Pretty sure that defending the planet and then try to take Meissa is a better call because the community as a whole won't try to take Meissa at first. Better regroup to strike fast and hard.
Absolutely agree. X-45 is priority #1. In an ideal world, we could coordinate once it was secured to send just enough forces to win ongoing defense ops, with the remainder grinding down Meissa. Especially since the current regen on that planet is set to a paltry 1%... for now.
I hope these battlestations work like some of the rumors I have heard, allowing players to organize into groups like battalions or divisions and then offering division specific strategems.
But I'd be happy if it just allowed us to hang a big sign in space that said "Humans rule, bots drool". That's cool too.
The problem with all these gambits is you need to get enough players to take the planet in under 24 hours. That's around 50% of the entire playerbase, only 2/3 of which will play bots, so you require almost every single botdiver for it to work.
Yup.
During the last bot MO I was starting to feel salty because a constant 8-10k divers were jacking off on Gacrux while all the planets around Vandalon kept getting invaded over, and over, and over. Finally I was like "you know what. This is fine. At least it is keeping them interested in the game."
With Meissa, it isn't the 24 hour "gambit" I am thinking is important. We have to prioritize the defense ops on X-45. Too much to lose.
It is the 96 hour "we could have taken this planet 4 days ago and not had to fight off an invasion every 24 hours" that worries me. The fact that the regen on Meissa is currently set to stupidly low levels almost feels like we are being baited.
Oh is that what it was? I thought people just liked the name.
All kidding aside though, I hope they enhance other biomes the same way. Make the jungle more dense. Add freaky canyons to the desert planets. Etc.
Where did you hear those rumors? Cause that immediately made think about Planetside 2's platoon system which was tons of fun and a great way to in-game coordinate mass operations
Honestly I don't remember. I think it was one of the recent (within the last 2 weeks) youtube videos that covers helldivers game news and updates.
I just remember them saying something about battlestations and "clan" mechanics, but they may have been talking about separate items (I was working at the time and only passively listening. Sorry.)
Yeah plus AFAIK defend planets has a lot less planet HP than a liberation campaign so it should be faster just to defend. Also it's a 5 day MO, plenty of time to take Meissa too.
I'm hoping the SEAF in Aesir pass is more than flavour text. But I think it's literally just hold X-45. I think JOEL saw no one doing any non MO planets last bot defense so he's probably thinking the same is gonna happen again. And I hope it won't cause we really need to take advantage of an MO like this and try to capture those non MO planets when X-45 is safe
Yes and no, taking the defense is faster short term but a lot of times gambit would have been more productive long term as most planets where the attack came from are taken outside a 24h window where as we could in theory have 2 planets in 24h.
But we'd need everyone on the gambit and that's not gonna happen :/
Especially since it sounds like we'll fail the MO if X-45 falls. It's more tactically sound to make sure it doesn't fall before moving to prevent it being attacked again
And Meissa has 1 million HP vs X-45's 250k. Helldiver's Galactic Map has it being defended in around 4 hours with a +25% win rate.
Of course, we now have to deal with a Wezen defence, which almost certainly means we will have to defend Vega Bay as well, unless the blob bothers to defend Wezen.
*Edit - in the two minutes since looking at the map and making this post, the win rate dropped to 13 and then 11.7%, wild.
> And Meissa has 1 million HP vs X-45's 250k. Helldiver's Galactic Map has it being defended in around 4 hours with a +25% win rate.
How do you see all this information? Is it in-game somewhere?
Alas, no. Although we have managed to get AH to make supply lines between systems visible, none of this info is there in-game.
These are stats datamined by [https://hd2galaxy.com/](https://hd2galaxy.com/), but there is also the [Helldivers 2 Companion](https://helldiverscompanion.com/) and [Helldivers.io] (https://helldivers.io/).
We can also go defend wezen to prevent a flank and then go on meissa and get that as high % as we can before the next attack. Maybe gambit it to save X-45 and retake Ymir sector
Not really - that's what normal player would see. Defense of planet have 250000 lib points and liberation of planet 1000000 lib points so even if we look at 50% of it it will be 500000 lib points. AND if players are defending planet they are sprinting with enemy to the goal - enemy don't try to interfere your actions, but when you liberate a planet every hour enemy reduces your progress by set amount - for example: Meissa have -1% per hour and Gatria -3% per hour.
BTW defense of X-45 will take about 4 hours...
This is written to the gambit itchy players - at the moment we have 18.6 k helldivers on Meissa and we will liberate the planet from 2.7% in 1d 21h (-1% decay every hour)... so how are you planning to save the defense of other planet that have 24 hours duration?
But liberating Meissa is only one planet worth of HP to get two planets. Via your method it’s 1.5 planets of HP to get two planets. So OP’s method is better.
Yes, BUT taking planet from 0% with decay rates in 24 hours is much harder, then defending planet. If Meissa will have 50% - sure it will be no-brainer.
Hopefully all the bot players that have been screwing around on Gacrux the last few weeks feel the same. Best of both worlds. They get to kick ass in the new biome, and the MO gets some staunch defenders.
They do send waves of chainsaws / swords / fire hulks. Bots also often drop right on top of you. There are plenty of situations fighting bots where they can get close, it’s not all shooting at each other from a distance.
If they are dropping on top of you then you missed a flare being shot up and didn't reposition. Aka you fucked up
And if the mellee bits are getting close to you then you forgot to put a mortar sentry down which would have killed them when they were within 100m aka you fucked up
What a delusional take. I’m sure you always clear objectives from a mile away, and have spotted every single flare being prepped behind a wall, no matter what else you are dealing with. That sounds realistic.
Close up bot fights are equally as preventable as close up bug fights. Dealing with dropships and melee units is part of the game.
I didn’t mean stopping a flare being sent up, I meant moving away once one has been sent, and then throwing an air strike on the landing area for good measure. Objectives are pretty easy to clear without coming within 35m of a bot. 1 Throw a mortar down behind cover, 2 wait for it to kill all the non hulk/tank/factory strider bots on the objective, 3 kill the others with autocannon and/or eagles, 4 walk in and complete the objective while throwing down another mortar to keep the patrols away. It’s pretty easy really. As long as you’re running mortars that is…
I've been curious about how things work on the back end. I know one of the sites said they reworked the liberation calculation back in March, but the explanation was kind of vague.
The end of mission "Liberation points" awarded feel basically meaningless, like just a show.
Do you know any resources that explains in-depth how it is calculated?
(I am bored at work and trying to find something I can plug into excel that makes me look productive while still having fun.)
each planet has a unique decay rate, Meissa for example is at -1% per hour. That means to make progress the community needs to be making more progress than >1% per hour to actually liberate the planet. Rn there are only 700 people there so we’re getting a little under .2% per hour, meaning there is no point fighting there
I'd say pound the snot out of the X-45 defense op, and as soon as it is secured, hit Meissa with everything you have.
Long term, this is NOT going to be the only attack of this MO. I strongly suspect the defense ops are going to be almost constant, over and over, unless we take Meissa out of the equation.
We already have a new attack on Wezen, so yeah. This is almost certainly going to be another 6 days of the target planet yo-yoing in and out of DEFEND status.
I guess it also depends on the cooldown period between defense ops. Will we get a 6 hour break before a planet can be reattacked? 12? 24?
Or will the "enemy" GM go a different route, and try to split our forces by hitting multiple fronts all at once, spreading our forces through a bunch of defense ops?
I can almost guarantee we aren't gonna be allowed to keep that 1% regen rate on Meissa for the entire MO. From back of the napkin math I've been doing, we basically need 5,000 divers for every 1% of resistance on a planet, just to break even. After that, it is diminishing returns until it caps out around 7-8% per hour.
(this is all predicated on a total game-wide player base of 40-60k)
Edit reason: I mixed up my numbers. By a huge amount. Right now, 1000 players generate ~0.200 liberation, not ~0.500.
I would not be at all surprised for what happened in the Xzar sector during the last bot MO and even across the Jin Xi and Mirin sectors on the bug front in the bug MO before that to happen again.
We have specified planterary targets that are relevant to the MO: people will mass onto that planet because it's the one named in the MO and then declare Mission Accomplished and go back to doing whatever they want to. It on the bug front not taking Gacrux to block attacks on Pandion/Acamar.
Until it gets attacked and has a giant DEFEND target on the map and they will go back, because they want to succeed at the MO and get the medals. We saw this with Mantes, Ingmar and Mort - people went to the MO planet to defend it and ignored the source of the attack.
We should probably focus on defending the planet first, as the community as a whole wont really engage with these sorts of large scale tactics, and if we lose the defense, even if we come back later there is a zero percent chance most players will return, as they will think we already lost.
Just defend planet x, then we can focus on taking Meissa
Nah, most people don't give a shit about basic strategy. The majority of players will go defend X-45 then go to the next defense planet and forget about Meissa.
for whatever reason the jungle planets keep crashing me so i wont be able to take part on meissa. i cant believe that a 4090 is crashing on this game lmao
Not really. Like, just a better play to prioritize X-45 defense first, then any defense for the other Ymir sector planets, then when no attacks are happening we can attack Meissa
Update now that we are actually hitting this planet. Is it just me or are the bots fighting back a lot harder than the 1% regen would imply?
26k players knocked out a 250k defense campaign in 6 hours, at a rate of 20% liberation per hour. Now 20k players are pounding away at a 1M liberation campaign... and netting a whopping 0.59% liberation per hour.
That's something like 40 hours to capture the world. Ouch.
i believe it when i see it. The Dumb Dumbs just see the big "DEFEND" sign on a planet and pile onto it instantly. Though the bot front actually did see one sucessfull gambit previously. Thats one more than the bug players have.
Would be nice, unfortunately the game fails to teach players who dont use discord or reddit (the majority) about how gambits work. Because of that, the blob is very unlikely to commit to gambits
This seems like a MO designed around teaching the supply routes, since it's only one planet that should be held and it will probably be continously attacked through the major order.
Meissa is also a pretty planet so can't use it as an excuse that it's hellmire :D
Yes, of course, but we need the whole community involved. You would have to post this on Reddit, X, Discord, and even then it's a minority. Then, gather information about the players and send them a text message
Pretty sure that defending the planet and then try to take Meissa is a better call because the community as a whole won't try to take Meissa at first. Better regroup to strike fast and hard.
Absolutely agree. X-45 is priority #1. In an ideal world, we could coordinate once it was secured to send just enough forces to win ongoing defense ops, with the remainder grinding down Meissa. Especially since the current regen on that planet is set to a paltry 1%... for now. I hope these battlestations work like some of the rumors I have heard, allowing players to organize into groups like battalions or divisions and then offering division specific strategems. But I'd be happy if it just allowed us to hang a big sign in space that said "Humans rule, bots drool". That's cool too.
The problem with all these gambits is you need to get enough players to take the planet in under 24 hours. That's around 50% of the entire playerbase, only 2/3 of which will play bots, so you require almost every single botdiver for it to work.
Yup. During the last bot MO I was starting to feel salty because a constant 8-10k divers were jacking off on Gacrux while all the planets around Vandalon kept getting invaded over, and over, and over. Finally I was like "you know what. This is fine. At least it is keeping them interested in the game." With Meissa, it isn't the 24 hour "gambit" I am thinking is important. We have to prioritize the defense ops on X-45. Too much to lose. It is the 96 hour "we could have taken this planet 4 days ago and not had to fight off an invasion every 24 hours" that worries me. The fact that the regen on Meissa is currently set to stupidly low levels almost feels like we are being baited.
The difference with that is that Gacrux is a new map design and Vandalon is basically just copy and paste one of the same maps we've had all year.
Oh is that what it was? I thought people just liked the name. All kidding aside though, I hope they enhance other biomes the same way. Make the jungle more dense. Add freaky canyons to the desert planets. Etc.
I’m a buggy boi but I’ll lend my democratic hand to our bot bashing brothers!
Where did you hear those rumors? Cause that immediately made think about Planetside 2's platoon system which was tons of fun and a great way to in-game coordinate mass operations
Honestly I don't remember. I think it was one of the recent (within the last 2 weeks) youtube videos that covers helldivers game news and updates. I just remember them saying something about battlestations and "clan" mechanics, but they may have been talking about separate items (I was working at the time and only passively listening. Sorry.)
Yeah plus AFAIK defend planets has a lot less planet HP than a liberation campaign so it should be faster just to defend. Also it's a 5 day MO, plenty of time to take Meissa too.
5 days is a long time, especially since X-45 is going to hit 100% in 6 hours. I wonder what AH have up their sleeve.
I'm hoping the SEAF in Aesir pass is more than flavour text. But I think it's literally just hold X-45. I think JOEL saw no one doing any non MO planets last bot defense so he's probably thinking the same is gonna happen again. And I hope it won't cause we really need to take advantage of an MO like this and try to capture those non MO planets when X-45 is safe
I'm thinking the defense of Wezen is going to fail and we'll get flanked on X-45 while everyone is on Meissa. That's what I'm thinking.
Yes and no, taking the defense is faster short term but a lot of times gambit would have been more productive long term as most planets where the attack came from are taken outside a 24h window where as we could in theory have 2 planets in 24h. But we'd need everyone on the gambit and that's not gonna happen :/
Especially since it sounds like we'll fail the MO if X-45 falls. It's more tactically sound to make sure it doesn't fall before moving to prevent it being attacked again
And Meissa has 1 million HP vs X-45's 250k. Helldiver's Galactic Map has it being defended in around 4 hours with a +25% win rate. Of course, we now have to deal with a Wezen defence, which almost certainly means we will have to defend Vega Bay as well, unless the blob bothers to defend Wezen. *Edit - in the two minutes since looking at the map and making this post, the win rate dropped to 13 and then 11.7%, wild.
> And Meissa has 1 million HP vs X-45's 250k. Helldiver's Galactic Map has it being defended in around 4 hours with a +25% win rate. How do you see all this information? Is it in-game somewhere?
Alas, no. Although we have managed to get AH to make supply lines between systems visible, none of this info is there in-game. These are stats datamined by [https://hd2galaxy.com/](https://hd2galaxy.com/), but there is also the [Helldivers 2 Companion](https://helldiverscompanion.com/) and [Helldivers.io] (https://helldivers.io/).
We can also go defend wezen to prevent a flank and then go on meissa and get that as high % as we can before the next attack. Maybe gambit it to save X-45 and retake Ymir sector
You forgot no mercy
I was curious about the x planet since the beginning. So mysterious....
So do I
We're not going to take Meissa within 24 hours, its better to defend X-45 and then take Meissa.
You should defend X-45 and then liberate Meissa to prevent future attacks. Reminder - defense is always faster and easier then liberation from 0%.
When the defense fails, planet health is halved, so the liberation doesn't start from 50%
Not really - that's what normal player would see. Defense of planet have 250000 lib points and liberation of planet 1000000 lib points so even if we look at 50% of it it will be 500000 lib points. AND if players are defending planet they are sprinting with enemy to the goal - enemy don't try to interfere your actions, but when you liberate a planet every hour enemy reduces your progress by set amount - for example: Meissa have -1% per hour and Gatria -3% per hour. BTW defense of X-45 will take about 4 hours...
This is written to the gambit itchy players - at the moment we have 18.6 k helldivers on Meissa and we will liberate the planet from 2.7% in 1d 21h (-1% decay every hour)... so how are you planning to save the defense of other planet that have 24 hours duration?
But liberating Meissa is only one planet worth of HP to get two planets. Via your method it’s 1.5 planets of HP to get two planets. So OP’s method is better.
Yes, BUT taking planet from 0% with decay rates in 24 hours is much harder, then defending planet. If Meissa will have 50% - sure it will be no-brainer.
The defense rate is currently at +21.38 lol. Its projected to be finished in 1 hour (6 hours total). Concentrated defense was the correct choice.
OPs method is useless bc the crowd always follows MOs, so going anywhere else is a waste of time and resources
Why lead when you can follow?
the issue is you can’t lead enough players to actually make a difference, most players aren’t reddit nerds
No, I want to play the new planet on bots, next question.
Hopefully all the bot players that have been screwing around on Gacrux the last few weeks feel the same. Best of both worlds. They get to kick ass in the new biome, and the MO gets some staunch defenders.
Nope. Hit X-45 in this case, as it's the actual target objective. Also, new jungle planet + Bots. Hope it lasts until I get out of work today.
absolutely! it stops the attack AND it provides a buffer against any future attacks. it's just the smart thing to do
Currently 3420 players on X-45 and 926 on Meissa. Dammit!
# I LIKE DEFENSE MISSIONS OKAY But mortars are a crime
If you hate mortars, you didn't bring enough of them.
Not against bots they’re not. If you’re letting the bots get close enough that your own team’s mortars are hitting you then you already fucked up.
Drop a mortar near a terminal. If you're too far from the mortar or terminal and too close to bots, reassess your positioning.
They do send waves of chainsaws / swords / fire hulks. Bots also often drop right on top of you. There are plenty of situations fighting bots where they can get close, it’s not all shooting at each other from a distance.
If they are dropping on top of you then you missed a flare being shot up and didn't reposition. Aka you fucked up And if the mellee bits are getting close to you then you forgot to put a mortar sentry down which would have killed them when they were within 100m aka you fucked up
What a delusional take. I’m sure you always clear objectives from a mile away, and have spotted every single flare being prepped behind a wall, no matter what else you are dealing with. That sounds realistic. Close up bot fights are equally as preventable as close up bug fights. Dealing with dropships and melee units is part of the game.
I didn’t mean stopping a flare being sent up, I meant moving away once one has been sent, and then throwing an air strike on the landing area for good measure. Objectives are pretty easy to clear without coming within 35m of a bot. 1 Throw a mortar down behind cover, 2 wait for it to kill all the non hulk/tank/factory strider bots on the objective, 3 kill the others with autocannon and/or eagles, 4 walk in and complete the objective while throwing down another mortar to keep the patrols away. It’s pretty easy really. As long as you’re running mortars that is…
Just checked now, and 12k on X-45 with less than 1k at Meissa.
no, following the crowd is the smart thing to do because of the way decay rates work, and the crowd always goes to the MO
I've been curious about how things work on the back end. I know one of the sites said they reworked the liberation calculation back in March, but the explanation was kind of vague. The end of mission "Liberation points" awarded feel basically meaningless, like just a show. Do you know any resources that explains in-depth how it is calculated? (I am bored at work and trying to find something I can plug into excel that makes me look productive while still having fun.)
each planet has a unique decay rate, Meissa for example is at -1% per hour. That means to make progress the community needs to be making more progress than >1% per hour to actually liberate the planet. Rn there are only 700 people there so we’re getting a little under .2% per hour, meaning there is no point fighting there
100%. Tonight I dive on Meissa. See you there Helldivers.
I didnt know it was available when I jumped on! Will swap over!
X-45 first, then meissa. Basically guarantee the defense, then make room
Nah, I love defence mission, I'll be doing them. Well, I probably will complete several missions on meissa too, but not too much
I'd say pound the snot out of the X-45 defense op, and as soon as it is secured, hit Meissa with everything you have. Long term, this is NOT going to be the only attack of this MO. I strongly suspect the defense ops are going to be almost constant, over and over, unless we take Meissa out of the equation.
We already have a new attack on Wezen, so yeah. This is almost certainly going to be another 6 days of the target planet yo-yoing in and out of DEFEND status.
I guess it also depends on the cooldown period between defense ops. Will we get a 6 hour break before a planet can be reattacked? 12? 24? Or will the "enemy" GM go a different route, and try to split our forces by hitting multiple fronts all at once, spreading our forces through a bunch of defense ops? I can almost guarantee we aren't gonna be allowed to keep that 1% regen rate on Meissa for the entire MO. From back of the napkin math I've been doing, we basically need 5,000 divers for every 1% of resistance on a planet, just to break even. After that, it is diminishing returns until it caps out around 7-8% per hour. (this is all predicated on a total game-wide player base of 40-60k) Edit reason: I mixed up my numbers. By a huge amount. Right now, 1000 players generate ~0.200 liberation, not ~0.500.
I would not be at all surprised for what happened in the Xzar sector during the last bot MO and even across the Jin Xi and Mirin sectors on the bug front in the bug MO before that to happen again. We have specified planterary targets that are relevant to the MO: people will mass onto that planet because it's the one named in the MO and then declare Mission Accomplished and go back to doing whatever they want to. It on the bug front not taking Gacrux to block attacks on Pandion/Acamar. Until it gets attacked and has a giant DEFEND target on the map and they will go back, because they want to succeed at the MO and get the medals. We saw this with Mantes, Ingmar and Mort - people went to the MO planet to defend it and ignored the source of the attack.
No Dive x-45 since thats where the blob is No stupid gambits
I don't think we have time.
24 hour timer says otherwise IMO. Defend then move
What I was thinking, but the defence on X-45 should be complete in a few hours so I think it's better to attack Miessa after that.
We should probably focus on defending the planet first, as the community as a whole wont really engage with these sorts of large scale tactics, and if we lose the defense, even if we come back later there is a zero percent chance most players will return, as they will think we already lost. Just defend planet x, then we can focus on taking Meissa
Nah, most people don't give a shit about basic strategy. The majority of players will go defend X-45 then go to the next defense planet and forget about Meissa.
It will be defended in 1 hour (6 hours total). Meissa would have taken a day.
Defend X45 first then liberate meissa
But jungle biome….
for whatever reason the jungle planets keep crashing me so i wont be able to take part on meissa. i cant believe that a 4090 is crashing on this game lmao
Depends on how it looks, if it's a nice place to Democracy i will drop there..
Not really. Like, just a better play to prioritize X-45 defense first, then any defense for the other Ymir sector planets, then when no attacks are happening we can attack Meissa
I just got kicked from the mission cause we liberated X-45 so fast XD
hello. x 45 has just been liberated as of about 10 mins ago. we can all move to meisa or whatever and wezen
Wezen. That is all.
Update now that we are actually hitting this planet. Is it just me or are the bots fighting back a lot harder than the 1% regen would imply? 26k players knocked out a 250k defense campaign in 6 hours, at a rate of 20% liberation per hour. Now 20k players are pounding away at a 1M liberation campaign... and netting a whopping 0.59% liberation per hour. That's something like 40 hours to capture the world. Ouch.
we should rather defend the planet under attack on the south part of this sector then attack Meissa to secure at 100% this sector
No, meissa is currently the only way I can find my friends cos of the broken social system :,)
Nothing you do matters.
i believe it when i see it. The Dumb Dumbs just see the big "DEFEND" sign on a planet and pile onto it instantly. Though the bot front actually did see one sucessfull gambit previously. Thats one more than the bug players have.
the planet the attack comes from should have a similar "ATTACK" sign on it
COUNTERATTACK, that might be too long though. Perhaps GAMBIT as others suggested, but then a lot of people won't know what gambit means.
Would be nice, unfortunately the game fails to teach players who dont use discord or reddit (the majority) about how gambits work. Because of that, the blob is very unlikely to commit to gambits
If you want to gamble play a slot machine When will You guys learn that these gambits wont work?
They dont work because people either dont know how they could work or dont give a damn
Exactly people dont know and dont care about it because for 80% of the community the botfront feels more like a chore rather than an option to fight
Im just saying- if the game shows how Gambit work, players may be more inclined to do them (on both fronts)
Still easier to just defend the planet lower hp and all that
Not always. Also sometimes you can get 3 for the price of 1
Bots are also trying to cut us of by attacking Wezen.
Yes, but not a chance. I have no shame in admitting I plan to play the new biome with bots.
This seems like a MO designed around teaching the supply routes, since it's only one planet that should be held and it will probably be continously attacked through the major order. Meissa is also a pretty planet so can't use it as an excuse that it's hellmire :D
Yes, of course, but we need the whole community involved. You would have to post this on Reddit, X, Discord, and even then it's a minority. Then, gather information about the players and send them a text message
Maybe
I'll rather die than play automaton jungle planets tbh
Right
Do whatever you want. None of the orders matter anymore.