I really hate this iteration of the meme because the obvious prequel is the Roman Republic, not the Macedonian Empire that has nothing to do with Rome.
Technically the Republic and the Empire were the same entity. We call it an Empire after Augustus's rein started, but Romans never did, they continued to refer to them selves as the republic (SPQR) well into the 5th and 6th centuries.
Cant cite source but I remember reading somewhere that even late byzantines still considered themselves to have republic! Such strong tradition it was.
An empire is simply a dominant central power ruling over subordinate peripheries. That describes Rome from almost as soon as it started expanding. When Rome fought Carthage it was already and empire. If you're asking when the Romans actually started admitting they were a monarchy? That depends on what you mean, but the Roman/Byzantine empire? Officially never, they were still technically cosplaying as a republic until 1453. Unofficially, it's usually counted from after the crisis of the third century, getting off to a start with Aurelian and then really getting going with Diocletian's reign. On the other hand the Carolingians and the Holy Roman Empire and the Ottomans and the Russians knew they were monarchies from the start.
This is kind of a weird topic, because we would have to define what constitutes an empire, I would argue the mid to late roman republic was already an empire.
I've read a speech from Cícero where he refers to Rome as an Empire, and he was a staunch republican.
Ottoman empire came nowhere close to the original roman empire. It was a good villain to the ageing empire tho. It's basically the horror sequel in which the villain wears the victims face as a mask.
I believe the bottom left is the Macedonian Empire, but I'm having trouble recognizing the one on the bottom right. It's definitely one of the Iranian empires, but I just can't tell which one.
I think it's the Parthian Empire. The Sassanian was a bit bigger most of the time and of course had some eastern Mediterranean territories for a bit there.
Ottoman Empire was a very good thing, lol. For 500 years, it kept order over the middle east.
After its fall, the west carved up the territories as colonies, then abandoned them, and now we deal with dozens of radical terrorist organizations.
Is it fair to say that was the Ottomans and not the secular proto-government? I don’t know where the line is drawn with Ottoman control vs. the Young Turks
Star Wars vs Rome Comparison
Knights of the Old Republic = Rome founding myths. Is this canon?
Phantom Menace = Roman Kingdom. Nobody looks too favorably on it.
Attack of the Clones = Conquest of Italy. More favorable than previous installment but still meh
Clone Wars (TV Show) = Punic Wars. Peak of Republic/Star-Wars-Prequels
Revenge of the Sith = Triumverates. Literally about fall of the republic and is nostalgized.
A New Hope = Augustus. Where Roman Empire and Star Wars got started
Empire Strikes Back = 5 Good Emperors. The Peak
Return of the Jedi = Tetra-archy and Constantine. End of the Golden Age but has some flaws
Mandalorian = Justinian Dynasty. Good start to Sequels
Resistance = Dark ages. Bad times
Force Awakens = Basil I. Good start, let’s see where this goes
Last Jedi = Kommenian Restoration. Still good but flaws are happening.
Rise of Skywalker = 1204 to the end. The bad ending
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Did you just call the actual Roman Empire a bad spin off?
Of the Roman Empire? The Roman Empire is a bad spin off of the Roman empire?
We lost her in 1453, not whenevere uneconomical gaullish or Island provinces were abdandoned
Ottoman empire has no leverage on the title imo, the byzantin empire is objectively the Roman empire and the HRE has the recognition of the Pope and rome. But why does ottoman claim to be roman? I get it, its a cool empire, but so is the Ottoman Empire, they cool enough without the title, idk it just makes them look desperate
I dont care whether the ottoman empire was roman or not but I can give you the reason
Basically after 1453, the Ottomans practiced roman customs and made its capital constantinople.
Also why would you need recognition from the pope?
There is a difference between being a citizen in a house and being the Pope in the Vatican
And I dont think the Pope has the definitive say in who the Roman empire is, just more of a say than other people beside the Roman empire themself
in that period of the middle ages, kings asked for recognition from the pope to be considered legitimate (even if another king did this much earlier), if someone proclaimed himself as Roman emperor should we take him seriously?
Why do you consider this? well, the Germanic emperors used the Roman title as an embellishment, the Ottomans could have done the same thing as well. So what makes one thing more legitimate than another?
but the pope is not Roman, Charlemagne's coronation took place ~300 years after the Roman fall and without any emperor deciding who would be the successor
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Carolingian Empire : the promising reboot that got stuck in development hell.
and was scrapped entirely
After cast switches, they tried to continue withe the main and two spin-offs, that eneded competing for prime.
The fanfiction with an obvious author self insert would be a good one for the US, considering how the founding fathers were all massive Rome fanboys.
I propose the title of “The Other Weird Fanfic That Is Much Better Written, So The Weird Fanfic is Having an Even Weirder Feud With Them Over It”
I'm sure Augustus and Diocletian are proud, considering the US owns the world
The italian one was really just milking the concept one last time.
I really hate this iteration of the meme because the obvious prequel is the Roman Republic, not the Macedonian Empire that has nothing to do with Rome.
Technically the Republic and the Empire were the same entity. We call it an Empire after Augustus's rein started, but Romans never did, they continued to refer to them selves as the republic (SPQR) well into the 5th and 6th centuries.
Something I've never been able to find but when (or if) did the Romans stop seeing themselves as a republic and start seeing themselves as an empire?
Cant cite source but I remember reading somewhere that even late byzantines still considered themselves to have republic! Such strong tradition it was.
An empire is simply a dominant central power ruling over subordinate peripheries. That describes Rome from almost as soon as it started expanding. When Rome fought Carthage it was already and empire. If you're asking when the Romans actually started admitting they were a monarchy? That depends on what you mean, but the Roman/Byzantine empire? Officially never, they were still technically cosplaying as a republic until 1453. Unofficially, it's usually counted from after the crisis of the third century, getting off to a start with Aurelian and then really getting going with Diocletian's reign. On the other hand the Carolingians and the Holy Roman Empire and the Ottomans and the Russians knew they were monarchies from the start.
This is kind of a weird topic, because we would have to define what constitutes an empire, I would argue the mid to late roman republic was already an empire. I've read a speech from Cícero where he refers to Rome as an Empire, and he was a staunch republican.
This is great
Mare nostrum....
The persian one kinda feels true to me as a Persian, although enemies, we and Romans/Italians have quite Similar Histoies in my opinion!
I was gonna say the same. I think that one is the most original our of all in the meme.
Both Macedonia and Arabia pulled a funny one on Persia.
Sadly yes!
The Ottoman Empire was a spin-off of the villain which I think could rival the originals quality
Ottoman empire came nowhere close to the original roman empire. It was a good villain to the ageing empire tho. It's basically the horror sequel in which the villain wears the victims face as a mask.
Came nowhere close my ass. Ottomans were the closest to the roman empire out of anyone.
Fun Fact: Ottomans were larger than the Roman Empire
I believe the bottom left is the Macedonian Empire, but I'm having trouble recognizing the one on the bottom right. It's definitely one of the Iranian empires, but I just can't tell which one.
I think it's the Parthian Empire. The Sassanian was a bit bigger most of the time and of course had some eastern Mediterranean territories for a bit there.
I think you're right. It does seem like the best fit. Hey, OP? Is that the Parthian Empire?
I think you’re right with bottom left. The Romans had a lot of respect for Alexander the Great.
Ottoman Empire was a very good thing, lol. For 500 years, it kept order over the middle east. After its fall, the west carved up the territories as colonies, then abandoned them, and now we deal with dozens of radical terrorist organizations.
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Not going into this discussion. Just educate yourself on genocides, as you show immense ignorance just posting this comment.
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Is it fair to say that was the Ottomans and not the secular proto-government? I don’t know where the line is drawn with Ottoman control vs. the Young Turks
Said that to israel
If the choices are either oppression or terrorism its kind of hard to just blame everything on foreign decision making.
Ottomans were not the “Bad Spinoff” imo
Yeah, more like horror spinoff. Story centers around villain that killed the original sequel protagonist.
they are the megamind of the roman empire.
Fascist Italy fits perfectly!!!
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Wow what the fuck
The sequel that nobody wanted is so on-point, it's not even funny. (It's really funny.)
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"aNd MaDe TrAiNs RuN oN tImE!"
Why is the Russian Empire the weird fan fiction?
maybe, it has to do with Mosco being a holy city? or them wanting really bad to get Constantine? or maybe both.
Short lived prequel under Alexander, but the Greek world persisted in those areas for at least 300 years.
Idk if ottomans were a bad spinoff They’d be like “the joker” to the dark knight
Honestly, I like the HRE more then the Roman Empire
Weird is spelled wrong.
What would be the spanish empire? xd
A reboot with new actors and with a new showrunner. I'd probably be a miniseries because it was shorter than the original.
The Sequel had a lower budget but was way cooler.
The Ottoman Empire was an excellent villain arc. Top tier bad guy.
the same as the sequel plot, but from the villain that destroyed them, genius story telling.
Star Wars vs Rome Comparison Knights of the Old Republic = Rome founding myths. Is this canon? Phantom Menace = Roman Kingdom. Nobody looks too favorably on it. Attack of the Clones = Conquest of Italy. More favorable than previous installment but still meh Clone Wars (TV Show) = Punic Wars. Peak of Republic/Star-Wars-Prequels Revenge of the Sith = Triumverates. Literally about fall of the republic and is nostalgized. A New Hope = Augustus. Where Roman Empire and Star Wars got started Empire Strikes Back = 5 Good Emperors. The Peak Return of the Jedi = Tetra-archy and Constantine. End of the Golden Age but has some flaws Mandalorian = Justinian Dynasty. Good start to Sequels Resistance = Dark ages. Bad times Force Awakens = Basil I. Good start, let’s see where this goes Last Jedi = Kommenian Restoration. Still good but flaws are happening. Rise of Skywalker = 1204 to the end. The bad ending
I like this meme, but I would have loved it with a lower resolution.
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love this bot
Ottomans is the spinoff about the villain who carried the show after the show lost its point long seasons ago
Why doesn't Mussolini have Croatia?
those are pre WW2 borders I think, are they inaccurate? they use that ''exact'' map in our school book.
Why go for pre ww2 and not greatest extent?
the map was in a section talking about axis pre WW2 expansion.
OP could have taken a map from another place
yeah that would make sense.
Then there was the North Sea Empire…could have changed the world, but quietly(ish) dissolved into nothing
They all be rome, or try to at least
It’s been awhile since I’ve seen this reposted…
Carthage, the original series that was scrapped to make way for the much more liked show
Did you just call the actual Roman Empire a bad spin off? Of the Roman Empire? The Roman Empire is a bad spin off of the Roman empire? We lost her in 1453, not whenevere uneconomical gaullish or Island provinces were abdandoned
Roman Empire but gay.
It's ottomans
"The one that ruined the original" Can we grow the fuck up
I agree tbh. The Carolingian and later HRE has such an extremely interesting and underappreciated history.
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Nah I just mean the language of "I didnt like the most recent _____ Therefore the series sux" Fuck the HRE and Fuck Rome.
Ottoman should be netflix adaptation lol
Why'd you put the only good one as "The bad spinoff"?
Ottoman empire has no leverage on the title imo, the byzantin empire is objectively the Roman empire and the HRE has the recognition of the Pope and rome. But why does ottoman claim to be roman? I get it, its a cool empire, but so is the Ottoman Empire, they cool enough without the title, idk it just makes them look desperate
I dont care whether the ottoman empire was roman or not but I can give you the reason Basically after 1453, the Ottomans practiced roman customs and made its capital constantinople. Also why would you need recognition from the pope?
>Also why would you need recognition from the pope? Not necessarily but because the Vatican is in Rome and was made by the romans
Since when does being in a city made by others make you the owner or the owner?
There is a difference between being a citizen in a house and being the Pope in the Vatican And I dont think the Pope has the definitive say in who the Roman empire is, just more of a say than other people beside the Roman empire themself
in that period of the middle ages, kings asked for recognition from the pope to be considered legitimate (even if another king did this much earlier), if someone proclaimed himself as Roman emperor should we take him seriously?
No lmao, (I dont think the HRE is THE Roman empire btw, just that is more legit than Ottoman)
Why do you consider this? well, the Germanic emperors used the Roman title as an embellishment, the Ottomans could have done the same thing as well. So what makes one thing more legitimate than another?
Like I said, the Pope, it barely makes a difference tho and neither should be considered the Roman empire
but the pope is not Roman, Charlemagne's coronation took place ~300 years after the Roman fall and without any emperor deciding who would be the successor
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We aint a bad spinoff, this is an insult to glorious Türkiye!!