This split is way over complicated. Upper body day is pointless because each muscle doesn't get enough attention. Shoulders, triceps, and biceps are secondary muscles that don't need an entire session for optimal work. You're missing out with gains on chest and back day because you aren't isolating work on secondary muscles that are already being incorporated. Also, don't skip legs lmfao. Finally, I wouldn't tie your session to a day of the week but just do them in sequential order. That way if you miss a session you aren't completely skipping that muscle group that week.
Here's a good routine to use instead
Day 1: Chest and shoulders
Day 2: Back and rear delt
Day 3: Biceps and triceps
Day 4: Quads, Hamstrings, and calves
And you just cycle through that order as you do them. This routine is optimal because it allows you to work complimentary muscles while ensuring each muscle is getting enough attention.
For sets, I would just recommend doing 8 total sets (varying exercises) per muscle group, per session with each rep range being to failure. For example, day 1, 8 total sets till failure chest and 8 total sets till failure shoulders.
Don't worry I'm not skipping legs I just don't need any help with that. I do what you said to do. I like doing every muscle group twice a week as well but if what you say is better then i'll give it ago this week. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
I reply only to correct that actually the upper body/lower body split is better for hypertrophy too.
Between doing 25 sets in one day and doing 12 and 12 in two differents days in a week, the second option will give more results.
Anyways beginners improve with anything, for them everything is a stimulus to grow
Disagree. Yes, anything will lead to improvement but that doesn't mean it's the most efficient. Upper/Lower is fine for someone who is looking for general fitness but it is not optimal for anyone who wants to see significant development in muscle mass.
This is the common idea in bodybuilding but actually it s wrong.
You confusing the fatigue (what you call attention) with the hypertrophy stimulus.
What really count are the total weekly sets, but there other important factors.
Multifrequency(2 upper body days a week for example, include 2 times chest for example, 12 and 12 sets) is better than monofrequency (for example chest only once a week, 25 sets).
Main reason is the protein synthesis, it lasts about 72 h. So waiting a full week it too much rest time.
Instead Doing chest twice a week will have more results in this example.
Second reason is the form and technique.
In multifreq you have better quality reps.
But remember that beginners improve with everything.
The intermediates and advanceds instead to progress (natural) need a strenght progression too. And strenght requires quality reps, low number reps.
So it can be the third reason.
PPL 6 days a week are considered good.
But monofrequency no.
Did you even read my suggested routine? I suggested a 4 days split, meaning you are hitting a muscle group twice every 1.14 week, which is multi frequency and adheres to the 72 hour rule.
You suggest doing 12 and 12 is better than 25 once a week, and I agree. But if you actually read his routine you would see that he has 5 muscle groups slated on the upper body days. To your logic, are you suggesting that 60 sets (12 per muscle group) in one day is feasible? No way in hell those would be good quality reps that will lead to growth, especially for a beginner. For the sake of your argument, let's say they are all 60 good sets, this argument is contradictory to your 72hr rule. If you are hitting all those muscles, you aren't getting 72hr between the next three days.
To your last point, I will reiterate for the 3rd time, just because anything will lead to improvement, doesn't mean it is the optimal way to do it.
Finally, your completely overlooking the fact that biceps, triceps, and shoulders are secondary muscles and do not need as much work as primary muscles for optimal improvement. Therefore having them on their own day is a waste of time.
No dont take 12 as a real numbers.
25 and 12 are numbers used for the example purpose.
I divide Upper body day into:
Vertical push, vertical pull, horizontal push, horizontal pull, then one or two isolation.
Balanced and complete.
I dont agree with these shitty old bodybuilders style programs with an "arms day".
Training always everything to fatigue is a shitty workout.
PPL 6 A WEEK as like ULUL 4 a week or 5 or 6 with full body days, too. They are programs with I can agree.
But not these bodybuilding old programs.
But remember that it is a worlwide debate, too. There are too different opinions.
I've been doing this workout for 2 weeks now and I was wondering if I could group the Day 1 workout with rear delts and then have Day 3 workout with Back and add an extra leg day?
I would say you could as long as your still giving each muscle group enough attention. The issue with doing too many groups In one day is they just won't get as much attention as if they were isolated on another day.
This split is way over complicated. Upper body day is pointless because each muscle doesn't get enough attention. Shoulders, triceps, and biceps are secondary muscles that don't need an entire session for optimal work. You're missing out with gains on chest and back day because you aren't isolating work on secondary muscles that are already being incorporated. Also, don't skip legs lmfao. Finally, I wouldn't tie your session to a day of the week but just do them in sequential order. That way if you miss a session you aren't completely skipping that muscle group that week. Here's a good routine to use instead Day 1: Chest and shoulders Day 2: Back and rear delt Day 3: Biceps and triceps Day 4: Quads, Hamstrings, and calves And you just cycle through that order as you do them. This routine is optimal because it allows you to work complimentary muscles while ensuring each muscle is getting enough attention. For sets, I would just recommend doing 8 total sets (varying exercises) per muscle group, per session with each rep range being to failure. For example, day 1, 8 total sets till failure chest and 8 total sets till failure shoulders.
Don't worry I'm not skipping legs I just don't need any help with that. I do what you said to do. I like doing every muscle group twice a week as well but if what you say is better then i'll give it ago this week. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
I reply only to correct that actually the upper body/lower body split is better for hypertrophy too. Between doing 25 sets in one day and doing 12 and 12 in two differents days in a week, the second option will give more results. Anyways beginners improve with anything, for them everything is a stimulus to grow
Disagree. Yes, anything will lead to improvement but that doesn't mean it's the most efficient. Upper/Lower is fine for someone who is looking for general fitness but it is not optimal for anyone who wants to see significant development in muscle mass.
This is the common idea in bodybuilding but actually it s wrong. You confusing the fatigue (what you call attention) with the hypertrophy stimulus. What really count are the total weekly sets, but there other important factors. Multifrequency(2 upper body days a week for example, include 2 times chest for example, 12 and 12 sets) is better than monofrequency (for example chest only once a week, 25 sets). Main reason is the protein synthesis, it lasts about 72 h. So waiting a full week it too much rest time. Instead Doing chest twice a week will have more results in this example. Second reason is the form and technique. In multifreq you have better quality reps. But remember that beginners improve with everything. The intermediates and advanceds instead to progress (natural) need a strenght progression too. And strenght requires quality reps, low number reps. So it can be the third reason. PPL 6 days a week are considered good. But monofrequency no.
Did you even read my suggested routine? I suggested a 4 days split, meaning you are hitting a muscle group twice every 1.14 week, which is multi frequency and adheres to the 72 hour rule. You suggest doing 12 and 12 is better than 25 once a week, and I agree. But if you actually read his routine you would see that he has 5 muscle groups slated on the upper body days. To your logic, are you suggesting that 60 sets (12 per muscle group) in one day is feasible? No way in hell those would be good quality reps that will lead to growth, especially for a beginner. For the sake of your argument, let's say they are all 60 good sets, this argument is contradictory to your 72hr rule. If you are hitting all those muscles, you aren't getting 72hr between the next three days. To your last point, I will reiterate for the 3rd time, just because anything will lead to improvement, doesn't mean it is the optimal way to do it. Finally, your completely overlooking the fact that biceps, triceps, and shoulders are secondary muscles and do not need as much work as primary muscles for optimal improvement. Therefore having them on their own day is a waste of time.
No dont take 12 as a real numbers. 25 and 12 are numbers used for the example purpose. I divide Upper body day into: Vertical push, vertical pull, horizontal push, horizontal pull, then one or two isolation. Balanced and complete. I dont agree with these shitty old bodybuilders style programs with an "arms day". Training always everything to fatigue is a shitty workout. PPL 6 A WEEK as like ULUL 4 a week or 5 or 6 with full body days, too. They are programs with I can agree. But not these bodybuilding old programs. But remember that it is a worlwide debate, too. There are too different opinions.
I've been doing this workout for 2 weeks now and I was wondering if I could group the Day 1 workout with rear delts and then have Day 3 workout with Back and add an extra leg day?
I would say you could as long as your still giving each muscle group enough attention. The issue with doing too many groups In one day is they just won't get as much attention as if they were isolated on another day.