Lol and because it has come into relevancy yet again, let's remember the time the US left Danell off the team initially in 2016 and were forced to sub him in, only for him to be the most successful of the bunch
I agree. I love Danell. I was heated when they left him off in 2016 because of the dog bite injuries. He wasn't the best at trials but proved himself prior to that. Every time I rewatch those games, I want to gloat. He won 3/4 USA medals on the men's side in 2012 & 2016.
USAG was honoring the 1984 and 2004 team, Danell is not from these eras, I'm not sure there's more to read here (although he was treated poorly when he was competing, I agree).
I'd do the same as him, considering the stupid algorithm the selection commitee used, that doesn't take into account consistency at international meets. No offense to Stephen, but he hits pommels once in a blue moon at worlds. Asher is kinda inconsistent.
It makes sense but Yul and Khoi were inconsistent at Trials... I get the logic but the selection committee do have to look at what's available now as Alicia said, and not any hypotheticals to be fair to the athletes. Stephen is not a smart choice though, I hope he gets a 15+ in the team final please now that it's official
Right?! It's inconceivable to me that this algorithm would have zero consideration for international success. And that on the women's side they'd give substantially more weight to these recent domestic comps than to last year's international results. International success under pressure is SO hard and should be a key consideration
My understanding of Chellsie and Alicia is that they take into account past international experiences in some measure. Martha was horrible, but that she understood international experience mattered.
Oh, okay. Based on quotes I'd seen, they made it sound like they're only interested in what you're doing now, now what you've done previously, but I may have misinterpreted
My interpretation is that past performance definitely matters to them, but they won’t let it outweigh a gymnast’s current physical/mental state if she’s clearly not ready to train for/compete at the Olympics.
But it's the most recent worlds, not the most recent Olympics, or something. It's recent international success, which should be weighed as heavily as recent domestic success
Same. Especially since Khoi is the REIGNING SILVER MEDALIST ON POMMELS. (Emphasis because it's so insane they're leaving him home, not directed at you). They have a world class pommel horse right here, at home, with demonstrated international success, who also won a vault silver. It's insane. I would also probably sub in Yul for Asher due to recent worlds performance
An 11.6 is still higher than 0 on any other event. With Brody recovering from injury and Asher’s wild gymnastics they’re one bad landing away from having 3 gymnasts on 6 apparatuses, and two away from scratching team finals altogether.
Oh, he was awful the first night. I'm not pretending he was anything good. But he rebounded well night 2 and I think his international success and excellent all around ability to back up, plus Stephen's only doing one event, makes him the much more logical choice
Exactly, barring a major injury, imo, it should be a bit like figure skating, there should be at least one or two slots open imo for looking at an athlete's body of work and history.
Trials is not the only comp they use. They use both Champs and trials. Saying Yul and Khoi were inconsistent at trials but not saying that about Asher's terrible Champs and meh first day.
Plus, they just "plugged" a hole on the team in PH but now leaves a second hole on PH and holes on other events. Like, I know ya'll think this whole objective criteria is really objective but team building is not simply about numbers.
MAG fans have seen this same song and dance before. It didn't work last time.
Yeah, didn’t work for 2022 Worlds (5th). But not having a specialist worked for 2023 Worlds(3rd). Stephen seems like a nice guy. But if he doesn’t hit (which he now has even more pressure on him) or if one of the others gets hurt, it will be one of the stupidest decisions to make.
I’m truly happy for all of them, and I hope they all have the meet of their lives. It feels like they’re being set up to fail, that’s the part that’s hard!
Honestly I’d be surprised if he wants anything to do with USAG in any capacity again. Iirc he’s also spoken about his relationship with his coach and how it wasn’t all roses. It just kinda seems like some of the gymnastics days are not great memories for him
I had not noticed his absence on the scene. I mean I hadn't really seen many of them except Sam so it didn't seem off until you said something.
Speaking of this, do you guys think it is good to take Sam with us as a coach? I love Sam but he was the poster child for international meltdowns.
I actually think it could help the team spirit a lot to have Sam in Paris. Yul has been the team glue and hype man, and his absence will be felt.
Sam has made mistakes but he was a great team player and supporter.
Exactly this! Sam is great on team morale and support. Yul was that. Do they think Brody is going to be that instead? Hopefully Sam can be there as coach.
Sam has a weird reputation going on, people either see him like a god who could beat Kohei, or they see him like a total flop....
I don't have the data, but I feel like Sam usually hit for the team and made major mistakes for his individual EF.
And the guys seem to genuinely like to have him around, so I would bring him as a coach/ team cheerleader.
I always liked Sam. I think his potential was greater than how he often performed on the big stage. He was often 4th/5th though which is very respectable. I remember the vault final in London where he was ecstatic being around the greats and even was cheering them on as their scores surpassed his and he didn’t medal. He just has a nice positive energy around him.
"International meltdowns"...as in you think they're gonna put Coach Sam up on high bar in TF??? Sam's competition record has nothing to do with his coaching skills. The USOPC clearly thinks he's a good enough coach to be working with the national team and coaching on the floor at trials, so it appears that he's perfectly fine to be an Olympic coach if he's the best man for the job.
That’s super unfair and mean to say he’s not a good idea to be the team coach because of his intl record.
Sometimes I think this community has blinders on to men’s mental health. We give everyone all their due grace but Sam still gets ragged on and people still question his constantly being put on teams.
Y’all think he doesn’t read that stuff and know people were saying? The fact he has come through his career as he has, with a positive mindset and desire to motivate and coach the next generation is a testament to who he is.
Sam’s record is what it is. Let’s not pre-judge his coaching style or record based on that.
I'm not at all blind to men's mental health. In fact, I was just praising Shane for his stance on taking a break to process his grief and I was concerned that Khoi didn't have a chance to process either before being thrust out there again.
That doesn't change that Sam was not good under pressure and that the whole US MAG culture he was a part of is what we are trying to get away from. I don't think that is unfair to say nor is it mean. It's just not want some people want to hear.
Someone else literally brought up how Sam as a coach can bring the enthusiasm and energy to the team based on his previous role and personality and how that will be good for the team without Yul being there. I agree. I'm sure you would have had no problem with that statement.
Yet, you are upset that I am also using his previous experience as a gymnast to express concerns. Now, that is somehow a problem. I don't think he will be good because he doesn't know how to coach them through moments since he was not successful in dealing with that himself. Not once, not twice, but many times. I love Sam the person but I don't want him near this team. I don't care how it sounds.
Gym fans have to stop trying to always be the all hearts and smiles brigade only wanting people to say things that have positive slants.
I genuinely struggle with the selection and criteria for MAG. It’s of my firm opinion that the way they select the gymnasts is why we haven’t had a decently strong showing at any Olympics aside from Danell and Jonathan Horton in recent years.
What you said doesn’t make sense since this is the first time they’ve implemented this selection criteria. The whole purpose behind implementing a fully systematic process was to address previous biases that come with a discretionary method.
Lol and because it has come into relevancy yet again, let's remember the time the US left Danell off the team initially in 2016 and were forced to sub him in, only for him to be the most successful of the bunch
He did get left off for a crazy reason. His new dog bit him a few times so he was weaker and underperformed at trials.
Proving their little algorithm may not be the solution. 😉
They didn’t use an algorithm in 2016.
I agree. I love Danell. I was heated when they left him off in 2016 because of the dog bite injuries. He wasn't the best at trials but proved himself prior to that. Every time I rewatch those games, I want to gloat. He won 3/4 USA medals on the men's side in 2012 & 2016.
USAG was honoring the 1984 and 2004 team, Danell is not from these eras, I'm not sure there's more to read here (although he was treated poorly when he was competing, I agree).
Orozco was mentioned.
I'd do the same as him, considering the stupid algorithm the selection commitee used, that doesn't take into account consistency at international meets. No offense to Stephen, but he hits pommels once in a blue moon at worlds. Asher is kinda inconsistent.
It makes sense but Yul and Khoi were inconsistent at Trials... I get the logic but the selection committee do have to look at what's available now as Alicia said, and not any hypotheticals to be fair to the athletes. Stephen is not a smart choice though, I hope he gets a 15+ in the team final please now that it's official
Gabby was inconsistent at 2016 trials and ended hitting in tf and qualification.
Yul is usually consistent at international meets.
Right?! It's inconceivable to me that this algorithm would have zero consideration for international success. And that on the women's side they'd give substantially more weight to these recent domestic comps than to last year's international results. International success under pressure is SO hard and should be a key consideration
My understanding of Chellsie and Alicia is that they take into account past international experiences in some measure. Martha was horrible, but that she understood international experience mattered.
Oh, okay. Based on quotes I'd seen, they made it sound like they're only interested in what you're doing now, now what you've done previously, but I may have misinterpreted
My interpretation is that past performance definitely matters to them, but they won’t let it outweigh a gymnast’s current physical/mental state if she’s clearly not ready to train for/compete at the Olympics.
I don't think it makes sense.
Team also tends to perform better with him on it too.
But it's the most recent worlds, not the most recent Olympics, or something. It's recent international success, which should be weighed as heavily as recent domestic success
That's fair. I would put Yul/Khoi on the team over Stephen personally
Same. Especially since Khoi is the REIGNING SILVER MEDALIST ON POMMELS. (Emphasis because it's so insane they're leaving him home, not directed at you). They have a world class pommel horse right here, at home, with demonstrated international success, who also won a vault silver. It's insane. I would also probably sub in Yul for Asher due to recent worlds performance
Khoi scored an 11 on pommels at Olympic trials. Please be for real right now.
An 11.6 is still higher than 0 on any other event. With Brody recovering from injury and Asher’s wild gymnastics they’re one bad landing away from having 3 gymnasts on 6 apparatuses, and two away from scratching team finals altogether.
Oh my god...
Oh, he was awful the first night. I'm not pretending he was anything good. But he rebounded well night 2 and I think his international success and excellent all around ability to back up, plus Stephen's only doing one event, makes him the much more logical choice
He also had a 12.6 the first night of trials (edit: nationals, sorry). You can’t take someone for an event where they have a 50% hit rate, sorry.
Exactly, barring a major injury, imo, it should be a bit like figure skating, there should be at least one or two slots open imo for looking at an athlete's body of work and history.
Trials is not the only comp they use. They use both Champs and trials. Saying Yul and Khoi were inconsistent at trials but not saying that about Asher's terrible Champs and meh first day. Plus, they just "plugged" a hole on the team in PH but now leaves a second hole on PH and holes on other events. Like, I know ya'll think this whole objective criteria is really objective but team building is not simply about numbers. MAG fans have seen this same song and dance before. It didn't work last time.
Yeah, didn’t work for 2022 Worlds (5th). But not having a specialist worked for 2023 Worlds(3rd). Stephen seems like a nice guy. But if he doesn’t hit (which he now has even more pressure on him) or if one of the others gets hurt, it will be one of the stupidest decisions to make.
🎶I think I’m seen this film before🎶
LOL. UGH. I have to laugh to keep from crying. This is World's 2022 all over again. Almost the same team with Asher, Brody and Stephen.
I’m truly happy for all of them, and I hope they all have the meet of their lives. It feels like they’re being set up to fail, that’s the part that’s hard!
I still find it crazy that I competed against Danell when I was a gymnast. I was floored seeing that he became an Olympian!
MAG is such a small world. I saw several of the guys at trials compete as juniors.
Honestly I’d be surprised if he wants anything to do with USAG in any capacity again. Iirc he’s also spoken about his relationship with his coach and how it wasn’t all roses. It just kinda seems like some of the gymnastics days are not great memories for him
Asher has not shown to be exceptional internationally. I’m worried about him.
I had not noticed his absence on the scene. I mean I hadn't really seen many of them except Sam so it didn't seem off until you said something. Speaking of this, do you guys think it is good to take Sam with us as a coach? I love Sam but he was the poster child for international meltdowns.
I actually think it could help the team spirit a lot to have Sam in Paris. Yul has been the team glue and hype man, and his absence will be felt. Sam has made mistakes but he was a great team player and supporter.
Exactly this! Sam is great on team morale and support. Yul was that. Do they think Brody is going to be that instead? Hopefully Sam can be there as coach.
Sam has a weird reputation going on, people either see him like a god who could beat Kohei, or they see him like a total flop.... I don't have the data, but I feel like Sam usually hit for the team and made major mistakes for his individual EF. And the guys seem to genuinely like to have him around, so I would bring him as a coach/ team cheerleader.
I always liked Sam. I think his potential was greater than how he often performed on the big stage. He was often 4th/5th though which is very respectable. I remember the vault final in London where he was ecstatic being around the greats and even was cheering them on as their scores surpassed his and he didn’t medal. He just has a nice positive energy around him.
I still feel for him in the 2016 floor final. He had a great chance to medal and the crowd was not on his side and it flustered him.
Oh that’s right!
"International meltdowns"...as in you think they're gonna put Coach Sam up on high bar in TF??? Sam's competition record has nothing to do with his coaching skills. The USOPC clearly thinks he's a good enough coach to be working with the national team and coaching on the floor at trials, so it appears that he's perfectly fine to be an Olympic coach if he's the best man for the job.
That’s super unfair and mean to say he’s not a good idea to be the team coach because of his intl record. Sometimes I think this community has blinders on to men’s mental health. We give everyone all their due grace but Sam still gets ragged on and people still question his constantly being put on teams. Y’all think he doesn’t read that stuff and know people were saying? The fact he has come through his career as he has, with a positive mindset and desire to motivate and coach the next generation is a testament to who he is. Sam’s record is what it is. Let’s not pre-judge his coaching style or record based on that.
I'm not at all blind to men's mental health. In fact, I was just praising Shane for his stance on taking a break to process his grief and I was concerned that Khoi didn't have a chance to process either before being thrust out there again. That doesn't change that Sam was not good under pressure and that the whole US MAG culture he was a part of is what we are trying to get away from. I don't think that is unfair to say nor is it mean. It's just not want some people want to hear. Someone else literally brought up how Sam as a coach can bring the enthusiasm and energy to the team based on his previous role and personality and how that will be good for the team without Yul being there. I agree. I'm sure you would have had no problem with that statement. Yet, you are upset that I am also using his previous experience as a gymnast to express concerns. Now, that is somehow a problem. I don't think he will be good because he doesn't know how to coach them through moments since he was not successful in dealing with that himself. Not once, not twice, but many times. I love Sam the person but I don't want him near this team. I don't care how it sounds. Gym fans have to stop trying to always be the all hearts and smiles brigade only wanting people to say things that have positive slants.
Yuan Xiao should be the team's head coach.
Hopefully he is but I heard they want Sam there and I wouldn’t want that at all.
I genuinely struggle with the selection and criteria for MAG. It’s of my firm opinion that the way they select the gymnasts is why we haven’t had a decently strong showing at any Olympics aside from Danell and Jonathan Horton in recent years.
What you said doesn’t make sense since this is the first time they’ve implemented this selection criteria. The whole purpose behind implementing a fully systematic process was to address previous biases that come with a discretionary method.