Yeah, he might have pulled a tokugawa and retired after a few years to ensure a clean and clear transfer of power, rather than farting around and risking one of the warlord chief hunters seizing power after his death.
I mean, it is called the collective now. It has been since the end of NoP 1. Even if Isif could not turn the Arxur state into a full liberal democracy, I am sure he would have left some mechanism allowing for peaceful transfer of power. Hopefully.
And it doesn’t have to be that way.
Personally I’d love it from a lore perspective if Isif went after a form of Stalinism (with mechanisms for liberalization later): retain the powerful government and personality cult needed to control the brainwashed power-respecting arxur, but with an at least more positive goal than fascism.
It’d be a fascinating thing to explore from a story perspective!
How the arxur are shifting from evil totalitarianism. Do they use a more benevolent totalitarianism instead? Basically anything would be an improvement over Betterment anyhow. But breaking those habits would be important. Even revolutionaries advocating for dictatorships (“dictatorship of the proletariat”) tend to agree that at some point the authoritarianism should end, just the mechanisms and the “when” that vary.
Besides, I’d kill to see some fanart of Isif with a Stalin moustache lmao.
Ehh I just think the USSR is fascinating. Not very knowledgeable, though. I'm just another moron on the internet.
Still, while it'd never happen in this story, mix in those challenges with a closer look at the moral relativism of it all (it is not some moral imperative to always revert to liberal democracies, or else be instantly evil and oppressive by default).
The "Collective" part of "Arxur Collective" first gave me this (completely not going to happen) "headcanon", for lack of a better word.
Or you're just talking about the moustache, in which case yes, of course I get it. I'm a genius!
> it is not some moral imperative to always revert to liberal democracies, or else be instantly evil and oppressive by default
Case in point Saddam Hussein. He was an evil dictator who tortured and murdered people, but Iraq under his rule was objectively less bad in every single way than it is right now under ~~Taliban~~ Al Qaeda rule.
Except it has to.. that’s the whole point of a purge especially in government, it has to be through a strong man figure or a more organized/centralized group within government with authority
No such thing as Stalinism, that was Stalin taking a more centralized approach to socialism through Lenin’s actions and teachings with a more materialistic and pragmatic approach than a idealistic one.
I really can't follow a discussion into theory. While I think the USSR and associated topics are incredibly interesting, I'm hardly knowledgeable.
I'm mostly referring to the strong state, cult of personality, and pursuit of communism/collectivism.
For the “cult of personality” I ask that you look up videos or recorded letters of how Stalin tried to leave office 4 times but the politburo just kept electing again every time. Pretty interesting
Googled that.
Opinion of others on this website, one that I find highly believable, is that is was just political theatre.
Who on Earth *wouldn’t* ask for Stalin to stay if asking him to leave put a target on one’s back?
I’m generally sympathetic to the ideology of the USSR, and think it gets something of a bad rap, but I have no affection for Stalin as a person. His leadership quality has more room for debate, but he was in no terms a good person and that whole resignation thing sounds precisely like another scheme to advance the cult of personality and loyalty towards his person.
Fascism isn't a goal, it's a method, a form of government and economic organization. Stalinism in the real world was actually orders of magnitude worse than fascism. Mussolini was a bad person but he's got nothing on National Socialism and Soviet Socialism in terms of human rights violations.
Where did I say it wasn't? What I disputed was this:
> but with an at least more positive goal than fascism.
Fascism isn't an end-goal any more than National, Soviet, or "With Chinese Characteristics" Socialism. They're just different variations on authoritarian collectivism. In fact in actual real world practice the only meaningful difference is the political convenience of the subject to the speaker. Something is socialism when it's convenient to the speaker and fascism otherwise.
Not quite?
Fascism requires a strong nationalist aspect, and as far as I’m aware the economics are out of nationalist convenience I.e. whatever is considered best for the nation, or so I’ve heard.
Socialism, at least assuming it isn’t a warped form like Stalinism, is more rigid and doesn’t necessarily include nationalism as a must-have requirement. In fact, it works against it.
Socialist systems, and I mean *Socialist* socialist, aim to create communism. AFAIK fascism basically just wants its specific national group to thrive above all others.
> Socialist systems, and I mean Socialist socialist, aim to create communism
Socialism always gets special treatment, it's the only ideology that people insist on judging according to its own claims about itself rather than anything else.
If you give fascism the same special treatment then it's not just "evil people who hate everyone else" but "a system where all parts of society and the economy are centrally controlled and working towards a common goal in national unity".
This is of course completely different than socialism, which is a system where all parts of society and the economy are centrally controlled and working towards a common goal in national unity.
Which is why I said earlier that the *practical* difference between fascism and socialism in the real world is the political needs of the speaker.
Another way to look at this is that Fascism is socialism without the pseudo-religious belief that a messianic utopian era will come about if people just believe hard enough and burn all the ~~witches and devil worshippers~~ counterrevolutionaries and reactionaries.
I sure as shit hope the Arxur Collective didn't go to something as unstable&prone to Fascism as a Liberal Democracy. Especially if said Liberal Democracy had Capitalism......that would really, really slow down their progress in moving past the nasty, horrific shit the Federation and Dominion did.
given how many warlord chief hunters there were, I think Tokugawa Ieyasu would be a better pick. Guy ended the sengoku jidai and ensured that the violence wouldn't restart after his death by abdicating to his heir before his health could decline.
Considering he was a chief hunter, and that's a pretty senior position, and he's been chief hunter for at least a while, he was probably 50+ by the time NoP started, which means he's pushing into his ~70s now
Good point.
Ages are hardly given out in general, though.
Chief Hunters probably also live a lot longer, so maybe it’s a bit less relative there, if you catch what I’m saying.
Yeah, a lifetime of decent nutrition and probably some of the best healthcare in the whole Dominion would probably give Isif quite some longevity. Not to mention chief hunters were chosen based on physical superiority
He was old enough that his body had trouble keeping up with that younger Chief Hunter he dueled
He won that fight with experience and cunning, not strength
This would make him at least middle aged
How does it sound oppressive??? If anything it sounds more egalitarian than anything but alas we will have to see and most likely will know by tomorrow
Also it’s a “collective” meaning that there is multiple voices or many steps to take to establish a plan of action or a next step. Not a one man party that cripples and dies like fascism/nazism when their leader dies. The Collective continues on.
Fascism focuses on unity through nationality, typically through ethnicity where the party prioritizes itself in their own minds and the peoples. With no regard for the “other” everyone must fall in line with party doctrine and customs. Emphasizing a U.S. vs them mentality by categorizing everyone else as below or inferior to them. Socialism is the opposite you are not very well versed in theory either it seems
That's ethno fascism, fascism in general only refers to a group of any kind.
That whole "monkey strong together" idea. Since this always ends in a "us vs them" mentality (especially in times of war and crisis) it always has a distegard for others at some point.
Socialism is defacto a form of fascism. It's not ethnocentric, it's ideocentric.
If you're not a Socialist you're "one of them" witch was justification for every socialistic regeme to put you in jail, deport you, stuff you in work camps or straight up shoot you.
Excited too see our favorite marsupial as well.
I don't think Isif was sure he would survive the war, but he got the chance to start rebuilding Arxur society. Since Kaisal is in charge I imagine things went relatively well. Whether he's dead or retired, he had a damn good run - Curious to see what the Arxur that came after him have done now.
I'm pretty sure it just mentions him by name, not by position. But with how things were when book 1 ended, I imagine Isif has to spend all of his time keeping a bunch of crocodiles with starships from going back to the good old days and nomming those soft, tasty prey species.
Isn't that from Tassi's perspective though, not Onso's dialogue? AFAIK, she doesn't know who's who in the Arxur hierarchy. Also, even if Kaisal is *a* leader that doesn't mean he's *the* leader. Like how a general and a colonel are both leaders in the same army.
I mean, idk why you're asking; you can go back up and read it.
It's literally Onso saying "Their leader" in reference to the Arxur, not "their military leader" not their "leader on foreign policy" it's "Their leader" in reference to the species, with no clarifiers.
my bet is Isif pulled a George Washington and stayed in office long enough to get things settled and ready for the next person to take over (kaisel), then stepped down to set the precedent of peaceful transition of power
Either Isif is dead after de-Ginzelisationing everything, OR he only was in power for a peaceful transition of power to Kaisal and then he just retired.
Either way, the next person on my list that I’m concerned about (now with the reference of Kaisal) is Zhao. WHERES THAT OLD BUGGER!?
“Come on Zhao. We both know one call to my ARMADA and Betterment would have pinned another stupid metal to my scales.”
“Then why even bother with “dumb weak humans” at all then? Huh? Admit it! We had full control! You had no way out.”
“The only thing I’ll admit is that my glass is still empty, Zhao.”
Then both start laughing
“Drink up you weird Lizzard” as Zhao pours another round for Isif and himself.
“With pleasure you space primate.”
Prolly eating some rice and dumplings in his apartment in Neo Beijing, surrounded by his grandkids, dogs and hensas, with a three legged cat in his lap, gambling on horse races.
>OR he only was in power for a peaceful transition of power to Kaisal
This is exactly what I've been saying is a possibility. There's a decent chance that he pulled a card from Tokugawa Ieyasu and guaranteed that things would not devolve into chaos after his death by abdicating and ensuring that there was a clear transfer of power so that none of the power-hungry chief hunters could try to capitalize on the opportunity.
Although given the fact that he was mentioned to be on the older side, the jaslip lore doc's reveal that most sapient species have a similar lifespan (with the jaslips being the one outlier), and the fact that we're over 20 years later... odds are that he's passed already.
uff da, that’s depressing. Not lizard Khrushchev, that sucks if he is dead (or maybe genetic or artificial life extending tech has been developed in the 20 years)
The federation sympathizers are gonna lose their minds!
anti- carnivore factions: "hah with the yotuls support we will keep the meat eaters out of....
Bissem and Yotul: \*casualy release the Arxur
Anti- carnivore factions: "mortified screaming\*
Nearby Shield: "SHOOT THE SECRET STAR IMPLODER THE KOLSHIANS GAVE US AT WRISS'S SUN BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE"
\*_some rando small Federation has-been between Shield space and Wriss get accidentally targeted and wiped_\*
Shield: "FUCK"
Well, he was stated several times to be on the older side, so odds are that he's dead.
Eirher that or he pulled a tokugawa and retured to ensure a clean transfer of power.
I see what is happening here with respect to Yotul, humanity's demonstration of strength was great in the war (massive cyber attack, unequal fights that were won, obtaining allies with only politics even), and we did not lift the Geneva convention
We still struggle with that, they want more strength and power so they distance themselves from their first ally who did not discriminate and humiliate them, to now become real competition, I can't say if it's wrong or I guess it's politics.
But I am given to understand that Yotul wants to reach the top even higher than his biggest climb reached. Although it doesn't feel good to me, because the higher you climb, the more painful the fall will be.
Pd: long live Onso
I understand you perfectly, I couldn't help but jump for joy when Onso appeared, why does every species in this galaxy have to be so damaged and so selfish? The collective mental state of humanity is flogging my view
>he was a carefree islander that enjoyed riding waves on pristine beaches
Hmm, I wonder who is he...
>“Because I want you to do something for me when you get entrenched. I want you to lobby for the Arxur’s isolation to be lifted.”
Oooh.
>“Just hear out their story.
So perhaps?
>Their leader traveled for weeks to be here, and he’s waiting inside. Please, hear his story.
So PERHAPS?!
>you need to at least have a sit-down with Kaisal. Let him explain the damage the Federation did, and how the Arxur Collective is working to undo Betterment’s legacy.
So perhaps ANSWERS about the Collective?!!
>Now, I’ll be right back with a certain reptile. Stay put.
YES!! [FINALLY!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/NatureofPredators/comments/1c0pnno/nop2_ch_2627_finally_answers/) Answers on the bigest black box of the series!! News about the Arxur collective!!
Wow, that's a lot of news.
It's good to see that Onso is doing very well. Let's be honest, he's become a competent politician, and all the while maintaining his respectability, nice. Frankly, I wonder what the exact relationship is between the Yotuls and the Arxurs. Onso made an interested excuse, but I think it's a bit too much effort just for that, so I think they really want to help this race. In a others hand, sending a 'fuck you' to the Federation is undoubtedly a very strong motivation for Yotul.
Else, Kaisal? Leader of the Collective? Wow, that a bomb your drop. And a surprise. Even if Isif took him under his wings, he wasn't really well set for such a trajectory. High ranking military officer, yes, but political leader and face of the Collective? Very unexpected of his part. Well, that was 20 years ago and a lot can happen, so I can't wait to see what happened to our favorite grumpy scrawny. As well as what happened to one of NoP1's best characters in Isif's himself (Also, very personal curiosity about what happened to that Giznel piece of shit. Died slowly in this shit I hope)
Chapter 26! As word of the Starlight Incident reaches Leirn, Onso reaches out to offer his aid getting Bissems into the SC despite the Technocracy’s position; we see that our favorite Yotul has climbed the ranks, and he presents his species’ reasons for opposing uplifts to Tassi in a more favorite light. We learn that he has one condition for his aid, which is that the Bissems meet with the Arxur to consider lobbying for the end of their isolation. There’s also a bit of info about the Yotul opening an embassy on Wriss, and maintaining relations with the Collective.
What do you think of Onso’s motives, as well as the arguments he presented for the Yotul’s feelings on the entire uplift? Should the Bissems ally with the Arxur? What will Kaisal have to say for himself, and will Tassi warm to him at all?
As always, thank you for reading!
Honestly Onso's reasons for the Yotul reaction to the uplift are exactly what I expected. I think the Yotul should have thought more on the fact that the Bissem homeworld is facing ecological disaster, but their fears are entirely valid IMO.
As for lifting the blockade on the Arxur... It might be too soon for the galaxy, honestly. But it's not like these are ideal circumstances. The Yotul, ambitious little bastards that they are (love 'em to bits), see an opportunity for power, the Bissem need their help...
I'm curious to see what Kaisal has to say. Maybe Arxur society has cleaned up lot? I honestly don't know what the Arxur are like now. Curious to know how he took power, hopefully peacefully from Isif.
Also, happy to see Onso kept strong. And is still surfing. Sounds like he made quite a career for himself too.
Quick world building questions:
When using FTL, does the FTL drive propel the ship or do the regular engines need to be used?
When a ship drops out of FTL does it maintain the velocity it has going into FTL?
Does going into and out of FTL emit any notable signature besides the start and end of a subspace trail?
How long does a subspace trail stick around before it can no longer be detected?
Well, the subspace drive feels entirely seperate from the normal engines and can be used on otherwise short-range shuttles, so it probably doesn't need the normal engines.
There have also been statements that a ship's acceleration needs to be at zero (aka engunes off and coasting) for it to enter FTL
Yes. Humans used drones going at very high speeds exiting FTL in order to deorbit a moon.
And the answers to your last two questions are unknown.
Technically true ... however, the negative acceleration in stellar vacuum is ... minute at most. From my understanding it was negligible for the difference between the calculated path, and measured path, of the Voyager probes.
they're in space. no air resistance. even if a planet is pulling at them (which is unlikely as they need to be far from large sources of gravity. that's how the disruptors work), then the acceleration is far below what even the weakest thruster would be putting out.
there's probably a threshold at some level that basically means the engines need to be off.
A Technocracy as defined by Wikipedia does not preclude it from being a long term stable and well working method of governance. However, since it's a rule of a few over many, where those in power achieve their position through expertise and not popular support.
True. Both need different counters.
And it’s usually populism leading to oligarchies, rather than vice versa. Or, at least, *power* resting in oligarchies.
The lobbying can be done after being accepted, a sort of behind the scenes deal, it does put Onso's efforts at risk, but I think he is willing to accept it
Onso is being a complete hypocrite and asshole here. He's demonstrating exactly why he should *never* have been put in a leadership position. He's a great soldier and engineer but too devious and self centered to be a great leader. He demonstrated his worst traits in NoP1 but they were tempered by his trauma, lack of authority, and heroism in the war. In peacetime there is none of that to hide behind. Often people who are well suited for war aren't well suited for peace and that unfortunately seems to be the case with Onso.
First of all the entire argument about how 'things will never be your achievement again' is and always has been complete garbage. All societies have shared innovations and culture, it's literally how societies advance. The Yotul almost certainly had one person or group invent writing first for instance and then it spread from there. Now there may have been multiple groups inventing the same thing independently but the way society as a whole ended up with writing was by adopting it from others. That's just how culture works. That doesn't mean anything you then do with the ability to write is no longer your achievement. The Yotul are conflating oppressive colonialism deliberately destroying their culture with the natural sharing of ideas. The two are not only incomparable, with key elements being consent and choice, but it's actually xenophobic and potentially racist. Not good traits for a society claiming to want to partner with other species.
Onso is also doing the same thing, on an admittedly smaller scale, that he's criticizing. He's using his power to impose his will to shape a civilization just barely ready to reach out to space. His blackmail, abuse of authority, and out right corruption (and yes that's what it is, he's using his position to deliberately break the rules to bring Kaisel there and force this meeting) are horrible traits for someone in a position of power. It is grossly unfair and abusive to the Bissems to put them in this position and the fact the Yotul have *deliberately* made things harder for the Bissem only to later offer a 'solution' is nothing short of extortion.
Onso is demonstrating a stunning lack of care for how this will impact the Bissem. He's putting them in an impossible position to force them to back a controversial decision and help push through the acceptance of a relatively new government made up of some of the worst monsters the galaxy has ever seen. Even humanity wouldn't openly and unconditionally embrace the Axur because of how bad they were, the Bissem coming in and backing them would immediately put a target on their backs politically and risks fracturing the Sapient Coalition further along the 'predator'/'non-predator' lines. To say nothing of what it could do for the acceptance of any future carnivores/omnivores the coalition discovers. It is entirely reckless, dangerous, and harmful to the Bissem but he *knows* their choices are limited as their planet is literally dying. It's disgusting.
Onso was great in part one, a hero even, but given power he has become nothing short of a monster. Seeing what the Yotul have become it's very possible that Onso is going to make his fear about needing to be able to fight even humanity a reality. The Yotul aren't even being subtle in their manipulations so this is going to come to a head at some point. It also frankly just seems stupid. With all the species involved being against the Axur how are the Yotul and Bissem supposed to push their acceptance through? Even if they get humanity to side with them there's a reason the Axur weren't accepted in the first place and humanity going back on it's word so soon, because it is far too soon to claim Axur society has completely reformed, also risks fracturing the Sapient Coalition just on the grounds of eroding trust in humanity keeping to it's word. I'm afraid the Yotul are forcing humanity's hand here and it's going to lead to serious inner conflict. And the way the story is shaping up it's very likely right before the Sapient Coalition encounters another more technologically advanced oppressive government. Not that the Yotul would know that but their paranoia is so focused inward they're missing the forest for the trees here.
Agree, definitely on the idea sharing part.
They’re too busy seeing themselves as species and not one people that they compare themselves against their allies.
I’d argue that homogeneity is actually desirable here.
Feds don’t count tho since they *definitely* didn’t want people getting along with their stereotyping and mandatory specialization.
Anyways, the Nazis were first to space but the Soviets (literal sworn enemies) get and deserve the credit of being first to start space exploration.
What matters is who actually does stuff with discovery.
Am I losing my point? Probably. Idk.
It is important to empasize how Onso described the Axur: "they’d be loyal unconditionally if you help them". He's not only screwing the Bissems, he's trying to gain control over the Arxur by getting them out of isolation. It does not matter whether they are ready or not, how much they change means nothing. What is important to Onso is that he is old now and things must be done. Kaisal did not like humans 20 years ago. What are the chances that he warmed up to humanity? Earth put him in a bubble for all he cares. Yotul are seeking power and want to expand. And humanity is the main obstacle to whatever plan they have in mind. I'm not sure if I should start worrying or not. I do not see evidence of purposeful harm just yet but I do feel the smell of something cooking. If only Carlos was here. Onso demonstrated his manipulative tendencies during the war in the coffee incident, which he claimed was done for fun. It is always fascinating to see people change without really changing as the time goes by.
That's a really good example of just how self centered the Yotul, or at least Onso, have become. It's like their inferiority complex combined with their victories in the war have caused them to over correct and seek power without regard for ethics. I mean they even admit they're inflaming anti-predator racism not because they share that view but solely as a political tool, that's pretty horrible.
>Onso demonstrated his manipulative tendencies during the war in the coffee incident, which he claimed was done for fun.
To add to this not only did he do it but when he was confronted he doubled down and flat out refused to change because it got him what he wanted. So it's not like he had a bad habit he was unaware of or was willing to correct, he was confronted about how manipulative it was and his answer was basically "good, that's what I want". Which isn't a huge issue if you're just some comms tech following orders but becomes a major issue when someone gives you the level of power and influence he now wields.
Confirmation of a fair number of the theories I supported in this one,
I'm still wondering if Onso's attempts to get the Bissem's aid in ending the Arxur's isolation is a personal idea, in line with the SC's plans, or the Technocracy's backup plan if the Bissem uplift was unavoidable. The Bissem should maintain cordial relations with the Collective in any regard, allying themselves world be a bit premature at this point, but if the SC doesn't permit the Bissem membership then a relationship (trade/defense/etc) with an unaligned power like the Collective would be an option.
Looking forward to getting a peek inside the Collective and see how Arxur society has changed over the last generation. I wonder if we're going to be getting a new perspective for the next chapter.
“ There couldn’t have been enough changes in a few decades”
Oh Tassi shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the speed at which a culture can change. After all, the cultural transformation from Nazi Germany to West Germany was like night and day in an equally short amount of time.
Of course it helped that the allied nations were actively helping in rebuilding Germany into something its people could be proud of without the… unpleasant legacy. But the sentiment is still the same.
I mean, they could’ve done a better job of dealing with the Nazis.
But there’s only so much you can replace while retaining legitimacy.
That is, if you want to take an optimistic view of intent.
Siffy was already on the older side of the Arxur population by his intro in NoP1, being one of the oldests Chiefs in activity.
Either he's gone gone, or gone retired to give way to his second in command (Kaisal) to ensure none of the psychopathic Chiefs would take advantage of his geriatric ass to usurp power through a honor battle or something.
I can’t wait for the Arxur to be an almost hyper-peaceful and borderline xenophillic species that is only being repressed by the paranoid and wholly unnecessary hatred of the other species.
I am hoping that Isif pulled a Washington, got things on what he felt was the right track and then despite people wanting him to be leader for life realized that a dictator was the last thing they needed and so stepped aside voicing his support for Kaisal and going off to retire somewhere with his good friend Felra coming to visit regularly.
Calling the Yotul immediately pre-uplift “medieval” seems like a manipulative miscommunication. I guess he corrected Tassi's taking that at face value by bringing up what their achievements were
Well, no. We hear it explicitly in the earlier chapters that they have algae blooms of orange algae that are a big problem
That'd be like us saying that the ocean being green is normal
Ah...
Good chapter. Pleasant to read after spending all morning getting deadnamed and misgendered at the mosque (because it's Rid and i couldn't avoid it).
Thank you for this wordsmith.
…
Okay, I just gotta say it.
Imagine you’re sitting at home reading the newest NoP chapter and something funny happens. You laugh a little and make a silly joke. Suddenly, one of the characters directly addresses you, personally, in a response.
Freaky, huh?
So anyways, imagine you’ve been passively observing the NoP subreddit for well over a year, checking frequently to at least pass by and read the title of every (non NSFW) post. Noting references, catching memes an debates, keeping mental notes on prominent users. Treating it as an extension of the story, essentially.
If you can see where I’m going with this, perhaps you see how surreal this is lmao.
Anyways silliness aside, no problem. Have a good one :)
Think back to the Onso we all know and love. He'd care more about spitting on the feds than any kind of trade deal,but he's clever enough to put that label on it.
I've finally caught to it. I've been reading since NOP chapter 1, nonstop.
I found this marvel a little late, but is was good not having to wait for new chapters.
It was a journey, from the initial setup, it seemed to be a little to overboard, with the reactions of the prey races to predators, but then was exposed as a Federation led mass manipulation the story really picked up.
Also the Arxur not being one dimensional monsters, all the nuances and complexities, as well as a diverse set of characters got me going.
My only complain is that the aliens don't feel _Alien_ enough.
If they just had a human skin, none of them would be at lost in a human world, appearance is the only alien thing about them.
The way they think and talk, it's all very much human-like. But they are fun characters, and fit the universe pretty well.
I'll be waiting for the coming chapters with excitement, I really enjoyed the story.
It got me through some tuff times.
Thanks a lot u/SpacePaladin for one more amazing Masterpiece.
Everyone is talking about Isif and Kaisal. But can we remember about baby Nulia and uncle Siffy?? I feel like their connection would have a play in upcoming events.
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* [The Nature of Predators 2-14](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b28bf7/the_nature_of_predators_214/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-13](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1aywvw1/the_nature_of_predators_213/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-12](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1awekyb/the_nature_of_predators_212/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-11](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1at46ck/the_nature_of_predators_211/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-10](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1aqp8ow/the_nature_of_predators_210/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-9](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1anit8y/the_nature_of_predators_29/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-8](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1al59w2/the_nature_of_predators_28/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-7](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1ahyjjv/the_nature_of_predators_27/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-6](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1afk5ne/the_nature_of_predators_26/)
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##ONSO! And also Kaisal. Who is now the arxur leader. Guess that means that Isif is dead. May he rest in peace.
Or retired. We know very little about what the dominion is like now, but it seems that’s about to change
Yeah, he might have pulled a tokugawa and retired after a few years to ensure a clean and clear transfer of power, rather than farting around and risking one of the warlord chief hunters seizing power after his death.
Isif was already getting on in years during the war. If he's not dead, he's geriatric.
I mean, it is called the collective now. It has been since the end of NoP 1. Even if Isif could not turn the Arxur state into a full liberal democracy, I am sure he would have left some mechanism allowing for peaceful transfer of power. Hopefully.
And it doesn’t have to be that way. Personally I’d love it from a lore perspective if Isif went after a form of Stalinism (with mechanisms for liberalization later): retain the powerful government and personality cult needed to control the brainwashed power-respecting arxur, but with an at least more positive goal than fascism.
I can see this too, i hope the purging of political rivals was not too totalitarian.
It’d be a fascinating thing to explore from a story perspective! How the arxur are shifting from evil totalitarianism. Do they use a more benevolent totalitarianism instead? Basically anything would be an improvement over Betterment anyhow. But breaking those habits would be important. Even revolutionaries advocating for dictatorships (“dictatorship of the proletariat”) tend to agree that at some point the authoritarianism should end, just the mechanisms and the “when” that vary. Besides, I’d kill to see some fanart of Isif with a Stalin moustache lmao.
Finally someone who gets it
Ehh I just think the USSR is fascinating. Not very knowledgeable, though. I'm just another moron on the internet. Still, while it'd never happen in this story, mix in those challenges with a closer look at the moral relativism of it all (it is not some moral imperative to always revert to liberal democracies, or else be instantly evil and oppressive by default). The "Collective" part of "Arxur Collective" first gave me this (completely not going to happen) "headcanon", for lack of a better word. Or you're just talking about the moustache, in which case yes, of course I get it. I'm a genius!
> it is not some moral imperative to always revert to liberal democracies, or else be instantly evil and oppressive by default Case in point Saddam Hussein. He was an evil dictator who tortured and murdered people, but Iraq under his rule was objectively less bad in every single way than it is right now under ~~Taliban~~ Al Qaeda rule.
Isn’t… isn’t Taliban Afghanistan?
Ask the US about Operation Cyclone, I’m pretty sure they can tell you all about the taliban.
Except it has to.. that’s the whole point of a purge especially in government, it has to be through a strong man figure or a more organized/centralized group within government with authority
No such thing as Stalinism, that was Stalin taking a more centralized approach to socialism through Lenin’s actions and teachings with a more materialistic and pragmatic approach than a idealistic one.
I really can't follow a discussion into theory. While I think the USSR and associated topics are incredibly interesting, I'm hardly knowledgeable. I'm mostly referring to the strong state, cult of personality, and pursuit of communism/collectivism.
For the “cult of personality” I ask that you look up videos or recorded letters of how Stalin tried to leave office 4 times but the politburo just kept electing again every time. Pretty interesting
Googled that. Opinion of others on this website, one that I find highly believable, is that is was just political theatre. Who on Earth *wouldn’t* ask for Stalin to stay if asking him to leave put a target on one’s back? I’m generally sympathetic to the ideology of the USSR, and think it gets something of a bad rap, but I have no affection for Stalin as a person. His leadership quality has more room for debate, but he was in no terms a good person and that whole resignation thing sounds precisely like another scheme to advance the cult of personality and loyalty towards his person.
Your source for this theatrics would be greatly appreciated.
It's *Stalin*. The man was a scoundrel and I'd hardly take such things at face value.
Fascism isn't a goal, it's a method, a form of government and economic organization. Stalinism in the real world was actually orders of magnitude worse than fascism. Mussolini was a bad person but he's got nothing on National Socialism and Soviet Socialism in terms of human rights violations.
I am not even going to touch this take. Not worth it, no improving this. But, socialism absolutely is a method and form of organization.
Where did I say it wasn't? What I disputed was this: > but with an at least more positive goal than fascism. Fascism isn't an end-goal any more than National, Soviet, or "With Chinese Characteristics" Socialism. They're just different variations on authoritarian collectivism. In fact in actual real world practice the only meaningful difference is the political convenience of the subject to the speaker. Something is socialism when it's convenient to the speaker and fascism otherwise.
Not quite? Fascism requires a strong nationalist aspect, and as far as I’m aware the economics are out of nationalist convenience I.e. whatever is considered best for the nation, or so I’ve heard. Socialism, at least assuming it isn’t a warped form like Stalinism, is more rigid and doesn’t necessarily include nationalism as a must-have requirement. In fact, it works against it. Socialist systems, and I mean *Socialist* socialist, aim to create communism. AFAIK fascism basically just wants its specific national group to thrive above all others.
> Socialist systems, and I mean Socialist socialist, aim to create communism Socialism always gets special treatment, it's the only ideology that people insist on judging according to its own claims about itself rather than anything else. If you give fascism the same special treatment then it's not just "evil people who hate everyone else" but "a system where all parts of society and the economy are centrally controlled and working towards a common goal in national unity". This is of course completely different than socialism, which is a system where all parts of society and the economy are centrally controlled and working towards a common goal in national unity. Which is why I said earlier that the *practical* difference between fascism and socialism in the real world is the political needs of the speaker. Another way to look at this is that Fascism is socialism without the pseudo-religious belief that a messianic utopian era will come about if people just believe hard enough and burn all the ~~witches and devil worshippers~~ counterrevolutionaries and reactionaries.
I sure as shit hope the Arxur Collective didn't go to something as unstable&prone to Fascism as a Liberal Democracy. Especially if said Liberal Democracy had Capitalism......that would really, really slow down their progress in moving past the nasty, horrific shit the Federation and Dominion did.
I hope he pulled a George Washington
given how many warlord chief hunters there were, I think Tokugawa Ieyasu would be a better pick. Guy ended the sengoku jidai and ensured that the violence wouldn't restart after his death by abdicating to his heir before his health could decline.
Yea but I'm American and don't know anything about Japanese history. Except where they intertwine
Pulled his nation together and released his power like a madlad
Did we ever even know how old Isif was? “Old”, but by what standard? Surely the Dominion didn’t have the longest life expectancy.
Considering he was a chief hunter, and that's a pretty senior position, and he's been chief hunter for at least a while, he was probably 50+ by the time NoP started, which means he's pushing into his ~70s now
Good point. Ages are hardly given out in general, though. Chief Hunters probably also live a lot longer, so maybe it’s a bit less relative there, if you catch what I’m saying.
Yeah, a lifetime of decent nutrition and probably some of the best healthcare in the whole Dominion would probably give Isif quite some longevity. Not to mention chief hunters were chosen based on physical superiority
Giving the alligators in the zoo some ice packs brb
He was old enough that his body had trouble keeping up with that younger Chief Hunter he dueled He won that fight with experience and cunning, not strength This would make him at least middle aged
Good point
We know it's no longer the dominion but the collective. Witch sounds just as oppressive but yea 😅
How does it sound oppressive??? If anything it sounds more egalitarian than anything but alas we will have to see and most likely will know by tomorrow
How is a "collective" egalitarian? 😂 That's the core point that makes Socialism, Kommunism and Fascism 😅 Faschismo litteraly means "Bundel"
Also it’s a “collective” meaning that there is multiple voices or many steps to take to establish a plan of action or a next step. Not a one man party that cripples and dies like fascism/nazism when their leader dies. The Collective continues on.
And what happens when your one voice is not alligned with the others? Wanna ssk Stalin or Mao what they thought about dicidents?
Bro doesn’t know Soviet democracy, tell me what’s the current US prison population compared to Stalins when his great purge was being done.
Sovjet Democracy 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Like Dry Water? Freezing Fire? Way more people ALIVE xD
No argument, lil bro lacks the mental capacity to debunk it lol 💀🙏
Fascism focuses on unity through nationality, typically through ethnicity where the party prioritizes itself in their own minds and the peoples. With no regard for the “other” everyone must fall in line with party doctrine and customs. Emphasizing a U.S. vs them mentality by categorizing everyone else as below or inferior to them. Socialism is the opposite you are not very well versed in theory either it seems
That's ethno fascism, fascism in general only refers to a group of any kind. That whole "monkey strong together" idea. Since this always ends in a "us vs them" mentality (especially in times of war and crisis) it always has a distegard for others at some point. Socialism is defacto a form of fascism. It's not ethnocentric, it's ideocentric. If you're not a Socialist you're "one of them" witch was justification for every socialistic regeme to put you in jail, deport you, stuff you in work camps or straight up shoot you.
Excited too see our favorite marsupial as well. I don't think Isif was sure he would survive the war, but he got the chance to start rebuilding Arxur society. Since Kaisal is in charge I imagine things went relatively well. Whether he's dead or retired, he had a damn good run - Curious to see what the Arxur that came after him have done now.
Isif was already quite old in NoP1 so it's fair to say he retired.
Kaisal is an ambassador, Isif probably can't leave the Arxur on a long enough leash to go on a diplomatic romp.
Didn’t it say he was leader? Kaisal, that is.
I'm pretty sure it just mentions him by name, not by position. But with how things were when book 1 ended, I imagine Isif has to spend all of his time keeping a bunch of crocodiles with starships from going back to the good old days and nomming those soft, tasty prey species.
> "Their leader traveled for weeks to be here, and he’s waiting inside." That's definitely a reference to his position.
Isn't that from Tassi's perspective though, not Onso's dialogue? AFAIK, she doesn't know who's who in the Arxur hierarchy. Also, even if Kaisal is *a* leader that doesn't mean he's *the* leader. Like how a general and a colonel are both leaders in the same army.
I mean, idk why you're asking; you can go back up and read it. It's literally Onso saying "Their leader" in reference to the Arxur, not "their military leader" not their "leader on foreign policy" it's "Their leader" in reference to the species, with no clarifiers.
This is some of the easiest research I’ve ever done lol Yes, leader.
Is Kaisal the second in command defective?
yes. He was also the PoV character for one of the early patreon exclusives, and his chapters can be found in the paperback publication.
my bet is Isif pulled a George Washington and stayed in office long enough to get things settled and ready for the next person to take over (kaisel), then stepped down to set the precedent of peaceful transition of power
Either Isif is dead after de-Ginzelisationing everything, OR he only was in power for a peaceful transition of power to Kaisal and then he just retired. Either way, the next person on my list that I’m concerned about (now with the reference of Kaisal) is Zhao. WHERES THAT OLD BUGGER!?
I’d like to think they are both on a pontoon boat somewhere getting absolutely Wednesdayed sharing war stories.
"Remember that time I had you arrested"
“I let you arrest me. There’s no chance on Wriss you could have arrested me if I hadn’t come willingly. By the way it’s your turn to pour the tequila.
"We had several gunships pointed at you" "What is it you humans say? No, I would win?"
“Come on Zhao. We both know one call to my ARMADA and Betterment would have pinned another stupid metal to my scales.” “Then why even bother with “dumb weak humans” at all then? Huh? Admit it! We had full control! You had no way out.” “The only thing I’ll admit is that my glass is still empty, Zhao.” Then both start laughing “Drink up you weird Lizzard” as Zhao pours another round for Isif and himself. “With pleasure you space primate.”
All while Jones sits in Orbit and laughs maniacly while listening 😂
lol
With a smug rodent on his head.
sounds abt right
He’s probably retired.
Prolly eating some rice and dumplings in his apartment in Neo Beijing, surrounded by his grandkids, dogs and hensas, with a three legged cat in his lap, gambling on horse races.
general zhao ftw!!! best character nop1 no contest
Good question
>OR he only was in power for a peaceful transition of power to Kaisal This is exactly what I've been saying is a possibility. There's a decent chance that he pulled a card from Tokugawa Ieyasu and guaranteed that things would not devolve into chaos after his death by abdicating and ensuring that there was a clear transfer of power so that none of the power-hungry chief hunters could try to capitalize on the opportunity. Although given the fact that he was mentioned to be on the older side, the jaslip lore doc's reveal that most sapient species have a similar lifespan (with the jaslips being the one outlier), and the fact that we're over 20 years later... odds are that he's passed already.
uff da, that’s depressing. Not lizard Khrushchev, that sucks if he is dead (or maybe genetic or artificial life extending tech has been developed in the 20 years)
Lizard Khrushchev! Scaly Space Goomba! Hell yeah!
I mean, he can't be THAT old, he's probably like 80-90ish at most by now, and probably has the best healthcare and doctors in the whole Collective
Where's Curtis LeMay wannabee General Jones at tho
probably destabilising entire regions of the galaxy for practice or smth
Hey, if they're Duerten or Sivkit regions they probably deserve it.
The federation sympathizers are gonna lose their minds! anti- carnivore factions: "hah with the yotuls support we will keep the meat eaters out of.... Bissem and Yotul: \*casualy release the Arxur Anti- carnivore factions: "mortified screaming\*
Nearby Shield: "SHOOT THE SECRET STAR IMPLODER THE KOLSHIANS GAVE US AT WRISS'S SUN BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE" \*_some rando small Federation has-been between Shield space and Wriss get accidentally targeted and wiped_\* Shield: "FUCK"
So Kaisal became the next leader of Wriss, I wonder where Isif went, if he’s still alive.
Well, he was stated several times to be on the older side, so odds are that he's dead. Eirher that or he pulled a tokugawa and retured to ensure a clean transfer of power.
If Isif is dead I’m kinda hoping he got the luxury of having died of being old rather than offed by some malcontent or upstart
I see what is happening here with respect to Yotul, humanity's demonstration of strength was great in the war (massive cyber attack, unequal fights that were won, obtaining allies with only politics even), and we did not lift the Geneva convention We still struggle with that, they want more strength and power so they distance themselves from their first ally who did not discriminate and humiliate them, to now become real competition, I can't say if it's wrong or I guess it's politics. But I am given to understand that Yotul wants to reach the top even higher than his biggest climb reached. Although it doesn't feel good to me, because the higher you climb, the more painful the fall will be. Pd: long live Onso
My exact thoughts but still i can't hate yotuls
I understand you perfectly, I couldn't help but jump for joy when Onso appeared, why does every species in this galaxy have to be so damaged and so selfish? The collective mental state of humanity is flogging my view
Is Siffy still alive? I hope so. Thanks for the chapter mate
>he was a carefree islander that enjoyed riding waves on pristine beaches Hmm, I wonder who is he... >“Because I want you to do something for me when you get entrenched. I want you to lobby for the Arxur’s isolation to be lifted.” Oooh. >“Just hear out their story. So perhaps? >Their leader traveled for weeks to be here, and he’s waiting inside. Please, hear his story. So PERHAPS?! >you need to at least have a sit-down with Kaisal. Let him explain the damage the Federation did, and how the Arxur Collective is working to undo Betterment’s legacy. So perhaps ANSWERS about the Collective?!! >Now, I’ll be right back with a certain reptile. Stay put. YES!! [FINALLY!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/NatureofPredators/comments/1c0pnno/nop2_ch_2627_finally_answers/) Answers on the bigest black box of the series!! News about the Arxur collective!! Wow, that's a lot of news. It's good to see that Onso is doing very well. Let's be honest, he's become a competent politician, and all the while maintaining his respectability, nice. Frankly, I wonder what the exact relationship is between the Yotuls and the Arxurs. Onso made an interested excuse, but I think it's a bit too much effort just for that, so I think they really want to help this race. In a others hand, sending a 'fuck you' to the Federation is undoubtedly a very strong motivation for Yotul. Else, Kaisal? Leader of the Collective? Wow, that a bomb your drop. And a surprise. Even if Isif took him under his wings, he wasn't really well set for such a trajectory. High ranking military officer, yes, but political leader and face of the Collective? Very unexpected of his part. Well, that was 20 years ago and a lot can happen, so I can't wait to see what happened to our favorite grumpy scrawny. As well as what happened to one of NoP1's best characters in Isif's himself (Also, very personal curiosity about what happened to that Giznel piece of shit. Died slowly in this shit I hope)
Someone above argued that Onso is anything but ethical. A good politician, sure, but a horrible statesman.
Chapter 26! As word of the Starlight Incident reaches Leirn, Onso reaches out to offer his aid getting Bissems into the SC despite the Technocracy’s position; we see that our favorite Yotul has climbed the ranks, and he presents his species’ reasons for opposing uplifts to Tassi in a more favorite light. We learn that he has one condition for his aid, which is that the Bissems meet with the Arxur to consider lobbying for the end of their isolation. There’s also a bit of info about the Yotul opening an embassy on Wriss, and maintaining relations with the Collective. What do you think of Onso’s motives, as well as the arguments he presented for the Yotul’s feelings on the entire uplift? Should the Bissems ally with the Arxur? What will Kaisal have to say for himself, and will Tassi warm to him at all? As always, thank you for reading!
Honestly Onso's reasons for the Yotul reaction to the uplift are exactly what I expected. I think the Yotul should have thought more on the fact that the Bissem homeworld is facing ecological disaster, but their fears are entirely valid IMO. As for lifting the blockade on the Arxur... It might be too soon for the galaxy, honestly. But it's not like these are ideal circumstances. The Yotul, ambitious little bastards that they are (love 'em to bits), see an opportunity for power, the Bissem need their help... I'm curious to see what Kaisal has to say. Maybe Arxur society has cleaned up lot? I honestly don't know what the Arxur are like now. Curious to know how he took power, hopefully peacefully from Isif. Also, happy to see Onso kept strong. And is still surfing. Sounds like he made quite a career for himself too.
Quick world building questions: When using FTL, does the FTL drive propel the ship or do the regular engines need to be used? When a ship drops out of FTL does it maintain the velocity it has going into FTL? Does going into and out of FTL emit any notable signature besides the start and end of a subspace trail? How long does a subspace trail stick around before it can no longer be detected?
Well, the subspace drive feels entirely seperate from the normal engines and can be used on otherwise short-range shuttles, so it probably doesn't need the normal engines. There have also been statements that a ship's acceleration needs to be at zero (aka engunes off and coasting) for it to enter FTL Yes. Humans used drones going at very high speeds exiting FTL in order to deorbit a moon. And the answers to your last two questions are unknown.
if its coasting odds are its acceleration isn't zero, its on the negative side.
Technically true ... however, the negative acceleration in stellar vacuum is ... minute at most. From my understanding it was negligible for the difference between the calculated path, and measured path, of the Voyager probes.
they're in space. no air resistance. even if a planet is pulling at them (which is unlikely as they need to be far from large sources of gravity. that's how the disruptors work), then the acceleration is far below what even the weakest thruster would be putting out. there's probably a threshold at some level that basically means the engines need to be off.
even being near a solar system you will get gravity acting on your vessel.
The pain of being on a 30 tonnes spacecraft and deciding to throw out your 15 tonnes of 1910s meat rations at 4090 m/s the moment you enter subspace 😔
A question just occurred to me, are the Yotul still in a "temporary" dictatorship, or did it actually transition to a more stable form of governance?
A Technocracy as defined by Wikipedia does not preclude it from being a long term stable and well working method of governance. However, since it's a rule of a few over many, where those in power achieve their position through expertise and not popular support.
While expertise is good, using it alone holds risk just as using only popular support does.
Indeed it does, though the risks of an oligarchy is different than those of populism. :)
True. Both need different counters. And it’s usually populism leading to oligarchies, rather than vice versa. Or, at least, *power* resting in oligarchies.
I think it might do more harm than good for the bissem’s chances at being accepted. Great chapter as always!
The lobbying can be done after being accepted, a sort of behind the scenes deal, it does put Onso's efforts at risk, but I think he is willing to accept it
Onso is being a complete hypocrite and asshole here. He's demonstrating exactly why he should *never* have been put in a leadership position. He's a great soldier and engineer but too devious and self centered to be a great leader. He demonstrated his worst traits in NoP1 but they were tempered by his trauma, lack of authority, and heroism in the war. In peacetime there is none of that to hide behind. Often people who are well suited for war aren't well suited for peace and that unfortunately seems to be the case with Onso. First of all the entire argument about how 'things will never be your achievement again' is and always has been complete garbage. All societies have shared innovations and culture, it's literally how societies advance. The Yotul almost certainly had one person or group invent writing first for instance and then it spread from there. Now there may have been multiple groups inventing the same thing independently but the way society as a whole ended up with writing was by adopting it from others. That's just how culture works. That doesn't mean anything you then do with the ability to write is no longer your achievement. The Yotul are conflating oppressive colonialism deliberately destroying their culture with the natural sharing of ideas. The two are not only incomparable, with key elements being consent and choice, but it's actually xenophobic and potentially racist. Not good traits for a society claiming to want to partner with other species. Onso is also doing the same thing, on an admittedly smaller scale, that he's criticizing. He's using his power to impose his will to shape a civilization just barely ready to reach out to space. His blackmail, abuse of authority, and out right corruption (and yes that's what it is, he's using his position to deliberately break the rules to bring Kaisel there and force this meeting) are horrible traits for someone in a position of power. It is grossly unfair and abusive to the Bissems to put them in this position and the fact the Yotul have *deliberately* made things harder for the Bissem only to later offer a 'solution' is nothing short of extortion. Onso is demonstrating a stunning lack of care for how this will impact the Bissem. He's putting them in an impossible position to force them to back a controversial decision and help push through the acceptance of a relatively new government made up of some of the worst monsters the galaxy has ever seen. Even humanity wouldn't openly and unconditionally embrace the Axur because of how bad they were, the Bissem coming in and backing them would immediately put a target on their backs politically and risks fracturing the Sapient Coalition further along the 'predator'/'non-predator' lines. To say nothing of what it could do for the acceptance of any future carnivores/omnivores the coalition discovers. It is entirely reckless, dangerous, and harmful to the Bissem but he *knows* their choices are limited as their planet is literally dying. It's disgusting. Onso was great in part one, a hero even, but given power he has become nothing short of a monster. Seeing what the Yotul have become it's very possible that Onso is going to make his fear about needing to be able to fight even humanity a reality. The Yotul aren't even being subtle in their manipulations so this is going to come to a head at some point. It also frankly just seems stupid. With all the species involved being against the Axur how are the Yotul and Bissem supposed to push their acceptance through? Even if they get humanity to side with them there's a reason the Axur weren't accepted in the first place and humanity going back on it's word so soon, because it is far too soon to claim Axur society has completely reformed, also risks fracturing the Sapient Coalition just on the grounds of eroding trust in humanity keeping to it's word. I'm afraid the Yotul are forcing humanity's hand here and it's going to lead to serious inner conflict. And the way the story is shaping up it's very likely right before the Sapient Coalition encounters another more technologically advanced oppressive government. Not that the Yotul would know that but their paranoia is so focused inward they're missing the forest for the trees here.
Agree, definitely on the idea sharing part. They’re too busy seeing themselves as species and not one people that they compare themselves against their allies. I’d argue that homogeneity is actually desirable here. Feds don’t count tho since they *definitely* didn’t want people getting along with their stereotyping and mandatory specialization. Anyways, the Nazis were first to space but the Soviets (literal sworn enemies) get and deserve the credit of being first to start space exploration. What matters is who actually does stuff with discovery. Am I losing my point? Probably. Idk.
It is important to empasize how Onso described the Axur: "they’d be loyal unconditionally if you help them". He's not only screwing the Bissems, he's trying to gain control over the Arxur by getting them out of isolation. It does not matter whether they are ready or not, how much they change means nothing. What is important to Onso is that he is old now and things must be done. Kaisal did not like humans 20 years ago. What are the chances that he warmed up to humanity? Earth put him in a bubble for all he cares. Yotul are seeking power and want to expand. And humanity is the main obstacle to whatever plan they have in mind. I'm not sure if I should start worrying or not. I do not see evidence of purposeful harm just yet but I do feel the smell of something cooking. If only Carlos was here. Onso demonstrated his manipulative tendencies during the war in the coffee incident, which he claimed was done for fun. It is always fascinating to see people change without really changing as the time goes by.
That's a really good example of just how self centered the Yotul, or at least Onso, have become. It's like their inferiority complex combined with their victories in the war have caused them to over correct and seek power without regard for ethics. I mean they even admit they're inflaming anti-predator racism not because they share that view but solely as a political tool, that's pretty horrible. >Onso demonstrated his manipulative tendencies during the war in the coffee incident, which he claimed was done for fun. To add to this not only did he do it but when he was confronted he doubled down and flat out refused to change because it got him what he wanted. So it's not like he had a bad habit he was unaware of or was willing to correct, he was confronted about how manipulative it was and his answer was basically "good, that's what I want". Which isn't a huge issue if you're just some comms tech following orders but becomes a major issue when someone gives you the level of power and influence he now wields.
Confirmation of a fair number of the theories I supported in this one, I'm still wondering if Onso's attempts to get the Bissem's aid in ending the Arxur's isolation is a personal idea, in line with the SC's plans, or the Technocracy's backup plan if the Bissem uplift was unavoidable. The Bissem should maintain cordial relations with the Collective in any regard, allying themselves world be a bit premature at this point, but if the SC doesn't permit the Bissem membership then a relationship (trade/defense/etc) with an unaligned power like the Collective would be an option. Looking forward to getting a peek inside the Collective and see how Arxur society has changed over the last generation. I wonder if we're going to be getting a new perspective for the next chapter.
It's good to see Onso. I can't wait to find out what the Arxur have been up to.
YOOOOOO ITS ONSO!
“ There couldn’t have been enough changes in a few decades” Oh Tassi shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the speed at which a culture can change. After all, the cultural transformation from Nazi Germany to West Germany was like night and day in an equally short amount of time. Of course it helped that the allied nations were actively helping in rebuilding Germany into something its people could be proud of without the… unpleasant legacy. But the sentiment is still the same.
I mean, they could’ve done a better job of dealing with the Nazis. But there’s only so much you can replace while retaining legitimacy. That is, if you want to take an optimistic view of intent.
Eh I’m sure the CIA has been busy pushing and prodding the Arxur along a desired path
First!! Upvote then read
You were on it today!
I checked every half minute for an hour. I’m in school too, probably not the best idea, but it’s worth it.
School is secondary to reading about space penguins.
Of course, space penguins take priority
\*Onso mentions the arxur leader ONSO AND SIFI!!!!! \*reads name of the arxur leader Oh.... wait what happened?
Siffy was already on the older side of the Arxur population by his intro in NoP1, being one of the oldests Chiefs in activity. Either he's gone gone, or gone retired to give way to his second in command (Kaisal) to ensure none of the psychopathic Chiefs would take advantage of his geriatric ass to usurp power through a honor battle or something.
that's true and a likely possibility
ONSO ONSO ONSO ONSO ONSO Oh and Kaisal’s here too ONSO ONSO ONSO ONSO ONSO
I can’t wait for the Arxur to be an almost hyper-peaceful and borderline xenophillic species that is only being repressed by the paranoid and wholly unnecessary hatred of the other species.
I guess this really is the nature of predators! *Sitcom laugh track*
If Issif died and Felra wasn't allowed to go to his funeral I WILL RIOT!!!
I am hoping that Isif pulled a Washington, got things on what he felt was the right track and then despite people wanting him to be leader for life realized that a dictator was the last thing they needed and so stepped aside voicing his support for Kaisal and going off to retire somewhere with his good friend Felra coming to visit regularly.
Forever since stories have been told of Isif’s supposedly wooden teeth.
Calling the Yotul immediately pre-uplift “medieval” seems like a manipulative miscommunication. I guess he corrected Tassi's taking that at face value by bringing up what their achievements were
Feels tragic that “The water’s orange” seems to just be a fact of life and not a sign of a severe problem
Nah, it was just swim with sharks day and a venlil showed up
Depending on the atmospheric and seabed conditions it genuinely could be.
Well, no. We hear it explicitly in the earlier chapters that they have algae blooms of orange algae that are a big problem That'd be like us saying that the ocean being green is normal
Ah... Good chapter. Pleasant to read after spending all morning getting deadnamed and misgendered at the mosque (because it's Rid and i couldn't avoid it). Thank you for this wordsmith.
I can not do much for you, but I do hope and wish you stay strong in your faith and conviction of who and what you are.
F sister you’re one of the characters of all time. (Sister? I remembered that right, right?)
Yup! Thank you. Today's been a hard day, and these bits of affirmation/reassurance/idk are really helping. :)
… Okay, I just gotta say it. Imagine you’re sitting at home reading the newest NoP chapter and something funny happens. You laugh a little and make a silly joke. Suddenly, one of the characters directly addresses you, personally, in a response. Freaky, huh? So anyways, imagine you’ve been passively observing the NoP subreddit for well over a year, checking frequently to at least pass by and read the title of every (non NSFW) post. Noting references, catching memes an debates, keeping mental notes on prominent users. Treating it as an extension of the story, essentially. If you can see where I’m going with this, perhaps you see how surreal this is lmao. Anyways silliness aside, no problem. Have a good one :)
#ONSO!!!!!!!!!
I struggle to see why the Bissem lobbying for Arxur release would be at all effective? Unless Onso's making this a long-term favor
Think back to the Onso we all know and love. He'd care more about spitting on the feds than any kind of trade deal,but he's clever enough to put that label on it.
Third
More returning characters. Nice. Will be fun hearing what has happened with the Arxur since the Federation got squashed.
Oh boy, time to find out how our lovable reptile has been.
# ONSO is back
Well the next chapter on this arc should be fire... :D
Well most likely isif is dead. Rip u will be missed.
“The circumstances necessitated their invention” it should be “intervention”
“The circumstances necessitated their invention” it should be “intervention”
So Siffy is off living the good life with his prairie dog Waifu right? Right?!?
I've finally caught to it. I've been reading since NOP chapter 1, nonstop. I found this marvel a little late, but is was good not having to wait for new chapters. It was a journey, from the initial setup, it seemed to be a little to overboard, with the reactions of the prey races to predators, but then was exposed as a Federation led mass manipulation the story really picked up. Also the Arxur not being one dimensional monsters, all the nuances and complexities, as well as a diverse set of characters got me going. My only complain is that the aliens don't feel _Alien_ enough. If they just had a human skin, none of them would be at lost in a human world, appearance is the only alien thing about them. The way they think and talk, it's all very much human-like. But they are fun characters, and fit the universe pretty well. I'll be waiting for the coming chapters with excitement, I really enjoyed the story. It got me through some tuff times. Thanks a lot u/SpacePaladin for one more amazing Masterpiece.
Everyone is talking about Isif and Kaisal. But can we remember about baby Nulia and uncle Siffy?? I feel like their connection would have a play in upcoming events.
>The circumstances necessitated their invention* *intervention
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/u/SpacePaladin15 ([wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/authors/SpacePaladin15)) has posted 261 other stories, including: * [The Nature of Predators 2-25](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bxd6m6/the_nature_of_predators_225/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-24](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1buu3ps/the_nature_of_predators_224/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-23](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1brjek4/the_nature_of_predators_223/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-22](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bp33ci/the_nature_of_predators_222/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-21](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bltnkb/the_nature_of_predators_221/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-20](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bjekkf/the_nature_of_predators_220/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-19](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bg7qak/the_nature_of_predators_219/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-18](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bdsrab/the_nature_of_predators_218/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-17](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bajuli/the_nature_of_predators_217/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-16](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b82af0/the_nature_of_predators_216/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-15](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b4qliu/the_nature_of_predators_215/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-14](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b28bf7/the_nature_of_predators_214/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-13](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1aywvw1/the_nature_of_predators_213/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-12](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1awekyb/the_nature_of_predators_212/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-11](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1at46ck/the_nature_of_predators_211/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-10](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1aqp8ow/the_nature_of_predators_210/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-9](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1anit8y/the_nature_of_predators_29/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-8](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1al59w2/the_nature_of_predators_28/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-7](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1ahyjjv/the_nature_of_predators_27/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-6](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1afk5ne/the_nature_of_predators_26/) This comment was automatically generated by `Waffle v.4.6.1 'Biscotti'`. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHFY&subject=WaffleBot|1c0ni9m&message=If%20you%20have%20problems%20with%20updatemebot,%20contact%20Watchful1.%20We%20do%20not%20maintain%20it.) if you have any issues with Waffle.