I'm incredibly worried about the protestors after this is all over. Hopefully none of them get in trouble during/throughout; but imagine if the authorities crack down with cell phone data, public transport information, credit cards, etc.
I think a lot of the protestors have been trying to avoid things, where masks, etc. I'm sure at the end of this there will be amnesty for the protestors and no long term effects, imagine the international outcry?
this is really scary to think about. I really appreciate now more the sacrifice they are all making. I have been thinking more about personal data & privacy with datawallet, but I don't think being able to permission data would really help when the chinese governments systematically abuses citizens' rights.
The videos looks more like anarchist protestors trying to crack down on the police ( who themselves have a family and are just trying to do their jobs )
There's video of the police planting sticks on handcuffed ppl and those ppl end up in hospitals with head trauma. China is known for this shit. If you support them. Fuck you
Edit: the video https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/08/article/hk-police-deny-framing-beating-protester/
Typical of lemmings to be unable to follow the discussion, change topic and then make personal pointless emotional attacks 😂, god forbid you get a chance to be a leader and decide for all of us how life should be in Hong Kong
Ok then, Do you live in hong kong? Whats your point of view? I literally gave you a video of what their doing, Lemming. Or do you just deflect and name call like a lemming yourself?
Ah now we are being less antagonistic and more open to both sides of the coin, we can have a discussion
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cohdoy/thousands_of_hong_kongers_sing_do_you_hear_the/ewm0eun/
Well then it is sad to see these 2 sides collide. I feel like everyone should be able to be free from authoritarian govts. And i feel like china is that govt. Right now. When the ppl started protesting and the govt. sent triads in, and then the military. Something is wrong. China is wiling to kill to take back hk.
On one hand, they are appealing for the amnesty of those outlaws. One another hand, they keep disturbing the society and doing things violent and illegal...
For the government, there is no possibility to pardon these behaviors, otherwise the people will believe that they could fight for their rights with any evil methods and won't be blamed as well.
Amnesty of outlaws as in “retracting riot characterisation of protests”? People are protesting for the government to retract such characterisation because of how the law was phrased, that “taking part” in a riot (and other elements) is an offence. What they are protesting for, is that this is a matter for the court to decide (whether or not there is a riot), but not for the government (the executive branch) to determine.
Not to mention that some of the protests (eg 612 protest) was actually covered in the no objection letter issued by the HK police. Whether there is a breach of peace before or after the HK police arrived at the scene should be a matter for the court to decide.
Considering a group of ppl fighting for their freedoms only to have 10k+ get mowed down by tanks and still have a govt. Refuse it ever happened? Im grateful i saw the pictures of those scumbags getting tied to buses and set on fire. It doesnt take much to find out what really happened all these years later. Fire with fire, especially when it comes to dictatorships
Breaking the law demands justice. Some of those people assaulted police officers, destroyed and defaced public property, surround and beat up anyone that disagrees with or argues with them. Those specific people need to face the consequences.
I hope the police find these people and distinguish them from the peaceful protestors, anyway they can.
In what way is the law unjust? The extradition bill did not pass, and it was introduced to bring a murderer to justice. I struggle to see how violence and crimes will convince Carrie Lam to do anything in their favour. If she does then she proved violence and crimes will get people what they want. If that is the case, then Hong Kong is screwed.
The law is unjust because it is a tool for China to capture any dissidents, whether Chinese or foreigners, in Hong Kong and extradite them to China. It is not to bring the murderer to justice because Taiwan already proclaimed that they would not extradite the guy even if the law is passed, since it infringes their sovereignty.
Edit: spelling
Taiwan just pardoned the murderer, Good job.
The criminal who killed an innocent girl and her unborn baby successfully avoided the sentences because of political reasons! Good for him!
This could have been dealt with on a one-time only single case basis passed by the legco (the equivalent of parliament in Hong Kong) . Carrie Lam and her administration refused to discuss with Taiwan on possible one time extradition in accordance with current law, dragged the matter and create artificially such urgency to pass the extradition as the government drafted. Not to mention that they also deny the Legco (the parliament) rights and usual practice of forming a legislative committee to examine the bill (1) as any other bills in Hong Kong and (2) as any other sensible legislature/parliament in the world will do with respect to a controversial bill.
Carrie lam and her team denied the girl ( and her parents) from the justice they deserve.
No it was Carrie Lam who pardoned the murderer. She refused to consider all other currently available options (ie a special case by case basis type deal) to extradite the murderer and insisted on passing this controversial law instead, leading to the current chaos.
The bill didn't pass, and it won't pass. Everyone knows that. It has just become an excuse for students to purge as a summer activity, knowing well that there will be no consequences to any law they break
Edit: this is a pretty bold metaphor, so I just wanna make clear that I believe this metaphor applies to the few but very active members of the protestors, I also believe there are a lot of peaceful protestors out there, whom I don't mind.
The bill is still tabled at the legco. Although the session has lapsed, I hope you could see that this reflects the government blatant disregard of the rules and procedures prescribed in express provisions. People (myself inclusive) because the government has been ignoring procedural justice when lodging bills and avoiding discussion of matter in a constructive manner in the legco by bypassing all the currently existing and prescribed rules that are there to ensure procedural justice.
Protest pretty much the most humble way to voice our opinion to the government. People protest not only for the bill in itself, but also the fact that people do not believe and know that the legco (parliament) will not be able to stop the bill from passing. Not to mention the administrative tactics they use to disqualify both elected legco members (MP equivalent) and candidates just by virtue of what they or even their party had previously said.
1 million people marched out with one single purpose on 9 June. The government issued a press release within 3-4 hours after the march, saying that they will continue the 2nd reading (3rd reading is actually procedurally right after) and will very probably immediately passed the bill. The blatant disregard of public opinion was so appalling I could not believe I was real, and that it was Hong Kong.
>1 million people marched out with one single purpose on 9 June. The government issued a press release within 3-4 hours after the march, saying that they will continue the 2nd reading (3rd reading is actually procedurally right after) and will very probably immediately passed the bill. The blatant disregard of public opinion was so appalling I could not believe I was real, and that it was Hong Kong.
THIS
change as stupid as it sounds cannot be achieved without blood and tears
The bill is still on the agenda of LegCo and with the support of pro Beijing camps in LegCo the bill can definitely pass. As to breaking laws without consequences, you can refer to the triad gangster/ terrorists in Yuen Long, North Point and Tsuen Wan, who to this day still haven’t been charged with any crimes after their indiscriminate attacks on HK citizens.
In ever region on earth, these behaviors are supposed to be blamed no matter what're the reasons. Why shouldn't they face punishments? And why should people out of this chaos abide by these disturbances?
I know the police should be punished for abuse of power. That's why countries have imposed restrictions on riot gear exports to HK, as they've seen the abuses. I think we're getting off topic though.
Freaking pathetic, bunch of Hong Kong citizens were beaten up in the subway, the citizens that were being hit mistakenly by the uncontrolled cops, injuring protesters with excessive force like we have all seen from different footage, yet not even one mainlander chose to believe or question why was that happening.
And that one idiot knowing that he will be the black sheep by wearing pro-police t shirt and trying to look cool being provocateur ended up getting his ass beaten, and now the whole 1.4 billion Chinese people are furious and feel attacked because Hong Kong rioters are disrespecting China.
smh, what else can people do at this point. #玻璃心
Yea im also pissed at mainlanders who only think we are trying to become independent. Always saying protesters were violent and we should go to hell. Who cares just block them if you see them
In HKer’s perspective : we were peaceful . China called us rioters. We became violent. China will still say we are rioters. The frontline doesn’t want to be all beaten up and take no actions to fight back, while still being called violent. Police and government taught us peaceful protest have no use.
Last night, i know it was violent. People are scared of under-covers, and some people kicked the Chinese press guy, i know that. But there were also people who try to stop it.
Someone beat the police because the police pushed down a girl who was alone, and protester tries to save the girl from being arrested , that was instinctive act to save someone who didn’t do anything illegal.
In my perspective, all protesters are teammates. Sometimes they did bad things. We forgive. And move on. Because we unite.
It’s the only way to win this.
Because 5 cents never say bad things to their own kind, why should we? ;)
If the peaceful protestors do not condemn and distance themselves from violent ones, the public will have to lump you together with them, and characterise the whole group by the behaviours of the most extreme elements.
“The other side does it too” is not a good excuse. If HK is a society of rule of law , use the law to fight excessive forces by the police. It is slower but much less risky for all. If you don’t think HK has rule of law anymore, what is the point of starting the whole protest again?
It’s funny to say use the law to fight the police and all the injustice, because the government and legislative council and the police are all on one side. Many representatives helped to pass laws and bills that does no good to us at all, (etc. trillion $ constructions) meanwhile there isn’t enough reps. that can stop it. (We will see in the upcoming election)
We know law won’t do it’s thing until we win, so far it only been used to arrest protesters.
Plus hk police have not been wearing their IDs for 2 months, that is already illegal from the beginning, and guess what happened? Nothing. And Carrie Lam is protecting them, so they became more and more violent, because they don’t need to take responsibility.
LOL the “trillion” is exaggeration.. most people don’t care about such expensive constructions, and this is not the only case.
The M+ museum is still not done yet, ffs they are trying to act like they care about arts & culture lol
A part of The West Kowloon Culture District was sinking recently.
Gov. want to build an artificial island :
https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1097704/hong-kong-to-build-79b-artificial-island
And we never know why they need to spend so much money on it, and how much actually is for the construction and how much goes to someone’s pocket secretly
People have learnt from Umbrella Movement that occupying the streets doing nothing for months will obviously fail, thats why they are changing & evolving.
Carrie Lam is good at ignoring problems and wait for people to chill out, then keep doing what she wants to do (she has a long history of doing that)
That’s why the protest cannot stop, she is just waiting for it to die out
Seems like peace and violence did not work, maybe they just need to keep doing any kind of protest for months and don’t let it stop. We will see what will happen.
What is the endgame? Complete destruction of Hong Kong?!
Lam will be gone sooner or later. Start negotiating, stop the violent shit. Sooner or later you’ll get someone killed.
Negotiating is also a trap, if you recall umbrella movement again. Not too long after negotiation the whole movement ended and failed.
Well 6 people already suicide to protest, so we already lost lives
Calling out idiots isn't a personal attack, I just dont want to waste my time. Not worth it for people like you who are either paid, or doing the same job for free due to indoctrination, idiocy, or both.
Not to mention that it’s a common thing that CCP does, is to have their own people to blend into the crowd and stir things up so they get an advantage , and starting to make fake news from it
Even police are disguised as a protester, I will not doubt that some one is trying to cause chaos so protesters fall the the disadvantage side. but i will not deny that last night was violent. It is a fact.
The protestors have strategies, and the police has them too. Fair game.
The undercover cops can agitate all they want. The dozens of angry mobs kicking the shit out of the poor guys aren’t all undercover cops, are they? Those people freely chose to commit inhumane, violent crimes last night. Whatever the other side did cannot justify that.
You won't actually get them to respond. They block or ignore when you point out their hypocrisy. As someone who's read the entire extradition bill and the revisions, when you actually tried to ask about their problems with the bill, back when they were still pretending that's what this is all about, they totally shut down. They've been beating up old men and women long before they had their asses handed to them in Yuen Long, but no one wants to know about that.
1.4bn people are furious because the thugs have no decency and humanity. Torturing a guy for 4 hours in plain sight. Blocking the ambulance. That’s all the doings of your comrades.
well, 7 million people are also furious because the government AND THUGS have no decency and humanity. Thousands of ordinary citizens and protesters were physically and mentally tortured for 2 months. No actions taken by the government and the only thing you lovely central government does is twisting and promoting fake news and put the blame on the non existing western countries and falsely claiming HK people asking for independent. That's what your COMRADES been up to.
meh.
I don’t think most HK citizens are with you on what the protestors did in the airport last night.
You have a pretty funny definition of torture. The protestors would have faced much heavier police response in USA and many other western countries. Want to check out how the yellow-vest protestors were treated in France?
I wouldn’t be surprised that CIA play a role in some way but I don’t think it or other foreign powers is the deciding factor. CIA is well known for sponsoring unrest in a number of countries. China is certainly on USA’s list of strategic rivals (enemies).
And saying that the protestors on the same moral plane with the Beijing government doesn’t exactly put you in a good light.
If the protestors don’t want to be labelled as pro-independence, lay off on stuff about the flags and defacing the national emblem.
>I don’t think most HK citizens are with you on what the protestors did in the airport last night.
Likewise, I bet not all 1.4 billion Chinese folks are in favor of what the government has done to Hong Kong.
>You have a pretty funny definition of torture.
It is not funny, physical tortured can be "4 hour" like you said... though not sure where you got this from, but can also be only a few minutes like how the pigs done on the street. Mental torturing is real too, you don't live there and you won't understand how people are scared of getting close to cops and have to be aware of what color of clothing they gotta be wearing to avoid getting into problem... this is so unnecessary yet real, mental distress in long term is a fucking tortured.
>The protestors would have faced much heavier police response in USA and many other western countries. Want to check out how the yellow-vest protestors were treated in France?
I don't care about your whataboutism, if this is happening in Hong Kong, then lets talk about Hong Kong and not how other countries would have handled the situation.
>I wouldn’t be surprised that CIA play a role in some way but I don’t think it or other foreign powers is the deciding factor. CIA is well known for sponsoring unrest in a number of countries. China is certainly on USA’s list of strategic rivals (enemies).
Stay paranoid about foreign interference, keep dreaming about it. Y'all nationalist pride must feel so attacked and as always trying to put the blame on someone else instead of being self-critical and think of WHY WOULD THIS BE HAPPENING IN HONG KONG. yeah yeah, foreign influence yeah.
>And saying that the protestors on the same moral plane with the Beijing government doesn’t exactly put you in a good light.
>
>If the protestors don’t want to be labelled as pro-independence, lay off on stuff about the flags and defacing the national emblem.
I insist extreme nationalist education is dangerous as heck; they are protesting against the Hong Kong and Chinese Central Government, they are expressing their discontent and what, would you expect them to wave the Chinese flag and kiss the emblem why raging against the government? And since when waving another country's flag automatically turns you into pro-independence? don't forget HK is a diverse place unlike China. fix your broken logic man, at this point if you still think being a nationalist and "flag defender" is more important than people's lives, you are broken.
Beijing labels the protestors pro-independence because they have given them plenty of reasons. I don’t particularly care. I don’t even consider myself that patriotic.
The violent protestors put themselves, those around them and the general public at risk and have caused the taxpayers a lot of money. Those I do care about.
Mainlanders all like to say “if you are in another country (USA) you would have been shot with real bullets”
But they missed out the next bit
When people succeed, most of the protesters will be released and the police who illegally use force excessively will be sentenced to jail.
But is it going to happen in China or HK? Don’t think so.
there is a reason why protesters want everyone to burn together, is that most young generation already lost hope with the future.
Plus young gen have nothing to lose honestly, the ones that are against the protest are the ones who have property & enough money so they don’t give a damn, they only care about economy
young gen is struggling to survive in hk basically.
U gotta look up what problems we are having here, especially 150 mainlanders come to settle in hk, they are trying to dilute us. They get so much benefits while young gen gets nothing. We are angry with the government for a long time seriously
It’s near impossible to buy a house in hk. Check or google you will find out hk is crappy as sh*t in many ways, like highest living costs, highest property cost etc.
gov is trying to get rid of cantonese teaching as well, how can we be happy? Children gets penalized for speaking canto in some school.
Many things are f up, the extradition bill is just the last straw
I thought we had 50 yrs before becoming like China, bro
If the young people feel they have nothing to lose, it justifies destroying everyone’s livelihood?! Is this the democratic value you are fighting for?
The social problems are long-standing and complex to solve. If HK economy crashes, the government has fewer resources to address these problems. How is that helpful to anyone?
because mainlanders see even more force by their local PD, and think hongkies are being entitled... because from their perspective HKPD is handling protesters with baby gloves.
And you can't deny there are a lot of anti-mainlander localists within the movement and they tend to be the loudest and most violent ones... which tends to get picked up on Camera. And the irony is your post really shows why the mainland has no more sympanthy for your movement. Two guys were literally tied up, beaten, searched, stripped, and humiliated for simply being mainlanders, and you call them glass hearts... and yet you still don't see why they don't support you Hongkies anymore.
Your movement is filled with people like you who don't see big picture. Who don't know how to play the game. and the leaders are being pussies and hiding behind anonymity and continue to claim it to be a "leaderless" movement. Face it, your leaders are inept and scrubs. And that's why the CCP will play you all like a grand piano and become the heroes in the end.
HAHAHA, I was about to stop answering more from this thread but people like you triggers me.
Without a doubt violence is not the answer for neither sides, and it should never be, and I gotta say the protesters fucked up yesterday because the anger won them over, but please don't forget you lovely central government started playing dirty, cooperating with gangs and having cops disguised as protesters to mess up with real protesters. Why wouldn't they be suspicious if another round of the same shit happen to then? Though again, it does not justify their actions, but yet comparing to what have happened to the Hong Kong citizens in the past two months, you know who has been hurt more. (i hope)
And my dude, mainland has never had sympathy for this movement, nor they will ever want to listen or question WHY is this happening. YOUR central government is blind and paranoid as fuck with self-constructed stories about western influences and pro-independence, your twisted news grab that only little piece of news that perhaps can be beneficial for their propaganda agenda and magnify it to brain wash the entire nation, guess who is not seeing the big picture here? YOU AND YOU FELLOW MAINLANDERS; This is not the end yet, and you can't dictate who will end up playing who, but as for now I am sure YOU are one puppet that is being played by the CCP. Open your eyes.
>Two guys were literally tied up, beaten, searched, stripped, and humiliated for simply being mainlanders
That's actually crazy, i haven't heard of that :o ! Do you have a source on it?
It did happen , but more details is :
One of the dude is from a China Press but he carries a wooden stick (weapon) in his bag and he was taunting the crowd and said “i support police, you guys can beat me up now”
The crowd got angry and started to search his bag , and found out he does not have a legal press ID / permission. Beating him does not look good , and protesters are starting to realized they got baited and made a wrong decision the day after.
Another one is a China police, crowd got angry because hk police have been hiding their police ID and people suspect China Police is blended into the hk police.
This is like adding gasoline on fire.
And also very common dirty trick that CCP does, they act as the pity one so now they gain advantage from this incident.
Not to mention a teenager was beaten up by 10 gangs from China (who posted on social media saying they are coming to beat hkers up. )
Not sure if police arrest anyone so far.
On the other side, the Chinese Press who got beaten was celebrated by a crowed who dressed in a red tshirt, got flowers and all that. Looks like they are celebrating their success of playing the pity game. Lmao
Wow. Taunting the mob is never a smart idea, so expect to get beaten up. I'm not advocate of violence actually I'd prefer if people didn't. But the one that looks for trouble might find it. Idek what to say. Yikes
funny enough the phrase "I support Police, you can beat me up now" became viral for Mainlanders, as a majority of them doesn't support this protest.
So yea one incident will immediately became news material for China media to stir up even more hate and misunderstandings
[The demands are](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49317695):
1. Complete withdrawal of the extradition bill
1. Withdrawal of the "riot" description used about the 12 June protests
1. Amnesty for all arrested protesters
1. An independent inquiry into alleged police brutality
1. Universal suffrage for the Chief Executive and Legislative Council elections
It kinda does, since so many protesters were arrested just to shut them up and charged with random shit it's hard to really determine who did what and it would be very difficult for any police officer to convince the general public that the crimes were genuine. It'd be much better for peace to forgive and try to forget
In 1977, HK police stormed the newly founded Independent Commission Against Corruption office. The governor of HK gave in and agreed to not to pursue corrupt police officers for past crimes.
Obviously law can be bent to achive a goal, especially if public safety at large is at stake.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/02/25/1977-2009-2017-brief-history-hong-kong-police-union-action/
Now, maybe i've just been around people more, but in my experience it leaves them really bitter and resentful if you punish them for being mad at you, especially when you punish them with something like what they were mad at you for in the first place
Protester: "You're oppressing our people and taking away our ability to be heard, you need to fix this."
Judge: "Cool, jailtime for you then"
Protester:"THE FUCK DID I JUST SAY?"
You haven't made a coherent argument, either. Which protesters, exactly, committed "serious crimes" for which the city could not sleep at night, were they to go free?
Are you kidding me right now? Protestors who threw molotovs? Protestors who flung bricks at government buildings? Protestors who infiltrated the legislative council building and vandalized it? Protestors who assaulted police officers? These are just a few of the serious crimes committed.
Are you guys seriously this delusional to think that ALL of the arrested protestors are innocent? You guys are so tunnel visioned that it’s not even funny. Lawbreakers don’t get released just because you think they did crimes that aren’t worth it to prosecute against or because you demand them to be released.
Actually, i agree that who committed crime should be prosecuted. However, since police was sending spy into the protester, and they already admitted it btw.
We cannot know whether it is police startegy or is it really the protester. If the police was involved in encourging the protester to break law, is it not a type of entrapment? Did it stick to the course of justice?
Besides, the whole violent thing is due to the incompetent of carrie lam !!!!!!
Yes, and that is why I agree that trials need to and will be held, as well as an independent investigation, but I do not agree that all protesters should be released, as stated by the protesters.
Well....
I think at least, we should have an open and fair trial. If turn out that their behavior is for the greater good for the society. I think may be lighter punishment should be applied.
for example, charging for vandalization instead of riot.
I think another thing that we should pay attention is that police sent spy into the protester. It have a good chance that they took part in encouraging the protester to do violent act. If it is true, It is a kind of entrapment, and totally unprofessional.
At last, I want to say again
FUCK YOU DIRTY COPS
Name one? Really? Do you know their names? Cause I sure as hell don't. I'm only telling you what I've seen and what the world has seen.
Their names are irrelevant to the point.
The point is that there are protestors who have committed crimes and should be prosecuted against. So the demand that ALL protestors be released is absurd.
And you still have not provided any counter arguments.
Well since you have no specififcs, it's hard to argue. We night even agree on a small handful of protestors who should not receive clemency, but we'll never know, since this is your argument, but lacking *any* specifics.
What? Knowing their names and not knowing their names is completely irrelevant to the point as I've said before. The point is they DID the things I said above.
Yes it's hard for you to argue because you have no argument. I've provided many examples. You have provided nothing.
It absolutely should not apply to all the arrested protesters. Hong Kongers are stubborn and afraid to admit that many of the protesters are delusional.
I'm assuming common sense applies, and amnesty wouldn't apply for serious crimes that were incidental to the protest. Like if a protester stabbed an officer for no reason, they're not getting amnesty.
Vandalising buildings, that's part of the protest. Scuffles with riot police, you have some grey areas there.
If Carrie accepted the conditions with such common sense caveats (an impartial committee to do the assessments), I expect that would well received.
At this juncture, the 5 demands are just posturing for violent thugs to find justification for continuing senseless violence, regardless of how sympathetic or cute the meme looks. There are no longer peaceful protestors in Hong Kong. There are violent thugs and less extreme, non-violent protestors who actively support the violent thugs.
1) the bill must be withdrawn;
The bill is dead, as dead as the 2003 anti-sedition bill.
2) the chief executive must resign; she is a lame duck anyway. Who would want her job anyway?
3) the government must retract its characterisation of the violent clashes as “riots”;
That is not a definition by the HK government, but a legal term defined in the Public Order Ordinance by the British. I thought the protests are to uphold the rule of law in HK? Why demanding the executive branch to override the judicial branch?
4) there must be a full independent inquiry into the actions of the police.
HK has an established and independent branch as a check-and-balance for its law enforcement, i.e. the IPCC. The committee has several ongoing investigations about recent police actions
5) everyone arrested in respect of the clashes must be unconditionally freed.
What sort of rule of law is this? Do you really want the chief executive to dictate who to be prosecuted? That is less prosecutorial independence than in the mainland legal system.
I thought that is why the protestors are so against the extradition bill in the first place?
arrested protestors were charged with rioting within a week of the protest, while the triads who attacked protestors (caught on camera) have not been charged with anything for three weeks
Well said, if everyone can have a search about the 'game theory' it really makes the whole protest seems pointless, the end game is hk belongs to China . It sounds bad, I know. But I want hk people know that u are ultimately inflicting damage on your self and you have no one but urself to blame in future. Also please note media is bias, it have big influence on how people think and shows how scary herd mentality is. Please prove me wrong with a debate if you feel like im incorrect or off.
I got access to both Australia and Hong Kong news,its just so insane how the police are treated so badly and framed as the thugs of hk. They are hk people themselves trying to maintain order in society trying to resolute this with minimum force.
China is a totalitarian Communist/Socialist ruled country.
Socialism is an interim step between capitalism and communism per Marx.
You want to bring socialism to the US.
Google protests in Hong Kong and Venezuela. Ever wonder why the people are protesting?
I'm not even American you absolute ingrate. I dont want socialism, just like I dont want totalitarian state controlled countries.
Generally, anyone who uses socialism or communism as their go-to boogeyman is just a fucking idiot.
Seems to me socialism has resulted in more deaths than any other system.
100 million people in the 20th century alone.
I guess your free education was worth every penny!
You should demand your tuition back. Again, please provide proof that anything I have said about socialism is wrong.
Time to put those 36,000 pounds to good use
You're not even reading what I replied to you with in the first place, why should I waste my breath? I'll use my good ol' education to determine its far beneath me to bother trying to educate a fool.
CCP believes that the route to Communism is... Capitalism - Socialism - Communism. They believe they are still in the Capitalism stage and working towards Socialism. So no. They also have far fewer socialist polices that the USA.
China is not at the capitalism stage. It is in the socialism stage or almost fully into it. The Nazis used the same model. They allowed nominal private ownership of certain industries but always under government control. Most key industries were fully controlled by the government.
China is much further along the path to the full socialism stage than the US is.
Proof: A Chinese citizen can open a business and own property in the USA but an American citizen can't open a business in China (without a Chinese partner) nor can they own property.
I know "not real socialism/communism" is a meme at this point but they really aren't a true socialist state. They're just a one party state headed by an autocrat.
If it really even tried to be socialist it would crack down on people that earn passive income from producing nothing like owners of businesses or landlords. The workers would produce things and if there was a surplus of production it would be distributed among the population, whereas currently many people produce goods for close to nothing in terms of wages and that production gets shipped off overseas.
Actually, Marx wrote that there would be transition periods where two economic systems would overlap and have qualities of both as a society entered the next stage. In other words, a country can be moving from capitalism to socialism and have qualities of both before becoming fully socialist.
China is a socialist state. It has some capitalist features but make no mistake, the Chinese Communist party controls all industries and businesses it wishes to. That is the very definition of socialism.
At this juncture, the 5 demands are just posturing for violent thugs to find justification for continuing senseless violence, regardless of how sympathetic or cute the meme looks. There are no longer peaceful protestors in Hong Kong. There are violent thugs and less extreme, non-violent protestors who actively support the violent thugs.
1) the bill must be withdrawn;
The bill is dead, as dead as the 2003 anti-sedition bill.
2) the chief executive must resign; she is a lame duck anyway. Who would want her job anyway?
3) the government must retract its characterisation of the violent clashes as “riots”;
That is not a definition by the HK government, but a legal term defined in the Public Order Ordinance by the British. I thought the protests are to uphold the rule of law in HK? Why demanding the executive branch to override the judicial branch?
4) there must be a full independent inquiry into the actions of the police.
HK has an established and independent branch as a check-and-balance for its law enforcement, i.e. the IPCC. The committee has several ongoing investigations about recent police actions
5) everyone arrested in respect of the clashes must be unconditionally freed.
What sort of rule of law is this? Do you really want the chief executive to dictate who to be prosecuted? That is less prosecutorial independence than in the mainland legal system.
I thought that is why the protestors are so against the extradition bill in the first place?
hahaha look like that homeless guy in the orange neon shelter jacket meme!!!!
Google images for those who don't know:
https://www.google.com/search?q=meme+with+homeless+man+in+orange+jacket&client=ms-android-google&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwity4WMvYHkAhUux1kKHamTD4IQ_AUoAXoECA0QAQ&biw=393&bih=658&dpr=2.75
Photo and caption credit to [Laurel Chor](https://twitter.com/laurelchor/status/1161185910601310208?s=19).
I swear every iconic photo about the protests comes from her
right to the point! Support HK!!!! Stand Strong!!!!
I'm incredibly worried about the protestors after this is all over. Hopefully none of them get in trouble during/throughout; but imagine if the authorities crack down with cell phone data, public transport information, credit cards, etc.
I think a lot of the protestors have been trying to avoid things, where masks, etc. I'm sure at the end of this there will be amnesty for the protestors and no long term effects, imagine the international outcry?
this is really scary to think about. I really appreciate now more the sacrifice they are all making. I have been thinking more about personal data & privacy with datawallet, but I don't think being able to permission data would really help when the chinese governments systematically abuses citizens' rights.
I wouldn’t bet on international outcry to be a deterrent of China cracking down.
Ya mainland China will do as it wants.
The videos looks more like anarchist protestors trying to crack down on the police ( who themselves have a family and are just trying to do their jobs )
There's video of the police planting sticks on handcuffed ppl and those ppl end up in hospitals with head trauma. China is known for this shit. If you support them. Fuck you Edit: the video https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/08/article/hk-police-deny-framing-beating-protester/
Typical of lemmings to be unable to follow the discussion, change topic and then make personal pointless emotional attacks 😂, god forbid you get a chance to be a leader and decide for all of us how life should be in Hong Kong
Ok then, Do you live in hong kong? Whats your point of view? I literally gave you a video of what their doing, Lemming. Or do you just deflect and name call like a lemming yourself?
Ah now we are being less antagonistic and more open to both sides of the coin, we can have a discussion https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cohdoy/thousands_of_hong_kongers_sing_do_you_hear_the/ewm0eun/
Well then it is sad to see these 2 sides collide. I feel like everyone should be able to be free from authoritarian govts. And i feel like china is that govt. Right now. When the ppl started protesting and the govt. sent triads in, and then the military. Something is wrong. China is wiling to kill to take back hk.
Lol...
On one hand, they are appealing for the amnesty of those outlaws. One another hand, they keep disturbing the society and doing things violent and illegal... For the government, there is no possibility to pardon these behaviors, otherwise the people will believe that they could fight for their rights with any evil methods and won't be blamed as well.
Are you talking about HK police or the protesters?
Amnesty of outlaws as in “retracting riot characterisation of protests”? People are protesting for the government to retract such characterisation because of how the law was phrased, that “taking part” in a riot (and other elements) is an offence. What they are protesting for, is that this is a matter for the court to decide (whether or not there is a riot), but not for the government (the executive branch) to determine. Not to mention that some of the protests (eg 612 protest) was actually covered in the no objection letter issued by the HK police. Whether there is a breach of peace before or after the HK police arrived at the scene should be a matter for the court to decide.
Kinda like Tiananmen square huh?
I would like to hear more about it
Considering a group of ppl fighting for their freedoms only to have 10k+ get mowed down by tanks and still have a govt. Refuse it ever happened? Im grateful i saw the pictures of those scumbags getting tied to buses and set on fire. It doesnt take much to find out what really happened all these years later. Fire with fire, especially when it comes to dictatorships
That's why losing is not an option this time. If the CCP wins, the consequences would certainly be terrible.
Tanks.
You shouldn't be worried about them, they've been warned.
Breaking the law demands justice. Some of those people assaulted police officers, destroyed and defaced public property, surround and beat up anyone that disagrees with or argues with them. Those specific people need to face the consequences. I hope the police find these people and distinguish them from the peaceful protestors, anyway they can.
Why should they face consequences for standing up against the political failures of Carrie Lam? If the law is unjust, why should we still abide by it?
In what way is the law unjust? The extradition bill did not pass, and it was introduced to bring a murderer to justice. I struggle to see how violence and crimes will convince Carrie Lam to do anything in their favour. If she does then she proved violence and crimes will get people what they want. If that is the case, then Hong Kong is screwed.
The law is unjust because it is a tool for China to capture any dissidents, whether Chinese or foreigners, in Hong Kong and extradite them to China. It is not to bring the murderer to justice because Taiwan already proclaimed that they would not extradite the guy even if the law is passed, since it infringes their sovereignty. Edit: spelling
Taiwan just pardoned the murderer, Good job. The criminal who killed an innocent girl and her unborn baby successfully avoided the sentences because of political reasons! Good for him!
This could have been dealt with on a one-time only single case basis passed by the legco (the equivalent of parliament in Hong Kong) . Carrie Lam and her administration refused to discuss with Taiwan on possible one time extradition in accordance with current law, dragged the matter and create artificially such urgency to pass the extradition as the government drafted. Not to mention that they also deny the Legco (the parliament) rights and usual practice of forming a legislative committee to examine the bill (1) as any other bills in Hong Kong and (2) as any other sensible legislature/parliament in the world will do with respect to a controversial bill. Carrie lam and her team denied the girl ( and her parents) from the justice they deserve.
No it was Carrie Lam who pardoned the murderer. She refused to consider all other currently available options (ie a special case by case basis type deal) to extradite the murderer and insisted on passing this controversial law instead, leading to the current chaos.
The bill didn't pass, and it won't pass. Everyone knows that. It has just become an excuse for students to purge as a summer activity, knowing well that there will be no consequences to any law they break Edit: this is a pretty bold metaphor, so I just wanna make clear that I believe this metaphor applies to the few but very active members of the protestors, I also believe there are a lot of peaceful protestors out there, whom I don't mind.
The bill is still tabled at the legco. Although the session has lapsed, I hope you could see that this reflects the government blatant disregard of the rules and procedures prescribed in express provisions. People (myself inclusive) because the government has been ignoring procedural justice when lodging bills and avoiding discussion of matter in a constructive manner in the legco by bypassing all the currently existing and prescribed rules that are there to ensure procedural justice. Protest pretty much the most humble way to voice our opinion to the government. People protest not only for the bill in itself, but also the fact that people do not believe and know that the legco (parliament) will not be able to stop the bill from passing. Not to mention the administrative tactics they use to disqualify both elected legco members (MP equivalent) and candidates just by virtue of what they or even their party had previously said. 1 million people marched out with one single purpose on 9 June. The government issued a press release within 3-4 hours after the march, saying that they will continue the 2nd reading (3rd reading is actually procedurally right after) and will very probably immediately passed the bill. The blatant disregard of public opinion was so appalling I could not believe I was real, and that it was Hong Kong.
>1 million people marched out with one single purpose on 9 June. The government issued a press release within 3-4 hours after the march, saying that they will continue the 2nd reading (3rd reading is actually procedurally right after) and will very probably immediately passed the bill. The blatant disregard of public opinion was so appalling I could not believe I was real, and that it was Hong Kong. THIS change as stupid as it sounds cannot be achieved without blood and tears
The bill is still on the agenda of LegCo and with the support of pro Beijing camps in LegCo the bill can definitely pass. As to breaking laws without consequences, you can refer to the triad gangster/ terrorists in Yuen Long, North Point and Tsuen Wan, who to this day still haven’t been charged with any crimes after their indiscriminate attacks on HK citizens.
In ever region on earth, these behaviors are supposed to be blamed no matter what're the reasons. Why shouldn't they face punishments? And why should people out of this chaos abide by these disturbances?
I know the police should be punished for abuse of power. That's why countries have imposed restrictions on riot gear exports to HK, as they've seen the abuses. I think we're getting off topic though.
Main land is going to fuck them so hard after this
Freaking pathetic, bunch of Hong Kong citizens were beaten up in the subway, the citizens that were being hit mistakenly by the uncontrolled cops, injuring protesters with excessive force like we have all seen from different footage, yet not even one mainlander chose to believe or question why was that happening. And that one idiot knowing that he will be the black sheep by wearing pro-police t shirt and trying to look cool being provocateur ended up getting his ass beaten, and now the whole 1.4 billion Chinese people are furious and feel attacked because Hong Kong rioters are disrespecting China. smh, what else can people do at this point. #玻璃心
Yea im also pissed at mainlanders who only think we are trying to become independent. Always saying protesters were violent and we should go to hell. Who cares just block them if you see them
Hong Kong is China forever! https://i.imgur.com/G8mqMrL.jpg
Lol
Because you are violent. How many people did the thugs tortured in the Airport yesterday?
In HKer’s perspective : we were peaceful . China called us rioters. We became violent. China will still say we are rioters. The frontline doesn’t want to be all beaten up and take no actions to fight back, while still being called violent. Police and government taught us peaceful protest have no use. Last night, i know it was violent. People are scared of under-covers, and some people kicked the Chinese press guy, i know that. But there were also people who try to stop it. Someone beat the police because the police pushed down a girl who was alone, and protester tries to save the girl from being arrested , that was instinctive act to save someone who didn’t do anything illegal. In my perspective, all protesters are teammates. Sometimes they did bad things. We forgive. And move on. Because we unite. It’s the only way to win this. Because 5 cents never say bad things to their own kind, why should we? ;)
If the peaceful protestors do not condemn and distance themselves from violent ones, the public will have to lump you together with them, and characterise the whole group by the behaviours of the most extreme elements. “The other side does it too” is not a good excuse. If HK is a society of rule of law , use the law to fight excessive forces by the police. It is slower but much less risky for all. If you don’t think HK has rule of law anymore, what is the point of starting the whole protest again?
It’s funny to say use the law to fight the police and all the injustice, because the government and legislative council and the police are all on one side. Many representatives helped to pass laws and bills that does no good to us at all, (etc. trillion $ constructions) meanwhile there isn’t enough reps. that can stop it. (We will see in the upcoming election) We know law won’t do it’s thing until we win, so far it only been used to arrest protesters. Plus hk police have not been wearing their IDs for 2 months, that is already illegal from the beginning, and guess what happened? Nothing. And Carrie Lam is protecting them, so they became more and more violent, because they don’t need to take responsibility.
can you give me some sources on the >trillion $ constructions i am interested the economy and building history of 香港!
LOL the “trillion” is exaggeration.. most people don’t care about such expensive constructions, and this is not the only case. The M+ museum is still not done yet, ffs they are trying to act like they care about arts & culture lol A part of The West Kowloon Culture District was sinking recently. Gov. want to build an artificial island : https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1097704/hong-kong-to-build-79b-artificial-island And we never know why they need to spend so much money on it, and how much actually is for the construction and how much goes to someone’s pocket secretly
Wow. Thanks! Hong Kong has been a historical place to gather money to a small minority. So sadly but yeah i can understand your concerns.
Then the HK legal system doesn’t work at all if everybody is corrupted. Still violence and disruptions will not going to solve anything.
People have learnt from Umbrella Movement that occupying the streets doing nothing for months will obviously fail, thats why they are changing & evolving. Carrie Lam is good at ignoring problems and wait for people to chill out, then keep doing what she wants to do (she has a long history of doing that) That’s why the protest cannot stop, she is just waiting for it to die out Seems like peace and violence did not work, maybe they just need to keep doing any kind of protest for months and don’t let it stop. We will see what will happen.
What is the endgame? Complete destruction of Hong Kong?! Lam will be gone sooner or later. Start negotiating, stop the violent shit. Sooner or later you’ll get someone killed.
Negotiating is also a trap, if you recall umbrella movement again. Not too long after negotiation the whole movement ended and failed. Well 6 people already suicide to protest, so we already lost lives
[Silence, Wumao](https://imgur.com/gallery/lW8CMn7)
Ha, personal attacks are all you’ve got, right?
Calling out idiots isn't a personal attack, I just dont want to waste my time. Not worth it for people like you who are either paid, or doing the same job for free due to indoctrination, idiocy, or both.
It is what idiots do when they don’t have a counter argument.
Not wasting my breath on bootlickers, go bait somewhere else~
Hey man, logic doesn't work with these people, their patriotism and western media is all they got 🤣
actually i'm rather pro-protest . But if you are open for civil nice discussion i'm cool with that. Not everyone of us is like r/Coffeecannon :)
Sure, I'm happy to debate, rather happy that someone is willing to. Do you think the front line protestors are right?
Not to mention that it’s a common thing that CCP does, is to have their own people to blend into the crowd and stir things up so they get an advantage , and starting to make fake news from it Even police are disguised as a protester, I will not doubt that some one is trying to cause chaos so protesters fall the the disadvantage side. but i will not deny that last night was violent. It is a fact.
The protestors have strategies, and the police has them too. Fair game. The undercover cops can agitate all they want. The dozens of angry mobs kicking the shit out of the poor guys aren’t all undercover cops, are they? Those people freely chose to commit inhumane, violent crimes last night. Whatever the other side did cannot justify that.
多谢一直支持双普选，多谢一直声讨六四屠杀，多谢一直支持香港反送中，多谢一直关注铜锣湾书店案，你上次提供的关于习维尼的资料非常有价值，非常感谢！
Cute, but really quite lame and don’t deserve a response.
But you did respond xxx
You won't actually get them to respond. They block or ignore when you point out their hypocrisy. As someone who's read the entire extradition bill and the revisions, when you actually tried to ask about their problems with the bill, back when they were still pretending that's what this is all about, they totally shut down. They've been beating up old men and women long before they had their asses handed to them in Yuen Long, but no one wants to know about that.
Keep fighting.
1.4bn people are furious because the thugs have no decency and humanity. Torturing a guy for 4 hours in plain sight. Blocking the ambulance. That’s all the doings of your comrades.
well, 7 million people are also furious because the government AND THUGS have no decency and humanity. Thousands of ordinary citizens and protesters were physically and mentally tortured for 2 months. No actions taken by the government and the only thing you lovely central government does is twisting and promoting fake news and put the blame on the non existing western countries and falsely claiming HK people asking for independent. That's what your COMRADES been up to. meh.
I don’t think most HK citizens are with you on what the protestors did in the airport last night. You have a pretty funny definition of torture. The protestors would have faced much heavier police response in USA and many other western countries. Want to check out how the yellow-vest protestors were treated in France? I wouldn’t be surprised that CIA play a role in some way but I don’t think it or other foreign powers is the deciding factor. CIA is well known for sponsoring unrest in a number of countries. China is certainly on USA’s list of strategic rivals (enemies). And saying that the protestors on the same moral plane with the Beijing government doesn’t exactly put you in a good light. If the protestors don’t want to be labelled as pro-independence, lay off on stuff about the flags and defacing the national emblem.
>I don’t think most HK citizens are with you on what the protestors did in the airport last night. Likewise, I bet not all 1.4 billion Chinese folks are in favor of what the government has done to Hong Kong. >You have a pretty funny definition of torture. It is not funny, physical tortured can be "4 hour" like you said... though not sure where you got this from, but can also be only a few minutes like how the pigs done on the street. Mental torturing is real too, you don't live there and you won't understand how people are scared of getting close to cops and have to be aware of what color of clothing they gotta be wearing to avoid getting into problem... this is so unnecessary yet real, mental distress in long term is a fucking tortured. >The protestors would have faced much heavier police response in USA and many other western countries. Want to check out how the yellow-vest protestors were treated in France? I don't care about your whataboutism, if this is happening in Hong Kong, then lets talk about Hong Kong and not how other countries would have handled the situation. >I wouldn’t be surprised that CIA play a role in some way but I don’t think it or other foreign powers is the deciding factor. CIA is well known for sponsoring unrest in a number of countries. China is certainly on USA’s list of strategic rivals (enemies). Stay paranoid about foreign interference, keep dreaming about it. Y'all nationalist pride must feel so attacked and as always trying to put the blame on someone else instead of being self-critical and think of WHY WOULD THIS BE HAPPENING IN HONG KONG. yeah yeah, foreign influence yeah. >And saying that the protestors on the same moral plane with the Beijing government doesn’t exactly put you in a good light. > >If the protestors don’t want to be labelled as pro-independence, lay off on stuff about the flags and defacing the national emblem. I insist extreme nationalist education is dangerous as heck; they are protesting against the Hong Kong and Chinese Central Government, they are expressing their discontent and what, would you expect them to wave the Chinese flag and kiss the emblem why raging against the government? And since when waving another country's flag automatically turns you into pro-independence? don't forget HK is a diverse place unlike China. fix your broken logic man, at this point if you still think being a nationalist and "flag defender" is more important than people's lives, you are broken.
Beijing labels the protestors pro-independence because they have given them plenty of reasons. I don’t particularly care. I don’t even consider myself that patriotic. The violent protestors put themselves, those around them and the general public at risk and have caused the taxpayers a lot of money. Those I do care about.
Mainlanders all like to say “if you are in another country (USA) you would have been shot with real bullets” But they missed out the next bit When people succeed, most of the protesters will be released and the police who illegally use force excessively will be sentenced to jail. But is it going to happen in China or HK? Don’t think so.
So just drag down the whole city?!
there is a reason why protesters want everyone to burn together, is that most young generation already lost hope with the future. Plus young gen have nothing to lose honestly, the ones that are against the protest are the ones who have property & enough money so they don’t give a damn, they only care about economy young gen is struggling to survive in hk basically. U gotta look up what problems we are having here, especially 150 mainlanders come to settle in hk, they are trying to dilute us. They get so much benefits while young gen gets nothing. We are angry with the government for a long time seriously It’s near impossible to buy a house in hk. Check or google you will find out hk is crappy as sh*t in many ways, like highest living costs, highest property cost etc. gov is trying to get rid of cantonese teaching as well, how can we be happy? Children gets penalized for speaking canto in some school. Many things are f up, the extradition bill is just the last straw I thought we had 50 yrs before becoming like China, bro
If the young people feel they have nothing to lose, it justifies destroying everyone’s livelihood?! Is this the democratic value you are fighting for? The social problems are long-standing and complex to solve. If HK economy crashes, the government has fewer resources to address these problems. How is that helpful to anyone?
because mainlanders see even more force by their local PD, and think hongkies are being entitled... because from their perspective HKPD is handling protesters with baby gloves. And you can't deny there are a lot of anti-mainlander localists within the movement and they tend to be the loudest and most violent ones... which tends to get picked up on Camera. And the irony is your post really shows why the mainland has no more sympanthy for your movement. Two guys were literally tied up, beaten, searched, stripped, and humiliated for simply being mainlanders, and you call them glass hearts... and yet you still don't see why they don't support you Hongkies anymore. Your movement is filled with people like you who don't see big picture. Who don't know how to play the game. and the leaders are being pussies and hiding behind anonymity and continue to claim it to be a "leaderless" movement. Face it, your leaders are inept and scrubs. And that's why the CCP will play you all like a grand piano and become the heroes in the end.
HAHAHA, I was about to stop answering more from this thread but people like you triggers me. Without a doubt violence is not the answer for neither sides, and it should never be, and I gotta say the protesters fucked up yesterday because the anger won them over, but please don't forget you lovely central government started playing dirty, cooperating with gangs and having cops disguised as protesters to mess up with real protesters. Why wouldn't they be suspicious if another round of the same shit happen to then? Though again, it does not justify their actions, but yet comparing to what have happened to the Hong Kong citizens in the past two months, you know who has been hurt more. (i hope) And my dude, mainland has never had sympathy for this movement, nor they will ever want to listen or question WHY is this happening. YOUR central government is blind and paranoid as fuck with self-constructed stories about western influences and pro-independence, your twisted news grab that only little piece of news that perhaps can be beneficial for their propaganda agenda and magnify it to brain wash the entire nation, guess who is not seeing the big picture here? YOU AND YOU FELLOW MAINLANDERS; This is not the end yet, and you can't dictate who will end up playing who, but as for now I am sure YOU are one puppet that is being played by the CCP. Open your eyes.
>Two guys were literally tied up, beaten, searched, stripped, and humiliated for simply being mainlanders That's actually crazy, i haven't heard of that :o ! Do you have a source on it?
It did happen , but more details is : One of the dude is from a China Press but he carries a wooden stick (weapon) in his bag and he was taunting the crowd and said “i support police, you guys can beat me up now” The crowd got angry and started to search his bag , and found out he does not have a legal press ID / permission. Beating him does not look good , and protesters are starting to realized they got baited and made a wrong decision the day after. Another one is a China police, crowd got angry because hk police have been hiding their police ID and people suspect China Police is blended into the hk police. This is like adding gasoline on fire. And also very common dirty trick that CCP does, they act as the pity one so now they gain advantage from this incident. Not to mention a teenager was beaten up by 10 gangs from China (who posted on social media saying they are coming to beat hkers up. ) Not sure if police arrest anyone so far. On the other side, the Chinese Press who got beaten was celebrated by a crowed who dressed in a red tshirt, got flowers and all that. Looks like they are celebrating their success of playing the pity game. Lmao
Wow. Taunting the mob is never a smart idea, so expect to get beaten up. I'm not advocate of violence actually I'd prefer if people didn't. But the one that looks for trouble might find it. Idek what to say. Yikes
funny enough the phrase "I support Police, you can beat me up now" became viral for Mainlanders, as a majority of them doesn't support this protest. So yea one incident will immediately became news material for China media to stir up even more hate and misunderstandings
I mean i can get that. At this point they have to MAKE the news as these events are too big to contain inside of HK
This is one of the many reason why I love Hong Kong so much
Good shit. Honestly memes are a powerful force to sway the opinions of youth.
What are the 5 demands?
[The demands are](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49317695): 1. Complete withdrawal of the extradition bill 1. Withdrawal of the "riot" description used about the 12 June protests 1. Amnesty for all arrested protesters 1. An independent inquiry into alleged police brutality 1. Universal suffrage for the Chief Executive and Legislative Council elections
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I'm not in Hong Kong, nor am I one of the protestors. I'm just passing along information about what the demands are.
Because more protestors are innocent of crimes than ones who have committed 'serious crimes'
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It kinda does, since so many protesters were arrested just to shut them up and charged with random shit it's hard to really determine who did what and it would be very difficult for any police officer to convince the general public that the crimes were genuine. It'd be much better for peace to forgive and try to forget
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In 1977, HK police stormed the newly founded Independent Commission Against Corruption office. The governor of HK gave in and agreed to not to pursue corrupt police officers for past crimes. Obviously law can be bent to achive a goal, especially if public safety at large is at stake. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/02/25/1977-2009-2017-brief-history-hong-kong-police-union-action/
Actually this is exactly the sort of decision a good judge would make.
Yes a good judge to you would pardon all protestors and a bad judge to you would be one who is impartial.
With a lack of sufficient evidence, impartial means no trial. At least in good justice systems.
Now, maybe i've just been around people more, but in my experience it leaves them really bitter and resentful if you punish them for being mad at you, especially when you punish them with something like what they were mad at you for in the first place
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Protester: "You're oppressing our people and taking away our ability to be heard, you need to fix this." Judge: "Cool, jailtime for you then" Protester:"THE FUCK DID I JUST SAY?"
You haven't made a coherent argument, either. Which protesters, exactly, committed "serious crimes" for which the city could not sleep at night, were they to go free?
Are you kidding me right now? Protestors who threw molotovs? Protestors who flung bricks at government buildings? Protestors who infiltrated the legislative council building and vandalized it? Protestors who assaulted police officers? These are just a few of the serious crimes committed. Are you guys seriously this delusional to think that ALL of the arrested protestors are innocent? You guys are so tunnel visioned that it’s not even funny. Lawbreakers don’t get released just because you think they did crimes that aren’t worth it to prosecute against or because you demand them to be released.
Actually, i agree that who committed crime should be prosecuted. However, since police was sending spy into the protester, and they already admitted it btw. We cannot know whether it is police startegy or is it really the protester. If the police was involved in encourging the protester to break law, is it not a type of entrapment? Did it stick to the course of justice? Besides, the whole violent thing is due to the incompetent of carrie lam !!!!!!
Yes, and that is why I agree that trials need to and will be held, as well as an independent investigation, but I do not agree that all protesters should be released, as stated by the protesters.
Well.... I think at least, we should have an open and fair trial. If turn out that their behavior is for the greater good for the society. I think may be lighter punishment should be applied. for example, charging for vandalization instead of riot. I think another thing that we should pay attention is that police sent spy into the protester. It have a good chance that they took part in encouraging the protester to do violent act. If it is true, It is a kind of entrapment, and totally unprofessional. At last, I want to say again FUCK YOU DIRTY COPS
Name one
Name one? Really? Do you know their names? Cause I sure as hell don't. I'm only telling you what I've seen and what the world has seen. Their names are irrelevant to the point. The point is that there are protestors who have committed crimes and should be prosecuted against. So the demand that ALL protestors be released is absurd. And you still have not provided any counter arguments.
Well since you have no specififcs, it's hard to argue. We night even agree on a small handful of protestors who should not receive clemency, but we'll never know, since this is your argument, but lacking *any* specifics.
What? Knowing their names and not knowing their names is completely irrelevant to the point as I've said before. The point is they DID the things I said above. Yes it's hard for you to argue because you have no argument. I've provided many examples. You have provided nothing.
You sound super knowledgable. "We" will take your advice into consideration rofl
It absolutely should not apply to all the arrested protesters. Hong Kongers are stubborn and afraid to admit that many of the protesters are delusional.
Right? Something so logical yet it's completely frowned upon here and frowned upon by all the protestors.
I'm assuming common sense applies, and amnesty wouldn't apply for serious crimes that were incidental to the protest. Like if a protester stabbed an officer for no reason, they're not getting amnesty. Vandalising buildings, that's part of the protest. Scuffles with riot police, you have some grey areas there. If Carrie accepted the conditions with such common sense caveats (an impartial committee to do the assessments), I expect that would well received.
At this juncture, the 5 demands are just posturing for violent thugs to find justification for continuing senseless violence, regardless of how sympathetic or cute the meme looks. There are no longer peaceful protestors in Hong Kong. There are violent thugs and less extreme, non-violent protestors who actively support the violent thugs. 1) the bill must be withdrawn; The bill is dead, as dead as the 2003 anti-sedition bill. 2) the chief executive must resign; she is a lame duck anyway. Who would want her job anyway? 3) the government must retract its characterisation of the violent clashes as “riots”; That is not a definition by the HK government, but a legal term defined in the Public Order Ordinance by the British. I thought the protests are to uphold the rule of law in HK? Why demanding the executive branch to override the judicial branch? 4) there must be a full independent inquiry into the actions of the police. HK has an established and independent branch as a check-and-balance for its law enforcement, i.e. the IPCC. The committee has several ongoing investigations about recent police actions 5) everyone arrested in respect of the clashes must be unconditionally freed. What sort of rule of law is this? Do you really want the chief executive to dictate who to be prosecuted? That is less prosecutorial independence than in the mainland legal system. I thought that is why the protestors are so against the extradition bill in the first place?
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They're a bunch of pissheads
The first time I laugh when I see that bitch’s face.
Beat them at their own game and hire mobsters to stop the other mobsters
The PRC should surrender at once. There isn’t a weapon in their arsenal that can counteract memes. History will bear this out.
I see a person of culture.
this is Smart, Smart Ass, and AWESOME!
Excuse my ignorance, but what happened with the Triads? Did they get involved somehow?
There's evidence that the government is using them as local muscle to assault protestors.
arrested protestors were charged with rioting within a week of the protest, while the triads who attacked protestors (caught on camera) have not been charged with anything for three weeks
The 7/21 Yuen Long incident is suspected to have been done by triads, along with much of the extrajudicial anti-protester violence.
Against the extra-judicial protestor violence. 7/21 is a gang incident, black-T gang fighting white-T gang.
No it wasnt.
Damn that's cool
Dude, can the artist get a Bauhinia star!? Outstanding work.
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Well said, if everyone can have a search about the 'game theory' it really makes the whole protest seems pointless, the end game is hk belongs to China . It sounds bad, I know. But I want hk people know that u are ultimately inflicting damage on your self and you have no one but urself to blame in future. Also please note media is bias, it have big influence on how people think and shows how scary herd mentality is. Please prove me wrong with a debate if you feel like im incorrect or off.
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I got access to both Australia and Hong Kong news,its just so insane how the police are treated so badly and framed as the thugs of hk. They are hk people themselves trying to maintain order in society trying to resolute this with minimum force.
42069
The people of the United States support you! Don't give up!
I know Americans like violence. Want to export your gun violence to Hong Kong. I sure hope not.
Chill, lol. They are just showing support.
笑中帶淚
If you have a counter argument, please say so. Personal attacks are lame.
It’s not difficult, Lam.
Your a fucking idiot. Point blank.
Well done!
People in USA who want socialism. This is socialism.
No its not. Its fighting a tyrannical govt for democracy you dried cunt.
This IS socialism dummy. Go to school!
Please take your own advice and learn how government systems work before insulting others.
China is a totalitarian Communist/Socialist ruled country. Socialism is an interim step between capitalism and communism per Marx. You want to bring socialism to the US. Google protests in Hong Kong and Venezuela. Ever wonder why the people are protesting?
I'm not even American you absolute ingrate. I dont want socialism, just like I dont want totalitarian state controlled countries. Generally, anyone who uses socialism or communism as their go-to boogeyman is just a fucking idiot.
Seems to me socialism has resulted in more deaths than any other system. 100 million people in the 20th century alone. I guess your free education was worth every penny!
I paid £36k for my university education, actually. You're living up to your username.
You should demand your tuition back. Again, please provide proof that anything I have said about socialism is wrong. Time to put those 36,000 pounds to good use
You're not even reading what I replied to you with in the first place, why should I waste my breath? I'll use my good ol' education to determine its far beneath me to bother trying to educate a fool.
CCP believes that the route to Communism is... Capitalism - Socialism - Communism. They believe they are still in the Capitalism stage and working towards Socialism. So no. They also have far fewer socialist polices that the USA.
China is not at the capitalism stage. It is in the socialism stage or almost fully into it. The Nazis used the same model. They allowed nominal private ownership of certain industries but always under government control. Most key industries were fully controlled by the government. China is much further along the path to the full socialism stage than the US is. Proof: A Chinese citizen can open a business and own property in the USA but an American citizen can't open a business in China (without a Chinese partner) nor can they own property.
I know "not real socialism/communism" is a meme at this point but they really aren't a true socialist state. They're just a one party state headed by an autocrat. If it really even tried to be socialist it would crack down on people that earn passive income from producing nothing like owners of businesses or landlords. The workers would produce things and if there was a surplus of production it would be distributed among the population, whereas currently many people produce goods for close to nothing in terms of wages and that production gets shipped off overseas.
Actually, Marx wrote that there would be transition periods where two economic systems would overlap and have qualities of both as a society entered the next stage. In other words, a country can be moving from capitalism to socialism and have qualities of both before becoming fully socialist. China is a socialist state. It has some capitalist features but make no mistake, the Chinese Communist party controls all industries and businesses it wishes to. That is the very definition of socialism.
**throws petrol bomb to secure amnesty for arrested protesters** Are you kidding me?
The people who threw the petrol bomb were arrested and found to be triad-linked.
At this juncture, the 5 demands are just posturing for violent thugs to find justification for continuing senseless violence, regardless of how sympathetic or cute the meme looks. There are no longer peaceful protestors in Hong Kong. There are violent thugs and less extreme, non-violent protestors who actively support the violent thugs. 1) the bill must be withdrawn; The bill is dead, as dead as the 2003 anti-sedition bill. 2) the chief executive must resign; she is a lame duck anyway. Who would want her job anyway? 3) the government must retract its characterisation of the violent clashes as “riots”; That is not a definition by the HK government, but a legal term defined in the Public Order Ordinance by the British. I thought the protests are to uphold the rule of law in HK? Why demanding the executive branch to override the judicial branch? 4) there must be a full independent inquiry into the actions of the police. HK has an established and independent branch as a check-and-balance for its law enforcement, i.e. the IPCC. The committee has several ongoing investigations about recent police actions 5) everyone arrested in respect of the clashes must be unconditionally freed. What sort of rule of law is this? Do you really want the chief executive to dictate who to be prosecuted? That is less prosecutorial independence than in the mainland legal system. I thought that is why the protestors are so against the extradition bill in the first place?
hahaha look like that homeless guy in the orange neon shelter jacket meme!!!! Google images for those who don't know: https://www.google.com/search?q=meme+with+homeless+man+in+orange+jacket&client=ms-android-google&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwity4WMvYHkAhUux1kKHamTD4IQ_AUoAXoECA0QAQ&biw=393&bih=658&dpr=2.75
Man CIA sucks with memes.