How much would this cost to round up people and transport them from one city to the other? Why not put that money towards Brantford resources, or even putting them up somewhere? This doesn't make sense to me.
The cost of setting up those supports vs the cost of a volunteer driving them and giving them a tent then leaving the bigger non profits to deal with them here I guess. They get donations of tents, so we are looking at the gas for someone to drive there and back.
The city quoted $650k for 15 beds last year (1 year costs, with future operating costs). The $50 in gas isn't touching that
Housing cost is cheaper in Brantford and Cambridge it would make sense at this point for the Ontario government to start financing supports there instead of overcrowding ours.
I pass three visible and two hidden camps with several tents on the way home from work (Montgomery to Kenilworth traffic circle) and many more across the city.. .
Why give them tents if they are relocating them for low income housing (?
'city housing' is for profit, most others are temporary.
None of it makes sense other than surrounding cities sending their unwanted our way in the promise of 'grass is greener'.
The programs work for some people but Hamilton's systems are strained as it is.
Ontario gov needs to create, pilot and implement programs in other cities as well.
Not surprised by this to be honest. Toronto, Burlington and Oakville have done this for years even going so far as to pay for cabs to relocate them into Hamilton and even pressing charges against some of the homeless people. This is how Burlington and Oakville have claimed to have lower homelessness rates while in actuality it's higher rate than what we actually have here in Hamilton.
Theres cities that they recommend homeless and addicts to go when they get out of jail because they can get their disability checks there easier and hamilton is one of them.
It's typically assistance in relocating folks to where there are community supports and services to help them when they fall on hard times. Is it better to connect people with where they can get help or to let them suffer further in a community without supports?
Shouldn't those affluent cities have more resources to provide support and services then Hamilton. How much are property taxes in Hamilton vs. Those communities sending their problems here?
In the ideal world those.communities should have the resources, but in this one, they clearly don't. Should we be forcing people back to Brantford or Oakville when there aren't social services, community kitchens, shelters, an encampment protocol or other connections (i.e. the homeless vaccination clinics during covid) available to them? It sounds inhumane.
The reality is that Hamilton has disproportionately invested in homeless and social support services relative to other communities. It shouldn't be a surprise that people come here.
Is it fair to taxpayers? Absolutely not. This is an issue for the Province to really tackle, but the reality is that they haven't dealt with it in 40+ years, during which every major party has been in power.
But those communities DO have the resources. They're amoung the richest in Canada. They simply choose to not provide social services.
Ironically the average Hamilton tax payer does NOT have the financial resources, but Hamilton is expected to disproportionately pay for all of rhe provinces issues.
And our current council makes it easy for the rest of the province to keep up this system with their decisions.
It's almost like the province should over see social services and its funding to ensure fairness, but the Harris Tories downloaded that back in the 90s.
I don't disagree they likely have the financial resources to implement programs, but the reality is that the social and physical infrastructure needed to support people who suddenly become homeless isn't there today. What's the solution?
While I'm no fan of Harris, the systemic issues with social supports go much further back. In the early-90s, the NDP ended many of the policies that allowed for homeless people with severe mental health issues to be forcibly institutionalized on the premise that new community supports would come to fruition. It was meant to give more dignity back and reduce costs. They didn't fund it, nor did any subsequent government step up. Now there are people who are homeless that are mentally living in a different world from the rest of us, and there's nothing to be done to get them help until they commit a criminal act. We literally have to wait for some to get assaulted or murdered so the government can step in and get them help.
None of what you have said indicates that this is something that is acceptable. Enough of this in Hamilton. Other cities need to share the load and change. We are not capable of endlessly adsorbing these issues. Do you want the lower city to be a ghost town except for abandoned houses and encampments?
We do what Milton or Halton is doing and requiring proof of prior Hamilton residency or shelter use within the last few years, before you are able to access city services.
Other municipalities need to step up.
This kind of thing isn't even a solution, what you're suggesting. Expanding endless shelter beds. Setting up endless tents.
We need fundamental change by all levels of government for a solution. Hamilton alone cannot solve it. Suggesting that Hamilton can solve it is a lie and totally irresponsible.
This is going to sound dramatic but many Hamiltonian’s are “suffering further in a community without supports”. There are encampments directly in front of children’s homes and the city seemingly does not care. So long as they are +10 metres away, it’s compliant. That ain’t right.
Could we bus our services to the encampment folk of Brantford instead? They could train locals?
Until money is provided from the prov and feds, these sort of shenanigans need to stop.
The encampment protocol fiasco is entirely the control of local Councillors. They could have chosen to sanction a handful of sites for them but instead compromised on a solution that fails everyone.
I’d strongly encourage you to write a letter to Council and your Councillor asking for your local parks to get an exemption. King Cameron in Ward 2 carved one out in the North End today for local sites. It seems that Council is open to revisiting the policy after so much public opposition due to their complete incompetence and ignoring nearly every staff recommendation on the matter.
Terrible take; this just shows why our problem is much worse than neighbouring cities who are essentially offloading the homeless onto our door step.
Each city should be individually address the issue for low income/geared to income housing not just shipping it somewhere else.
It seems as of 2022 we had between 500-600 beds available and at least 1500 homeless in Hamilton. I'm assuming that number is higher now. How are these people from other areas receiving care when we have a 3:1 disparity locally. I Might be dumb but I don't understand. Genuinely asking, is there something I'm missing?
How does this work with funding? If people want to live in Hamilton and access supports that are here, so be it, but this should not end up being a financial burden on the City - that’s unfair to the citizens and it is extremely unfair to people who will likely become seen as a problem to be encouraged to move along to the next city constantly
This is the problem with Hamilton throwing endless amounts of money at homelessness... it effectively incentives all the wrong people to send us their problems, and we'll end up paying for it.
Services should be for people who were last housed IN HAMILTON.
The city that allowed you to become homeless should pay for your services, no matter where they physically relocate you.
How do we prove where someone was last housed though? Not everyone updates their health card or whatever when they move because of a crisis or urgent situation. So we would be denying people access to those services because of bureaucracy
If they go to the last town that they didn't bother updating their healthcard from, and seek services there, they would not fall through the cracks. Why do you expect that one city should have to handle and pay for all cities problems?
If they can support themselves, fine. If they're accessing services that they are not contributing to, not fine. You take issue with libraries and other services asking for proof of residence? Or do you see it as a reasonable safeguard against huge costs that a municipality can't afford?
If other levels of government were responsible for these services, then no issue. To access provincial or federal services you generally have to prove residence as well, or you tend to have to pay. Why do you expect Hamilton above and beyond any other jurisdiction, to just endlessly give give give?
If you think Hamilton "gives" you're bananas. And you are okay with people being left to suffer because they can't get their paperwork? It's a weird take. Oh you're in desperate need and last time we have anything on file you're from a city 40 minutes drive away in rush hour so buckle up those bootstraps because you're red alert not allowed to be desperate here you need to find a ride back to where we think you should be and stay desperate. Did I get that correctly?
Ah yes the very poor and homeless driv8ng for appointments. Should you be going out of your city for things if poor people can't do the same? Weird take.
I never said they can't move. But their services should be paid for by the last place they were housed.
They should not be relocated to a city they've never paid into, and access services there.
Hamilton has no money. And right now they have significantly less money than they had months ago before this whole computer virus hit them.
As I mentioned in another post, it doesn’t matter what provincial government is in power, and for that matter what federal government is in power. It’ll never be NDP which Hamilton has continually proven for the past 50-60 years we’re only an NDP town and until we move out of that mindset we will never get money from those governments to help.
Nothing meaningful anyway.
I agree that all cities and towns need to pay their fair share, however I do see a problem with how to implement it. Some homeless just don't have any government issued ID anymore, and they sure won't know what their SIN# is, have an active bank account, nor have some old rent receipts stuffed in their pockets to prove that they were last "housed" in Hamilton. How is someone like that be able to prove that they once used to rent a room in Hamilton \~5 years ago so that they can access the shelter so they can have bed to sleep for the night?
Archived the page on the wayback machine as you know these kinda pages aren't so permanent
https://web.archive.org/web/20240626175323/ttps://classifieds.brantfordexpositor.ca/brantford/real-estate-for-rent/shelter-for-the-unhoused/8610b164da954c2c9a358f872a2d
I am old enough to remember when Toronto would give their unhoused and mentally unwell a free bus ticket to Hamilton lol. Now we're getting it from both sides I guess
...before people start blaming other cities for Hamilton's homeless population, you should understand that ALL cities and towns in Ontario have been experiencing a surge in homelessness over the past few years. Even if it was somehow possible to completely stop all homeless people from ever leaving the city/town they are currently in, Hamilton would still be generating it's own home-grown unhoused Hamiltonians at a high enough rate to keep our encampments full.
Trying to blame Brantford or Toronto for all of our unhoused population isn't going to solve anything.
No you're right everyone is experiencing the issue so why the fuck are they sending their problems here? I'm so sick of my city being talked shit about by Burlington Ancaster Oakville and Toronto now fucking Brantford is trying to dump their problem off on us too.
They (Brantford) are not really trying to dump their problems as much as a likely Hamilton based volunteer org offering to help. They can take an ad out anywhere, as long as it doesn't break rules on offering illegal services, hard for newspapers to say no (and some of the homeless orgs are very lawsuit happy)
> Downtown Oakville and Burlington sure as shit aren’t as bad as downtown Hamilton
Because Oakville and Burlington are a short walk away from Hamilton, which has better social services, ample greenspace, milder weather, and police services less likely to turn them out
Making low income housing and social services a municipal issue astoundingly stupid for this reason - it should be funded provincially (or federally) and allocated where the needs are, otherwise NIMBY municipalities will just witholding funding until people walk 15km down the road to a more accepting city
Both Burlington and Oakville have ample green space, the same weather and it's debatable on whether Halton police are more or less lax than our police. Social services exist in all areas, we just get advertised as having more of them due to our history of being a middle of the road place for those from halton, niagara and brant counties and the province making us into a collection spot (that is changing though so not nearly as accurate as it was, 20-30 years ago)
It's a 2-way road, not a 1-way. Sure some unhoused that was generated in Brantford (or Toronto) might pack their bags and try their luck in Hamilton, but there would also be home-grown unhoused Hamiltonians that decided to pack their bags and try their luck in Brantford or Toronto, or maybe even a different province.
As for Oakville and Burlington, those 2 cities are experiencing an increase too over the past few years. I remember driving around Burlington and Oakville many times 10 years ago doing deliveries, and remarking to myself how I have seen ZERO people that were obviously homeless. Now, that is something I cannot say anymore. Sure Oakville and Burlington is not as bad as Hamilton, but they sure as shit are experiencing a surge too.
When was this? Back in like ‘99? A police officer recently told me that people are often released from the Barton jail with nowhere to go except a Hamilton park, and that this includes the out of towners.
This is 100% what is happening. A friend works at the Barton Beer Store and the number of folks who are just booted out the door is HIGH. A lot, their first stop is for a beer, and then they mention they have to figure out how to get a tent since they're out of options.
Our jail is not just for people from Hamilton, I think that's lost on a lot of people.
> ...before people start blaming other cities for Hamilton's homeless population, you should understand that ALL cities and towns in Ontario have been experiencing a surge in homelessness over the past few years.
The problem isn't that homelessness exists, the problem is that Hamilton is turning into a dumping ground for other cities homeless population.
Hamilton always has been a dumping ground for the homeless from Toronto, Burlington and Oakville. It's just getting magnitudes worse and more cities are joining in on it lately.
I personally haven’t blamed these municipalities for the crisis we are in. However, one such municipality’s newspaper has accepted a paid advertisement from this group of volunteers, that appear to be coordinating the relocation of their unhoused population to Hamilton.
Hamilton is in a housing crisis and lacking shelter space. So where would these “safe spaces” with Hamilton organizations be other than in a park with wraparound services?
I do agree that the advertisement is dumb and should be taken down, and I also agree that the practice of other municipalities trying to pawn off their own homeless on other cities is unethical and should be stopped. However, I strongly believe that having the general public to believe that our homeless situation is the fault of Toronto or Brantford is going to solve jack shit.
The surge in homelessness is an Ontario-wide problem *at the minimum*; maybe it is a Canada-wide problem, but I am unfamiliar with municipalities outside of Ontario for me to make a say in that. This is an issue that needs to be solved provincially (or federally); having the cities and towns of Ontario fighting and blaming each other over this will not solve this problem.
Last time something like this was posted, it turned out to be an anti-homeless group that sent the respondents a link to a news story that you could get assisted suicide for poverty reasons
It would definitely help Hamilton to not have Brantford or any other city dump their homeless here. We have enough to deal with any more people doesn't help.
Yes but other municipalities aren't creating shelters or housing and they do send people here to use our services. Also important to consider that certain areas i.e. Halton to Toronto have higher incomes but offer less services
Edit: apparently those areas pay lower taxes too 🤨
Yes. We have a rate of 1.32% while people in Toronto pay 0.66%.
We are paying over double the amount of property tax here in Hamilton than most of the GTA.
https://wowa.ca/taxes/ontario-property-tax
On a 500k assessed home, taxes in Hamilton are $6,635. In Toronto, taxes on a $500k assessed home are $3,331.
There's a chart, scroll down a bit. This is for 2023. Rates have gone up slightly in Toronto too.
Whaat that's bs. I just assumed the richer areas could afford their own services but I guess this is what happens when one city acts as a hub for mental health and housing services while the others get a free ride :/
Thank you for the information!!
Perfect! If you're not born in Hamilton or lived here for 5 years paying rent our services aren't up for you.
We could have the best homeless shelters in Canada, and they'll always be over capacity, because well just keep sucking homeless in from places that don't have any shelters.
30 years ago they were called vagrant, drafters, transients. Shit, go watch the first Rambo if you want to see how they used to deal with them. It's a Canada wide problem, not a hamilton problem, and our tax dollars should be spent on people paying the taxes, not people from Yellowknife. If the cities stopped paying they might be able to force the federal hand
People here acting like homeless people don’t have a right to move and live wherever they want. They’re not cattle.
They’re literally transients. One day they might live in brantford, the next day in Hamilton. Two days later maybe Toronto. They’ll go wherever they can to get needs met (whether it’s services, or easier access to drugs)
But would their right to do so infringe on a home owner’s right to do so? What if someone can’t sell their house (move to another part of Canada) because there’s a giant pile of garbage in the nearby park? I’m not trying to be facetious here.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, it's just a fact that all Canadians have the right to live anywhere in the country whether they have a home or not. And no, the inability to sell your house isn't your rights being violated, it's the market at play. No one is stopping you from selling your house, but if no one wants to buy it that's the seller's issue. They'll have to lower the price or figure something out.
I get it, no one wants hobos near them, but the charter applies to them as much as it does to anyone else
Okay fair, but what if the homeowner is physically disabled? I get the section 7 piece, and the mobility one you mentioned, but what about section 15? People who are unhoused don’t fall under section 15 like disabled folk do.
Edit: My question really is, to what end?
We have removed your post as it appears to be in violation of Rule 3 (Slurs and/or Hate Speech). Multiple violations of the slurs/hate speech rule will lead to a ban from the sub.
How much would this cost to round up people and transport them from one city to the other? Why not put that money towards Brantford resources, or even putting them up somewhere? This doesn't make sense to me.
The cost of setting up those supports vs the cost of a volunteer driving them and giving them a tent then leaving the bigger non profits to deal with them here I guess. They get donations of tents, so we are looking at the gas for someone to drive there and back. The city quoted $650k for 15 beds last year (1 year costs, with future operating costs). The $50 in gas isn't touching that
Housing cost is cheaper in Brantford and Cambridge it would make sense at this point for the Ontario government to start financing supports there instead of overcrowding ours. I pass three visible and two hidden camps with several tents on the way home from work (Montgomery to Kenilworth traffic circle) and many more across the city.. . Why give them tents if they are relocating them for low income housing (? 'city housing' is for profit, most others are temporary. None of it makes sense other than surrounding cities sending their unwanted our way in the promise of 'grass is greener'. The programs work for some people but Hamilton's systems are strained as it is. Ontario gov needs to create, pilot and implement programs in other cities as well.
We all know why...
Seems WAAAY cheaper to drive down the 403 than it does to do anything locally.
Write to your Councillor about this. Share the link and take a screenshot before the newspaper takes down the ad. I have just done so.
Just did this
I guess the hope is the councillor of one city talks to a councillor in another city?
…to what end? They’ll do zip!
Aren't we going to an election year next year? They are going to try and secure their seat.
They’ll do zip because that’s all they CAN do. What magic do you think they have in their power?
Not surprised by this to be honest. Toronto, Burlington and Oakville have done this for years even going so far as to pay for cabs to relocate them into Hamilton and even pressing charges against some of the homeless people. This is how Burlington and Oakville have claimed to have lower homelessness rates while in actuality it's higher rate than what we actually have here in Hamilton.
That is despicable
Rumour in Brantford has been Hamilton was busing people in for years too.
Hamilton also busses people to Brantford and London. We're not innocent here. Most municipalities do this.
Theres cities that they recommend homeless and addicts to go when they get out of jail because they can get their disability checks there easier and hamilton is one of them.
It's typically assistance in relocating folks to where there are community supports and services to help them when they fall on hard times. Is it better to connect people with where they can get help or to let them suffer further in a community without supports?
Shouldn't those affluent cities have more resources to provide support and services then Hamilton. How much are property taxes in Hamilton vs. Those communities sending their problems here?
In the ideal world those.communities should have the resources, but in this one, they clearly don't. Should we be forcing people back to Brantford or Oakville when there aren't social services, community kitchens, shelters, an encampment protocol or other connections (i.e. the homeless vaccination clinics during covid) available to them? It sounds inhumane. The reality is that Hamilton has disproportionately invested in homeless and social support services relative to other communities. It shouldn't be a surprise that people come here. Is it fair to taxpayers? Absolutely not. This is an issue for the Province to really tackle, but the reality is that they haven't dealt with it in 40+ years, during which every major party has been in power.
But those communities DO have the resources. They're amoung the richest in Canada. They simply choose to not provide social services. Ironically the average Hamilton tax payer does NOT have the financial resources, but Hamilton is expected to disproportionately pay for all of rhe provinces issues. And our current council makes it easy for the rest of the province to keep up this system with their decisions. It's almost like the province should over see social services and its funding to ensure fairness, but the Harris Tories downloaded that back in the 90s.
I don't disagree they likely have the financial resources to implement programs, but the reality is that the social and physical infrastructure needed to support people who suddenly become homeless isn't there today. What's the solution? While I'm no fan of Harris, the systemic issues with social supports go much further back. In the early-90s, the NDP ended many of the policies that allowed for homeless people with severe mental health issues to be forcibly institutionalized on the premise that new community supports would come to fruition. It was meant to give more dignity back and reduce costs. They didn't fund it, nor did any subsequent government step up. Now there are people who are homeless that are mentally living in a different world from the rest of us, and there's nothing to be done to get them help until they commit a criminal act. We literally have to wait for some to get assaulted or murdered so the government can step in and get them help.
None of what you have said indicates that this is something that is acceptable. Enough of this in Hamilton. Other cities need to share the load and change. We are not capable of endlessly adsorbing these issues. Do you want the lower city to be a ghost town except for abandoned houses and encampments?
Please, explain how to solve this.
We do what Milton or Halton is doing and requiring proof of prior Hamilton residency or shelter use within the last few years, before you are able to access city services. Other municipalities need to step up. This kind of thing isn't even a solution, what you're suggesting. Expanding endless shelter beds. Setting up endless tents. We need fundamental change by all levels of government for a solution. Hamilton alone cannot solve it. Suggesting that Hamilton can solve it is a lie and totally irresponsible.
This is going to sound dramatic but many Hamiltonian’s are “suffering further in a community without supports”. There are encampments directly in front of children’s homes and the city seemingly does not care. So long as they are +10 metres away, it’s compliant. That ain’t right. Could we bus our services to the encampment folk of Brantford instead? They could train locals? Until money is provided from the prov and feds, these sort of shenanigans need to stop.
The encampment protocol fiasco is entirely the control of local Councillors. They could have chosen to sanction a handful of sites for them but instead compromised on a solution that fails everyone. I’d strongly encourage you to write a letter to Council and your Councillor asking for your local parks to get an exemption. King Cameron in Ward 2 carved one out in the North End today for local sites. It seems that Council is open to revisiting the policy after so much public opposition due to their complete incompetence and ignoring nearly every staff recommendation on the matter.
Heck what’s another letter hmm? I like your optimism!
Totally false. Hamilton unhoused routinely come to Burlington for hotels.
Fk off. Don't we have enough! Where are they going?
We send a hockey team and they send us that. Not a fair trade.
I honestly believe that this is the reason that municipalities are not trying to actually help the unhoused.
Is Hamilton compensated at all for handling what other cities choose not to?
This illustrates why it is somewhat futile for Hamilton to build huge amounts of low income housing. There's effectively infinite demand.
Wut
Terrible take; this just shows why our problem is much worse than neighbouring cities who are essentially offloading the homeless onto our door step. Each city should be individually address the issue for low income/geared to income housing not just shipping it somewhere else.
Obviously I don't think it is a terrible take. I think it is something Hamilton has to consider.
The demand is high, but it’s finite.
It seems as of 2022 we had between 500-600 beds available and at least 1500 homeless in Hamilton. I'm assuming that number is higher now. How are these people from other areas receiving care when we have a 3:1 disparity locally. I Might be dumb but I don't understand. Genuinely asking, is there something I'm missing?
How does this work with funding? If people want to live in Hamilton and access supports that are here, so be it, but this should not end up being a financial burden on the City - that’s unfair to the citizens and it is extremely unfair to people who will likely become seen as a problem to be encouraged to move along to the next city constantly
This is the problem with Hamilton throwing endless amounts of money at homelessness... it effectively incentives all the wrong people to send us their problems, and we'll end up paying for it. Services should be for people who were last housed IN HAMILTON. The city that allowed you to become homeless should pay for your services, no matter where they physically relocate you.
How do we prove where someone was last housed though? Not everyone updates their health card or whatever when they move because of a crisis or urgent situation. So we would be denying people access to those services because of bureaucracy
Adding basic qualifications to participate in a public program is not bureaucracy. Plenty of stuff requires a proof of address or most recent address.
And that's how people fall through the cracks.
If they go to the last town that they didn't bother updating their healthcard from, and seek services there, they would not fall through the cracks. Why do you expect that one city should have to handle and pay for all cities problems?
Why do you expect that poor people aren't allowed to move cities any more than the rest of Canadians?
If they can support themselves, fine. If they're accessing services that they are not contributing to, not fine. You take issue with libraries and other services asking for proof of residence? Or do you see it as a reasonable safeguard against huge costs that a municipality can't afford? If other levels of government were responsible for these services, then no issue. To access provincial or federal services you generally have to prove residence as well, or you tend to have to pay. Why do you expect Hamilton above and beyond any other jurisdiction, to just endlessly give give give?
If you think Hamilton "gives" you're bananas. And you are okay with people being left to suffer because they can't get their paperwork? It's a weird take. Oh you're in desperate need and last time we have anything on file you're from a city 40 minutes drive away in rush hour so buckle up those bootstraps because you're red alert not allowed to be desperate here you need to find a ride back to where we think you should be and stay desperate. Did I get that correctly?
Lol I have to drive for appointments all the time 🤷♀️
Ah yes the very poor and homeless driv8ng for appointments. Should you be going out of your city for things if poor people can't do the same? Weird take.
I never said they can't move. But their services should be paid for by the last place they were housed. They should not be relocated to a city they've never paid into, and access services there.
It's literally ONTARIO based. Its PROVINCIAL.
And yet we have a budget to deal with homelessness, at the city level.
Provided by.... the province.
Hamilton has no money. And right now they have significantly less money than they had months ago before this whole computer virus hit them. As I mentioned in another post, it doesn’t matter what provincial government is in power, and for that matter what federal government is in power. It’ll never be NDP which Hamilton has continually proven for the past 50-60 years we’re only an NDP town and until we move out of that mindset we will never get money from those governments to help. Nothing meaningful anyway.
I agree that all cities and towns need to pay their fair share, however I do see a problem with how to implement it. Some homeless just don't have any government issued ID anymore, and they sure won't know what their SIN# is, have an active bank account, nor have some old rent receipts stuffed in their pockets to prove that they were last "housed" in Hamilton. How is someone like that be able to prove that they once used to rent a room in Hamilton \~5 years ago so that they can access the shelter so they can have bed to sleep for the night?
This was like the article last year where the homeless people were from Sudbury and wouldn’t give reason why they were here.
Great just what we needed, more people to steal my Amazon packages.
Do you realize the irony of this sentence?
My God, this is such bs. Take care of your people!
Archived the page on the wayback machine as you know these kinda pages aren't so permanent https://web.archive.org/web/20240626175323/ttps://classifieds.brantfordexpositor.ca/brantford/real-estate-for-rent/shelter-for-the-unhoused/8610b164da954c2c9a358f872a2d
I am old enough to remember when Toronto would give their unhoused and mentally unwell a free bus ticket to Hamilton lol. Now we're getting it from both sides I guess
Ah good old bus ticket therapy
If you've ever wondered if other cities bussed their addicts in, well, wonder no more. Not helped by the moronic "encampment protocols."
I honestly believe that this is the reason that municipalities are not trying to actually help the unhoused.
After someone setting a tent on fire and driving away this doesn't seem like a good move for the homeless.
hamilton did the exact same thing a few years back. sent them by the bus to brantford.
😡
...before people start blaming other cities for Hamilton's homeless population, you should understand that ALL cities and towns in Ontario have been experiencing a surge in homelessness over the past few years. Even if it was somehow possible to completely stop all homeless people from ever leaving the city/town they are currently in, Hamilton would still be generating it's own home-grown unhoused Hamiltonians at a high enough rate to keep our encampments full. Trying to blame Brantford or Toronto for all of our unhoused population isn't going to solve anything.
No you're right everyone is experiencing the issue so why the fuck are they sending their problems here? I'm so sick of my city being talked shit about by Burlington Ancaster Oakville and Toronto now fucking Brantford is trying to dump their problem off on us too.
They (Brantford) are not really trying to dump their problems as much as a likely Hamilton based volunteer org offering to help. They can take an ad out anywhere, as long as it doesn't break rules on offering illegal services, hard for newspapers to say no (and some of the homeless orgs are very lawsuit happy)
Right but getting MORE than those already living here isn’t helping. Downtown Oakville and Burlington sure as shit aren’t as bad as downtown Hamilton
> Downtown Oakville and Burlington sure as shit aren’t as bad as downtown Hamilton Because Oakville and Burlington are a short walk away from Hamilton, which has better social services, ample greenspace, milder weather, and police services less likely to turn them out Making low income housing and social services a municipal issue astoundingly stupid for this reason - it should be funded provincially (or federally) and allocated where the needs are, otherwise NIMBY municipalities will just witholding funding until people walk 15km down the road to a more accepting city
Both Burlington and Oakville have ample green space, the same weather and it's debatable on whether Halton police are more or less lax than our police. Social services exist in all areas, we just get advertised as having more of them due to our history of being a middle of the road place for those from halton, niagara and brant counties and the province making us into a collection spot (that is changing though so not nearly as accurate as it was, 20-30 years ago)
It's a 2-way road, not a 1-way. Sure some unhoused that was generated in Brantford (or Toronto) might pack their bags and try their luck in Hamilton, but there would also be home-grown unhoused Hamiltonians that decided to pack their bags and try their luck in Brantford or Toronto, or maybe even a different province. As for Oakville and Burlington, those 2 cities are experiencing an increase too over the past few years. I remember driving around Burlington and Oakville many times 10 years ago doing deliveries, and remarking to myself how I have seen ZERO people that were obviously homeless. Now, that is something I cannot say anymore. Sure Oakville and Burlington is not as bad as Hamilton, but they sure as shit are experiencing a surge too.
We have several cops on the sub who have said they have driven homeless people to shelters in other cities when ours are full too. We all do it
When was this? Back in like ‘99? A police officer recently told me that people are often released from the Barton jail with nowhere to go except a Hamilton park, and that this includes the out of towners.
This is 100% what is happening. A friend works at the Barton Beer Store and the number of folks who are just booted out the door is HIGH. A lot, their first stop is for a beer, and then they mention they have to figure out how to get a tent since they're out of options. Our jail is not just for people from Hamilton, I think that's lost on a lot of people.
In the last year or so
> ...before people start blaming other cities for Hamilton's homeless population, you should understand that ALL cities and towns in Ontario have been experiencing a surge in homelessness over the past few years. The problem isn't that homelessness exists, the problem is that Hamilton is turning into a dumping ground for other cities homeless population.
Hamilton always has been a dumping ground for the homeless from Toronto, Burlington and Oakville. It's just getting magnitudes worse and more cities are joining in on it lately.
I personally haven’t blamed these municipalities for the crisis we are in. However, one such municipality’s newspaper has accepted a paid advertisement from this group of volunteers, that appear to be coordinating the relocation of their unhoused population to Hamilton. Hamilton is in a housing crisis and lacking shelter space. So where would these “safe spaces” with Hamilton organizations be other than in a park with wraparound services?
I do agree that the advertisement is dumb and should be taken down, and I also agree that the practice of other municipalities trying to pawn off their own homeless on other cities is unethical and should be stopped. However, I strongly believe that having the general public to believe that our homeless situation is the fault of Toronto or Brantford is going to solve jack shit. The surge in homelessness is an Ontario-wide problem *at the minimum*; maybe it is a Canada-wide problem, but I am unfamiliar with municipalities outside of Ontario for me to make a say in that. This is an issue that needs to be solved provincially (or federally); having the cities and towns of Ontario fighting and blaming each other over this will not solve this problem.
Last time something like this was posted, it turned out to be an anti-homeless group that sent the respondents a link to a news story that you could get assisted suicide for poverty reasons
This gave me honeypot vibes as well.
It would definitely help Hamilton to not have Brantford or any other city dump their homeless here. We have enough to deal with any more people doesn't help.
Having other municipalities export their homeless to Hamilton isn’t going to solve anything, either.
Yes but other municipalities aren't creating shelters or housing and they do send people here to use our services. Also important to consider that certain areas i.e. Halton to Toronto have higher incomes but offer less services Edit: apparently those areas pay lower taxes too 🤨
Hamilton has one of the highest tax rates in the province.
Higher than the gta?
Yes. We have a rate of 1.32% while people in Toronto pay 0.66%. We are paying over double the amount of property tax here in Hamilton than most of the GTA. https://wowa.ca/taxes/ontario-property-tax On a 500k assessed home, taxes in Hamilton are $6,635. In Toronto, taxes on a $500k assessed home are $3,331. There's a chart, scroll down a bit. This is for 2023. Rates have gone up slightly in Toronto too.
Whaat that's bs. I just assumed the richer areas could afford their own services but I guess this is what happens when one city acts as a hub for mental health and housing services while the others get a free ride :/ Thank you for the information!!
Yep and I heard taxes are higher if you’re next to a park, gotta love those great campground amenities 🙄
Perfect! If you're not born in Hamilton or lived here for 5 years paying rent our services aren't up for you. We could have the best homeless shelters in Canada, and they'll always be over capacity, because well just keep sucking homeless in from places that don't have any shelters. 30 years ago they were called vagrant, drafters, transients. Shit, go watch the first Rambo if you want to see how they used to deal with them. It's a Canada wide problem, not a hamilton problem, and our tax dollars should be spent on people paying the taxes, not people from Yellowknife. If the cities stopped paying they might be able to force the federal hand
People here acting like homeless people don’t have a right to move and live wherever they want. They’re not cattle. They’re literally transients. One day they might live in brantford, the next day in Hamilton. Two days later maybe Toronto. They’ll go wherever they can to get needs met (whether it’s services, or easier access to drugs)
Yup, moving and living anywhere in the country is a charter right
But would their right to do so infringe on a home owner’s right to do so? What if someone can’t sell their house (move to another part of Canada) because there’s a giant pile of garbage in the nearby park? I’m not trying to be facetious here.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, it's just a fact that all Canadians have the right to live anywhere in the country whether they have a home or not. And no, the inability to sell your house isn't your rights being violated, it's the market at play. No one is stopping you from selling your house, but if no one wants to buy it that's the seller's issue. They'll have to lower the price or figure something out. I get it, no one wants hobos near them, but the charter applies to them as much as it does to anyone else
Okay fair, but what if the homeowner is physically disabled? I get the section 7 piece, and the mobility one you mentioned, but what about section 15? People who are unhoused don’t fall under section 15 like disabled folk do. Edit: My question really is, to what end?
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