaving us wanting. I know this because some absolute weapon tried to drag that comment up later, not long ago, as 'receipts' of my alleged 'rAmSdAlE hAtE'. This was especially funny because I had been, at the time, wearing a 'Leno: The Professional' flair, so I clearly thought comparing him to Leno was at least a little flattering. It was even funnier because I had gone on to give Ramsdale a great deal of credit for the improvement he made in his early time with Inaki and Arteta. But, ultimately, he did not continue improving, nor improve enough overall, to put him clear of Raya, and back we went, as I expected we would. It was an obvious place for improvement the season before last. > Also it wasn't a terrible mistake. I have seen world class keepers make worse mistakes. Of course. Ederson, Alisson, and even Neuer make mistakes: we saw an horrific one from Neuer in the CL this year. The problem is that Ramsdale doesn't offer enough in compensation for his mistakes, let alone for his limitations.
its a mistake he makes regularly, so not really a random one off mistake, thats just who he is as a keeper, he gives up goals at the near post very often. Also was not excellent for 2 years
I think he just pissed a lot of fans off with his performances in the 22/23 run-in, and then his podcast appearances were also subsequently embarrassing. How can you be a serious outfit when your goalkeeper is admitting he struggles focusing in games?
It's not solely his fault that we lost the title in 22/23. it was because of mistakes made by everyone. Saka missed the penalty against West Ham, and we were terrible against City, Brighton, and Nottingham Forest. The Southampton game was a draw due to his error, but he also secured us a draw against Liverpool. I like Raya and believe he's the better goalkeeper, but I don't understand the hate towards Ramsdale.
isnt people always talking about mental health and its importance? Like, i wanted Ramsdale out since early in the preseason and i was livid that we couldnt sell him once we got Raya but lets not start to just downplay like he never do anything for the club