Just my 2 cents from a lifelong Hamiltonian and someone who’s only mildly educated
The big issue is where the guns are coming from. A lot I would imagine are coming over from the USA/overseas illegally and then being sold on the street.
And it’s easy and inexpensive to find one.
IMO you’re found with an illegal or unregistered firearm. It’s an automatic jail term.
Because let’s be honest, you aren’t purchasing illegal weapons to go shooting at the range. You’re involved with something nefarious.
I don’t know maybe it’ll work maybe it won’t but we can’t keep going like this.
And thank god for that - mandatory sentences are always a shit idea. Lots of precedent throughout history that it punishes the innocent, doesn’t deter, etc
They do, actually, all the time. Not in Canada as much because we have fewer guns, but America is so awash in firearms and they’re so easy to get that legal firearms or those stolen from people who purchased them legally are used in the commission of crimes all the time. Mass shooters [especially use legal guns](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/28/mass-shooting-nashville-guns-legally)
Yeah, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Canada. As the other comment said, in Canada it is by FAR illegal guns being used in crimes. Yet, there has been absolutely nothing done to target illegal guns....
From the article: “Among the weapons listed as financial losses last year are one rifle, one handgun, 29 bayonets and one missile launcher — which DND was able to confirm was destroyed when a military aircraft crashed.
But the reasons other weapons were recorded as losses are not known at the national level, something Drapeau says needs to change.”
Hardly “significant”. Over 90% of seized weapons on the street are traced to the states.
Does protesting really do anything?
I always look at protesting like a child throwing a temper tantrum
Vote the bad guys out? But who’s better
Red?
Blue?
Orange?
Green?
🤷🏼
At this point anything is better than nothing. I’m not a protest guy either, but they need to feel some pressure, especially from their own voters, I see a lot of liberals unsatisfied but they won’t do anything, and wouldn’t vote conservative either, so how will anything change?
Did you read this article? They were talking specifically about shootings that don’t result in a homicide which they’ve started investigating because the numbers have increased greatly
Where do you think stollen guns come from?
Not all are coming over the border.
People who had them legally is a source.
I’m not anti gun either i routinely partook in Tuesday new shooter night precovid at a local range and even have the paperwork for my pal.
There are some weapons that are too risky to get into the wrong hands.
So they have lots of legal guns, and also a ridiculous amount of stolen ones.
We have less legal guns and still way to many stolen guns but exponentially less thanks to our restrictions.
No way you thought this supports your point 😂
It’s a drop in the bucket compared to American guns.
Leave it to libs to turn a blind eye to 99% of the problem, to focus on fucking over law abiding citizens due to 1% of the problem.
Seeing America-brained Canadians is really sad. There, they only have two parties so you can call anyone who disagrees with you a “lib” and people get it because of their polarized society. Here, you just look like a fucking loser who spends too much time mainlining right-wing American sources.
Then again, the broader point is that a guy who gets his info from partisan American sources and believes all politics is petty tribalism is very much the stereotype of someone who would be pro-gun. Yeah, you don’t know anything about the world and are invested in the culture wars in a different country instead of thinking about how to better your own. We get it
You wrote a lot of words to say you were triggered by being referred to as a “lib”, and no words supporting your original comment about stolen guns!
Kinda proves my point in all honesty 😂
Edit: Replied to me again and then blocked me so I can’t see it! Lil bro cannot stop taking these L’s 😂
probably the only thing worse than being a Ben Shapiro watcher is not being smart enough to follow it. my guy you aren’t even using the insults correctly
Its proof gun restrictions limit the number of stolen guns
It’s actually an interesting statistic they have 10 times the population so if our gun control didn’t impact stollen gun availability our rate should be 25,000 vs their 250,000.
Our restrictions keep 23,500 gun out of the stolen gun market. That’s a lot of crime. Still to steal a gun it’s intent to commit some sore of offence 2500 folks with sneaky weapons is to many.
Ps I love shooting I’m just being truthful about the issue.
It’s actually an interesting statistic they have 10 times the population so if our gun control didn’t impact stollen gun availability our rate should be 25,000 vs their 250,000.
Our restrictions keep 23,500 gun out of the stolen gun market. That’s a lot of crime. Still to steal a gun it’s intent to commit some sore of offence 2500 folks with sneaky weapons is to many.
Ps I love shooting I’m just being truthful about the issue.
As a licensed gun owner in Hamilton. The problem is not coming from those who respect the weight and care of being a licensed gun owner.
The issue is the thugs who come to our city that obtain their guns illegally and for nefarious reasons.
Start cracking down on that crime and enforcing punishment on these thugs.
Serious enforcement if you have a license and abuse it like a criminal and tons of rules the thugs don’t face the same legal ramifications I see that time and time again anyone who uses a gun without license is committing further crimes I’m all for locking them up Hamilton is becoming the shooting capital lately
Exactly! Like maybe a group that gets large increases year over year, has a mandate to help keep the city safe, and even has a task force on it!
But it's the public who has to do the legwork here
It isn't just the police - it is also the justice system. It doesn't matter who the police arrest if the justice system just lets them back out. The problem also compounds on itself, the police stop arresting people (or enforcing certain laws) because they stop seeing a point when the justice system let's them out right after.
The police should not “stop enforcing certain laws” or make any judgements about legality because that’s not their job and not what they’re trained for.
I don't fully agree with you. Look at weed before it got decriminalized/legalized or people driving over the speed limit but less than 10 over. The police generally just ignore(d) people breaking those laws because it wastes everyone's time if they enforce(d) it.
I mean yeah but the person I was responding to said the cops won’t arrest people because of a value judgement about their potential treatment by the legal system and that’s the road to disaster.
So you believe cops should have been arresting people with weed possession before it was decriminalized and they should be ticketing people going 1km/h over the speed limit? At some point the police need to be making a value judgment of what is worthwhile for them to pursue.
Yeah that’s the discretion that comes with any law enforcement job, not “oh, this guy will just be out in three weeks anyway, let’s let this assault slide”
This article has nothing to do with the justice system though, the cops are saying there's too much gun crime and they want people to help them with it
It's not that cops have given up, they aren't looking to start. Even with their bloated bugets, toys and everything else. The only thing they don't expand is their headcount
They are paid to arrest people. If they stop doing their jobs, they should be fired. Nobody else gets to stop doing their job because they “don’t see the point” and keep getting paid.
Imagine if doctors just stopped saving people’s lives because they’re just going to die later anyways. Same bullshit logic.
> Imagine if doctors just stopped saving people’s lives because they’re just going to die later anyways.
That is a false equivalency. The situation with the police is "if they take action, things revert their decision and go back to the status quo'. That is, if they take action, their action becomes meaningless. The equivalency would be doctor's not doing surgery because the patient is going to be fine anyways or a doctor choosing to not taken action because the patient is going to die anyways. Both of those do happen.
Actually, I think the better example would be if family doctors stopped referring people to surgeons because the surgeon sometimes decides not to operate.
Doctors have medical boards and health Canada guidelines to provide accountability to those kinds of decisions. They don’t get to just decide not to do their jobs.
Try again.
> Doctors have medical boards and health Canada guidelines to provide accountability to those kinds of decisions. They don’t get to just decide not to do their jobs.
They still have to make judgment calls on if things are medical necessary or redundant. They are given guidelines, but they still have to make judgment calls.
Any judgment call a doctor makes in the interest of best practice of medicine is not at all equivalent to cops deciding not to do their jobs because they don't feel like it.
I used the doctor example to show how absurd it is to refuse to do your job, not to infer that cops are at all worthy of being compared to doctors.
So even the HPS, with their enormous budget, is saying they’re ineffective at tackling the issues at hand.
I think it starts with social programs and support for individuals and communities at risk to pull them up from the gutter so that they do not feel the need to resort to crime and violence.
The brats in these gangs aren't from "the gutter" and they have no "need" to resort to crime and violence. They're just punks with attitude, and they think it's cool to perpetrate crime and violence.
More police horses would surely solve the problem.
Or maybe police helicopters?
Perhaps some shiny military equipment for our peace officers?
I have every confidence that police chief Frank Berger will come up with a financial solution that benefits the police service and its members and doesn't begin to tackle the problem.
The Hamilton police board will help make sure of that.
Did you all see the part prior to the shooting with a five year old child walking by themself? I can’t understand why a little was alone walking (looked like a backpack) in an alley
Wanna do something about it? Cut the police budget.
Shootings driven by drug dealing and abuse? Let's do something about that. House people, treat people. Less people on the streets and less people using drugs means drug dealing is less profitable, the market is smaller and there is less reward for the risk of carrying and using a gun.
We know that police don't make cities safer, we know that mandatory minimums don't mitigate crime, let's actually address the root issue that even police are willing to acknowledge.
But if the likelihood of consequences for carrying a weapon is very low, then reward vs risk is already too great. Fewer people using drugs would be great but we won't crack that without a massive increase of treatment spaces and the legal right to force people into rehab. Once there and dried out they might come around but many will not go there willingly. And a strong step down system that controls how well they do after they leave rehab or a psychiatric facility since just releasing them with no check ups results in far too high a relapse rate. And very big penalties for dealing or possession of larger amounts.
The likelihood and consequences of carrying a loaded restricted firearm is not low at all. it's a penitentiary sentence.
Treatment and housing, even without the ability to force people into treatment against their will would substantially impact drug use in the city. There are many many people who simply don't have access to the treatment they need.
Many may not go there willingly but if even 30% do that would be a huge impact in the city. Based on my experience with users in Hamilton it would be much higher than 30% but lets use that as a low baseline. it would be massive.
Sentences on dealing fentanyl start at 5 years. Fentanyl is still a huge problem. Sentences don't stop dealing, the war on drugs is a failed policy.
Schools didn’t use to have traffic jams at the tail ends of the day, because parents felt comfortable letting their children walk home.
Now every child that walks to school is in danger of being run over by a distracted, underslept parent dropping their own kid off.
Largely because of attitudes like yours that letting a child walk 100 meters on their own deserves a call to CPS.
Wow, really normal comment. So you would let your 5 year old child walk alone in the alleyways of barton, where people senselessly shoot with guns in broad daylight? Also it’s cas not cps, we don’t live in the us.
The statistical probability that a child will be shot by a stray bullet is near zero. Someone with a gun intentionally shooting a five year old child is even less likely than that.
A child is far more likely to be run over by a car than shot by a gun, so yes, they are safer in the alley.
Also, your characterization of Barton street is hysterical.
I thought the same thing to be honest. 5 years old. Alone. Walking in an alley. That's a no for my kids but that's just me and some parents don't have any other choice. But still no.
As someone who grew up in Hamilton and is planning on moving back in a few months with my gf (who admittedly is nervous about moving from Toronto) ... I think I'll keep this article away from her
Edit: I'm not saying I'm afraid of Hamilton. My gf is from Ireland and only hears about Hamilton through social media. Judging from the replies, I should be more worried about people hating on us for being in Toronto than shooters
Hamilton didn’t even make the list of top murder rates per 100k people in Canada. Toronto and many other places are more dangerous.
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/s/hz2lUkhvoA
I’ve been telling my friends that make comments about Hamilton, it’s not very dangerous. People high on opiates are not very dangerous. Neither are hookers (assuming you’re not getting involved with them)
> I’ve been telling my friends that make comments about Hamilton, it’s not very dangerous.
The mom of the child who walked through the alley just before the shooting would think otherwise.
It’s not a whataboutism if the person I replied to was literally mentioning Toronto in relativity to Hamilton in terms of violence. I brought up relevant statistics showing the city is in fact safer than many would like to think.
I’m not trying to downplay gun violence, that’s a ridiculous accusation.
Also the gun violence in Hamilton is sporadic at best. Look at previous years, we have highs and lows in back to back years. It’s not like there is an overwhelming amount of data saying that Hamilton is becoming one big shootout. Recency bias aside, it is quite a safe city.
I never said Hamilton was more dangerous than Toronto btw, nor compare it to Toronto. I was trying to say that there is a perception from people who never lived in Hamilton that it's a rougher city, and that i wanted to keep this article away from my partner who I've been trying to convince that it isn't. Stats are good and all, but when this shooting occurred a few blocks from where we're moving to...it doesn't calm her nerves.
I never said you said those things. You merely brought up the two cities in context of violence and I provided statistics to counter said worries.
The proximity is certainly worrisome but as long as you’re not dealing or buying drugs on the streets you’re more than likely to be fine.
Look into these shootings and you’ll see that it’s either organized crime or street crimes gone awry.
Just like any city you need to have your wits about you.
This - what Armalyte is saying is absolutely true. 2022 was a historically low rate for murders in Hamilton - https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6724633
Now right as budget time comes up, the cops are out crying about how dangerous the city is.
Yeah and as someone who’s lived in both cities for a long time, Hamilton is way, way, WAY more violent, dirty and difficult to live in. Sorry not sorry, it’s true. I’ll always have a spot in my heart for the Hammer, but after visiting briefly last week, I can say for sure that I’d never move back.
My car was broken into 3 times in 2 years before I moved to Toronto at 25 and haven't had a single break-in in over 15 years, and I don't live in a "good" area of Toronto. The area in Hamilton I'm moving to has improved the past 10-15 years, so fingers crossed I don't curse the area with crime when Im back.
Born and raised in Hamilton but have been living in Toronto for 10+ years. When I lived in Hamilton (I left when I was 24), esp near the downtown area, I experienced break-ins, robberies, multiple assaults and street harassment. In the entire decade of living in Toronto (College/Ossington), I haven’t once experienced anything like that. I have a toddler daughter now and I feel incredibly safe in our city, much MUCH safer than I ever felt living in Hamilton.
Sure, statistically! Of course larger population density would equal more crime. But nevertheless, my neighbourhood isn’t far at all from the rougher parts of the city - I’ve also lived in these neighborhoods - and I’ve still never experienced the level of bullshit that I dealt with CONSTANTLY in Hamilton.
I mean, your anecdotes don’t really mean much.
Do you know how many people live in west Hamilton and don’t experience any of the bullshit people living downtown do?
It’s almost like statistics are statistics for a reason and anecdotal evidence is just that.
Yeah, and it's almost like you're in the subreddit for the city you moved away from 10+ years ago and are telling people who live there how it is. We know how it is. We also have statistics that can tell us how it is. I'm sorry your experience was so negative.
Relatively speaking, we aren't Detroit. Our Police are well compensated. But one could go for months at a stretch without ever seeing a squad car. The only time I've ever seen one in an alley is if someone overdosed.
Police presence won't stop crime. But it's a known deterrent. Back on patrol, peeps.
Just my 2 cents from a lifelong Hamiltonian and someone who’s only mildly educated The big issue is where the guns are coming from. A lot I would imagine are coming over from the USA/overseas illegally and then being sold on the street. And it’s easy and inexpensive to find one. IMO you’re found with an illegal or unregistered firearm. It’s an automatic jail term. Because let’s be honest, you aren’t purchasing illegal weapons to go shooting at the range. You’re involved with something nefarious. I don’t know maybe it’ll work maybe it won’t but we can’t keep going like this.
automatic long jail term. 10 years possession, 15 if fired, 20 if used in crime, 25 life for violent use
Honestly, I don't think criminals in gang wars and shooting illegal guns are thinking long term enough to be dissuaded by those repercussions.
maybe not, but if you catch them once they are gone for a long time
That’s the answer we are looking for!
Americans have the death penalty. Has it stopped these types of crime?
We had mandatory minimums under Harper. They were ruled unconstitutional and revoked. Now we're here.
And thank god for that - mandatory sentences are always a shit idea. Lots of precedent throughout history that it punishes the innocent, doesn’t deter, etc
“But it makes me feel like a big man!”
That pesky constitution, huh?
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Do you have something against people who suck penises?
Best we can do is confiscate long rifles from legel and responsible gun owners 🤷♂️
But advocates don’t like that it’s certain groups found with these weapons and apparently it’s biased to deal with them.
Tell me more about the certain groups, clearly you come at this from a position of deep knowledge about criminology and recidivism
Thanks for proving my point
Your point was what, exactly? Are you not brave enough to share it
Almost exclusively coming from the US. Responsible firearm owners firearms just don’t end up on the streets.
They do, actually, all the time. Not in Canada as much because we have fewer guns, but America is so awash in firearms and they’re so easy to get that legal firearms or those stolen from people who purchased them legally are used in the commission of crimes all the time. Mass shooters [especially use legal guns](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/28/mass-shooting-nashville-guns-legally)
Yeah, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Canada. As the other comment said, in Canada it is by FAR illegal guns being used in crimes. Yet, there has been absolutely nothing done to target illegal guns....
Also 3d printed now. Not anything to do with legal responsible gun owners.
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From the article: “Among the weapons listed as financial losses last year are one rifle, one handgun, 29 bayonets and one missile launcher — which DND was able to confirm was destroyed when a military aircraft crashed. But the reasons other weapons were recorded as losses are not known at the national level, something Drapeau says needs to change.” Hardly “significant”. Over 90% of seized weapons on the street are traced to the states.
So when do we start protesting for that to happen?
Does protesting really do anything? I always look at protesting like a child throwing a temper tantrum Vote the bad guys out? But who’s better Red? Blue? Orange? Green? 🤷🏼
At this point anything is better than nothing. I’m not a protest guy either, but they need to feel some pressure, especially from their own voters, I see a lot of liberals unsatisfied but they won’t do anything, and wouldn’t vote conservative either, so how will anything change?
There’s nothing cool, attractive, or intelligent about apathy.
It literally does everything. How do you think anyone ever got rights
The problem is - the police are lying. Hamilton has one of the lowest murder rates we’ve ever had. They’re just out begging for funds.
Did you read this article? They were talking specifically about shootings that don’t result in a homicide which they’ve started investigating because the numbers have increased greatly
Nah Trudeau says it’s the legal long gun owners that are the problem.
Where do you think stollen guns come from? Not all are coming over the border. People who had them legally is a source. I’m not anti gun either i routinely partook in Tuesday new shooter night precovid at a local range and even have the paperwork for my pal. There are some weapons that are too risky to get into the wrong hands.
According to ammo.com Almost a quarter of million guns are stolen each year in the USA In Canada 2500 guns are stolen in a year. 🤷🏼
So they have lots of legal guns, and also a ridiculous amount of stolen ones. We have less legal guns and still way to many stolen guns but exponentially less thanks to our restrictions.
Are you saying this like it supports your point because yeah, legal gun ownership still increases the supply of guns available illegally. I agree
No way you thought this supports your point 😂 It’s a drop in the bucket compared to American guns. Leave it to libs to turn a blind eye to 99% of the problem, to focus on fucking over law abiding citizens due to 1% of the problem.
Seeing America-brained Canadians is really sad. There, they only have two parties so you can call anyone who disagrees with you a “lib” and people get it because of their polarized society. Here, you just look like a fucking loser who spends too much time mainlining right-wing American sources. Then again, the broader point is that a guy who gets his info from partisan American sources and believes all politics is petty tribalism is very much the stereotype of someone who would be pro-gun. Yeah, you don’t know anything about the world and are invested in the culture wars in a different country instead of thinking about how to better your own. We get it
You wrote a lot of words to say you were triggered by being referred to as a “lib”, and no words supporting your original comment about stolen guns! Kinda proves my point in all honesty 😂 Edit: Replied to me again and then blocked me so I can’t see it! Lil bro cannot stop taking these L’s 😂
probably the only thing worse than being a Ben Shapiro watcher is not being smart enough to follow it. my guy you aren’t even using the insults correctly
Its proof gun restrictions limit the number of stolen guns It’s actually an interesting statistic they have 10 times the population so if our gun control didn’t impact stollen gun availability our rate should be 25,000 vs their 250,000. Our restrictions keep 23,500 gun out of the stolen gun market. That’s a lot of crime. Still to steal a gun it’s intent to commit some sore of offence 2500 folks with sneaky weapons is to many. Ps I love shooting I’m just being truthful about the issue.
It’s actually an interesting statistic they have 10 times the population so if our gun control didn’t impact stollen gun availability our rate should be 25,000 vs their 250,000. Our restrictions keep 23,500 gun out of the stolen gun market. That’s a lot of crime. Still to steal a gun it’s intent to commit some sore of offence 2500 folks with sneaky weapons is to many. Ps I love shooting I’m just being truthful about the issue.
Fuck that guy haha So under that logic my dad and uncle are the problem. Hard working blue collar guys.
Nothing about being hard working or blue collar has anything to do with long gun ownership
Equating gun ownership to blue collar workers is literally identity politics.
As a licensed gun owner in Hamilton. The problem is not coming from those who respect the weight and care of being a licensed gun owner. The issue is the thugs who come to our city that obtain their guns illegally and for nefarious reasons. Start cracking down on that crime and enforcing punishment on these thugs.
Serious enforcement if you have a license and abuse it like a criminal and tons of rules the thugs don’t face the same legal ramifications I see that time and time again anyone who uses a gun without license is committing further crimes I’m all for locking them up Hamilton is becoming the shooting capital lately
Cops be like: Guys! Someone needs do something about this!
The cops are just straight up lying to mooch more tax dollars.
If only there was someone who could do something about it
Exactly! Like maybe a group that gets large increases year over year, has a mandate to help keep the city safe, and even has a task force on it! But it's the public who has to do the legwork here
It isn't just the police - it is also the justice system. It doesn't matter who the police arrest if the justice system just lets them back out. The problem also compounds on itself, the police stop arresting people (or enforcing certain laws) because they stop seeing a point when the justice system let's them out right after.
The police should not “stop enforcing certain laws” or make any judgements about legality because that’s not their job and not what they’re trained for.
I don't fully agree with you. Look at weed before it got decriminalized/legalized or people driving over the speed limit but less than 10 over. The police generally just ignore(d) people breaking those laws because it wastes everyone's time if they enforce(d) it.
I mean yeah but the person I was responding to said the cops won’t arrest people because of a value judgement about their potential treatment by the legal system and that’s the road to disaster.
So you believe cops should have been arresting people with weed possession before it was decriminalized and they should be ticketing people going 1km/h over the speed limit? At some point the police need to be making a value judgment of what is worthwhile for them to pursue.
Yeah that’s the discretion that comes with any law enforcement job, not “oh, this guy will just be out in three weeks anyway, let’s let this assault slide”
This article has nothing to do with the justice system though, the cops are saying there's too much gun crime and they want people to help them with it It's not that cops have given up, they aren't looking to start. Even with their bloated bugets, toys and everything else. The only thing they don't expand is their headcount
They are paid to arrest people. If they stop doing their jobs, they should be fired. Nobody else gets to stop doing their job because they “don’t see the point” and keep getting paid. Imagine if doctors just stopped saving people’s lives because they’re just going to die later anyways. Same bullshit logic.
> Imagine if doctors just stopped saving people’s lives because they’re just going to die later anyways. That is a false equivalency. The situation with the police is "if they take action, things revert their decision and go back to the status quo'. That is, if they take action, their action becomes meaningless. The equivalency would be doctor's not doing surgery because the patient is going to be fine anyways or a doctor choosing to not taken action because the patient is going to die anyways. Both of those do happen.
Actually, I think the better example would be if family doctors stopped referring people to surgeons because the surgeon sometimes decides not to operate.
Doctors have medical boards and health Canada guidelines to provide accountability to those kinds of decisions. They don’t get to just decide not to do their jobs. Try again.
> Doctors have medical boards and health Canada guidelines to provide accountability to those kinds of decisions. They don’t get to just decide not to do their jobs. They still have to make judgment calls on if things are medical necessary or redundant. They are given guidelines, but they still have to make judgment calls.
Any judgment call a doctor makes in the interest of best practice of medicine is not at all equivalent to cops deciding not to do their jobs because they don't feel like it. I used the doctor example to show how absurd it is to refuse to do your job, not to infer that cops are at all worthy of being compared to doctors.
Liquor in convenience stores will fix this! - Doug Ford
So will that dumb spa. It's all being fixed.
And we should definitely pay $225M to make it happened asap!
Hello from Italy 🤝
I thought it's only going to be beer, wine and coolers?
Hamilton needs a Batman. Sam Merulla fits the bill.
So even the HPS, with their enormous budget, is saying they’re ineffective at tackling the issues at hand. I think it starts with social programs and support for individuals and communities at risk to pull them up from the gutter so that they do not feel the need to resort to crime and violence.
The brats in these gangs aren't from "the gutter" and they have no "need" to resort to crime and violence. They're just punks with attitude, and they think it's cool to perpetrate crime and violence.
I grappled with including the reference to them being from “the gutter”. I still stand by the rest of my statement
Citation needed
Many of them don't need to, they just see this lifestyle as a quicker, easier road to money than slogging away at a job.
Could have a lot to do with toxic masculinity and nothing else.
"We cannot accept or tolerate this." So, stop accepting and tolerating it.
I know, like, wtf. What does the article say?
More police horses would surely solve the problem. Or maybe police helicopters? Perhaps some shiny military equipment for our peace officers? I have every confidence that police chief Frank Berger will come up with a financial solution that benefits the police service and its members and doesn't begin to tackle the problem. The Hamilton police board will help make sure of that.
Don't forget Coffee with a cop
How bout a police tesla cyber truck?
I know maybe the cable television they refused to give up to help deflate their ridiculous budget... that will surely help
Maybe they should do something about
Tolerate? Whose tolerating this? My buddy whips out his massive glock, I tell him dude what the fuck put that away. I don't tolerate that shit.
It's just like at my job. I don't do it, and then when things start to fall apart, I yell "Guys, we cannot accept or tolerate this!"
Did you all see the part prior to the shooting with a five year old child walking by themself? I can’t understand why a little was alone walking (looked like a backpack) in an alley
Well shit, I didn't know all we had to say was "stop" Where do the cops fit into all this? Or do they? What do they get paid for again?
WAIT.....this can't be correct. The federal government made guns illegal!
Wanna do something about it? Cut the police budget. Shootings driven by drug dealing and abuse? Let's do something about that. House people, treat people. Less people on the streets and less people using drugs means drug dealing is less profitable, the market is smaller and there is less reward for the risk of carrying and using a gun. We know that police don't make cities safer, we know that mandatory minimums don't mitigate crime, let's actually address the root issue that even police are willing to acknowledge.
But if the likelihood of consequences for carrying a weapon is very low, then reward vs risk is already too great. Fewer people using drugs would be great but we won't crack that without a massive increase of treatment spaces and the legal right to force people into rehab. Once there and dried out they might come around but many will not go there willingly. And a strong step down system that controls how well they do after they leave rehab or a psychiatric facility since just releasing them with no check ups results in far too high a relapse rate. And very big penalties for dealing or possession of larger amounts.
The likelihood and consequences of carrying a loaded restricted firearm is not low at all. it's a penitentiary sentence. Treatment and housing, even without the ability to force people into treatment against their will would substantially impact drug use in the city. There are many many people who simply don't have access to the treatment they need. Many may not go there willingly but if even 30% do that would be a huge impact in the city. Based on my experience with users in Hamilton it would be much higher than 30% but lets use that as a low baseline. it would be massive. Sentences on dealing fentanyl start at 5 years. Fentanyl is still a huge problem. Sentences don't stop dealing, the war on drugs is a failed policy.
Sorry, is that guy wearing a f*cking murse?
Why was a 5 year old walking home by herself?
- the necessity for all parents to be working full time - lack of available child care - unaffordable child care
Schools didn’t use to have traffic jams at the tail ends of the day, because parents felt comfortable letting their children walk home. Now every child that walks to school is in danger of being run over by a distracted, underslept parent dropping their own kid off. Largely because of attitudes like yours that letting a child walk 100 meters on their own deserves a call to CPS.
Wow, really normal comment. So you would let your 5 year old child walk alone in the alleyways of barton, where people senselessly shoot with guns in broad daylight? Also it’s cas not cps, we don’t live in the us.
The statistical probability that a child will be shot by a stray bullet is near zero. Someone with a gun intentionally shooting a five year old child is even less likely than that. A child is far more likely to be run over by a car than shot by a gun, so yes, they are safer in the alley. Also, your characterization of Barton street is hysterical.
Why *shouldn't* a 5 year old be able to walk home by herself?
I thought the same thing to be honest. 5 years old. Alone. Walking in an alley. That's a no for my kids but that's just me and some parents don't have any other choice. But still no.
Starts with loitering
I keep seeing bsk tags all downtown maybe check on em
“please ignore that one of our officers was arrested for domestic violence” -HPS
Police presence has always been a deterrent against violent crime. More tours of the streets and alleys in squad cars please.
As someone who grew up in Hamilton and is planning on moving back in a few months with my gf (who admittedly is nervous about moving from Toronto) ... I think I'll keep this article away from her Edit: I'm not saying I'm afraid of Hamilton. My gf is from Ireland and only hears about Hamilton through social media. Judging from the replies, I should be more worried about people hating on us for being in Toronto than shooters
Hamilton didn’t even make the list of top murder rates per 100k people in Canada. Toronto and many other places are more dangerous. https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/s/hz2lUkhvoA
Pearl clutching Torontonians should maybe stay in Toronto.
I’ve been telling my friends that make comments about Hamilton, it’s not very dangerous. People high on opiates are not very dangerous. Neither are hookers (assuming you’re not getting involved with them)
Exactly. Mind your business, watch your surroundings and other basic shit you should have learned in life and you're fine.
> I’ve been telling my friends that make comments about Hamilton, it’s not very dangerous. The mom of the child who walked through the alley just before the shooting would think otherwise.
And if the stats were even more unlikely she would still be traumatized. What was the point of your comment?
A counter example to your statement.
It's not a counter at all... more like just a single anecdote of violence in a city of nearly a million people.
No no Hamilton Ontario. Population maybe 3/4 million. Or are you counting Lynden and Carlisle to inflate your numbers? Lol
If you look up the population of Hamilton it says 781,000 for 2023.
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It’s not a whataboutism if the person I replied to was literally mentioning Toronto in relativity to Hamilton in terms of violence. I brought up relevant statistics showing the city is in fact safer than many would like to think. I’m not trying to downplay gun violence, that’s a ridiculous accusation. Also the gun violence in Hamilton is sporadic at best. Look at previous years, we have highs and lows in back to back years. It’s not like there is an overwhelming amount of data saying that Hamilton is becoming one big shootout. Recency bias aside, it is quite a safe city.
I never said Hamilton was more dangerous than Toronto btw, nor compare it to Toronto. I was trying to say that there is a perception from people who never lived in Hamilton that it's a rougher city, and that i wanted to keep this article away from my partner who I've been trying to convince that it isn't. Stats are good and all, but when this shooting occurred a few blocks from where we're moving to...it doesn't calm her nerves.
I never said you said those things. You merely brought up the two cities in context of violence and I provided statistics to counter said worries. The proximity is certainly worrisome but as long as you’re not dealing or buying drugs on the streets you’re more than likely to be fine. Look into these shootings and you’ll see that it’s either organized crime or street crimes gone awry. Just like any city you need to have your wits about you.
This - what Armalyte is saying is absolutely true. 2022 was a historically low rate for murders in Hamilton - https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6724633 Now right as budget time comes up, the cops are out crying about how dangerous the city is.
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Toronto is a statically more unsafe city than Hamilton
Yeah and as someone who’s lived in both cities for a long time, Hamilton is way, way, WAY more violent, dirty and difficult to live in. Sorry not sorry, it’s true. I’ll always have a spot in my heart for the Hammer, but after visiting briefly last week, I can say for sure that I’d never move back.
I would be more nervous living in Toronto.
My car was broken into 3 times in 2 years before I moved to Toronto at 25 and haven't had a single break-in in over 15 years, and I don't live in a "good" area of Toronto. The area in Hamilton I'm moving to has improved the past 10-15 years, so fingers crossed I don't curse the area with crime when Im back.
Born and raised in Hamilton but have been living in Toronto for 10+ years. When I lived in Hamilton (I left when I was 24), esp near the downtown area, I experienced break-ins, robberies, multiple assaults and street harassment. In the entire decade of living in Toronto (College/Ossington), I haven’t once experienced anything like that. I have a toddler daughter now and I feel incredibly safe in our city, much MUCH safer than I ever felt living in Hamilton.
Yeah so obviously if you move to a nice part of a bigger city you are going to feel safer. But statistically it's still more dangerous in Toronto.
Sure, statistically! Of course larger population density would equal more crime. But nevertheless, my neighbourhood isn’t far at all from the rougher parts of the city - I’ve also lived in these neighborhoods - and I’ve still never experienced the level of bullshit that I dealt with CONSTANTLY in Hamilton.
I mean, your anecdotes don’t really mean much. Do you know how many people live in west Hamilton and don’t experience any of the bullshit people living downtown do? It’s almost like statistics are statistics for a reason and anecdotal evidence is just that.
Yeah and it’s almost like we cultivate our worldviews based largely on our own actual lived experiences and not numbers lol
Yeah, and it's almost like you're in the subreddit for the city you moved away from 10+ years ago and are telling people who live there how it is. We know how it is. We also have statistics that can tell us how it is. I'm sorry your experience was so negative.
Relatively speaking, we aren't Detroit. Our Police are well compensated. But one could go for months at a stretch without ever seeing a squad car. The only time I've ever seen one in an alley is if someone overdosed. Police presence won't stop crime. But it's a known deterrent. Back on patrol, peeps.