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better. for example a 18% vuln debuff on enemy is just a straight up 18% dmg increase
ETA: the [damage formula](https://srl.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/damage/damage-formula) is a helpful resource if anyone wants to understand how different parts of it are calculated
So he does 48% Vuln with Roast the Ash and then another 18 Ult damage vuln ... For an Acheron setup - does this replace Pela or Silverwolf? Cos from where I'm looking, it seems like a RIP Silvie.
He gives a lot of DMG Vuln to enemies, on top of his own damage, on top of stacking Acheron ult which is another question entirely - Do Trends + his Ult stack? If so, that's going to be FUCKING WILD.
he'll probably replace SW in non-ST scenarios for Acheron. and his ult field shouldn't stack with Trends since both trigger on enemies' actions, and you can only get 1 stack for Acheron per any action
Yeah, that's what I am thinking too, but perhaps it would due to weird shit happening sometimes, but yeah. I expected it not to work, depending on if he can maintain 100% Uptime, that just means you can make your Aventurine be a DPS instead with fully offensive stats and ditch trends for a large increase in def and/or damage.
100 Energy sounds simple, esp if you forego some of his damage and focus on ER rope. You can use something simple like Sampo LC for free EHR and DOT DMG to get those multipliers up. However if you use Broken Keel on him for the sake of making Acheron stronger then IDK where you end up. Too many factors lol.
I also expected his Ult AMP to be way higher than it is, but maybe its kept in check because its on top of his default damage amp. I was mostly comparing him to Black Swan who has a lot of everything really in her kit. I'm still a little confused if BS or Jiaoqiu is the better pick.
At least they gave him a 100 ult cost. With ERR rope he can do EEA for full uptime, or AAAA for SP positive and 3/4 uptime. I hope they change it in beta so he could do EAA and have full uptime tho.
To be fair, if any comp can handle slotting in a support going EEA it's an Acheron comp. SW can go EAA easily, and Pela gives so much SP that right now I use her Skill for an extra debuff sometimes already as is.
Outside Acheron comps though, yeah it would be nice to go EAA.
Depends on how much you have of each, without other sources of each if it was 40% def shred it would be equal to around 26% vulnerability but if it was 60% def shred it would be equal to around 45% vulnerability. It just depends on what his value would be with def shred and team. The more def shred you have the better it gets but there is a cap which after 100% def shred you gain nothing.
Impossible to really say without having the original DEF down numbers to compare to. If I'm reading his Talent right, having max stacks gives the enemies around 35% vuln, which is roughly equivalent to 50% DEF reduction. But they probably didn't want to give him 50% DEF reduction because that heavily incentivizes you to run him with other sources of DEF reduction as it scales better the more you have of it. With vuln, there is no special incentive to run him with any particular buffs. So all in all, probably better because he doesn't need other sources of DEF reduction to reach his full potential, but probably worse if you were planning to run him exclusively with Pela or SW.
In most of the cases better since it's a separate multiplier, which many character don't have. Let's say you run Pela with 40% def red, that would give a multiplier of ~1.26. If Jiaoqiu had 20% def red it would be a total of 60% def red, which would be a multiplier of ~1.45. Now if that 20% is vulnerability instead they would multiply for a total of 1.26*1.2=1.512. (I don't remember the exact def shred numbers)
Some hybrid healing units would add a lot of longevity to the game. March 7th preservation and FMC could both _barely_ solo, but we’re also kinda hybrid units themselves.
More characters like that would be cool, particularly coming from different paths.
Same. Some people made it possible to run Welt as sustain, so if Jiaoqiu still had the healing I feel people would have managed to run him as a full sustain.
It’s a shame but either way he’ll probably replace Pela on my E2S1 Acheron team.
It didn't necessarily need to solo sustain a whole battle. Like even with an E0 Acheron if your team is well built and you replace the sustain with a harmony character you can clear in very few or 0 cycles. The main issue when I try to do that is actually the damage the team takes, and even a small heal could have helped make that more consistent.
Like imagine running a Acheron Pela/SW Jiaoqiu and Ruan Mei team. Most stuff will die before they even have a chance to attack.
It was... Nice. Just enough for an Acheron team.
But the last version of his kit was overloaded as hell, so it was a matter of what would get removed. RIP def shred
Is that a typo or does it actually do 300% Burn damage PER STACK?? That's gotta be a mistake right?
Pre E2 he's basically designed for Acheron and at E2 he becomes the strongest DoT DPS in the game
For context, Black Swan caps out at 840% with 50 Arcana stacks, which you can barely ever reah. Which also reset on enemy turn.
E2 Jiaoqou having 1500% Burn DoT that doesn't reset (and could be detonated by Kafka/Guinaifen) is completely off the scale.
yea, may be good enough for me to skip Firefly with her lightcone. He could be my fire DPS with my DOT comp but then again, My Acheron will be mad at me for that so I will have to most likelyE2 her as well.
You gotta wonder what's the typo. The "for each stack" part seems pretty deliberate. So that leaves the scaling. But if it should've been 30%, it becomes 150% total which is pretty crappy. Meanwhile if it was supposed to be 100% at the lowest, 500% Burn scaling is still pretty ridiculous.
Although turning him into a DoT unit with eidolons completely wastes his Ult vulnerability debuff.
I was assuming either it used to scale per stack and they changed it to a fixed 300% and they just haven’t updated the text yet, or it scales per stack up to a total of 300% so like 60% each
Either way the pre-beta leaks are usually cleaned up by the actual beta so we should find out in a couple of days
His kit seems a bit disjointed. The focus seems to be on high application rate (specifically for Acheron), but then he has a trace that give a large amount of attack.
He deals Fire damage every turn, but it only gets considered a DoT at E2.
Instead of 5* Pela, he's 5* Guin who trades DoT for being Acheron's battery.
Edit: I just realized that he wants a lot of EHR, but his LC options outside of sig are Tutorial or Eyes on the Prey.
The first of which requires defense down, which he can't supply himself (so probably won't happen for E2 Acheron players).
And Eyes on the Prey would only give EHR up until he gets E2.
y all remember the pure fiction buff when acheron first came out ? the one that puts debuff on enemies when they act they copied that and made it for jiaoqiu lol
Idk about you guys but im certainly happy for this patch, i can finally stop pulling and recover some pulls. Penacony really tested my luck in gacha...
His EHR requirements are not that much higher than Swan’s, as he gets 18% more EHR from traces compared to her. So basically he just needs 2% more EHR for the full attack bonus and debuff hit.
BRO HOW MUCH EHR YOU NEED😭😭
YOU NEED MORE THAN BLACK SWAN!
Also what is up with E2 Eidolons nowadays. E2 of this guy lets him fit in a DoT team.. E2 just seems to change how characters can play/unlocks different playstyles.
It's basically to tempt lower/mid-tier spenders to put more money into the game besides bp/monthly. You can get E0 and some sigs just fine without spending more than ~15 a month, but not eidolons unless you're crazy lucky. I know it worked for A LOT of people when Acheron released.
Honestly I don’t think it was ever this bad tbh. Like for Acheron. Sure you can put a harmony instead of nihility but the core team is the same.
Jiaoqiu’s E2 opens the doors for a whole archetype. DoT.
This is like if they made Ruan Mei’s E2 like this
"Once the character uses their skill, the ally with the most attack get 100% Advanced forward and on top of that gets 90% crit dmg and 50% atk"
Basically turning her into a hypercarry harmony AND a duo DPS harmony.
Jiaoqiu goes from the normal hypercarry(Mainly acheron and Argenti who are ult damage dealers) to one of the best for DoT while being best with Argenti and Acheron + any hypercarry.
Honestly as someone that dedicate their entire account mainly for DoT playstyle (all E1S1 on premium DoT), E2 is just way too much. That is absurd amount of jades imo even with the consideration that you dont lose the 50/50. Sure, if it is on E1, I'd consider it? But E2?
I would rather go for E2 Daniel, Acheron or Firefly instead.
Then again this is just early beta. It might change in the next few weeks so until then
I think E2 is the maximum that a lot of people who are willing to go for vertical investment are interested in. E3 is usually not that relevant (or exciting), e4 is often meh and e6 is an insane amount of money. E2 is still a lot,but with some lucky 50/50s or early pities, it's kinda feasible?
So basically, they probably get more swiping out of people from an exciting e2 than a busted e6.
E2 is to bait spending from low spenders like me. Although I was planning on getting Firefly and her lightcone so if I skip her I should be able to pull his E2 and get his light cone. What sucks is I will want him in my dot and Acheron comp. Dot comp wont be able to fit Acheron anymore because it would go him, Kafka, BS, and then Ruan Mei, especially if they are wind weak and BS will melt them. may need to get Acheron E2 especially since he dropped healing completely, Acherons 2 will still be really good to pair her with a harmony.
But dot only has 2 five stars. Acheron can work with any nihility, including the 2 dot characters. Then fua gets new character like every patch. Hyper carries get decent options. Break team still need work too thou....
Ya when I first saw his preliminary kit I thought they were trying to do something where BS's dmg% on enemy's turn would be applicable but Kafka's DOT retrigger wouldn't but even so he wouldn't be helping BS stack Arcana in that case so it doesnt really work that great.
Seems like a pretty great debuffer, but he has a weird identity crisis.
2 of his major traces deal damage, which at E0 is pretty ignorable. But then, if you get his e2 they become great additions to his kit.
It's really weird, I'd prefer if he was all about debuffing and amplifying damage, while his personal damage would be locked behind eidolons
1000% this, it seems like they don't know what they want him to do at all. This weird hybrid damage/debuffer isn't good for those of us saving for him 😭
They really should've just minimized the damage altogether and kept the healing instead... or remove the damage entirely and give him res shred on top of vulnerability.
Healing deleted completely lol
Honestly, that’s a win for me, probably he’ll be just a better specialized debuffer. Him being a weird mix of the two couldn’ve meant he was not good in anything
I keep wondering if his situation is going to be a character who has every intention of healing people with his cooking, but his cooking is actually terrible and makes everyone sick.
People were hoping the minor sustain will be enough to have no other sustain, either way I rather have a better debuffer than a mix match that isn't as useful as sustain and a weaker debuffer.
as written i'm certain e1 is a +dmg% buff which is heavily diluted, his talent stacks are vulnerability debuffs instead -- hence the difference between "increases damage dealt" vs "increased damage *received*."
this e1 seems about as good as ruan mei e2 or fu xuan e1 which are fine damage eidolons but unincredible.
Unless I’m missing something, he has no lower than a base 100% chance to inflict his debuff, and his ATK buff isn’t doing a ton without Crit (which is competing with Effect Hit Rate in terms of relic slots). This might be initial kit funkiness, but it seems like a Fu Xuan-esque ability to splash into damage rather than something he absolutely must have.
As someone that really likes his design and DoT Teams (E1S1 Kafka, E2 Black Swan) I'm rly dissapointed that his DoT playstyle is just locked behind E2. Wish it wasn't included at all bc now it just feels like I'm missing out :(
let wish the kit team has some crazy meeting that end with decide to move e2 to base kit to boost his sale, they can nerf the dot number, but pls make his stack count as Dot
~~Tutorial moment. Somehow not surprising~~ His healing is completely gone though which is interesting. Besides that it's similar to his old kit
No def shred? He also plays as sub dps
Even if he can't proc that energy regen, the fact that Tutorial has 40% EHR at S5 makes it his best F2P LC by far.
The only other good LC for him is S5 Eyes of the Prey.
So it looks like instead of def down he actually inflicts vulnerability debuffs which are pretty rare. In most teams any vulnerability is basically a unique modifier to damage. Unless its actually just %dmg in which case kinda meh.
Honestly it is better this way. Def shred characters have a problem of overcapping def shred. With him not giving def shred and rather vulnerability. He and Pela don’t have to fight each other in a Acheron team.
We need a debuffer that is on par with the broken Harmony characters. There is no reason why he shouldn’t inflict both vulnerability and def shred. Smh hoyo is gimping the man
This is kind of counterintuitive. Pela couldn't cap DEF shred in the first place and there isn't really a pairing with Pela + another unit that can cap DEF shred outside of Silver Wolf. Not to mention, DEF shred gets stronger the more you have of it, up to 100%. So JQ and Pela weren't fighting in the first place, they were working together. If Pela can't cap out and her DEF shred would have gotten more value if there were more sources of DEF shred, then Jiaoqiu getting converted to DMG vuln is a bit of a sidegrade.
Oh for sure vulnerability is really strong because up till now there haven't been many sources of it and the few we do have like Welt and SW sig have really low numbers. There were decent numbers on dot specific vulnerabilities but those are just for dot. At full stacks it looks like his talent will be giving 40+% vulnerability on top of the extra ult specific vulnerability from his ult.
So he pairs well with Aventurine thanks to reduced effect hit rate. Also his eidolons seem insanely stacked. That E2 is ridiculous and has a higher ratio than lvl 10 Kafka ultimate
This is just copium but I hope his burn on e2 get's shifted somewhere onto his base kit. Idc if it's a weaker burn, I just want him to fit into my DoT team ):
Jiaoqiu is still good for Boothill (Luka with the same type of dmg vulnerability works with him). The only problem is that Jiaoqiu is not skill positive as Pela (the very same problem that makes Luka not the best choice for Boothill unless Boothill e1 despite the better buff and more physical break).
Only problem is Tutorial LC doesn’t work as well on him anymore unless you bring a def shredder along with him. As a E2 Acheron haver it’s pretty annoying since now I’ll probably wanna go for his signature now.
I've had a very mixed reaction but decided, there's several weeks before his release and more than enough to time for them to put the DoT into his base kit (copium).
It's so odd that his Ult gives Ult Res Pen but then make him a DoT teammate at E2. It'd make more sense for his Ult to just give general Res Pen.
If they do move his DoT to base kit and if they do make his Ult general Res Pen, he would just literally push Ruan Mei out of the DoT team setup. Hmm...
Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't him pushing Ruan Mei out of the DoT team setup allow you to run DoT team + Break Team at the same time (such as one for each side of the same MoC floor) without fighting over which team gets Ruan Mei?
That possibility didn't even cross my mind because I've been preoccupied while consuming leaks. That's actually a really big perk for DoT and Break investors.
Jiaoqiu having no healing and the DoT locked behind E2 makes his kit just a debuffer and IMO more boring, tbh.
I think a limited character with reduced sustain for a careful sustain-damage trade off would be very interesting. Both if you want half a sustain but high damage or 1.5 sustains for a very comfotable fight that doesn't go double sustain.
Locking the DoT behind E2 is just anti-synergistic with DoT teams. Black Swan and the 4pc Prisoner set really want three DoTs on the enemy, which is currently why Kafka's sig is so valueable for that team.
Oh, he's not a def shredder, he does vuln ups now like Gui's firekiss. That's very strong. As I expected, he's also a bit of a Burn DPS although it doesn't seem like it's treated the same as a DoT? Maybe, need confirmation on that.
EDIT: LMAO, it's considered a DoT with E2. Nvm.
He only has a 100 energy cost but he needs the field to have Black Swan's auto application, increase ultimate damage, and make enemies take a debuff when taking action. That means he needs a def shredder partner if you want to use Tutorial on him.
He's not a pure support though, which is probably gonna be a major disappointment for some people.
Yeah same. For E0S1 Acheron he seems like an upgrade, but for E2S1 Acheron idk. I guess I was just expecting more for our first limited debuffer since SW. thought he’d be closer to the broken Harmony characters and this kit doesn’t really scream that.
I actually just read march’s kit and it’s kinda sad that her kit is much more unique and fun than his. You would think a limited debuffer would be more… universal and unique. I was hoping something along the lines of debuffer and harmony too or debuffer + slight healing.
You can, but I’m not sure it’s worth it if it’s purely for Ratio. He gives 35% vulnerability, which is roughly equal to Pela’s ultimate in terms of damage increase, then I believe only has 2 debuffs if you don’t use Pearls, but he needs mucho EHR so you might want an EHR LC instead.
On a Ratio team he probably doesn't need to cap out of the EHR requirement. His own personal damage is pretty lackluster until E2 (where he begins to dish out 300k+ DoTs lol) and his base hit rate for his debuffs is already high.
So, how many debuffs can Jiaoqiu inflict for Ratio? It looks like only two, with one requiring his light cone? Is the dmg received multiplicative? How does it compare to it having been DEF down instead?
I guess 2 isn’t *bad*, Pela could only do three with Pearls plus skill, though needing a limited cone for more is eh. I doubt his field counts as a debuff either, will probably read as a buff on the character like Hanya’s Burden. His stacks seem to evaporate fast though and take a while to stack? Also, what set is even supposed to use, he doesn’t inflict DOTs without eidolons, so Prisoner seems a wash and I don’t think he does damage, so no Pioneer.
I’m a little hmm right now, but I *will* try to keep an open mind.
Kinda sad he only has one type of debuff "Ashen Roast". This means he is not amazing with Ratio with is what i was hoping, Ratio love multiple debuffs rather than a big one. Wish his ult or talent was another debuff rather than the same.
About numbers, some think is weak, but we didnt saw him in action and this is V1, ill wait for at least V3 before trowing stones
Same - I was going to replace Silver Wolf in my Ratio team with Jiaoqiu, so this hurts a little.
Maybe we can cope for extra debuffs on future updates to his kit over the beta? /delulu
I knew he was gonna have burn in his kit but I should have KNOWN they were gonna Eidolon lock it... I'm happy but so pissed too. I'm praying they move it to his E1 or base kit but if I need to go all in for it I will so help me god
Am i reading it wrong or does his E1 more than doubles the damage taken that he can apply? No way is this dude launching with 90ish% damage taken debuff 💀. Getting another copy of him is straight up stacking 2 Jiaoqiu on top of eachother lol.
I'll make this easy for Hoyoverse:
See his trace, Hearth Kindle? See his Eidolon 2 From Savor Comes Suffer? Swap their effects and rebalance. And you'll get plenty of people on the banner for a third DoT DPS since Ruan Mei is taken by Break now.
Reread that and... litteraly half of his kit is on eidolons plus LC.
Litteraly either E2S1 him, maybe E1S1 is enought depending the usage or skip in current state.
Is it the first full non F2P character of HSR?
I wonder what will be the interaction between Trend of the Universal Market and Jiaqiou's Ult enemy turn debuff. I wonder if both debuff from him and Trend will independently count as 1 or all of it counts as only 1 (assuming enemy hits character with Trend) per enemy turn. I personally it would be the latter for balancing reasons but it would be insane for Acheron if it is actually the former
Dim said on Twitter that his E2 is not based on stacks. It does 300% Fire DoT per turn so I don't think the E2 is going to make that much of a difference for DoT teams
The only reason they changed the def down to vulnerability instead is because they want to sell his LC and a lot less people will buy it given that tutorial exists. I mean of course some newer players don't have it but for those that do that would've been an insane advantage.
That E2 at first glance is crazy, can't believe Hoyo might actually succeed at selling me a dot unit for once. Unless they change their minds and swap E2 for a higher eidolon. E1 is pretty damn good stopping point tho
Talking about his base kit they should make it so that the field of his ultimate is created with his technique imo.
mixed on the kit, its not bad or weak by any means but just kinda....boring. he applies vulnerability and ult boost but thats really it. the healing wouldve been nice for some potential team variety even if it was low but he lost that and the only other mechanic he has is a dot at e2. yunli seems more interesting despite her invalidating clara. still pulling but hoping for some reworks
He applies debuffs really often. Every attack from him can apply debuffs. While his ult is active, enemies are inflicted with a debuff when ever they come on field and whenever they take action (though that’s at a lower chance). The debuff increases damage the enemies take
I'm sure he'll be good with Ratio since he needs 3 debuffs to ensure his FUA (although you'd need another debuffer since I believe he only applies two debuffs). But honestly I could see Jiaoqiu working with any DPS since vuln makes big numbers get even bigger lol
JQ could possibly give 3 debuffs at E0:
- Ashen Roast
- Sig LC
- Pyre Cleanse (EHR decrease trace)
Then his Eidolons could make him dish out more debuffs, but gotta wait to see how they implement it in beta.
His kit seems fairly universal, so really any team in place of another support like Pela. Can be played SP-positive since his talent lets all his attacks give stacks of Roast the Ash. You could use him in hypercarry comps (DHIL/Sparkle/JQ/sustain, for example).
E2 is when he could be used in a DoT team. Teams like JQ/Kafka/BS/sustain or BS/JQ/support/sustain or Kafka/JQ/support/sustain would be viable.
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so from what i gather, def down has been swapped for vulnerability?
can someone smarter than me explain if that’s better or worse
better. for example a 18% vuln debuff on enemy is just a straight up 18% dmg increase ETA: the [damage formula](https://srl.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/damage/damage-formula) is a helpful resource if anyone wants to understand how different parts of it are calculated
So he does 48% Vuln with Roast the Ash and then another 18 Ult damage vuln ... For an Acheron setup - does this replace Pela or Silverwolf? Cos from where I'm looking, it seems like a RIP Silvie. He gives a lot of DMG Vuln to enemies, on top of his own damage, on top of stacking Acheron ult which is another question entirely - Do Trends + his Ult stack? If so, that's going to be FUCKING WILD.
he'll probably replace SW in non-ST scenarios for Acheron. and his ult field shouldn't stack with Trends since both trigger on enemies' actions, and you can only get 1 stack for Acheron per any action
This means Pela will keep being best in slot for at least another half year 😬
Pela and Jiao go brrrrrrr.
Yeah, that's what I am thinking too, but perhaps it would due to weird shit happening sometimes, but yeah. I expected it not to work, depending on if he can maintain 100% Uptime, that just means you can make your Aventurine be a DPS instead with fully offensive stats and ditch trends for a large increase in def and/or damage. 100 Energy sounds simple, esp if you forego some of his damage and focus on ER rope. You can use something simple like Sampo LC for free EHR and DOT DMG to get those multipliers up. However if you use Broken Keel on him for the sake of making Acheron stronger then IDK where you end up. Too many factors lol. I also expected his Ult AMP to be way higher than it is, but maybe its kept in check because its on top of his default damage amp. I was mostly comparing him to Black Swan who has a lot of everything really in her kit. I'm still a little confused if BS or Jiaoqiu is the better pick.
That 48% is from hypothetical level 15 talents I’m pretty sure
It won't stack with Trends as Acheron's stacking is limited to once per action.
Everybody already talked about the numbers below, but one thing to note is that he no longer self-enables tutorial.
but 100 energy cost seems very easy to maintain 3 the 3 turn field without it so it's debatable if it even matters
At least they gave him a 100 ult cost. With ERR rope he can do EEA for full uptime, or AAAA for SP positive and 3/4 uptime. I hope they change it in beta so he could do EAA and have full uptime tho.
To be fair, if any comp can handle slotting in a support going EEA it's an Acheron comp. SW can go EAA easily, and Pela gives so much SP that right now I use her Skill for an extra debuff sometimes already as is. Outside Acheron comps though, yeah it would be nice to go EAA.
Depends on how much you have of each, without other sources of each if it was 40% def shred it would be equal to around 26% vulnerability but if it was 60% def shred it would be equal to around 45% vulnerability. It just depends on what his value would be with def shred and team. The more def shred you have the better it gets but there is a cap which after 100% def shred you gain nothing.
Impossible to really say without having the original DEF down numbers to compare to. If I'm reading his Talent right, having max stacks gives the enemies around 35% vuln, which is roughly equivalent to 50% DEF reduction. But they probably didn't want to give him 50% DEF reduction because that heavily incentivizes you to run him with other sources of DEF reduction as it scales better the more you have of it. With vuln, there is no special incentive to run him with any particular buffs. So all in all, probably better because he doesn't need other sources of DEF reduction to reach his full potential, but probably worse if you were planning to run him exclusively with Pela or SW.
In most of the cases better since it's a separate multiplier, which many character don't have. Let's say you run Pela with 40% def red, that would give a multiplier of ~1.26. If Jiaoqiu had 20% def red it would be a total of 60% def red, which would be a multiplier of ~1.45. Now if that 20% is vulnerability instead they would multiply for a total of 1.26*1.2=1.512. (I don't remember the exact def shred numbers)
Seems to be the case
Seems like they removed the healing
Kinda weird the healing is gone when it was mentioned that he was a healer in the drip marketing.
Some hybrid healing units would add a lot of longevity to the game. March 7th preservation and FMC could both _barely_ solo, but we’re also kinda hybrid units themselves. More characters like that would be cool, particularly coming from different paths.
if he couldn’t solo sustain then it was useless anyway (reminds me of when Robin had a self healing in her kit)
Eh I would've liked it as it would make no sustain runs a little less RNG reliant but I'm not too bummed.
Same. Some people made it possible to run Welt as sustain, so if Jiaoqiu still had the healing I feel people would have managed to run him as a full sustain. It’s a shame but either way he’ll probably replace Pela on my E2S1 Acheron team.
I dunno, in Fu Xuan teams, a little extra top up could go a long way.
Would help fuxuan and jongliu team to not slowly decay in hp. lasts for most MoCs but still be nice to have it
could have also enabled sustainless Welt + E0 Acheron teams with a harmony unit
It didn't necessarily need to solo sustain a whole battle. Like even with an E0 Acheron if your team is well built and you replace the sustain with a harmony character you can clear in very few or 0 cycles. The main issue when I try to do that is actually the damage the team takes, and even a small heal could have helped make that more consistent. Like imagine running a Acheron Pela/SW Jiaoqiu and Ruan Mei team. Most stuff will die before they even have a chance to attack.
Jiaoqiu*
It was... Nice. Just enough for an Acheron team. But the last version of his kit was overloaded as hell, so it was a matter of what would get removed. RIP def shred
I mostly wanted the healing for sustainless PF. I knew solo sustain MoC was beyond copium
Yeah, that's what I was looking for. It's gone 😔
The kid named Ash:
he's so cooked
it's okay he's not the protag anymore
E2 is a straight up DoT DPS
Is that a typo or does it actually do 300% Burn damage PER STACK?? That's gotta be a mistake right? Pre E2 he's basically designed for Acheron and at E2 he becomes the strongest DoT DPS in the game
I have to assume it’s a typo, 1500% scaling is ridiculous EDIT: Seems it’s been clarified as just a fixed 300%
For context, Black Swan caps out at 840% with 50 Arcana stacks, which you can barely ever reah. Which also reset on enemy turn. E2 Jiaoqou having 1500% Burn DoT that doesn't reset (and could be detonated by Kafka/Guinaifen) is completely off the scale.
yea, may be good enough for me to skip Firefly with her lightcone. He could be my fire DPS with my DOT comp but then again, My Acheron will be mad at me for that so I will have to most likelyE2 her as well.
You gotta wonder what's the typo. The "for each stack" part seems pretty deliberate. So that leaves the scaling. But if it should've been 30%, it becomes 150% total which is pretty crappy. Meanwhile if it was supposed to be 100% at the lowest, 500% Burn scaling is still pretty ridiculous. Although turning him into a DoT unit with eidolons completely wastes his Ult vulnerability debuff.
I was assuming either it used to scale per stack and they changed it to a fixed 300% and they just haven’t updated the text yet, or it scales per stack up to a total of 300% so like 60% each Either way the pre-beta leaks are usually cleaned up by the actual beta so we should find out in a couple of days
Really curious about this too. It seems too strong. Also struggling to figure out wtf he's useful for outside of Acheron pre e2
His kit seems a bit disjointed. The focus seems to be on high application rate (specifically for Acheron), but then he has a trace that give a large amount of attack. He deals Fire damage every turn, but it only gets considered a DoT at E2. Instead of 5* Pela, he's 5* Guin who trades DoT for being Acheron's battery. Edit: I just realized that he wants a lot of EHR, but his LC options outside of sig are Tutorial or Eyes on the Prey. The first of which requires defense down, which he can't supply himself (so probably won't happen for E2 Acheron players). And Eyes on the Prey would only give EHR up until he gets E2.
So... only a dot applicator at e2... I hope they add that to base kit. Bs and dot fire would be op for Kafka.
he 100% is since he gives her a stack every time an enemy moves+15% Ult Vul at E0 which is x2 of her E4 he's THE acheron support
y all remember the pure fiction buff when acheron first came out ? the one that puts debuff on enemies when they act they copied that and made it for jiaoqiu lol
So, he is literally just 5 star Gui now lol
And Yunli = better Clara… real original patch Hoyo
Idk about you guys but im certainly happy for this patch, i can finally stop pulling and recover some pulls. Penacony really tested my luck in gacha...
Yeah, that's super disappointing to me (if true). Literally *nothing* distinct about his kit
His EHR requirements are not that much higher than Swan’s, as he gets 18% more EHR from traces compared to her. So basically he just needs 2% more EHR for the full attack bonus and debuff hit.
He also needs less focus on ATK% in relics. Black Swan has to stack both, in addition to speed.
BRO HOW MUCH EHR YOU NEED😭😭 YOU NEED MORE THAN BLACK SWAN! Also what is up with E2 Eidolons nowadays. E2 of this guy lets him fit in a DoT team.. E2 just seems to change how characters can play/unlocks different playstyles.
It's basically to tempt lower/mid-tier spenders to put more money into the game besides bp/monthly. You can get E0 and some sigs just fine without spending more than ~15 a month, but not eidolons unless you're crazy lucky. I know it worked for A LOT of people when Acheron released.
Honestly I don’t think it was ever this bad tbh. Like for Acheron. Sure you can put a harmony instead of nihility but the core team is the same. Jiaoqiu’s E2 opens the doors for a whole archetype. DoT. This is like if they made Ruan Mei’s E2 like this "Once the character uses their skill, the ally with the most attack get 100% Advanced forward and on top of that gets 90% crit dmg and 50% atk" Basically turning her into a hypercarry harmony AND a duo DPS harmony. Jiaoqiu goes from the normal hypercarry(Mainly acheron and Argenti who are ult damage dealers) to one of the best for DoT while being best with Argenti and Acheron + any hypercarry.
Honestly as someone that dedicate their entire account mainly for DoT playstyle (all E1S1 on premium DoT), E2 is just way too much. That is absurd amount of jades imo even with the consideration that you dont lose the 50/50. Sure, if it is on E1, I'd consider it? But E2? I would rather go for E2 Daniel, Acheron or Firefly instead. Then again this is just early beta. It might change in the next few weeks so until then
I don’t like this direction the game is headed with early eidolons changing how the character plays.
I think E2 is the maximum that a lot of people who are willing to go for vertical investment are interested in. E3 is usually not that relevant (or exciting), e4 is often meh and e6 is an insane amount of money. E2 is still a lot,but with some lucky 50/50s or early pities, it's kinda feasible? So basically, they probably get more swiping out of people from an exciting e2 than a busted e6.
E2 is to bait spending from low spenders like me. Although I was planning on getting Firefly and her lightcone so if I skip her I should be able to pull his E2 and get his light cone. What sucks is I will want him in my dot and Acheron comp. Dot comp wont be able to fit Acheron anymore because it would go him, Kafka, BS, and then Ruan Mei, especially if they are wind weak and BS will melt them. may need to get Acheron E2 especially since he dropped healing completely, Acherons 2 will still be really good to pair her with a harmony.
It's very intentional
I think the E2 is basically the full character kit
E0 for acheron. E2 for Kafka. It's pretty fking ridiculous. We barely get any dot supports or dps while fua gets like 20 teams.
Acheron's E2 also unlocks a lot of team possibilities
But dot only has 2 five stars. Acheron can work with any nihility, including the 2 dot characters. Then fua gets new character like every patch. Hyper carries get decent options. Break team still need work too thou....
Good E2s are a post Raiden thing, they're not new
DOT locked behind eidolon lol.
Ya when I first saw his preliminary kit I thought they were trying to do something where BS's dmg% on enemy's turn would be applicable but Kafka's DOT retrigger wouldn't but even so he wouldn't be helping BS stack Arcana in that case so it doesnt really work that great.
Seems like a pretty great debuffer, but he has a weird identity crisis. 2 of his major traces deal damage, which at E0 is pretty ignorable. But then, if you get his e2 they become great additions to his kit. It's really weird, I'd prefer if he was all about debuffing and amplifying damage, while his personal damage would be locked behind eidolons
1000% this, it seems like they don't know what they want him to do at all. This weird hybrid damage/debuffer isn't good for those of us saving for him 😭
They really should've just minimized the damage altogether and kept the healing instead... or remove the damage entirely and give him res shred on top of vulnerability.
Literally if they just made him Pela on steroids, add a bit of heal, and just ignore his dmg completely, I would be fine with it.
The kit reads as a weird 5\* Guinaifen to me
Yeah, I was getting that same vibe. He's basically better lil Gui without a DoT.
Unless you get his E2, because of course Hoyo did. Hoping this changes during the beta.
totally
Luocha 🤝 Jiaoqiu Supports who steal the Hunt action advance buff in SU because of stupidly high attack stats.
And Robin lol
Healing deleted completely lol Honestly, that’s a win for me, probably he’ll be just a better specialized debuffer. Him being a weird mix of the two couldn’ve meant he was not good in anything
Kinda weird the healing is gone when it was mentioned that he was a healer in the drip marketing.
(p)Harmacist Prevention is the best Cure (proceeds to erase enemies)
I keep wondering if his situation is going to be a character who has every intention of healing people with his cooking, but his cooking is actually terrible and makes everyone sick.
A good portion of his drip specifically talks about healing, I don't get why they'd focus on that when his kit has nothing to do with it.
Not always true! Look at Huohuo. She's a damn solid harmony/abundance mix
same tbh. rather him help me even more with deleting enemies than to give minor healing to my characters under aventurine's permanent shield
People were hoping the minor sustain will be enough to have no other sustain, either way I rather have a better debuffer than a mix match that isn't as useful as sustain and a weaker debuffer.
Honestly same, im glad he is a pure debuffer
Dot at e2 WTF… hoyo really said you better be willing to whale to play premium husbando dot…
They switched him from being the 5-star Pela to 5-star Gui, lol. I guess it matches his aesthetics, though.
Appreciate the transcript! I hate zooming in the images.
Cool, just hate the paid DOT.
I’m sorry wtf is that e1
Somehow still less broken than e2
Surprised to see nobody talk about this. 1 stack at E1 is literally more damage increase than 5 stacks at E0.
as written i'm certain e1 is a +dmg% buff which is heavily diluted, his talent stacks are vulnerability debuffs instead -- hence the difference between "increases damage dealt" vs "increased damage *received*." this e1 seems about as good as ruan mei e2 or fu xuan e1 which are fine damage eidolons but unincredible.
Ya I was hoping he'd have res pen in his e1 or e2 but its all the way in his e6 😵
So he need up to 140% EHR. That is even worse than Black Swan. It will be a nightmare to build without his Signature LC or Tutorial.
He gets 18% more EHR from traces than Black Swan, so basically he needs 2% more from sub-stats then Black Swan, not as bad as it could have been
Meanwhile me with neither
I mean, currently no one is having his sig LC.
Pyre Cleanse major trace has to be a typo. Reduce enemy EHR by 30%? That's gotta be reduce Enemy Effect Res. I cope
Reducing enemy EHR could actually be pretty good, especially combined with something like Aventurine
Yeah enemies could miss their debuff more often, which is huge.
Keep in mind that's more than Silver Wolf's second eidolon (20%) as a baseline trace if it is effect res down.
Mind you, Huohuo’s ultimate buffs 40% ATK which is double of Loucha’s E1.
characters having better skill on base than older eidolons? that tracks tbh so it could be it
Unless I’m missing something, he has no lower than a base 100% chance to inflict his debuff, and his ATK buff isn’t doing a ton without Crit (which is competing with Effect Hit Rate in terms of relic slots). This might be initial kit funkiness, but it seems like a Fu Xuan-esque ability to splash into damage rather than something he absolutely must have.
His "inflict debuff on enemy turn" from his field is only about 60% at level 10. So he needs a lot of EHR for better proc rate.
Ah! That’s the part I missed. Thank you!
Maybe they'll change it. Wait for the beta :P
So brutal how many characters want Tutorial and Playstation players never even had a shot at it.
Too bad the entire DoT playstyle is locked behind E2. Probably would have pulled otherwise.
As someone that really likes his design and DoT Teams (E1S1 Kafka, E2 Black Swan) I'm rly dissapointed that his DoT playstyle is just locked behind E2. Wish it wasn't included at all bc now it just feels like I'm missing out :(
We still have 6 weeks before beta is done. Acheron’s beta had a lot of positive changes so he could too
let wish the kit team has some crazy meeting that end with decide to move e2 to base kit to boost his sale, they can nerf the dot number, but pls make his stack count as Dot
~~Tutorial moment. Somehow not surprising~~ His healing is completely gone though which is interesting. Besides that it's similar to his old kit No def shred? He also plays as sub dps
He actually can't use tutorial by himself. Tutorial only procs on enemies suffering from defense down. He had no def down in his kit.
Even if he can't proc that energy regen, the fact that Tutorial has 40% EHR at S5 makes it his best F2P LC by far. The only other good LC for him is S5 Eyes of the Prey.
So it looks like instead of def down he actually inflicts vulnerability debuffs which are pretty rare. In most teams any vulnerability is basically a unique modifier to damage. Unless its actually just %dmg in which case kinda meh.
Honestly it is better this way. Def shred characters have a problem of overcapping def shred. With him not giving def shred and rather vulnerability. He and Pela don’t have to fight each other in a Acheron team.
We need a debuffer that is on par with the broken Harmony characters. There is no reason why he shouldn’t inflict both vulnerability and def shred. Smh hoyo is gimping the man
This is kind of counterintuitive. Pela couldn't cap DEF shred in the first place and there isn't really a pairing with Pela + another unit that can cap DEF shred outside of Silver Wolf. Not to mention, DEF shred gets stronger the more you have of it, up to 100%. So JQ and Pela weren't fighting in the first place, they were working together. If Pela can't cap out and her DEF shred would have gotten more value if there were more sources of DEF shred, then Jiaoqiu getting converted to DMG vuln is a bit of a sidegrade.
Oh for sure vulnerability is really strong because up till now there haven't been many sources of it and the few we do have like Welt and SW sig have really low numbers. There were decent numbers on dot specific vulnerabilities but those are just for dot. At full stacks it looks like his talent will be giving 40+% vulnerability on top of the extra ult specific vulnerability from his ult.
E6 guinaifen having almost 30% dmg vuln:
Your right forgot about gui with 28% which is not bad. Still if you include the 18% ult vulnerability thats gonna be more than double.
So he pairs well with Aventurine thanks to reduced effect hit rate. Also his eidolons seem insanely stacked. That E2 is ridiculous and has a higher ratio than lvl 10 Kafka ultimate
This is just copium but I hope his burn on e2 get's shifted somewhere onto his base kit. Idc if it's a weaker burn, I just want him to fit into my DoT team ):
Same! I've gotten every DOT character before for my kafa, but E2 is a little steep
no more def reduction? :(
hes no longer pela 2.0 but now hes guinafen 3.0 what a lad
Is he still good for boothill or we sticking to pela?
Jiaoqiu is still good for Boothill (Luka with the same type of dmg vulnerability works with him). The only problem is that Jiaoqiu is not skill positive as Pela (the very same problem that makes Luka not the best choice for Boothill unless Boothill e1 despite the better buff and more physical break).
This is pretty good too ngl. I prefer this over def reduction
Only problem is Tutorial LC doesn’t work as well on him anymore unless you bring a def shredder along with him. As a E2 Acheron haver it’s pretty annoying since now I’ll probably wanna go for his signature now.
Yeah :/ that really is a problem. Would have been fun if they gave him both def shred + vul but that would probably be too busted.
That’s exactly what I was thinking haha. The harmony units are beyond broken, why can’t the debuffers be too?
I cant believe. WE DID get leaks today
I'm sorry but why does his trace gives attack when thats only useful in E2? That looks... stupid.
he used to heal based on atk. They forgor.
RIP healer JQ
I kinda wanted him to be a healer even if it's just march 7th level of healing but oh well
Correct me if i'm wrong, but during his ult he can apply debuffs on enemies during THEIR turn? Isn't it like a crazy stacks gain for Acheron?
its crazy i am sure if that allows you to ult one more time than you are doing now acheron performance will jump by thousand fold
DOT being locked behind E2 is just straight up stupid , it's really annoying
I've had a very mixed reaction but decided, there's several weeks before his release and more than enough to time for them to put the DoT into his base kit (copium). It's so odd that his Ult gives Ult Res Pen but then make him a DoT teammate at E2. It'd make more sense for his Ult to just give general Res Pen. If they do move his DoT to base kit and if they do make his Ult general Res Pen, he would just literally push Ruan Mei out of the DoT team setup. Hmm...
Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't him pushing Ruan Mei out of the DoT team setup allow you to run DoT team + Break Team at the same time (such as one for each side of the same MoC floor) without fighting over which team gets Ruan Mei?
That possibility didn't even cross my mind because I've been preoccupied while consuming leaks. That's actually a really big perk for DoT and Break investors.
similar to how jiaoqui will free up my silver wolf instead of having her with Acheron, since my ratio and mono-quantum teams enjoy SW.
He needs a buff to be more interesting. Seriously, they removed the (yet small) heal and put DoT behind E2...
Jiaoqiu having no healing and the DoT locked behind E2 makes his kit just a debuffer and IMO more boring, tbh. I think a limited character with reduced sustain for a careful sustain-damage trade off would be very interesting. Both if you want half a sustain but high damage or 1.5 sustains for a very comfotable fight that doesn't go double sustain. Locking the DoT behind E2 is just anti-synergistic with DoT teams. Black Swan and the 4pc Prisoner set really want three DoTs on the enemy, which is currently why Kafka's sig is so valueable for that team.
Damn no def down means no energy from Tutorial.. sucks. They should've kept both def down and vulnerability.
So basically e0 to work with Acheron and e2 to work with Kafka/ DoT team.. well guess my Sampo won't have a new friend
Oh, he's not a def shredder, he does vuln ups now like Gui's firekiss. That's very strong. As I expected, he's also a bit of a Burn DPS although it doesn't seem like it's treated the same as a DoT? Maybe, need confirmation on that. EDIT: LMAO, it's considered a DoT with E2. Nvm. He only has a 100 energy cost but he needs the field to have Black Swan's auto application, increase ultimate damage, and make enemies take a debuff when taking action. That means he needs a def shredder partner if you want to use Tutorial on him. He's not a pure support though, which is probably gonna be a major disappointment for some people.
No idea how much his kit changed from the preliminary kit but anyways we pulling 🎉
I am so conflicted… idk the kit feels very… lacklustre? I hope he gets buffs
Yeah same. For E0S1 Acheron he seems like an upgrade, but for E2S1 Acheron idk. I guess I was just expecting more for our first limited debuffer since SW. thought he’d be closer to the broken Harmony characters and this kit doesn’t really scream that.
I actually just read march’s kit and it’s kinda sad that her kit is much more unique and fun than his. You would think a limited debuffer would be more… universal and unique. I was hoping something along the lines of debuffer and harmony too or debuffer + slight healing.
I also read Yunli's kit as well she is just a Clara+ which is meh. I hope they fix the character's flaws in the beta.
so...uh..can i replace pela with him in ratio\\aven\\robin team?
E0S1 Jiaoqiu is a bit better than S5 Pearls Pela for Ratio at the moment, assuming S1 Ratio. E0S0 is up for debate.
You can, but I’m not sure it’s worth it if it’s purely for Ratio. He gives 35% vulnerability, which is roughly equal to Pela’s ultimate in terms of damage increase, then I believe only has 2 debuffs if you don’t use Pearls, but he needs mucho EHR so you might want an EHR LC instead.
On a Ratio team he probably doesn't need to cap out of the EHR requirement. His own personal damage is pretty lackluster until E2 (where he begins to dish out 300k+ DoTs lol) and his base hit rate for his debuffs is already high.
So, how many debuffs can Jiaoqiu inflict for Ratio? It looks like only two, with one requiring his light cone? Is the dmg received multiplicative? How does it compare to it having been DEF down instead? I guess 2 isn’t *bad*, Pela could only do three with Pearls plus skill, though needing a limited cone for more is eh. I doubt his field counts as a debuff either, will probably read as a buff on the character like Hanya’s Burden. His stacks seem to evaporate fast though and take a while to stack? Also, what set is even supposed to use, he doesn’t inflict DOTs without eidolons, so Prisoner seems a wash and I don’t think he does damage, so no Pioneer. I’m a little hmm right now, but I *will* try to keep an open mind.
Kinda sad he only has one type of debuff "Ashen Roast". This means he is not amazing with Ratio with is what i was hoping, Ratio love multiple debuffs rather than a big one. Wish his ult or talent was another debuff rather than the same. About numbers, some think is weak, but we didnt saw him in action and this is V1, ill wait for at least V3 before trowing stones
Same - I was going to replace Silver Wolf in my Ratio team with Jiaoqiu, so this hurts a little. Maybe we can cope for extra debuffs on future updates to his kit over the beta? /delulu
One of his traces inflicts EHR debuff on enemies, so it's actually 2.
The ult vulnerability might be counted separately, also you could use resolution or signature lc for an extra one.
I knew he was gonna have burn in his kit but I should have KNOWN they were gonna Eidolon lock it... I'm happy but so pissed too. I'm praying they move it to his E1 or base kit but if I need to go all in for it I will so help me god
the healing is gone
Where the hell did the healing go
Am i reading it wrong or does his E1 more than doubles the damage taken that he can apply? No way is this dude launching with 90ish% damage taken debuff 💀. Getting another copy of him is straight up stacking 2 Jiaoqiu on top of eachother lol.
E1 says "Damage dealt" = Dmg bonus, it's not Vuln like his Talent. The most important thing about E1 is faster stack, i think.
Soo... Acheron support and not much else? Seems like E2 needed for Kafka. And no heal. Huh.
The ash debuff is a vuln so you could use it to increase break damage i guess, tho you dont use that ult damage increase that much.
It's so over (i'm exaggerating lol) Where did the healing go 😭 And why is dot behind E2 😭
No way we need E2 for him to work in dot
New acheron support just dropped
I'll make this easy for Hoyoverse: See his trace, Hearth Kindle? See his Eidolon 2 From Savor Comes Suffer? Swap their effects and rebalance. And you'll get plenty of people on the banner for a third DoT DPS since Ruan Mei is taken by Break now.
Is he still ache BiS?
Yes that's his intended job
E2 basically teases the true limited fire DoT unit T-T
Reread that and... litteraly half of his kit is on eidolons plus LC. Litteraly either E2S1 him, maybe E1S1 is enought depending the usage or skip in current state. Is it the first full non F2P character of HSR?
wonder what relics we'll use on him 🤔
2pc hacker and whatever else you have that gives EHR and speed subs probably.
I wonder what will be the interaction between Trend of the Universal Market and Jiaqiou's Ult enemy turn debuff. I wonder if both debuff from him and Trend will independently count as 1 or all of it counts as only 1 (assuming enemy hits character with Trend) per enemy turn. I personally it would be the latter for balancing reasons but it would be insane for Acheron if it is actually the former
Only as 1 since its limited to 1 stack per turn.
Dim said on Twitter that his E2 is not based on stacks. It does 300% Fire DoT per turn so I don't think the E2 is going to make that much of a difference for DoT teams
The only reason they changed the def down to vulnerability instead is because they want to sell his LC and a lot less people will buy it given that tutorial exists. I mean of course some newer players don't have it but for those that do that would've been an insane advantage. That E2 at first glance is crazy, can't believe Hoyo might actually succeed at selling me a dot unit for once. Unless they change their minds and swap E2 for a higher eidolon. E1 is pretty damn good stopping point tho Talking about his base kit they should make it so that the field of his ultimate is created with his technique imo.
E2 is more likely to be partly implemented in e0 tbh
mixed on the kit, its not bad or weak by any means but just kinda....boring. he applies vulnerability and ult boost but thats really it. the healing wouldve been nice for some potential team variety even if it was low but he lost that and the only other mechanic he has is a dot at e2. yunli seems more interesting despite her invalidating clara. still pulling but hoping for some reworks
Where'd his heal go? 😔
Can someone explain this to me, I have trouble understanding kits
He applies debuffs really often. Every attack from him can apply debuffs. While his ult is active, enemies are inflicted with a debuff when ever they come on field and whenever they take action (though that’s at a lower chance). The debuff increases damage the enemies take
Thanks for the explanation, I hope your pillow is cold this summer
Thank you, I've been going cross-eyed trying to understand the big picture.
So I don’t have Acheron but I still really like Jiaoqiu. Ima pull for him regardless because fuck the meta, but is he good with anyone else?
I'm sure he'll be good with Ratio since he needs 3 debuffs to ensure his FUA (although you'd need another debuffer since I believe he only applies two debuffs). But honestly I could see Jiaoqiu working with any DPS since vuln makes big numbers get even bigger lol
JQ could possibly give 3 debuffs at E0: - Ashen Roast - Sig LC - Pyre Cleanse (EHR decrease trace) Then his Eidolons could make him dish out more debuffs, but gotta wait to see how they implement it in beta.
His kit seems fairly universal, so really any team in place of another support like Pela. Can be played SP-positive since his talent lets all his attacks give stacks of Roast the Ash. You could use him in hypercarry comps (DHIL/Sparkle/JQ/sustain, for example). E2 is when he could be used in a DoT team. Teams like JQ/Kafka/BS/sustain or BS/JQ/support/sustain or Kafka/JQ/support/sustain would be viable.