Y’know, I feel like there’s another weapon here that I don’t really see people talking about all that much just in general - the Dagger lmao
I really don’t know what it needs, but it seriously needs some love because if people do ever use their secondary, it’s either the redeemer for its damage and rate of fire, or the senator for the damage and medium pen. Not really a high priority in the grand scheme of it all because people basically never use secondaries anyway, but I do feel like the Dagger is basically just a dead weapon because people either go redeemer or senator
That aside, I can honestly get behind most of what you’re suggesting here, it all seems pretty sensible. Don’t really have much to add, since pretty much everyone has said they want the Eruptor back to how it used to be elsewhere, and the crossbow I haven’t seen much about since it was already in a weird spot and only got worse when they halved its explosion radius
I think the dagger should have a unique property in the laser family. Like insane damage up close and a large drop off so it fits in the personal side arm category. That profile would make it distinctly different than the other side arms, be in inline with its name, and still be thematically accurate in the laser family.
Make it similar to the primary weapon from deadspace, where it shoots in kinda a flat line, but doesn't reach very far. Let's get some dismemberments!!
The heatsink on the dagger is my issue. By the time you actually get a beam coming out you've used 1/4 of the heatsink and then actually shooting it heats up so fast. The up time of the weapon is so low that it's simply not worth bringing
The crossbow is a bit more usable now that it can close bug holes. It acts like a primary weapon grenade launcher that is poor against multiple enemies, but able to quickly take nests. I've been trying it paired with the redeemer and flamethrower for close range, but it isn't quite there compared to options like the breaker incendiary at least for bugs with the current spawn mix.
For secondaries, I have seen a lot of grenade pistol use as an alternative over the redeemer or senator. Mainly on bug missions due to how many bug holes there can be on the heavy nests. The verdict is okay if you are good at headshots, but is too punishing over the senator for bots. Dagger and the original pistol are the odd ones out for usability.
I would be happy with current stats and damage as is, but over half heat cap it goes to medium penetration and more damage. Make it worth it to run it hot.
Spray and Spray being more peashooter than already is? Hell nah, increase mag size, damage and reduce total mag, shotgun being peashooter is terrible in videogame
For Dilligence I prefer the gun shoot faster and with more reserve than being another counter sniper...
Purifier can just be an energy grenade launcher(more damage and AoE) with infinite ammo if they keep the current RoF(slower than railgun btw)
Upvotes so hard! This is an awesome post, you didn't just complain, you said the issue with each gun and also offered creative and good solutions. This is the kind of posts we need here. Love this!
Good stuff, and I mostly agree. To me, the major concern is making sure guns have good use cases. They need a clear role that is realistically useful that they are the best option for.
Anyways, my thoughts:
LibPen: This should be a more flexible Liberator/Adjudicator option. The lower base damage and higher recoil is enough of a balance factor with the basic Lib, so it should have the Liberator’s mag size. This would make it better vs chaff than the Adjudicator while being better than the Liberator vs things with a bit of armor. Also review the LibPen’s durable damage to make sure it is keeping that edge, too.
LibConcussive: The LC’s damage is fine, but its rate of fire is tanking its time to kill. 50% faster RoF would do it, splitting the difference between the current state and a regular Liberator. Adjust the recoil keep the handling similar. I do use this gun regularly as a backup when I run a support MG and the ability to create space is awesome, but it is far too easy to get overwhelmed since you aren’t actually killing anything.
Slugger: Agree, though I miss the demo force a lot too. Fix the balance with worse bullet drop and damage falloff to justify restoring the stagger.
Breaker: With all the other buffs, the extra mag size won’t make it OP. I use this kind of like a Punisher that trades power and stagger for an “Oh Shit” full auto option.
Breaker S&P: Just add ammo. This is a dedicated chaff clear machine and that pellet spread rapidly weakens it getting into mid range.
Diligence: I used to main this before moving to the pre-buff DCS. I went to the DCS for the damage and challenge. With the DCS handing buffs and buffs to both guns, they are overlapping too much and the DCS is the generically better option. I would lean into the Dili’s better ergonomics to make it the more flexible option. Improve handling, recoil, and mag size (25 rounds, 30 recoil, Liberator-like handling). Check on the sound profile (I’m pretty sure it’s better than the DCS but it should be quite better). The idea here is the Dili can do DCS things with a bit more skill but the better handling and sound profile makes it better when you need to go into a base, silent or loud.
Purifier: Not much to say here, other than it should be able to reliably 1-shot scout striders in a full charge. Killing scout striders quickly is the main reason I’ll take the Scorcher and if the Purifier can’t do that, I can’t justify taking it, regardless of splash. This is a little tricky, since it starts getting into railgun territory, but then again the railgun needs help too.
A lot of the older nerfs can probably just be reverted. They came from an era where everyone used the same guns because those were the only guns able to deal with the threats.
Even in its older form, the slugger wouldn’t be the top DMR in the game anymore, the diligence CS eclipses it easily in that role.
Which is not to say they should just revert it - there might be a better set of changes. But it’d be nice to see them revisit some guns like the Slugger, Railgun, etc. that were previously nerfed for maybe the wrong reasons.
The diligence counter sniper is perfect as it is, if they’re gonna change it they should make it bolt action and take it to Medium 4 or higher because otherwise it’s pointless.
Making the regular diligence the same penetration as the diligence counter sniper is fine imo but then there is no reason to use the counter because the counter already one shots everything important so if you take its spot upgrading the regular diligence the counter is largely irrelevant.
Then you encroach on the Eruptor so then you really got problems
I think the spray and pray needs to have much more ammo per mag and it should shape the pellets to spread more horizontally and not as much vertically to make it kind of like the Contra spread weapon. It should almost be a wall of pellets.
This is a great post, I’d (and I imagine many others) would be extremely happy if these changes came through. The scythe especially is a bugbear for me, I want a cool fucking beam gun but everytime I use it I just think “I could do all this with the sickle in half the time”. It’s really got no reason to exist right now, some kind of “armour melt” or multi target penetration (or both lol) would make it well worth using.
I want the Breaker Spray & Pray to mean it's name: lower the damage, double the mag size, double the RPM, lower the recoil, saturate an area with lead. Probably not to that degree but you know, increase the mag size and RPM in general so it truly is spray and pray.
For the concussion liberator I would add a small increase to all received damage after taking a hit, effect stacks with multiple hits. Encourage team work.
Arc thrower needs its misfiring fixed, the ability to hit flying enemies, the ability to hit enemies standing directly in front of you, longer range to have a non-zero chance of ever killing a hulk, and probably either a slight increase in its TTK vs chargers (like 6 headshots to 5) or for its shots to better reduce the total mob health pool vs just the limb health pool (so that you can kill a charger with just 6 shots rather than specifically 6 headshots). Currently when it doesn't misfire it's fairly good against bugs with excellent trash clear and some ability to kill chargers but is weak vs bots due to lacking range and vs both factions has a ton of QoL issues. Giving it back its range would let it be a reasonable weapon vs bots again and giving it either slightly more damage vs large or less dependence on hitting the same weakpoint would make it feel better against chargers without pushing it too far. It'd be probably pretty similar to pre-nerf arc thrower in terms of power, but given that other weapons/strategems have been buffed and additional threats that the arc thrower can't effectively deal with have been added being close to but not quite as good as old arc thrower likely wouldn't be overwhelming.
I actually kinda liked the purifier after the latest changes. My only gripe with it is the fucking hunters that get in your face and you can't do shit about them.
Give it ability to choose bugholes and make the damage scale with the charge up like ARC launcher and it'll be a great weapon with knockback, crowd control, excellent ammo economy
Yet to try it against bots.
Rail Rifle: Give it a God Damn Magnified scope:
If I am going to shoot a slug the size of a rice at the enemy via electromagnetism at mach 8 (~3km/s), you know what that is? That's a perfect sniper/long range anti-vehicle weapon! I don't have to lead the shot, I don't have to take drop into account, that thing will have enormous stopping power for it's size because of that velocity! WHY THE *censored by Ministry of Censorship* DOES IT HAVE A RED DOT?!
Also, make the projectile travel fast. And penetrate armor like crazy. Maybe force a backpack "Power source" fpr balance?
Nothing about being a railgun requires high velocity slugs. In fact, current handheld EM guns go the opposite route, with bigger, lower velocity slugs.
As for the suggestion, the railgun has defined role for short-mid range anti-medium with good mobility. A backpack kills the gun, and going the sniper route puts it up against the AMR, which would outclass it. If you buffed the railgun there, you then risk it invalidating the AT options.
IMO improve the ammo economy, remove safe mode, give it safe mode level charge and damage immediately, and add an additional charge level for higher durable damage so it *can* kill tough stuff with enough risk and ammo investment.
I agree witheverything EXCEPT THE DILIGENCE. The diligence has very good handling, that's basically all it has.
For that, I would rather use the diligence against terminids than the counter-sniper.
The buffs it could use: faster reload speed
The diligence has great ammo economy and it's main strength is being average at both close, medium and long range. To enhance it's self defense capabilities, I would give it a reload speed buff.
Better handling: the handling is already good, but what If it had MORE? I want to be able to snipe while standing, and this would allow me to do that.
Attack speed increase: the diligence falls off against light and medium armored enemies. An attack speed buff would allow it to kill brood commanders, nursing spewers faster, while not breaking any damage tresholds wich make the counter-sniper strong (oneshotting devastators)
I would accept getting all of these OR
just simply more damage. More damage would oneshot hunters anywhere, kill devastators in one hit, shriekers in one shot this woukd turn the weapon into a beast with it's handling, ammo count and attack speed. This would turn this into the best weapon in the game. And believe me, aiming with this weapon is vers easy, I can take down three hives of shriekers with one and a half mags counting the misses, now imagine that you oneshot them.
I think in general guns need to have character and not just be "another thing that does the same things slightly differently".
For example Pummeler: it had this great ability to stun-lock enemies. It was fun because of that, despite having lower damage. Now it just has lower damage...
Purifier. Alternative suggestion: make this gun charge 2-3 times faster. It would instantaneously feel better. I mean something similar to the Sickle: the wind-up is there but it doesn't feel like a hindrance too much. I would even agree to slight damage decrease if the charge-up is shorter. Benchmark: make it so it can stagger and then kill a berserker patrol.
Eruptor. So what if the shrapnel could deal over 9000 damage? It still didn't allow you clear waves of enemies and the handling of that gun is probably worst in the game. It was risk/skill/reward gun. Bring back the shrapnel! Alternatively make it feel/handle better, so that it's strong punches with smaller AoE damage can be placed better.
Scythe/Laser Cannon: make it so the beam could slice enemies like a lightsaber. That is what these weapons feel like they should be doing. I.e. when you move through a joint that can be cut, it will be cut off momentarily (and you don't need to hold the beam there).
Arc Thrower: right now it just feels like a worse version of punisher. Sure, it has the potential to deal with heavily armored enemies, but it's not fun to stay in one place waiting until your arcs eventually deplete the health of whatever you are aiming at. I mean Blitzer does less damage, and yet I can achieve more with Blitzer than with the Arc Thrower. Proposition: make it discharge arcs over a period of time. I.e. you wind it up, and it acts like a Tesla coil, waiting arcs left and right.
Shotguns with spread in general: make projectiles more visible, so we can gauge the spread and aim better. Currently, only Incendiary Breaker has this.
Dagger. Its only feature is that you can explode mines without "wasting" ammo. Otherwise it's the worst pistol in the game. Make it handle much tighter, and make the laser increase intensity/damage as you are firing. This would make it awesome and rewarding.
Yeah, that would be nice. Maybe what I am proposing could be a different weapon.
I mean, imagine: you charge up, and then it emits arcs like a lightning machine gun.
They also need to fix the misfiring issue for all arc weapons. Feels 'great' charging up for a full second then fizzle followed by charging for another second and fizzle. The misfiring bug really kills the arc weapons.
It's a short range weapon and it excels at that.
I like running it with the laser cannon against bots. Laser is your actual primary, knight drops berserkers fast when they get close.
I've said it in my own posts, but I will leave it here also:
Rifle rework:
1st person mode: consume double/triple ammo for tap-fire only, increased damage/AP shots. 3rd person, auto mode. (Like Ash from Overwatch)
On top of that, add under-barrel attachments, (launcher for nades/EMS/stun/smoke), each gun with only one type of launcher.
Sniper rework:
Add silencer. So, it still serves value after the rifle rework.
Shotguns:
Like what OP said.
SMGs:
I don't know, maybe Akimbo? Would be cool as f.
| I just want to start off by saying this latest patch was pretty good in terms of balancing a lot of unused weapons. I am increasingly becoming a fan of AH just because they actively listen to the community. I just wanted to open a discussion on some weapons that seem to have been forgotten.
They have been shown to do this ONE time. Stop giving them credit for being nice once after taking multiple dumps on their player base's doorstep.
And give the Eruptor back it's Shrapnel. It's still feel so much weaker and lacking in identity. Take the time to fix it properly without removing it's identity because that's easier than finding a way for the Shrapnel to not insta-kill Chargers and players.
The Scythe is meant to be used like a scalpel. If you’re aiming at center mass you’re wrong. Headshots always, unless it’s a bigger bug then slow it down with leg shots first before focusing on the head. Or just switch to the laser cannon.
Penatrator: nah, it needs more damage more than it needs more ammo. If you're going to leave the mag at 30, at least make it equal damage to a base Liberator.
Concussive: I used this gun once and left the game to pick something else because of how bad it was. I don't think I have enough experience with it to make a stupendous suggestion by any means but, if they want to continue with their idea of suppression, give it a bit of AoE, give it a much larger magazine, more RoF, and better ergonomics to actually be able to act as a support to others.
Knight: honestly, I like the knight. Not really sure why it gets shit on so much. Just fix the resupply issue and maybe lower the recoil a tad.
Slugger: agree.
Breaker: agree.
Spray and pray: this gun already does less damage than it's effectively identical counterpart, why lower it further? I'd recommend removing the ridiculous round cone fire where half your pellets are guaranteed to hit fuck and all and change it to a flat cone so it's actually effective at clearing chaff like it's meant to. It probably wouldn't even need a damage boost if more of the pellets could hit.
Diligence: slightly lower damage, slightly increase mag size, ad a fire mode that lets you double tap with a single trigger pull with little to no recoil between the two shots.
Breaker Spray and Pray is not a bad gun. It's just the Incendiary gun outclasses all guns for dealing with chaff, it's as effective if not more so at times than an airburst rocket launcher. You just tag all the little guys with a pellet and they catch on fire dying before they hit get to you. I can get 30+ kills with one magazine vs bug breaches plus Incendiary is literally the best gun in the game vs shrieker swarms. So yeah Breaker Spray and Pray is fine, it deals with chaff well, it's just the Incendiary is too good easily a tier above other guns vs chaff. Spray and Pray is better vs Incendiary in ammo economy and killing lots of chaff quickly that's at point blank range though while suffering vs elites and not having the really strong fire dot effect.
Lib Pen: give it AP4. That's literally the one change that will make it a very viable alternative to the Adj.
Lib Con: Increase its ROF to match the Pummeler (475). Its TTK is terrible and its extra effect is worse (knock back vs. stun). I doubt even with this 50% buff it can compete against the Pummeler because the latter has more ammo and is one-handed.
Breaker S&P: keep the ammo capacity, double the number of pellets and double the spread to make it a true chaff clear specialist.
Agree with reverting Breaker capacity and Slugger stagger nerf. Increase the Slugger's projectile drag to reduce its effective range.
Purifier: give it an actual charge up curve. It already has a charge up mechanic that varies damage from 30% to 300%. But the charge up times are placeholders meaning it's always only charging to 100% at 1s. Solution: give it a 0.1/0.3/2.8 charge up curve. This means that it starts with 30% damage with a minimum charge time of 0.1s, every 0.3s you gain a charge level for 30% more damage, and at 2.8s you are at max level with 300% damage.
Knight: reduce recoil to 10 and max RPM to 1100 (same as redeemer), increase damage to 60/6. Basically a primary version of the redeemer with more ammo.
Diligence: I don't know what would make it viable without stepping on the toes of the DCS. The DCS is already in a good spot. What you are proposing should be reserved for a future bolt-action sniper rifle. The only thing I can think of is increasing its damage to 128 (same as pre-buff DCS) so it can one-shot devastators in the head. The same applies to the Verdict pistol.
To add on:
Sickle needs its magazines reverted back to 6, dropping it to 3 was unnecessary.
Scorcher could use a magazine capacity buff to 25 or 30, 15 seems too low and it runs out quick as a result.
HMG should have a magazine capacity of 100, not 75. Its an HMG, why only 75 rounds?
Agree with all of the other points, lots of weapons need love.
Hard disagree on these three.
Sickle has great ammo efficiency simply by not going full ham, and if you do, you have the equivalent of 5 AR mags. Going back to 6 sinks eliminated what little ammo pressure it feels now.
Scorcher is an incredible gun in so many ways, and the mag/ammo is the only real drawback. It doesn't need any sort of buff.
HMG just got a pile of direct and indirect buffs and feels amazing right now. It just got a 50% damage boost, big durable damage boost on top of that, better handling with the new armors, and better recoil control with the boosted crouch/prone recoil.
The fundamental balance of weapons in this game is still way, way off, and the changes you are proposing do very little to change that.
The reality is that the weapon with the lowest TTK will always come out on top as long as Medium enemies, like Berserkers and Brood Commanders, are fundamentally bullet sponges to weapons that are ineffective against them. The Dominator is so far and away the best weapon right now it's not close because it can 1-3 shot every enemy in the game that doesn't require Support Weapons to deal with efficiently, and without having large enough drawbacks to encourage swapping to a secondary or support weapon to deal with small units.
Unless Arrowhead starts balancing the game around a 'hits to kill' metric instead of an arbitrary damage per shot system, Primary weapons will continue to be in a terrible balance state.
Y’know, I feel like there’s another weapon here that I don’t really see people talking about all that much just in general - the Dagger lmao I really don’t know what it needs, but it seriously needs some love because if people do ever use their secondary, it’s either the redeemer for its damage and rate of fire, or the senator for the damage and medium pen. Not really a high priority in the grand scheme of it all because people basically never use secondaries anyway, but I do feel like the Dagger is basically just a dead weapon because people either go redeemer or senator That aside, I can honestly get behind most of what you’re suggesting here, it all seems pretty sensible. Don’t really have much to add, since pretty much everyone has said they want the Eruptor back to how it used to be elsewhere, and the crossbow I haven’t seen much about since it was already in a weird spot and only got worse when they halved its explosion radius
I think the dagger should have a unique property in the laser family. Like insane damage up close and a large drop off so it fits in the personal side arm category. That profile would make it distinctly different than the other side arms, be in inline with its name, and still be thematically accurate in the laser family.
There was a primary known as the tanto in the first game that was effectively that. A one handed short range high damage laser weapon.
Sounds like there is a good road map from the HD1 weapons. Is HD1 still worth playing?
That profile already existed in the tanto. It was basically a lightsaber with fixed length. The only problem is gauging depth in third person 3d.
Make it similar to the primary weapon from deadspace, where it shoots in kinda a flat line, but doesn't reach very far. Let's get some dismemberments!!
The heatsink on the dagger is my issue. By the time you actually get a beam coming out you've used 1/4 of the heatsink and then actually shooting it heats up so fast. The up time of the weapon is so low that it's simply not worth bringing
The crossbow is a bit more usable now that it can close bug holes. It acts like a primary weapon grenade launcher that is poor against multiple enemies, but able to quickly take nests. I've been trying it paired with the redeemer and flamethrower for close range, but it isn't quite there compared to options like the breaker incendiary at least for bugs with the current spawn mix. For secondaries, I have seen a lot of grenade pistol use as an alternative over the redeemer or senator. Mainly on bug missions due to how many bug holes there can be on the heavy nests. The verdict is okay if you are good at headshots, but is too punishing over the senator for bots. Dagger and the original pistol are the odd ones out for usability.
It's never talked about because everyone rightly forgets it exists.
Absolutely, everything I know about the dagger is that it's the most useless weapon in the game rn. I propose stun gun.
All the beam weapons need an adjustable intensity to increase damage rate while increasingnoverheat rate
That’s a sick suggestion! Like different selectable fire modes each increasing dps/armor pen at the cost of overheat?
I would be happy with current stats and damage as is, but over half heat cap it goes to medium penetration and more damage. Make it worth it to run it hot.
Spray and Spray being more peashooter than already is? Hell nah, increase mag size, damage and reduce total mag, shotgun being peashooter is terrible in videogame For Dilligence I prefer the gun shoot faster and with more reserve than being another counter sniper... Purifier can just be an energy grenade launcher(more damage and AoE) with infinite ammo if they keep the current RoF(slower than railgun btw)
it's definitely not slower than railgun, you just need to get the firing tempo down
Upvotes so hard! This is an awesome post, you didn't just complain, you said the issue with each gun and also offered creative and good solutions. This is the kind of posts we need here. Love this!
Thanks for the kind words!!
Good stuff, and I mostly agree. To me, the major concern is making sure guns have good use cases. They need a clear role that is realistically useful that they are the best option for. Anyways, my thoughts: LibPen: This should be a more flexible Liberator/Adjudicator option. The lower base damage and higher recoil is enough of a balance factor with the basic Lib, so it should have the Liberator’s mag size. This would make it better vs chaff than the Adjudicator while being better than the Liberator vs things with a bit of armor. Also review the LibPen’s durable damage to make sure it is keeping that edge, too. LibConcussive: The LC’s damage is fine, but its rate of fire is tanking its time to kill. 50% faster RoF would do it, splitting the difference between the current state and a regular Liberator. Adjust the recoil keep the handling similar. I do use this gun regularly as a backup when I run a support MG and the ability to create space is awesome, but it is far too easy to get overwhelmed since you aren’t actually killing anything. Slugger: Agree, though I miss the demo force a lot too. Fix the balance with worse bullet drop and damage falloff to justify restoring the stagger. Breaker: With all the other buffs, the extra mag size won’t make it OP. I use this kind of like a Punisher that trades power and stagger for an “Oh Shit” full auto option. Breaker S&P: Just add ammo. This is a dedicated chaff clear machine and that pellet spread rapidly weakens it getting into mid range. Diligence: I used to main this before moving to the pre-buff DCS. I went to the DCS for the damage and challenge. With the DCS handing buffs and buffs to both guns, they are overlapping too much and the DCS is the generically better option. I would lean into the Dili’s better ergonomics to make it the more flexible option. Improve handling, recoil, and mag size (25 rounds, 30 recoil, Liberator-like handling). Check on the sound profile (I’m pretty sure it’s better than the DCS but it should be quite better). The idea here is the Dili can do DCS things with a bit more skill but the better handling and sound profile makes it better when you need to go into a base, silent or loud. Purifier: Not much to say here, other than it should be able to reliably 1-shot scout striders in a full charge. Killing scout striders quickly is the main reason I’ll take the Scorcher and if the Purifier can’t do that, I can’t justify taking it, regardless of splash. This is a little tricky, since it starts getting into railgun territory, but then again the railgun needs help too.
A lot of the older nerfs can probably just be reverted. They came from an era where everyone used the same guns because those were the only guns able to deal with the threats. Even in its older form, the slugger wouldn’t be the top DMR in the game anymore, the diligence CS eclipses it easily in that role. Which is not to say they should just revert it - there might be a better set of changes. But it’d be nice to see them revisit some guns like the Slugger, Railgun, etc. that were previously nerfed for maybe the wrong reasons.
I want them to revert the lib pen back to burst fire only, it was unique in that way
The diligence counter sniper is perfect as it is, if they’re gonna change it they should make it bolt action and take it to Medium 4 or higher because otherwise it’s pointless. Making the regular diligence the same penetration as the diligence counter sniper is fine imo but then there is no reason to use the counter because the counter already one shots everything important so if you take its spot upgrading the regular diligence the counter is largely irrelevant. Then you encroach on the Eruptor so then you really got problems
I think the spray and pray needs to have much more ammo per mag and it should shape the pellets to spread more horizontally and not as much vertically to make it kind of like the Contra spread weapon. It should almost be a wall of pellets.
This is a great post, I’d (and I imagine many others) would be extremely happy if these changes came through. The scythe especially is a bugbear for me, I want a cool fucking beam gun but everytime I use it I just think “I could do all this with the sickle in half the time”. It’s really got no reason to exist right now, some kind of “armour melt” or multi target penetration (or both lol) would make it well worth using.
I want the Breaker Spray & Pray to mean it's name: lower the damage, double the mag size, double the RPM, lower the recoil, saturate an area with lead. Probably not to that degree but you know, increase the mag size and RPM in general so it truly is spray and pray.
For the concussion liberator I would add a small increase to all received damage after taking a hit, effect stacks with multiple hits. Encourage team work.
Don't forget the sad thermite grenade.
Knight honestly just needs a buff to mag size. something like 75'd do Purifier, just boost the damage up by 50-100
How about we leave spray and pray stats alone and just add more ammo? It already does less dmg than incendiary. Just more shots is enough.
Arc thrower needs its misfiring fixed, the ability to hit flying enemies, the ability to hit enemies standing directly in front of you, longer range to have a non-zero chance of ever killing a hulk, and probably either a slight increase in its TTK vs chargers (like 6 headshots to 5) or for its shots to better reduce the total mob health pool vs just the limb health pool (so that you can kill a charger with just 6 shots rather than specifically 6 headshots). Currently when it doesn't misfire it's fairly good against bugs with excellent trash clear and some ability to kill chargers but is weak vs bots due to lacking range and vs both factions has a ton of QoL issues. Giving it back its range would let it be a reasonable weapon vs bots again and giving it either slightly more damage vs large or less dependence on hitting the same weakpoint would make it feel better against chargers without pushing it too far. It'd be probably pretty similar to pre-nerf arc thrower in terms of power, but given that other weapons/strategems have been buffed and additional threats that the arc thrower can't effectively deal with have been added being close to but not quite as good as old arc thrower likely wouldn't be overwhelming.
I actually kinda liked the purifier after the latest changes. My only gripe with it is the fucking hunters that get in your face and you can't do shit about them. Give it ability to choose bugholes and make the damage scale with the charge up like ARC launcher and it'll be a great weapon with knockback, crowd control, excellent ammo economy Yet to try it against bots.
Rail Rifle: Give it a God Damn Magnified scope: If I am going to shoot a slug the size of a rice at the enemy via electromagnetism at mach 8 (~3km/s), you know what that is? That's a perfect sniper/long range anti-vehicle weapon! I don't have to lead the shot, I don't have to take drop into account, that thing will have enormous stopping power for it's size because of that velocity! WHY THE *censored by Ministry of Censorship* DOES IT HAVE A RED DOT?! Also, make the projectile travel fast. And penetrate armor like crazy. Maybe force a backpack "Power source" fpr balance?
Nothing about being a railgun requires high velocity slugs. In fact, current handheld EM guns go the opposite route, with bigger, lower velocity slugs. As for the suggestion, the railgun has defined role for short-mid range anti-medium with good mobility. A backpack kills the gun, and going the sniper route puts it up against the AMR, which would outclass it. If you buffed the railgun there, you then risk it invalidating the AT options. IMO improve the ammo economy, remove safe mode, give it safe mode level charge and damage immediately, and add an additional charge level for higher durable damage so it *can* kill tough stuff with enough risk and ammo investment.
I agree witheverything EXCEPT THE DILIGENCE. The diligence has very good handling, that's basically all it has. For that, I would rather use the diligence against terminids than the counter-sniper. The buffs it could use: faster reload speed The diligence has great ammo economy and it's main strength is being average at both close, medium and long range. To enhance it's self defense capabilities, I would give it a reload speed buff. Better handling: the handling is already good, but what If it had MORE? I want to be able to snipe while standing, and this would allow me to do that. Attack speed increase: the diligence falls off against light and medium armored enemies. An attack speed buff would allow it to kill brood commanders, nursing spewers faster, while not breaking any damage tresholds wich make the counter-sniper strong (oneshotting devastators) I would accept getting all of these OR just simply more damage. More damage would oneshot hunters anywhere, kill devastators in one hit, shriekers in one shot this woukd turn the weapon into a beast with it's handling, ammo count and attack speed. This would turn this into the best weapon in the game. And believe me, aiming with this weapon is vers easy, I can take down three hives of shriekers with one and a half mags counting the misses, now imagine that you oneshot them.
Thats last paragraph is precisely why they shouldn't do this. Also it would make the diligence just plain better than CS
I think in general guns need to have character and not just be "another thing that does the same things slightly differently". For example Pummeler: it had this great ability to stun-lock enemies. It was fun because of that, despite having lower damage. Now it just has lower damage... Purifier. Alternative suggestion: make this gun charge 2-3 times faster. It would instantaneously feel better. I mean something similar to the Sickle: the wind-up is there but it doesn't feel like a hindrance too much. I would even agree to slight damage decrease if the charge-up is shorter. Benchmark: make it so it can stagger and then kill a berserker patrol. Eruptor. So what if the shrapnel could deal over 9000 damage? It still didn't allow you clear waves of enemies and the handling of that gun is probably worst in the game. It was risk/skill/reward gun. Bring back the shrapnel! Alternatively make it feel/handle better, so that it's strong punches with smaller AoE damage can be placed better. Scythe/Laser Cannon: make it so the beam could slice enemies like a lightsaber. That is what these weapons feel like they should be doing. I.e. when you move through a joint that can be cut, it will be cut off momentarily (and you don't need to hold the beam there). Arc Thrower: right now it just feels like a worse version of punisher. Sure, it has the potential to deal with heavily armored enemies, but it's not fun to stay in one place waiting until your arcs eventually deplete the health of whatever you are aiming at. I mean Blitzer does less damage, and yet I can achieve more with Blitzer than with the Arc Thrower. Proposition: make it discharge arcs over a period of time. I.e. you wind it up, and it acts like a Tesla coil, waiting arcs left and right. Shotguns with spread in general: make projectiles more visible, so we can gauge the spread and aim better. Currently, only Incendiary Breaker has this. Dagger. Its only feature is that you can explode mines without "wasting" ammo. Otherwise it's the worst pistol in the game. Make it handle much tighter, and make the laser increase intensity/damage as you are firing. This would make it awesome and rewarding.
Arc thrower has 2 easy fixes increase its range and its close range target detection
Yeah, that would be nice. Maybe what I am proposing could be a different weapon. I mean, imagine: you charge up, and then it emits arcs like a lightning machine gun.
Arc needs the range back. They already took away stagger for hulks
They also need to fix the misfiring issue for all arc weapons. Feels 'great' charging up for a full second then fizzle followed by charging for another second and fizzle. The misfiring bug really kills the arc weapons.
Why does nobody see that the KNIGHTs main problem isnt ammo or anything else. Its just the recoil.
It's a short range weapon and it excels at that. I like running it with the laser cannon against bots. Laser is your actual primary, knight drops berserkers fast when they get close.
Yes, and it would be good at short range if the inaccuracy wouldnt double the waste of ammo combined with the recoil.
That’s a great point I didn’t really consider
really not that bad, just needs some adjusting. crouch when firing more than a burst
+1 for the Lib-Pen drum mag buff.
Eruptor needs an AOE range buff Purifier needs more DMG Slugger needs its stagger back Knight needs way less recoil and more ammo in reserve
I've said it in my own posts, but I will leave it here also: Rifle rework: 1st person mode: consume double/triple ammo for tap-fire only, increased damage/AP shots. 3rd person, auto mode. (Like Ash from Overwatch) On top of that, add under-barrel attachments, (launcher for nades/EMS/stun/smoke), each gun with only one type of launcher. Sniper rework: Add silencer. So, it still serves value after the rifle rework. Shotguns: Like what OP said. SMGs: I don't know, maybe Akimbo? Would be cool as f.
| I just want to start off by saying this latest patch was pretty good in terms of balancing a lot of unused weapons. I am increasingly becoming a fan of AH just because they actively listen to the community. I just wanted to open a discussion on some weapons that seem to have been forgotten. They have been shown to do this ONE time. Stop giving them credit for being nice once after taking multiple dumps on their player base's doorstep.
And give the Eruptor back it's Shrapnel. It's still feel so much weaker and lacking in identity. Take the time to fix it properly without removing it's identity because that's easier than finding a way for the Shrapnel to not insta-kill Chargers and players.
The Scythe is meant to be used like a scalpel. If you’re aiming at center mass you’re wrong. Headshots always, unless it’s a bigger bug then slow it down with leg shots first before focusing on the head. Or just switch to the laser cannon.
Penatrator: nah, it needs more damage more than it needs more ammo. If you're going to leave the mag at 30, at least make it equal damage to a base Liberator. Concussive: I used this gun once and left the game to pick something else because of how bad it was. I don't think I have enough experience with it to make a stupendous suggestion by any means but, if they want to continue with their idea of suppression, give it a bit of AoE, give it a much larger magazine, more RoF, and better ergonomics to actually be able to act as a support to others. Knight: honestly, I like the knight. Not really sure why it gets shit on so much. Just fix the resupply issue and maybe lower the recoil a tad. Slugger: agree. Breaker: agree. Spray and pray: this gun already does less damage than it's effectively identical counterpart, why lower it further? I'd recommend removing the ridiculous round cone fire where half your pellets are guaranteed to hit fuck and all and change it to a flat cone so it's actually effective at clearing chaff like it's meant to. It probably wouldn't even need a damage boost if more of the pellets could hit. Diligence: slightly lower damage, slightly increase mag size, ad a fire mode that lets you double tap with a single trigger pull with little to no recoil between the two shots.
Just bring back the explosive trait for the lib concussive
Breaker Spray and Pray is not a bad gun. It's just the Incendiary gun outclasses all guns for dealing with chaff, it's as effective if not more so at times than an airburst rocket launcher. You just tag all the little guys with a pellet and they catch on fire dying before they hit get to you. I can get 30+ kills with one magazine vs bug breaches plus Incendiary is literally the best gun in the game vs shrieker swarms. So yeah Breaker Spray and Pray is fine, it deals with chaff well, it's just the Incendiary is too good easily a tier above other guns vs chaff. Spray and Pray is better vs Incendiary in ammo economy and killing lots of chaff quickly that's at point blank range though while suffering vs elites and not having the really strong fire dot effect.
Lib Pen: give it AP4. That's literally the one change that will make it a very viable alternative to the Adj. Lib Con: Increase its ROF to match the Pummeler (475). Its TTK is terrible and its extra effect is worse (knock back vs. stun). I doubt even with this 50% buff it can compete against the Pummeler because the latter has more ammo and is one-handed. Breaker S&P: keep the ammo capacity, double the number of pellets and double the spread to make it a true chaff clear specialist. Agree with reverting Breaker capacity and Slugger stagger nerf. Increase the Slugger's projectile drag to reduce its effective range. Purifier: give it an actual charge up curve. It already has a charge up mechanic that varies damage from 30% to 300%. But the charge up times are placeholders meaning it's always only charging to 100% at 1s. Solution: give it a 0.1/0.3/2.8 charge up curve. This means that it starts with 30% damage with a minimum charge time of 0.1s, every 0.3s you gain a charge level for 30% more damage, and at 2.8s you are at max level with 300% damage. Knight: reduce recoil to 10 and max RPM to 1100 (same as redeemer), increase damage to 60/6. Basically a primary version of the redeemer with more ammo. Diligence: I don't know what would make it viable without stepping on the toes of the DCS. The DCS is already in a good spot. What you are proposing should be reserved for a future bolt-action sniper rifle. The only thing I can think of is increasing its damage to 128 (same as pre-buff DCS) so it can one-shot devastators in the head. The same applies to the Verdict pistol.
The fact that the Verdict is not at least medium pen+ high recoil is outright blasphemous
To add on: Sickle needs its magazines reverted back to 6, dropping it to 3 was unnecessary. Scorcher could use a magazine capacity buff to 25 or 30, 15 seems too low and it runs out quick as a result. HMG should have a magazine capacity of 100, not 75. Its an HMG, why only 75 rounds? Agree with all of the other points, lots of weapons need love.
Hard disagree on these three. Sickle has great ammo efficiency simply by not going full ham, and if you do, you have the equivalent of 5 AR mags. Going back to 6 sinks eliminated what little ammo pressure it feels now. Scorcher is an incredible gun in so many ways, and the mag/ammo is the only real drawback. It doesn't need any sort of buff. HMG just got a pile of direct and indirect buffs and feels amazing right now. It just got a 50% damage boost, big durable damage boost on top of that, better handling with the new armors, and better recoil control with the boosted crouch/prone recoil.
The Liberators need better damage imo. 60 isn't cutting it. The Tendoriser and Adjudicator obsolete the other 4 Assault rifles.
The fundamental balance of weapons in this game is still way, way off, and the changes you are proposing do very little to change that. The reality is that the weapon with the lowest TTK will always come out on top as long as Medium enemies, like Berserkers and Brood Commanders, are fundamentally bullet sponges to weapons that are ineffective against them. The Dominator is so far and away the best weapon right now it's not close because it can 1-3 shot every enemy in the game that doesn't require Support Weapons to deal with efficiently, and without having large enough drawbacks to encourage swapping to a secondary or support weapon to deal with small units. Unless Arrowhead starts balancing the game around a 'hits to kill' metric instead of an arbitrary damage per shot system, Primary weapons will continue to be in a terrible balance state.