I’ve never gotten thorns until after I had good movement.
Spore shroom was something I got early on
So I guess spore shroom cause I actually used it albeit lightly and cause I had nothing else
Sppore shrooms + Denfeder Crest = decent starting build for Trial of fools (can build a lot of better damage around it, and have an easier time with the acid-holes
I absolutely love this combo. It’s funny and it always gets me out of pickles. I’d say it’s especially good for your average player and main story content.
10 play throughs in, finally doing Godhome, I probably wouldn’t use both. But tbh- i think I had spores on last I checked.
I add to this Baldur Shell and Thorns of agony to achieve one of the vest combination of charms 😊 (defender crest adding to spore shrooms reduce your visibility so if you're not used to it, it can be dangerous 😆)
FR!
I’ve actually recently gained my 5th notch charm slot and equipped the Thorns of Agony, and it’s *saved my life* against bigger enemies more times than I’d like to admit, lol~!
Yeah, it was super helpful early game when I didn't have many charms or experience. At 1 notch, it can deliver that final blow to an enemy so you can retreat and lick your wounds. I don't use it much now, but it was an early favorite on my first playthrough by far.
Absolutely. YoU SHoUlD UsE qUIcK SlaSh! ThOrNS iS a cRuTcH!
Thanks Jan, noted. I'll be sure to go to Kingdom's Edge instead of Greenpath next time I get vengeful soul.
And soul, and the opportunity to reposition yourself in order to dodge.
Thorns is worse than useless, it is one of only a few charms that hurt you more to use than not use, like glowing womb.
Because thorns takes up your i-frames making you more vulnerable and doing less damage then simply smacking the enemy with your nail. You could also save the notch to use a better charm or overcharm
I never said shell was useless, just that there are better options. Sisters of battle seems like one of the worst fights for it as it, in particular, is a dance.
Aaah but for me it was very effective to use it (shell), it helps me to beat them on radiance mode 🤣, And I don't think that there is a better charm to replace it regarding the way i use it.
Spores, it pairs great with defenders crest and if you use it with shape of un then your little guy turns into a slug thing with mushrooms on its back :)
I really don't understand the spores+defenders crest combo. By the time you even get defenders crest I feel like you should have waaaay better ways to deal damage then the little chips spore shroom does. Let alone better ways to use your soul.
(I do love all the slug combo's tho)
Spore Shroom, honestly. Thorns of Agony just feels weird to use. Not being able to move immediately after being hit just feels awkward.
Even if it's low, Shroom at least has a tick speed of damage rather than just equaling a single hit of your nail. Sometimes hitting twice. For some reason.
In my first gameplay ( I had skill issues) I died to Marmu but my thorns of agony damaged it at the same time and when I got back there Marmu was defeated
that's fair you can, but at that point you're using a charm notch and soul to get less dmg than just using a spell while being forced to be closer than you would a spell. seems like a lot of wasted potential.
None. I used thorns on my first playthrough, but I quickly recognized it was useless in most cases, so I took it off. I equiped Shroom when I got it, and never used it at all.
It's less than useless lol. If you hit an enemy during your i-frames, you'll do more damage than Thorns. It wouldn't be worth using even at 0 notches because it actively lowers your DPS.
Spore Shroom at least has some niche uses. Particularly against Broken Vessel, it's helpful for popping the balloons.
If i had to choose I'd pick spore shroom. I don't like thorns at all, when you get hit and they activate you can't do shit until it's done, thorns got me hit multiple times in a row because i couldn't move away from the enemy
Th*rns. I know some players hate it because reasons but for new players and the early game, when you struggle to get a hit in yet faceplant into enemies often, it’s a good help.
A begginer would probbably spam the controls, either way thorns is obtained in greepath post dash so its far enough for people to know the controls (imo), it is a good argument tho.
Honestly i really like thorns of agony and I feel like it’s underrated, while it’s not good in the long run it makes me feel so good for an enemy to die as soon as it hits mw
I feel like spore shroom is best when you can combine it with other stuff, and thorns just works (but has more innate downsides as have already been mentioned).
That said I prefer to do the cheeky spore shroom combos when I’m bored :)
Have you ever understood that *we’re not perfect?*
THATS why the more niece items, will ALWAYS have purpose to people who understand life’s struggles, whereas the *TOP* tier items…yeah, they have purpose but they’re *always* susceptible to getting nerfed.
Thorns of agony is detrimental. It briefly locks you into place when taking damage, and does nothing if the enemy isn’t nearby. Instead you could just use your i-frames to slash back at the enemy if it’s nearby, which is basically the same effect. Or if the enemy is far then you could use the i-frames for moving into a better position
I wouldnt use thorns if it was free, it uses all your iframes to deal your nail damage once, if you dont have it equipped you can do 1 nail swing and reposition. The charm just limits your nail damage output
I think that it depend on your tactics and your abilities. There is no right or bad charms. There is better charms for some situation and good charms regarding your play style.
Dream shield helps me finish the coliseum last stage, hiveblood helped me on every pantheon, the blue dude blessing can be usefull (for mes) against Nightmare Grimm, Pure Vessel and every other boss that are too rapid to let me charge for another life. As I said, there is no bad charms, there is charms that fit you the most because of your play style and your strategy.
The only situation i see thorns gettong value if you are getting swarmed by enemies but at that point you can nailswing once a few enemies that are gathered to get soul and descending dark and you just dealt double the damage using infinitely less charm notches (0)
Spore is better as thorns makes you weaker in most situations. Unless you are surrounded by weak enemies you are better off using the i-frames to swing your nail or reposition.
Arguably the biggest mid-off of them all. I’d have to say Spore Shroom is better but using builds that revolve around taking damage (thorns) or builds that incentivize down time instead of attacking (Spore Shroom) seem inferior to me. Given that nail and spell builds are so strong it seems silly to go for any other option
spore shroom can be helpful for coliseum of fools if you don’t have dream weilder ( dream weilder can get u max soul if you have a sheild enemy alone as they are too slow to actually do anything about the knockback you can also get soul from the garpedes ( trial 3 ) which helps alot as mainly the sheilded fools tho as dream weilder basically makes them the equivalent of hot springs during your bouts just make sure you get them alone tho otherwise it might not work as well
You can cheese crystal guardian with dream nail and spore shroom. If that makes it good? Idk, but thorns takes away all iframes unless you use stalwart shell, but 3 notches to a “getting hit” build? Idk not that great
I've never seen spore shroom as usefull. In my experience, the only enemies that stand still long enough to damage with spore shroom are at the same time the easiest enemies to just hit with your nail. This gets even worse because of the fact that you need to stand still to focus to even get the effect.
Thorns was a constant charm in my early runs because it easily deals with enemies that run into you, aka, the exact enemies that are faster so harder to hit. The damage also scales with nail damage, making it even stronger when you get stronger. Yes, you don't get soul for the hit, which kinda hurts after just having taken some damage, but preventing you from taking more damage from the same enemies by just killing it is a pretty decent trade-off. On harder enemies it's kinda useless so I never use it anymore, but so is spore shroom which isn't really usefull on any enemies in my opinion.
I’ll get hate for this, but I was super stuck on Troupe Grimm, and finally got past him with hive blood and thorns. I couldn’t get hits on him, but I could just barely survive lol
I use both so I'd say thorns of agony, but I also use defenders crest and whatever that Charm is that makes you crawl on the ground when healing, so idk if you wanna trust me
I think Thorns is more broadly usable and I've had it equipped more often, but mushroom can be very useful in certain fights like in colosseum of fools
Well it depends because playing perfectly, these are both terrible, but I know that your newish and maybe just playing casually, but thorns is actually just a hindrance, because it doesn’t increase your iframes. It might help if your overwhelmed and disoriented, but it’ll make you play worse and cost you a notch. You are genuinely better off hitting the enemy with your nail during the invincibility. You’ll notice when you play more, but being able to move after getting hit is like crucial to harder fights in the game. Generally though there are better charms available that aren’t either of these. Spores is cool but the damage just isn’t as much as you’d expect. I’d advise fragil heart or grubsong if your trying to survive for longer, or if your looking for damage, maybe explore kingdoms edge, or beat the mantis lords, both will give you one of the best charms in the game
Steady body feels like a clutch that screws with a basic habit (nail hits knocking you back) you’re supposed to develop tho. Kinda like the lock’n’load’s grenade speed bonus.
Spore shroom has real utility even if it's considered kinda on the niche side. Thorns of Agony baits players into kneecapping their own effectiveness.
Nah thorns is good early game, when your progress is more about exploring through unknown areas than fighting bosses.
True, but by your first dreamer, you should bench it (pun intended)
I’ve never gotten thorns until after I had good movement. Spore shroom was something I got early on So I guess spore shroom cause I actually used it albeit lightly and cause I had nothing else
Sppore shrooms + Denfeder Crest = decent starting build for Trial of fools (can build a lot of better damage around it, and have an easier time with the acid-holes
I absolutely love this combo. It’s funny and it always gets me out of pickles. I’d say it’s especially good for your average player and main story content. 10 play throughs in, finally doing Godhome, I probably wouldn’t use both. But tbh- i think I had spores on last I checked.
I add to this Baldur Shell and Thorns of agony to achieve one of the vest combination of charms 😊 (defender crest adding to spore shrooms reduce your visibility so if you're not used to it, it can be dangerous 😆)
add dream weilder = infinite soul of you get a sheilded fool alone
add dream weilder to that soooooo much value
Spore Shroom, but both are underrated by community
FR! I’ve actually recently gained my 5th notch charm slot and equipped the Thorns of Agony, and it’s *saved my life* against bigger enemies more times than I’d like to admit, lol~!
Yeah, it was super helpful early game when I didn't have many charms or experience. At 1 notch, it can deliver that final blow to an enemy so you can retreat and lick your wounds. I don't use it much now, but it was an early favorite on my first playthrough by far.
Agreed, the thorns discourse kinda leaves out the nuance of where you are in the game when you get certain charms.
Absolutely. YoU SHoUlD UsE qUIcK SlaSh! ThOrNS iS a cRuTcH! Thanks Jan, noted. I'll be sure to go to Kingdom's Edge instead of Greenpath next time I get vengeful soul.
Thorns isn't underrated. It's not worth wearing even if it's free. If you use the i-frames to hit the enemy normally you'll get more damage.
And soul, and the opportunity to reposition yourself in order to dodge. Thorns is worse than useless, it is one of only a few charms that hurt you more to use than not use, like glowing womb.
Or deep focus.
Deep focus has a use, and if combined with quick focus it is pretty good (at the cost of 7 notches though.)
Without quick focus it basically makes healing impossible. for 7 notches you can use many better things like heart with Quick focus and shape of unn.
They only cost one charm slot why would you not use them
Because thorns takes up your i-frames making you more vulnerable and doing less damage then simply smacking the enemy with your nail. You could also save the notch to use a better charm or overcharm
It depend on the combination I think, I use the thorns with baldur shell, so I don't get any damage while using it.
Shell isn't that great either. I mean, it is better than thorns, but still. Couldn't you just use the i-frames of shell to do more damage?
I just posted my fight with Sisters of battle while using the shield, you can see how it can be use on a tactic. 😉
I never said shell was useless, just that there are better options. Sisters of battle seems like one of the worst fights for it as it, in particular, is a dance.
Aaah but for me it was very effective to use it (shell), it helps me to beat them on radiance mode 🤣, And I don't think that there is a better charm to replace it regarding the way i use it.
Replace it with compass and the fight will practically beat itself
Compass don't gives I-frame after the hit, so it's useless regarding my strategy. Did you check the fight ?!
Baldur Shell has been my saviour for some bosses, but I think once you reach a certain maturity of play style you don't need it anymore
Spores, it pairs great with defenders crest and if you use it with shape of un then your little guy turns into a slug thing with mushrooms on its back :)
I really don't understand the spores+defenders crest combo. By the time you even get defenders crest I feel like you should have waaaay better ways to deal damage then the little chips spore shroom does. Let alone better ways to use your soul. (I do love all the slug combo's tho)
Maybe spore shroom?
That makes sense. It did do *wonders* for me during the broken vessel fight, before my nail was THAT strong.
I just used defender’s crest lol
Oh yeah. Sporeshroom + Defender’s Crest is autoinclude for the Lost Kin fight.
Spore Shroom, honestly. Thorns of Agony just feels weird to use. Not being able to move immediately after being hit just feels awkward. Even if it's low, Shroom at least has a tick speed of damage rather than just equaling a single hit of your nail. Sometimes hitting twice. For some reason.
Spore because its more interesting
In my first gameplay ( I had skill issues) I died to Marmu but my thorns of agony damaged it at the same time and when I got back there Marmu was defeated
Spore shroom for sure, typically i need to heal anyway
I hate thorns because of the push back
Spore shoorom
Spore shroom. Thorns gets in the way.
Well, thorns of agony needs you to get hit to use it, and i don't do that
Bro thats an awesome line
spore also is used after taking dmg
you can focus without being damaged
that's fair you can, but at that point you're using a charm notch and soul to get less dmg than just using a spell while being forced to be closer than you would a spell. seems like a lot of wasted potential.
Well yes, but probably still better than thorns of agony.
100% agreed
Spore shroom because mushroom guy quest
Spore shroom
None. I used thorns on my first playthrough, but I quickly recognized it was useless in most cases, so I took it off. I equiped Shroom when I got it, and never used it at all.
It's less than useless lol. If you hit an enemy during your i-frames, you'll do more damage than Thorns. It wouldn't be worth using even at 0 notches because it actively lowers your DPS. Spore Shroom at least has some niche uses. Particularly against Broken Vessel, it's helpful for popping the balloons.
Sporeshroom, has better synergies and saved me in my first playthrough when fighting Nosk. I believe Thorns makes your hitbox bigger, but I'm not sure
Thorns, but only for exploring, for bosses none
Thorns literally makes you less effective most of the time, so Spore Shroom
If i had to choose I'd pick spore shroom. I don't like thorns at all, when you get hit and they activate you can't do shit until it's done, thorns got me hit multiple times in a row because i couldn't move away from the enemy
Th*rns. I know some players hate it because reasons but for new players and the early game, when you struggle to get a hit in yet faceplant into enemies often, it’s a good help.
Thorns makes you deal LESS dmg lol
yeah when you manage to get hits in, when you don't it's better than nothing.
What situation can you NOT get hits in??? The game even slows down when you get hit
When you’re a beginner still not used to the controls…?
A begginer would probbably spam the controls, either way thorns is obtained in greepath post dash so its far enough for people to know the controls (imo), it is a good argument tho.
Oh wait i see you missed what i mean, im saying you can hit the enemies AFTER being hit which you cant do with thorns since it takes up the I-frames
Honestly i really like thorns of agony and I feel like it’s underrated, while it’s not good in the long run it makes me feel so good for an enemy to die as soon as it hits mw
Omg, SAME lol~!
wayward compass
Tbf, that charm is a *necessity* when it reeeally shouldn’t, lol!
Holy shit I never realised spore shroom was a cube
I feel like spore shroom is best when you can combine it with other stuff, and thorns just works (but has more innate downsides as have already been mentioned). That said I prefer to do the cheeky spore shroom combos when I’m bored :)
thorns, sometimes i like to go in guns blazing and punish the enemy for trying to punish me
Spore Shroom overall, but Thorns of Agony was the key that finally let me get past that floorless section in the Trial of the Fool.
Thorns. I will not be explaining anything
I like thorns more because extra dps for hornet fight
Thorns of Agony. Gives my brain a little bit more time to register that I have in fact taken damage, while doing a bit of damage at the same time.
Thorns of agony love its damange and knockback
damage and knockback? thats just a normal nail hit
Which makes it soooo good, crappy! If it was like, half or 3/4 a nail hit, it would be mid, but 1 FULL nail hit!? Sign me tf up!
Why don't you just hit it with your nail during the i-frames?
new players like to panic and run away when they get hit. So its good for them at least.
Well if they want to get away then thorns of agony will lose them I-frames
No, you don’t lose I-frames, you just are unable to do anything for most of those iframes. Luckily it knocks back enemies so you can still get away.
Have you ever understood that *we’re not perfect?* THATS why the more niece items, will ALWAYS have purpose to people who understand life’s struggles, whereas the *TOP* tier items…yeah, they have purpose but they’re *always* susceptible to getting nerfed.
You can just spam attack after being hit then run, i-frames last a while
They do, i think long enough to get in a heal many times (unless healing cancels i-frames, didn’t know if it did)
no you don't have time to heal, maybe with that one charm that speeds your healing up I forgot it's name since I never use it
Quick focus? There is also a charm that gives you more i-frames
Stalwart shell
Quick focus?
Thorns of agony cus that’s how I got through colo 3
Thorns
Spores, because thorns is only useful if you get hit close to the enemy. I also like combining Spore with Defender's Crest.
Thorns made me able to beat pure vessel i think
I hate thorns of agony and I love sporeshroom
Thorns of agony is detrimental. It briefly locks you into place when taking damage, and does nothing if the enemy isn’t nearby. Instead you could just use your i-frames to slash back at the enemy if it’s nearby, which is basically the same effect. Or if the enemy is far then you could use the i-frames for moving into a better position
spore is so mid, but it outclasses thorns since you lose it frames with thorns. though if i had a single charm slot open i'm not using either of these
Spore Shroom wins by default because it doesn't actively kneecap you by decreasing your DPS
I wouldnt use thorns if it was free, it uses all your iframes to deal your nail damage once, if you dont have it equipped you can do 1 nail swing and reposition. The charm just limits your nail damage output
You just don't know or didn't try to know how to use it...
He is rigth thorns sucks lol you can deal more dmg by hitting enemy
I think that it depend on your tactics and your abilities. There is no right or bad charms. There is better charms for some situation and good charms regarding your play style.
"No bad charms" The dream shield in question, the hiveblood in question, the blue dudes blessing in question
Dream shield helps me finish the coliseum last stage, hiveblood helped me on every pantheon, the blue dude blessing can be usefull (for mes) against Nightmare Grimm, Pure Vessel and every other boss that are too rapid to let me charge for another life. As I said, there is no bad charms, there is charms that fit you the most because of your play style and your strategy.
Im speaking about pure usefulness, hiveblood is just bad as its a worse kingsoul, and the blessing is worse then quick focus+deep focus combo.
Hiveblood helps during white palace and other platform challenges, where you get breaks to heal but might not always have the soul for it
Its usefull there yea but thats 1 very nieche use, you gonna tell me grimchild as a use? Its very outshadowed by the song charm
The only situation i see thorns gettong value if you are getting swarmed by enemies but at that point you can nailswing once a few enemies that are gathered to get soul and descending dark and you just dealt double the damage using infinitely less charm notches (0)
Spore is better as thorns makes you weaker in most situations. Unless you are surrounded by weak enemies you are better off using the i-frames to swing your nail or reposition.
Spore shroom. I hate the i-frames being stolen by thorns.
Arguably the biggest mid-off of them all. I’d have to say Spore Shroom is better but using builds that revolve around taking damage (thorns) or builds that incentivize down time instead of attacking (Spore Shroom) seem inferior to me. Given that nail and spell builds are so strong it seems silly to go for any other option
Spore shroom gives the slug knight some mushrooms. Thorns of agony does nothing of the sort. The winner is clear
Wayward compass anytime
Ive got void heart and i still use it after ending 2&3 (im gojng for ending 4/5 rn)
Like them both and I use them with Shield of baldur 😁
In hollow point thorns has crashed the game many times
Thorns. I don't care if it's better or worse, it looks cooler.
Fungal spores all the way
Spore shroom. Overall good charm if you ask me
Spore shroom because I paired it with defender’s crest
Sporeshroom
From my knowledge I would say spore shroom as you control when it activates and it lingers unlike thorns
The spores 100%
spore shroom can be helpful for coliseum of fools if you don’t have dream weilder ( dream weilder can get u max soul if you have a sheild enemy alone as they are too slow to actually do anything about the knockback you can also get soul from the garpedes ( trial 3 ) which helps alot as mainly the sheilded fools tho as dream weilder basically makes them the equivalent of hot springs during your bouts just make sure you get them alone tho otherwise it might not work as well
Both
You can cheese crystal guardian with dream nail and spore shroom. If that makes it good? Idk, but thorns takes away all iframes unless you use stalwart shell, but 3 notches to a “getting hit” build? Idk not that great
fungal spore, i have been messed up by thorns of agony too many times.
Thorns
Shroom just cause of the mister mushroom ending
I've never seen spore shroom as usefull. In my experience, the only enemies that stand still long enough to damage with spore shroom are at the same time the easiest enemies to just hit with your nail. This gets even worse because of the fact that you need to stand still to focus to even get the effect. Thorns was a constant charm in my early runs because it easily deals with enemies that run into you, aka, the exact enemies that are faster so harder to hit. The damage also scales with nail damage, making it even stronger when you get stronger. Yes, you don't get soul for the hit, which kinda hurts after just having taken some damage, but preventing you from taking more damage from the same enemies by just killing it is a pretty decent trade-off. On harder enemies it's kinda useless so I never use it anymore, but so is spore shroom which isn't really usefull on any enemies in my opinion.
Is definitly the compass
Compass
I used to really use thorns with baldurs shell so I could proc it without having to take any damage
Thorns got me through Eternal Ordeal, gotta go with it
Thorns
The defenders crest has always been my favorite.
I’ll get hate for this, but I was super stuck on Troupe Grimm, and finally got past him with hive blood and thorns. I couldn’t get hits on him, but I could just barely survive lol
Thorns, only because it's damage is just a little bit too high for a one notch charm. (I don't use either of these charms)
Thorns removes your iframes, which is why it's hated
I never noticed ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯. But that makes perfect sense why people don't like it.
I use both so I'd say thorns of agony, but I also use defenders crest and whatever that Charm is that makes you crawl on the ground when healing, so idk if you wanna trust me
lol, we *all* have a point to make, partner! U don’t need to hold it in~
My point is that I'm a goblin, lol
Thorns
I think Thorns is more broadly usable and I've had it equipped more often, but mushroom can be very useful in certain fights like in colosseum of fools
I’ve literally never taken thorns off.
Why not have both?
Well it depends because playing perfectly, these are both terrible, but I know that your newish and maybe just playing casually, but thorns is actually just a hindrance, because it doesn’t increase your iframes. It might help if your overwhelmed and disoriented, but it’ll make you play worse and cost you a notch. You are genuinely better off hitting the enemy with your nail during the invincibility. You’ll notice when you play more, but being able to move after getting hit is like crucial to harder fights in the game. Generally though there are better charms available that aren’t either of these. Spores is cool but the damage just isn’t as much as you’d expect. I’d advise fragil heart or grubsong if your trying to survive for longer, or if your looking for damage, maybe explore kingdoms edge, or beat the mantis lords, both will give you one of the best charms in the game
I will say this stuff isn’t super important tho. Play how you wanna play, as long as u havin fun 😊
Thx
…Bro thinks I actually fuckin care bout this shit. *AND* CARES that I’m NEWISH that’s funni~!!
Neither. They are bad charms
then don't comment
I am just saying to op that there are better charms and they should choose them
FUCK YOU! I *know* that’s what you’re trying to do, but I’m ALSO trying to let you know that *PEOPLE HAVE FEELINGS!* DAM… 😇😇😇
I'm not wasting 1 trinket slot with those, I usually use steady body when there's 1 slot remaining
Was that the question, bud?
I can't say a shit in the hollow knight community man, I always get downvoted as hell whenever I say something here.
I can't say a shit in the hollow knight community man, I always get downvoted as hell whenever I say something here.
Steady body feels like a clutch that screws with a basic habit (nail hits knocking you back) you’re supposed to develop tho. Kinda like the lock’n’load’s grenade speed bonus.
I am used to it, and there are bosses that are better without it, but there are a few bosses that become a little cooler to play with it