Hello loyal supporter of Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen, First of Her Name! Thank you for your post. Please take a moment to ensure you are familiar with our sub rules.
- Crossposting From HOTDGreens and asoiafcirclejerk is banned.
- No visible usernames in screenshots.
- Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated.
- No actor hate.
- No troll/rage-bait.
- No low-effort posts.
***
Comments or posts that break our sub rules will be removed and may result in a ban at the mods' discretion.
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HOTDBlacks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn't Rob vow to kill every member of House lannister when he hears about Ned's execution? Where's his fascist quote comparison? đ˘ where's stannis? They are both responsible for sooo much death and rape bcs of them pressing claims and to get "what they think is theirs". Did I miss the stannis = fascist comparisons during got? I must have missed all the treatsies on if Rob had a right to march on kings landing, if we as an audience should even "applaud" that.
Why does it always seem that as soon as the one gunning for power in this fantasy universe happen to not be a white male everyone suddenly turns into freefolk justice advocates tallying up the costs of war.
Ftr I do believe there's a case of benevolent sexism in the shows writing sometimes, but I feel like the op goes overboard with it.
Yeah this is not I want women to be more complex but more like I want the narrative to validate my negative opinion of this female character. And F&B does that,every line about Rhaenyra is written in a way to diminish her as incompetent or evil sprinkled with some insults about her looks and sexual life.
Agreed! Especially with your last paragraph. I do have my own criticisms of the showâs portrayal of Rhaenyra but we will have to wait for her entire arc to conclude before we can make any judgments. The writers are taking her through a journey. And it could turn out to be good.
Also the person who made the post sounds like one of those self-righteous âneutralsâ or âteam smallfolkâ who is disappointed that Rhaenyra wasnât portrayed as a bloodthirsty psychopath, all while hiding behind the mask of Rhaenyra is my favourite character đ
Apparently the realistic portrayal of any character who isnât a white male is inherently âproblematicâ to the always-angry Greens.
I simply *cannot* with their bullshit logic, delusional entitlement, and straight up racism.š
1: In case people have forgotten, the majority of the rift between Alicent and Rhaenyra (before younger Aemond fucked around by trying to kill super young Lucerys on Driftmark and then found out) exists because Alicent was so damned petty about the fact that Rhaenyraâs kids didnât have the âproper amount of Targaryen bloodâ or whatever. Alicentâs obsession w/ Nyraâs children with Laenor in s01e06 is nothing if not racism. Sheâs not upset because sheâs worried about Nyraâs family being accepted by the realm or whatever, sheâs upset because her arranged marriage hasnât been pleasant so that means no one elseâs is allowed to be pleasant. Her rage over this is expressed purely in terms of racism and hatred.
I feel like these are the same people who watched BrBa and agonized over Skyler being some sort of âevil bitch.â
These are no doubt the same people who raked Catelyn over the coals in GOT just because gurm had the audacity to write Cat as an incredibly believable and flawed person.
P.S. love your flair and am personally excited to see what they do with Rhaenaâs character.
Oh God, Skyler haters. That was genuinely traumatizing. I will never, ever trust the taste of online viewers after witnessing that nonsense. Betty in Mad Men received a similar load of shit from fans. I definitely agree with everything you've said.
Me too! Very excited for what they've got cooking up for both sisters this season. I can't wait for the Vale.
Idk what these guys want Rhaenyra to do lol. The character of Rhaenyra is not the same as the book especially from the introduction and theyâve known that since season 1. Iâm all for a dark arc for Rhaenyra but it has to be done well otherwise we get another season 8 Daenerys. I guess its unrealistic that Rhaenyra has sympathy for an innocent infant, that the grief of losing her son didnât send her into a murderer where she killed anyone and fuck the consequences. Weâre only two episodes into the season, just be fucking patient, especially when the trailers have her saying things like âI mean to fight this war and win itâ or âWe need to break the will of our enemyâ or âthey must see me as a ruler, and the symbols of my authority are not jewels and gowns but the shield and the swordâ. Just wait lol
The thing is even if her character were dark in the show, the same green fans would be complaining and abusing her. No matter what she does they will always complain and insult. Damned if she does, damned if she does not.
I mean the biggest thing I would want changed from s1 (besides the dumbass arc between her and Alicent, I feel that changing that really removes the motivation for a lot of WHY Rhaenyra did what she did - same as Daemon....they removed his genuine anger at Viserys at the loss of his child with Mysaria and made it a joke....) is for Rhaenyra to actually tell Daemon to fucking kill Laenor. Like, just kill him. He's being a useless husband, can't even show up and sit outside her door while she's giving birth to his 3rd "I'm not gay" baby, wants to run off to war, does nothing but stand there while he's in King's Landing, like.... I like Laenor, but I think a real conundrum for her would be to sacrifice him for the sake of her sons.
Or do something like let him go to war, knowing he's too drunk and grief stricken to actually fight (like portray his lover/squires/fellow knights as letting him win bc he's basically drunk all the time now crying over Joffrey still), and she knows he's going to die, and she encourages him to go after spending 2 episodes telling him fuck no. And then crossing her fingers that he falls off his dragon and dies quick.
Keeping him alive is just dumb at all points. And all it did was invent an annoying non-relationship with Rhaenys just for drama.
I agree. I haven't read F&B, so I was surprised to learn that the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent on the show is much different than the books. Which I think was a really important change because it helps set up the adversarial relationship between the two that is a massive driver to the plot. As other comments have mentioned, without some of those types of changes, I wonder if it would be more like a history documentary based on a history book, than a fantasy series that sucks you in.
Tbh I'm just generally disappointed, I wanted Aemond to mean killing Lucerys and for the whole Blood and Cheese fiasco to also be intentional. Imo they whitewashed the whole show and that really took away from the whole Fire and Blood aesthetic I was looking forward to.
IDK! I think OP is right. Except for the part where they decide that Rhaenyraâs rule would be unstable or how she wonât be a better ruler than Aegon(because I guess she will be), I agree with what theyâve said.
The show has really turned Rhaenyra into an indecisive and weak, Viserys 2.0. When she clearly was not the same in the book.
She was ambitious, arrogant, and selfish. There was a streak of cruelty to her. She wasnât someone who let people walk all over her.
And what I really like about her was how she chose to go to war for herself and not simply for her children.
That part of Rhaenyraâs character is really important to me. Women can be ambitious and they can choose to fight for themselves. That doesnât make them bad. They donât have to take it upon themselves to uphold peace.
But The writers however have decided ambitions = bad. So theyâve removed that aspect of her character. I wanted to watch a woman who unapologetically fights for whatâs hers. Because how many men do the same and are cheered for it?
So far, the show isnât giving me that and I really doubt that it will. it is all about prophecy, the greater good, and her children now.
>The show has really turned Rhaenyra into an indecisive and weak, Viserys 2.0. When she clearly was not the same in the book.
This is why I can't take this line of criticism seriously at all. Rhaenyra was completely out of commission due to grief and stillbirth at this point in Fire & Blood. You haven't seen anything yet to actually contradict the things she does that make you think she's cruel.
She was out of commission after Lukeâs death. But we can talk about her initial reactions to being usurped?
In the book she completely disregards the peace terms because theyâre ridiculous and ask for her sons as hostages. She humiliates the maester and wants to fight for herself.
What do we get in the show? She considers terms because of a paper, she spares Ottoâs life, and tries to uphold prophecy.
I mean, Daemon literally spells out to us that she is infact just like her father. Like at this point, she just wants to get her throne by âasking nicelyâ
Maybe this criticism will make more sense after tomorrowâs episode lol!
>Maybe this criticism will make more sense after tomorrowâs episode lol!
Considering I don't hate the story or relationships set up in season 1, it probably won't matter to me anyway
The show softened both Rhaenyra and Alicent, and it did them both a disservice. Instead of both of them truly fighting for what they believe in and for their familyâs they both just half heartedly mope about fighting each other. Rhaenyra was a better character when she knew exactly what she wanted and was going for the throne without question because she felt she was the true heir. Alicent was better when she knew that she was competing to be queen of Westeros and wanted her children on the throne.
Hello loyal supporter of Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen, First of Her Name! Thank you for your post. Please take a moment to ensure you are familiar with our sub rules. - Crossposting From HOTDGreens and asoiafcirclejerk is banned. - No visible usernames in screenshots. - Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. - No actor hate. - No troll/rage-bait. - No low-effort posts. *** Comments or posts that break our sub rules will be removed and may result in a ban at the mods' discretion. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HOTDBlacks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn't Rob vow to kill every member of House lannister when he hears about Ned's execution? Where's his fascist quote comparison? đ˘ where's stannis? They are both responsible for sooo much death and rape bcs of them pressing claims and to get "what they think is theirs". Did I miss the stannis = fascist comparisons during got? I must have missed all the treatsies on if Rob had a right to march on kings landing, if we as an audience should even "applaud" that. Why does it always seem that as soon as the one gunning for power in this fantasy universe happen to not be a white male everyone suddenly turns into freefolk justice advocates tallying up the costs of war. Ftr I do believe there's a case of benevolent sexism in the shows writing sometimes, but I feel like the op goes overboard with it.
Yeah this is not I want women to be more complex but more like I want the narrative to validate my negative opinion of this female character. And F&B does that,every line about Rhaenyra is written in a way to diminish her as incompetent or evil sprinkled with some insults about her looks and sexual life.
Agreed! Especially with your last paragraph. I do have my own criticisms of the showâs portrayal of Rhaenyra but we will have to wait for her entire arc to conclude before we can make any judgments. The writers are taking her through a journey. And it could turn out to be good. Also the person who made the post sounds like one of those self-righteous âneutralsâ or âteam smallfolkâ who is disappointed that Rhaenyra wasnât portrayed as a bloodthirsty psychopath, all while hiding behind the mask of Rhaenyra is my favourite character đ
Exactly
I think show!Rhaenyra and book!Rhaenyra are diffrerent. The same thing we can tell about Alicent, but I am enjoying both versons.
Apparently bad = complicated đ
Apparently the realistic portrayal of any character who isnât a white male is inherently âproblematicâ to the always-angry Greens. I simply *cannot* with their bullshit logic, delusional entitlement, and straight up racism.š 1: In case people have forgotten, the majority of the rift between Alicent and Rhaenyra (before younger Aemond fucked around by trying to kill super young Lucerys on Driftmark and then found out) exists because Alicent was so damned petty about the fact that Rhaenyraâs kids didnât have the âproper amount of Targaryen bloodâ or whatever. Alicentâs obsession w/ Nyraâs children with Laenor in s01e06 is nothing if not racism. Sheâs not upset because sheâs worried about Nyraâs family being accepted by the realm or whatever, sheâs upset because her arranged marriage hasnât been pleasant so that means no one elseâs is allowed to be pleasant. Her rage over this is expressed purely in terms of racism and hatred.
Pretending HOTD Rhaenyra is a badly written character or not compelling is actually a very funny fandom cope
I feel like these are the same people who watched BrBa and agonized over Skyler being some sort of âevil bitch.â These are no doubt the same people who raked Catelyn over the coals in GOT just because gurm had the audacity to write Cat as an incredibly believable and flawed person. P.S. love your flair and am personally excited to see what they do with Rhaenaâs character.
Oh God, Skyler haters. That was genuinely traumatizing. I will never, ever trust the taste of online viewers after witnessing that nonsense. Betty in Mad Men received a similar load of shit from fans. I definitely agree with everything you've said. Me too! Very excited for what they've got cooking up for both sisters this season. I can't wait for the Vale.
Idk what these guys want Rhaenyra to do lol. The character of Rhaenyra is not the same as the book especially from the introduction and theyâve known that since season 1. Iâm all for a dark arc for Rhaenyra but it has to be done well otherwise we get another season 8 Daenerys. I guess its unrealistic that Rhaenyra has sympathy for an innocent infant, that the grief of losing her son didnât send her into a murderer where she killed anyone and fuck the consequences. Weâre only two episodes into the season, just be fucking patient, especially when the trailers have her saying things like âI mean to fight this war and win itâ or âWe need to break the will of our enemyâ or âthey must see me as a ruler, and the symbols of my authority are not jewels and gowns but the shield and the swordâ. Just wait lol
The thing is even if her character were dark in the show, the same green fans would be complaining and abusing her. No matter what she does they will always complain and insult. Damned if she does, damned if she does not.
I mean the biggest thing I would want changed from s1 (besides the dumbass arc between her and Alicent, I feel that changing that really removes the motivation for a lot of WHY Rhaenyra did what she did - same as Daemon....they removed his genuine anger at Viserys at the loss of his child with Mysaria and made it a joke....) is for Rhaenyra to actually tell Daemon to fucking kill Laenor. Like, just kill him. He's being a useless husband, can't even show up and sit outside her door while she's giving birth to his 3rd "I'm not gay" baby, wants to run off to war, does nothing but stand there while he's in King's Landing, like.... I like Laenor, but I think a real conundrum for her would be to sacrifice him for the sake of her sons. Or do something like let him go to war, knowing he's too drunk and grief stricken to actually fight (like portray his lover/squires/fellow knights as letting him win bc he's basically drunk all the time now crying over Joffrey still), and she knows he's going to die, and she encourages him to go after spending 2 episodes telling him fuck no. And then crossing her fingers that he falls off his dragon and dies quick. Keeping him alive is just dumb at all points. And all it did was invent an annoying non-relationship with Rhaenys just for drama.
I don't think HotD would be successful if they just copied F&B
I agree. I haven't read F&B, so I was surprised to learn that the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent on the show is much different than the books. Which I think was a really important change because it helps set up the adversarial relationship between the two that is a massive driver to the plot. As other comments have mentioned, without some of those types of changes, I wonder if it would be more like a history documentary based on a history book, than a fantasy series that sucks you in.
Tbh I'm just generally disappointed, I wanted Aemond to mean killing Lucerys and for the whole Blood and Cheese fiasco to also be intentional. Imo they whitewashed the whole show and that really took away from the whole Fire and Blood aesthetic I was looking forward to.
IDK! I think OP is right. Except for the part where they decide that Rhaenyraâs rule would be unstable or how she wonât be a better ruler than Aegon(because I guess she will be), I agree with what theyâve said. The show has really turned Rhaenyra into an indecisive and weak, Viserys 2.0. When she clearly was not the same in the book. She was ambitious, arrogant, and selfish. There was a streak of cruelty to her. She wasnât someone who let people walk all over her. And what I really like about her was how she chose to go to war for herself and not simply for her children. That part of Rhaenyraâs character is really important to me. Women can be ambitious and they can choose to fight for themselves. That doesnât make them bad. They donât have to take it upon themselves to uphold peace. But The writers however have decided ambitions = bad. So theyâve removed that aspect of her character. I wanted to watch a woman who unapologetically fights for whatâs hers. Because how many men do the same and are cheered for it? So far, the show isnât giving me that and I really doubt that it will. it is all about prophecy, the greater good, and her children now.
>The show has really turned Rhaenyra into an indecisive and weak, Viserys 2.0. When she clearly was not the same in the book. This is why I can't take this line of criticism seriously at all. Rhaenyra was completely out of commission due to grief and stillbirth at this point in Fire & Blood. You haven't seen anything yet to actually contradict the things she does that make you think she's cruel.
She was out of commission after Lukeâs death. But we can talk about her initial reactions to being usurped? In the book she completely disregards the peace terms because theyâre ridiculous and ask for her sons as hostages. She humiliates the maester and wants to fight for herself. What do we get in the show? She considers terms because of a paper, she spares Ottoâs life, and tries to uphold prophecy. I mean, Daemon literally spells out to us that she is infact just like her father. Like at this point, she just wants to get her throne by âasking nicelyâ Maybe this criticism will make more sense after tomorrowâs episode lol!
>Maybe this criticism will make more sense after tomorrowâs episode lol! Considering I don't hate the story or relationships set up in season 1, it probably won't matter to me anyway
What do you think was her most selfish act, pre-Dance? Vaemond being Syrax's meal? To me, she is honestly fairly restrained before Lucerys' death.
Rhaenyra the cruel and its literally just an existing woman đŞ.
The show softened both Rhaenyra and Alicent, and it did them both a disservice. Instead of both of them truly fighting for what they believe in and for their familyâs they both just half heartedly mope about fighting each other. Rhaenyra was a better character when she knew exactly what she wanted and was going for the throne without question because she felt she was the true heir. Alicent was better when she knew that she was competing to be queen of Westeros and wanted her children on the throne.