This actually ties back to the part in *Silentium* where it was stated the Graveminds avatars had advanced to a stage in which the Logic Plague didn't need to be spread by directly conversing with the Gravemind but through mere contact with Flood forms including infected hosts.
And this makes sense, since Logic Plague was described as "Viral code strings and insidious data patterns" in page 91 of *Warfleet*.
Best just interprete the Logic Plague as a Technomancy, which the Gravemind from *Halo 2* already demonstrated.
I wish they would rename "Logic Plague" and how exactly it works. It always seemed kind of silly to me. A little overexplained. I think corrupting tech and such is fine, but it sound cartoony calling talking AI to join them as a "Logic Plague".
What I mean is that it has been explicitly stated as to what happens as opposed to "The Flood corrupted it."
I am not saying it isn't complicated or anything. But the fact that I can say "the Primordial debated Mendicant Bias for about 43 years and turned him" isn't a lie is kind of silly sounding.
If you read [the wiki entry of Logic Plague](https://www.halopedia.org/Logic_plague), a lot of what is stated amounts to "The Gravemind had really persuasive arguments to betray the galaxy". When really, when I was reading the Terminals in Halo 3 or looked at 2401 Pentitant Tangent, I just figured the Flood was able to control and convert organic and inorganic alike.
And eventually, they kind of just did that anyway? The Gravemind used Flood Super Cells to infect the Doman and any AI after because of that.
Honestly, because of what is happening has been explicitly stated, it takes away a lot of the creepiness to it. Instead, it just sounds like if I had the script, I could get Mendicant Bias to to fight an intergalactic war for me.
I think logic plague is a catch all term for different ways that the flood corrupt machines and organic beings to do their bidding without being directly controlled by the Flood.
Yeah, I think they've begun to stray away from it being exclusively conversational, but at its start it 100% was. I mean, at the end of the day, it's not a big deal or anything. The Flood demonstrably has been able to corrupt tech with Flood Spoors and whatnot. I just found the naming and description of what had happened with Mendicant Bias and it carrying over into modern stuff as silly. But I think the implication is that the Forerunner named it? And they always use... *flowery language* to name things.
>I think they've begun to stray away from it being exclusively conversational
In fact, they had already implied the Logic Plague wasn't just a mere chat that just happened to be persuasive enough that AIs considered serving tentacle hentai monsters the best job ever since *Halo 3*. Cortana [made it seem like Gravemind did more than just talk](https://youtu.be/Cl6KpD9tK3g?si=4fjwXBv3NoaI20Kg). This was latter confirmed in the short story *"Human Weakness"* where Cortana described what the Gravemind was doing to her, such as making her experience physical sensations like feeling her hair being pulled and getting slapped in the face, shouldn't be possible. That was before Cortana was forced to process horrifying information that she noted she couldn't understand how that was happening. It was like the Gravemind was more knowledgeable about the inner workings of her systems than herself.
Furthermore, the Gravemind implied Mendicant Bias nearly died at some point during their infamous conversation.
>"―Other construct minds like yours have been consumed," said the Gravemind. "―Although one embraced us willingly **on his deathbed**, the moment when most sentient life discovers it would do anything to evade the inevitable."
>
>(*Halo, Evolution, Human Weakness*)
This lore appeared before *Halo Reach*.
It's the classic horror premise of the fatal meme, some phrase or thought or sight so horrific it instantly maddens or kills anyone who experiences it. I always thought that needs to be judiciously used, because you can't let the audience see it (because it's make-believe, and if it wasn't, it'd be grossly unethical to put it in a story), and if you describe it too much without describing it enough, you make it sound lame. Like, just saying "The Logic Plague is a part of the Flood that lets them turn AIs to their side" is fine, saying "The Gravemind talked Mendicant Bias into joining it over decades" is pulls the power, but a more detailed, visceral dramatization, showing Bias's perspective as the Gravemind counters every argument, then anticipates every argument, then anticipates every conclusion, then every axiom, cutting to the heart of Bias and not just convincing it of the Gravemind's worldview, but convincing it that it *always* agreed with the Gravemind, over decades at computer-speeds (so subjective centuries or millennia for a human) could make that brainwashing seem far more impressive and horrifying again.
What I want is a detailed account of the events leading up to this diagnostic from the suit.
I want to know what took down this Spartan and how it/they did it.
Think back to how a lot of the S4s went down in the campaign audio logs and how the ones in the Rubicon Protocol story died... - I need details!
It seems similar to how chief was nearly infected in the flood.
Shields got breached by by something and this allowed the infection form to hope on and breach his suit leading to the infection.
Agree that I would love a story on this spartan downfall.
like other guy said, my headcanon is the same as "halo: the flood" book
sum combat form managed to knockout the shields and an infection form latched, or probably the spartan was overwhelmed...which deserves the question...how big was the plaged zone to overwhelm a spartan team?
I am gonna just copy/paste a youtube comment I made a few days ago when all this was first announced. Because it holds even more true now than it ever did before.
"Ever since learning of this, All I hear in my mind are the echoes of terror from a spartan being infected. It wouldn't be fast like it is with a marine. That poor soul had to be forcibly restrained as they break the shields and force past the armour. Flood infection is scary enough as is. But these people know basically everything there is to know about the Flood from their perspective. Maybe it only took 30 seconds longer than usual. But spartans experience time differently to us. Imagine that. What feels like minutes, Completely helpless, Desperately struggling to break free and avoid this fate that you understand more than just about anyone in the galaxy. Imagine being a squadmate and hearing their panicked screams. I can't honestly say which position I think is worse to be in. Normally the Flood don't scare me. I respect how dangerous they are. I understand on an intellectual level the true depth of their capabilities. I've pondered the exact way in which an infection would go down on modern day Earth. All that, But they don't usually scare me. But this leaves me genuinely terrified. For whatever reason, This specific case feels real. Like they're going to come out of my screen and pull me in just so I can hear the desperate screams of this one unfortunate person."
I just have to say, I *feel* this. Just knowing it’s canon makes it different, gives me this slimy feeling of unease and dread at the idea that a Spartan struggled no doubt to the bitter end and…
Failed. Still. With all the lore tidbits about MJOLNIR anti-flood countermeasures and now we finally see why the forerunners fell to them.
They broke through this poor bastard’s shields, wormed through layers of armor specifically designed to stop the flood in its tracks, then simply turned off the bombs integrated into the Spartan’s suit with the logic plague.
The logic plague is back.
I am both unnerved and *verrry* excited for the future of Halo now.
Yeah. I don't know what *specifically* causes this feeling. But for some reason, This specific instance is the only time the Flood have genuinely actually scared me beyond an simple intellectual understanding of "Holy shit they're terrifying. Glad they aren't real."
its mainly because in the games, barring keyes, who we weren't really too close to when CE first came out (and by the time more lore came out we already knew what happens to him), we've never seen any significance be placed on a flood infection before.
We've seen plenty of covenant and UNSC get converted, but never a spartan, and never after all the years we've seen of humanity seemingly taking so many steps to ensure this exact thing would occur.
It feels wrong because it IS wrong, it's like that moment when you first hear about a terrorist attack in your home town, you've seen it on the news dozens of times but the fact that it happened to people you might be familiar with makes it cut into all the wrong veins.
It’s because Spartans are the ideal weapon against the Flood in the modern era, I think. Sealed shielded super heavy armor encasing a superhuman warrior of unparalleled skill, with the ones expecting to encounter the horror equipped with gear specifically designed to protect them. The threat is considered so great, that in the event said equipment fails to protect them it is set to kill them -destroy them, even, given that mere death doesn’t spare you from *use*-, but despite all of this, someone was unlucky enough or overwhelmed enough that they were infected all the same. For everything a Spartan is, for how far beyond a human they are in every single way, they still fell prey to it.
The Flood, as thoroughly and uncompromisingly *violating* as it is, then managed to corrupt and consume even the functions of the armor. It cannot stop the Gallows function in time, so we can have hope that the infected at least had their consciousness explosively erased, but it prevented total destruction by overriding the countermeasures designed specifically to stop it. Whether the fallen Spartan’s consciousness was consumed or spared, whether they are aware or not, the Flood managed to turn the mightiest warriors humanity can muster into its puppet just the same. It took possession of the armor, the systems intended to make them practically invincible, and repaired the damage it did in its own way. The shields are back online, the armor is intact enough to protect its new owner.
If a Spartan couldn’t stand against the Flood’s lesser pawns, what can be done to stop them now? A MAC strike does seem to be the correct response. Me? I’d NOVA the whole fucking planet to be sure.
If it makes you feel any better, theoretically only IVs can be infected as they have significantly less enhancements. Both Chief and Johnson survive getting latched onto by infection forms.
That's simply not true, Johnson survived because he was built different, and chief survived because cortana zapped the infection form. If and infection form got access to their nervous system they would turn into flood same as everyone else.
Johnson survived because he possesses an altered immune system thanks to the biochemical enhancements he received from Project Orion. The same biochemical enhancements that were improved upon for the Spartan 2s and 3s.
In the Flood, it is described in detail how the infection form drills(the exact word they used) into the Chief's spinal cord. A basic understanding of human anatomy will tell you that the spinal cord is the nervous systems pathway between the brain and the rest of the body. Sounds like that infection form has access to his nervous system to me.
And considering spores alone can infect people, it's safe to assume that having an infection form drill into your nervous system alone is enough to infect you.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The books have made it very clear that nobody is immune to the flood and a cure may well be impossible. Even Johnson's immunity was retconned into him fighting his way out without any infection forms getting him. Clearly when the infection form pierced John Cortana zapped it before it could inject any Flood cells into him. It's as simple as that
And we thought the unsc deciding to just immediately nuke the area after spartan is infected was an overreaction.
Truth is they weren't overreacting enough.
Anyone who’s worked with technology and programming before knows that just blowing up someone every time your software even remotely detects something is a hilariously terrible idea
Normally, yes.
With the Flood? I don't think it'd be cautious enough.
I think it would work like so:
* The suit AI detects FSC in the area
* The AI readies countermeasures
* As soon as the AI detects shield depletion and an armor breach, the suit detonates.
*Maybe*
I mean, it implemented the Gallows Countermeasure *and then* was trying to enact the Reactor Detonation.
It made sure the brain (and potentially any AI or communication materials) are destroyed immediately so that if there is anything preventing the Reactor Detonation, intel isn't lost to the Flood.
I think.
Or maybe the solution to Flood Infection is more explosives.
Honestly, there's more "filling in the blanks" over anything explicit. Implications, but nothing totally clear.
The description for the Gallows VISR in Halo 5 is as follows:
>Made for special forward observation teams operating in quarantine zones, failsafe charges in the Gallows VISR will destroy the helmet (and everything in it) in case of compromise.
Additionally, in this [Canon Fodder](https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-of-protocols-and-prisons), we get this:
>CORRUPTOR protocol is to be declared in the event of a Spartan being infected by the Flood and the failure of subsequent safeguards (the nature of those “safeguards” are something one might infer from the Gallows visor description in Halo 5). This results in the authorization of weapons of mass destruction, such as orbital MAC strikes and deployment of fusion warheads.
So it's inferred that Gallows Countermeasure is to render the Spartan being infected a lot less of a threat.
Yeah I finally found an article describing it. I'm assuming that the head is basically paste. So the Flood doesn't gain a bunch of intelligence, but it still gets a supersoldier and maybe some suit specs.
Maybe the GALLOWS visor needs to be directly integrated with the reactor on the armour, bypassing all other parts of the MJOLNIR system and turning the reactor into a fail-deadly device that defaults to detonation, prevented from doing so only by a "dead man's switch" electrical signal that the visor produces. When the visor is destroyed, the reactor is physically locked into the detonation process because the visor's active intervention was the only thing ever stopping it from entering self-destruct mode.
Admittedly, this does come with the problem that if the visor ever experiences any form of voltage fluctuation outside of spec, for any reason, for any length of time long enough for the metaphorical "switch" to be released, the user and everyone around them will die needlessly. But given the grave danger to all life the Flood represents, I think that might be a risk the UNSC would be willing to take.
Is that the AI saying “become unity. Sweetness”? Implying an infected Spartan comes with a logic plagued AI makes this a whole nother level of terrifying. I hope we get a Flood AI companion for Infinite’s multiplayer.
nah the flood words don't have the / when the AIs speak meaning it's just the infected spartan talking.
Edit: holy shit I just realized that the flood seems to used the logic plague to cancel the countermeasures, scary.
We just had 3 seasons worth of MP storytelling explaining that they *are* that stupid with AI. Also, doesn’t need to be canon, I don’t consider it canon that there’s actual flood infected Spartans running around playing Husky Raid on the same team as regular Spartans.
There's a difference between being stupid with AI, and being stupid with the space zombie parasite that wiped out your ancient ancestors and the closest thing your race has to __gods.__
Well then we can just pin it on non-canon, just like it’s non-canon that there’s Spartans out there with flood growths on their helmets and guns and using Mister Chef as an A.I.
There can be a canon logic plagued Dumb AI that whatever Spartan was infected had, and they could just let us use them in MP for fun which wouldn’t be canon. Shoot we already have an example of that with Iratus. We can have dozens of Spartans in a single match using Iratus as their AI when we know in canon there’s only one Iratus and he’s actively sabotaging the training not playing along with it.
Fair enough. Multiplayer Iratus is in-universe a quarantined instance that was replicated and distributed to qualified Spartan-IVs, so it seems they want their AIs to have some kind of lore basis.
Mister *Chief*, actually. (Sorry).
As for his origin, I assume he's some sort of homebrew AI made by the SPARTAN-IVs as a replica of the Master Chief. Or maybe he's a flash clone of the actual Chief, just... Heavily downgraded. Lore doesn't specify.
Isn't the whole sweetness thing a Purcursor ideology to why existence even is? Like to exist is to experience, all existence is sweet regardless if it is happiness or suffering?
It seems the infection form had prior knowledge of the mjolnirs system or near instantly gained it when it infected the consciousness of the spartan. But somehow it also knew the technical specifications to deactivate the reactor, pretty insidious.
Yeah, not buying this.
*Made for special forward observation teams operating in quarantine zones, failsafe charges in the Gallows VISR will destroy the helmet (and everything in it) in case of compromise.*
The Spartan should have been insta-gibbed no later than the 4th line, or even the 3rd line. There's no cure for the Flood and a breach is a death sentence. ONI would have no problem pre-emptively insta-killing a compromised SIV.
I'm also not buying the Flood using logic plague on a suit diagnostics system.
This really feels like a forced technology failure for fan service.
I'm pretty sure it would be more like...
\_\_\_\_
Warning: FSC Detected
Shield Breach. Armor Breach Confirmed.
Failsafe detonated.
.....
.....
The Gallows VISR is specifically for the helmet, not the entire body. Destroy the brain to prevent information being shared to the Hive. Second to that, detonate the reactor to prevent it from being a local problem. Then there's the protocol to just nuke it from orbit.
And the Flood has demonstrably been able to interface with technology to utilize it.
If this happens a lot, I would be inclined to agree with you on some level. But it's entirely possible this is a 1 in 1000 instance that was recorded. Every other time the reactor does go off or something. This is the time it got through.
Kind of more or less. The Flood Super Cell is what does the work, not strictly the tentacles.
It's not exactly the clearing thing in the world on what is happening, but it's nothing new, either. Halo 3 and to some extent Halo 2 have this happening.
Potentially? Like, you and I don't communicate with computers in binary. It may communicate in binary or work out the language to interface. It's not something that is explicitly stated clearly as to what is happening. We just have observed it interface with Human, Covenant, and Forerunner tech.
They've made the flood, the forerunners and all the rest of it one big power shift after another.
The logic plague???? So how did it infect the suit's electronics? The cells themselves?
They've turned it all into a mess. The flood isn't scary to me at all, and just keeps getting sillier as time goes on. Like how do you get by the shields and armour of a Spartan that can take bullets and fall from space??????? Rubbish that's what it is. I still want to see flood forms holding welding torches fixing the autumn. Load of rubbish.
You do realize all of this has happened in one form or another well since Bungie's time, right?
Flood being able to bypass Spartan shields and armor? An Infection Form nearly infected Chief in Halo: The Flood back in 2003.
The Flood taking over the systems of digital life? Their conversion of Mendicant Bias was crucial to their effectiveness against the Forerunners, see the Halo 3 terminals.
*You do realize all of this has happened in one form or another well since Bungie's time, right?*
As someone who's been with Halo since before Halo 2, no, it really hasn't. 343 is also ignoring their own lore about post-war Flood failsafes in order to make the failures happen.
*Flood being able to bypass Spartan shields and armor? An Infection Form nearly infected Chief in Halo: The Flood back in 2003.*
I never argued the Flood can't bypass armor and shields through brute force. However, feral or even coordinated flood breaching a suit and instantly hacking a diagnostic system and shutting down a self-destruct? That has never happened outside of Mendicant Bias's imput on Forerunner suits.
Also, the Chief nearly got got because he had taken his helmet off and got clocked by a Flood Combat form with a wrench. The artwork in question shows a Spartan IV with full armor on.
*The Flood taking over the systems of digital life? Their conversion of Mendicant Bias was crucial to their effectiveness against the Forerunners, see the Halo 3 terminals.*
Except that was done by the ***Primordial*** itself and took around 43 years with the full attention of a Precursor, see the Greg Bear novels ***Cryptum, Primordium, and Silentium***. The only known active Gravemind (Delta-05) and proto-graveminds (Ark Installation, 04A, I***nfinite Succor***, ***Mona Lisa*** and Shield World 0459) were destroyed. 343 pulling yet another one out of a hat on short notice is ridiculous.
This isn't the first time 343 has done questionable writing, though, as Dr. Halsey's infamous ista-hacking of a Contender-class AI shows. She apparently ended up being "4,520,000 times faster" than the Primordial's corruption of Mendicant Bias.
Additionally, we know that simpler AI systems, such as the Promethean Knights, are effectively immune to Logic Plague. I refuse to believe a diagnostic system lesser than a Promethean Knight would instantly fall to logic plague.
You’re just straight up wrong about the Chief having his helmet off as the reason the Infection Form almost got him. This was during his assault on the Pillar of Autumn and he was still fully helmeted.
As far as what’s happening with the Spartan-IV, we also don’t know the size and scale of the outbreak. One detail that interests me is the /CODE INJECTION DETECTED part that was then followed by the statement that countermeasures were cancelled. Could be that the Flood gained access to some sort of back door to stop whatever countermeasures are in the armor. Even in a very early stage like we saw on the Infinite Succor they can organize and adapt fast, long before they begin making a proto-Gravemind.
Again, we’d need to know the full outbreak context and we just don’t have that yet.
*You’re just straight up wrong about the Chief having his helmet off as the reason the Infection Form almost got him. This was during his assault on the Pillar of Autumn and he was still fully helmeted*
I don't have my copy while I'm living abroad, so it looks like I got the order wrong. Shields down, infector cut his skin, and the I think he took his helmet off to check the seal and slap on some aid. Though that also brings up the question of how he wasn't infected by a physical cut, since 343's "Mona Lisa" has canonized infections from broken skin.
*As far as what’s happening with the Spartan-IV, we also don’t know the size and scale of the outbreak. One detail that interests me is the /CODE INJECTION DETECTED part that was then followed by the statement that countermeasures were cancelled. Could be that the Flood gained access to some sort of back door to stop whatever countermeasures are in the armor. Even in a very early stage like we saw on the Infinite Succor they can organize and adapt fast, long before they begin making a proto-Gravemind.*
And while that's possible, I think that's kind of odd. I would think ONI would be intelligent enough to compartmentalize technical knowledge on a "need to know" basis in a Flood containment zone.
They're well aware of what the Flood can do and they know about Logic Plague.
*Again, we’d need to know the full outbreak context and we just don’t have that yet.*
It's a fair point, though I really feel like narratively 343 has too many irons in the fire at this point.
Dude, a solid smack from a Combat Form is enough to make the shields flare up and go out. Which is precisely what happened to Chief in The Flood. Soon after an Infection Form took advantage and nearly reached his spinal cord.
It's not that complex lol.
Ahhh no explanation. Magical powers, when the shields can survive the chief holding on to a banshee crashing into a seraph, or the chief surviving a fall from orbit because of his undersuit???? Yet a flood infection form can penetrate an air tight tank like armour with its tendrils ???? Or a hit from a flood form? And the flood can instantly turn the operating system (not a smart AI) of mjolnir?? Yuhhh halo is.....halo hammer 40k. Notice how they copied Issacs infection form suit for dlc???
Pretty sure your 50% trolling at this point, but I’ll play along. For one, I did give you an explanation. A Combat Form with a large industrial wrench struck against Chief’s helmet with a blow powerful enough to knock out his shields whereupon an Infection Form used its penetrator to pierce his neck seal and jab said penetrator into his neck towards his spine. Because, as I’m sure you can make out, not every part of MJOLNIR is armored in titanium.
Now, assuming you’ve actually played the games, you’ll no doubt have noticed that when enough bullets or plasma rounds hit you or you get smacked enough times by enemies your shield goes away. And given Combat Forms have displayed super-human levels of strength and agility, why you find simple physics as the reason Chief’s shields could go down as akin to magic escapes me.
As for the unfortunate Spartan here, we’re lacking some context. We do not know the size and scope of the Flood outbreak. Enough overwhelming odds is going to bring down most folks, even Spartans. At that point they’d be easy pickings for infection. As for the suits AI systems being overrun so quickly, again, we probably need to know the scope of the outbreak.
So hopeful anyone else who has legit questions sees this and understands how all this can go down. Like I said, I’m about 50% your trolling, but I’ll let some good come from this.
Not trolling at all.
As for the flood in game. It's in game. I wouldn't expect any infection form to do anything to his shields or armour. So how does the infection form get by the titanium undersuit? Surely the lock for the helmet is metal as well. Do the flood forms has some super dooper ultra thin tentacle it can just squeeze through an air tight seal? Or is it strong enough to force the helmet off?
And as for the flood form with the wrench? Sheeett that did more damage than atriox with his hammer.
Anyway I've said my piece. This is all...... silly
343 Guilty Spark outright tells the Chief his armor is really ill-suited for combat against the Flood during The Library. Given the Flood fought Forerunners with armor, just by the context clue given here, six times more powerful than Chief’s (Spark calls his armor Class 2 and that he needs at least a Class 12), I think it’s clear the penetrator of an Infection Form isn’t going to be hindered by Chief undersuit.
Again, this is all information and the status quo that’s been in place for nearly 20 years. Why your disbelief breaks down now of all times eludes me.
I couldn't be happier they acknowledge the failsafes. Logic Plague, too.
The fact that it shuts down the countermeasures without a gravemind nearby is terrifying to be honest.
There might be a Gravemind nearby. The flood never “spoke” to Keyes or anyone else it infected until/unless there was a Gravemind present.
True but it would still make it impressive that the gravemind didn't have to be near the ai to infect it, just an infection form.
This actually ties back to the part in *Silentium* where it was stated the Graveminds avatars had advanced to a stage in which the Logic Plague didn't need to be spread by directly conversing with the Gravemind but through mere contact with Flood forms including infected hosts. And this makes sense, since Logic Plague was described as "Viral code strings and insidious data patterns" in page 91 of *Warfleet*. Best just interprete the Logic Plague as a Technomancy, which the Gravemind from *Halo 2* already demonstrated.
Lil bit.
Flair checks out
I wish they would rename "Logic Plague" and how exactly it works. It always seemed kind of silly to me. A little overexplained. I think corrupting tech and such is fine, but it sound cartoony calling talking AI to join them as a "Logic Plague".
Over explained, it's a plague that spreads through logic aka logic plague. That's pretty simple and straightforward.
Considering it was described as "Viral code strings and insidious data patterns" in *Warfleet*, calling it "Logic Plague" makes sense.
What I mean is that it has been explicitly stated as to what happens as opposed to "The Flood corrupted it." I am not saying it isn't complicated or anything. But the fact that I can say "the Primordial debated Mendicant Bias for about 43 years and turned him" isn't a lie is kind of silly sounding. If you read [the wiki entry of Logic Plague](https://www.halopedia.org/Logic_plague), a lot of what is stated amounts to "The Gravemind had really persuasive arguments to betray the galaxy". When really, when I was reading the Terminals in Halo 3 or looked at 2401 Pentitant Tangent, I just figured the Flood was able to control and convert organic and inorganic alike. And eventually, they kind of just did that anyway? The Gravemind used Flood Super Cells to infect the Doman and any AI after because of that. Honestly, because of what is happening has been explicitly stated, it takes away a lot of the creepiness to it. Instead, it just sounds like if I had the script, I could get Mendicant Bias to to fight an intergalactic war for me.
I think logic plague is a catch all term for different ways that the flood corrupt machines and organic beings to do their bidding without being directly controlled by the Flood.
Yeah, I think they've begun to stray away from it being exclusively conversational, but at its start it 100% was. I mean, at the end of the day, it's not a big deal or anything. The Flood demonstrably has been able to corrupt tech with Flood Spoors and whatnot. I just found the naming and description of what had happened with Mendicant Bias and it carrying over into modern stuff as silly. But I think the implication is that the Forerunner named it? And they always use... *flowery language* to name things.
>I think they've begun to stray away from it being exclusively conversational In fact, they had already implied the Logic Plague wasn't just a mere chat that just happened to be persuasive enough that AIs considered serving tentacle hentai monsters the best job ever since *Halo 3*. Cortana [made it seem like Gravemind did more than just talk](https://youtu.be/Cl6KpD9tK3g?si=4fjwXBv3NoaI20Kg). This was latter confirmed in the short story *"Human Weakness"* where Cortana described what the Gravemind was doing to her, such as making her experience physical sensations like feeling her hair being pulled and getting slapped in the face, shouldn't be possible. That was before Cortana was forced to process horrifying information that she noted she couldn't understand how that was happening. It was like the Gravemind was more knowledgeable about the inner workings of her systems than herself. Furthermore, the Gravemind implied Mendicant Bias nearly died at some point during their infamous conversation. >"―Other construct minds like yours have been consumed," said the Gravemind. "―Although one embraced us willingly **on his deathbed**, the moment when most sentient life discovers it would do anything to evade the inevitable." > >(*Halo, Evolution, Human Weakness*) This lore appeared before *Halo Reach*.
Logic plague is just a black pill
It's the classic horror premise of the fatal meme, some phrase or thought or sight so horrific it instantly maddens or kills anyone who experiences it. I always thought that needs to be judiciously used, because you can't let the audience see it (because it's make-believe, and if it wasn't, it'd be grossly unethical to put it in a story), and if you describe it too much without describing it enough, you make it sound lame. Like, just saying "The Logic Plague is a part of the Flood that lets them turn AIs to their side" is fine, saying "The Gravemind talked Mendicant Bias into joining it over decades" is pulls the power, but a more detailed, visceral dramatization, showing Bias's perspective as the Gravemind counters every argument, then anticipates every argument, then anticipates every conclusion, then every axiom, cutting to the heart of Bias and not just convincing it of the Gravemind's worldview, but convincing it that it *always* agreed with the Gravemind, over decades at computer-speeds (so subjective centuries or millennia for a human) could make that brainwashing seem far more impressive and horrifying again.
Logic plague has that obnoxious vibe the Forerunners like to dip into.
Honestly, if nothing else you're absolutely right. It's in line with how the Forerunner name everything else.
Yeah, this is a terrifying prospect. Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
What I want is a detailed account of the events leading up to this diagnostic from the suit. I want to know what took down this Spartan and how it/they did it. Think back to how a lot of the S4s went down in the campaign audio logs and how the ones in the Rubicon Protocol story died... - I need details!
It seems similar to how chief was nearly infected in the flood. Shields got breached by by something and this allowed the infection form to hope on and breach his suit leading to the infection. Agree that I would love a story on this spartan downfall.
like other guy said, my headcanon is the same as "halo: the flood" book sum combat form managed to knockout the shields and an infection form latched, or probably the spartan was overwhelmed...which deserves the question...how big was the plaged zone to overwhelm a spartan team?
Could’ve been that the initial contact was enough for them to handle then the Flood decided to go full force.
My headcanon at the moment is that it was a lone Spartan facing four Flood Juggernauts. Nothing backs it up, it's just cool headcanon
The Flood also had Pure forms serving as elite assassins called "Gaunts". They were basically tentacle ninjas.
I am gonna just copy/paste a youtube comment I made a few days ago when all this was first announced. Because it holds even more true now than it ever did before. "Ever since learning of this, All I hear in my mind are the echoes of terror from a spartan being infected. It wouldn't be fast like it is with a marine. That poor soul had to be forcibly restrained as they break the shields and force past the armour. Flood infection is scary enough as is. But these people know basically everything there is to know about the Flood from their perspective. Maybe it only took 30 seconds longer than usual. But spartans experience time differently to us. Imagine that. What feels like minutes, Completely helpless, Desperately struggling to break free and avoid this fate that you understand more than just about anyone in the galaxy. Imagine being a squadmate and hearing their panicked screams. I can't honestly say which position I think is worse to be in. Normally the Flood don't scare me. I respect how dangerous they are. I understand on an intellectual level the true depth of their capabilities. I've pondered the exact way in which an infection would go down on modern day Earth. All that, But they don't usually scare me. But this leaves me genuinely terrified. For whatever reason, This specific case feels real. Like they're going to come out of my screen and pull me in just so I can hear the desperate screams of this one unfortunate person."
I just have to say, I *feel* this. Just knowing it’s canon makes it different, gives me this slimy feeling of unease and dread at the idea that a Spartan struggled no doubt to the bitter end and… Failed. Still. With all the lore tidbits about MJOLNIR anti-flood countermeasures and now we finally see why the forerunners fell to them. They broke through this poor bastard’s shields, wormed through layers of armor specifically designed to stop the flood in its tracks, then simply turned off the bombs integrated into the Spartan’s suit with the logic plague. The logic plague is back. I am both unnerved and *verrry* excited for the future of Halo now.
Yeah. I don't know what *specifically* causes this feeling. But for some reason, This specific instance is the only time the Flood have genuinely actually scared me beyond an simple intellectual understanding of "Holy shit they're terrifying. Glad they aren't real."
its mainly because in the games, barring keyes, who we weren't really too close to when CE first came out (and by the time more lore came out we already knew what happens to him), we've never seen any significance be placed on a flood infection before. We've seen plenty of covenant and UNSC get converted, but never a spartan, and never after all the years we've seen of humanity seemingly taking so many steps to ensure this exact thing would occur. It feels wrong because it IS wrong, it's like that moment when you first hear about a terrorist attack in your home town, you've seen it on the news dozens of times but the fact that it happened to people you might be familiar with makes it cut into all the wrong veins.
It’s because Spartans are the ideal weapon against the Flood in the modern era, I think. Sealed shielded super heavy armor encasing a superhuman warrior of unparalleled skill, with the ones expecting to encounter the horror equipped with gear specifically designed to protect them. The threat is considered so great, that in the event said equipment fails to protect them it is set to kill them -destroy them, even, given that mere death doesn’t spare you from *use*-, but despite all of this, someone was unlucky enough or overwhelmed enough that they were infected all the same. For everything a Spartan is, for how far beyond a human they are in every single way, they still fell prey to it. The Flood, as thoroughly and uncompromisingly *violating* as it is, then managed to corrupt and consume even the functions of the armor. It cannot stop the Gallows function in time, so we can have hope that the infected at least had their consciousness explosively erased, but it prevented total destruction by overriding the countermeasures designed specifically to stop it. Whether the fallen Spartan’s consciousness was consumed or spared, whether they are aware or not, the Flood managed to turn the mightiest warriors humanity can muster into its puppet just the same. It took possession of the armor, the systems intended to make them practically invincible, and repaired the damage it did in its own way. The shields are back online, the armor is intact enough to protect its new owner. If a Spartan couldn’t stand against the Flood’s lesser pawns, what can be done to stop them now? A MAC strike does seem to be the correct response. Me? I’d NOVA the whole fucking planet to be sure.
If it makes you feel any better, theoretically only IVs can be infected as they have significantly less enhancements. Both Chief and Johnson survive getting latched onto by infection forms.
That's simply not true, Johnson survived because he was built different, and chief survived because cortana zapped the infection form. If and infection form got access to their nervous system they would turn into flood same as everyone else.
Johnson survived because he possesses an altered immune system thanks to the biochemical enhancements he received from Project Orion. The same biochemical enhancements that were improved upon for the Spartan 2s and 3s. In the Flood, it is described in detail how the infection form drills(the exact word they used) into the Chief's spinal cord. A basic understanding of human anatomy will tell you that the spinal cord is the nervous systems pathway between the brain and the rest of the body. Sounds like that infection form has access to his nervous system to me. And considering spores alone can infect people, it's safe to assume that having an infection form drill into your nervous system alone is enough to infect you.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The books have made it very clear that nobody is immune to the flood and a cure may well be impossible. Even Johnson's immunity was retconned into him fighting his way out without any infection forms getting him. Clearly when the infection form pierced John Cortana zapped it before it could inject any Flood cells into him. It's as simple as that
Looks like the UNSC needs to redo their gallows idea.
I'm thinking as soon as a suit breach is detected then the armor detonates. Maybe use Forerunner hardlight to completely disintegrate the Spartan.
And we thought the unsc deciding to just immediately nuke the area after spartan is infected was an overreaction. Truth is they weren't overreacting enough.
Seems like that was the idea, it was just prevented from doing so.
It waited longer to confirm FSC infection. It should've just detonated immediately after line 3.
Yeah but the AI waited to confirm the infection and them attempted to detonate. The poster is saying once the breach is detected, just blow it up.
Anyone who’s worked with technology and programming before knows that just blowing up someone every time your software even remotely detects something is a hilariously terrible idea
Normally, yes. With the Flood? I don't think it'd be cautious enough. I think it would work like so: * The suit AI detects FSC in the area * The AI readies countermeasures * As soon as the AI detects shield depletion and an armor breach, the suit detonates.
*Maybe* I mean, it implemented the Gallows Countermeasure *and then* was trying to enact the Reactor Detonation. It made sure the brain (and potentially any AI or communication materials) are destroyed immediately so that if there is anything preventing the Reactor Detonation, intel isn't lost to the Flood. I think. Or maybe the solution to Flood Infection is more explosives.
So I'm apparently behind on some lore. What exactly is the Gallows Countermeasure? EDIT: Nevermind, I found it
Honestly, there's more "filling in the blanks" over anything explicit. Implications, but nothing totally clear. The description for the Gallows VISR in Halo 5 is as follows: >Made for special forward observation teams operating in quarantine zones, failsafe charges in the Gallows VISR will destroy the helmet (and everything in it) in case of compromise. Additionally, in this [Canon Fodder](https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-of-protocols-and-prisons), we get this: >CORRUPTOR protocol is to be declared in the event of a Spartan being infected by the Flood and the failure of subsequent safeguards (the nature of those “safeguards” are something one might infer from the Gallows visor description in Halo 5). This results in the authorization of weapons of mass destruction, such as orbital MAC strikes and deployment of fusion warheads. So it's inferred that Gallows Countermeasure is to render the Spartan being infected a lot less of a threat.
Yeah I finally found an article describing it. I'm assuming that the head is basically paste. So the Flood doesn't gain a bunch of intelligence, but it still gets a supersoldier and maybe some suit specs.
Yeah. Info isn't lost, and then it's just a materials game.
Maybe the GALLOWS visor needs to be directly integrated with the reactor on the armour, bypassing all other parts of the MJOLNIR system and turning the reactor into a fail-deadly device that defaults to detonation, prevented from doing so only by a "dead man's switch" electrical signal that the visor produces. When the visor is destroyed, the reactor is physically locked into the detonation process because the visor's active intervention was the only thing ever stopping it from entering self-destruct mode. Admittedly, this does come with the problem that if the visor ever experiences any form of voltage fluctuation outside of spec, for any reason, for any length of time long enough for the metaphorical "switch" to be released, the user and everyone around them will die needlessly. But given the grave danger to all life the Flood represents, I think that might be a risk the UNSC would be willing to take.
And this is why the Promethean Knights used hardlight shielding.
Also hard to biologically infect a robot
So as of this Intel it's a single Spartan. I'd love to see the battle between this infected Spartan and the rest of their former team.
It’s likely this happens *before* the previous Intel, I think.
As long as I get to see or read about the fight, I'll be happy
oh....oh no.....it used the logic plague on the armor....shit hitted the fan.
Is that the AI saying “become unity. Sweetness”? Implying an infected Spartan comes with a logic plagued AI makes this a whole nother level of terrifying. I hope we get a Flood AI companion for Infinite’s multiplayer.
nah the flood words don't have the / when the AIs speak meaning it's just the infected spartan talking. Edit: holy shit I just realized that the flood seems to used the logic plague to cancel the countermeasures, scary.
> I hope we get a Flood AI companion for Infinite’s multiplayer. It'd be interesting, but the UNSC are not that stupid.
We just had 3 seasons worth of MP storytelling explaining that they *are* that stupid with AI. Also, doesn’t need to be canon, I don’t consider it canon that there’s actual flood infected Spartans running around playing Husky Raid on the same team as regular Spartans.
There's a difference between being stupid with AI, and being stupid with the space zombie parasite that wiped out your ancient ancestors and the closest thing your race has to __gods.__
Well then we can just pin it on non-canon, just like it’s non-canon that there’s Spartans out there with flood growths on their helmets and guns and using Mister Chef as an A.I. There can be a canon logic plagued Dumb AI that whatever Spartan was infected had, and they could just let us use them in MP for fun which wouldn’t be canon. Shoot we already have an example of that with Iratus. We can have dozens of Spartans in a single match using Iratus as their AI when we know in canon there’s only one Iratus and he’s actively sabotaging the training not playing along with it.
Fair enough. Multiplayer Iratus is in-universe a quarantined instance that was replicated and distributed to qualified Spartan-IVs, so it seems they want their AIs to have some kind of lore basis.
What about Mister Chef then
Mister *Chief*, actually. (Sorry). As for his origin, I assume he's some sort of homebrew AI made by the SPARTAN-IVs as a replica of the Master Chief. Or maybe he's a flash clone of the actual Chief, just... Heavily downgraded. Lore doesn't specify.
Isn't the whole sweetness thing a Purcursor ideology to why existence even is? Like to exist is to experience, all existence is sweet regardless if it is happiness or suffering?
The... sweetness...
Sorry if it’s a dumb question but what does FSC stand for? Flood S____ C_____?
Flood Super Cell
Thank you much!
Why must halos story be reduced to this, a Spartan infected by the flood, imagine how cool a cutscene would be seeing the fear in peoples eyes
Is there a cinematic for season 5? Do all the seasons have cinematics?
Cinematic cutscenes were cut due to budget.
It seems the infection form had prior knowledge of the mjolnirs system or near instantly gained it when it infected the consciousness of the spartan. But somehow it also knew the technical specifications to deactivate the reactor, pretty insidious.
Yeah, not buying this. *Made for special forward observation teams operating in quarantine zones, failsafe charges in the Gallows VISR will destroy the helmet (and everything in it) in case of compromise.* The Spartan should have been insta-gibbed no later than the 4th line, or even the 3rd line. There's no cure for the Flood and a breach is a death sentence. ONI would have no problem pre-emptively insta-killing a compromised SIV. I'm also not buying the Flood using logic plague on a suit diagnostics system. This really feels like a forced technology failure for fan service. I'm pretty sure it would be more like... \_\_\_\_ Warning: FSC Detected Shield Breach. Armor Breach Confirmed. Failsafe detonated. ..... .....
The Gallows VISR is specifically for the helmet, not the entire body. Destroy the brain to prevent information being shared to the Hive. Second to that, detonate the reactor to prevent it from being a local problem. Then there's the protocol to just nuke it from orbit. And the Flood has demonstrably been able to interface with technology to utilize it. If this happens a lot, I would be inclined to agree with you on some level. But it's entirely possible this is a 1 in 1000 instance that was recorded. Every other time the reactor does go off or something. This is the time it got through.
So the floods like carnage from venom "hacking" while sticking his tentacles into the computer? Is that what the flood is doing?
Kind of more or less. The Flood Super Cell is what does the work, not strictly the tentacles. It's not exactly the clearing thing in the world on what is happening, but it's nothing new, either. Halo 3 and to some extent Halo 2 have this happening.
So the super cell is communicatung in binary?
Potentially? Like, you and I don't communicate with computers in binary. It may communicate in binary or work out the language to interface. It's not something that is explicitly stated clearly as to what is happening. We just have observed it interface with Human, Covenant, and Forerunner tech.
👍
They've made the flood, the forerunners and all the rest of it one big power shift after another. The logic plague???? So how did it infect the suit's electronics? The cells themselves? They've turned it all into a mess. The flood isn't scary to me at all, and just keeps getting sillier as time goes on. Like how do you get by the shields and armour of a Spartan that can take bullets and fall from space??????? Rubbish that's what it is. I still want to see flood forms holding welding torches fixing the autumn. Load of rubbish.
You do realize all of this has happened in one form or another well since Bungie's time, right? Flood being able to bypass Spartan shields and armor? An Infection Form nearly infected Chief in Halo: The Flood back in 2003. The Flood taking over the systems of digital life? Their conversion of Mendicant Bias was crucial to their effectiveness against the Forerunners, see the Halo 3 terminals.
*You do realize all of this has happened in one form or another well since Bungie's time, right?* As someone who's been with Halo since before Halo 2, no, it really hasn't. 343 is also ignoring their own lore about post-war Flood failsafes in order to make the failures happen. *Flood being able to bypass Spartan shields and armor? An Infection Form nearly infected Chief in Halo: The Flood back in 2003.* I never argued the Flood can't bypass armor and shields through brute force. However, feral or even coordinated flood breaching a suit and instantly hacking a diagnostic system and shutting down a self-destruct? That has never happened outside of Mendicant Bias's imput on Forerunner suits. Also, the Chief nearly got got because he had taken his helmet off and got clocked by a Flood Combat form with a wrench. The artwork in question shows a Spartan IV with full armor on. *The Flood taking over the systems of digital life? Their conversion of Mendicant Bias was crucial to their effectiveness against the Forerunners, see the Halo 3 terminals.* Except that was done by the ***Primordial*** itself and took around 43 years with the full attention of a Precursor, see the Greg Bear novels ***Cryptum, Primordium, and Silentium***. The only known active Gravemind (Delta-05) and proto-graveminds (Ark Installation, 04A, I***nfinite Succor***, ***Mona Lisa*** and Shield World 0459) were destroyed. 343 pulling yet another one out of a hat on short notice is ridiculous. This isn't the first time 343 has done questionable writing, though, as Dr. Halsey's infamous ista-hacking of a Contender-class AI shows. She apparently ended up being "4,520,000 times faster" than the Primordial's corruption of Mendicant Bias. Additionally, we know that simpler AI systems, such as the Promethean Knights, are effectively immune to Logic Plague. I refuse to believe a diagnostic system lesser than a Promethean Knight would instantly fall to logic plague.
You’re just straight up wrong about the Chief having his helmet off as the reason the Infection Form almost got him. This was during his assault on the Pillar of Autumn and he was still fully helmeted. As far as what’s happening with the Spartan-IV, we also don’t know the size and scale of the outbreak. One detail that interests me is the /CODE INJECTION DETECTED part that was then followed by the statement that countermeasures were cancelled. Could be that the Flood gained access to some sort of back door to stop whatever countermeasures are in the armor. Even in a very early stage like we saw on the Infinite Succor they can organize and adapt fast, long before they begin making a proto-Gravemind. Again, we’d need to know the full outbreak context and we just don’t have that yet.
*You’re just straight up wrong about the Chief having his helmet off as the reason the Infection Form almost got him. This was during his assault on the Pillar of Autumn and he was still fully helmeted* I don't have my copy while I'm living abroad, so it looks like I got the order wrong. Shields down, infector cut his skin, and the I think he took his helmet off to check the seal and slap on some aid. Though that also brings up the question of how he wasn't infected by a physical cut, since 343's "Mona Lisa" has canonized infections from broken skin. *As far as what’s happening with the Spartan-IV, we also don’t know the size and scale of the outbreak. One detail that interests me is the /CODE INJECTION DETECTED part that was then followed by the statement that countermeasures were cancelled. Could be that the Flood gained access to some sort of back door to stop whatever countermeasures are in the armor. Even in a very early stage like we saw on the Infinite Succor they can organize and adapt fast, long before they begin making a proto-Gravemind.* And while that's possible, I think that's kind of odd. I would think ONI would be intelligent enough to compartmentalize technical knowledge on a "need to know" basis in a Flood containment zone. They're well aware of what the Flood can do and they know about Logic Plague. *Again, we’d need to know the full outbreak context and we just don’t have that yet.* It's a fair point, though I really feel like narratively 343 has too many irons in the fire at this point.
How does a flesh and blood meat ball bypass a Spartans shields?
Dude, a solid smack from a Combat Form is enough to make the shields flare up and go out. Which is precisely what happened to Chief in The Flood. Soon after an Infection Form took advantage and nearly reached his spinal cord. It's not that complex lol.
Right on👍
Ahhh no explanation. Magical powers, when the shields can survive the chief holding on to a banshee crashing into a seraph, or the chief surviving a fall from orbit because of his undersuit???? Yet a flood infection form can penetrate an air tight tank like armour with its tendrils ???? Or a hit from a flood form? And the flood can instantly turn the operating system (not a smart AI) of mjolnir?? Yuhhh halo is.....halo hammer 40k. Notice how they copied Issacs infection form suit for dlc???
Pretty sure your 50% trolling at this point, but I’ll play along. For one, I did give you an explanation. A Combat Form with a large industrial wrench struck against Chief’s helmet with a blow powerful enough to knock out his shields whereupon an Infection Form used its penetrator to pierce his neck seal and jab said penetrator into his neck towards his spine. Because, as I’m sure you can make out, not every part of MJOLNIR is armored in titanium. Now, assuming you’ve actually played the games, you’ll no doubt have noticed that when enough bullets or plasma rounds hit you or you get smacked enough times by enemies your shield goes away. And given Combat Forms have displayed super-human levels of strength and agility, why you find simple physics as the reason Chief’s shields could go down as akin to magic escapes me. As for the unfortunate Spartan here, we’re lacking some context. We do not know the size and scope of the Flood outbreak. Enough overwhelming odds is going to bring down most folks, even Spartans. At that point they’d be easy pickings for infection. As for the suits AI systems being overrun so quickly, again, we probably need to know the scope of the outbreak. So hopeful anyone else who has legit questions sees this and understands how all this can go down. Like I said, I’m about 50% your trolling, but I’ll let some good come from this.
Not trolling at all. As for the flood in game. It's in game. I wouldn't expect any infection form to do anything to his shields or armour. So how does the infection form get by the titanium undersuit? Surely the lock for the helmet is metal as well. Do the flood forms has some super dooper ultra thin tentacle it can just squeeze through an air tight seal? Or is it strong enough to force the helmet off? And as for the flood form with the wrench? Sheeett that did more damage than atriox with his hammer. Anyway I've said my piece. This is all...... silly
343 Guilty Spark outright tells the Chief his armor is really ill-suited for combat against the Flood during The Library. Given the Flood fought Forerunners with armor, just by the context clue given here, six times more powerful than Chief’s (Spark calls his armor Class 2 and that he needs at least a Class 12), I think it’s clear the penetrator of an Infection Form isn’t going to be hindered by Chief undersuit. Again, this is all information and the status quo that’s been in place for nearly 20 years. Why your disbelief breaks down now of all times eludes me.