Whoever is handling the account recently upped the meme game, I hope they will up the quality too considering the recent issues with the announcement tweets (this one for Hakka mark is really minor imo).
But also I wish omega was still around, would have worked better for these things than the official account
also humanizes them far more than nameless, faceless "background" people, even though they should be.
Given them a front person to represent them does wonders to the positive image the staff have to the fanbase. Hell, we bloody *simp* for managers alongside the talents!
The problem with Omega wasn't really that the design was wasted (it was pretty good), but rather that they just kind of came out of nowhere. Sure, we had heard of different managers (Enma, Jenma, Henma, and J-chad) from the EN members, and we even had the Left 4 Dead collab, but we didn't even know if Omega was one of them, so for many, it was just this unknown person who seemed to have busybodied themselves into the new EN gen.
Imo they should have slowly introduced the general branch manager/the EN version of A-chan over some time, first through tweets introducing them to the fanbase, then perhaps hearing their voice either on official channel or a twitter space, and then announcing a model to represent them when the fanbase had gotten used to them.
This is, of course, just my opinion on the matter, and I am not a professional in this type of work, so I could be completely wrong in the way of doing things.
___
Edit: The currently named managers of Holo EN is so far [Enma](https://hololive.wiki/wiki/Enma), [Jenma](https://hololive.miraheze.org/wiki/Jenma), [Henma](https://hololive.wiki/wiki/Henma), and [J-chad](https://hololive.wiki/wiki/J-chad). Others have ofc been mentioned, but none have really gotten names and gotten the recognition these 4 did, nor have the others gotten a designed character from the talents themselves.
Coming out of nowhere is fine.
Remember, HoloX announcement was like 24 hours before debut.
The difference, of course, is that Omega didn’t really DO anything, at least public-facing (which is the only reason you’d even release and promote a character/design).
If anything, Omega was overly publicised. If it had been a weird out-of-nowhere instance like Holozontal, people would shrug and go “well that was weird and unnecessary” but move on.
Omega had too much publicity to be ignored, but didn’t functionally seem to do anything, before getting quietly removed without any explanation.
This following part is Tinfoil Hat, but judging by the timelines (Omega activity and HoloMems retrospectives) it’s fair to say that Omega was the result of some management blunders at EN during 2021-2022.
It fits with the general theme at the time. Council overall went ham on kayfabe to WWE levels mixed with anime chuuni (every Council member had a very forced schtick more than most, there was clearly some planned storylines a la WWE with the whole Time/Nature/Civilization gimmick).
Omega is really awkward in that it seems to be an A-chan equivalent (A vs Omega, public figure character who gives a face t company management) but is set up as some cosmic character… so what’s the character and what’s the business PR rep?
So yeah. If I was to (irresponsibly, without evidence) speculate, I’d argue that Omega seems to have been the result of unpopular management putting the cart before the horse, who wanted to have an avatar in the spotlight but didn’t really plan what that meant or entailed.
Yeah. It seems like omega was meant to be the parent of council. But it felt weird to have management top the talent that way. And having omega act like staff (A-chan & Nodoka) felt weird. Simply because the design is soo grandiose. Pretty sure some fans might take this the wrong way. Not to mention the impending goofication of omega, which happens to all of the talents anyway.
Unless they make a special debut and mention that omega is the amalgamation of en manager (ala Dr Who concept). But now A-chan can speak English, and EVERYONE loves her. So why risk it? Hence Omega is axed for now (or forever?)
> amalgamation of en manager
which would explain they/them nicely (I always thought of that as a 'my name is Legion for we are many' type deal, like Omega was representing EN management as a whole) but no, that got dragged into the gender debate somehow (hololive gone woke? oh noes!).
The whole "use whatever pronoun you like" from Omega was I think clearly taking inspiration from the Abrahamic religions. While God in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is frequently referred to as he/him, God has no actual gender. It's entirely valid to refer to God as she, they, or it. That idea of being above human gender conventions also kind of goes along with the lore of Omega being this super powerful being that is above even the fundamental forces of space, time, nature, and chaos.
I believe the original idea was to ride the EN management meme into a character for Council's management, only for the management meme run its course before Cover could bank on the theme. The way the Council girls initially interacted with Omega looks like they were supposed to be a recurring character. But without the meme, Omega was extraneous.
Cover tried to lean into a meme but were late to the party.
Oh you reminded me on the early council days. Somehow lore was a very strong focous point and all this time vs space, nature vs civilisation stuff the had for like a month or two before it fall appart because the actual dynamic just did not work that well. And Omegas debut as part of the first full gen collab of council. Big reveal with trailer and everything. Just to never use the design on a stream ever again. And after that all the talents just made fun of omega on stream.
If they wanted to create an avatar for management, they should made that character a staff member of hololive. Just like they did with A-Chan. Nobody needs a lot of lore why the streamer is managed by an Office person. Even if the streamer is a very orderly rat or the speaker of space. A-Chan is the staff person talking to demons, a dog, a witch a duck that thinks she is a sport club manager and a princess. Nobody says "that does not match the lore". We are all cool with it because A-Chan is cool.
If I could make a bet on it, it would be that omega was the pet project of some manager that was also behind all the chuuni lore and that felt like the were the en version of A-chan without the respekt for the job/postion and from the talents and the community. As soon as the jokes started the project was cancelled either because of hurt ego or because that person learned that they are not made to face the audience. Still what a waste for a cool concept and design.
You are right. The whole thing was a clown fest and should have done better. So I correct my statement: Omega was a wasted concept, that could have become something cool like an EN A-Chan using the holoEN Channel to host small shows and beeing a hybrid of an idol and staff to counter the comedian idols. Well whats done is done. Still sad but nothing that can be changed
I honestly thought at first that Omega would be the face of HoloEN staff with the announcement of like the new building in the west or something like that (Forgive me I can't fully recall) and she'd do the same A-chan and Nodoka does for the JP side.
That was probably the intent, but for one reason or another it just didnt work out that way.
Maybe the person behind Omega just got to swamped with other work and they realized it simply wasnt possible for them to do what A-Chan does, maybe its something else.
Its best not to speculate too much though.
It really wasn't a few tweets - they got a full trailer and were announced during council's debut collab. It's perfectly reasonable that people expected that to actually mean something and are confused when it didn't
I mean yeah obviously omega is dead as a doorknob, I don't think anyone's denying that - but that doesn't make it any less interesting to analyze why it failed
Man. Can really tell these posts are botted when we get a massively upvoted comment about wanting Omega back considering how much he stressed the girls out and contributed to 2022's clusterfuck.
i was referring more to the character itself and the idea of a face for EN management than the specific person behind it, also would be nice if people just started ignoring the botting, maybe then whoever is doing will get bored of doing it if people don't start drama for some internet points
Probably the intern. I mean, it is way easier for Hakka to reach up to hit their knees than for them to reach so far down to get his.
I mean, the could just stomp on him, but you specified knees.
Holo social media person makes a little mistake involving the boys: dogeza + apology tweet
Holo social media person misses a big milestone or event involving the girls that should get advertised : I sleep + a retweet 3 days later without apology : )
I don't really care at the socials manager bantering with Hakka, but the response in this thread has been *interesting* toward criticism for things like giving an apology for the wrong oshi mark for him but not for the chronic late/missing posts. It reminds me of the EN3 situation where people curious about where they were/when they were coming were basically told to sit down and shut up or "stop being le heckin' parasocial and watch the boys." If anyone wonders why things got tense since the start of 2023 - there is your answer.
Its frustrating cause as a stars and holo fan I do want to see more of both in this subreddit as I love both but stars posts got downvote botted the last few months and now things are going the other way with stars posts getting upvote botted which is causing even more issues. And I won't blame 'unicorns' in that regard. Its just clashing cultures between those who are fans of female idols (which is the large majority in this subreddit) and those who are fans of male idols (Though I remember there being way more holostars posts when I first joined the subreddit in 2020 than now so I do think its partially unicorns). And many stars fan would be fine being in the stars reddit if it wasn't practically abandoned by moderators even longer than the holopro reddit has.
There definitely is a clashing of culture though. There wouldn't be so many issues right now if there wasn't, we've been seeing it especially around the time Tempus VG debuted. And my point was that I didn't think a few brigaders and schizos are at the helm of the boat. Its just that they are taking advantage of this clash to stir up drama and make one side or the other look bad.
What the members of the hololive culture and holostars culture do isn't conflicting or overlapping each other. It's pure oshikatsu where ever you look. Hide the talent's face and you won't see a difference between both cultures.
If there really were problems and conflicts at a cultural level you would see the same arguments in 2020 before holoEN and also on the discords servers.
The only place that cultivated a culture of what EN fans refer as unicorns is /vt/. And if you find some of that outside of 4chan then it's an instance of containment breaking. Not an instance of a hololive fan "engaging too hard" in the hololive culture.
> you won't see a difference between both cultures
This is where I disagree, at least on the EN side.
StarsEN is very open to collabing outside of the HoloPro sphere, while HoloEN is known as a walled-garden who mostly keep to themselves.
There was also a comment made by someone who claimed to be a Stars fan, [saying that Stars fan cares more about their "community" than the "content" of their oshi](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/14t5za9/are_posts_getting_shadowbanned/jr12m5d/?context=3), but I'm not sure if I want to believe them.
Idk why your reply got in my inbox but the thread's link doesn't work. (EDIT: seems fine now)
>StarsEN is very open to collabing outside of the HoloPro sphere, while HoloEN is known as a walled-garden who mostly keep to themselves.
You are talking about the decisions talents take in order to get more viewers and I'm talking about how the fanbase looks like.
>10month old comment: [holostars fans] view their actual streams and music as vestigial "meta-media" and don't engage with it to the same extent that they engage with the social media side of things
I don't agree with that poster. It's a stupid take. Content is equally appreciated in both fanbases and everyone knows this.
EDIT: Both holostars and hololive have a big set of followers that don't engage with the content in the same way a regular chatter does. There is people that are fans of the community but don't spend much energy on the streaming content itself.
They are both idol focused but the main difference is just how much faster one section of the fanbase grew over the other. HololiveEN had such massive growth on its debut compared to holostars EN. This also meant that the holoEN community vastly overshadowed the starsEN community until tempus debuted though at the time there wasn't any hostility.
The reason why I say there is a difference in culture is cause holoStars EN as a branch is still growing and trying to its place within the market while HoloEN branch has already found its place within the market. In that sense, a lot of starsEN fans are trying to get their oshis out into the spotlight anyway they can just like how early hololive fans did with their oshis (See the story of Aki's fans putting in a lot of effort to get their oshi seen by others). And the reason why there has been more hostility against stars lately than in the beginning is cause some of the more fervent and bad parasocial fans view starsEN talents as competition and taking away resources from their oshis despite being way smaller (See people accusing tempus HQ and VG being the reason it took 2 years to gen Holo EN gen3)
> how much faster one section of the fanbase grew over the other
The holostar fanbase isn't a section of the hololive fanbase. It's its own thing. The people that are part of both fanbases could be described as a section, but they are a minority. Also, the hololive fanbase growth happened without the existence of holostars in both JP and EN branches.
>The reason why I say there is a difference in culture is cause holoStars EN as a branch is still growing and trying to its place within the market while HoloEN branch has already found its place within the market
And this is where we disagree strongly. Hololive is also still growing and trying to go beyond where it is. The fans of the girls share a massive list of unfulfilled dreams. And everyone is trying their best to get the spotlight. As I said, oshikatsu wherever you look.
The reason for the hostility is very simple: there's no moderation. Bad apples are everywhere and whatever they think or say will never make sense.
>"stop being le heckin' parasocial and watch the boys." If anyone wonders why things got tense since the start of 2023
It certainly didn't help when they decided to lock down the subreddit for Tempus 2 where people that just only watch Hololive and are here for only Hololive suddenly couldn't post anything about Hololive, like about Ame's birthday for example.
It also didn't help that for a while that some people tried to push StarsEN as HoloEN 3rd gen when people were wondering if there would be a new HoloEN gen or not.
And a bit of a minor note of how people are also pushing calling HoloEN as ''LiveEN'' ever since StarsEN got revealed, even now people are still trying to do that.
> It certainly didn't help when they decided to lock down the subreddit for Tempus 2 where people that just only watch Hololive and are here for only Hololive suddenly couldn't post anything about Hololive, like about Ame's birthday for example.
Yeah a lot of the comments around then were pretty nasty. Complain about how there is no thread to talk about Amelia's birthday? "Suck it up, parasocial."
>It also didn't help that for a while that some people tried to push StarsEN as HoloEN 3rd gen when people were wondering if there would be a new HoloEN gen or not.
Aye, same as above. Open hostility to people that just want they're interested in.
>And a bit of a minor note of how people are also pushing calling HoloEN as ''LiveEN'' ever since StarsEN got revealed, even now people are still trying to do that.
Holo members have been saying ホロメン/holo members for basically 6 years. I'm really resistant to people trying to alter the hobby. It's always demanding small changes and then big ones.
Their new Hololive app has a nice function that will prevent any of this from appearing there. A simple button that lets you decide if you want to see content about Hololive, Holostars, or both.
Anyone who wants to see Holostars content can see it. Anyone who doesn't doesn't have to.
its honestly a little baffling that we don't have tags here, if people could just filter out holostars posts that'd probably alleviate a lot of the grievances
About HoloPlus: even if you add both branches to your account the spaces are separated. You don't see stars conversation in between the holo threads. It's either all holo or all stars.
There's no "holopro" space yet. Only this subreddit lol
Even with that filter there are still people posting Holostars on the Hololive side of the app. It still requires mods to take care of those kinds of people.
Ima eat a bunch of downvotes for this, but I disagree that this is the main reason things got tense. If anything it was only one of many factors that contributed to the tensions we had back then, and I do not even think it was the biggest factor back then.
We have to remember, the calls for EN3 came during a time where there was a big lull in Promise and Myth streams. The fact that a second wave of boys came out was used by bad actors to screech about favoritism which resonated with the broader fanbase because of this content drought and the fact we were expecting a third EN gen soon based on past trends. So you had the boys getting attacked and people blaming them for the lack of EN3, and then people going way over the line on the other side blaming it on "Unicorns" and talking down to others, which resulted in this heated division between the fans, more so then we had ever had before.
I remember a few very obvious Anti Star's posters going ham at the time. And at the same time, we had people on the opposite end doing exactly what you stated, telling people to stop being parasocial or suck it up. And who knows whether these people were even fans or just tourists stirring drama. You remember how people took advantage of Suisei, whose to say that was not also occurring back then. But regardless it was two sides, that I had hoped were only minorities of each fanbase, igniting a culture war that were still seeing the effects of to this day. But it only got to this point because of the underlying situation EN was in. Tensions would not have erupted as nasty as they did if many other things had not happened previously to set the stage.
Let me make it clear here though, I am not in any way blaming this on the Girls not streaming, I am just stating that the lack of streams was an obvious and huge factor in the unrest. I remember Kiara even going above and beyond at some point to stream more to make up for it, or maybe I am imagining that.
At the same time, This subreddit has its own subset of users that cannot truly be considered emblematic of each fanbase. The amount of people who visit here is actually a lot smaller compared to the overall fanbase, so its not fair to ascribe what happens here to the greater masses.
> And who knows whether these people were even fans or just tourists stirring drama
I've addressed this [before](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1btll9l/cover_corporation_announces_hololive_meet_2024/kxpvtxf/), but while there _were_ some people throwing hate around, the extremists were downvoted for the most part. Community regulars were very much involved in the discussion, as you can see people in those threads that are still posting in this subreddit to this day. Hell even the [mod](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j30245i/) was aware that there was some legitimate resentment building up, which is why they locked the subreddit after Tempus 2 was announced, which ended up being counterproductive.
Helmite is correct that even from that period, there's been a trend of minimizing(or outright dismissing) legitimate issues coming from the audience that watches only the girls - which is the majority of this subreddit. [Linking](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j31fdff/) some [examples](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/104gw31/were_free/j37qaz4?context=3) here. The first commenter especially tried to present some legitimate grievances in a civil way, yet a lot of the replies to it were dismissive of what was arguably the community's silent majority sentiment at the time (and thus, got downvoted). One such [commenter](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j333guj/) is now a regular Gura anti here, spamming passive aggressive comments against her, so you can see how that might build certain perceptions among people (Funny to see them talk about entitlement at that time, and seeing them feeling entitled to Gura streams in the present day).
There's [two comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j3414cs/) that [sum up](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/zztlx8/hololive_production_countdown_live_20222023/j2dsfgr/) the situation quite well.
> Going to be honest, this is how you turn mild interest or apathy into something more negative.
.
> I'm so tired of people declaring our responsability as Hololive fans to "help" Holostars. I don't care about them, I will never care about them, and that's fine.
I don't want to be constantly pressured into watching something I have no interest on.
^ this second sentiment in particular seems to be something that a lot of people seem unable to accept, even to this day, which is what I'd argue is the second main source of conflict after the abysmal moderation.
I'm confused as to what were in conflict about? I agreed with Helmite in that what he stated was a real issue, just that I feel it was not the main factor.
Your absolutely correct also about the tourist thing. I am just making sure to cover all my bases, as there was obviously the possibility of tourists, even if they were not a majority.
The minimizing of actual grievances has happened to both sides at different times. I also remember like you mentioned some people minimizing the issues of viewers of only the girls, which was at its height back during the period you linked to when Vanguard debuted. Nowadays I tend to see the opposite, where its Stars fans having concerns minimized, but some would call that karma for how some "fans" (I use quotation because if your attacking the girls or their fans I do not consider you a true Holostar fan. You do not have to drag the girls down to prop the boys up, and the opposite is also true.) acted back during the Vanguard debut, which you linked to perfectly.
I know your someone who discusses in good faith, maybe I am just tired so I am not seeing something obviously wrong with my post. Was just wondering where your post was coming from. I appreciate how you always find sources to link back to.
Was a bit sleep deprived during that post, so I missed addressing a point in your earlier post, sorry about that confusion -
> So you had the boys getting attacked and people blaming them for the lack of EN3
Almost all the criticism in that thread was against management (for their debut decisions) and the moderation team (for the subreddit lock). Comments attacking talents themselves generally tend to get downvoted here >!except when it's Gura, for some reason!<. The thread is still up, so it'd be nice if you could show me any upvoted comment that was attacking the talents themselves directly.
> I am just stating that the lack of streams was an obvious and huge factor in the unrest
> I agreed with Helmite in that what he stated was a real issue, just that I feel it was not the main factor.
That's where I disagree. It was one issue for sure, but it was one of _several_ issues, lot of which were not specific to this subreddit but the direction of the EN branch as a whole. If lack of streams was the main issue then Advent debut would've resolved the problem. That's clearly not been the case.
> screech about favoritism which resonated with the broader fanbase because of this content drought
I don't think people needed any outsiders stirring anything to see favoritism for themselves, and it had absolutely nothing to do with content drought. People saw how Irys remodel kept getting delayed for so long [(Irys talked about how long she had to wait for it when she first teased it)](https://youtu.be/Xq9JWIf9zOY?t=4741) while two other remodels happened in record time. People saw [HoloJP streams](https://youtu.be/CQRsfjHB-BA?t=40) being banned from overlapping Uproar 3D debuts (which again, had the opposite effect, causing them to rescind that rule later on). People were already seeing signs of favoritism from up top in the buildup to Tempus 2 debut, and debuting them before EN3 simply confirmed their fears.
Later on, this pattern continued. People heard from Irys about how [Project:Hope](https://youtu.be/Pef7swY44Zc) was left to flounder without direction since her debut and then saw management pouring resources into a [Visual Novel](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2687600/Doppelgnger/) for talents barely a year into their career. People saw how the holoen twitter changed after the merge, which got so bad even the talents themselves are now [speaking out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JowuOuoZns) about it. People saw Yagoo making a [terrible excuse](https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/16jm7w9/yagoo_explains_why_en_3_took_so_long_cover_qfr/) for their delay in debuting new HoloEN talents (which did not seem to apply to Tempus 1 or 2 for some reason). People saw the 9 month old Tempus 2 being [highlighted as "new debuts"](https://youtu.be/sf4WWLd9swI?t=1032) on the HoloPro 6th anniversary stream, while Advent - who had debuted just 2 months ago at the time - didn't even get a mention.
Even now the people on reddit that are Holostars-only fans have a space of their own, while people who are Hololive-only don't. There is still favoritism happening from the highest level, but Hololive is a welcoming community so we accommodate these things to some extent. But every community has limits to how much abuse they'll tolerate.
> Nowadays I tend to see the opposite, where its Stars fans having concerns minimized
Parallel to the above, we did have [several](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/14tbjzf/someone_is_mass_downvotingreporting_posts_made_by/) [posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/15ajbbp/after_making_a_joke_between_starslive_my_post_was/) that [talked](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/14t5za9/are_posts_getting_shadowbanned/) about this issue. End result was that we can't exactly do anything about downvotes, it's just individual users making their opinion known - as is the case with almost all other subreddits - keep posting, keep talking about your oshis, ignore the downvotes. Automod issue was also resolved after it got abused to remove Hololive posts, but Holostars posts still devolve into [discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cu8peb/shinris_new_outfit/l4h7sby/) [about](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cuxazw/we_are_so_back/l4m6j36/) [downvotes](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cuyl35/koi_yourself/l4mpgm3/), inevitably ending up with flinging shit at Hololive-only fans.
You can look at all the examples linked above, which affected the talents first and foremost. The "issues" that Holostars community has is isolated to this one subreddit, while issues about the EN branch or Hololive as a whole goes beyond that. There's an entire subreddit to discuss the Holostars without any of these downvotes or automod issues, but Holostars posts are still upvoted in this sub after the initial downvote barrage because the community as a whole is welcoming. But again, that tolerance has limits, especially when a lot of people are unable to accept the last point in my previous post.
I honestly don't think anyone here would minimize legitimate concerns when it comes to the talents themselves and expect to get upvotes. If you have any examples to the contrary, I'd love to know.
Once again, thanks for the well thought out reply and your effort in linking back to sources is something I envy, in that you do it so well.
The only thing I think we will not reach an agreement on is the stream drought. Tensions had already erupted and festered into a divide by the time Advent debuted, so even with their debut the damage had already been done and the divide made wide. Hence even with the overall problem solved the lingering resentment still manifested.
Also I should have been clearer in what I meant when I said they blamed the boys. I meant the existence of them was a tool used against Star's as a whole, not that they were individually targeted. It would feel shitty to be constantly referenced as a reason EN3 did not happen sooner would it not? To constantly be used to attack management of no fault of their own.
And I will also echo your correct in your final point from your previous post, it is not the Hololive girls fans job to support Stars, and I lament that earlier on there was a very aggressive push doing just that. We both know how that backfired spectacularly.
Also I spoke about fan concerns, not talent concerns, which is also what you were talking about in your previous post no? Not sure where you got me saying anyone would diminish the talents concerns, that's something that I can say we handle well here, we always downvote that stuff regardless of which talent.
Thanks for the insightful discussion. Its people like you and Helmite who I can engage in good faith discussion with that make it worth posting to reddit.
> the existence of them was a tool used against Star's as a whole, not that they were individually targeted
True, I did see too many emotionally charged comments about numbers and business and what not.. and while "business wise" they may have points, I don't think anyone in this hobby would like their oshi's existence to be reduced to just "business", so that was certainly unfortunate.
I do think management and the mod team were primarily at fault though, for not handling that particular debut (or the previous New Years' Countdown post) very well, causing the festering issues to flare up.
> I spoke about fan concerns, not talent concerns, which is also what you were talking about in your previous post no?
I'll clarify this, what I meant was concerns from fans about the direction the EN branch or Hololive as a whole was moving in, examples of the girls themselves talking about all the issues happening in 2022 etc. (which I've linked), and a pattern of comments critical of mods/Cover being equated as "troll comments" and getting deleted by the mods, while leaving a bunch of actual troll comments and buzzword spam intact. It's a far cry in seriousness from multi-post discussions about how "my post got downvoted on reddit", yet for a while such complaints were given due consideration as well, until people caught on to the fact that a lot of them weren't _listening_.
It's always a pleasure to find someone willing to engage in good faith without throwing buzzwords around. Hopefully this exchange was fruitful to you as well, have a good day!
It's better to not project what goes down on reddit to the general community. Core fans have moved on to much better (and moderated) places to engage like discord and the "Following" tab of twitter, where everything holopro is welcome warmly as long as it shared in the channels that make sense.
Talked more how this is a reddit only thing [on this stars](https://www.reddit.com/r/Holostars/comments/1cxbppc/about_the_current_situation_on_the_main_sub_and/l52dknl/) thread.
Every single Holostars posts:
Someone submit a Holostar content > Post and comments gets downvoted/upvoted to hell > People complain post is being botted and bring up unrelated comments > Post gets taken down > Repeat
Did you just try to rewrite the fact that before the botting get pointed out. About until a year ago, in every single star post, without fail, you can see people complaining about downvote then point to the "unicorn parasocial". And when you check their history, without fail it's user from okbh and holostar. How do you explain that.
Buddy, you three boys have a bunch of stolen sockpuppet accounts backing your asses with fake upvotes and likes. Half the goddamn accounts I've tracked as of yet have been manually deleted in post, not by admins or mods, but by you yourselves.
You're third wheeling Helmir and a (Several words that are not allowed to be said in comments) tr*ll on twitter. I don't know if anyone should be trusting things about botting coming out of you guys' mouths when every positive comment in these threads get nuked and you guys have time and time again proven yourselves to have the means to perpetrate it.
jesus dude, even if it's real the fact that you're actually attempting to track the accounts is really sad. please for the love of god find something better to do with your time
*TIL I am Lex Luthor*
Serious talk, as to not exacerbate whatever mental health problem you have. I suggest you go outside and touch grass. Also when you go back crying in that little okbh discord of yours, tell them that I send my regards.
> Buddy, you three boys have a bunch of stolen sockpuppet accounts backing your asses with fake upvotes and likes.
I didn't see this one, but that's quite the claim. Also you've been on Reddit long enough to know that doesn't fly since Unidan.
"Ouro Kronii new outfit? who cares. Nanashi Mumei achieved 1M subs? nothingburger. SOME INTERN MESSING AROUND WITH HAKKA'S OSHI MARK??? NOT ON MY WATCH"
I can only imagine Hakka replied not really thinking through what would happen if they accept. What really needs to happen though is this whole thing needs to be a Hologra episode.
Not sure why I got down votes. Just imagine Hakka getting ready to duel only for A Chan to walk out as his opponent. If it's a combo battle have Axel back up Hakka until Nodoka appears and Axel just immediately concedes.
What are you talking about? The [last one](https://youtu.be/paqMT0bGL68) was a month ago and the [one before that featured the EN boys](https://youtu.be/B1clJQARhQ8).
Oh wow, I'm surprised. I heard from holostars fans on Twitter that it was shuttering around the same time they were talking about being restricted to more standardized merch. Good go hear that it's not the case.
It was stopped as a weekly series like Hologra is. They still do animated shorts for special events like Uproar's 2nd anniversary live and for the Super Expo, but Starcolle doesn't exist as an actual Hologra equivalent at this point.
Stars Collection did stop, but they are getting [these 3D anime episodes from time to time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1clJQARhQ8).
It's been a leaner year for them. But the upcoming concert was a big success and I feel more things should be coming to them if they stay consistent and more EN members get their 3D. It's good that they are in a unique position in the market and that their fanbase is supportive.
If the pattern was more clear I'd agree, but it's absolutely everything that's getting odd votes. If it was clearly certain types of comments that was incurring it then it'd be easier to tell which group it was coming from, but everything from pro-live, pro-stars to even anything completely outside the argument is getting targeted.
It means there are clearly bots being thrown into the mix, but they can still single out replies to push to the top (or bottom). The karma change rate is clearly quite linear in that regard. Just observation though. I feel that you can just cook up a themed dish or do fanart to support your oshi but this is quite something else.
If we go down the line of there being bots, the origin and intention of the bots is obfuscated by their indiscriminate nature. Even among the comments that have been pushed to the top, you have messaging among them that's conflicting to each other (this tracks amongst prior posts this has happened to as well). If the person/group initiating the vote manipulation was from a certain "side" in this internal cultural dispute the community has been having, the logical assumption would be that there would be a prevailing narrative being put forwards that would be in some way supportive of their own views. There's also the possibility that there's multiple groups each doing their own vote manipulation on the sub and we're just seeing the fallout of their ideological dispute, it could even be a group/individual deliberately being random just to shit-stir and cause controversy (admittedly if we're assuming it's botting I sort of lean towards this idea), but we currently don't have a strong indication for the background or intention of the vote manipulation yet other than the sort of posts they keep targeting so I'd say we should keep finger pointing to a minimum for now.
tbf bettel is probably one of the more actually supported holostars, afaik he at least regularly gets above 2k viewers and sometimes hits 3k. His ceiling is still holostars small, but for its size his fanbase at least watches him. The upvotes here still beat his average live viewers though which is very funny. Its obviously raided or botted to hell.
>as much effort to support their oshi normally.
that's supposing whoever is doing it is an actual fan and not someone that does it to stir up drama. They are just botting upvotes/downvotes and that's enough to see people go at each others throat
There has been a group of people either botting/brigading Stars posts to the top of the sub or deciding they're a good place to use as proxy wars. It was the new flavor of the day after automod was axed.
Yeah it's fine. My general recommendation for people that don't want to get super informed and engage in trying to dispel any of the stuff to basically just avoid it as best as possible. There is a *lot* of misinformation that gets pushed around by the uninformed, people who actively want to hurt the reputation of Hololive, and folks that make money off Youtube clicks.
Not shaming you OP just whoever is botting this post. It's just really obvious this amount of upvotes in this timeframe is not normal. Either to bury the Kronii post or for the sake of more drama or something more. Either way enjoy and support your oshis 👍
Brigaders using bots has been hard confirmed, it's not a narrative.
It's not drama. It's just some schizo wasting their money on an imaginary culture war.
it may very well be some schizo going renegade and doing this, but comments like above still dont help. this thread is filled with ppl blaming stars fans, or jumping to conclusions just because a post has a certain amount of upvotes, innocent comments being mass downvoted. shit’s shameful. we need to just get along.
That's why everyone needs to figure out what they can do to help. Calling the botting a narrative helps as much as pointing fingers at OP or at the stars community.
Drama and flaming is exactly the reaction the schizos want to see. People should stop feeding and rewarding the antis.
Don't mind them, plenty of people in this subreddit trying to stir up drama under any stars related post both by botting downvotes and botting upvotes, the best thing is to just ignore the unusual amount of upvotes/downvotes and all the comments talking about that
The bot has been confirmed. They botted so hard at first that it triggered reddit's site-wide vote manipulation filtering on a couple of threads. And those removed threads were still getting hundred of upvotes after removal.
Pointing fingers IS bad and we can see people learned to not do that. It should be understood by everyone that the brigading won't stop until we get real moderation on these official subreddits
It's not something new, people were complaining about official twitter account blattant holostars favoritism months ago already, it just didn't change, and a lot of people stopped carring about that account because how unreliable it is.
I mean nowoday it's more a star fan ran account rather than an official one.
90% and it's missing a good chunk, if normaly they would do their job properly it would be 99% hololive, just because there are more stuff going on, that's the reality.
And honnestly it's favoritism from the simple fact that i was originaly the holoLIVE EN account, not the holopro one and it got hickjacked for the only purpose to promote da boiz.
The easy answer to that is, because StarsEn debuted later. I don't think you know what favoritism is if you think 10% is that. And I don't see how it's a bad thing to promote the boys, they're a business. Of course they'd want to promote everyone. You good? Like highjacked? It's not that deep.
Do you really think all brigaders left? Every thread was getting nuked from reports. Artists that liked reddit couldn't even share OC properly. Now that automod got fixed, the brigaders didn't leave. And their actions on this unmoderated space are causing tensions in the userbase.
Not a great moment to be posting antagonistic comments.
It can't exactly change the narrative unless people are on 320 by 240 resolution monitors...you'd see both posts. Kronii's complaints didn't magically disappear.
edit: also don't say malicious bias. The bias in this case would be to **Bae** if you actually look at the timeline of what was going on at the time. Your own bias with holostar is forgetting that your argument would go towards the wrong person! This is not something Kronii said and it looks terrible.
If you say this is all a malicious bias, then you have to remember this post? Right here?
*Isn't at all something that was being referenced*
You can check the other thread and what was actually being talked about was that Kronii's outfit reveal was tweeted I think 2 hours before her stream.
*In comparison to Bae's being tweeted 3 days before*
The problem with calling this out as malicious bias, is that the OP's post is not the one adjacent to Kronii's incident, it's Bae's outfit reveal. This all happened 2-3 weeks ago.
This is only adjacent on this subreddit, which the management didn't post to to begin with.
Calling it malicious bias is going past what Kronii said and because of misconstruing timelines, it's saying Management is bias in a completely different way.
How does that account work and who is behind it, a person/group of people?
Will a person tweet as a list given to that one by talent managers, or will anyone with access to the account do it?
I dunno, did y’all see him [fight off that giant scorpion?](https://www.youtube.com/live/9gtg7l90fxk?si=tAjvAoEwwY_OKvfF&t=40m36s) I think he has this in the bag.
Bruh their socmed team need more people now than blatant unwarranted firing. Their socmed team definitely is being bogged down by unrelated work outside of socmed stuff.
Mythological beings, crazy in the head people, lewd/horny, dudes being dudes, and office workers jousting with the boys/girls. There is nothing normal about this agency. But lack of normality is what makes it...
**..Normal.**
Yago approved culling of Stars. I nominate Rin Penrose as the ref because we know she'll be absolutely unfair and unscrupulous, favouring whichever side gives her more money
Certainly don't have reason to do so, no. Hololive members on average are vastly more popular than people outside. A lot of fans aren't going to know outside vtubers and really there isn't any point in giving them advertisement of their existence in this of all places anyway.
That's like saying you can't mention Dokibird or have a post *with* Doki in it for whatever reason for the simple fact that they aren't Holo. *Mentioning* a non-Holo vtuber and thinking of it as advertisement is such an incredible stretch
If she's not doing a collab with someone working with Cover there isn't any reason to bring her up in the Hololive subreddit just because she's your bestie.
Slide 1- Hakka: I am a genius! Slide 2- Hakka: Oh no!
God dammit I wheezed 🤣
The pfp matched the 3rd slide soo much
I read it with his voice xD
Slide 2 in Junior's voice
Whoever is handling the account recently upped the meme game, I hope they will up the quality too considering the recent issues with the announcement tweets (this one for Hakka mark is really minor imo). But also I wish omega was still around, would have worked better for these things than the official account
The person themselves aside, I think Achan, Nodoka and Shinove did show that having a face for the staff side of things makes communication easier.
also humanizes them far more than nameless, faceless "background" people, even though they should be. Given them a front person to represent them does wonders to the positive image the staff have to the fanbase. Hell, we bloody *simp* for managers alongside the talents!
Bro, we simp for everyone. Even things like pekobot
I miss pekobot...
I miss pekobot peko...
If not oshi, why oshi-shaped?
Cover isn't going to platform any staff to a "character" just to paint the communication in better colors. They are very careful about this.
omega was such a wasted design.
The problem with Omega wasn't really that the design was wasted (it was pretty good), but rather that they just kind of came out of nowhere. Sure, we had heard of different managers (Enma, Jenma, Henma, and J-chad) from the EN members, and we even had the Left 4 Dead collab, but we didn't even know if Omega was one of them, so for many, it was just this unknown person who seemed to have busybodied themselves into the new EN gen. Imo they should have slowly introduced the general branch manager/the EN version of A-chan over some time, first through tweets introducing them to the fanbase, then perhaps hearing their voice either on official channel or a twitter space, and then announcing a model to represent them when the fanbase had gotten used to them. This is, of course, just my opinion on the matter, and I am not a professional in this type of work, so I could be completely wrong in the way of doing things. ___ Edit: The currently named managers of Holo EN is so far [Enma](https://hololive.wiki/wiki/Enma), [Jenma](https://hololive.miraheze.org/wiki/Jenma), [Henma](https://hololive.wiki/wiki/Henma), and [J-chad](https://hololive.wiki/wiki/J-chad). Others have ofc been mentioned, but none have really gotten names and gotten the recognition these 4 did, nor have the others gotten a designed character from the talents themselves.
Coming out of nowhere is fine. Remember, HoloX announcement was like 24 hours before debut. The difference, of course, is that Omega didn’t really DO anything, at least public-facing (which is the only reason you’d even release and promote a character/design). If anything, Omega was overly publicised. If it had been a weird out-of-nowhere instance like Holozontal, people would shrug and go “well that was weird and unnecessary” but move on. Omega had too much publicity to be ignored, but didn’t functionally seem to do anything, before getting quietly removed without any explanation. This following part is Tinfoil Hat, but judging by the timelines (Omega activity and HoloMems retrospectives) it’s fair to say that Omega was the result of some management blunders at EN during 2021-2022. It fits with the general theme at the time. Council overall went ham on kayfabe to WWE levels mixed with anime chuuni (every Council member had a very forced schtick more than most, there was clearly some planned storylines a la WWE with the whole Time/Nature/Civilization gimmick). Omega is really awkward in that it seems to be an A-chan equivalent (A vs Omega, public figure character who gives a face t company management) but is set up as some cosmic character… so what’s the character and what’s the business PR rep? So yeah. If I was to (irresponsibly, without evidence) speculate, I’d argue that Omega seems to have been the result of unpopular management putting the cart before the horse, who wanted to have an avatar in the spotlight but didn’t really plan what that meant or entailed.
Yeah. It seems like omega was meant to be the parent of council. But it felt weird to have management top the talent that way. And having omega act like staff (A-chan & Nodoka) felt weird. Simply because the design is soo grandiose. Pretty sure some fans might take this the wrong way. Not to mention the impending goofication of omega, which happens to all of the talents anyway. Unless they make a special debut and mention that omega is the amalgamation of en manager (ala Dr Who concept). But now A-chan can speak English, and EVERYONE loves her. So why risk it? Hence Omega is axed for now (or forever?)
> amalgamation of en manager which would explain they/them nicely (I always thought of that as a 'my name is Legion for we are many' type deal, like Omega was representing EN management as a whole) but no, that got dragged into the gender debate somehow (hololive gone woke? oh noes!).
The whole "use whatever pronoun you like" from Omega was I think clearly taking inspiration from the Abrahamic religions. While God in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is frequently referred to as he/him, God has no actual gender. It's entirely valid to refer to God as she, they, or it. That idea of being above human gender conventions also kind of goes along with the lore of Omega being this super powerful being that is above even the fundamental forces of space, time, nature, and chaos.
I believe the original idea was to ride the EN management meme into a character for Council's management, only for the management meme run its course before Cover could bank on the theme. The way the Council girls initially interacted with Omega looks like they were supposed to be a recurring character. But without the meme, Omega was extraneous. Cover tried to lean into a meme but were late to the party.
Oh you reminded me on the early council days. Somehow lore was a very strong focous point and all this time vs space, nature vs civilisation stuff the had for like a month or two before it fall appart because the actual dynamic just did not work that well. And Omegas debut as part of the first full gen collab of council. Big reveal with trailer and everything. Just to never use the design on a stream ever again. And after that all the talents just made fun of omega on stream. If they wanted to create an avatar for management, they should made that character a staff member of hololive. Just like they did with A-Chan. Nobody needs a lot of lore why the streamer is managed by an Office person. Even if the streamer is a very orderly rat or the speaker of space. A-Chan is the staff person talking to demons, a dog, a witch a duck that thinks she is a sport club manager and a princess. Nobody says "that does not match the lore". We are all cool with it because A-Chan is cool. If I could make a bet on it, it would be that omega was the pet project of some manager that was also behind all the chuuni lore and that felt like the were the en version of A-chan without the respekt for the job/postion and from the talents and the community. As soon as the jokes started the project was cancelled either because of hurt ego or because that person learned that they are not made to face the audience. Still what a waste for a cool concept and design.
You are right. The whole thing was a clown fest and should have done better. So I correct my statement: Omega was a wasted concept, that could have become something cool like an EN A-Chan using the holoEN Channel to host small shows and beeing a hybrid of an idol and staff to counter the comedian idols. Well whats done is done. Still sad but nothing that can be changed
I honestly thought at first that Omega would be the face of HoloEN staff with the announcement of like the new building in the west or something like that (Forgive me I can't fully recall) and she'd do the same A-chan and Nodoka does for the JP side.
That was probably the intent, but for one reason or another it just didnt work out that way. Maybe the person behind Omega just got to swamped with other work and they realized it simply wasnt possible for them to do what A-Chan does, maybe its something else. Its best not to speculate too much though.
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It really wasn't a few tweets - they got a full trailer and were announced during council's debut collab. It's perfectly reasonable that people expected that to actually mean something and are confused when it didn't
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I mean yeah obviously omega is dead as a doorknob, I don't think anyone's denying that - but that doesn't make it any less interesting to analyze why it failed
>omega oh boy, came too late to say "inb4 rip the comments"
Man. Can really tell these posts are botted when we get a massively upvoted comment about wanting Omega back considering how much he stressed the girls out and contributed to 2022's clusterfuck.
i was referring more to the character itself and the idea of a face for EN management than the specific person behind it, also would be nice if people just started ignoring the botting, maybe then whoever is doing will get bored of doing it if people don't start drama for some internet points
hope the twtter intern has fun playing with hakka before they get shot by kronii
What happened to omega?
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Meanwhile Yamada: Fight! Fight! Fight! 😈
The Holo intern vs the Latino Who would have their knees capped?
Probably the intern. I mean, it is way easier for Hakka to reach up to hit their knees than for them to reach so far down to get his. I mean, the could just stomp on him, but you specified knees.
Going off of Hakka's performance in Wrestletuber, I'd wager he has a slight edge
Hakka has been lifting holostars members and manhandling them around
Intern-kun is a survivor.
Hakka's 3D debut is just going to be an hour long fistfight with staff while he belts J-metal.
I cannot wait to see his 3D and the rest of the Vanguard bros!
No, it will a Knife Edge Deathmatch
I respect the Yu Yu Hakusho reference
Then Ankimo shows up and "no sells" Hakka going full raiden v armstorng level of punches to its chest.
Hakka's gonna get his shit kicked in but i'll still cheer for him anyway
He's just a little guy! (which means it's easier for him to deliver nut-shots)
Always cheer for the underdog
Holo social media person makes a little mistake involving the boys: dogeza + apology tweet Holo social media person misses a big milestone or event involving the girls that should get advertised : I sleep + a retweet 3 days later without apology : )
I don't really care at the socials manager bantering with Hakka, but the response in this thread has been *interesting* toward criticism for things like giving an apology for the wrong oshi mark for him but not for the chronic late/missing posts. It reminds me of the EN3 situation where people curious about where they were/when they were coming were basically told to sit down and shut up or "stop being le heckin' parasocial and watch the boys." If anyone wonders why things got tense since the start of 2023 - there is your answer.
Top comment has +1k upvotes Some sad fucks decided to bot the thread to the detriment of the stars community.
Also got multiple people trying to inject Rin into the sub as if she has something to do with Cover or this topic.
Its frustrating cause as a stars and holo fan I do want to see more of both in this subreddit as I love both but stars posts got downvote botted the last few months and now things are going the other way with stars posts getting upvote botted which is causing even more issues. And I won't blame 'unicorns' in that regard. Its just clashing cultures between those who are fans of female idols (which is the large majority in this subreddit) and those who are fans of male idols (Though I remember there being way more holostars posts when I first joined the subreddit in 2020 than now so I do think its partially unicorns). And many stars fan would be fine being in the stars reddit if it wasn't practically abandoned by moderators even longer than the holopro reddit has.
There's no clashing of cultures. Don't let yourself think that a few anonymous brigaders and schizos are at the helm of the boat.
There definitely is a clashing of culture though. There wouldn't be so many issues right now if there wasn't, we've been seeing it especially around the time Tempus VG debuted. And my point was that I didn't think a few brigaders and schizos are at the helm of the boat. Its just that they are taking advantage of this clash to stir up drama and make one side or the other look bad.
What the members of the hololive culture and holostars culture do isn't conflicting or overlapping each other. It's pure oshikatsu where ever you look. Hide the talent's face and you won't see a difference between both cultures. If there really were problems and conflicts at a cultural level you would see the same arguments in 2020 before holoEN and also on the discords servers. The only place that cultivated a culture of what EN fans refer as unicorns is /vt/. And if you find some of that outside of 4chan then it's an instance of containment breaking. Not an instance of a hololive fan "engaging too hard" in the hololive culture.
> you won't see a difference between both cultures This is where I disagree, at least on the EN side. StarsEN is very open to collabing outside of the HoloPro sphere, while HoloEN is known as a walled-garden who mostly keep to themselves. There was also a comment made by someone who claimed to be a Stars fan, [saying that Stars fan cares more about their "community" than the "content" of their oshi](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/14t5za9/are_posts_getting_shadowbanned/jr12m5d/?context=3), but I'm not sure if I want to believe them.
Idk why your reply got in my inbox but the thread's link doesn't work. (EDIT: seems fine now) >StarsEN is very open to collabing outside of the HoloPro sphere, while HoloEN is known as a walled-garden who mostly keep to themselves. You are talking about the decisions talents take in order to get more viewers and I'm talking about how the fanbase looks like. >10month old comment: [holostars fans] view their actual streams and music as vestigial "meta-media" and don't engage with it to the same extent that they engage with the social media side of things I don't agree with that poster. It's a stupid take. Content is equally appreciated in both fanbases and everyone knows this. EDIT: Both holostars and hololive have a big set of followers that don't engage with the content in the same way a regular chatter does. There is people that are fans of the community but don't spend much energy on the streaming content itself.
They are both idol focused but the main difference is just how much faster one section of the fanbase grew over the other. HololiveEN had such massive growth on its debut compared to holostars EN. This also meant that the holoEN community vastly overshadowed the starsEN community until tempus debuted though at the time there wasn't any hostility. The reason why I say there is a difference in culture is cause holoStars EN as a branch is still growing and trying to its place within the market while HoloEN branch has already found its place within the market. In that sense, a lot of starsEN fans are trying to get their oshis out into the spotlight anyway they can just like how early hololive fans did with their oshis (See the story of Aki's fans putting in a lot of effort to get their oshi seen by others). And the reason why there has been more hostility against stars lately than in the beginning is cause some of the more fervent and bad parasocial fans view starsEN talents as competition and taking away resources from their oshis despite being way smaller (See people accusing tempus HQ and VG being the reason it took 2 years to gen Holo EN gen3)
> how much faster one section of the fanbase grew over the other The holostar fanbase isn't a section of the hololive fanbase. It's its own thing. The people that are part of both fanbases could be described as a section, but they are a minority. Also, the hololive fanbase growth happened without the existence of holostars in both JP and EN branches. >The reason why I say there is a difference in culture is cause holoStars EN as a branch is still growing and trying to its place within the market while HoloEN branch has already found its place within the market And this is where we disagree strongly. Hololive is also still growing and trying to go beyond where it is. The fans of the girls share a massive list of unfulfilled dreams. And everyone is trying their best to get the spotlight. As I said, oshikatsu wherever you look. The reason for the hostility is very simple: there's no moderation. Bad apples are everywhere and whatever they think or say will never make sense.
>"stop being le heckin' parasocial and watch the boys." If anyone wonders why things got tense since the start of 2023 It certainly didn't help when they decided to lock down the subreddit for Tempus 2 where people that just only watch Hololive and are here for only Hololive suddenly couldn't post anything about Hololive, like about Ame's birthday for example. It also didn't help that for a while that some people tried to push StarsEN as HoloEN 3rd gen when people were wondering if there would be a new HoloEN gen or not. And a bit of a minor note of how people are also pushing calling HoloEN as ''LiveEN'' ever since StarsEN got revealed, even now people are still trying to do that.
> It certainly didn't help when they decided to lock down the subreddit for Tempus 2 where people that just only watch Hololive and are here for only Hololive suddenly couldn't post anything about Hololive, like about Ame's birthday for example. Yeah a lot of the comments around then were pretty nasty. Complain about how there is no thread to talk about Amelia's birthday? "Suck it up, parasocial." >It also didn't help that for a while that some people tried to push StarsEN as HoloEN 3rd gen when people were wondering if there would be a new HoloEN gen or not. Aye, same as above. Open hostility to people that just want they're interested in. >And a bit of a minor note of how people are also pushing calling HoloEN as ''LiveEN'' ever since StarsEN got revealed, even now people are still trying to do that. Holo members have been saying ホロメン/holo members for basically 6 years. I'm really resistant to people trying to alter the hobby. It's always demanding small changes and then big ones.
Their new Hololive app has a nice function that will prevent any of this from appearing there. A simple button that lets you decide if you want to see content about Hololive, Holostars, or both. Anyone who wants to see Holostars content can see it. Anyone who doesn't doesn't have to.
its honestly a little baffling that we don't have tags here, if people could just filter out holostars posts that'd probably alleviate a lot of the grievances
About HoloPlus: even if you add both branches to your account the spaces are separated. You don't see stars conversation in between the holo threads. It's either all holo or all stars. There's no "holopro" space yet. Only this subreddit lol
Even with that filter there are still people posting Holostars on the Hololive side of the app. It still requires mods to take care of those kinds of people.
That's why there is the block/report functionality. Unfortunately it still takes some work on our part to weed them out, but it should be possible.
Ima eat a bunch of downvotes for this, but I disagree that this is the main reason things got tense. If anything it was only one of many factors that contributed to the tensions we had back then, and I do not even think it was the biggest factor back then. We have to remember, the calls for EN3 came during a time where there was a big lull in Promise and Myth streams. The fact that a second wave of boys came out was used by bad actors to screech about favoritism which resonated with the broader fanbase because of this content drought and the fact we were expecting a third EN gen soon based on past trends. So you had the boys getting attacked and people blaming them for the lack of EN3, and then people going way over the line on the other side blaming it on "Unicorns" and talking down to others, which resulted in this heated division between the fans, more so then we had ever had before. I remember a few very obvious Anti Star's posters going ham at the time. And at the same time, we had people on the opposite end doing exactly what you stated, telling people to stop being parasocial or suck it up. And who knows whether these people were even fans or just tourists stirring drama. You remember how people took advantage of Suisei, whose to say that was not also occurring back then. But regardless it was two sides, that I had hoped were only minorities of each fanbase, igniting a culture war that were still seeing the effects of to this day. But it only got to this point because of the underlying situation EN was in. Tensions would not have erupted as nasty as they did if many other things had not happened previously to set the stage. Let me make it clear here though, I am not in any way blaming this on the Girls not streaming, I am just stating that the lack of streams was an obvious and huge factor in the unrest. I remember Kiara even going above and beyond at some point to stream more to make up for it, or maybe I am imagining that. At the same time, This subreddit has its own subset of users that cannot truly be considered emblematic of each fanbase. The amount of people who visit here is actually a lot smaller compared to the overall fanbase, so its not fair to ascribe what happens here to the greater masses.
> And who knows whether these people were even fans or just tourists stirring drama I've addressed this [before](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1btll9l/cover_corporation_announces_hololive_meet_2024/kxpvtxf/), but while there _were_ some people throwing hate around, the extremists were downvoted for the most part. Community regulars were very much involved in the discussion, as you can see people in those threads that are still posting in this subreddit to this day. Hell even the [mod](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j30245i/) was aware that there was some legitimate resentment building up, which is why they locked the subreddit after Tempus 2 was announced, which ended up being counterproductive. Helmite is correct that even from that period, there's been a trend of minimizing(or outright dismissing) legitimate issues coming from the audience that watches only the girls - which is the majority of this subreddit. [Linking](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j31fdff/) some [examples](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/104gw31/were_free/j37qaz4?context=3) here. The first commenter especially tried to present some legitimate grievances in a civil way, yet a lot of the replies to it were dismissive of what was arguably the community's silent majority sentiment at the time (and thus, got downvoted). One such [commenter](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j333guj/) is now a regular Gura anti here, spamming passive aggressive comments against her, so you can see how that might build certain perceptions among people (Funny to see them talk about entitlement at that time, and seeing them feeling entitled to Gura streams in the present day). There's [two comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j3414cs/) that [sum up](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/zztlx8/hololive_production_countdown_live_20222023/j2dsfgr/) the situation quite well. > Going to be honest, this is how you turn mild interest or apathy into something more negative. . > I'm so tired of people declaring our responsability as Hololive fans to "help" Holostars. I don't care about them, I will never care about them, and that's fine. I don't want to be constantly pressured into watching something I have no interest on. ^ this second sentiment in particular seems to be something that a lot of people seem unable to accept, even to this day, which is what I'd argue is the second main source of conflict after the abysmal moderation.
I'm confused as to what were in conflict about? I agreed with Helmite in that what he stated was a real issue, just that I feel it was not the main factor. Your absolutely correct also about the tourist thing. I am just making sure to cover all my bases, as there was obviously the possibility of tourists, even if they were not a majority. The minimizing of actual grievances has happened to both sides at different times. I also remember like you mentioned some people minimizing the issues of viewers of only the girls, which was at its height back during the period you linked to when Vanguard debuted. Nowadays I tend to see the opposite, where its Stars fans having concerns minimized, but some would call that karma for how some "fans" (I use quotation because if your attacking the girls or their fans I do not consider you a true Holostar fan. You do not have to drag the girls down to prop the boys up, and the opposite is also true.) acted back during the Vanguard debut, which you linked to perfectly. I know your someone who discusses in good faith, maybe I am just tired so I am not seeing something obviously wrong with my post. Was just wondering where your post was coming from. I appreciate how you always find sources to link back to.
Was a bit sleep deprived during that post, so I missed addressing a point in your earlier post, sorry about that confusion - > So you had the boys getting attacked and people blaming them for the lack of EN3 Almost all the criticism in that thread was against management (for their debut decisions) and the moderation team (for the subreddit lock). Comments attacking talents themselves generally tend to get downvoted here >!except when it's Gura, for some reason!<. The thread is still up, so it'd be nice if you could show me any upvoted comment that was attacking the talents themselves directly. > I am just stating that the lack of streams was an obvious and huge factor in the unrest > I agreed with Helmite in that what he stated was a real issue, just that I feel it was not the main factor. That's where I disagree. It was one issue for sure, but it was one of _several_ issues, lot of which were not specific to this subreddit but the direction of the EN branch as a whole. If lack of streams was the main issue then Advent debut would've resolved the problem. That's clearly not been the case. > screech about favoritism which resonated with the broader fanbase because of this content drought I don't think people needed any outsiders stirring anything to see favoritism for themselves, and it had absolutely nothing to do with content drought. People saw how Irys remodel kept getting delayed for so long [(Irys talked about how long she had to wait for it when she first teased it)](https://youtu.be/Xq9JWIf9zOY?t=4741) while two other remodels happened in record time. People saw [HoloJP streams](https://youtu.be/CQRsfjHB-BA?t=40) being banned from overlapping Uproar 3D debuts (which again, had the opposite effect, causing them to rescind that rule later on). People were already seeing signs of favoritism from up top in the buildup to Tempus 2 debut, and debuting them before EN3 simply confirmed their fears. Later on, this pattern continued. People heard from Irys about how [Project:Hope](https://youtu.be/Pef7swY44Zc) was left to flounder without direction since her debut and then saw management pouring resources into a [Visual Novel](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2687600/Doppelgnger/) for talents barely a year into their career. People saw how the holoen twitter changed after the merge, which got so bad even the talents themselves are now [speaking out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JowuOuoZns) about it. People saw Yagoo making a [terrible excuse](https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/16jm7w9/yagoo_explains_why_en_3_took_so_long_cover_qfr/) for their delay in debuting new HoloEN talents (which did not seem to apply to Tempus 1 or 2 for some reason). People saw the 9 month old Tempus 2 being [highlighted as "new debuts"](https://youtu.be/sf4WWLd9swI?t=1032) on the HoloPro 6th anniversary stream, while Advent - who had debuted just 2 months ago at the time - didn't even get a mention. Even now the people on reddit that are Holostars-only fans have a space of their own, while people who are Hololive-only don't. There is still favoritism happening from the highest level, but Hololive is a welcoming community so we accommodate these things to some extent. But every community has limits to how much abuse they'll tolerate. > Nowadays I tend to see the opposite, where its Stars fans having concerns minimized Parallel to the above, we did have [several](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/14tbjzf/someone_is_mass_downvotingreporting_posts_made_by/) [posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/15ajbbp/after_making_a_joke_between_starslive_my_post_was/) that [talked](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/14t5za9/are_posts_getting_shadowbanned/) about this issue. End result was that we can't exactly do anything about downvotes, it's just individual users making their opinion known - as is the case with almost all other subreddits - keep posting, keep talking about your oshis, ignore the downvotes. Automod issue was also resolved after it got abused to remove Hololive posts, but Holostars posts still devolve into [discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cu8peb/shinris_new_outfit/l4h7sby/) [about](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cuxazw/we_are_so_back/l4m6j36/) [downvotes](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cuyl35/koi_yourself/l4mpgm3/), inevitably ending up with flinging shit at Hololive-only fans. You can look at all the examples linked above, which affected the talents first and foremost. The "issues" that Holostars community has is isolated to this one subreddit, while issues about the EN branch or Hololive as a whole goes beyond that. There's an entire subreddit to discuss the Holostars without any of these downvotes or automod issues, but Holostars posts are still upvoted in this sub after the initial downvote barrage because the community as a whole is welcoming. But again, that tolerance has limits, especially when a lot of people are unable to accept the last point in my previous post. I honestly don't think anyone here would minimize legitimate concerns when it comes to the talents themselves and expect to get upvotes. If you have any examples to the contrary, I'd love to know.
Once again, thanks for the well thought out reply and your effort in linking back to sources is something I envy, in that you do it so well. The only thing I think we will not reach an agreement on is the stream drought. Tensions had already erupted and festered into a divide by the time Advent debuted, so even with their debut the damage had already been done and the divide made wide. Hence even with the overall problem solved the lingering resentment still manifested. Also I should have been clearer in what I meant when I said they blamed the boys. I meant the existence of them was a tool used against Star's as a whole, not that they were individually targeted. It would feel shitty to be constantly referenced as a reason EN3 did not happen sooner would it not? To constantly be used to attack management of no fault of their own. And I will also echo your correct in your final point from your previous post, it is not the Hololive girls fans job to support Stars, and I lament that earlier on there was a very aggressive push doing just that. We both know how that backfired spectacularly. Also I spoke about fan concerns, not talent concerns, which is also what you were talking about in your previous post no? Not sure where you got me saying anyone would diminish the talents concerns, that's something that I can say we handle well here, we always downvote that stuff regardless of which talent. Thanks for the insightful discussion. Its people like you and Helmite who I can engage in good faith discussion with that make it worth posting to reddit.
> the existence of them was a tool used against Star's as a whole, not that they were individually targeted True, I did see too many emotionally charged comments about numbers and business and what not.. and while "business wise" they may have points, I don't think anyone in this hobby would like their oshi's existence to be reduced to just "business", so that was certainly unfortunate. I do think management and the mod team were primarily at fault though, for not handling that particular debut (or the previous New Years' Countdown post) very well, causing the festering issues to flare up. > I spoke about fan concerns, not talent concerns, which is also what you were talking about in your previous post no? I'll clarify this, what I meant was concerns from fans about the direction the EN branch or Hololive as a whole was moving in, examples of the girls themselves talking about all the issues happening in 2022 etc. (which I've linked), and a pattern of comments critical of mods/Cover being equated as "troll comments" and getting deleted by the mods, while leaving a bunch of actual troll comments and buzzword spam intact. It's a far cry in seriousness from multi-post discussions about how "my post got downvoted on reddit", yet for a while such complaints were given due consideration as well, until people caught on to the fact that a lot of them weren't _listening_. It's always a pleasure to find someone willing to engage in good faith without throwing buzzwords around. Hopefully this exchange was fruitful to you as well, have a good day!
It's better to not project what goes down on reddit to the general community. Core fans have moved on to much better (and moderated) places to engage like discord and the "Following" tab of twitter, where everything holopro is welcome warmly as long as it shared in the channels that make sense. Talked more how this is a reddit only thing [on this stars](https://www.reddit.com/r/Holostars/comments/1cxbppc/about_the_current_situation_on_the_main_sub_and/l52dknl/) thread.
Another day another discord raid with bots.
Every single Holostars posts: Someone submit a Holostar content > Post and comments gets downvoted/upvoted to hell > People complain post is being botted and bring up unrelated comments > Post gets taken down > Repeat
Did you just try to rewrite the fact that before the botting get pointed out. About until a year ago, in every single star post, without fail, you can see people complaining about downvote then point to the "unicorn parasocial". And when you check their history, without fail it's user from okbh and holostar. How do you explain that.
Buddy, you three boys have a bunch of stolen sockpuppet accounts backing your asses with fake upvotes and likes. Half the goddamn accounts I've tracked as of yet have been manually deleted in post, not by admins or mods, but by you yourselves. You're third wheeling Helmir and a (Several words that are not allowed to be said in comments) tr*ll on twitter. I don't know if anyone should be trusting things about botting coming out of you guys' mouths when every positive comment in these threads get nuked and you guys have time and time again proven yourselves to have the means to perpetrate it.
This here is an average okbh person. What a cesspool does to a person.
jesus dude, even if it's real the fact that you're actually attempting to track the accounts is really sad. please for the love of god find something better to do with your time
I will never understand how some random redditors ended up mindbreaking you okbh posters so hard
>headcanon
*TIL I am Lex Luthor* Serious talk, as to not exacerbate whatever mental health problem you have. I suggest you go outside and touch grass. Also when you go back crying in that little okbh discord of yours, tell them that I send my regards.
> Buddy, you three boys have a bunch of stolen sockpuppet accounts backing your asses with fake upvotes and likes. I didn't see this one, but that's quite the claim. Also you've been on Reddit long enough to know that doesn't fly since Unidan.
mindbroken
Congrats, you managed to get almost all of them to reply to you. Quite the achievement, usually they limit themselves to just 1 or 2
😮💨
Twitter intern's priorities are fucked, maybe he should tweet stuff out on time more
I wish the twitter staff spent as much time doing their job as they did making these kinds of posts.
Can y’all just enjoy a funny post without schizo posting in the comments trying to stir up some drama for no reason.
Why is this subreddit this way :( No wonder no one from Hololive comes here.
"Ouro Kronii new outfit? who cares. Nanashi Mumei achieved 1M subs? nothingburger. SOME INTERN MESSING AROUND WITH HAKKA'S OSHI MARK??? NOT ON MY WATCH"
*Look him in the eye, aim no higher.* *Summon all the courage you require.*
*Then slowly and clearly aim your gun towards the sky*
wait why is this downvoted? It's literally the next line of the song
bro this sub is infected by bots, the downvotes are not of real people nor the upvotes
*sigh* maybe it's time for me to get off reddit
Fucked around and found out
No, no, the finding out part hasn’t happened yet. We still haven’t gotten the stream from the hospital room yet.
It was a calculated risk, but i didn't know i was that bad at math - Hakka, 2024
This is funnier after watching his zatsu where he spent like 10 minutes explaining his oshimark
Why would you get downvoted for this?
Stars posts attract warring botnets. Upvotes and downvotes are both massively skewed by them.
I can only imagine Hakka replied not really thinking through what would happen if they accept. What really needs to happen though is this whole thing needs to be a Hologra episode.
Not sure why I got down votes. Just imagine Hakka getting ready to duel only for A Chan to walk out as his opponent. If it's a combo battle have Axel back up Hakka until Nodoka appears and Axel just immediately concedes.
its unfortunate that the holostars equivalent of hologra was stopped a year or so ago Edit: turns out I was mistaken
What are you talking about? The [last one](https://youtu.be/paqMT0bGL68) was a month ago and the [one before that featured the EN boys](https://youtu.be/B1clJQARhQ8).
Oh wow, I'm surprised. I heard from holostars fans on Twitter that it was shuttering around the same time they were talking about being restricted to more standardized merch. Good go hear that it's not the case.
It was stopped as a weekly series like Hologra is. They still do animated shorts for special events like Uproar's 2nd anniversary live and for the Super Expo, but Starcolle doesn't exist as an actual Hologra equivalent at this point.
Stars Collection did stop, but they are getting [these 3D anime episodes from time to time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1clJQARhQ8). It's been a leaner year for them. But the upcoming concert was a big success and I feel more things should be coming to them if they stay consistent and more EN members get their 3D. It's good that they are in a unique position in the market and that their fanbase is supportive.
This comment sections upvotes/downvotes are wack. Some really inconspicuous stuff getting absolutely buried for some reason.
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If the pattern was more clear I'd agree, but it's absolutely everything that's getting odd votes. If it was clearly certain types of comments that was incurring it then it'd be easier to tell which group it was coming from, but everything from pro-live, pro-stars to even anything completely outside the argument is getting targeted.
It means there are clearly bots being thrown into the mix, but they can still single out replies to push to the top (or bottom). The karma change rate is clearly quite linear in that regard. Just observation though. I feel that you can just cook up a themed dish or do fanart to support your oshi but this is quite something else.
If we go down the line of there being bots, the origin and intention of the bots is obfuscated by their indiscriminate nature. Even among the comments that have been pushed to the top, you have messaging among them that's conflicting to each other (this tracks amongst prior posts this has happened to as well). If the person/group initiating the vote manipulation was from a certain "side" in this internal cultural dispute the community has been having, the logical assumption would be that there would be a prevailing narrative being put forwards that would be in some way supportive of their own views. There's also the possibility that there's multiple groups each doing their own vote manipulation on the sub and we're just seeing the fallout of their ideological dispute, it could even be a group/individual deliberately being random just to shit-stir and cause controversy (admittedly if we're assuming it's botting I sort of lean towards this idea), but we currently don't have a strong indication for the background or intention of the vote manipulation yet other than the sort of posts they keep targeting so I'd say we should keep finger pointing to a minimum for now.
tbf bettel is probably one of the more actually supported holostars, afaik he at least regularly gets above 2k viewers and sometimes hits 3k. His ceiling is still holostars small, but for its size his fanbase at least watches him. The upvotes here still beat his average live viewers though which is very funny. Its obviously raided or botted to hell.
>as much effort to support their oshi normally. that's supposing whoever is doing it is an actual fan and not someone that does it to stir up drama. They are just botting upvotes/downvotes and that's enough to see people go at each others throat
Good for Hakka for memeing this.
WE RIDE AT DAWN BROTHERS, BE READY
Get the popcorn, this is gonna be good
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Getting the feeling I'm out of the loop on something. I just thought this was a fun little twitter interaction ToT
There has been a group of people either botting/brigading Stars posts to the top of the sub or deciding they're a good place to use as proxy wars. It was the new flavor of the day after automod was axed.
Appreciate the explanation, I felt like that gif of a guy walking into a disaster with pizza
Yeah it's fine. My general recommendation for people that don't want to get super informed and engage in trying to dispel any of the stuff to basically just avoid it as best as possible. There is a *lot* of misinformation that gets pushed around by the uninformed, people who actively want to hurt the reputation of Hololive, and folks that make money off Youtube clicks.
Not shaming you OP just whoever is botting this post. It's just really obvious this amount of upvotes in this timeframe is not normal. Either to bury the Kronii post or for the sake of more drama or something more. Either way enjoy and support your oshis 👍
There wouldn’t be any drama if you wouldn’t passive aggressively post under each one trying to start some botting narrative.
Brigaders using bots has been hard confirmed, it's not a narrative. It's not drama. It's just some schizo wasting their money on an imaginary culture war.
it may very well be some schizo going renegade and doing this, but comments like above still dont help. this thread is filled with ppl blaming stars fans, or jumping to conclusions just because a post has a certain amount of upvotes, innocent comments being mass downvoted. shit’s shameful. we need to just get along.
That's why everyone needs to figure out what they can do to help. Calling the botting a narrative helps as much as pointing fingers at OP or at the stars community. Drama and flaming is exactly the reaction the schizos want to see. People should stop feeding and rewarding the antis.
Don't mind them, plenty of people in this subreddit trying to stir up drama under any stars related post both by botting downvotes and botting upvotes, the best thing is to just ignore the unusual amount of upvotes/downvotes and all the comments talking about that
There are people in this sub who accuse basically any post involving the boys of being botted. It's best to just ignore them.
The bot has been confirmed. They botted so hard at first that it triggered reddit's site-wide vote manipulation filtering on a couple of threads. And those removed threads were still getting hundred of upvotes after removal. Pointing fingers IS bad and we can see people learned to not do that. It should be understood by everyone that the brigading won't stop until we get real moderation on these official subreddits
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It's not something new, people were complaining about official twitter account blattant holostars favoritism months ago already, it just didn't change, and a lot of people stopped carring about that account because how unreliable it is. I mean nowoday it's more a star fan ran account rather than an official one.
Any proof of this? Because looking at the account, it's 90% Hololive. I don't see favoritism.
90% and it's missing a good chunk, if normaly they would do their job properly it would be 99% hololive, just because there are more stuff going on, that's the reality. And honnestly it's favoritism from the simple fact that i was originaly the holoLIVE EN account, not the holopro one and it got hickjacked for the only purpose to promote da boiz.
The easy answer to that is, because StarsEn debuted later. I don't think you know what favoritism is if you think 10% is that. And I don't see how it's a bad thing to promote the boys, they're a business. Of course they'd want to promote everyone. You good? Like highjacked? It's not that deep.
They had created another account for them, and closed it. But honnestly i'm not hopping to convince a beggar anyway.
Yeah. They really show their true faces.
You got evidence that this is an attempt to change a narrative, or are you just upset someone found this interaction funny?
Do you really think all brigaders left? Every thread was getting nuked from reports. Artists that liked reddit couldn't even share OC properly. Now that automod got fixed, the brigaders didn't leave. And their actions on this unmoderated space are causing tensions in the userbase. Not a great moment to be posting antagonistic comments.
I'm not being antagonistic, I'm asking a genuine question
It can't exactly change the narrative unless people are on 320 by 240 resolution monitors...you'd see both posts. Kronii's complaints didn't magically disappear. edit: also don't say malicious bias. The bias in this case would be to **Bae** if you actually look at the timeline of what was going on at the time. Your own bias with holostar is forgetting that your argument would go towards the wrong person! This is not something Kronii said and it looks terrible.
what with Bae?
If you say this is all a malicious bias, then you have to remember this post? Right here? *Isn't at all something that was being referenced* You can check the other thread and what was actually being talked about was that Kronii's outfit reveal was tweeted I think 2 hours before her stream. *In comparison to Bae's being tweeted 3 days before* The problem with calling this out as malicious bias, is that the OP's post is not the one adjacent to Kronii's incident, it's Bae's outfit reveal. This all happened 2-3 weeks ago. This is only adjacent on this subreddit, which the management didn't post to to begin with. Calling it malicious bias is going past what Kronii said and because of misconstruing timelines, it's saying Management is bias in a completely different way.
How does that account work and who is behind it, a person/group of people? Will a person tweet as a list given to that one by talent managers, or will anyone with access to the account do it?
Someone did their job and it turned into a malicious bias?
Oh man Hakka is gonna fucking dies
I dunno, did y’all see him [fight off that giant scorpion?](https://www.youtube.com/live/9gtg7l90fxk?si=tAjvAoEwwY_OKvfF&t=40m36s) I think he has this in the bag.
Notice: Hakka will be taking a break for 3 months due to spork injury
It would be funny if they play Fighting game as a duel
Yeah probably the old FB admin currently manages their Twitter account
Standin here, I realize, you are just like me, trying to make history~!
missing oportunity for Hakka to say: "according to the RULES OF NATURE!"
Hakka: Nah I'd win
And here we go again ruining another innocuous post. Is it so hard for this fandom to not be an embarrassing circus for five minutes?
they should post it on Holostars subs, oh wait, more internet points here.
Thanks for the example of the type of dumb shit I was referring to.
It's a subreddit for both Hololive AND Holostars
"Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions" - Hakka probably
It's finally happen. Hololive biggest drama, I'm literally shaking and crying rn
hakka pushed back, and the official hololive english account responded in kind, to hakka's surprise.
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Bruh their socmed team need more people now than blatant unwarranted firing. Their socmed team definitely is being bogged down by unrelated work outside of socmed stuff.
Their socmed team is biased as fuck. When they fuck up something with boys they apologize. When they fuck up something with girls... silence
recency bias
Yagoo: We settle this like all modern Japanese duels: jetpacks and swords!
Mythological beings, crazy in the head people, lewd/horny, dudes being dudes, and office workers jousting with the boys/girls. There is nothing normal about this agency. But lack of normality is what makes it... **..Normal.**
Yago approved culling of Stars. I nominate Rin Penrose as the ref because we know she'll be absolutely unfair and unscrupulous, favouring whichever side gives her more money
>Rin This is the Hololive sub.
God forbid we can't mention an outside vtuber
Certainly don't have reason to do so, no. Hololive members on average are vastly more popular than people outside. A lot of fans aren't going to know outside vtubers and really there isn't any point in giving them advertisement of their existence in this of all places anyway.
That's like saying you can't mention Dokibird or have a post *with* Doki in it for whatever reason for the simple fact that they aren't Holo. *Mentioning* a non-Holo vtuber and thinking of it as advertisement is such an incredible stretch
If she's not doing a collab with someone working with Cover there isn't any reason to bring her up in the Hololive subreddit just because she's your bestie.
Good ol John Vtuber™️
Probably empire twitter guy.
They forgot his hole