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My friend who is a great fan of the show but haven’t read ice and fire said it was traumatising especially the sounds. So i guess it was indeed bloody its just most of us were desensitised due to got and the expectation from the books
I am alsp extremely surprised when I am disturbed by a death on screen due to how desensitized I am from media. Lots of horror games that go harxcore oftentimes more so than traditional media.
The sounds of Jaehearys' death did freak me out a little. None of the other deaths in GoT ever bothered me and I always found it weird when people commented how they skip certain scenes due to, say, Shireen being burned. Never bothered me, but hearing the sounds of Jaehearys being beheaded kind of disturbed me. I'd still watch it again, but that did surprise me.
The only other time I got bothered before was from a book describing how a main character witnessed his mother kill her own newborn by snaping her neck and the guy described how it was just a tiny *snick* sound and his sister was gone. It was Radiance by Grace Draven. It's only similar to asoif by being a fantasy genre, but nowhere near as complex. It's fun read, though. I quite like the author.
Personally I can’t watch Shireen’s death, Aemma’s childbirth/death scene, Laena’s death, or Jaehearys’ death. I’m trying to think of whether there were others from GOT I’ll need to skip on a rewatch — probably. Jaeharys’ death in particular has been the hardest for me so far.
From GOT I can’t watch the Red Wedding or Oberyn’s death scene. I also can’t do torture, so skipped most of Theon and Ramsay’s scenes together.
Laena’s death doesn’t bother me, but I agree with Aemma and Jaehearys’ deaths. Those were brutal.
I watched the Red Wedding once and never again and I really really really am dreading the storming of the dragon pit like that’s the only part of HOTD I might have to look away from. I know they’re CGI but it’ll still hurt real bad.
Not the child, or even Helaena. I am laughing though because I was having a meeting with my supervisor and he knows that I am a HUGE fan of this franchise, and he started our talk with..."don't you just hate Alicent". I just started laughing because she irks me the most.
I was working in educational field when S1 aired. We had team building outing in the countryside just staying in a villa playing paintball and stuff when my boss ordered pizza and loudly exclaimed "alright teachers we care about children and we do not support r-pist who put children in fighting pits! Free pizza for Rhaenyra's supporters" 😭🤣 deadass
I get off track at the beginning of every therapy session now that I know my therapist is a GoT and HoTD fan. She always tries to guide me back onto talking about actual therapy stuff, but I don't make it easy.
Killing Helaena would be fucking stupid politically speaking. People loved Helaena, and It would open Aegon up to marriage (perhaps there's a Lannister woman available?). With no son at that point, that woman's son (should she have any with Aegon) would be heir, making Aegon's hypothetical in-laws well motivated to see him win. Killing Jaehaera would also be stupid, since if Jaehhera is heir and Aegon dies, that leaves room for possible conflict between a pro-Aemond camp and a pro-Jaehera camp. It's always best to let your enemies fight each other until any winner is too weak to oppose you.
This sort of thing shows that people don't actually care about morality in fiction, and that talk of who is worse than who is mostly posturing to defend characters you like for other reasons. Daemon is a great example being the worst person in the story (to this point) but also arguably the most riveting. Psychos tend to be fun to watch.
I wouldn't call him the the worst hes definitely impulsive though rhaenys refusing to fight vhagar with him made me chuckle because it likely would have went in their favor considering how they both end up after fighting her alone/outnumbered striking first and fast may have won them the war with minimal bloodshed to their side.
💯 they can say what they want about daemon it’s been years since I read fire and blood but I don’t recall him commit any war crimes like one eye or tent boy
Larys first killed the Strongs at Harrenhal in episode 6 and then in episode 9 during the feet scene Alicent told Larys to burn Mysaria's brothel, where at least a hundred women and children resided.
Wait what? Firstly are we sure Mysaria owned a brothel? And secondly where did the number at last a hundred come from?
Wait I’m so stupid I thought it was just her house lmao
It was her brothel. Mysaria's nickname is White Worm and she had a whole web of spies and Otto used them to spy on Daemon and Alicent and all that. And then Alicent found out that Otto had spies put to work for Alicent and she gave feet pics to Larys in exchange for that information and then she told him to remove the spies so Larys burnt Mysaria's entire brothel and all of the children spies that she had - a hundred is the general estimation, considering how many people know about White Worm. Mysaria is the reason why Otto knew about what Daemon said about baby Baelon in episode 1 season 1 and then about what him and Rhaenyra did in the brothel. That's why Daemon tried to choke Mysaria in s2ep1, cause she straight up admitted that she's been spying on him for like 20 years and selling information to Otto.
Also I would like to add that Daemon not knowing about Mysaria being a spy is proof that he had nothing to do with Otto telling Viserys about what had happened in the brothel. Daemon didn't take Rhaenyra to the brothel to ruin her reputation - he took her to the brothel so that she can feel like a Targaryen prince, not a Targaryen princess. That's why later Daemon says "What does it matter brother? When we were Rhaenyra's age we fucked our way through half of the brothels on the Street Of Silk". Daemon didn't want to ruin Rhaenyra's reputation, he wanted her to experience what Daemon and Viserys experienced when they were her age, he wanted her to be free to do whatever she wanted. And then when Viserys tells Daemon that, indicating that Rhaenyra's reputation is ruined (unintentionally because of Daemon), Daemon decides to use that to his advantage and ask Viserys for Rhaenyra's hand. That's also why he didn't deny "defiling" Rhaenyra (despite knowing that he didn't actually do that because he left before they even had sex) - he just didn't care and decided to go with it in the hopes that Rhaenyra would marry him.
It looked wayy too big to be a spy house. A spy house would be a house where spies meet and it would logically be small and not noticable. And spies don't all live in the same house. It was a brothel.
He specifically took off her hat. Her white hair could be seen. And it was sure they were not the only nobility in the brothel. At least if he would have done it in a room separated from the rest of the world but not in a room full of people that could recognize her and start talking.
Also, no matter what you say, a guy that was about to fuck me leaves me alone at a club - not even going to use the word brothel - for no reason just that he couldn't get it up, I would never forgive him for that shit. I have much more self-worth than that.
Him taking off her hat is symbolism about him wanting her to be herself when she enters that brothel. It's him wanting her to experience what he experienced when him and Viserys were young. Also I would like you to remember that it was NOT the commonfolk who reported to Otto that Rhaenyra was there. It was Mysaria's spies who did that - and Daemon did NOT know that Mysaria was a spy and had spies. Which means that Daemon didn't do what he did to make Mysaria and Otto's spies see her, he did it because he wanted Rhaenyra to not be ashamed to go to a brothel the same exact way that all Targaryen princes visit brothels in their youth all the time and nobody gives a fuck.
And yeah, he left her because he's an idiot - not because he wanted her to be seen. Those two things have no connection whatsoever. We are currently talking about the fact that Daemon didn't know about Mysaria being a spy and having spies who gave information to Otto.
And yeah, I too wouldn't forgive that to a guy - but this isn't about me, and this isn't a club and it's not the 21st century lmao so you don't have to apply modern morals to this, we are talking about a fictional world with dragons in it after all
I said nobility. Commonfolk don't give a fuck who sits the throne as long as they are fed and living ok. Besides as if common folk had the money to go to brothels whenever they wanted. Most of them surely were Goldcloaks, merchants, sailors and the random lords. And that view you apply to Daemon's actions is late 20s- beginnings of 21st century so what are you trying to tell me? Daemon doesn't care she's not treated like a prince, what he was interested in was to convince her sex is not a bad thing. Not in the best way, mind you, but that was his goal.
And her going to a brothel is political suicide in Westeros. Nobody was forced into a pact to keep quiet. Daemon knew it, she knew it too but was too drunk to care. Alicent reacted badly to it, Viserys reacted badly to it, how do you think other nobility would have reacted to it? Just forgive it because she's the princess? That goes completely against the system of Westeros. Joe would have had her disinherited on the spot.
I never said he left because he wanted for her to be seen. You're putting words in my mouth now.
And what? Rhaenyra has to forgive him that he abandoned her in a brothel? That's much worse than a club? In freaking Westeros where Targaryens need to go incognito in order to not be robbed or stuff done worse to them? It's still shit what he did to her so don't apologize it. Hell, in episode 2 Rhaenyra realizes that even if she's Daemon's Queen he treats her the same way as Mysaria, a common whore.
I mean - Rhaenyra DID forgive him by episode 7 for abandoning her in the brothel lol I don't know what that has to do with what we're talking about. Yeah, Rhaenyra shouldn't be at the brothel and yeah the lords wouldn't be pleased by that. So? Obviously neither Daemon nor Rhaenyra cared about what the lords and ladies of Westeros think. Even Daemon himself says (to Viserys) "Who gives a fuck what some lord thinks? You are the dragon, your word is law".
If you’re counting Alicent saying to burn the brothel, then surely you should also count Daemon “cleaning up the city” by killing anyone even suspected of being a criminal?
Mind you, we KNOW those people were criminals because Otto himself later calls them criminals. Even Viserys knew they were criminals - it's just that he was too pussy to actually take action. The reason why Daemon wasn't punished in any way for "maiming half the city" was because he was right. Those people WERE criminals and everyone knew that, but Viserys was weak and wasn't interested in punishing them. Meanwhile the people in the brothel that Larys burnt on Alicent's orders were innocents.
“We know the suspected criminals are criminals because the high council said they were (conducted zero investigation and just kinda took Daemon’s word for it).”
Otto would never lie, and has always been portrayed as a paragon of virtue who cares about the smallfolk.
Why would Otto lie in favour of Daemon? The whole point is that Otto AND Viserys knew about those criminals but they didn't take action. I'm afraid some of y'all will do anything but admit that Daemon WAS right to punish those criminals. The point of the scene is not whether or not they were criminals - the point of the scene is to show you that unlike his brother, Daemon isn't afraid of spilling blood when he has to. And even at the end of the scene, Viserys literally says that he AGREES with Daemon about having to punish those criminals. Daemon is always right - it's just that his ways are too violent.
Also - this is Westeros - there is NO court. No investigations. Ned Stark literally beheaded a young man in the Game Of Thrones pilot without doing investigation on whether the man was right to run from his post at the Wall. But nobody says that Ned was wrong to do what he did, right? Why is it different for Daemon. The commonfolk talk - they talk about who is a criminal and who isn't. It's not too far-fetched to assume that the criminals who Daemon butchered are known criminals. The goldcloaks and the commoners knew about those criminals - but nobody except Daemon would do anything about it.
Hate to say this but leaving Helaena alive to suffer, and Jaehaera alive as a reminder of her murdered twin brother — and a potential female heir, since there’s no Maelor in the show (at least yet) — are part of why this was so cruel and barbaric. Psychological torture on top of the murder of an innocent child.
well thats just fucked up, i mean come on, those are children, and heleaena of all people, you can be a team black member without supporting blood and cheese
I think it shows the desensitization that media (social media included example police shootings there are so many you see on Twitter that it is kinda desensitizing) I think they butchered the scene from the books, but the sounds did get me.
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My friend who is a great fan of the show but haven’t read ice and fire said it was traumatising especially the sounds. So i guess it was indeed bloody its just most of us were desensitised due to got and the expectation from the books
Well, they did say the sounds were horrible
I am alsp extremely surprised when I am disturbed by a death on screen due to how desensitized I am from media. Lots of horror games that go harxcore oftentimes more so than traditional media. The sounds of Jaehearys' death did freak me out a little. None of the other deaths in GoT ever bothered me and I always found it weird when people commented how they skip certain scenes due to, say, Shireen being burned. Never bothered me, but hearing the sounds of Jaehearys being beheaded kind of disturbed me. I'd still watch it again, but that did surprise me. The only other time I got bothered before was from a book describing how a main character witnessed his mother kill her own newborn by snaping her neck and the guy described how it was just a tiny *snick* sound and his sister was gone. It was Radiance by Grace Draven. It's only similar to asoif by being a fantasy genre, but nowhere near as complex. It's fun read, though. I quite like the author.
Personally I can’t watch Shireen’s death, Aemma’s childbirth/death scene, Laena’s death, or Jaehearys’ death. I’m trying to think of whether there were others from GOT I’ll need to skip on a rewatch — probably. Jaeharys’ death in particular has been the hardest for me so far.
From GOT I can’t watch the Red Wedding or Oberyn’s death scene. I also can’t do torture, so skipped most of Theon and Ramsay’s scenes together. Laena’s death doesn’t bother me, but I agree with Aemma and Jaehearys’ deaths. Those were brutal.
I watched the Red Wedding once and never again and I really really really am dreading the storming of the dragon pit like that’s the only part of HOTD I might have to look away from. I know they’re CGI but it’ll still hurt real bad.
Yeah, I’m pretty desensitized as well and it got to me. My oldest daughter isn’t Jaeharys’s age, so that didn’t help.
Not the child, or even Helaena. I am laughing though because I was having a meeting with my supervisor and he knows that I am a HUGE fan of this franchise, and he started our talk with..."don't you just hate Alicent". I just started laughing because she irks me the most.
I was working in educational field when S1 aired. We had team building outing in the countryside just staying in a villa playing paintball and stuff when my boss ordered pizza and loudly exclaimed "alright teachers we care about children and we do not support r-pist who put children in fighting pits! Free pizza for Rhaenyra's supporters" 😭🤣 deadass
I get off track at the beginning of every therapy session now that I know my therapist is a GoT and HoTD fan. She always tries to guide me back onto talking about actual therapy stuff, but I don't make it easy.
I hope you are doing okay.
Killing Helaena would be fucking stupid politically speaking. People loved Helaena, and It would open Aegon up to marriage (perhaps there's a Lannister woman available?). With no son at that point, that woman's son (should she have any with Aegon) would be heir, making Aegon's hypothetical in-laws well motivated to see him win. Killing Jaehaera would also be stupid, since if Jaehhera is heir and Aegon dies, that leaves room for possible conflict between a pro-Aemond camp and a pro-Jaehera camp. It's always best to let your enemies fight each other until any winner is too weak to oppose you.
This sort of thing shows that people don't actually care about morality in fiction, and that talk of who is worse than who is mostly posturing to defend characters you like for other reasons. Daemon is a great example being the worst person in the story (to this point) but also arguably the most riveting. Psychos tend to be fun to watch.
I wouldn't call him the the worst hes definitely impulsive though rhaenys refusing to fight vhagar with him made me chuckle because it likely would have went in their favor considering how they both end up after fighting her alone/outnumbered striking first and fast may have won them the war with minimal bloodshed to their side.
How is Daemon the worst? Both Larys, Aegon and Alicent already have a higher kill count than him. >!Just wait till Aemond starts burning shit.!<
💯 they can say what they want about daemon it’s been years since I read fire and blood but I don’t recall him commit any war crimes like one eye or tent boy
Remind me who Alicent has killed? Also I assume you mean innocent people, since Daemon has killed in battle.
Larys first killed the Strongs at Harrenhal in episode 6 and then in episode 9 during the feet scene Alicent told Larys to burn Mysaria's brothel, where at least a hundred women and children resided.
Wait what? Firstly are we sure Mysaria owned a brothel? And secondly where did the number at last a hundred come from? Wait I’m so stupid I thought it was just her house lmao
It was her brothel. Mysaria's nickname is White Worm and she had a whole web of spies and Otto used them to spy on Daemon and Alicent and all that. And then Alicent found out that Otto had spies put to work for Alicent and she gave feet pics to Larys in exchange for that information and then she told him to remove the spies so Larys burnt Mysaria's entire brothel and all of the children spies that she had - a hundred is the general estimation, considering how many people know about White Worm. Mysaria is the reason why Otto knew about what Daemon said about baby Baelon in episode 1 season 1 and then about what him and Rhaenyra did in the brothel. That's why Daemon tried to choke Mysaria in s2ep1, cause she straight up admitted that she's been spying on him for like 20 years and selling information to Otto. Also I would like to add that Daemon not knowing about Mysaria being a spy is proof that he had nothing to do with Otto telling Viserys about what had happened in the brothel. Daemon didn't take Rhaenyra to the brothel to ruin her reputation - he took her to the brothel so that she can feel like a Targaryen prince, not a Targaryen princess. That's why later Daemon says "What does it matter brother? When we were Rhaenyra's age we fucked our way through half of the brothels on the Street Of Silk". Daemon didn't want to ruin Rhaenyra's reputation, he wanted her to experience what Daemon and Viserys experienced when they were her age, he wanted her to be free to do whatever she wanted. And then when Viserys tells Daemon that, indicating that Rhaenyra's reputation is ruined (unintentionally because of Daemon), Daemon decides to use that to his advantage and ask Viserys for Rhaenyra's hand. That's also why he didn't deny "defiling" Rhaenyra (despite knowing that he didn't actually do that because he left before they even had sex) - he just didn't care and decided to go with it in the hopes that Rhaenyra would marry him.
But why do we think it’s a brothel? Couldn’t it just be a spy house? 🏡
Brothels are spy houses lmao remember Littlefinger?
They can be but they dont have to be do they?
It looked wayy too big to be a spy house. A spy house would be a house where spies meet and it would logically be small and not noticable. And spies don't all live in the same house. It was a brothel.
He specifically took off her hat. Her white hair could be seen. And it was sure they were not the only nobility in the brothel. At least if he would have done it in a room separated from the rest of the world but not in a room full of people that could recognize her and start talking. Also, no matter what you say, a guy that was about to fuck me leaves me alone at a club - not even going to use the word brothel - for no reason just that he couldn't get it up, I would never forgive him for that shit. I have much more self-worth than that.
Him taking off her hat is symbolism about him wanting her to be herself when she enters that brothel. It's him wanting her to experience what he experienced when him and Viserys were young. Also I would like you to remember that it was NOT the commonfolk who reported to Otto that Rhaenyra was there. It was Mysaria's spies who did that - and Daemon did NOT know that Mysaria was a spy and had spies. Which means that Daemon didn't do what he did to make Mysaria and Otto's spies see her, he did it because he wanted Rhaenyra to not be ashamed to go to a brothel the same exact way that all Targaryen princes visit brothels in their youth all the time and nobody gives a fuck. And yeah, he left her because he's an idiot - not because he wanted her to be seen. Those two things have no connection whatsoever. We are currently talking about the fact that Daemon didn't know about Mysaria being a spy and having spies who gave information to Otto. And yeah, I too wouldn't forgive that to a guy - but this isn't about me, and this isn't a club and it's not the 21st century lmao so you don't have to apply modern morals to this, we are talking about a fictional world with dragons in it after all
I said nobility. Commonfolk don't give a fuck who sits the throne as long as they are fed and living ok. Besides as if common folk had the money to go to brothels whenever they wanted. Most of them surely were Goldcloaks, merchants, sailors and the random lords. And that view you apply to Daemon's actions is late 20s- beginnings of 21st century so what are you trying to tell me? Daemon doesn't care she's not treated like a prince, what he was interested in was to convince her sex is not a bad thing. Not in the best way, mind you, but that was his goal. And her going to a brothel is political suicide in Westeros. Nobody was forced into a pact to keep quiet. Daemon knew it, she knew it too but was too drunk to care. Alicent reacted badly to it, Viserys reacted badly to it, how do you think other nobility would have reacted to it? Just forgive it because she's the princess? That goes completely against the system of Westeros. Joe would have had her disinherited on the spot. I never said he left because he wanted for her to be seen. You're putting words in my mouth now. And what? Rhaenyra has to forgive him that he abandoned her in a brothel? That's much worse than a club? In freaking Westeros where Targaryens need to go incognito in order to not be robbed or stuff done worse to them? It's still shit what he did to her so don't apologize it. Hell, in episode 2 Rhaenyra realizes that even if she's Daemon's Queen he treats her the same way as Mysaria, a common whore.
I mean - Rhaenyra DID forgive him by episode 7 for abandoning her in the brothel lol I don't know what that has to do with what we're talking about. Yeah, Rhaenyra shouldn't be at the brothel and yeah the lords wouldn't be pleased by that. So? Obviously neither Daemon nor Rhaenyra cared about what the lords and ladies of Westeros think. Even Daemon himself says (to Viserys) "Who gives a fuck what some lord thinks? You are the dragon, your word is law".
If you’re counting Alicent saying to burn the brothel, then surely you should also count Daemon “cleaning up the city” by killing anyone even suspected of being a criminal?
Mind you, we KNOW those people were criminals because Otto himself later calls them criminals. Even Viserys knew they were criminals - it's just that he was too pussy to actually take action. The reason why Daemon wasn't punished in any way for "maiming half the city" was because he was right. Those people WERE criminals and everyone knew that, but Viserys was weak and wasn't interested in punishing them. Meanwhile the people in the brothel that Larys burnt on Alicent's orders were innocents.
“We know the suspected criminals are criminals because the high council said they were (conducted zero investigation and just kinda took Daemon’s word for it).” Otto would never lie, and has always been portrayed as a paragon of virtue who cares about the smallfolk.
Why would Otto lie in favour of Daemon? The whole point is that Otto AND Viserys knew about those criminals but they didn't take action. I'm afraid some of y'all will do anything but admit that Daemon WAS right to punish those criminals. The point of the scene is not whether or not they were criminals - the point of the scene is to show you that unlike his brother, Daemon isn't afraid of spilling blood when he has to. And even at the end of the scene, Viserys literally says that he AGREES with Daemon about having to punish those criminals. Daemon is always right - it's just that his ways are too violent. Also - this is Westeros - there is NO court. No investigations. Ned Stark literally beheaded a young man in the Game Of Thrones pilot without doing investigation on whether the man was right to run from his post at the Wall. But nobody says that Ned was wrong to do what he did, right? Why is it different for Daemon. The commonfolk talk - they talk about who is a criminal and who isn't. It's not too far-fetched to assume that the criminals who Daemon butchered are known criminals. The goldcloaks and the commoners knew about those criminals - but nobody except Daemon would do anything about it.
I have some clients who never read F&B but watch HotD. They all said it changed nothing side wise. Some are TB and some TG.
Killing the girls serves no purpose and it would just serve as more useful propaganda against Rhaenyra.
Hate to say this but leaving Helaena alive to suffer, and Jaehaera alive as a reminder of her murdered twin brother — and a potential female heir, since there’s no Maelor in the show (at least yet) — are part of why this was so cruel and barbaric. Psychological torture on top of the murder of an innocent child.
Yes, they should, although Daemon could never have expected that they would find three of them.
So even the normies understand that the Greens deserve to no longer breathe our air. Interesting.
well thats just fucked up, i mean come on, those are children, and heleaena of all people, you can be a team black member without supporting blood and cheese
I think it shows the desensitization that media (social media included example police shootings there are so many you see on Twitter that it is kinda desensitizing) I think they butchered the scene from the books, but the sounds did get me.
I don't agree with them about the Helaena and Jumphaera bit but hey, it's fiction.
😬 killing children is awful, and supporting the murder of children is always weird to me. Even if they are fictional
It is awful, but awfulness is just part and parcel of the ASOIAF setting
If the Greens had the same opportunity... they would have killed everyone too.
And that would be evil too
They did, though, and Aegon was advised against it.
Fuck the greens. A son for a son
The murder of innocent children is evil, regardless who their parents are.
It’s collateral damage and Aemond should have thought of that before he killed a child himself
Wait wut????
yikes